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  • USS Missouri (BB-63)FAQ

    http://www.factplace.com/mightymo.htm#Ship
    "Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

  • #2
    I have one good book on "Mo" it was written after she returned to the states following Japans surrender and operation magic carpet ride. ;)
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

    Comment


    • #3
      I have always wished that the surrender had taken place aboard the USS Enterprise.
      "Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by sparten
        I have always wished that the surrender had taken place aboard the USS Enterprise.
        Given the Sea Battles that raged through out the Pacific and the Atlantic I think the Allies chose the battleships as an example of the force that could still be brought to bear against the Japanese if they chose not to accept the terms. Yes the Atomic bomb was a nightmare for them and caused a great loss of life but to the Americans they still had a naval base called Pearl and the thousands of sailors that died there due to their aggression burning in their minds. It was not a chance coincidence that USS Missouri was given to Pearl. She is there to mark the close of WWII as the USS Arizona marked the opening of WWII. IMO the reason none of the major US carriers of the third fleet were in Tokyo Bay was a safety net just in case the Japanese did not honor the formal surrender the carriers would not be in any danger and a majority of their planes were flying in formation overhead of the Bay.

        The ships present were:

        Battleships (BB)

        USS Colorado (BB-45) USS Mississippi (BB-41)
        HMS Duke of York (17) USS Missouri (BB-63)
        USS Idaho (BB-42) USS New Mexico (BB-40)
        USS Iowa (BB-61) USS South Dakota (BB-57)
        HMS King George V (41) USS West Virginia (BB-48)

        Small Aircraft Carriers (CVL)

        USS Bataan (CVL-29) USS Cowpens (CVL-25)

        Escort Carriers (CVE)

        HMS Ruler (D.72) HMS Speaker (D.90)
        Salamaua

        Heavy Cruisers (CA)

        USS Boston (CA-69) USS St. Paul (CA-73)
        USS Chicago (CA-136) HMAS Shropshire (96)
        USS Quincy (CA-71)

        Light Cruisers (CL)

        USS Detroit (CL-8) USS Pasadena (CL-65)
        HMNZS Gambia (48) USS San Diego (CL-53)
        HMAS Hobart (I.63) USS San Juan (CL-54)
        HMS Newfoundland (59) USS Springfield (CL-66)
        USS Oakland (CL-95) USS Wilkes-Barre (CL-103)

        Destroyers (DD)

        USS Ault (DD-698) USS Mayo (DD-422)
        USS Benham (DD-796) HMAS Napier (G.97)
        USS Blue (DD-744) HMAS Nizam (G.38)
        USS Buchanon (DD-484) USS Nicholas (DD-449)
        USS Caperton (DD-650) USS Perkins (DD-877)
        USS Charles F. Hughes (DD-428)# HMS Quality (G.62)
        USS Clarence K. Bronson (DD-668) USS Robert K. Huntington (DD-781)
        USS Cogswell (DD-651) USS Southerland (DD-743)
        USS Colahan (DD-658) USS Stockham (DD-683)
        USS Cotten (DD-669) USS Taylor (DD-468)
        USS Cushing (DD-797) HMS Teazer (R.23)
        USS De Haven (DD-727) HMS Tenacious (R.45)
        USS Dortch (DD-670) HMS Terpsichore (R.33)
        USS Frank Knox (DD-742) USS Twining (DD-540)
        USS Gatling (DD-671) USS Uhlmann (DD-687)
        USS Halsey Powell (DD-686) USS Wadleigh (DD-689)
        USS Healy (DD-672) HMS Wager (R.98)
        USS Hilary P. Jones (DD-427) USS Wallace L. Lind (DD-703)
        USS Ingersoll (DD-652) HMAS Warramunga (I.44)
        USS Kalk (DD-611) USS Wedderburn (DD-684)
        USS Knapp (DD-653) HMS Whelp (R.37)
        USS Lansdowne (DD-468) HMS Wizard (R.72)
        USS Lardner (DD-487) USS Wren (DD-568)
        USS Madison (DD-425) USS Yarnell (DD-541)

        Destroyer Escorts (DE)

        USS Goss (DE-444) USS Ulvert M. Moore (DE-442)
        USS Kendall C. Campbell (DE-443) USS Waterman (DE-740)
        USS Lyman (DE-302) USS Weaver (DE-741)
        USS Major (DE-796) USS William Seiverling (DE-441)
        USS Roberts (DE-749)

        Frigates

        HMS Derg (K.257) HMAS Gascoyne (K.354)
        HMS Woodcock (U-90)#

        Sloops

        HMS Crane (U.23) HMS Whimbrel (U.29)

        Light Mine layer (DM)

        USS Gwin (DM-33) USS Thomas E. Fraser (DM-24)

        Mine Sweeper, High Speed (DMS)

        USS Ellyson (DMS-19) USS Hopkins (DMS-13)
        USS Fitch (DMS-25) USS Jeffers (DMS-27)
        USS Gherardi (DMS-30) USS Macomb (DMS-23)
        USS Hambleton (DMS-20)

        Submarines (SS)

        USS Archerfish (SS-311) USS Pilotfish (SS-386)
        USS Cavalla (SS-244) USS Razorback (SS-394)
        USS Gato (SS-212) USS Runner (SS-476)
        USS Haddo (SS-255) USS Sea Cat (SS-399)
        USS Hake (SS-256) USS Segundo (SS-398)
        USS Muskallunge (SS-262) USS Tigrone (SS-419)

        Submarine Chasers (PC)
        *Numbered ships given names in 1956.

        PC-466 [USS Carmil]* PCE(R)-849 [USS Somersworth]*
        PCE-877 [USS Havre]* PCE(R)-850 [USS Fairview]*
        PCE(R)-848

        Motor Gunboat (PGM)

        PGM-16 PGM-32
        PGM-26

        Minesweeper (AM)

        HMAS Ballarat (K.34) USS Pochard (AM-375)
        HMAS Cessnock (J.175) USS Revenge (AM-110)
        HMAS Ipswich (J.186) USS Token (AM-126)
        USS Pheasant (AM-61) USS Tumult (AM-127)
        HMAS Pirie (J.189)

        Motor Mine Sweeper (YMS)
        *Numbered ships named and reclassified in 1947

        YMS-177 YMS-390
        YMS-268 YMS-415
        YMS-276 YMS-426
        YMS-343 YMS-441 [USS Pelican (AMS-32)]*
        YMS-362 [USS Hawk (AMS-17)]* YMS-461 [USS Swallow (AMS-36)]*
        YMS-371 [USS Hornbill (AMS-19)]* YMS-467

        Auxiliary Mine Layer (ACM)

        USS Picket (ACM-8)

        Amphibious Force Flagship (AGC)

        USS Ancon (AGC-4) USS Teton (AGC-14)
        USS Mount Olympus (AGC-8)

        High Speed Transport (APD)

        USS Barr (APD-39) USS Pavlic (APD-70)
        USS Burke (APD-65) USS Reeves (APD-52)
        USS Gosselin APD-126) USS Runels (APD-85)
        USS Hollis APD-86) USS Sims (APD-50)
        USS Horace A. Bass APD-124) USS Wantuck (APD-125)
        USS John Q. Roberts(APD-94) USS William M. Pattison (APD-104)

        Tank Landing Ship (LST)
        *Numbered ships named in 1955.
        LST-567 LST-789
        LST-648 LST-846 [USS Jennings County]*
        LST-717 LST-1083 [USS Plumas County]*
        LST-718 LST-1139

        Landing Ship, Dock (LSD)

        USS Catamount (LSD-17) USS Shadwell (LSD-15)

        Landing Craft, Infantry (LCI)

        LCI(L)-438 LCI(L)-469
        LCI(L)-441 LCI(L)-726
        LCI(L)-450 LCI(L)-752
        LCI(L)-457 LCI(L)-798
        LCI(L)-458

        Medium Landing Ship (LSM)

        LSM-13 LSM-290
        LSM-15 LSM-362
        LSM-71 LSM-368
        LSM-101 LSM-371
        LSM-208 LSM-419
        LSM-252 LSM-488
        LSM-284

        Landing Ship, Vehicle (LSV)

        USS Monitor (LSV-5) USS Ozark (LSV-2)

        Attack Transport (APA)

        USS Bosque (APA-135) USS Highlands (APA-119)
        USS Botetourt (APA-136) USS Lavaca (APA 180)
        USS Briscoe (APA-65) USS Lenawee (APA-195)
        USS Cecil (APA-96) USS Mellette (APA-156)
        USS Clearfield (APA-142) USS Missoula (APA-211)
        USS Cullman (APA-78) USS Rutland (APA-192)
        USS Darke (APA-159) USS St. Mary's (APA-126)
        USS Dauphin (APA-97) USS Sherburne (APA-205)
        USS Deuel (APA-160) USS Sheridan (APA-51)
        USS Dickens (APA-161) USS Talladega (APA-208)
        USS Hansford (APA-106)

        Transport (AP)

        USS General Sturgis (AP-137)

        Attack Cargo Ship (AKA)

        USS Libra (AKA-12) USS Todd (AKA-71)
        USS Medea (AKA-31) USS Tolland (AKA-64)
        USS Pamina (AKA-34) USS Whiteside (AKA-90)
        USS Sirona (AKA-43) USS Yancy (AKA-93)
        USS Skagit (AKA-105)

        Cargo Ship (AK)

        USS Lesuth (AK-125)

        Civilian Cargo Ships

        St. Lawrence Victory (US) Winthrop Victory (US)

        Stores Issue Ship (AKS)

        USS Cybele (AKS-10)

        Repair Ship (AR)

        USS Delta (AR-9)

        Landing Craft Repair Ship (ARL)

        USS Patroclus (ARL-19)

        Oiler (AO)

        USS Chiwawa (AO-68) USS Niobrara (AO-72)
        USS Mascoma (AO-83) USS Tamalpais (AO-96)
        USS Neches (AO-47)

        Civilian Oilers

        Carelia (British) Fort Wrangell (British)
        City of Dieppe (British) Wave King (British)
        Dingledale (British)

        Gasoline Tanker (AOG)

        USS Genesee (AOG-8)

        Destroyer Tender (AD)

        USS Piedmont (AD-17)

        Hospital Ship (AH)

        USS Benevolence (AH-13) HMHS Tjitjalengka (Dutch)
        Marigold (U.S. Army)

        Seaplane Tender (AV)

        USS Cumberland Sound (AV-17) USS Hamlin (AV-15)

        Small Seaplane Tender (AVP)

        USS Gardiners Bay (AVP-39) USS Suisun (AVP-53)
        USS Mackinac (AVP-13)

        Submarine Tender (AS)

        USS Proteus (AS-19)

        Submarine Rescue Ship (ASR)

        USS Greenlet (ASR-10)

        Fleet Ocean Tug (ATF)

        USS Moctobi (ATF-105) USS Wenatchee (ATF-118)

        Auxiliary Ocean Tug (ATA)
        *Numbered ship named in 1955

        ATA-205 [USS Sciota]*



        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        NOTE: #USS Hughes was listed in the report, but according to the ship's deck log was crossing the international date line enroute to Japan. USS Charles F. Hughes was sweeping mines. At 10:27 the ship passed Ashika Light. At 10:30 the war ended. At 10:44 the ship made preparations for entering the port and anchored at 12:21 in Tokyo Bay.

        #USS Woodcock (ATO-145) is listed in the report, but that ship spent World War II in Central and South American waters. The ship named Woodcock that was present was HMS Woodcock, a frigate.
        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Dreadnought
          IMO the reason none of the major US carriers of the third fleet were in Tokyo Bay was a safety net just in case the Japanese did not honor the formal surrender the carriers would not be in any danger and a majority of their planes were flying in formation overhead of the Bay.

          .
          When we reactivated the Missouri in the 1980s here in Long Beach, we found a lot of memorable items still on board such as a copy of the ship's deck log of 2 September 1945. I include a copy of that as the last appendix in a book I have written on the history of the Long Beach Naval Shipyard.

          Also found, or provided anonimously, was some reports of the Missouri's transit to Tokyo for the surrender ceremonies. Though Japan officially announced it would agree to an unconditional surrender, some pilots of the Japanese Air Force weren't so willing to give up until the signatures were on the paper.

          Therefore several planes attacked the fleet of the "conquering country" and over thirty airplanes were shot down. When they first began their strafing runs, Admiral Halsey was asked what should be done about them since Japan has agreed to surrender. His answer was, "Shoot them down. But in a friendly sort of way."

          I donated the copies I had of those reports and photos to the Missouri museum curator in Hawaii. So if you want copies made of that statement, you have to write to him.
          Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by RustyBattleship
            When we reactivated the Missouri in the 1980s here in Long Beach, we found a lot of memorable items still on board such as a copy of the ship's deck log of 2 September 1945. I include a copy of that as the last appendix in a book I have written on the history of the Long Beach Naval Shipyard.

            Also found, or provided anonimously, was some reports of the Missouri's transit to Tokyo for the surrender ceremonies. Though Japan officially announced it would agree to an unconditional surrender, some pilots of the Japanese Air Force weren't so willing to give up until the signatures were on the paper.

            Therefore several planes attacked the fleet of the "conquering country" and over thirty airplanes were shot down. When they first began their strafing runs, Admiral Halsey was asked what should be done about them since Japan has agreed to surrender. His answer was, "Shoot them down. But in a friendly sort of way."

            I donated the copies I had of those reports and photos to the Missouri museum curator in Hawaii. So if you want copies made of that statement, you have to write to him.
            Mr Landgraff to say the very least its a genuine pleasure having you here and welcome. I look forward to many discussions with you about one of our favorite topics

            I would love to get a copy just to read no matter how short the log is.

            "Shoot them down. But in a friendly sort of way."

            The bull did have candor didnt he...lol
            Last edited by Dreadnought; 13 Jan 06,, 15:35.
            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

            Comment


            • #7
              Mr Landgraff, you have been aboard the majority of the Iowas several times while they were in mothballs and just prior to reactivation in the 80's and afterwards could you please comment on Iowa's (BB61) propulsion plant current status?

              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Dreadnought
                Mr Landgraff, you have been aboard the majority of the Iowas several times while they were in mothballs and just prior to reactivation in the 80's and afterwards could you please comment on Iowa's (BB61) propulsion plant current status?

                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                As the Configuration Manager of all structural and armor modifications for the class, I inspected all four of the ships and rode sea trials on two of them.

                The main propulsion plants are in excellent shape and in mothball status have been preserved very well. When we reactivated Missouri back in the 80's, we opened up the reduction gear casings to inspect the gears themselves. Reps from the company that made them were on board for the inspection and reported that the gear boxes looked brand new.

                We had a major problem with Wisconsin after first being reactivated by a private shipyard where she came back from sea trial with only one propeller working. A few weeks in a Navy Yard in Norfolk solved that problem. Also, Wisky's rudders were on the loose side. To my knowledge she was the only one of the four Iowas to practice "Close the Barn Door" stops. That would be to turn the rudders over to local control (aft rudder control room) and turn them in toward each other as the main screws are reversed. A normal "crash back" stop (only reversing the screws) from full ahead (200 rpm at 30+ knots) takes a little over a mile to bring an Iowa to a stop. A "Barn Door" stop only takes about 600 feet or about 2/3 the length of the ship. Anything not tied down winds up on the deck. But it puts a hell of a load on the rudder shafts.

                So when I had to go back to Norfolk to do an inspection of Wisky I had to carry a bundle of rudder drawings with me as well so Norfolk could figure out a way to tighten them up (which they did).

                The only other problem we had was because of an incident in San Diego on an Aircraft Carrier where some idiot deliberately dropped a large bolt into the reduction gear to prevent deployment. Therefore, on the BBs, we had to mount padlocked access covers over any other cover that could get into a moving part of the steam turbines and reduction gears. As Murphy's Law would have it, the tack weld of a nut broke loose and fell into the main bull gear on Missouri as she was heading for the middle east to join Wisconsin in Desert Storm. The two commanders that were the MPA's opened up the casing and found that one tooth on the main bull gear was broken. They welded that tooth back in and hand filed it for a perfect fit. One of those commanders, Isaah Jones, later rose to rank of Captain and was the last commanding officer of the Long Beach Naval Station. He then transferred to San Diego in charge of all overhauls of the Amphibs.

                "Jonesy", as we called him even after earning his eagle, was on the pre-commissioning crew of both New Jersey and Missouri. Prior to that he had worked as a ship superintendent at LBNSY. So we knew each other personally and even after I retired in 1994 we still would get together at the Officer's club once in a while for a drink.

                Once a prejudice person off to one side mentioned something about how it was possible for a "black man" to attain the rank of Captain. I corrected him by saying Jonesy and I were the same color, "Battleship Grey".
                Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Mr Landgraff were you aboard USS Iowa after the turrent accident? If so could you state the current condition of her propulsion systems? Posts on the battlship threads suggest that she is in very poor condition propulsion wise. I may be wrong but I fail to see how they could let the flagship of the Iowa class deteriorate into such a poor state when her sister ships look so well kept. I do know for a fact that her sister New Jersey is in very good shape and is very clean to match from several visits.
                  Last edited by Dreadnought; 13 Jan 06,, 22:30.
                  Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dreadnought
                    Mr Landgraff were you aboard USS Iowa after the turrent accident? If so could you state the current condition of her propulsion systems? Posts on the battlship threads suggest that she is in very poor condition propulsion wise. I may be wrong but I fail to see how they could let the flagship of the Iowa class deteriorate into such a poor state when her sister ships look so well kept. I do know for a fact that her sister New Jersey is in very good shape and is very clean to match from several visits.
                    Hoo Boy, does this subject ever give me the creeps. First of all, no I was not on any of the inspection teams after the incident. HOWEVER, as the structural project leader in the planning yard (Long Beach) I was ordered to come up with a repair procedure within a week after receiving the list of damaged equipment.

                    I put the repair procedure on our Chief Engineer's desk in 15 minutes.

                    Now comes the creepy part. About two years before (while Wisconsin was still undergoing reactivation) we were tasked with a drill called "Operation Proud Scout". We were to assume that the Iowa had an explosion in Turret II and we had 24 hours to come up with an outline of a procedure to remove a Turret from Wisconsin and put it on Iowa.

                    Yes, I said Turret II.

                    Now for another chill up the spine. A year or so before that, while our configuration manager's office was still intact, I received a phone call from NAVSEA to investigate a problem with the Replenishment-at-Sea (RAS) tripod on top of Turret II of the Iowa. That tripod not only brought over ship's stores from a supply ship, it was also the main receiving structure for ammunition.

                    So, I called the ship (It was in Norfolk at the time) and the officer I spoke to said that the only problem they had with the tripod was human error where a boatswain's mate almost lost a finger. He thought I was calling for a more serious problem.

                    Hope all of you are sitting down.

                    He had at least two men zapped by high voltage electricity from the muzzle of the CENTER BARREL of turret II while they were standing on top of turret I for maintenance, painting, rifling inspection, etc. This happened while their Discone/Discage antenna up on the bow of the ship was activated.

                    I naturally passed this on to our electronics configuration mangager (Al Perry who sat 2 desks away from mine) who literally went airborne out of his chair. All of us in the office went ballistic laying out scale drawings of the ship and measuring the distance from the antenna to the end of the muzzle. Al was reviewing the frequencies that antenna should be putting out. He cocked his head to one side and said, "Well, if that antenna goes slightly out of sync, we could have a different wave length of up to 66 to 68 feet".

                    We measured the distance again and sure enough, it had a multiplier factor of about 66 feet (depending on how accurate our scales were in our shaking fingers). Mine was shaking the most. Let's see if you can figure out why.

                    The 50 caliber designation of the gun is the number of times the gun barrel length is to the diameter of the bore. 16" X 50 = ? and divided by 12 =?

                    Uh huh. When that Discone/Discage antenna was out of sync and turret II was facing directly forward, the center barrel became a secondary antenna.

                    The New Jersey was in Long Beach at the time and Al hot-footed out there to see if they had similar problems. Fortunately they had not and were always cautious about keeping that antenna in sync.

                    Though I forwarded the possibility of electrical discharge in the barrel of Iowa back to NAVSEA and Norfolk at the time f the incident, thorough study said it probably was not the cause because the radiation of the barrel only happened while the antenna was activated (which it wasn't at the time of the incident). Also, even if the antenna was activated, traversing the turret and turning the barrel away would cause it to lose its charge (I guess so, I'm a sledge hammer engineer, not a sparktrician). Also, if the barrel did retain a static charge, the feeding of the first projectile (that were inert rounds called Blind Loaded Plugs or dummies) would have grounded out the barrel to the loading tray and dissipate the electrical charge.

                    Yes, sometimes I still get the shakes over that.
                    Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dreadnought
                      Mr Landgraff were you aboard USS Iowa after the turrent accident? If so could you state the current condition of her propulsion systems? Posts on the battlship threads suggest that she is in very poor condition propulsion wise. I may be wrong but I fail to see how they could let the flagship of the Iowa class deteriorate into such a poor state when her sister ships look so well kept. I do know for a fact that her sister New Jersey is in very good shape and is very clean to match from several visits.
                      Now to answer your second question. I have not inspected the Iowa after inactivation. However NAVSEA directive Chapter 050 gives specific instructions of how to seal up a ship. I suspect the main propulsion systems are properly sealed and in excellent shape.

                      However, there was a concern that when she was sent to Benicia, California (the graveyard of ships) that cathodic protection of the hull and dehumidification of the interior was not done. Through the efforts of the United States Naval Fire Support Association (USNFSA), the Iowa Class Preservation Society (ICPA), the Iowa veterans association and myself (I called my services Dreadnaught Consulting then) making phone calls to the INACTSHIP facility in Bremerton the protective systems were installed.

                      Hull protection is standard inact system of hanging Impressed Current Cathodic Protection (ICCP) devices over the side. Interior dehumidification (DH) is done with nine big DH machines that work on 440 volts each. We received confirmation from Bremerton that extra cables had been run out to the ship and the DH systems were fully operative again.

                      The second worst part is that the turret II repairs were never finished. The bolts in the top armor panel in the turret had already been loosened and they were ready to take it off so they could replace the hydraulic pumps, electric motors, vent ducts and vent fans to reactivate the turret. The range finder had already been repaired (it can be removed through one of the "ears" on the side of the turret) and all the motors and pumps were sitting on the pier ready for installation. However, the money was diverted to the Contras and repairs were never completed. As I understand it, the Secretary of Defense was ordered to find money somewhere for Contra support and he decided to take it from the Iowa turret repairs (he also "recommended" the closures of the Long Beach Naval Station and Naval Shipyard). It is also my understanding that the repair parts are still on board ship but where they would be stowed is questionable.

                      The first worst part is that to fit the Iowa under a bridge to get to Benicia is that they had to cut off the topmast and the radar foundations. The foundation for the SPS-49 radar was a seven or eight foot tall truncated cone built of 3/4 inch thick HY-80 steel (similar to Class B armor). Where the antennas or foundations are stowed is still unknown to me.

                      Also, the New Jersey is not in as good a shape as we would like. She has had an extremely bad problem with hull corrosion using the passive zinc Anodes for cathodic protection. She spent several months in our big dry dock have pits ground out, welded and ground flush. Hundreds of rivets had to be replaced and the bottom third rudder plating had to be replaced. Yeah, I was the project leader on that repair job too.

                      We used New Jersey as the model for the in-place ICCP system using platinum anodes attached to the hull of the ship as well as passive zincs inside the main intakes for the boilers and condensers. However, availability time pushed her to number 4 for installation. The other three got the ICCP installed but when it came time for New Jersey she was ordered for inactivation. When we dry docked her for inactivation, I found pitting almost as bad as before. One of the pits is the size of a tennis ball and in thick plating just aft of a trim tank intake.

                      There are several reasons why New Jersey had more corrosion problems than the other ships (excessive hull scrubbing for fuel efficiency, bad casting of zinc anodes containing iron, put out to sea for five years when designed protection system was only for three years - maximum, etc.). But I don't think I need to go into detail on those as I think I've said enough.

                      Sleep well tonight. Sometime before the middle of this century a DX destroyer may be approved for construction.

                      But don't count on it.
                      Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sir, I have read that during Missouri's intial cruise in the 1980's, lots of fuel leaked therough her fuel service lines. What was the problem there? Was it because of the new fuel they were using (i believe that they used a lighter oil than used in WWII and Korea)?
                        "Any relations in a social order will endure if there is infused into them some of that spirit of human sympathy, which qualifies life for immortality." ~ George William Russell

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          #2 bunker vs. DFM vs. age hardening of bronze

                          Originally posted by sparten
                          Sir, I have read that during Missouri's intial cruise in the 1980's, lots of fuel leaked therough her fuel service lines. What was the problem there? Was it because of the new fuel they were using (i believe that they used a lighter oil than used in WWII and Korea)?
                          All four BBs were converted over from Number 2 bunker oil to Navy Distillate (aka Diesel Fuel Marine or DFM). To do so we had to replace all the pumps for the lighter viscosity fuel, burner jets, some of the valves and some of the associated piping. At the bottom of the old fuel tanks was piping that used to run hot steam through to keep the old Bunker oil "thin" enough to be pumped, otherwise it turned to tar.

                          In a way that was an asset bunker oil formed a tar-like coating on the shell plating and helped seal the rivet seams. When the tanks were to carry DFM, however, we had to steam out all the old bunker coating and resealed the seams with Polysulfide sealant. We also cut out all the old steam piping and welded steel caps over the cut ends and I don't recall any reports of those leaking.

                          However, I was on Missouri's sea trial down in the engine spaces when the announcement came over the 1mc that there was a major fuel spill in number 2 engine room. I scrunched over to one side while the MPA was doing the low hurdles over the 19-inch high door sills of the major watertight bulkheads of "broadway".

                          It turned out that one of the old bronze valves that we left in place had succombed to age hardening (crystalizing) and a minor bump broke it off. Thank goodness to redundancy designs of warships the major fuel spill was cut off by back up valves by the time the MPA swooped through the door.

                          It is hard to determine if an old valve has age hardened. Looking at it from the outside it looks just fine. You would have to unbolt it from the piping system and send it to the metallurgical lab to inspect it for excessive crystallization. This is time consuming, expensive and we had a schedule and skimpy budget to meet in order to get those ships out on time. So some of the old bronze valves and brass piping in all of the ships were kept though some eventually showed aging problems and needed replacements or repair of some sort.

                          But this is a problem on all classes of ships, not just the Battleships. You can't use ordinary steel as it would corrode too quickly when subjected to salt water flushing, ballasting, etc. Only stainless steel would offer a better alternative but Type 316 (ordered by the Navy to replace Type 304 when subjected to salt water) stainless steel is very expensive with a very high percentage of chromium and nickel for the stainless properties. Other alloys are also needed then to retain the strength of the steel to a minimum yield of 36 thousand pounds per square inch or higher.

                          Interestingly, I was down in engine room 4 on the Iowa back in Norfolk when they had a similar piping break. But it was a water valve for flooding the 5" projectile magazine. Thank goodness because the ship's magazines were loaded. Until finding out it was just a water pipe and not fuel that could catch on fire and set off the ammo, we just stayed in place hoping we were far enough aft and far enough down for protection. When the all clear was sounded, we finished our inspection and then got out for some fresh air.
                          Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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                          • #14
                            Thank you for your imput and reply Mr. Landgraff.
                            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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                            • #15
                              Hey cRustyBattleship, you seem to know a lot about the battleships. Have you ever thought about writing a book?

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