BB trivia

[HistoricalDavid]

What could be done with modern metallurgy? Longer barrels?

[RustyBattleship]

Dick, i have no problems with what you're saying, i was merely commenting on the fact that many posters at this site have gone to GREAT LENGTHS to cast the Mk7 16" and Iowas as innaccurate, obsolete junk.

Personally, i think said individuals are on crack, but i digress...

Snipe: There's a lot of people on forums of all kinds who's only knowledge on the subject is what they have read. Not that reading isn't a good way of learning, it's an excellent start. But you have to read more than one source. Then, if you can, head for the recruiting office to sign up and have the Master Chief set you straight.

Here's an idea. Set up a thread to take a poll to find out how many of those nay sayers have ever even SEEN a 16"/50? How many have seen one fire? Remind them to take a close look at my avatar. That's yours truly during one of New Jersey's sea trials (that included gunnery practice as well).

[RustyBattleship]

What could be done with modern metallurgy? Longer barrels?

Sometimes modern technology costs much more than what percentage of improvement you gain. Remember, the Edsel was supposed to be the top of modern automotive technology at its time.

Really, the only thing that I know of at this time to improve a 16-inch gun barrel is to have the liner made out of Tungsten Carbide so it will last 5 to 10 times as long. Unfortunately, the technology to make such a huge piece of tubing made of Tungsten Carbide is not here yet and probably there will never be a call for it.

And its cost would put both Bill Gates and Donald Trump to shame.

[TopHatter]

Here's an idea. Set up a thread to take a poll to find out how many of those nay sayers have ever even SEEN a 16"/50?

Only seen a 16"/45 myself.

Fortunately I'm not a naysayer

[Bill]

I see 9 16"/50s at least once a week as i drive down I-95.

[RustyBattleship]

I see 9 16"/50s at least once a week as i drive down I-95.

Unfortunately they have nobody on board to load and fire them.

[Bill]

Unfortunately they have nobody on board to load and fire them.

I'd volunteer in a second to do so...

[HazeGrey]

The accuracy of the 16" battery was 18 miles. The rounds fired of the coast of Beirut at a bunker in Syria were fired at a range of 23 miles. The NGFS was spotted and the 3rd round spotted in a direct hit on the bunker. I remember a right 300 down 200 on the first shot, a left 100 down 100 for the second shot and fire for affect on the 3rd and subsequent rounds. Please believe Rusty when he says this is how NGFS is conducted. There are many factors that go into the Fire Control Solution, including the earths curvature. Spot 1 had a problem with staying on referance, which was corrected by placing a radar beacon at the surface radar shack at Beirut Airport. I know this because I maintained the Radar and installed the beacon at the airport. The muzzle velocity delta of 200 ft/sec can be corrected for on the MK. 13 computer. (If it is consistant, which it was). Consider the wear of the liners of each gun. I also installed the doppler radars on the turrets to measure the velocity, thus my quote in "A Glimse of Hell p. 138". Once the learning curve of knowing the particulars of each guns' velocity, the Fire Control Solution was a very valid one. Some guns did have varying velocity (turret 3) which were used during firing for affect and not for spot. Yes, there were spotters for both 16" shoots off of Beirut, contrary to public opinion. From the guy that pulled the trigger.
Thank you
Fred Ralston

[Bill]

Hmm, a most interesting post.

What's your take on the whole "Battleships are obsolete" debate?

PS: Welcome to the board, we definitely love the 'BTDT hands on' types here.

Rusty BB:

It seems to me that there are three primary areas in which the BB's 16" guns could be greatly improved besides just installing new liners(that actually have little to do with the guns themselves and without getting into guided shells).

1) State of the art ballistic ERFB/RAP/BB type projectiles. (enh. range and accuracy)
2) State of the art propellant bags (enh. range and accuracy)
3) Use of the new explosive filler developed for the SDB (AFX-757), which supposedly delivers the same explosive power in a 250lb SDB as one normally gets from a 570lb Mk82(contrary to belief, 500lb bombs do not weigh 500lbs, lol). AFX-757 also has the great added benefit of being a truly insensitive explosive filler as well. (enh. lethality and reduced vulnerability)
http://www.google.com/search?hs=KUE&...57&btnG=Search

It's a shame we'll never find out just how good a modern 16" system could perform. Damned Russians, why couldn't they have folded in 1996 instead of when they did! LOL...

PS: Fralston, who was the author of the book you named above? I might have to put it on my to buy list. Thanx!

BTW, you were mentioned here by name over a year ago by another poster. Your reputation preceeds you sir!

The Battleship Reactivation Debate Continues - Page 2 - World ...
Page 2-The Battleship Reactivation Debate Continues BATTLESHIPS FORUM. ... Fred Ralston, a fire controlman assigned to forward main plot, noticed that while ...
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sho...?t=5025&page=2 - 140k - Cached - Similar pages

[RustyBattleship]

Fralston: Good have somebody on line that knows what they are talking about by actually having "Hands On" experience.

We must have passed by each other a couple of times when you installed the Velocimeters on top of the turrets. Since I was so adamant about having no holes in "MY" armor for even frag to rattle through, one of my co-workers came running back into the office complaining that somebody is drilling holes through the Class B armor of the turret tops.

Well, this was after commissioning and as usual "Tiger Teams" invade the ship (any class of ship) and start sticking things on we know nothing about. There is no concern for weight and moment, no concern to what critical space they may be drawing power or air conditioning from (as the Port side Spook Room on 02 level robbed power and A/C from CEC on the Stbd side) and no concern to the final configuration of the ship (such as GPS antennas stuck on all over the superstructure right next to high voltage 35-foot transmission whip antennas).

I raised hell about that Spook room item during our shipcheck of Missouri. NAVSEA finally had to concede they were drawing too much of both from CEC and then cut us in on what was needed. Yes, we had to run in extra electrical support and install one more fan-coil unit for air conditioning. You can't imagine how happy the Intelligence Officer in charge of that space was to FINALLY get a compartment specifically designed for his purpose and within all the necessary security specifications.

[Bill]

I exchanged a few PMs with Mr. Ralston, and he seems like a pretty damned squared away sailor.

I'm with you Rusty, glad to have him aboard.

[Ytlas]

Good have somebody on line that knows what they are talking about by actually having "Hands On" experience.

Hey Dickie, did you phrase that correctly? First it was something like "How many people have actually seen a 16"/50" or whatever and now "Hands On." If there was a Dipsticks and Wannabe's BB Board, maybe I'd join in more often......

[RustyBattleship]

Hey Dickie, did you phrase that correctly? First it was something like "How many people have actually seen a 16"/50" or whatever and now "Hands On." If there was a Dipsticks and Wannabe's BB Board, maybe I'd join in more often......

My compliment was strictly generic referring to all threads on this board. You are included of course.

But I should have worded my original question in more detail such as "Has anyone actually seen a 16"/50 fire?" Or even crawled inside one of the turrets to marvel at the pre-transistor age of engineering and machining when the closest thing an engineer had for a desk-top computer was a slide rule and a Marchant mechancial/electrical calculator.

[Ytlas]

I was thinking more on the line of "Another individual on the board with Hands On experience" rather than "Somebody online...." As for the 16" barrels, I spent some time visiting my friends in the storage yard while they were assisting X26 cutting up the barrels and you really can't appreciate the size of them until you look at one up close.

[Bill]

So where are Shipwreck and Gun Grape to spew their total trash about the Iowas 16" guns being inaccurate, especially when utilized against Beirut?

Here's your big chance kids...