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Shek
15 Dec 05,, 04:48
I've always wondered how WAB and other message boards influence opinions about other nations. While WAB tends not to be ultra-competitive outside of the occasional troll that butts in, I've seen some very heated, flag waving discussions on other boards that leave both parties/nationalities bitter.

So, for all non-Americans, how has WAB and/or other message boards influenced your opinions about the United States? Additionally, have you had any actual in-person experiences that confirm or counter what you've experienced on WAB?

indianguy4u
15 Dec 05,, 05:09
There are too many republican over here @ WAB to come to any conclusion. Lets hear some democrats voices :biggrin:.

Samudra
15 Dec 05,, 05:09
I have a friend who thinks every 9/11 conspiracy movie is 400% correct.
Thanks to WAB, I was able to correct him.

Enzo Ferrari
15 Dec 05,, 05:34
I have a friend who thinks every 9/11 conspiracy movie is 400% correct.
Thanks to WAB, I was able to correct him.


Same here.

Ray
15 Dec 05,, 06:08
I will be quite frank since I think I am speaking in company of friends.

Unlike the popular international opinion that American are self opiniated and feel that their country is the only country in the world and the remainder are to be tolerated since they are God's creation after all, the WAB showed me that there are many Americans who are knowledgeable, intelligent and are fully aware of the international repercussions that policies are having upon the world community. WAB also showed that the Americans are sensitive to others' feelings and basically as individuals the Americans are really wonderful chaps.

WAB also allowed me an insight into the American common man's (though mostly Republican) insight and views of American domestic problems and politics.

I am yet to meet anyone in India who is not outraged by 9/11 or any other terrorist attacks. However, the vast majority are not convinced with Iraq. though understand the compulsions of Afghanistan and whole heartedly support that.

There are, of course, the archetypical Americans too! :eek: ;) :biggrin:

Further more, the WAB opened up my vista of the common man's opinion of quite a few countries from where the posters are from, mostly Europe and a few from Down under including NZ. It is indeed a very rich experience for me. I do wish there were posters from Africa and Latin America.

My interaction with the Pakistanis, at times bellicose, has nevertheless made me understand them better and also created an empathy that I think was another wonderful experience.

Horrido
15 Dec 05,, 06:15
I saw the thread title and got panicky thinking,"Please, don't let Gio be the benchmark! Don't let Gio be the benchmark!" :eek:

Monk
15 Dec 05,, 15:57
I had american friends even before I joined this forum. Most of them are New yorkers and remarkably well educated and democrats. But I haven't found the republicans on this forum too offensive either apart from the occasional head in the sand approach. Overall it has been great. You have the same proportion of good guys and a$$holes as any other country does. :biggrin: :tongue: :biggrin: :tongue: :biggrin:

JG73
15 Dec 05,, 16:37
Offcourse my opinion about Americans has changed a bit. But I can't say if positiv or negativ. It just has changed because of interacting with each other and knowing the mentality better. And I have to determine that the American mentality is a bit different from the German's. What's positiv in a few ways though.

Monk
15 Dec 05,, 16:44
I'm rather more surprised by the Indians on this board. I hadn't thought that your mentality is that similar to the western culture. Possibly that depends on the time of british colonistation and that you guys who are posting here surely are not the poorest Indian hillbillies like we always see it in hollywood films.

Glad to oblige, but it has more to do with education and reassertion of the Hindu culture after prolonged islamic rule. Hindu culture is inherently forward thinking and liberal. However, one shouldn't read the atrocities which happen in certain villages and conclude that to be Hindu / Indian culture.
Secondly, the attitude has very little to do with wealth, even your average city residing office-going average joe Indian will largely display the same attitude as you see on this board. Hell, I am sure some of us are average office going guys like myself. ;)

THL
15 Dec 05,, 19:13
Alrighty then....As an American Democrat my own opinions of American Republicans has been changed both good and bad if that is possible.

Good: I have found over the last few months on this predominantly pachyderm board that my opinions on a lot tend to coincide with Republicans more than I previously thought (not enough to jump aboard the elephant, though). :)

Bad: On the things that I do not agree with them on - we REALLY do not agree. Unfortunately, this has occassionally extended to the point that there is not even the ability to be cordial about specific issues. :frown:

Bill
15 Dec 05,, 19:15
I love it when you talk about me miss. :)

LOL...

THL
15 Dec 05,, 19:55
I love it when you talk about me miss. :)

LOL...
Why, Sniper...I would never!
;)

dalem
15 Dec 05,, 20:57
Good: I have found over the last few months on this predominantly pachyderm board that my opinions on a lot tend to coincide with Republicans more than I previously thought (not enough to jump aboard the elephant, though). :)

Ma'am, you are so already on-board. ;)

-dale

Parihaka
15 Dec 05,, 22:29
I've always had a good opinion (with one noteable exception) of Americans I've met in NZ and there's a mate of mine who was here for about twenty years before going back to the States who I catch up with whenever I can.
Same whenever I visit the States, I always have a good time and the friendliness that everyone shows me is great.
My opinion of America as a global player has definitely improved because I understand the motivations behind it much better. We used to get invited to the odd dinner party where whenever American foreign policy got brought up everyone would sit around and go "oh yes America, awful, just awful blah blah" Nowdays I as often as not argue the case for America and the debates get pretty heated. My debating style has got a lot more aggressive as well :biggrin:
Interestingly enough we get invited to a lot more dinner parties, I even got described as an 'intelligent bit of rough' by one of the lady socialites at the last one :rolleyes:
As another aside, the first time I was in the States I was chilling out in LA for a couple of days to get over the jet lag before going on to Guatemala. I wanted some sunscreen and went into a 'Bodyshop' in I think Santa Monica. I couldn't find any so I asked the assistant behind the counter, a very attractive black girl. After I asked, she just stared at me. So I asked again and again she just looked at me. I was just about to ask again when she said "you've got the most beautiful accent I've ever heard". Been in love with the place ever since. :)

Julie
16 Dec 05,, 00:31
Alrighty then....As an American Democrat my own opinions of American Republicans has been changed both good and bad if that is possible.

Good: I have found over the last few months on this predominantly pachyderm board that my opinions on a lot tend to coincide with Republicans more than I previously thought (not enough to jump aboard the elephant, though). :)

Bad: On the things that I do not agree with them on - we REALLY do not agree. Unfortunately, this has occassionally extended to the point that there is not even the ability to be cordial about specific issues. :frown:Ditto for me as well. :)

Julie
16 Dec 05,, 00:33
I saw the thread title and got panicky thinking,"Please, don't let Gio be the benchmark! Don't let Gio be the benchmark!" :eek:I feel sorry for Gio....he is such a right-wing conservative stuck in California (a blue state) with his parents. :redface: If he ever relocated in a red state, he would definitely hit the ground running. :tongue:

Horrido
16 Dec 05,, 01:37
Gio's safe in his little Republican enclave of well-to-do suburbanites. The sad truth is, if it wasn't for San Francisco, Sacremento, and LA-proper, California would definitely be a solid RED state. It's just the left-wing metropolitan "fishbowls" that force the state the other way. Washington State is in the same situation: if it wasn't for Seattle, Tacoma, and Olympia, there'd be nary a democrat elected at the state and federal levels.

Shek
16 Dec 05,, 01:42
Gio's safe in his little Republican enclave of well-to-do suburbanites. The sad truth is, if it wasn't for San Francisco, Sacremento, and LA-proper, California would definitely be a solid RED state. It's just the left-wing metropolitan "fishbowls" that force the state the other way. Washington State is in the same situation: if it wasn't for Seattle, Tacoma, and Olympia, there'd be nary a democrat elected at the state and federal levels.

I used to live directly between Tacoma and Olympia - I didn't know I was in enemy territory :eek: Okay, just kidding, I knew :biggrin:

TopHatter
16 Dec 05,, 01:47
As another aside, the first time I was in the States I was chilling out in LA for a couple of days to get over the jet lag before going on to Guatemala. I wanted some sunscreen and went into a 'Bodyshop' in I think Santa Monica. I couldn't find any so I asked the assistant behind the counter, a very attractive black girl. After I asked, she just stared at me. So I asked again and again she just looked at me. I was just about to ask again when she said "you've got the most beautiful accent I've ever heard". Been in love with the place ever since. :)
Lucky sod :redface:


I feel sorry for Gio....he is such a right-wing conservative stuck in California (a blue state) with his parents. :redface: If he ever relocated in a red state, he would definitely hit the ground running. :tongue:
Heh heh....when talking with Gio, I have this odd tendency to call him a godless communist heathen - based solely on his home state's red bent :)
I'm not proud of it, but I do have fun :biggrin:

dalem
16 Dec 05,, 01:51
Gio's safe in his little Republican enclave of well-to-do suburbanites. The sad truth is, if it wasn't for San Francisco, Sacremento, and LA-proper, California would definitely be a solid RED state. It's just the left-wing metropolitan "fishbowls" that force the state the other way. Washington State is in the same situation: if it wasn't for Seattle, Tacoma, and Olympia, there'd be nary a democrat elected at the state and federal levels.

Same thing here in Minnesota and the Twin Cities.

-dale

Horrido
16 Dec 05,, 02:13
I used to live directly between Tacoma and Olympia - I didn't know I was in enemy territory :eek: Okay, just kidding, I knew :biggrin:

Wait...don't tell me...let me guess...Ft. Lewis!

Parihaka
16 Dec 05,, 02:32
Lucky sod
LOL, If you like, next time I'm in Florida I'll give you a crash course in Nuzilandish. Be warned however, English chicks hate the kiwi accint.

Shek
16 Dec 05,, 04:44
Wait...don't tell me...let me guess...Ft. Lewis!

I spent my nights in the utopia of DuPont and my days at Fort Lewis.

Ray
16 Dec 05,, 07:09
LOL, If you like, next time I'm in Florida I'll give you a crash course in Nuzilandish. Be warned however, English chicks hate the kiwi accint.


What's the NZ accent like? Anything like the Australians?

Couldn't understand them initially. Met a huge Australian chap and his wife kept on calling him "Tiny"! :eek:

Naturally, I couldn't help but comment that he is hardly "tiny" and said I really appreciate the Australian sense of humour!

The lady burst into peals of laughter and with a lot of difficulty in copying the English accent conveyed it was "Tony"! :redface:

However, now I have no problems understanding the Australian English as I was exposed for a long time to the Australian serial, "Neighbours" pronounced 'Naiiibers"! :biggrin:

dalem
16 Dec 05,, 07:13
I know a gal from Australia and her accent is devastatingly sexy.

I can't tell the difference between Aussies and Kiwis though.

-dale

Leader
16 Dec 05,, 07:55
I feel sorry for Gio....he is such a right-wing conservative stuck in California (a blue state) with his parents. :redface: If he ever relocated in a red state, he would definitely hit the ground running. :tongue:

Please! Gio lives in the republican section of CA. How about some sympathy for me? I live in the suburbs of BOSTON!! :eek:

Horrido
16 Dec 05,, 08:44
I spent my nights in the utopia of DuPont and my days at Fort Lewis.

What? Couldn't get into high-class Gravelly Lake, Steilacoom, or Tillicum? :tongue:

As for Parihaka and Ray's question regarding accents, the Kiwi accent is, in my opinion, the most beautiful of the English dialects. I grew up around New Zealanders and haven't been able to avoid them since. I can tell a New Zealander from an Aussie instantly, which always impresses them since everyone assumes they're from Australia. The New Zealand dialect is roughly similar to the Aussies, but where the Aussies are nasal and abrasive, the Kiwi is soft, lilting and musical. New Zealand chicks and their accents have me at their command at first word.


And now we understand why Leader is so...angry. ;)

Monk
16 Dec 05,, 13:59
A thread is started for other people to express their opinion about americans. And after the first 5 posts, it is americans talking about themselves...humpf. :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

Monk
16 Dec 05,, 14:00
After I asked, she just stared at me. So I asked again and again she just looked at me. I was just about to ask again when she said "you've got the most beautiful accent I've ever heard". Been in love with the place ever since. :)


Indeed, did you say "cheers" before leaving. ;)

Is the musical lilt of the NZ accent similar to the scottish lilt ?(which I absolutely adore).

Julie
16 Dec 05,, 14:23
A thread is started for other people to express their opinion about americans. And after the first 5 posts, it is americans talking about themselves...humpf. :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:LOL! We haven't changed a bit, have we? :tongue:


Please! Gio lives in the republican section of CA. How about some sympathy for me? I live in the suburbs of BOSTON!! What the heck you doing there? All I can say is beat 'em or join 'em. :biggrin:

Shek
16 Dec 05,, 15:06
What? Couldn't get into high-class Gravelly Lake, Steilacoom, or Tillicum? :tongue:


Well, I least I didn't live in Lakehood. It's bad when you're flipping through the channels and see a scene from "Cops" and exclaim "Hey! I know where that's at!" :redface:

Shek
16 Dec 05,, 15:07
A thread is started for other people to express their opinion about americans. And after the first 5 posts, it is americans talking about themselves...humpf. :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

It's like most threads here at WAB. Go to the global warming threads - the conversation goes from science to philosophy to science to talking smack! You'd think we're all drunk due to the randomness of the topics.

Monk
16 Dec 05,, 15:19
It's like most threads here at WAB. Go to the global warming threads - the conversation goes from science to philosophy to science to talking smack! You'd think we're all drunk due to the randomness of the topics.

Very True, but thats what makes this place fun for all concerned. ;)

dalem
16 Dec 05,, 15:29
A thread is started for other people to express their opinion about americans. And after the first 5 posts, it is americans talking about themselves...humpf. :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

Don't you know any Americans? ;) We're impatient. You goofy non-Americans aren't giving us enough answers.

Chop chop!

-dale

Parihaka
16 Dec 05,, 21:08
Horrido's pretty much nailed the difference between aussie & kiwi. Where I come from in the deep south most of the settlers were Scottish whereas the far north was the same sort of mix as Australia. The difference between Australia and NZ is the Maori language which simply cannot be spoken nasally. All the vowel sounds are subtly different too. So in the far north around Auckland the accent is most like Australia, in the far south, much quieter and 'sing song' like is the best way I can describe it.
Rays extremely funny story about his mate Tiny sums up the Aussies, here nobody but a Kiwi can hear the difference between beer, bare and bear. Or pen and pin for that matter.

So anyway you would say 'the rain in spain falls mainly on the plain'
As I'm from the deep south so mixed Scottish and Maori lilt, you would hear me say 'tha-rayn-un spayyn, fawwls maynly on-tha playn.'
but spoken quickly and softly from the back of the mouth and as if you were making up a song as you go.

When you can say 'te waka a maui e te wai pounamu o aotearoa'
as 'tay waa-car ah mau-wee eh tea why poo-nar-moo ohh oow-tay-ah-row-ah' again spoken quickly and softly from the back of the mouth and as if you were making up a song as you go, then you're pretty much home and dry.
Personally the Indian accent is one of my favourites, it's that sing song cadence that I think is really cool.
Closely followed funnily enough by the Sloan Rangers. It has a sort of dry crispness that reminds me of cold apple juice on a hot day.
Of the American ones I've got to go for the (I don't remember the region) one spoken in the Cohen brothers movie Fargo. "Oh Jeez". I just love that.

lwarmonger
17 Dec 05,, 00:28
Well, I least I didn't live in Lakehood. It's bad when you're flipping through the channels and see a scene from "Cops" and exclaim "Hey! I know where that's at!" :redface:

Hahahahaha! Tacoma myself. And yes, that is an interesting experience. People don't really understand the charm of that lovely little burgh. They certainly don't understand when I compare Tacoma to Seattle in a favorable light! :tongue:

Shek
17 Dec 05,, 00:29
Hahahahaha! Tacoma myself. And yes, that is an interesting experience. People don't really understand the charm of that lovely little burgh. They certainly don't understand when I compare Tacoma to Seattle in a favorable light! :tongue:

You weren't in the mall at Thanksgiving time when that wacko started shooting, were you?

Jay
17 Dec 05,, 01:06
I was working in Downtown Tacoma for couple months, I stayed in Dwntwn Sheraton. I heard stories that Tacoma used to be blue collar city and such stuff, but when I was there, I had a nice time.

One thing I like about WA...steak and beer on the beach...awesome!

TopHatter
17 Dec 05,, 01:51
Personally the Indian accent is one of my favourites, it's that sing song cadence that I think is really cool.
The Indian accent will forever remind me of a doctor. :redface:

Officer of Engineers
17 Dec 05,, 03:14
I guess Canadians don't count.

TopHatter
17 Dec 05,, 04:29
I guess Canadians don't count.
Except for the whole "aboot" and "eh" thing, you guys don't have accents as far I can tell. :confused:

Ray
17 Dec 05,, 05:39
The Indian accent is as different as the number of States of India.

And we have a ball making fun of each others accent when we speak in English.

Nowadays, amongst the urban elite or English educated to use a mix of Hindi or regional language with English. It is so common these days that while it was jarring before, it has almost become acceptable!

TH,

The doctor I suspect is Peter Sellers, right?

Parihaka
17 Dec 05,, 08:15
TH,

The doctor I suspect is Peter Sellers, right?
Ahhh, I'd forgotten about Peter Sellers Indian doctor :biggrin: What movie was that in? One of the Pink Panthers?
Edit: wait a minute that was the "bom tity bom tity bom tity bom tity bom tity bom tity bom bom bom" song wasn't it. Well Goodness Gracious Me.

Ray
17 Dec 05,, 09:05
It was "The Millionaress"l

He acted in this film with Sophia Loren.

It was a box office hit in India!

I enjoyed it thoroughly.

In the Pink Panther and sequels, he had the French accent as the Inspector!

Peter Sellers also did the Indian accent in another film 'The Party'.

Ray
17 Dec 05,, 09:12
GOODNESS GRACIOUS ME
Peter Sellers & Sophia Loren


Her: Oh doctor, I'm in trouble.
Him: Well, goodness gracious me.
Her: For every time a certain man
Is standing next to me.
Him: Mmm?
Her: A flush comes to my face
And my pulse begins to race,
It goes boom boody-boom boody-boom boody-boom
Boody-boom boody-boom boody-boom-boom-boom,
Him: Oh!
Her: Boom boody-boom boody-boom boody-boom
Him: Well, goodness gracious me.

Him: How often does this happen?
When did the trouble start?
You see, my stethoscope is bobbing
To the throbbing of your heart.
Her: What kind of man is he
To create this allergy?
It goes boom boody-boom boody-boom boody-boom
Boody-boom boody-boom boody-boom-boom-boom,
Him: Oh!
Her: Boom boody-boom boody-boom boody-boom
Him: Well, goodness gracious me.

Him: From New Delhi to Darjeeling
I have done my share of healing,
And I've never yet been beaten or outboxed,
I remember that with one jab
Of my needle in the Punjab
How I cleared up beriberi
And the dreaded dysentery,
But your complaint has got me really foxed.
Her: Oh.

Her: Oh doctor, touch my fingers.
Him: Well, goodness gracious me.
Her: You may be very clever
But however, can't you see,
My heart beats much too much
At a certain tender touch,
It goes boom boody-boom boody-boom boody-boom
Boody-boom boody-boom boody-boom-boom-boom,
Him: I like it!
Her: Boom boody-boom boody-boom boody-boom
Him: Well, goodness gracious me.

Him: Can I see your tongue?
Her: Aaah.
Him: Nothing the matter with it, put it away please.
Her: Maybe it's my back.
Him: Maybe it is.
Her: Shall I lie down?
Him: Yes.
Her: Ahhh...

Him: My initial diagnosis
Rules out measles and thrombosis,
Sleeping sickness and, as far as I can tell,
Influenza, inflammation,
Whooping cough and night starvation,
And you'll be so glad to hear
That both your eyeballs are so clear
That I can positively swear that you are well,
Ja-ja, ja-ja-ja-ja.

Her: Put two and two together,
Him: Four,
Her: If you have eyes to see,
The face that makes my pulses race
Is right in front of me.
Him: Oh, there is nothing I can do
For my heart is jumping too.
Both: Oh, we go boom boody-boom boody-boom boody-boom
Boody-boom boody-boom boody-boom-boom-boom,
Her: Goodness gracious,
Him: How audacious!
Her: Goodness gracious,
Him: How flirtatious!
Her: Goodness gracious,
Him: It is me.
Her: It is you?
Him: Ah, I'm sorry, it is us.
Both: Ahhh!

indianguy4u
17 Dec 05,, 10:13
How to identify a canadian from american?

I like south african accent the best, "Barry Richards" one of the favourite commentator.

Gautam
17 Dec 05,, 14:07
My opinion remains somewhat unchanged.
As a country I have always held high regard for America for all that it has achieved. As people, it is some what conflicting for myself. Most of my first cousins have been born & brought up in the States & my American friends @ University also gave me a very positive view of Americans.
But at the same time I have come across americans both @ work and pesonal life @ times who have been arrogant and at times dumb, but I should mention that this trend can be found with people from any country. I can surely say the same about us Indians.

On the whole WAB has not managed to alter my preceptions about Americans or even America.

On a personal note I would like to add that most US bashers are either motivated by media sources ( i.e. newspapers, TV news stations etc) who either have their own political agenda or by people who are just brainwashed.

P.S. When the constant American Bashing for the last 4 years hasn't been able change my mind in the UK, I doubt anything else can.

Gautam
17 Dec 05,, 14:09
How to identify a canadian from american?

I like south african accent the best, "Barry Richards" one of the favourite commentator.

I always end up pissing Canadians by asking them, are you from the States :biggrin:

Monk
17 Dec 05,, 14:11
Don't you know any Americans? ;) We're impatient. You goofy non-Americans aren't giving us enough answers.

Chop chop!

-dale


ROFL! One thing has to be said, that devastating american humour is a sure fire winner. British Humour has its own charm but the american humour is absolutely devastating. ;)

Monk
17 Dec 05,, 14:14
As far as accents go, the scottish accent is one which I like very much, then like Parihaka mentioned the Indian accents can be quite funny. But I also find the southern US accent rather interesting, it certainly has its charm particularly the texan and georgian. ;)

And Parihaka, didn't you have a Maori player in your cricket team a few years ago whose name went something like this,

Heath te-ihi-ohri-thi-rangi-Davis? ;)
And can you translate "Land of the long white clouds" in maori please. :biggrin:

indianguy4u
17 Dec 05,, 17:18
I always end up pissing Canadians by asking them, are you from the States :biggrin:
Even their accents arent much diff :biggrin:.

TopHatter
17 Dec 05,, 17:30
TH,
The doctor I suspect is Peter Sellers, right?

Actually, it's because my pediatrician was Indian :redface:

Actually, here in the United States there are many many doctors from India.
If you open up the phone book under "Physicians" you will find dozens of Indian names.
It's almost a cliché :)

Ray
17 Dec 05,, 19:03
I am not surprised that a large number of doctors in the US are of Indian origin.

I am sure you mean that Indians love to get to the inside of the things! ;)

I was about to mention "love to get to the bottom of things", but that could be misconstrued as their being the best doctors for hemorrhoids! :eek: :biggrin:

Have you ever had a proctoscopy done?

Our Second in command when I was a junior officer in the battalion used to go for this for some ailment or the other.

I had asked him if it hurts.

He said giving a most disdainful and scornful look, "It used to in the beginning. Nowadays, I look forward to it! Seem to be enjoying it actually!"

It gave meaning to the Indian and British Army adage, "Second Lts should be seen and not heard!"

THL
17 Dec 05,, 19:08
As far as accents go, the scottish accent is one which I like very much
The UK accent is the best! That accent gives me chills. But I do have to say that Duncan Macleod (Adrian Paul) did have a certain charm as well. :)

sparten
17 Dec 05,, 20:09
How it has effected my opinions of the Yanks? Well lets just say it repaired a lot of the damage from Free Republic. :rolleyes: :eek:
I have always supported what is called the American right wing POV, but lets say not liked the messengers. Here at WAB I have met many Republicans with who make a lot of sence and are polite, articulate and educated. By this I mean not the "lets nuke every rag head sand n i g g e r" type, which seem to prevade Free Republic.

If I may be as bold as to say, the problem with the US perception is the rest of the World only sees Michael Moore (who is starting to bug me now; courtsey WAB) and his right wing opposite numbers, not the Leaders, Dales and Sheks and Snipers. I agree your media is ridicoulusly left wing. While I still have not come around to agreeing with the Iraq war, (Afghanistan agreed with the start), I am rather bemused as how every IED attack on US Troops is somehow portrayed as another "First Day on the Somme", your army is a reincarnation of Halaugu Khans hordes, and the odd WP attack is a repeat of Hiroshima.

The Col has been worth a four years Bachalors in Military History. I sometimes go look up his posts and never fail to learn something new. The Indians on this forum have been mostly exasperating, however the Brig, Captain Lemontree and Monk (why is he not a senior member yet?)have made it enjoyable and I can say that I have been enriched by reading their posts. Top Hatter and Dreadnought, I never ever believed that their could be other people like me who could be as obsessed by the ins and outs of 60 year old ships. Great fun guys.

Parihaka
17 Dec 05,, 20:17
As far as accents go, the scottish accent is one which I like very much, then like Parihaka mentioned the Indian accents can be quite funny. But I also find the southern US accent rather interesting, it certainly has its charm particularly the texan and georgian. ;)

And Parihaka, didn't you have a Maori player in your cricket team a few years ago whose name went something like this,

Heath te-ihi-ohri-thi-rangi-Davis? ;)
And can you translate "Land of the long white clouds" in maori please. :biggrin:
Can't remember Heath Davis's full name sorry but 'Land of the long white cloud" is of course Aotearoa (say it oow as in it hurts tea as in the drink ah as in now I understand row as in rowing a boat ah as before

dalem
18 Dec 05,, 07:21
ROFL! One thing has to be said, that devastating american humour is a sure fire winner. British Humour has its own charm but the american humour is absolutely devastating. ;)

How so?

-dale

Monk
18 Dec 05,, 13:25
How so?

-dale

Well, its really straight up, you don't need an IQ of 140 to figure it out. And usually, it is very funny in the context of the situation. ;)

Monk
18 Dec 05,, 13:26
How it has effected my opinions of the Yanks? Well lets just say it repaired a lot of the damage from Free Republic. :rolleyes: :eek:



Are there any yanks on this board perhaps barring Julie? ;)

sparten
18 Dec 05,, 14:01
Julie and Confed are both pure Yanks through and through!!!!!

They are gonna hang Jeff Davis from a sour apple tree

Aaargh, look at me playing around with mods!!!!!!!!!

Shek
18 Dec 05,, 16:45
Are there any yanks on this board perhaps barring Julie? ;)

Myself, TH, and THL all grew up in Illinois (or Illinoise, if you aren't from the Midwest). Some of our grade school field trips are to Honest Abe's home, at least my grade school did.

TopHatter
18 Dec 05,, 18:03
Are there any yanks on this board perhaps barring Julie? ;)
Can we define yanks please? ;)

Monk
18 Dec 05,, 18:30
Can we define yanks please? ;)

Ok, I seem to have got this upside down, forget it.

TopHatter
18 Dec 05,, 18:36
Ok, I seem to have got this upside down, forget it.
Yeah, I saw that. No worries ;)

THL
18 Dec 05,, 18:39
My understanding is those southerners who fought for their independance from the union during the civil war.

NNNNOOOWWWW I understand why Julie was called a Yankee by both Monk and Sparten. :eek: LOL.








...psss, Monk....The Yanks were from the northeast. The whole 13 colonies thing? The southerners were the confederates. The Dukes of Hazzard?

Monk
18 Dec 05,, 18:47
...psss, Monk....The Yanks were from the northeast. The whole 13 colonies thing? The southerners were the confederates. The Dukes of Hazzard?


Yaup, thanks for rubbin' it in.... :biggrin:

dalem
18 Dec 05,, 19:58
Well, its really straight up, you don't need an IQ of 140 to figure it out. And usually, it is very funny in the context of the situation. ;)

Gotcha. ;)

-dale

P.S. I was born in Alabama, lived in Tennessee from 6 months to 7 years, lived in Connecticut from 7 until college. Then Michigan, Rhode Island, Michigan again, and now Minnesota.

Am I a Yankee?

THL
18 Dec 05,, 22:06
Gotcha. ;)

-dale

P.S. I was born in Alabama, lived in Tennessee from 6 months to 7 years, lived in Connecticut from 7 until college. Then Michigan, Rhode Island, Michigan again, and now Minnesota.

Am I a Yankee?
Why, Dale - You are a mid-western-yankee-redneck! And I do not at all mean that derogator-ily. :tongue:

TopHatter
18 Dec 05,, 23:06
Though I'm sure most people are aware of this, I'll say it anyway:

People from other countries, particularly the UK, use the word "Yank" as a slang expression of ALL Americans, not realizing that some Southerners might take offense to it.

THL
19 Dec 05,, 00:07
Yaup, thanks for rubbin' it in.... :biggrin:
Anytime, Monk! You know you can count on me! I'm here for ya.
:tongue:

Ray
19 Dec 05,, 04:50
Can we define yanks please? ;)

Could it be those folks who "yank" the rug under the feet? :biggrin:

Ray
19 Dec 05,, 05:05
TH,

It is not only the British who feel that all Americans are yanks.

During the period of the then Secretaryof State, John Foster Dulles, the third world walls were full of the graphiti - Yankees Go Home!

That is how the world learnt that Americans are called "Yankees".

Then there are the famous New York Yankees (the best baseball team in the US) Babe Ruth and others. Many have heard of their exploits in the field of baseball. Is it called the Super Bowl?

Therefore, Americans and Yankees have become synonymous and historical!

Therefore, Southerners, Mid Westerners, Arcticers may take offence, but to the world Americans will always be Yankees. ;) :biggrin:

I believe that the word Yankee came from the Red Indians being unable to pronounce "English" and instead said "Yanquis". But then, I believe there are many interpretations to the origin of the word, "Yankees".

Aren't you a Yankee? I think your avatar had the Union Jack, or was it someone else's? If you are not a Yankee, then please accept my apologies. But I am told that the Southerners did move down south from the North unless they were French or Spanish I presume. Do correct me on this.

Thanks

Monk
19 Dec 05,, 14:16
Though I'm sure most people are aware of this, I'll say it anyway:

People from other countries, particularly the UK, use the word "Yank" as a slang expression of ALL Americans, not realizing that some Southerners might take offense to it.

My problem was, I knew the difference but got it upside down for a few moments. By the time I recovered, you and Ms. THL had spotted it. And one Ms. THL had already started "yank"ing the rug.

Monk
19 Dec 05,, 14:17
Gotcha. ;)

-dale

P.S. I was born in Alabama, lived in Tennessee from 6 months to 7 years, lived in Connecticut from 7 until college. Then Michigan, Rhode Island, Michigan again, and now Minnesota.

Am I a Yankee?


LOL, I would say more "Hick" than yankee. :biggrin: :tongue: :biggrin: :tongue: :biggrin:

Officer of Engineers
19 Dec 05,, 14:47
I believe that the word Yankee came from the Red Indians being unable to pronounce "English" and instead said "Yanquis". But then, I believe there are many interpretations to the origin of the word, "Yankees".

Actually, Sir, the originial word was "Anglais" (pronounced On Glay), French for Enlgish. The originially mangling came in the form An Gays. It went from there. Same thing for the word Cajun, a mangling of the word Acadian. I met a guy from Louisana who tried to speak Canjun to me and I respond with Quebecois. It winded up that we both spoke English instead though his twang and my "British" accent (didn't know we had one) still took some work to get through.

Julie
19 Dec 05,, 15:20
Monk, southerners are termed "rebels," northerners are "yankees."


I was born in Alabama, lived in Tennessee from 6 months to 7 years, lived in Connecticut from 7 until college. Then Michigan, Rhode Island, Michigan again, and now Minnesota.

Am I a Yankee?You still retain your southern heritage wherever you move to. You are still a Republican even though you are living in a Democrat dominated state aren't you? :)

dalem
19 Dec 05,, 17:48
You still retain your southern heritage wherever you move to. You are still a Republican even though you are living in a Democrat dominated state aren't you? :)

That's how I've always felt. I was just wondering what "true" southerners felt about it. ;)

-dale

Julie
20 Dec 05,, 18:33
LOL, I would say more "Hick" than yankee. :biggrin: :tongue: :biggrin: :tongue: :biggrin:What do they call you since you live in "Muscat?" Hmmm....let me guess....men are raisins and women are raisinettes? :tongue:

Monk
21 Dec 05,, 13:15
What do they call you since you live in "Muscat?" Hmmm....let me guess....men are raisins and women are raisinettes? :tongue:


LOL. Really Bored.

sparten
24 Dec 05,, 13:08
I had a Yankee friend who used to get offended whenver somebody would claim to be a reb (he lived in Charleston SC), so he put this picture up in his house;

http://www.civilwarhome.com/images/surrender.jpg

Well like Monk, I know the difference, but I use the word "Yankee" for all Americans. No offence meant!

Ballguy
25 Dec 05,, 00:46
Some of the BS statistics people throw out are really annoying. Also, no one on this forum seems to have any desire to be proven wrong.

TopHatter
25 Dec 05,, 01:16
I had a Yankee friend who used to get offended whenver somebody would claim to be a reb (he lived in Charleston SC), so he put this picture up in his house
I can't imagine why he'd get offended....especially when you consider that the last "Reb" died in 1952.

All that's left are rednecks that fly what they think is the CSA flag...when in reality they don't have a clue what it really is.

"Southern Heritage Pride" indeed. :rolleyes:

Shek
25 Dec 05,, 03:19
Some of the BS statistics people throw out are really annoying. Also, no one on this forum seems to have any desire to be proven wrong.

Care to share which ones you believe are BS?

Ballguy
25 Dec 05,, 21:52
Care to share which ones you believe are BS?


That 2.5 million defensive gun use claim. Although I don't doubt self defense gun use is as rare as one would believe, to say that there are 2.5 million uses a year is BS.

Bill
25 Dec 05,, 23:12
That figure is from the US DoJ dumbass.

Why don't YOU do some reaserch, so you don't look like a freaking idiot while accusing other people of having bad data.

Ballguy
25 Dec 05,, 23:14
That figure is from the US DoJ dumbass.

Why don't YOU do some reaserch, so you don't look like a freaking idiot while accusing other people of having bad data.


Gary Kleck came up with that if I do recall. Somehow, it doesn't fit with the NCVS.

Bill
25 Dec 05,, 23:14
"Marvin Wolfgang, the late Director of the Sellin Center for Studies in Criminology and Criminal Law at the University of Pennsylvania, considered by many to be the foremost criminologist in the country, wrote in The Journal of Criminal Law & Criminology, Northwestern University School of Law, Volume 86, Number 1, Fall, 1995:

"I am as strong a gun-control advocate as can be found among the criminologists in this country. If I were Mustapha Mond of Brave New World, I would eliminate all guns from the civilian population and maybe even from the police ... What troubles me is the article by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. ["Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, published in that same issue of The Journal of Criminal Law & Criminology] The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years, namely, the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator. ...I have to admit my admiration for the care and caution expressed in this article and this research. Can it be true that about two million instances occur each year in which a gun was used as a defensive measure against crime? It is hard to believe. Yet, it is hard to challenge the data collected. We do not have contrary evidence. The National Crime Victim Survey does not directly contravene this latest survey, nor do the Mauser and Hart Studies. ... the methodological soundness of the current Kleck and Gertz study is clear. I cannot further debate it. ... The Kleck and Gertz study impresses me for the caution the authors exercise and the elaborate nuances they examine methodologically. I do not like their conclusions that having a gun can be useful, but I cannot fault their methodology. They have tried earnestly to meet all objections in advance and have done exceedingly well."

So this data has been peer-reviewed by a top criminologist in this country who was prejudiced in advance against its results, and even he found the scientific evidence overwhelmingly convincing."

Dumbass.

Bill
25 Dec 05,, 23:16
Gary Kleck came up with that if I do recall. Somehow, it doesn't fit with the NCVS.

You recall wrong.

The Clinton DoJ did a study on this subject and determined at least 1 million, and perhaps as many as 3.5 million DGUs happened every year.

We have covered this ad nauseum on this forum, and i have posted links to the actual gov't study on other threads in the past.

Search the archive, because you are FLAT OUT wrong.

Ballguy
25 Dec 05,, 23:20
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/hvfsdaft.htm

Thats the DOJ self defense number, towards the bottom of the page.

Question: What is the percent of times the person using their firearm to defend themselves shot the offender?

Bill
25 Dec 05,, 23:22
The % of the time a firearm is discharged is extremely low compared to the total uses.

Pointing a gun at someone gets the point across 99% of the time...

That link does not contain any relevant data to the discussion here, which is DGUs.

Ballguy
25 Dec 05,, 23:24
That link is just to a title page.[/QUOTE]


Self-defense with firearms

*38% of the victims defending themselves with a firearm attacked
the offender, and the others threatened the offender with the
weapon.

*A fifth of the victims defending themselves with a firearm
suffered an injury, compared to almost half of those who defended
themselves with weapons other than a firearm or who had no weapon.
Care should be used in interpreting these data because many aspects
of crimes--including victim and offender characteristics, crime
circumstances, and offender intent--contribute to the victims'
injury outcomes.


About three-fourths of the victims who used firearms for
self-defense did so during a crime of violence, 1987-92

Average annual number of victimizations
in which victims used firearms to defend
themselves or their property
________________________________________
Attacked Threatened
Total offender offender
________________________________________
All crimes 82,500 30,600 51,900
Total violent crime 62,200 25,500 36,700

With injury 12,100 7,300 4,900
Without injury 50,000 18,200 31,800

Theft, burglary,
motor vehicle theft 20,300 5,100 15,200

Note: Detail may not add to total because of rounding. Includes
victimizations in which offenders were unarmed. Excludes
homicides.

*In most cases victims who used firearms to defend themselves or
their property were confronted by offenders who were either unarmed
or armed with weapons other than firearms. On average between 1987
and 1992, about 35% (or 22,000 per year) of the violent crime
victims defending themselves with a firearm faced an offender who
also had a firearm. (Because the NCVS collects victimization data
on police officers, its estimates of the use of firearms for
self-defense are likely to include police use of firearms.
Questionnaire revisions introduced in January 1993 will permit
separate consideration of police and civilian firearm cases.)

Bill
25 Dec 05,, 23:26
That link is just to a title page.


Self-defense with firearms

*38% of the victims defending themselves with a firearm attacked
the offender, and the others threatened the offender with the
weapon.

*A fifth of the victims defending themselves with a firearm
suffered an injury, compared to almost half of those who defended
themselves with weapons other than a firearm or who had no weapon.
Care should be used in interpreting these data because many aspects
of crimes--including victim and offender characteristics, crime
circumstances, and offender intent--contribute to the victims'
injury outcomes.


About three-fourths of the victims who used firearms for
self-defense did so during a crime of violence, 1987-92

Average annual number of victimizations
in which victims used firearms to defend
themselves or their property
________________________________________
Attacked Threatened
Total offender offender
________________________________________
All crimes 82,500 30,600 51,900
Total violent crime 62,200 25,500 36,700

With injury 12,100 7,300 4,900
Without injury 50,000 18,200 31,800

Theft, burglary,
motor vehicle theft 20,300 5,100 15,200

Note: Detail may not add to total because of rounding. Includes
victimizations in which offenders were unarmed. Excludes
homicides.

*In most cases victims who used firearms to defend themselves or
their property were confronted by offenders who were either unarmed
or armed with weapons other than firearms. On average between 1987
and 1992, about 35% (or 22,000 per year) of the violent crime
victims defending themselves with a firearm faced an offender who
also had a firearm. (Because the NCVS collects victimization data
on police officers, its estimates of the use of firearms for
self-defense are likely to include police use of firearms.
Questionnaire revisions introduced in January 1993 will permit
separate consideration of police and civilian firearm cases.)[/QUOTE]


Yeah, i found the link inside the link after i posted. Again, there is no relevant data, as that study only takes into account reported DGUs.

For instance, if you approach me in my car to carjack me and i stick a gun in your face causing you to flee, the vast majority of people will not report it to police. Not worth the hassle, nor worth being subjected to being treated like a criminal by the cops.

Bill
25 Dec 05,, 23:29
"There are approximately two million defensive gun uses (DGU's) per year by law abiding citizens. That was one of the findings in a national survey conducted by Gary Kleck, a Florida State University criminologist in 1993. Prior to Dr. Kleck's survey, thirteen other surveys indicated a range of between 800,000 to 2.5 million DGU's annually. However these surveys each had their flaws which prompted Dr. Kleck to conduct his own study specifically tailored to estimate the number of DGU's annually.

Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text, PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.

There is one study, the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which in 1993, estimated 108,000 DGU's annually. Why the huge discrepancy between this survey and fourteen others? "

------------------------------------------------

The NCVS appears to be the 'lone' dissenting voice because it uses only REPORTED DGUs.

Of the other 13 studies, all support Klecks conclusions, including the US DoJ study.

http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcdguse.html

Ballguy
25 Dec 05,, 23:30
In Kleck's survey, 64% of people claimed they reported their self defense to police.

Bill
25 Dec 05,, 23:31
Klecks response to the NCVS:

"Dr. Kleck's Answer

Why is the NCVS an unacceptable estimate of annual DGU's? Dr. Kleck states, "Equally important, those who take the NCVS-based estimates seriously have consistently ignored the most pronounced limitations of the NCVS for estimating DGU frequency. The NCVS is a non-anonymous national survey conducted by a branch of the federal government, the U.S. Bureau of the Census. Interviewers identify themselves to respondents as federal government employees, even displaying, in face-to-face contacts, an identification card with a badge. Respondents are told that the interviews are being conducted on behalf of the U.S. Department of Justice, the law enforcement branch of the federal government. As a preliminary to asking questions about crime victimization experiences, interviewers establish the address, telephone number, and full names of all occupants, age twelve and over, in each household they contact. In short, it is made very clear to respondents that they are, in effect, speaking to a law enforcement arm of the federal government, whose employees know exactly who the respondents and their family members are, where they live, and how they can be recontacted."

"It is not hard for gun-using victims interviewed in the NCVS to withhold information about their use of a gun, especially since they are never directly asked whether they used a gun for self-protection. They are asked only general questions about whether they did anything to protect themselves. In short, respondents are merely give the opportunity to volunteer the information that they have used a gun defensively. All it takes for a respondents to conceal a DGU is to simply refrain from mentioning it, i.e., to leave it out of what may be an otherwise accurate and complete account of the crime incident."

"...88% of the violent crimes which respondents [Rs] reported to NCVS interviewers in 1992 were committed away from the victim's home, i.e., in a location where it would ordinarily be a crime for the victim to even possess a gun, never mind use it defensively. Because the question about location is asked before the self-protection questions, the typical violent crime victim R has already committed himself to having been victimized in a public place before being asked what he or she did for self-protection. In short, Rs usually could not mention their defensive use of a gun without, in effect, confessing to a crime to a federal government employee."

Kleck concludes his criticism of the NCVS saying it "was not designed to estimate how often people resist crime using a gun. It was designed primarily to estimate national victimization levels; it incidentally happens to include a few self-protection questions which include response categories covering resistance with a gun. Its survey instrument has been carefully refined and evaluated over the years to do as good a job as possible in getting people to report illegal things which other people have done to them. This is the exact opposite of the task which faces anyone trying to get good DGU estimates--to get people to admit controversial and possibly illegal things which the Rs themselves have done. Therefore, it is neither surprising, nor a reflection on the survey's designers, to note that the NCVS is singularly ill-suited for estimating the prevalence or incidence of DGU. It is not credible to regard this survey as an acceptable basis for establishing, in even the roughest way, how often Americans use guns for self-protection."

(Source: Gary, Kleck and Marc Gertz, "Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology 1995, Vol. 86 No. 1.)

PS: Even IF the DGUs is "only" 108,00 per annum, that is a HUGE figure, and clearly makes the case that guns are often used in self defense by victoms of crime.

Ballguy
25 Dec 05,, 23:33
Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text, PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.

There is one study, the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which in 1993, estimated 108,000 DGU's annually. Why the huge discrepancy between this survey and fourteen others? "


Statisticians for one, laugh at Kleck's study, because he attempted to estimate a very rare event using five thousand people of similar demographics. Most also find it laughable that one can rely more on a simple "have you ever used a gun in self defense" than a sophisticated survey such as the NCVS.


Please, if you would, send links to the 13 other studies.

Bill
25 Dec 05,, 23:34
In Kleck's survey, 64% of people claimed they reported their self defense to police.

Sure, 64% of the sample group. That's the problem with sample groups. The results vary depending on the sample.

I've had about a half dozen DGUs since i came of age in 1987, and none of them were ever reported.

Bill
25 Dec 05,, 23:35
Subsequent to Kleck's study, the Department of Justice sponsored a survey in 1994 titled, Guns in America: National Survey on Private Ownership and Use of Firearms (text, PDF). Using a smaller sample size than Kleck's, this survey estimated 1.5 million DGU's annually.

There is one study, the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS), which in 1993, estimated 108,000 DGU's annually. Why the huge discrepancy between this survey and fourteen others? "


Statisticians for one, laugh at Kleck's study, because he attempted to estimate a very rare event using five thousand people of similar demographics. Most also find it laughable that one can rely more on a simple "have you ever used a gun in self defense" than a sophisticated survey such as the NCVS.


Please, if you would, send links to the 13 other studies.


They do?

Well, not the TOP criminologist in the country:

""Marvin Wolfgang, the late Director of the Sellin Center for Studies in Criminology and Criminal Law at the University of Pennsylvania, considered by many to be the foremost criminologist in the country, wrote in The Journal of Criminal Law & Criminology, Northwestern University School of Law, Volume 86, Number 1, Fall, 1995:

"I am as strong a gun-control advocate as can be found among the criminologists in this country. If I were Mustapha Mond of Brave New World, I would eliminate all guns from the civilian population and maybe even from the police ... What troubles me is the article by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. ["Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun," by Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz, published in that same issue of The Journal of Criminal Law & Criminology] The reason I am troubled is that they have provided an almost clear cut case of methodologically sound research in support of something I have theoretically opposed for years, namely, the use of a gun in defense against a criminal perpetrator. ...I have to admit my admiration for the care and caution expressed in this article and this research. Can it be true that about two million instances occur each year in which a gun was used as a defensive measure against crime? It is hard to believe. Yet, it is hard to challenge the data collected. We do not have contrary evidence. The National Crime Victim Survey does not directly contravene this latest survey, nor do the Mauser and Hart Studies. ... the methodological soundness of the current Kleck and Gertz study is clear. I cannot further debate it. ... The Kleck and Gertz study impresses me for the caution the authors exercise and the elaborate nuances they examine methodologically. I do not like their conclusions that having a gun can be useful, but I cannot fault their methodology. They have tried earnestly to meet all objections in advance and have done exceedingly well.""

Bill
25 Dec 05,, 23:37
Please, if you would, send links to the 13 other studies.

They're all in the link i provided earlier(or at least some of them).

13-1 says the NCVS is the flawed survey, and even if it was 100% correct, 108,000 DGUs per annum is a HUGE number and clearly displays that guns are used quite frequently to defend the innocent from criminal predators.

Bill
25 Dec 05,, 23:39
"Excerpted from ABCNEWS.com:

The political climate surrounding guns is so intense that studies have been done of studies that have been done about studies. Philip Cook, the director of Duke University's public policy institute, has examined the data behind the 108,000 and the 2.5 million figures and suspects the truth lies somewhere in between. "Many of the basic statistics about guns are in wide disagreement with each other depending on which source you go to," says Cook, a member of the apolitical National Consortium on Violence Research. "That's been a real puzzle to people who are trying to understand what's going on." "

For once i agree with the MSM.

The actual DGU number is somewhere in the middle. Ifin i had to guess i'd say it's probably about a million just based on how many people carry nowadays, and how many times i hear about them from buds and in the news.(there was just one two days ago here, a local PGW gov't employee blasted a would be robber with his licensed pistol).

Ballguy
25 Dec 05,, 23:50
First of all, the interviewers are NOT law enforcement officers:

Secondly, if they were afraid to report there self defense gun use, why would they participate in the survey?

Thirdly, respondents in K-G's survey claim to be the victims of more than four times the robberies as is estimated by the NCVS.

Fourth, if you were to extrapolate the K-G survey, we are led to believe that guns save over four hundred thousand people from certain death. Yet only 27,000 homicides occurred in the year of the study.

fifth, because K-G's survey produces results almost 20 times higher than the NCVS, they are forced to claim that 19 out of 20 people who had a legitimate slef defense gun use did not report it to the NCVS.

Kleck and gertz claim that most respondents do not report their self-defense gun use to the NCVS because it was illegal. This is not possible for several reasons:

1: It is not clear why the use should be illegal

2: Respondents are not asked about any illegality

3: Census Bureau surveyors are not permitted to report any individual information to any authority: And I believe this is explained to participants

4: There exists no evidence that any such information has ever been provided to authorities.

5: No respondent has ever been punished for providing any particular response.

6: On similar surveys, respondents report all sorts of crime.

Ballguy
25 Dec 05,, 23:59
Sure, 64% of the sample group. That's the problem with sample groups. The results vary depending on the sample.

I find this hilarious, because it IS from the Kleck survey you continue to defend.

I've had about a half dozen DGUs since i came of age in 1987, and none of them were ever reported.

You were in the military, correct? Did you ever fire your weapon defending yourself then?

Ballguy
26 Dec 05,, 00:11
[QUOTE=M21Sniper]"Excerpted from ABCNEWS.com:

The political climate surrounding guns is so intense that studies have been done of studies that have been done about studies. Philip Cook, the director of Duke University's public policy institute, has examined the data behind the 108,000 and the 2.5 million figures and suspects the truth lies somewhere in between. "Many of the basic statistics about guns are in wide disagreement with each other depending on which source you go to," says Cook, a member of the apolitical National Consortium on Violence Research. "That's been a real puzzle to people who are trying to understand what's going on." "

Please, do post the whole quote.

Bill
26 Dec 05,, 00:43
[QUOTE=M21Sniper]"Excerpted from ABCNEWS.com:

The political climate surrounding guns is so intense that studies have been done of studies that have been done about studies. Philip Cook, the director of Duke University's public policy institute, has examined the data behind the 108,000 and the 2.5 million figures and suspects the truth lies somewhere in between. "Many of the basic statistics about guns are in wide disagreement with each other depending on which source you go to," says Cook, a member of the apolitical National Consortium on Violence Research. "That's been a real puzzle to people who are trying to understand what's going on." "

Please, do post the whole quote.

All on the link i posted earlier.

Bill
26 Dec 05,, 00:45
You were in the military, correct? Did you ever fire your weapon defending yourself then?

I wasn't including any military related firearms use. The half dozen times i cite are post ETS(1990).

Bill
26 Dec 05,, 00:47
First of all, the interviewers are NOT law enforcement officers:

Secondly, if they were afraid to report there self defense gun use, why would they participate in the survey?

Thirdly, respondents in K-G's survey claim to be the victims of more than four times the robberies as is estimated by the NCVS.

Fourth, if you were to extrapolate the K-G survey, we are led to believe that guns save over four hundred thousand people from certain death. Yet only 27,000 homicides occurred in the year of the study.

fifth, because K-G's survey produces results almost 20 times higher than the NCVS, they are forced to claim that 19 out of 20 people who had a legitimate slef defense gun use did not report it to the NCVS.

Kleck and gertz claim that most respondents do not report their self-defense gun use to the NCVS because it was illegal. This is not possible for several reasons:

1: It is not clear why the use should be illegal

2: Respondents are not asked about any illegality

3: Census Bureau surveyors are not permitted to report any individual information to any authority: And I believe this is explained to participants

4: There exists no evidence that any such information has ever been provided to authorities.

5: No respondent has ever been punished for providing any particular response.

6: On similar surveys, respondents report all sorts of crime.

This would be a whole lot simpler if you actually read not just the stuff i link/post, but the stuff you link to as well.

Ballguy
26 Dec 05,, 17:34
M21, understand I am not advocating for the unconstitutional removal of guns from the hands of law abiding citizens, I am merely stating the fact that the 2.5 million self defense gun uses is screwy.

dalem
27 Dec 05,, 05:24
M21, understand I am not advocating for the unconstitutional removal of guns from the hands of law abiding citizens, I am merely stating the fact that the 2.5 million self defense gun uses is screwy.

Why do you believe it is screwy? And how is that relevant? Aren't a million DGUs per year just as compelling?

-dale

Ironduke
27 Dec 05,, 12:28
I feel sorry for Gio....he is such a right-wing conservative stuck in California (a blue state) with his parents. :redface: If he ever relocated in a red state, he would definitely hit the ground running. :tongue:
I don't think Gio could be put down as conservatives. He (and I) are liberal on social issues. I'm a libertarian myself. Here's a link if you'd like to read about libertarianism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Libertarian

Ballguy
27 Dec 05,, 23:04
Why do you believe it is screwy? And how is that relevant? Aren't a million DGUs per year just as compelling?

-dale

It's nowhere near a million, according to the federal government.

TopHatter
27 Dec 05,, 23:07
It's nowhere near a million, according to the federal government.
Ballguy, the gents on this board are really big on sources. Without them, it's all just hot wind...even coming from a long-time member like me. (Torpedo Eight eh Snipe? ;) )

Ballguy
27 Dec 05,, 23:22
Ballguy, the gents on this board are really big on sources. Without them, it's all just hot wind...even coming from a long-time member like me. (Torpedo Eight eh Snipe? ;) )


I think I already showed what the Feds had to say. Few outside of the gun lobby accept any of the numbers that these criminologists put up. Statisticians have successfully dissected and destroyed any such claim time and time again.
John Lott has been smashed to pieces so many times he is not remotely worth citing. David Hemenway successfully challenged Gary Kleck. Yet every single time anybody argues with the gun lobby, they change their numbers. None of the studies and models done by pro gun criminologists would last ten minutes in an argument with a statistician or nearly any mathematician.

This is article that appeare in the New England Journal of Medicine's critique of John Lott.
The New England Journal of Medicine; December 31, 1998; Volume 339, Number 27


Here is the Link: http://www.vahv.org/oped/nejm2029.html


P.S. I do know that John Lott is not a criminologist.

dalem
27 Dec 05,, 23:33
It's nowhere near a million, according to the federal government.

So what is the number that you believe is more accurate than the 2-3 million cited?

And what is your view on private gun ownership?

-dale

Ballguy
27 Dec 05,, 23:40
So what is the number that you believe is more accurate than the 2-3 million cited?

And what is your view on private gun ownership?

-dale


I believe the number is closer to 120-140,000 uses a year.

I fully believe the right of law abiding citizens to own firearms is protected by the second amendment. However, I believe common sense should be a factor in this, i.e., no one should be able to own a fully automatic .50 caliber machine gun.

Confed999
27 Dec 05,, 23:49
However, I believe common sense should be a factor in this, i.e., no one should be able to own a fully automatic .50 caliber machine gun.
Hmmm, so what is the difference between a semi-automatic shotgun, and a fully automatic .50 cal?

Ballguy
27 Dec 05,, 23:54
Hmmm, so what is the difference between a semi-automatic shotgun, and a fully automatic .50 cal?

Because, to the best of my knowledge, a shotgun cannot shoot over a mile accurately, and shotguns are useful for hunting. A .50 caliber machine gun would tear game apart.

dalem
28 Dec 05,, 00:26
I believe the number is closer to 120-140,000 uses a year.

And even that number is not significant to you?



I fully believe the right of law abiding citizens to own firearms is protected by the second amendment. However, I believe common sense should be a factor in this, i.e., no one should be able to own a fully automatic .50 caliber machine gun.

Why not?

-dale

Confed999
28 Dec 05,, 00:29
Because, to the best of my knowledge, a shotgun cannot shoot over a mile accurately
In the right hands, just as with the .50 cal, there are bolt-action rifles that shoot that far.

and shotguns are useful for hunting. A .50 caliber machine gun would tear game apart.
I don't hunt. I shoot at a range, or in the woods, so all firearms are useful. Still, I have seen the effect of a shotgun at close range on meat. Tears it apart. Also, in some hunting, this is actually the objective. Think "prairie dog".

TopHatter
28 Dec 05,, 02:21
However, I believe common sense should be a factor in this, i.e., no one should be able to own a fully automatic .50 caliber machine gun.
Common sense and a little research also show that there have not been all that many - read ZERO - .50 cal full-auto crimes committed since the weapon was invented.

Have you seen the paperwork and permits needed to own one of those monsters? The Feds know pretty much anything and everything about you. That's assuming you even live in an area where they're permitted.

It's not legal automatic weapons that are being used in crimes. Worry about the illegal ones first, THEN start thinking the legal full-autos....IF they ever get used in a crime within your lifetime.

Ballguy
28 Dec 05,, 22:54
Why should anyone own a fully automatic .50 caliber? There is no practical purpose for a .50 cal? The weapons should not even be sold to civilians.

dalem
28 Dec 05,, 22:57
Why should anyone own a fully automatic .50 caliber? There is no practical purpose for a .50 cal? The weapons should not even be sold to civilians.

Why not?

-dale

Ballguy
28 Dec 05,, 23:06
Why not?

-dale
I asked you.

dalem
28 Dec 05,, 23:23
I asked you.

Are you a fool? You advocated banning the ownership of a particular weapon or class of weapon. I asked you why you advocate that. You have yet to answer my question.

-dale

Ballguy
28 Dec 05,, 23:27
Because the damage one .50 caliber weapon could inflict is so incredibly dramatic. also, who is going to hunt with a tripod mounted 70 plus pound weapon? The Aryan Nations and the militia in Idaho?

dalem
29 Dec 05,, 00:11
Because the damage one .50 caliber weapon could inflict is so incredibly dramatic. also, who is going to hunt with a tripod mounted 70 plus pound weapon? The Aryan Nations and the militia in Idaho?

How dramatic is "dead by .50 cal" vs. "dead by .22LR"? And so what? As has already been mentioned, they are expensive and hard to get.

And guns have more uses than just hunting.

You are displaying a deep ignorance of the topic. Whether it is feigned or real is yet to be determined.

-dale

Ballguy
29 Dec 05,, 00:17
[QUOTE=dalem]How dramatic is "dead by .50 cal" vs. "dead by .22LR"? And so what? As has already been mentioned, they are expensive and hard to get.

Your dichotomy offers a false sense of security. There are no .22 LR machine guns, a .22 LR does not cause the massive damage caused by a .50 cal, and sure, dead is dead is dead, but I am certain more people will die in a shooting involving a .50 caliber machine gun than a .22 LR of any type.

And guns have more uses than just hunting.

You are displaying a deep ignorance of the topic. Whether it is feigned or real is yet to be determined.

First of all dale, i used hunting as an example. Secondly, if you cannot see the difference between an example and a broad assumption, please do not comment on it.

dalem
29 Dec 05,, 00:33
[QUOTE=dalem]How dramatic is "dead by .50 cal" vs. "dead by .22LR"? And so what? As has already been mentioned, they are expensive and hard to get.

Your dichotomy offers a false sense of security. There are no .22 LR machine guns, a .22 LR does not cause the massive damage caused by a .50 cal, and sure, dead is dead is dead, but I am certain more people will die in a shooting involving a .50 caliber machine gun than a .22 LR of any type.

And guns have more uses than just hunting.

You are displaying a deep ignorance of the topic. Whether it is feigned or real is yet to be determined.

First of all dale, i used hunting as an example. Secondly, if you cannot see the difference between an example and a broad assumption, please do not comment on it.

You use hunting as an example of what? Utility? Need? Well heck, by those standards we don't "need" Ducati crotch rockets or Porsche 911s either. Get rid of all autos more high performance than a Ford Escort. And why allow modern rifles at all? Man hunted game successfully for centuries with rifled muskets, let's go back to those.

-dale

Ballguy
29 Dec 05,, 00:37
[QUOTE=dalem][QUOTE=Ballguy]

You use hunting as an example of what? Utility? Need? Well heck, by those standards we don't "need" Ducati crotch rockets or Porsche 911s either. Get rid of all autos more high performance than a Ford Escort. And why allow modern rifles at all? Man hunted game successfully for centuries with rifled muskets, let's go back to those.


I used it as an example of the ineffectiveness of .50 caliber weapons in fields other than warfare.

dalem
29 Dec 05,, 00:51
[QUOTE=dalem][QUOTE=Ballguy]

You use hunting as an example of what? Utility? Need? Well heck, by those standards we don't "need" Ducati crotch rockets or Porsche 911s either. Get rid of all autos more high performance than a Ford Escort. And why allow modern rifles at all? Man hunted game successfully for centuries with rifled muskets, let's go back to those.


I used it as an example of the ineffectiveness of .50 caliber weapons in fields other than warfare.

Sure, but ineffectiveness in what context? You squeeze the trigger and a bullet comes out the barrel - that's the fun part, the useful part, the sporting part.

-dale

Ballguy
29 Dec 05,, 00:54
[QUOTE=Ballguy][QUOTE=dalem]

Sure, but ineffectiveness in what context? You squeeze the trigger and a bullet comes out the barrel - that's the fun part, the useful part, the sporting part.

-dale


Well, you hunt for food, a fifty caliber will shred most everything.
It goes through things (Think Ruby Ridge on a larger scale I guess)

It screams militia (although that is not relevant whatsoever, I felt like saying it)

dalem
29 Dec 05,, 01:07
[QUOTE=dalem][QUOTE=Ballguy]


Well, you hunt for food, a fifty caliber will shred most everything.
It goes through things (Think Ruby Ridge on a larger scale I guess)

It screams militia (although that is not relevant whatsoever, I felt like saying it)

So we're back to hunting.

I bet a .50cal would do a nice job on a bear or moose and still leave some good eatin'. The .450 or .577 3" cartridges, or the .600 Nitro Express, are probably more powerful game rifles than a .50cal, and they've been good big game rounds for over a century.

-dale

Ballguy
29 Dec 05,, 04:30
Because we are not going anywhere productive, lets just agree to disagree.

dalem
29 Dec 05,, 05:34
Because we are not going anywhere productive, lets just agree to disagree.

Because you're a frikkin' idiot and you don't know anything about the topic you brought up (or are pretending to not know), is more like it.

-dale

Ray
29 Dec 05,, 06:03
Common sense and a little research also show that there have not been all that many - read ZERO - .50 cal full-auto crimes committed since the weapon was invented.

Have you seen the paperwork and permits needed to own one of those monsters? The Feds know pretty much anything and everything about you. That's assuming you even live in an area where they're permitted.

It's not legal automatic weapons that are being used in crimes. Worry about the illegal ones first, THEN start thinking the legal full-autos....IF they ever get used in a crime within your lifetime.

TH,

I find that most Americans are obsessed with owing of firearms and more lethal the better. Much debate I have seen on this forum, but I have not quite understood the "pressure" behind owning such weapons.

My limited knowledge of the US domestic scene indicates that the law and order in the US is very good indeed and the justice system is much faster.

Therefore, guns in a peaceful society where the police are efficient and the justice system fast, appears a bit incongruous.

What is the psychology behind owing of firearms and that too very lethal of the type that could start a revolution in South America?

In India, in our badlands of UP, Bihar and MP, this psychology is prevalent. It is sort of macho to own weapons and even a 12 bore is OK for them without or without the ammunition.

To own a weapon in India, we have to have licences that includes the number of rounds we can have. Licences for Automatic weapons are just not given. It requires our Federal Home Ministry's clearance and that never comes!

Horrido
29 Dec 05,, 06:50
Ballguy, it is YOU that are clearly and undeniably ignorant on the subject of firearms, and a competitive shooter for 26 years is now going to explain to you why:

One, there ARE automatic .22 LR rifles out there, and there are also kits that allow you to attach a crank system to a semi-automatic .22 and crank out rounds as fast as an automatic. Also, I know of only TWO instances where legally-possessed machine guns were used in crimes in the US. In BOTH cases, the perpetrators were POLICE OFFICERS! :mad:

Two, there is absolutely ZERO reason to ban .50 rifles, as they are no greater threat than any other high-powered rifle out there. In fact, a standard hunting rifle is a MUCH greater threat than a .50. This may seem incongruous to you, but you CANNOT conceal a .50, nor can you set it into position in time to do any real damage without being noticed by somebody, and they are a castiron ***** to transport. Also keep in mind, NO CRIME has EVER been committed with a .50 rifle, NOT ONE! I've heard people whine that some "terrorist" might try to take down an airliner on take-off. Well, guess what, I can take down that same airliner with a 19th century Civil War muzzle loader.

Three, there ARE legitimate shooting competitions where .50s are used. I am a range officer for one such range in my state.

Also, for your information, since you seem to be working with fewer facts than Al Sharpton at a press conference, the Aryan Nations, in Idaho at least, is HISTORY! BANKRUPT! BURNED TO THE GROUND! DICK BUTLER is DECEASED! As for your militia comment, LEARN YOUR HISTORY! The Militia is every able-bodied male between the ages of, if I remember correctly, 16-60! As for Ruby Ridge, the people doing the wild, crazy, murderous shooting WAS THE GOVERNMENT! They attacked without warning or identification, killed a man's son and his wife (while she was holding their infant) and were hoping to cover it up by killing everyone else in that cabin, man, woman, and child! Randy Weaver was found guilty of only one thing, not showing for trial. The government was found guilty of ENTRAPMENT for the original weapons charge! There is a reason the FBI have been taunted with the line: "The Mounties always get their man...The FBI will get his wife and kids!"

There is absolutely NO reason to ban .50s, and I am TIRED and ANGRY at the lies and fearmongering of the socialist left trying to take away my freedoms and civil liberties.

Horrido
29 Dec 05,, 07:20
Ray, I might be able to answer that question for you, at least from my perspective:

It is not an obsession with owning firearms, per-say. One of our fundimental rights is "A well-regulated militia being necessary for the security of a Free State, The Right of the People to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." It is an obsession with preserving and protecting this right, this freedom, that motivates me and most other gun owners that I know. I believe it is unique to Americans alone in this world. Law and order is indeed, for the most part, effective and efficient in the US, but here are some things that need to be considered, both historically and currently.

Historically, the US system is founded on individual liberty and freedom, this includes the people being able to defend themselves from enemies foreign and domestic, domestic being a government becoming a totalitarian state, dictatorship, whatever. A government that does not fear the people will not serve the people. As a result of this, in my personal opinion, upstanding US citizens should legally be able to own any small-arms available to the military and police forces.

In modern times, it must be considered that while police forces are, for the most part, effective, there are some well-noted and publicized instances where law and order has broken down, and the people were left to defend themselves. Two such instances are the LA riots after the Rodney King verdict, where police fled the scene leaving the city to anarchy, and the recent New Orleans Police debacle (Now we know what NO-PD REALLY meant.) where police were themselves taking part in the thievery. What made the situation even more disgusting were police officers and, if I remember correctly, US military, trying to CONFISCATE legally-owned firearms from quiet neighborhood "militias" where neighbors had joined together to protect each other from bands of criminals.

Police response times are notoriously slow. If you are under attack, you will not have the luxury of plodding through an emergency call and hoping the police will arrive in time to save you. Even 5 minutes is too long. The police officers I shoot with admit, privately, that all they are, are body counters there to clean up the aftermath. Because of this, I am determined any bodies they count will NOT include mine. I can get out of jail if my reaction is legally in the wrong, I can NOT get out of being dead if I fail to react in time. The US is also still a highly rural society, with people living great distances from the nearest police station. Legally, you are responsible for protecting yourself. Because of this, I want to own a selection of equipment to choose from to fit whatever situation I can imagine.

On the issue of licensing of firearms, historically, as in Britain, Canada, and Australia, licensing is the first step to a database for later confiscation. If the government does not know who owns what, or where, they cannot kick-down your door, slam you to the floor, and steal your property.

dalem
29 Dec 05,, 07:21
TH,

I find that most Americans are obsessed with owing of firearms and more lethal the better. Much debate I have seen on this forum, but I have not quite understood the "pressure" behind owning such weapons.


I can't speak to any "pressure", but I think the root of it is our general belief that having a gun when you need it is better than not having one when you need it.

Plus they are fun.

-dale

Horrido
29 Dec 05,, 07:35
Therefore, guns in a peaceful society where the police are efficient and the justice system fast, appears a bit incongruous.

This is a misassociation, as you are insinuating that firearms are a cause of violence. Besides, in what better society to own firearms than a peaceful, respectiful, and polite society?



What is the psychology behind owing of firearms and that too very lethal of the type that could start a revolution in South America?

A gun that starts a revolution...a very intriguing concept. Can you present to us any particular make or model of firearm that has done so, independently and on its own accord?



I can't speak to any "pressure", but I think the root of it is our general belief that having a gun when you need it is better than not having one when you need it.

No one ever needs a gun... until they need one desperately.

Ray
29 Dec 05,, 16:22
Horrido,

Thank you for the explanation. It does make things clearer for me.

I am neither for or anti guns in the US since I don't live there. It is for Americans themselves to debate out.

My doubt was that if one wants to own a gun, even for self protection, why go for an automatic and that too a heavy calibre? Any rifle would do.

One would like an automatic when one has to confront a mob in civil life and when the enemy is attacking in war!

Hunting is a sport. One should use a weapon that allows the prey an equal chance. That is why one does not shoot sitting birds and instead takes the bird "on the wing" i.e. when flying! It is for the adventure of it and not for eating!

.50 MGs are great to use when you want to mow down the enemy. That is the equation to revolution. No particular make was in my mind.

I used a .50 HMG and brought down an enemy bunker and it crumbled like a slow action movie! Of course, the barrel lining melted but that is another issue!

Therefore, I hold that weapon in awe!

TopHatter
29 Dec 05,, 16:45
Horrido,

Thank you for the explanation. It does make things clearer for me.

I am neither for or anti guns in the US since I don't live there. It is for Americans themselves to debate out.

My doubt was that if one wants to own a gun, even for self protection, why go for an automatic and that too a heavy calibre? Any rifle would do.

One would like an automatic when one has to confront a mob in civil life and when the enemy is attacking in war!

Hunting is a sport. One should use a weapon that allows the prey an equal chance. That is why one does not shoot sitting birds and instead takes the bird "on the wing" i.e. when flying! It is for the adventure of it and not for eating!

.50 MGs are great to use when you want to mow down the enemy. That is the equation to revolution. No particular make was in my mind.

I used a .50 HMG and brought down an enemy bunker and it crumbled like a slow action movie! Of course, the barrel lining melted but that is another issue!

Therefore, I hold that weapon in awe!
Brigadier,
There is also shooting for the fun of it. As just about anybody who has shot an automatic weapon can say, "automatic weapons are fun!" :)

In this case, ballguy has a problem with legally owning such a large caliber automatic, in this case the Browning M2.

Oddly enough, I know of no crimes committed using a legally owned weapon of this kind or any kind of heavy machine gun, for that matter. I believe there have been less than 5 (only 3) incidents of someone being killed with a legally owned automatic weapon and one of those cases involved a police officer as the guilty party.

So, besides self-protection and hunting, apparently it is wrong to own a weapon simply for the sheer fun of plinking.
In that case, I had better go destroy my trusty little .380 as it has little to no value in self-defense, is utterly useless in hunting and therefore can only have one use: Crime

An inevitable criminal...me! Who woulda thought it... :frown:
*shaking my head in amazement*

Officer of Engineers
29 Dec 05,, 17:31
Sir,

Up here in the rural areas, it's impossible not to have guns. Animals from time to time needed to be put down and waiting several hours for the vet to arrive is not fair to the animal.

dalem
29 Dec 05,, 19:52
Oops!

http://www.dmancini.com/pictures/swords/Image01.jpg

Now, how did that happen?

-dale

Shek
29 Dec 05,, 20:12
Oops!

http://www.dmancini.com/pictures/swords/Image01.jpg

Now, how did that happen?

-dale

Your mother should have stuck to her guns and not let your father get you the Red Ryder BB Gun for Christmas when you were a kid ;) .

Anoop C
29 Dec 05,, 21:07
I would like to practise rifle marksmanship, but am not interested in owning a firearm. I am not a US citizen, either, so there could be issues with purchasing a firearm anyway.

Is it possible to rent a rifle at shooting clubs in the US for marksmanship practice and return them before leaving? Or does one have to own a rifle in order to practise?

Thanks in advance.

dalem
29 Dec 05,, 21:20
I would like to practise rifle marksmanship, but am not interested in owning a firearm. I am not a US citizen, either, so there could be issues with purchasing a firearm anyway.

Is it possible to rent a rifle at shooting clubs in the US for marksmanship practice and return them before leaving? Or does one have to own a rifle in order to practise?

Thanks in advance.

Sure, but sometimes it depends on your area or the rules of the individual range owner. You could check on www.nra.org for local info.

-dale

Anoop C
29 Dec 05,, 21:36
Dale,

Thank you. I found one less than 1 mile from my place!!

Horrido
30 Dec 05,, 00:47
Anoop, because you are not a US citizen, you are not permitted to possess a firearm, nor is anyone allowed to provide you with one, in the US without a federal permit to do so. Otherwise, it is a federal offense and a felony. There are some exceptions, however, depending on the circumstances. I would make it a point to ask the local gun range, contact the NRA website, and perhaps even go to a local police station (who will hopefully be friendly and helpful, depends on where you are and who you're dealing with) for information to keep things as legal and kosher as possible.

THL
30 Dec 05,, 20:36
Can we define yanks please? ;)
Here is a quiz that can be taken to determine if one is a Yankee or a Rebel.

http://www.alphadictionary.com/articles/yankeetest.html

dalem
30 Dec 05,, 20:46
52% (Dixie). Right on the Mason-Dixon Line.

-dale

THL
30 Dec 05,, 20:49
I was 52% Yankee...Who'd have thought?

Trooth
30 Dec 05,, 20:59
WAB hasn't changed my opinion of Americans (in this in include Canadians) or the US (in which grouping i obviously don't include Canadians).

What is has emphasised to me is that the US (and Canada) are populated by individuals. I am as capable of disagreeing with the American members of the aboarding as disgreeing with them - but this has nothing to do with them being US citizens or Canadian, it is about their opinion.

In terms of the US itself, my one sweeping generalisation that remains is i am not sure how many of her citizens are as informed / outward looking as those of her citizens that inhabit this board.

I have some friends in the US who, how can i put this, would find the debate on WAB to be too boring as it is too much about the world, and not local enough for them.

Anoop C
30 Dec 05,, 21:14
Horrido,

Thanks for the advice. When I called the firing range near my place, I was told that I would need a license to rent a firearm for practice on their premises (I don't intend to own one anyway). I don't yet know if such a license is given to non-US citizens, but I'll find out. Apparently the range has the application form.

Julie
30 Dec 05,, 21:42
79% (Dixie). Your neck must be at least pink! LOL :tongue:

Ballguy
30 Dec 05,, 23:43
Yankee. I'm from Chicago, of course I am.

TopHatter
31 Dec 05,, 00:22
Damn...49% Yankee - Barely In The Yankee Category.

I've been living in Florida too long... :confused:

I gave the test to my mother over the phone (admittedly not the best way of taking it). Bless her heart she scored: 40% (Yankee). You are definitely a Yankee. :)

The big challenge will be my Tennessee-born but Chicago-raised father :biggrin:

Parihaka
05 Jan 06,, 09:54
Here is a quiz that can be taken to determine if one is a Yankee or a Rebel.

http://www.alphadictionary.com/articles/yankeetest.html
HA Ha, I got this and I'm not even American
52% (Dixie). Right on the Mason-Dixon Line
So, yankees, rebs, and lots of guns. Maybe I should have paid more attention to those cowboy movies :biggrin:
Favourite cowboy movie: The Outlaw Josey Wales. Clint stops talking and puts the reins between his teeth................

Ray
05 Jan 06,, 12:24
The poll polled "Don't know"! :biggrin:

Bluesman
05 Jan 06,, 15:09
[QUOTE=parihakaFavourite cowboy movie: The Outlaw Josey Wales. Clint stops talking and puts the reins between his teeth................[/QUOTE]

One of the best 'tough guy' lines ever put on film:

"You gonna pull them pistols, or whistle 'Dixie'?"

I just WISH I was cool enough to a) think of something that fierce to say, and b) be able to say it to a guy that was about to try to kill me without my voice cracking.

Parihaka
06 Jan 06,, 09:13
One of the best 'tough guy' lines ever put on film:

"You gonna pull them pistols, or whistle 'Dixie'?"

I just WISH I was cool enough to a) think of something that fierce to say, and b) be able to say it to a guy that was about to try to kill me without my voice cracking.
LOL, whenever I think of that line I indeed immediately start whistling. Yes Sir mr Eastwood, want me to dance too?

Boscoe
10 Jan 06,, 11:22
33% (Yankee). You are definitely a Yankee.

Thats odd, considering I'm not even American and live halfway around the world.

Boscoe
10 Jan 06,, 11:23
33% (Yankee). You are definitely a Yankee.

Thats odd, considering I'm not even American and live halfway around the world.
Its a fun quiz anyway!

THL
10 Jan 06,, 14:25
33% (Yankee). You are definitely a Yankee.

Thats odd, considering I'm not even American and live halfway around the world.
Its a fun quiz anyway!
From one Yank to another...Welcome. Where are you from Boscoe?

Bulgaroctonus
10 Jan 06,, 15:10
43% (Yankee). Barely in the Yankee category.

Oh well. New Jersey is not the Northeast, its the Mid-Atlantic seaboard. So, I'll accept a watered down version of Yankeedom.

Ballguy
12 Jan 06,, 02:47
For instance, if you approach me in my car to carjack me and i stick a gun in your face causing you to flee, the vast majority of people will not report it to police. Not worth the hassle, nor worth being subjected to being treated like a criminal by the cops.[/QUOTE]


Actually, if you search the officer.com forums, you will find that most police respect those who use their firearms to defend themselves.

Boscoe
17 Jan 06,, 13:31
From one Yank to another...Welcome. Where are you from Boscoe?

Hi THL
I'm from Mumbai, India

Cheers!

dalem
17 Jan 06,, 17:09
For instance, if you approach me in my car to carjack me and i stick a gun in your face causing you to flee, the vast majority of people will not report it to police. Not worth the hassle, nor worth being subjected to being treated like a criminal by the cops.


Actually, if you search the officer.com forums, you will find that most police respect those who use their firearms to defend themselves.

Most officers are also bound by duty and the law to do their jobs. Often that job would entail writing up a report on such an event with a possible investigation to follow.

Use you head and follow through with your thoughts, please.

-dale

mostlymad
19 Jan 06,, 16:51
So, for all non-Americans, how has WAB and/or other message boards influenced your opinions about the United States?

(rubs her hands in anticipation and gives an evil chuckle...)

well, since you asked ...

actually, as with any board, I doubt this one is representative of Americans in general since it appeals to specific people and this one shows people who care about world affairs, enjoy tough debates, like to get other perspectives. Also, there is a strong military presence here. Keeping that in mind, I am happy to see this type of American I didn’t typically run into when I lived in the States. WAB has shown me Americans who are passionate and can debate with intelligence, ones who are open to other points of view, respect and value other cultures...complex, instrospectful, lots of fun, very educational.

Hope this doesn’t sound condescending, pointing out what to you must be obvious, but while I never myself believed all Americans are pompous, self-righteous, and overbearing war mongers, WAB goes a long way to breaking that view that some people have of Americans.

(Oh, and you guys sure do like guns! :) )

Dreadnought
19 Jan 06,, 17:03
A damed Yankee with southern family. :redface:

LOL..the Mason Dixon Line is only about 8-10 miles from me.. :biggrin:

TopHatter
19 Jan 06,, 17:33
...while I never myself believed all Americans are pompous, self-righteous, and overbearing war mongers...

Actually I'm rather proud of that repuation. :confused:

...especially the war monger part :redface:





;)

Dreadnought
20 Jan 06,, 17:21
Actually I'm rather proud of that repuation. :confused:

...especially the war monger part :redface:





;)

Dam straight lad :biggrin:

Gio
23 Jan 06,, 06:19
I saw the thread title and got panicky thinking,"Please, don't let Gio be the benchmark! Don't let Gio be the benchmark!" :eek:
C UN T :P

Gio
23 Jan 06,, 06:28
I feel sorry for Gio....he is such a right-wing conservative stuck in California (a blue state) with his parents. :redface: If he ever relocated in a red state, he would definitely hit the ground running. :tongue:
Since when am I a right-wing conservative? Says the Democratic woman with confederate sympathies from a red state who opposes abortion and gay rights to the Independent male who supports abortion and gay rights and more enviromental regulations. :P

Gio
23 Jan 06,, 06:36
I don't think Gio could be put down as conservatives. He (and I) are liberal on social issues. I'm a libertarian myself. Here's a link if you'd like to read about libertarianism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Libertarian
Aha, so it was said. :P Carry on.

Julie
14 Feb 06,, 03:31
Since when am I a right-wing conservative? Says the Democratic woman with confederate sympathies from a red state who opposes abortion and gay rights to the Independent male who supports abortion and gay rights and more enviromental regulations. :PI don't oppose abortion, remember? And I thought you were a moderate....uh...something. :redface:

Horrido
14 Feb 06,, 05:13
I don't oppose abortion, remember? And I thought you were a moderate....uh...something. :redface:

Anarcho-capitalist, which is the exact opposite of such great leaders as FDR, Hitler, and Stalin (and, yes, FDR DOES align with the other two, just not to the same extreme).

Confed999
14 Feb 06,, 06:55
Anarcho-capitalist
We should start a club. ;)

Horrido
14 Feb 06,, 07:31
We should start a club. ;)

Yeah, but who would lead the business meetings? :confused:

Parihaka
14 Feb 06,, 10:10
We should start a club. ;)

Yeah, but who would lead the business meetings?
I will, and my fees are very reasonable. Considering.

Confed999
14 Feb 06,, 20:32
Yeah, but who would lead the business meetings? :confused:
Couldn't have meetings, the Anarchist part would have everyone showing up in different places at different times. Honestly, that's the best part, no friggin' business meetings.

Parihaka
14 Feb 06,, 20:37
Couldn't have meetings, the Anarchist part would have everyone showing up in different places at different times. Honestly, that's the best part, no friggin' business meetings.
true, but the capitalist part would mean I'd still charge you for it :biggrin:

Confed999
14 Feb 06,, 20:40
true, but the capitalist part would mean I'd still charge you for it :biggrin:
Nah, nobody would be in charge to sign the contract. All the capitalist part would do is ensure a cheap ride to the meeting. ;)

HistoricalDavid
22 Feb 06,, 18:35
I doubt WAB provides a statistically accurate cross-section of the American population.

Nevertheless, I am one of the most pro-American Britons I know, so it doesn't matter too much. :)

I don't like how it gets me so many strange looks nowadays. :(


Anarcho-capitalist

If I take that literally, it is a contradiction in terms. Anarchism removes the possibility of the rule of law pertaining to contracts and individual rights, and so on and hence makes capitalism in its best sense impossible. How can it work without a supreme authority to enforce contracts and protect rights? Any and all anarchism would simply turn into a jungle where the physically most powerful always wins, and the lack of authority to implement a system means there is in fact no difference between anarcho-communism, anarcho-libertarianism, anarcho-primitivism, and so on; there is only anarchism, pure and simple.

Now if you were to take anarcho-capitalist as a synonym for 'minarchist', that's an entirely different matter, where the only functions of government are police, military, courts and prisons. That is about as capitalist as one can get. :tongue:

Ellopian
07 Apr 06,, 15:36
Who cares anyway...?

HistoricalDavid
07 Apr 06,, 17:46
Judging by the poll's numbers and the number of posts, quite a few.

Gautam
07 Apr 06,, 21:19
Here in the UK everyone refers to Americans as being dumb & Fat.

Well personally I always held Americans in High regard, on the other hand I have so many relatives in the US & family friends and they are not dumb so was hard to comprehend Americans being dumb.

Having said that I have come across quite a few humble Americans on WAB. All in all my preception remains what it was before I joined WAB.

TopHatter
07 Apr 06,, 21:41
Who cares anyway...?
You really havent read the entire thread have you? :rolleyes:


Here in the UK everyone refers to Americans as being dumb & Fat.
You forgot "happy"....as in the expression "Fat, dumb and happy" :biggrin:

Thanks for your kind words about us. :)
It's not easy being the world's only imperialist war-mongering capitalist pig superpower :redface:

Gautam
07 Apr 06,, 21:53
You really havent read the entire thread have you? :rolleyes:


You forgot "happy"....as in the expression "Fat, dumb and happy" :biggrin:

Thanks for your kind words about us. :)
It's not easy being the world's only imperialist war-mongering capitalist pig superpower :redface:


Personally I feel that it is nothing 2 do with the American Foreign Policy. See most of the times Americans are dissed in Europe is when it is something 2 do with world affairs.

Europeans I am afraid (Refering here to the French & Spanish) still live in the 19th century when they were the superpowers.
They speak about peace as if they never shed a single drop of blood.

At the end of the day this all is a messy business & if it wasn't American than somoene else would be doing that work.

Whoever would have been in America's shoes would have been doing that.

Anyways according to a recent poll India is one country where 70% support or like americans, very highly proportionate in comparison to many other countries. :biggrin:

Julie
06 Dec 06,, 02:26
One year later, and according to the polls, we haven't influenced anyone? :redface: Wow, we need to work on that I guess. ;)

Trooth
06 Dec 06,, 15:30
My view of Americans is based upon my contacts, mainly from work but some of whom have become friends. Having worked both sides of the Atlantic my position before was that Americans have a huge amount of enthusiasm and are motiviated to work hard at any task, but do not care to be troubled by "local differences".

Consistently I have encountered situations where their assumption will be based on "how things are at home" and upon discovering it is different equate that with wrong and that therefore the locals just need to be shown the light and they will want to change.

On this board most of the Americans come across as well informed and articulate, but i also see the same trait (different = wrong) on here from some posters.

glyn
06 Dec 06,, 17:23
On this board most of the Americans come across as well informed and articulate, but i also see the same trait (different = wrong) on here from some posters.

What? Can I believe my eyes when I read those words? Yes, I bloody well can as my view is identical to yours! Some will take umbrage and may even suggest collusion. Let them if they so wish, but 'tisn't so. As ever it is the vocal minority that gets noticed - what the railway companies know as the squeaky wheel syndrome where everyone hears the noisy one even though all the other wheels are perfectly alright. Many people rightly or wrongly (mostly the latter) have passed unkind criticism of Americans by saying "But they're so arrogant/overbearing/loud (delete whichever fails to apply) in their opinions that they sound disrespectful and rude". These include people in the media.

Julie
06 Dec 06,, 17:49
Horrible, isn't it? :frown:

Parihaka
06 Dec 06,, 18:12
I used to think pretty poorly of the lot of you, but now I think maybe one or two are ok. Still pretty dubious about the poms though.

Julie
06 Dec 06,, 18:17
I used to think pretty poorly of the lot of you, but now I think maybe one or two are ok. Still pretty dubious about the poms though.Well Pari, I happen to think you are the coolest thing since air conditioning. :biggrin:

kams
06 Dec 06,, 18:25
I voted for 'My opinion has not changed'.

Let me explain.

Before I landed here in 2003, I used to think of Americans as arrogant and overbearing. I used to also believe that you guys don't know much about anything beyond your own door step there by most of the times misjudged others.

However continued interaction with my colleagues and Neighbors over past years have convinced me that I was wrong on many of my perception. Turning point came when my neighbor argued with me over 'Women rights in East' and he quoted extensively from Chanakyas Arthashastra (plenty of beer flowed that night:) ).

So when I say WAB has not changed my opinion on Americans, I mean it in a positive way.

Parihaka
06 Dec 06,, 18:29
Well Pari, I happen to think you are the coolest thing since air conditioning. :biggrin:
Why Ma'am, you've made me blush...:redface:

glyn
06 Dec 06,, 19:01
I used to think pretty poorly of the lot of you, but now I think maybe one or two are ok. Still pretty dubious about the poms though.

Aha! Harry Parka is back to his industrial strength creeping mode again! :biggrin:

kams
06 Dec 06,, 19:34
Aha! Harry Parka is back to his industrial strength creeping mode again! :biggrin:

:biggrin: You have to admit that he stood his ground in the 'other thread'.

Parihaka
06 Dec 06,, 20:46
:biggrin: You have to admit that he stood his ground in the 'other thread'.

Hah! They got kicked out of their colonies by a bunch of natives, had their 'superpower' status striped by the Americans, and now you expect him to admit he's been humiliated in the subtle art of repartee by a colonial?:biggrin:

glyn
06 Dec 06,, 21:28
Hah! They got kicked out of their colonies by a bunch of natives, had their 'superpower' status striped by the Americans, and now you expect him to admit he's been humiliated in the subtle art of repartee by a colonial?:biggrin:

Striped, Harry? You mean contrasting colours I expect, but you failed to identify which.:rolleyes: I'm glad we are no longer a superpower. Kipling wrote (IIRC) 'If blood be the price of Admiralty, Lord God we have paid in full'. In poetic mood let me relate the famous if nameless New Zealand epic:

It rained, and rained, and rained
The rate of fall was well maintained.
And when the tracks turned into bogs
It started raining cats and dogs.

After a drought of half an hour
We had a most refreshing shower.
And then the strangest thing of all
A steady rain began to fall.

The next day too was mostly dry
Excepting that torrent from the sky
Soaking the party to the skin
And after that the rain set in.

Parihaka
06 Dec 06,, 23:55
Striped, Harry? You mean contrasting colours I expect, but you failed to identify which.:rolleyes: I'm glad we are no longer a superpower. Kipling wrote (IIRC) 'If blood be the price of Admiralty, Lord God we have paid in full'. In poetic mood let me relate the famous if nameless New Zealand epic:

It rained, and rained, and rained
The rate of fall was well maintained.
And when the tracks turned into bogs
It started raining cats and dogs.

After a drought of half an hour
We had a most refreshing shower.
And then the strangest thing of all
A steady rain began to fall.

The next day too was mostly dry
Excepting that torrent from the sky
Soaking the party to the skin
And after that the rain set in.

Perhaps I should have said stripped of your stripes:tongue:

As for the weather, whether the weather we weather weathers our withers, the rain that reigns is reined by the wind that winds in weary ways you've not had wind of...

by the bye, hows that flooding going in the Princes playground?

glyn
07 Dec 06,, 18:52
Perhaps I should have said stripped of your stripes:tongue:

As for the weather, whether the weather we weather weathers our withers, the rain that reigns is reined by the wind that winds in weary ways you've not had wind of...


Poor Harry. I have heard of your wind problem and I sympathise. It must be terrible to be a martyr to flatulence!

by the bye, hows that flooding going in the Princes playground?

Er, of which prince, and which playground do you speak, great polymath?

Parihaka
07 Dec 06,, 21:35
Er, of which prince, and which playground do you speak, great polymath?

Aren't you, as an inhabitant of Cornwall, the property of the Duke of Cornwall (a.k.a. Prince Charles), and kept to provide him with a private income?:biggrin:

Parihaka
07 Dec 06,, 21:42
In all seriousness it's not the wind (currently about 70kmph) and the accompanying airborne irrigation system, it's the earthquakes that really keep things interesting.
Both myself and her indoors are avid fans of such British programmes as 'Grand designs' and 'Location, location location'. Whenever they're renovating those old barns or whatever, I'm astounded that you're allowed to just pile a few rocks on top of each other using nothing but gravity-line and call it a wall. One decent 5 or above earthquake and you're all camping out for the forseeable future.

glyn
07 Dec 06,, 22:18
In all seriousness it's not the wind (currently about 70kmph) and the accompanying airborne irrigation system, it's the earthquakes that really keep things interesting.
Both myself and her indoors are avid fans of such British programmes as 'Grand designs' and 'Location, location location'. Whenever they're renovating those old barns or whatever, I'm astounded that you're allowed to just pile a few rocks on top of each other using nothing but gravity-line and call it a wall. One decent 5 or above earthquake and you're all camping out for the forseeable future.

I have never heard of earthquakes being taken into account when designing for building regulations in the UK. Perhaps there is something buried deep in the regs that covers it, but it's certainly not spelled out as such.
The UK is in an area of low seismic activity. In my case (as I may have mentioned) my house was built in 1744 and is constructed of cut 'blue elvin' granite blocks. The walls are over 2 feet thick, the roof timbers are oak and pitch pine and the roof covering is scantle slate. I doubt if there is much in the way of foundations, but as it has been standing for over a quarter of a millenium I'm fairly sanguine the structure will see me out. I have often thought when visiting foreign parts how flimsy their houses seem by comparison.

glyn
07 Dec 06,, 22:27
Aren't you, as an inhabitant of Cornwall, the property of the Duke of Cornwall (a.k.a. Prince Charles), and kept to provide him with a private income?:biggrin:

Almost true. The title Duke of Cornwall was created in c. the 1300s and much Cornish land given to him as the Kings first born son so that he would have an income. This was thought a spiffing wheeze by the King, the newly created Duke, and Parliament as they wouldn't have to fund the Monarchs traditionally profligate successor. Those who didn't think it such a good idea were the Cornish people who, surprise, surprise were not consulted.

glyn
07 Dec 06,, 22:31
[QUOTE=parihaka;306706]In all seriousness it's not the wind (currently about 70kmph) and the accompanying airborne irrigation system, it's the earthquakes that really keep things interesting.

Full marks for the adroit avoidance in mentioning your flatulence. Take yesterday off, my fine fellow! :biggrin:

Parihaka
07 Dec 06,, 22:45
I have often thought when visiting foreign parts how flimsy their houses seem by comparison.

I know you've been to NZ so you would have noticed the vast majority are built of wood, if there is brick or stone it's tied at close intervals to the real support structure. My house is built of wood with a plywood and tin cladding. Sounds light doesn't it, but looks can be deceiving.
The piles are roughly 200 20ft or longer railway tracks driven into the hillside, capped with reinforced concrete stringers on which 25 - 30cm width tanalised (chemically preserved) tree trunks are bolted via steel plates embedded in the concrete. These go up through the first two stories of the house and are cross-braced on each level. Above that it's standard cross-braced 2x4 construction.
As long as the cladding is replaced every 50 to 80 years the house should survive as long as those beautiful oak beam structures you guys do so well.

Parihaka
07 Dec 06,, 22:46
Almost true. The title Duke of Cornwall was created in c. the 1300s and much Cornish land given to him as the Kings first born son so that he would have an income. This was thought a spiffing wheeze by the King, the newly created Duke, and Parliament as they wouldn't have to fund the Monarchs traditionally profligate successor. Those who didn't think it such a good idea were the Cornish people who, surprise, surprise were not consulted.

Being royalty means never having to pretend you care;)

Parihaka
07 Dec 06,, 22:49
[QUOTE=parihaka;306706]In all seriousness it's not the wind (currently about 70kmph) and the accompanying airborne irrigation system, it's the earthquakes that really keep things interesting.

Full marks for the adroit avoidance in mentioning your flatulence. Take yesterday off, my fine fellow! :biggrin:

I did mention my flatulence, that's the 70kmph bit

gunnut
07 Dec 06,, 22:50
Aren't you, as an inhabitant of Cornwall, the property of the Duke of Cornwall (a.k.a. Prince Charles), and kept to provide him with a private income?:biggrin:

I thought Charlie is the "Prince of Wales?"

gunnut
07 Dec 06,, 22:53
I have never heard of earthquakes being taken into account when designing for building regulations in the UK. Perhaps there is something buried deep in the regs that covers it, but it's certainly not spelled out as such.
The UK is in an area of low seismic activity. In my case (as I may have mentioned) my house was built in 1744 and is constructed of cut 'blue elvin' granite blocks. The walls are over 2 feet thick, the roof timbers are oak and pitch pine and the roof covering is scantle slate. I doubt if there is much in the way of foundations, but as it has been standing for over a quarter of a millenium I'm fairly sanguine the structure will see me out. I have often thought when visiting foreign parts how flimsy their houses seem by comparison.

You will laugh at how flimsy my house is. Built of 2x4 lumber, nails, and dry wall, it's pretty much the standard type of 2 story residential building typically found in southern California. But grab this house and your house with a big hand and then give them both a little shake...:biggrin:

Parihaka
07 Dec 06,, 23:00
I thought Charlie is the "Prince of Wales?"

The British royals are renowned for pinching anything not nailed down, hence he's the Duke of Cornwall and the Prince of Wales. The Duke of Buckinghams palace is another fine example. He probably owns half of Scotland as well.

Trooth
08 Dec 06,, 00:44
In all seriousness it's not the wind (currently about 70kmph) and the accompanying airborne irrigation system, it's the earthquakes that really keep things interesting.
Both myself and her indoors are avid fans of such British programmes as 'Grand designs' and 'Location, location location'. Whenever they're renovating those old barns or whatever, I'm astounded that you're allowed to just pile a few rocks on top of each other using nothing but gravity-line and call it a wall. One decent 5 or above earthquake and you're all camping out for the forseeable future.

I once had some californians over working with me in an office by a very large bridge in South East england. They refused to use it (or the nearby tunnel) because of fears of Earthquakes.

"What earthquakes?", I said, "I would be more scared because Essex is your destination."

glyn
08 Dec 06,, 09:28
I thought Charlie is the "Prince of Wales?"

Quite right, so he is, but as you are beginning to see he has a host of other titles to play with, including Lord of the Isles.

Parihaka
08 Dec 06,, 09:41
Quite right, so he is, but as you are beginning to see he has a host of other titles to play with, including Lord of the Isles.

Ah the scum sucker. I'd bet that would be the Western Isles, would it?

glyn
08 Dec 06,, 14:49
I know you've been to NZ so you would have noticed the vast majority are built of wood, if there is brick or stone it's tied at close intervals to the real support structure. My house is built of wood with a plywood and tin cladding. Sounds light doesn't it, but looks can be deceiving.
The piles are roughly 200 20ft or longer railway tracks driven into the hillside, capped with reinforced concrete stringers on which 25 - 30cm width tanalised (chemically preserved) tree trunks are bolted via steel plates embedded in the concrete. These go up through the first two stories of the house and are cross-braced on each level. Above that it's standard cross-braced 2x4 construction.
As long as the cladding is replaced every 50 to 80 years the house should survive as long as those beautiful oak beam structures you guys do so well.

I saw quite a few dwellings on steep hillsides with visible 'stilts', but others with no obvious supports. My friend with whom I stayed lives in Maungaraki (and works in Wellington). His house is large, sited on a hilltop and consists of what were 2 wooden dwellings which originally were miles apart. Moving entire houses several miles by road is AFAIK unknown in this country although not uncommon elsewhere.

omon
28 Dec 06,, 16:05
as a constraction engenier, i'll tell you houses here in us are build like crap(most of them) solid stone houses are very rare, and old, when i came in us i was shocked how crappy houses are, but there is a very good reason why, the price of the unit itself, and insurance, in NY you would pay more for stone(solid stone, not just facebrick) house. they may not last 250 years, but who needs it, most houses are demolished and rebuilt every 20-30 years,and in NYC in 90% cases when you buy house, the land costs much more than a house itself. unless you have a great chance of a truck raming into your house, there is no need to have a solid stone structure. even than some houses look like a castle, but built with sheetrock, and plywood, and 2 by4.

glyn
28 Dec 06,, 16:22
as a constraction engenier, i'll tell you houses here in us are build like crap(most of them) solid stone houses are very rare, and old, when i came in us i was shocked how crappy houses are, but there is a very good reason why, the price of the unit itself, and insurance, in NY you would pay more for stone(solid stone, not just facebrick) house. they may not last 250 years, but who needs it, most houses are demolished and rebuilt every 20-30 years,and in NYC in 90% cases when you buy house, the land costs much more than a house itself. unless you have a great chance of a truck raming into your house, there is no need to have a solid stone structure. even than some houses look like a castle, but built with sheetrock, and plywood, and 2 by4.

I have noticed in the New World on my visits that houses are erected with surprising speed. They do not seem to be all that robust, but I'm sure they do the job. When my old farmhouse was built, it was the fashion to make them like fortresses. Having a granite house is claimed to be cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter. It is also strong enough to withstand musket balls! There must have been a folk memory of the Civil War in the minds of the builders.

Trooth
29 Dec 06,, 12:50
I have noticed in the New World on my visits that houses are erected with surprising speed. They do not seem to be all that robust, but I'm sure they do the job. When my old farmhouse was built, it was the fashion to make them like fortresses. Having a granite house is claimed to be cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter. It is also strong enough to withstand musket balls! There must have been a folk memory of the Civil War in the minds of the builders.

Also, people build with what they have available. "Down your way" there is quite a bit of stone and as the forests "receeded" (cleared for farming / hunting) from our green and pleasant land that made rock a relatively cheap building material.

Not sure where you are relative to the coast, but of course Cornwall also likes a good bit of wind and a foot thick wall will sort that out!

TopHatter
29 Dec 06,, 19:23
I once had some californians over working with me in an office by a very large bridge in South East england. They refused to use it (or the nearby tunnel) because of fears of Earthquakes.

"What earthquakes?", I said, "I would be more scared because Essex is your destination."
On a recent trip back to my native Chicago, I (semi)feigned a shocked attitude at the lack of hurricane shutter fixtures and other such accouterments, opining "These'll never last the next hurricane season".

My parents barely rolled their eyes, being all too familiar with my love of absurdist humor :redface:

omon
29 Dec 06,, 22:29
21% Dixie. I'm a dandy Yankee Doodle.
Is it good or bad?

Canmoore
30 Dec 06,, 00:40
There are too many republican over here @ WAB to come to any conclusion. Lets hear some democrats voices :biggrin:.

I think we all scare them away

Julie
30 Dec 06,, 01:26
I think we all scare them awayYep, straight to the voting booths. :biggrin:

I'm a Democrat, and been at WAB since 2003. It takes alot to scare me. ;)

Draconion
01 Jan 07,, 16:46
I do think higher about American now, but then I guess this population with which we interact is very small.

I mean you go to any online chat room, you got crazy American who are ignorant, uneducated and chat as if drunk to the core.

Most of the collegeoers I have chatted with didnot know the diffrence between sh!t and Shat!;)

dalem
02 Jan 07,, 00:02
I mean you go to any online chat room, you got crazy American who are ignorant, uneducated and chat as if drunk to the core.


Sounds more like Australians.

-dale

dave lukins
14 Jan 07,, 22:03
Offcourse my opinion about Americans has changed a bit. But I can't say if positiv or negativ. It just has changed because of interacting with each other and knowing the mentality better. And I have to determine that the American mentality is a bit different from the German's. What's positiv in a few ways though.
I used to be indecisive,but now I'm not so sure!!!

gunnut
14 Jan 07,, 22:23
I used to be indecisive,but now I'm not so sure!!!

So a definite maybe?

jame$thegreat
15 Jan 07,, 01:05
I myself am an American born and raised and have only left this country for a whole of 2 days, however I can see how people from other countries see us. I myself find myself angered by Americans who are "will it be on the test?" types. Perhaps some of you know what i mean, people who only need to know what they need to and nothing else, people who only learn to get by rather than learn about things that may be interesting. Ignorant people. Unfortunatly alot of Americans are, though I wouldn't agree with that stereotyping there are alot that are.

Ray
15 Jan 07,, 04:55
Yes, there are too many Republicans out here.

At least one type of Americans are being understood! :)

percentage_plyr
15 Jan 07,, 05:03
I myself am an American born and raised and have only left this country for a whole of 2 days, however I can see how people from other countries see us. I myself find myself angered by Americans who are "will it be on the test?" types. Perhaps some of you know what i mean, people who only need to know what they need to and nothing else, people who only learn to get by rather than learn about things that may be interesting. Ignorant people. Unfortunatly alot of Americans are, though I wouldn't agree with that stereotyping there are alot that are.

if its any consolation....those types are the predominant ones even in India. Its irritating as hell, but wat to do, they find the neighbourhood mall more interesting than Musharraf!

Officer of Engineers
15 Jan 07,, 05:43
And how does India like Celine Dion?

Ray
15 Jan 07,, 06:34
Colonel,

Quite popular, I presume.

I am a dated Beatles fan, but I believe my daughter enjoys Celine's songs!

Parihaka
15 Jan 07,, 06:40
I am a dated Beatles fan,

There are places I'll remember
all my life though some have changed,
Some forever not for better,
some have gone and some remain.

Karthik
15 Jan 07,, 07:22
And how does India like Celine Dion?

Oh her popularity rose here in India after her song 'My heart will go on' was released.

'Thats the way it is' , 'I'm your angel' and 'Because you loved me' were atop Channel V India's pop charts for quite a while.

She sings well. Kickass stuff.

Trooth
16 Jan 07,, 01:19
I myself am an American born and raised and have only left this country for a whole of 2 days.

The US is great, but if you get the chance, get out there. It is a wonderful world!

brokensickle
16 Jan 07,, 07:29
I had american friends even before I joined this forum. Most of them are New yorkers and remarkably well educated and democrats. But I haven't found the republicans on this forum too offensive either apart from the occasional head in the sand approach. Overall it has been great. You have the same proportion of good guys and a$$holes as any other country does. :biggrin: :tongue: :biggrin: :tongue: :biggrin:

Conservatives don't have their heads in the sand. They are paying attention.:cool:

Liberals on the other hand have their heads planted painfully somewhere else.:biggrin: So it would seem.


Ivan

Commando
16 Jan 07,, 12:14
Americans are extremely nice people. I love Americans and am happy Australia has them as their best ally. But you can't judge an individual by their nationality. Each nation has there own problems in alchaholics, drug addicts and people living in poverty, the rich etc. People from different castes of fortunes act diferently. Not because of there country but because of their own self inflicted conditions of life. Do not judge a person on their country, but on their own merits. Personally i love Americans like people of every other country and the WAB has only improved my perception of them.

dave lukins
16 Feb 07,, 23:39
And how does India like Celine Dion?on pitta bread with ginger chutney:biggrin:

Draconion
17 Feb 07,, 08:43
:rolleyes:

We also like our slums and the cows in the middle of the road and the gurus which roam around the country and we just love foriegners talking out of thier butt!!;) :biggrin:

Zhang Fei
17 Feb 07,, 23:33
Anoop, because you are not a US citizen, you are not permitted to possess a firearm, nor is anyone allowed to provide you with one, in the US without a federal permit to do so. Otherwise, it is a federal offense and a felony. There are some exceptions, however, depending on the circumstances. I would make it a point to ask the local gun range, contact the NRA website, and perhaps even go to a local police station (who will hopefully be friendly and helpful, depends on where you are and who you're dealing with) for information to keep things as legal and kosher as possible.I think you mean US citizen or green card holder (i.e. permanent resident).

brak
18 Feb 07,, 00:23
maybe we can ship her off to India and be rid of her.:biggrin:

antimony
07 Apr 08,, 18:36
I have been in the US for about 2 years now, far longer than I have joined this board. I would say that my opinions of Americans have not changed a lot based on what I have seen here, though I have realized that there may be more republicans on earth than I would have thought:rolleyes: . This realization primarily arises since in my daily life I interact mostly with people of a more liberal mindset (I work in Seattle).

I believe America is the greatest nation on earth, not because of their fancy satellites and impressive weaponry, but because of their sensitivity towards freedom and civil rights. I was amazed to see simple things like disabled access everywhere (lowered pavements, braille scripts and so on). Another thing that was amazing to me is the fanatical protection of freedom of speech, regardless of how offensive that speech might be. This, to me, is the hallmark of a country that takes the concept of freedom seriously.

I have seen a lot of respect for life and liberty, and I can truly appreciate this

That does not mean that all of it rosy. It seems that the respect for life and liberty is sometimes only meant for Americans and others who do not share this ideal may go to hell. I am particularly turned off by the insistence of some americans that they know what is best for the entire world and if we do not agree, then we should be put away, for our own good. Another irritating trait is their constant reminding of how much they have "helped" through aid (or whatever). A country that accepts help/ aid has a lower esteem anyway, and constantly drilling the thought of how grateful they should be to America only serves to alienate people. Perhaps America should promote its softer face abraod, rather than relying on the Gunboat Diplomacy track that she seems to favour; maybe a return to Big stick diplomacy, with the stick held behind the back:) :cool:

Coming back to topic, I believe that WAB dispelled any remaining notions of American ignorance of the rest of the world. However this is probably mostly due to the particular type of forum that this is. However, in the place where I work (seattle) people seem to be quite informed about other parts of the world. I would not know about the rest of America though.

Ray
11 Apr 08,, 11:41
The more I exist on WAB, the more I like Americans!

My opinion has changed.

Call it non governmental brainwashing, if you will. :))

Nasty chaps, these WABbers! ;)

ned kelly
11 Apr 08,, 11:55
I believe America is the greatest nation on earth,

i am happy for yanks to go on thinking they are the best nation on earth...:tongue:

but seriously it hasn't changed it one way or the other...having travelled there i enjoyed the people and the country immensely....

Big K
11 Apr 08,, 12:16
the more i exist on WAB i've seen how effective are the misinterpretations, desinformation to change the mind of respectable people...

dave lukins
11 Apr 08,, 20:48
I think my views have changed for every country on the WAB. All for the better;)

glyn
11 Apr 08,, 21:02
the more i exist on WAB i've seen how effective are the misinterpretations, desinformation to change the mind of respectable people...

Respectable people? Haven't you read the posts of furkensturker and Lukins then?:confused: Nobody has ever called them respectable in my hearing! :))

Big K
11 Apr 08,, 22:32
Respectable people? Haven't you read the posts of furkensturker and Lukins then?:confused: Nobody has ever called them respectable in my hearing! :))

ok sir, give me a break :)

as a guest i have to be polite right?? :P :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

glyn
11 Apr 08,, 22:43
ok sir, give me a break :)

as a guest i have to be polite right?? :P :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

To the rest of us yes but for those two scoundrels no! :biggrin:

Big K
11 Apr 08,, 22:50
To the rest of us yes but for those two scoundrels no! :biggrin:

:)) no no, really this site is addictive and all the members are worth to respect :)