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Ray
27 Nov 05,, 23:48
Monday, November 28, 2005 E-Mail this article to a friend Printer Friendly Version

Biggest mosque for London Olympics


LONDON: An Islamic group is proposing to build Western Europe’s biggest mosque, with room for 40,000 worshippers, in east London in time for the 2012 Olympic Games, reported the Sunday Times. Tablighi Jamaat envisions a futuristic design for the three-storey mosque, with wind turbines taking the place of minarets and an overall capacity of 70,000 when surrounding buildings are taken into account. “It would be something never seen before in this country,” Abdul Khalique, a senior member of Tablighi Jamaat, was quoted as saying. The mosque would be a hub for Muslim competitors and spectators at the London games as well as British headquarters for Tablighi Jamaat, a professedly apolitical group that was founded in India during the British Raj. Besides the mosque itself, the complex - with a distinctive sweeping roof - would include a garden, school, library and accommodation for visiting worshippers. Islamic calligraphy would grace the walls and ceilings. “It will be more than a mosque. The idea behind it is to break down barriers,” London and Barcelona-based architect Ali Mangera, who is designing the project, was quoted as saying. Officials in the east London borough of Newham said the planning application for the project - which could cost more than £100 million ($171 million) - would be finalised over the coming year. afp

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2005\11\28\story_28-11-2005_pg7_4

There are adequate mosques to harbour the Islamic Olympians for their spiritual solace and so one wonders what is the reason reason for this gigantic mosque.

It will show case Islam and will be a landmark that can hardly be missed. Hence, it will be a statement in a land that is not Islamic and indeed would go a long way to spread the munificence of Islam.

However, the idea of having such a large showpiece in the wake of the London Bombing would not go well with the British public at large, even if it maybe in the interest of the "secular" credential of Blair government.

The Tablighi organisation has been founded in India but its HQ is now in Raiwind, Pakistan and it has been in the forefront of spreading Islam in Europe and the USA. It is believed many of the convertees in the US and Europe have done exceeding well in the ranks of the Taliban.

Some links on the Tablighi organisation.

www.meforum.org/article/686 - 43k - 26 Nov 2005

www.rediff.com/news/2003/jul/14us.htm

www.stanford.edu/group/SHR/5-1/text/metcalf.html

www.islamicacademy.org/html/Articles/English/Tableeghee%20Jma'at.htm

www.islamicacademy.org/html/Articles/English/Tableeghee%20Jma'at-Ahadis.htm

www.renaissance.com.pk/Augq72y3.html

Leader
28 Nov 05,, 00:15
What would Londonistan be like with Europe's biggest Mosque?

giggs88
28 Nov 05,, 00:34
Eurabia. Here we come.

indianguy4u
28 Nov 05,, 06:38
Instead if same monies could have being spent on giving moslem youths in britain technical training so as to earn a living. Atleast french live situation will be averted. As it is education stds & jobs of moslems youths are lowest of all immigrant communities.

platinum786
29 Nov 05,, 22:25
Excuse me, become muslim and british before you comment on our lives.

If we have the capacity to make this masjid why not? If we have muslims that need to pray in this masjid then why not? For the olypics many other excesses will be done, if one helps the muslim community why is that a negativity.

the organisaiton behind the idea....i'm not a fan of, they vary from what i consider true islam, but to each his own.


as for the lame arguement of british people hating it or disliking it, that myth was dispelled by the incredible response by the british public post the london tube attacks, nobody made a comment out of place.

This is not India where you pretend to be a democracy and a secular state tehm promote the hindu rule....this is the birth place of true democracy as we know it today with secuarlsim, Britian, indeed it is Great Britain, to keep in touch with the olympic theme.

giggs88
29 Nov 05,, 22:27
Excuse me, become muslim and british before you comment on our lives.
Nahhhhhh, I'll pass on both. Especially the first one.

platinum786
29 Nov 05,, 22:36
don't you support man united?! i thought you where from london, 90% of united supporters are!!

damn, i just noticed, your american.....wow!!! an american that supports the same club as me....lol....an american that watches football!!

giggs88
29 Nov 05,, 22:55
Yes, I do like Man utd.

But I'm not from there.

I'm not some person that jumps on the bandwagon though. I've been a fan of MU for a long time.

I payed a crazy ass amount of money to go watch them in the Giants Stadium against Juventus. I couldn't get out of there until 6am the next morning. It was THAT packed. (the game ended at 10 pm)

Giggsy scored. :)

As did Scholes, Ole, and Forlan (I think).

platinum786
29 Nov 05,, 23:43
oh on tour in the states....never bother with those matches.

when i was first introduced to football i chose teams on thier kit....then i started to understand football and how it's played, and eventaully chose united as a team, as our local side derby are losers, and boring losers at that too....

really really boooorrrinnnggg....

anyway, my point was that it is unfair to comment on the lives of young muslims in the UK without being one.

money is now in need, motivationa nd a support structure to keep boys on the right track is. Grils don't have this issue, those girls fortunate enough to have parents clever enough to let them become educated are very determinted to learn, it's stupid boys that have this issue.

myself included. I'm studying Computer Science, My younger Sisters are going Pharmacy and Medicine....my younger brother, i think he's going to be 30 and still in college....

for some reason or the other, boys don't take the chances, they mature later, and silp of the rails usually in school.....that's where people get into crime and drugs, parents are often working 12 odds hours a day and incapable of providing the adequete support....schools, they tend to stereotype.

i can start a whole new topic on that if you all want me too...this si about the olympics, and the great waste of tax payers money associated with it.

giggs88
29 Nov 05,, 23:51
Weren't Derby in the Premiership a few years back?

platinum786
30 Nov 05,, 00:33
ages ago....like when i was too young to remember stats, like 5 years ago nearly...

when we where good, we where good, had some top players and played good football, but a racist manager soon made sure that players where not rewarded for thier ability and one big players get on the big stage they don't take crap.

jim smith was the demise of derby county in recent years, a good footbaal brain, but a racist...

foreign players who added class into the side where not given the pay packets they deserved and thus left...

ZFBoxcar
30 Nov 05,, 03:19
If we have the capacity to make this masjid why not? If we have muslims that need to pray in this masjid then why not? For the olypics many other excesses will be done, if one helps the muslim community why is that a negativity.


I agree, people should have the right to do whatever they want with their property as long as they are not infringing on anybody else's rights. And yeah, everybody does go overboard with the olympics.

Leader
30 Nov 05,, 04:43
Excuse me, become muslim and british before you comment on our lives.

I'll pass, but I'll feel free to continue to point out ******** where I see it.


This is not India where you pretend to be a democracy and a secular state tehm promote the hindu rule....this is the birth place of true democracy as we know it today with secuarlsim, Britian, indeed it is Great Britain, to keep in touch with the olympic theme.

hmmm...Pakistan. Enough said.

platinum786
30 Nov 05,, 10:29
ugh...d!ck head i live in the UK....England....the place with a queen....where most of you potato immgrants came from....it's near London....

Ray
30 Nov 05,, 14:15
Plat,

I am with you that it is unfair to comment on Moslems without being a Moslem.

Nothing could be more true.

However, the point that you may like to consider that just as you feel that it is unfair for non Moslems to comment or impose their ideas on Moslems, likewise the non Moslems too feel violated when the Moslems impose their ideas on non Moslems and that too in a country which is officially non Moslem or secular.

In Britain, like it or not, non Moslems of Asian origin faces a lot of hostility (latent or covert, if you wish, in most cases) in the UK, just because of the London underground bombings aftermath.

Getting even a tourist visa to visit the US is difficult these days after 9/11.
And after getting one, you are strip searched when you arrive in the US! These surely are not very pleasant memories to carry back, but then what can one say if the Americans have become paranoid after their showpiece WTC collapsed through a real mesmerising, special effect type of an act, which I thought was only true in Hollywood movies. And imagine it - planned by a Bedou with his shumagh/ ghoutra. :eek:

All this humiliation on non Moslems, all because of 9/11 and the London and Madrid bombing and not to speak of the non stop terrorism worldwide.......all for merely 72 "white grapes" ("hur" Aramic translation)! :tongue:

Sad, but true!

Leader
30 Nov 05,, 21:42
ugh...d!ck head i live in the UK....England....the place with a queen....where most of you potato immgrants came from....it's near London....

You're post has been reported. Enjoy :tongue:

Praxus
30 Nov 05,, 23:24
Islam is evil.

platinum786
30 Nov 05,, 23:30
You're post has been reported. Enjoy :tongue:

excellent....obviously nobody cared....especially after you called my nationality and religion **** whatever abusive term that was.

admin probably felt you deserved that comment.

platinum786
30 Nov 05,, 23:36
Ray, my comment was probably harsh, but to be honest, there are several thick skulled individuals who are not fit to be in a debate, they where directed at whoever wanted to hear them and interpret as whatever they wanted.

You heard them and still made you PoV, suggesting the density of your head is lower than that of other members, i won't continue on this silly line of talk.

I think opening this masjid would be an excellent opertunity, if it was to be an embassy of Islam, to the rest of the UK. Right now the muslim community makes masjids for it's own use soley, yet churches are used as community halls etc...

This masjid should be a musuem of islam, an open place for tourists as well as those who wish simply to pray. Why do i want poeple coming to the masjid, do i secretly want to convert everyone, no...i want everyone to be able to see us for what we really are, not what 19 men wanting a bunch of white grapes portrayed us as.

Leader
30 Nov 05,, 23:41
excellent....obviously nobody cared....especially after you called my nationality and religion **** whatever abusive term that was.

WTF? No I didn't.


admin probably felt you deserved that comment.

ROFL

Leader
30 Nov 05,, 23:45
".i want everyone to be able to see us for what we really are, not what 19 men wanting a bunch of white grapes portrayed us as."

19? I guess the freedom fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan don't count. Neither does OBL apparently.

platinum786
01 Dec 05,, 00:06
I'll pass, but I'll feel free to continue to point out ******** where I see it.



that quote there, you intended to say that my religious beliefs or nationality, or perhaps even both, where "****", whatever taht is, and that you intended to depict it as that, without even knowing who or what these elements are.

platinum786
01 Dec 05,, 00:12
there you go again, atempting to stereotype 1 billion muslims thru the actions of what say at the most a million active militants/terrorists....whatever you want to call them.

You are depecting 1000 people by the actions of 1.

Russia's leaders are eveil people, have been in the past too, the same can be said of Nazi Germany...does that mean that all germans and Russians are evil?

You no longer make those stereotypes when it suits you.

The only nation to actually attack you was Japan, yet today you protect, it, you do not generalise them for the actions of thier eladership 60 years ago.

Today due to the actions of a few, you bad mouth many. How many actual terroists have you ever engaged with? How many muslims have you ever spoken too or communicated with who have not blown themselves up at you?

I know i am 1 at least...you stillr eject the evident spirit of islam and Pakistan and Britian that i project and choose to look towards a stereotype that you have heard of.

why is thise stereotyping and discrimination only reserved for muslims in your mind?

Leader
01 Dec 05,, 00:17
that quote there, you intended to say that my religious beliefs or nationality, or perhaps even both, where "****", whatever taht is, and that you intended to depict it as that, without even knowing who or what these elements are.

Nope.

Leader
01 Dec 05,, 00:23
there you go again, atempting to stereotype 1 billion muslims thru the actions of what say at the most a million active militants/terrorists....whatever you want to call them.

You are depecting 1000 people by the actions of 1.

Russia's leaders are eveil people, have been in the past too, the same can be said of Nazi Germany...does that mean that all germans and Russians are evil?

You no longer make those stereotypes when it suits you.

The only nation to actually attack you was Japan, yet today you protect, it, you do not generalise them for the actions of thier eladership 60 years ago.

Today due to the actions of a few, you bad mouth many. How many actual terroists have you ever engaged with? How many muslims have you ever spoken too or communicated with who have not blown themselves up at you?

I know i am 1 at least...you stillr eject the evident spirit of islam and Pakistan and Britian that i project and choose to look towards a stereotype that you have heard of.

why is thise stereotyping and discrimination only reserved for muslims in your mind?

Your mind reading device is malfunctioning. i'd get it replace. In the mean time you might try reading what others are saying rather then making massive strawmen. It really wastes your time far more then mine.

platinum786
01 Dec 05,, 00:39
denail of waht you rerpesent will not help, aska neutral interpertor to read out what they think.

Leader
01 Dec 05,, 00:51
denail of waht you rerpesent will not help, aska neutral interpertor to read out what they think.
What I represent? I represent what I believe, which you've never bothered to understand. Unless that's a remark about me being an American in which case your about the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen.

Confed999
01 Dec 05,, 01:30
Excuse me, become muslim and british before you comment on our lives.
If you are to follow that rule, you'll miss out of any conversations not about British Muslims...

Leader
01 Dec 05,, 01:32
If you are to follow that rule, you'll miss out of any conversations not about British Muslims...

Stop promoting the genocide of Muslims!

platinum786
01 Dec 05,, 01:40
i should have said don't pretend to be an expert on....

Confed999
01 Dec 05,, 01:42
i should have said don't pretend to be an expert on....
;)

platinum786
01 Dec 05,, 01:57
does anyone else agree that leader can be too close minded about muslim people?

Confed999
01 Dec 05,, 01:59
does anyone else agree that leader can be too close minded about muslim people?
Honestly, any statement like that can be turned around to bite the speaker. Either way, he can be, if he wants to be. ;)

Leader
01 Dec 05,, 02:08
i should have said don't pretend to be an expert on....
When did I do that? I didn't. You're just a paranoid wacko.

Leader
01 Dec 05,, 02:12
does anyone else agree that leader can be too close minded about muslim people?
What a f*cking moron. How the f*ck do you even know what I think piss ant?

Confed999
01 Dec 05,, 02:32
Come on guys, be nice. :)

Leader
01 Dec 05,, 02:38
Come on guys, be nice. :)
Tried that. It didn't work. I tried "I don't believe that." He sees fit to continue his little slander campaign and to post all this bs about how I hate Muslims. I've supported every war that America has fought to LIBERATE Muslims. Americans are dying in Iraq for Muslims to be free and this prick thinks we're all close-minded bigots. So yeah, he can go f*ck himself.

Confed999
01 Dec 05,, 02:45
Tried that. It didn't work. I tried "I don't believe that."
On this thread he definately started it.

In fact, I'm going to go ahead and issue a warning to platinum786 for this bit, "where most of you potato immgrants came from". That was totally uncalled for.

Ray
01 Dec 05,, 03:46
Platinum,

Let Allah, the Most Merciful decide the density of the grey matter between the ears of yours, mine and the others.

That said, you are under a delusion if you feel that a Mosque can be visited by a non Moslem. Yes, perambulating around the outskirts, but not allowed inside! :eek:

In Malaysia, which has a more tolerant Islam, I was not allowed inside the Blue Mosque of Shah Alam!

And I could have conned them since I know how to do wudu/ wuzu as also say the namaz!

So, as Lord Byron said when banished from England, "If I am not good enough for England, then England is not good enough for me!"

So, that much for non Moslem "seeing" Islam for what it is worth!

In fact, it is religious apartheid!

Ray
01 Dec 05,, 03:55
Confed,

Actually they are talking at cross purposes and without listening to the other.

Is Leader Irish?

The British brought potatoes and tomatoes to India.

In fact, potatoes have become an important item in Indian foods.

Jab tak samosa men rahega aloo,
Tab tak Bihar men rahega Laloo

This is the slogan of the court jester ex Chief Minister of Bihar, Laloo.

It mean that so long as there will be potatoes in samosa (a popular snack in India made of potatoes and like a massive wonton/ dim sum), there will always be Laloo in Bihar! :biggrin:

Great to be a potato farmer! ;)

Leader
01 Dec 05,, 04:23
"Is Leader Irish?"

I am actually as will as being Scottish and part American Indian. Plat has no way of knowing this I don't think. And for the record, I know what he's talking about, but I'm not going to engage a conversation on the basis that I'm something I'm clearly not.

Confed999
01 Dec 05,, 04:41
In fact, potatoes have become an important item in Indian foods.

I'm still not very experienced with Indian foods. I had my first taste five years ago, give or take. I am quite a fan of vindaloos, though I must be sure to have antacids on hand. I always look for nan as well, but I'm allways up for bread. We have a couple of ok Indian resturants in this area. :)

Now I'm hungry...

Ray
01 Dec 05,, 04:42
Leader,

Read Confed's smoke signals.

Smoke a peacepipe.

Have a powow!

:biggrin:

Plat,

No idea of making the issue Custer's Last Stand! :tongue: :biggrin:

Leader
01 Dec 05,, 04:51
Leader,

Read Confed's smoke signals.

Smoke a peacepipe.

Have a powow!

Proclaiming peace were none exists serves no one.

Ray
01 Dec 05,, 05:13
Then....

Let's play the Taps! ;)

troung
01 Dec 05,, 05:26
If they wnat to build the worlds biggest mosque and getthe green light well then what is the problem?

Leader
01 Dec 05,, 06:38
If they wnat to build the worlds biggest mosque and getthe green light well then what is the problem?
There actually isn't one.

Ray
01 Dec 05,, 07:09
Given the traumatic experience the world over and the recent trauma in the UK, the green light may actually be a red rag.

That is the worry.

Skinheads and neo Nazis will flourish.

Confed999
01 Dec 05,, 08:40
If they wnat to build the worlds biggest mosque and getthe green light well then what is the problem?
Putting government in the business of religion seems to be asking for trouble.

platinum786
01 Dec 05,, 12:24
actaully i'm withdrawing my last comment, you aren't worth it, whatever a p1ss ant is still apears to be a better creature than yourself.

this isn't my forum, it's not your forum....it's someone elses forum and i'm not going to ruin it by argueing with you.

your colours have been clearly displayed...
let the world be a judge...

Leader
01 Dec 05,, 19:28
actaully i'm withdrawing my last comment, you aren't worth it, whatever a p1ss ant is still apears to be a better creature than yourself.

this isn't my forum, it's not your forum....it's someone elses forum and i'm not going to ruin it by argueing with you.

your colours have been clearly displayed...
let the world be a judge...

That's classy of you ;)

Praxus
01 Dec 05,, 20:10
When did I do that? I didn't. You're just a paranoid wacko.

Well, if you believe that a prophet was given a message from God to the people, something is seriously wrong with your beliefs.

Praxus
01 Dec 05,, 20:12
actaully i'm withdrawing my last comment, you aren't worth it, whatever a p1ss ant is still apears to be a better creature than yourself.

this isn't my forum, it's not your forum....it's someone elses forum and i'm not going to ruin it by argueing with you.

your colours have been clearly displayed...
let the world be a judge...

I'll let reason be the judge. What the world thinks is irrelivent.

Julie
01 Dec 05,, 20:16
I am actually as will as being Scottish and part American Indian. Me too....soooo....does that mean I'm worse than a p1ss ant as well? :confused:

Gautam
01 Dec 05,, 20:22
Excuse me, become muslim and british before you comment on our lives.

If we have the capacity to make this masjid why not? If we have muslims that need to pray in this masjid then why not? For the olypics many other excesses will be done, if one helps the muslim community why is that a negativity.

the organisaiton behind the idea....i'm not a fan of, they vary from what i consider true islam, but to each his own.


as for the lame arguement of british people hating it or disliking it, that myth was dispelled by the incredible response by the british public post the london tube attacks, nobody made a comment out of place.

This is not India where you pretend to be a democracy and a secular state tehm promote the hindu rule....this is the birth place of true democracy as we know it today with secuarlsim, Britian, indeed it is Great Britain, to keep in touch with the olympic theme.
Aite MR I AM British and what indianguy said has a very valid point and I will prove it to you in a minute.

Now that you have asked for trouble lemme be the first one 2 give it to you.


Study reveals jobs plight of Muslims
Muslim men of Pakistani and Bangladeshi background are disproportionately unemployed relative to other Asians, according to a Cabinet Office report commissioned by Tony Blair. Even after allowances for education and residential area, Pakistani Muslims are three times more likely to be jobless than Hindus are. Indian Muslims are twice as likely to be unemployed than Indian Hindus are.
Downing Street commissioned the study from the Performance and Innovation Unit, whose brief was to come up with ways of improving the economic performance of ethnic minorities. But the findings on religion may embarrass a government that has gone ahead with a controversial plan to allow more "faith schools". Yet the study warns against concluding that religion necessarily causes economic disadvantage, but notes that "the odds of being unemployed do vary significantly with religion". Hindus, for example, are significantly more successful in the jobs market than Sikhs.


Article continues

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"Far more is in play than just religious effects," the report says. Among South Asians, Indian Muslims do better than Muslims from Pakistani or Bangladeshi backgrounds - and better than Sikhs.
The prime minister asked for the 220-page dossier in March last year, before the riots in Oldham and Burnley and the September 11 terrorist attacks made integration and religion charged subjects.

Today's document is an interim report and makes no recommendations - that will come later in the spring. But religion, including the influence of Islam, seems to be one of the "unidentified factors which need to be considered" by ministers. The report, which labels fluency in English another influential factor, may add to calls from the home secretary, David Blunkett, for compulsory English classes for new immigrants.

Ethnic minorities form 6.7% of Britain's population of working age - 2.4m out of 33m. Among them are 690,000 black people and 1.1m South Asians. Theirs "is a depressing story of continuing disadvantage," said Anthony Heath, the Oxford sociologist who wrote papers for the study showing that the educational qualifications gained by ethnic minorities should have led to better jobs.

Shamit Saggar of Queen Mary and Westfield College, London, who led the research, said that after adjusting for age, language fluency, education and a host of other possible explanations for under-performance at work, he kept coming back to an "X factor" - racial discrimination in the workplace.

The report concludes: "Racial harassment and discrimination have negatively influenced the achievements of both first- and second-generation ethnic minorities in the labour market."

A principal finding is how different the ethnic minorities are from each other. Black Caribbean women are an economic success story. Despite high levels of single parenthood, they get and keep jobs. They are more professionalised than white women. Yet black Caribbean men remain "marginal". In 1966, one in 12 West Indian men was in a white collar job; by the 1990s, one in three. In the same period, white-collar employment among whites rose from one in three to one in two.

The Chinese have also leapt ahead of whites in terms of professional positions and success at school. But a larger proportion of Chinese live in poor households than whites do, and Chinese men's average weekly pay is well below that of whites, Indians and black Africans.

The chances of ethnic minorities being jobless in 2000, when the labour market was tight, were still higher than they were for whites 10 years previously, when the economy was in much worse shape. One reason was the continuing concentration of Pakistani and Bangladeshi men in such declining sectors as clothing and textiles.

After adjustments for training and family circumstances, ethnic minority men earn less than white workers. For women, the picture is different. Pakistani women earn £34 a week less than white women, but Indian and Caribbean women earn more - £14 and £30 respectively. This may reflect the fact that minority women are more likely than white women to work full time outside their homes. There are variations between the minorities. One-fifth of Bangladeshi women work or want to work in paid jobs, compared with four-fifths of black women.

Overall, ethnic minorities form 6% of public sector workers (348,000 out of 5.8m) and 10% of paid workers in the voluntary sector. That is surprising, since public sector jobs were a way by which black Caribbean and Indian women entered professional and managerial ranks.

But one in 20 Indian men is a doctor, a ratio 10 times higher than for whites. Professor Heath suggests that "bureaucracy" may be fairer than private sector firms in offering access to senior positions.

The study notes that racist attitudes are "prevalent" across the UK, though they are concentrated in the north and among older, poorer and less educated white people - Old Labour's constituency.

The Cabinet Office would not be drawn on possible policy changes, but the report notes how "extensive" government intervention in the labour market already is. Possible recommendations include new programmes for ethnic minority small businesses, positive discrimination in government purchasing and pressure on private employers.

Ok now you must want a source so let me quote UK's widely respected Guardian Newspaper.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/racism/Story/0,2763,653116,00.html

The problem is this buddy, that muslims in West are diverting more time & resources on to their religion rather than on important issues which are dragging Muslim communities away from the main stream society.

BY shouting on National Television how I Quote "ur brothers are dying in Iraq, Chechnaya, Kashmir, Afghanistan blah blah." would not solve anyone's problems.

Instead of confronting its own problems the Muslim community has engaged in finger pointing by blaming the Iraq War, the neglect of Muslims in main stream British Society, the British government's neglect of Muslims etc.

What you don't realise is that if you were to channel all this energy into efforts under which the Muslim communities around UK were closely involved in educating and finding ways of keeping their youth's busy than rather become targets for fundamentalists who can than brain wash them into believing their evil idiologies.

Secondly you talk about
become muslim and british before you comment on our lives
Well I am British already, as for becoming a moslem to comment on your way of lives I say hell no.

WHy???? Because like it or not, just as every muslim has to put up with the consequences of few Islamic Fundamentalists, other South East Asian communities, Mainly Sikhs * Hindu's have to put up with it because racists niether have the clue of who's who nor can they differentiate between muslims and non-muslims. In fact they are so ignorant that they have no clue's as to how different we people are.

That is more than a justification for me being able to comment on the Muslim society/ their ways of life because anything you do comes back to us as well.
Was I to be aloof of this, perhaps than I would have agreed with your statement.


as for the lame arguement of british people hating it or disliking it, that myth was dispelled by the incredible response by the british public post the london tube attacks, nobody made a comment out of place.

Very true, but stop pacifying, u r sounding like the labour government who has been busy pacifying the muslim community post 7/7 rather than coming out in open and addressing the shortcomings that exist in the muslim society because it fears of a political backlash.

but remind me if I am mistaken, wasn't it the Muslims in Aldgate East area (Tower Hamlets) and in Oldham, Bradford who openly declared their support for Osama Bin Laden on the 12th of September 2001 and gave video interviews stating how they were ready to become suicide bombers.


This is not India where you pretend to be a democracy and a secular state tehm promote the hindu rule....this is the birth place of true democracy as we know it today with secuarlsim, Britian, indeed it is Great Britain, to keep in touch with the olympic theme.

And finally for your outburst, lemme remind you that despite of our failings we have an election system and an election commission that is able to oversee and supervise the biggest election show on this planet. It has been known to be very impartial and efficient ( in fact Imran Khan himself acknowledged this fact with an interview with SIMI GAREWAL).

Also in India unlike most middle eastern countries we have a govrnment that is elected by the people not monarchies (Saudi Arabia, Iraq (Saddam), UAE, Syria, We don't have military dictatorships i.e. Pakistan) Hell I can't think of a secular and democratic country in the muslim world.
Oh so now we are promoting Hindu rule
haha surely Hindu Rule we promote so we have the following demographics of our leadership


Prime Minister of India: Dr . Manmohan Singh ( A SIKH)
President of India: A.P.J. Abdul Kalam : A Muslim
Leader of the ruling Congress party: Sonia Gandhi (A Catholic)
Leader of opposition: L.K. Advani (A HINDU)


So this is a Hindu dominated India where the President is Muslim, Prime Minister a Sikh, Leader of ruling a christian and only the opposition is Hindu.

How the hell could we manage this dam. I think all Indians have either been brain washed or halucinating on weed that they mistake Mr Kalam, Sonia Gandhi and Mr Singh for Hindu's.

Let me correct you, Britian is classified as a constitutional monarchy not precisely as a democracy.

As to your comment of India pretending to be a deomocracy I shall give it a pass because your words stink of frustration and dumbness given it was the very same muslims shouting Blair is B LIAR and that the whole UK Political system was a sharade and how this all democracy thing was crap when the govt refused to listen to muslims in this country prior to going to war in IRAQ.

As usual your arguments and random outbursts lack any underlying facts and convictions to bring anyone round to your view point.

With the end of this huge essay I leave u with a set of statistics again obtained from Guardian's website.


The figures

· One in 20 Indian men is a doctor compared with one in 200 white men

· One third of black women in work are in health or social services, compared with one fifth of white women

· Hindus are four times less likely to be unemployed than Pakistani and Bangladeshi Muslims

· Black Caribbean men earn £115 a week less than white men; Pakistani and Bangladeshi men £150 less

· Black Caribbean women earn £30 more than white women; Pakistani and Bangladeshi women £34 less

· Ethnic minorities will account for half the growth in population of working age over the next 10 years

· 45% of Chinese men are in professional or managerial jobs compared with 25% of white and Indian men

· 25% of Pakistani men are self-employed compared with 11% of white men

· Ethnic minorities form 6% of public sector workers

· One third of Bangladeshi men work as cooks or waiters

· 7% of small businesses are in ethnic minority ownership

· 20% of Bangladeshi women work or want to work in paid jobs compared with 80% of black women
http://www.guardian.co.uk/racism/Story/0,2763,653116,00.html

Platinum, this ain't about u or me, this ain't about being Indian. British, Pakistani or American. This is not about being Hindu, Muslim, Christian, Jew or anything.

This is about people like you acting dumb, making statements in public domain that are so skewed and without facts which further helps alienating the mainstream muslim society from the other societies.

Try 2 admit and resolve ur problems rather than engaging in confrontation and finger pointing. May be than a new mosque or any other related event will pass by as being as a normal event.


P.S. Harrow to have first state-funded Hindu school.
Did u hear much mention about this in the Media???
http://education.guardian.co.uk/faithschools/story/0,13882,1513965,00.html

U wouldn't have. now ask yourself why and think the reasons for it. Contemplate what would happen if the word Hindu was substituted with Muslims. Chances are that would become a hot news item.

platinum786
01 Dec 05,, 20:57
now i ask you, are people unemployed because they are not skilled or on benifiets, or because god told them to be?!

why blame religion, why drag that into everything?
as for pacifiying?
pacifiy what?!
The governemnt knows for a fact that it is to blame for the london bombings.
successive governemnts have ignored the plight of the muslim community and allowed hizb-u-tahir to flourish fearing political backlash from party funders etc...and left wing groups...

after the london attacks they fianlly decuided to ban them, years after muslims have been asking for this. they are the soul reason behind the london attacks, HT....that groups has been spreading and recruiting hated filled people for decades and had to take this untilt hey finally acted!


you might ask, but why didn't muslims argue louder, but i put that back to you, now that they have been banned,w hich muslims have complained?! Apart from those who lose politically as the attention is now on thema nd they don't have HT to blame for thier f**k ups and lack of organising a religion.

ZFBoxcar
01 Dec 05,, 21:16
Putting government in the business of religion seems to be asking for trouble.


I didn't see from the article where the government is involved at all.

This thread has gotten stupid. If nobody has a problem with Muslims using their own money to build a mosque, why does it matter how correct or incorrect Islam is? Unless we are gonna outlaw Islam we have no right to stop them from building mosques, and unless we hear something about Islamists using this mosque to preach hatred, why should we even be bitter about its creation? Sure, the money spent on this it might be better spent on other things, but why is this such a big deal? And why has this turned into a debate about which minority in Britain is better?

Bluesman
01 Dec 05,, 21:37
The only probem I have with it is WHO is building this mosque.

My prediction: the Brits won't muster up enough courage to stop the bastard that is behind this, even though he is the very definition of the inciter that the Brits supposedly won't tolerate anymore.

And once its built, almost NOTHING that goes on inside, almost NOTHING its devotees do, will stir the government to regulate or in any way interfere with the doings on the mosque and its followers.

It is to be a base for radicalism, pure and simple, and if anybody doubts that, Google search its sponsor.

ZFBoxcar
01 Dec 05,, 21:53
Ah, fair enough. I had never heard of Tablighi Jamaat before. Some reports say they are a recruiting arm for AQ :mad:

Gautam
01 Dec 05,, 21:58
now i ask you, are people unemployed because they are not skilled or on benifiets, or because god told them to be?!

why blame religion, why drag that into everything?



People are unemployed because the stupid interpretation by some in your community has hijacked the lives of thousands of others. The spoon-feeding of thoughts such as believers and non-believers, do not marry outside ur religion, shouting 24/7 about Muslims & Non-Muslims helps increase the gap.
Further in Islam (Its not a hidden fact) that more emphasis is given on religion than education.
I believe education is utmost important and that one can understand his/her religion better if he or she is educated and can make his or her own mind rather than some Iman teaching them their own beliefs.

Why is it that British Hindu's don't have such problems???



as for pacifiying?
pacifiy what?!
The governemnt knows for a fact that it is to blame for the london bombings.
successive governemnts have ignored the plight of the muslim community and allowed hizb-u-tahir to flourish fearing political backlash from party funders etc...and left wing groups...

The govt knows for a fact :confused: when did Labour apologise or hell even admit it was wrong.????? what news sources do u read?? Taliban or Londonistan Times???

Plight of muslim community, oh for god's sake, every muslim in UK will shout how my brothers are dying in Kashmir, Chechnaya, Palestine when 99% of them have no clue what the fundamental problem is, have no grasp of the facts but all they know is people are dying. How pathetic.

So the govt has ignored the plight, oh well lemme say something in relation to this, the so called Million people who marched on the No War Rally prior to Iraq War in London. (Well it was found that 45% of marchers were not British) Hence they have no saying in any matters of Britain.

Secondly the decision to go to WAR was approved by the British Parliament ( MP's elected by the people of this country) Labour & Tories were in on this together and hence it is very clear that the government followed the Majority's decision.

Just because the government could not accoomodate your wishes does not put them at fault and how the **** can u justify 7/7. There lies your problem deepely embedded in Muslim societies in UK who are looking to finger point and justify every thing.
WHy can't u for a change accept that there is a huge fundamentalism problem in modern day Islam in UK and around the world.

Hizbul Tahir has not been banned yet, they had decided to ban it because of its extreme preachings but haven't been able to do so yet as saying something and doing something are 2 diff things. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/security/terrorism-and-the-law/proposed-legislation/?version=2

Oh and were Muslims asking 2 ban HT :confused: oh really, mind showing me one news source that can confirm your self-dreamt up story.
OH so now HT is the soul reason behind London 7/7 Bombs.

Man u halucinating or what????? did u just wake up. If they were really responsible than I would have thought they would have been prosecuted not banned.

Oh by the way many muslims ( professions and students ) at a channel 4 programme called Debating Islam * Sharia openly denounced the British public and Tony Blair for taking steps 2 ban HT.

You have no facts, no bases for your arguements yet you continue to debate an issue that you know is a lost cause. Why is it so hard to admit faults. We all are imprefect, everyone has their shortcomings. The sooner you start thinking that way and adjust ur attitude the better it shall be for otherwise the statistics I showed u will only increase in number which will bring further tensions & unrest between the muslim societies and non-muslim societies.



And why has this turned into a debate about which minority in Britain is better?
I am hardly inrested in proving or debating which minority is better because that would do no good 2 anyone. My main aim was 2 show 2 platinum the facts that prevail in British Muslim society which they have largely chosen to ignore.


And platinum backed of India's democracy and secularism have we??? :rolleyes:

giggs88
02 Dec 05,, 00:33
In Malaysia, which has a more tolerant Islam, I was not allowed inside the Blue Mosque of Shah Alam!

Sir, how do they know?

Confed999
02 Dec 05,, 01:24
I didn't see from the article where the government is involved at all.
Sorry, that wasn't very clear at all. I meant it in agreement with troung, in such that government is really the only one who can stop it. Stopping it because it was Muslim would be asking for trouble. ;)

Bluesman
02 Dec 05,, 01:54
Well, this is the kind of trouble we should welcome.

We have GOT to fight this. It will not do to simply avoid confrontation with extremism. Like as not, you're RIGHT; if the Brits did anything official against this mosque because of its sponsorship, there would be an eruption.

Fine.

It's coming anyway. Have it BEFORE this uber-mosque becomes the de facto capitol of the enemy state RIGHT IN THE HEART of your own.

FIGHT BACK, GODDAMIT! :mad:

Confed999
02 Dec 05,, 02:21
FIGHT BACK, GODDAMIT! :mad:
Does every Muslim need to be fought? It seems to me it's a minority of them, otherwise we would allready be extremely outnumbered.

Jay
02 Dec 05,, 02:37
Does every Muslim need to be fought? It seems to me it's a minority of them, otherwise we would allready be extremely outnumbered.

Sorry for the nitpick, how is that so?? Either the moderate muslims have to fight the extremists or they'll risk getting in to a larger fight with ALL the non-muslims.

In almost all the states/countries that has religious tensions, almost always muslims are involved in extremist activities.

Bluesman
02 Dec 05,, 02:38
Does every Muslim need to be fought? It seems to me it's a minority of them, otherwise we would allready be extremely outnumbered.


No, some of them are helping US. As a matter of fact, NOT all of them need to be fought. If anything else were true, what we're doing in Iraq (and which I'm all in favor of) would be worse than doing nothing at all. Because we are arming and training Muslims to a standard that is higher than any other Muslim state. If we needed to fight EVERY Muslim, we'd be committing suicide with that policy.

No, we need to finish the Iraq project, because by doing that, we will defuse a lot of other problems than if we were to simply keep doing the same ole realpolitik dance that got us here in the first place. As dalem is fond of saying (and as I'm fond of quoting), 'We didn't invade Iraq to invade everybody else. We invaded Iraq so we would NOT have to invade everybody else.'

Note well what I said: only the extremists need to be fought, but they need to be fought continuously and to the death.

And the crew that wants to erect the largest mosque in the world - in the very heart of the West, mind you - is an extremist organization. They must be resisted and destroyed, root and branch. It is hardly helpful to allow their plan to go forward when it COULD be stopped by resolute action, either political, or if it comes to that...force.

Confed999
02 Dec 05,, 02:55
is an extremist organization. They must be resisted and destroyed, root and branch. It is hardly helpful to allow their plan to go forward when it COULD be stopped by resolute action, either political, or if it comes to that...force.
Then the organization itself should be made illegal. I do not recall their name on any official terrorist lists I've seen, but I could be wrong. If they have not been declared illegal, and the building is up to code, then the government should not block it. I wouldn't want the US government to block a Satanic church's construction for the same reasons.

Confed999
02 Dec 05,, 02:56
Sorry for the nitpick, how is that so??
Flat numbers, a billion Muslims vs. 300 million Americans. ;)

Bluesman
02 Dec 05,, 03:14
Then the organization itself should be made illegal. I do not recall their name on any official terrorist lists I've seen, but I could be wrong. If they have not been declared illegal, and the building is up to code, then the government should not block it. I wouldn't want the US government to block a Satanic church's construction for the same reasons.

The Satanists are free to be poseurs and as 'shocking' to us mundanes as they care to be, because I've never once heard even one of their most radical members talk about forcing the rest of us to do anything, or be anything, or live a certain way. They're a bunch of harmless pretenders and misfits that don't make a bunch of grandiose plans to kill thousands of people that don't play their silly games.

But these other guys...

Confed999
02 Dec 05,, 03:16
The Satanists are free to be poseurs and as 'shocking' to us mundanes as they care to be, because I've never once heard even one of their most radical members talk about forcing the rest of us to do anything, or be anything, or live a certain way. They're a bunch of harmless pretenders and misfits that don't make a bunch of grandiose plans to kill thousands of people that don't play their silly games.

But these other guys...
Can change it to a KKK meeting hall if you'd like. Seems the problem is the group isn't illegal.

ZFBoxcar
02 Dec 05,, 03:58
Sorry, that wasn't very clear at all. I meant it in agreement with troung, in such that government is really the only one who can stop it. Stopping it because it was Muslim would be asking for trouble.


Thanks for clearing that up. :)

I guess what it comes down to is whether or not the group sponsering the construction of this mosque is a terrorist group or not or whether there should be some "middle category" and what rights that middle category should have. If they are recruiting for AQ I think that makes them a terrorist organization.

indianguy4u
02 Dec 05,, 05:00
now i ask you, are people unemployed because they are not skilled or on benifiets, or because god told them to be?!

why blame religion, why drag that into everything?
as for pacifiying?
pacifiy what?!
The governemnt knows for a fact that it is to blame for the london bombings.
successive governemnts have ignored the plight of the muslim community and allowed hizb-u-tahir to flourish fearing political backlash from party funders etc...and left wing groups...

after the london attacks they fianlly decuided to ban them, years after muslims have been asking for this. they are the soul reason behind the london attacks, HT....that groups has been spreading and recruiting hated filled people for decades and had to take this untilt hey finally acted!


you might ask, but why didn't muslims argue louder, but i put that back to you, now that they have been banned,w hich muslims have complained?! Apart from those who lose politically as the attention is now on thema nd they don't have HT to blame for thier f**k ups and lack of organising a religion.
Similarly why beg with govts to build faith schools while ur community spend lavishly on grand mosque. U ppl dont have monies for education but scores for building mosques & in extreme cases for terrorist activities. Saudis gave more than a billion for palestinian terrorists during the intifada.

Identify ur priorities & if there is shortfall then ask for govt help. For any rational person education will be of more imp priority than lavish mosque & temples.

Ray
02 Dec 05,, 05:56
now i ask you, are people unemployed because they are not skilled or on benifiets, or because god told them to be?!

why blame religion, why drag that into everything?
as for pacifiying?
pacifiy what?!
The governemnt knows for a fact that it is to blame for the london bombings.
successive governemnts have ignored the plight of the muslim community and allowed hizb-u-tahir to flourish fearing political backlash from party funders etc...and left wing groups...

after the london attacks they fianlly decuided to ban them, years after muslims have been asking for this. they are the soul reason behind the london attacks, HT....that groups has been spreading and recruiting hated filled people for decades and had to take this untilt hey finally acted!


you might ask, but why didn't muslims argue louder, but i put that back to you, now that they have been banned,w hich muslims have complained?! Apart from those who lose politically as the attention is now on thema nd they don't have HT to blame for thier f**k ups and lack of organising a religion.

Plat,

Your post is so typical of the predominant Moslem mindset. At the same time. I will concede that there are pragmatic people too like Neo, too.


The governemnt knows for a fact that it is to blame for the london bombings.
successive governemnts have ignored the plight of the muslim community and allowed hizb-u-tahir to flourish fearing political backlash from party funders etc...and left wing groups...

Have you noticed that the Moslems always blame someone else for their plight and never themselves? You too have gone blaming everyone under the sun and there is not a whiff of the Moslem community taking responsibility for the plight of the Moslem!

If indeed the British govt was moribund, did the Moslems themselves not see that the community was being swamped by the fundamentalists and their ideology? Would it be wrong to surmise that the Moslem community themselves subscribe to what the British govt was up to and went along in the hope that there would be "muscle" behind Moslem demands in Britain, even if they did not want it to become the cancer that it is?

Why did the British Moslem not muzzle those who preached hatred from their mosques instead of flocking there and applauding the same?

If the Moslems can build a monstrous and grand mosque in London for spiritual solace of the Moslem Olympians, don't you think they also could have done better if they build a grand school better than Harrow and Eton. Don't you think that would have been a better initiative to put the Moslems on the right lines and stand up in British society in their own rights, rather than wallow for sympathy and blaming everyone else for their plight?

The problem is that Moslems are more concerned about their religious purity and their zeal in mugging the Koran by heart rather than building instruments that would give them their position. They fail to realise that the Koran will not be adequate to early their daily bread! In fact, no scripture of any religion can earn one's daily bread.

And without one's daily bread, the frustration that the Moslems are displaying is but natural.

Also, tarry and ponder for a while. How come that Moslems alone are not doing well in Britain? After all, they should do well especially when the Moslem countries are so flushed with money. Indeed, if the Moslem countries really cared for their people and the ummah, the Moslems should have had their cake and eat it too!

Alas, Moslems love to talk and blame all for their plight and do little else.

Ray
02 Dec 05,, 05:58
Sir, how do they know?

I was asked.

I told them that I was not a Moslem.

Interesting is the fact that other religions allow non adherents to enter, but here was a case of not being allowed in!

Sad!

Ray
02 Dec 05,, 06:28
but why is this such a big deal? And why has this turned into a debate about which minority in Britain is better?



Ira,

It has veered off possibly because of the whine that the British government is reponsible for all the errors that have crept in the British Moslem society.

Indeed, if the British govt is responsible in totality, then how come other immigrant communities are spared the virus.

Further, the rationale given for building the Mosque i.e. to give spiritual solace to Islamic Olympians worldwide is juvenile and ridiculous. Because of this odd rationale, it does raise doubts and especially when the Tablighi is involved.

Let Moslems have a Mosque that can rival the St Peter's Basilica. But let such a Mosque be built with a straight rationale - giving Islamists a prayer hall of grandeur.

Will they demolish the Mosque after the London Olympics?

Some info on the Tablighi


Apart from the Pakistani jihadi terrorist organisations banned in the UK, the Tablighi Jamaat (TJ) of Pakistan has also been playing an increasingly active role in West Europe. Its headquarters are actually in India. It originally came into existence during the British rule of the Indian sub-continent, with the laudable objective of making Muslims better Muslims by teaching them the Holy Koran and inculcating in them the spirit of service to the poor. The Tablighi Jamaat in India continues to be a laudable organisation, which keeps away from politics and extremism in preaching and practice.

However, its branches in Pakistan and Bangladesh have increasingly come under the sway of radical elements and have let themselves be used by them for the recruitment of volunteers for acts of suicide and other terrorism during its religious congregations, which are largely attended. The trend towards the radicalisation of the TJ was accelerated in the 1990s when its Pakistani branch was headed by Lt.Gen. (retd)Javed Nasir, the former Director-General of the ISI, who had to be removed from the ISI in 1993 by Mr.Nawaz Sharif, the then Prime Minister, under US pressure. Since then, Russia and many other countries have banned the TJ too, though it has not come to notice for participation in any acts of terrorism.

http://www.saag.org/papers17/paper1615.html


The Tablighi is overtly very benign, but they have wily nily become a recuriting place for terrorists.

Some excerpts from http://www.meforum.org/article/686


While Wahhabis are dismissive of other Islamic schools, they single out Tablighi Jamaat for praise, even if they disagree with some of its practices, such as willingness to pray in mosques housing graves. The late Sheikh ‘Abd al ‘Aziz ibn Baz, perhaps the most influential Wahhabi cleric in the late twentieth century, recognized the Tablighis good work and encouraged his Wahhabi brethren to go on missions with them so that they can "guide and advise them."

A practical result of this cooperation has been large-scale Saudi financing of Tablighi Jamaat. While Tablighi Jamaat in theory requires its missionaries to cover their own expenses during their trips, in practice, Saudi money subsidizes transportation costs for thousands of poor missionaries. While Tablighi Jamaat's financial activities are shrouded in secrecy, there is no doubt that some of the vast sums spent by Saudi organizations such as the World Muslim League on proselytism benefit Tablighi Jamaat. As early as 1978, the World Muslim League subsidized the building of the Tablighi mosque in Dewsbury, England, which has since become the headquarters of Tablighi Jamaat in all of Europe.

he West's misreading of Tablighi Jamaat actions and motives has serious implications for the war on terrorism. Tablighi Jamaat has always adopted an extreme interpretation of Sunni Islam, but in the past two decades, it has radicalized to the point where it is now a driving force of Islamic extremism and a major recruiting agency for terrorist causes worldwide. For a majority of young Muslim extremists, joining Tablighi Jamaat is the first step on the road to extremism. Perhaps 80 percent of the Islamist extremists in France come from Tablighi ranks, prompting French intelligence officers to call Tablighi Jamaat the "antechamber of fundamentalism."



Read the complete article and it will be revealing.

Leader
02 Dec 05,, 06:52
Plat,

Your post is so typical of the predominant Moslem mindset. At the same time. I will concede that there are pragmatic people too like Neo, too.



Have you noticed that the Moslems always blame someone else for their plight and never themselves? You too have gone blaming everyone under the sun and there is not a whiff of the Moslem community taking responsibility for the plight of the Moslem!

If indeed the British govt was moribund, did the Moslems themselves not see that the community was being swamped by the fundamentalists and their ideology? Would it be wrong to surmise that the Moslem community themselves subscribe to what the British govt was up to and went along in the hope that there would be "muscle" behind Moslem demands in Britain, even if they did not want it to become the cancer that it is?

Why did the British Moslem not muzzle those who preached hatred from their mosques instead of flocking there and applauding the same?

If the Moslems can build a monstrous and grand mosque in London for spiritual solace of the Moslem Olympians, don't you think they also could have done better if they build a grand school better than Harrow and Eton. Don't you think that would have been a better initiative to put the Moslems on the right lines and stand up in British society in their own rights, rather than wallow for sympathy and blaming everyone else for their plight?

The problem is that Moslems are more concerned about their religious purity and their zeal in mugging the Koran by heart rather than building instruments that would give them their position. They fail to realise that the Koran will not be adequate to early their daily bread! In fact, no scripture of any religion can earn one's daily bread.

And without one's daily bread, the frustration that the Moslems are displaying is but natural.

Also, tarry and ponder for a while. How come that Moslems alone are not doing well in Britain? After all, they should do well especially when the Moslem countries are so flushed with money. Indeed, if the Moslem countries really cared for their people and the ummah, the Moslems should have had their cake and eat it too!

Alas, Moslems love to talk and blame all for their plight and do little else.


Well said. :biggrin:

Jay
02 Dec 05,, 20:22
I was asked.

I told them that I was not a Moslem.

Interesting is the fact that other religions allow non adherents to enter, but here was a case of not being allowed in!

Sad!


Sir,
There are lots of temples in South India that will not allow non hindus. One such is Guruvayoor in Kerala, IIRC they didnt allow Sonia Gandhi. Then Madurai Meenakshi, non-hindus are not allowed inside the sanctum.

platinum786
02 Dec 05,, 21:56
oh i get it, Gautam can't get a job and it's because people think he's muslim.....

giggs88
03 Dec 05,, 00:19
oh i get it, Gautam can't get a job and it's because people think he's muslim.....
What the hell are you talking about?

Leader
03 Dec 05,, 02:14
What the hell are you talking about?
Plat is like the Jesse Jackson of Muslims. ;)

giggs88
03 Dec 05,, 03:04
Jesse Jackson is a dumbass. Don't be like him plat... ;)

indianguy4u
03 Dec 05,, 03:14
Jesse Jackson is a dumbass. Don't be like him plat... ;)
He is simply deflecting the issue, now that he finds himself in hot water. Spending majority of time like he does @ pdf, u dont really get the rational view, mostly patriotic ones. And they do seem to run out if ur a Qed rational way.

PS: If the same issue was debated in pdf, everone knows which track would that had been taken, same victim mentality instead of seeking right answers.

Ray
03 Dec 05,, 03:33
Sir,
There are lots of temples in South India that will not allow non hindus. One such is Guruvayoor in Kerala, IIRC they didnt allow Sonia Gandhi. Then Madurai Meenakshi, non-hindus are not allowed inside the sanctum.

How the hell would one know who is a Hindu, Christian or a Moslem?

Yesudas, the Christain singer was allowed in Sabrimala where non Hindus are not allowed. Initially, he was not allowed, but the groundswell went so against the management that Jesudas was allowed.

It is for the public to take up the challenge and stupidity in the name of religion can be cowed down.

indianguy4u
03 Dec 05,, 03:38
Yesudas wasnt allowed, he did it with camoflage way.

This is not end of it. There are some temples where males should go bare chested & some only males are allowed.

I do think these customs needs to be rethought & changes wherever applicable should be made.

bull
03 Dec 05,, 07:28
How the hell would one know who is a Hindu, Christian or a Moslem?

Yesudas, the Christain singer was allowed in Sabrimala where non Hindus are not allowed. Initially, he was not allowed, but the groundswell went so against the management that Jesudas was allowed.

It is for the public to take up the challenge and stupidity in the name of religion can be cowed down.




I am not all for opening up of temples for non hindus.Though i do go to churches.

Samudra
03 Dec 05,, 09:17
There are some temples where males should go bare chested & some only males are allowed.

and there are temples where men are not allowed access.
Take me to some old temple, I'll show you a thousand stories written all over them.

Gautam
03 Dec 05,, 14:40
oh i get it, Gautam can't get a job and it's because people think he's muslim.....


You are really pathetic aren't u?????

Two things, I have a proper job unlike those people in EAST LONDON who chant in the streets and vow to avenge the death of their brothers or burn the British Flag and act like morons.

Secondly, I think you have an IQ of -132, when I posted that article I posted it in context to the funding being diverted towards Mosque's when unemployment is slowly creeping up in Muslim communities.

As again you decide to ignore it. U know what it won't make a diff 2 me for I have a job and have education ( Not the Madrassa one). You live in a world that suits you and hence when it comes to comparing unemployment figures from different societies, Muslims always win the race with a ratio of 5:1 .

If you can't address my points directly than don't make such lame attempts to divert the thread, It only makes people like me poke you even more.

Want some more ??? research into this issue.

P.S. Don't hold me responsible if I end up treading on some really sensitive issues, which people in this country always shy away from :biggrin:

platinum786
03 Dec 05,, 21:35
provide stats for your 5:1 ratio, also with regards to your east london crew, again representing Hizb-u-tahir, with thier arab leadership, as representatives of the british Paksitani community.

you don't have qa leg to stand on.
You claim Islam stops people getting jobs, i tell you even the worst exampls of muslims have jobs. The media leader of HT in the UK is a doctor, there was a journalist in the Guardian that was sacked because he was HT...

You have yet to pooint out one example where someone has claimed that Islam stopped them gettinga job.

In fact your only complaint is that you have been victimised and you think that was because you apeared like a muslim, or perhaps it was because you didn't have the back bone to defend yourself when they called you a p*a*k*i

platinum786
03 Dec 05,, 21:41
it's quite evident from this link that the differnece in employment is 7%

People in professional occupations as a percentage of all in employment: by ethnic group, 2002/03, GB
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/images/charts/463a.gif

Self-employment as a percentage of all in employment: by ethnic group, 2002/03, GB
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/images/charts/463.gif

platinum786
03 Dec 05,, 21:50
also more importantly...

whilst on the topic of muslim schools....

In Nottingham a one DR Musharraf Hussain (a real muslim scholar), dad of my friend....has had a islamic school open for several yars in Nottingham, a well acheiving well scoring school with an islamic theme. He has recently been rejected governemnt funding to part finaince his school so it is not totally private, and has been rejected over a cathloc school which has a much lower attendance and much lower scores...

hypocrisy or what?!

This was the man sent out to save Ken Bigley...

the chap on the right hand side...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2004/09/25/ubigley.jpg

platinum786
03 Dec 05,, 21:55
Gautam, i refer you to my new link....let us hijack this elsewhere...

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?p=165222#post165222

Gautam
04 Dec 05,, 01:48
Ho Ho, so another outburst eh???

Haha now let me once again shred ur rant piece by piece.


also with regards to your east london crew, again representing Hizb-u-tahir, with thier arab leadership, as representatives of the british Paksitani community

For heaven's sake stop finger pointing. As "RAY" said above all you ever do is finger point and blame everyone else. Never ever do you take responsibility of your actions. How convinient to blame your muslim brothers.
I was under the impression that it is a sin to blame your muslim brothers for anything, even if they did anything wrong.


you don't have qa leg to stand on.
You claim Islam stops people getting jobs

Did u attend a madrassa?????

Man ur english is so messed up. Do u even understand what context I normally talk in. If i had a thing or two against ISLAM , trust me I wouldn't be here, I would rather open up an anti-islamic forum and debate there.

Did I say "ISLAM STOPS PEOPLE GETTING JOB" :confused: Paste me those words of mine wherever I said this.

Let me thrash some sense into your brain, What I said and meant was that instead of channeling funds into a mosque it would be better for the Muslim communities to channel such huge funds into development of their youth who are unemployed and thus are vulnurable to be recruited by extremists.

You claim to stay in the United Kingdom yet your grasp of english is below par or should I say is almost nil.

In fact I believe the case with you, is that you come here believing everyone is anti-islamic and hence start targetting people with those thoughts in mind, while not realising that the issue being discussed though related is totally different.


tell you even the worst exampls of muslims have jobs. The media leader of HT in the UK is a doctor, there was a journalist in the Guardian that was sacked because he was HT...

Right you think you are a real smart ass. Stop twisting the facts and reporting them in your own way.
Being a guardian reader every day I can assure you that in two seconds I will shred your arguement to pieces and I hope you don't pull another stunt like this again.


Trainee journalist Dilpazier Aslam had his contract with the Guardian terminated today.

The move followed an internal inquiry into Aslam’s membership of the political organisation Hizb ut-Tahrir.

A statement said: “The Guardian now believes continuing membership of the organisation to be incompatible with his continued employment by the company.”

“Mr Aslam was asked to resign his membership but has chosen not to. The Guardian respects his right to make that decision but has regretfully concluded that it had no option but to terminate Mr Aslam’s contract with the company.”

The inquiry followed a piece written by Aslam for the Guardian’s comment pages entitled “We rock the boat”.

The statement added: “The Guardian accepts that it should have explicitly mentioned Mr Aslam’s membership of Hizb ut-Tahrir at the end of his comment piece.”

A correction will appear in the paper’s Corrections and Clarifications column.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/2005/07/22/dilpazier_aslam_leaves_guardian.html

So mr platinum read it carefully

oh plz let me disect this for you before u come up with a wiered interpretation of yours.

so lets see what really happened.


The inquiry followed a piece written by Aslam for the Guardian’s comment pages entitled “We rock the boat”.

The statement added: “The Guardian accepts that it should have explicitly mentioned Mr Aslam’s membership of Hizb ut-Tahrir at the end of his comment piece.”

So Mr Aslam writes an article in a respected broadsheet and forgets to mention that he is a member of the organisation about whome he is writing.

So Plat did u not know that when newspapers write an article, under the press commission guidelines if the person writing an article is assosciated with the organisation/company in concern he/she needs 2 divulge that.

One down many 2 go :cool:

Oh so he was fired eh :eek:


The move followed an internal inquiry into Aslam’s membership of the political organisation Hizb ut-Tahrir.

A statement said: “The Guardian now believes continuing membership of the organisation to be incompatible with his continued employment by the company.”

“Mr Aslam was asked to resign his membership but has chosen not to. The Guardian respects his right to make that decision but has regretfully concluded that it had no option but to terminate Mr Aslam’s contract with the company.”

So from what I remember the Guardian gave him a chance where it asked him 2 resign, which he refused and hence had to terminate his contract which was legal according to the terms and conditions of his employment.



The statement added: “The Guardian accepts that it should have explicitly mentioned Mr Aslam’s membership of Hizb ut-Tahrir at the end of his comment piece.”

He lost his job because of his own stupidity.


You have yet to pooint out one example where someone has claimed that Islam stopped them gettinga job.

Wake up when did I say that,

I repeat, I said that instead of diverting these funds to mosques they could be better used in providing employment schemes for the unemployed youth.


In fact your only complaint is that you have been victimised and you think that was because you apeared like a muslim, or perhaps it was because you didn't have the back bone to defend yourself when they called you a p*a*k*i

I haven't been victimised but know a lot of people who have been. In fact I could see the looks on the face of people post 7/7 when I would go 2 office but luckily for me, I am dressed up in a suit and don't normally carry a rucksack so almost was unaffected by such instances but many other Sikhs & Hindu's were not.

Back bone eh :rolleyes:
Haha
this is my friend's mom
http://www.justiceforkamleshbahl.com/
She has being fighting the English Law Society for last four years. We all as a group have been actively involved in fighting the English Law Society one of the most forbidle opponents.
Guess who is Ms Bahl's QC: None other than Cherie Blair Ms Bahl has already won an employment tribunal claim for 2.5 million against the Law Society.
Currently the case is pending against LORD FALCONER.

AS for being called a ****, It doesn't affect me u know why?? because
A) I am not a ****, I am an Indian and refused to be offended by a word that has hardly anything to do with my culture, religio, ethinicity or race.
B) Was it not for people like you ranting on Nationa TV and Press, such instances would largely drop away.


And don't ever say that you don't have a backbone because I tell u what,

People who don't have a backbone to fight always rant, like you are now, like muslims around UK do on BBC (QUESTION TIME ), NEWS when they moan how their brothers are dying in Kashmir, Chechnaya, Palestine while all they do is moan, shout and than go home and sleep.
Bunch of hypocrites.

You are no different Platinum.

As for your offer


Gautam, i refer you to my new link....let us hijack this elsewhere...

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sh...5222#post165222

I am least bit interested in discussing such issues with a person whose intellect defies logic and his interpretation of facts could very well lead to a Indo-Pak war on WAB :biggrin:

platinum786
04 Dec 05,, 10:47
The problem is this buddy, that muslims in West are diverting more time & resources on to their religion rather than on important issues which are dragging Muslim communities away from the main stream society.



Your point being that we are spending our energies on religion rather than other things, and you made it even clearer with....


Let me thrash some sense into your brain, What I said and meant was that instead of channeling funds into a mosque it would be better for the Muslim communities to channel such huge funds into development of their youth who are unemployed and thus are vulnurable to be recruited by extremists.

You are under the impression that british Pakistani's are unemployed because there is a lack of opertunity to be employed and a lack of resources, resources being pushed and diverted towards religion.

That is WRONG. If you read my link it'd explain explicitly why british Pakistani's have a high rate of unemployment. http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=9528

You also consilidate your relgious based arguement by pointing out that hindu's are doing better and Indian muslims are doing better, prompting members to ask why there is a discussion of which ethnic minority is better.

With regards to the Gardian HT journolist, you have entirely missed the point in your attempt to drag the topic away from the scandelous beating you are getting at every turn.

You misquoted me, he was sacked because he was HT, even you said it.
The arguement presented that your cereal box english lessons have not taught you to pick up, was that even the most religious-centric of the community have managed to get jobs, with his example being a high profile one.

I questioned your backbone, not your friends mothers. You have time and time again stated that asians are suffering because of the actions of a few muslims, time and time again you whine about that, yet you do not have it inside yourself to present yourself as an entity to the whole world that they can't hate, instead you take the easy route and try to seperate muslims from hindu's and Indains from pakistani's, let me tell you, the audience you are trying to apeal to, the people who cannot tell the difference between a terrorist and a normal every day person, your just another p*a*k*i to them.

Also you question my english, however you seemed to have understood it well enough to argue for several days. However let me ask you about your friends "mom", not mum or mother, you used the word mom, quite a clear indication that your english is not of a british origin.

Either you are canadian or American, or your sitting in a call centre in Bangalsore and trying posts during your break, because i know for a fact that call centre agents there are thought to localise thier english by watching eastenders and baywatch.

Leader
04 Dec 05,, 11:07
"Either you are canadian or American"

Clearly a reason for summary execution.

Ray
04 Dec 05,, 11:55
Nothing wrong if a bloke is from HT and writes a column without mentioning so and then gets sacked.

I find the link that Gautam provided an eyeopener to the issue and the twisting of the reality to suit the convenience by the Moslem society.

A pretty good thing actually.

I dislike scoundrels who hide their actual identity.

I also dislike these front organisations which carry out nefarious and heinous acts that are scandalous in civilised society.

Gautam
04 Dec 05,, 13:22
;) Here we go again, Platinum now let me make myself explicitly clear and if you get offended by the things I am going 2 mention below than hard luck.

Let's begin with some facts I have gathered on you after having read some of your posts.

A) You are one of those people (within the South East Asian Community) who think their upbringing here in the UK makes them better than anyone just because u can speak fluent english but use slangs such as "in it" "ya" after and before every word.
The fact is that such accent's and people who speak in such cockney accent's are ridiculed everywhere they go. Moreover try going 2 an interview in this country with that accent you will get ur reply from the looks on the face of the interviewer.


You are under the impression that british Pakistani's are unemployed because there is a lack of opertunity to be employed and a lack of resources, resources being pushed and diverted towards religion.

I could make out you were insecure, but up to this extent, jeez.

Well plat, read carefully, if u can't do that get someone else to read it for you, where the hell did I say British Pakistani's :confused: I was addressing every muslim in the UK.

Who is insecure, :rolleyes: I address my topic to all muslims and dear Plat takes it personally, this shows how frustrated you are.


That is WRONG. If you read my link it'd explain explicitly why british Pakistani's have a high rate of unemployment. http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=9528

I could care less, and I didn't know you were so heavily into research. :eek:


You also consilidate your relgious based arguement by pointing out that hindu's are doing better and Indian muslims are doing better, prompting members to ask why there is a discussion of which ethnic minority is better.

What are you smoking these days????
Did I compare Hindus and Indian muslims with other muslims., Eh naa, the article was only a reference point for you which again as usual you have taken it out of context and interpreted in your wiered way.


With regards to the Gardian HT journolist, you have entirely missed the point in your attempt to drag the topic away from the scandelous beating you are getting at every turn.
You dragged this in, I just clarified your comments of him having been sacked.


You misquoted me, he was sacked because he was HT, even you said it.
Had you done a bit more of research, you wouldn't have ended up making an ass out of yourself. There is a huge difference between SACKED and having your contract terminated.

Sacked would be for a number of reasons but specifically applies in cases of Gross Mis-Conduct.
His contract was terminated because his membership with HT was not in agreement with the Terms & Conditions set up in Guardian's contract.

God knows how can u mix them together unless u were born & brought up in UK and I was in Rural INDIA :frown: Anyone willing to give me some lessons in english. :rolleyes:



yet you do not have it inside yourself to present yourself as an entity to the whole world that they can't hate, instead you take the easy route and try to seperate muslims from hindu's and Indains from pakistani's,

OH please, don't act like a lunatic. It was Mohd Ali Jinnah who sowed the seeds of seperation by creating an independent Pakistan. Now that you have a country of your's I have no interest of either being with you or being assosciated with you.

I never have nor do seek to seperate muslims from Hindu's, all I ask is that we as a group be Indian Hindu's Muslim's or Sikhs be addressed as Indians rather than Pakistani's, which I believe is fair.


the audience you are trying to apeal to, the people who cannot tell the difference between a terrorist and a normal every day person, your just another p*a*k*i to them.

No Comment


Also you question my english, however you seemed to have understood it well enough to argue for several days. However let me ask you about your friends "mom", not mum or mother, you used the word mom, quite a clear indication that your english is not of a british origin.Either you are canadian or American, or your sitting in a call centre in Bangalsore and trying posts during your break, because i know for a fact that call centre agents there are thought to localise thier english by watching eastenders and baywatch.

Haha, I feel really sorry for you because your view's are limited as to those documentarie's you see on channel 4 or UK TV.

Mom or mum, so you are saying you can tell where one was brought up by such a short conversation. So now I am an American or a Canadian :confused: or even based in a call centre in Bangalore.

Haha what will you have me do?? scan my passport and put it up here?? or even better mail u my CV along with my current job details and educational background???.

If i was insecure like you, I might have done that but seriously do you think it would make any difference to me what you or anyone else here thinks.

Fortunately for me it doesn't but muslims time and time again prove just like you did that to get their point's across they need 2 shout from top of their lungs just because they can never be wrong.

As for going personal, it just show's ur upbringing where you resort to stereotyping call centre people.
On this note let me mention that Bangalore is not the only city in India where work is outsourced

and alas, when everything fails hell I could just tell an Indian you are a call centre employee, so what if thousands of jobs are being lost here in the UK.

You are so pathetic that you don't even realise that evey call centre employee in India has his/her job outsourced from the West on the expense of a Brit/American/Canadian's job. But hell, why would u bother, u must be an oxbridge graduate working as an assosciate earning six figures, with fluent english yet with a brain of the size of a peanut. ;)

indianguy4u
05 Dec 05,, 12:33
Want to know more about Hizb ut-Tahrir, this blog (http://mcbwatch.blogspot.com/2005/08/mcb-and-hizb-ut-tahrir.html) would be helpful.

Ray
05 Dec 05,, 17:06
HT is one of the cutest organisation.

"High Tension" and creating High Tension everywhere! ;)

Gautam
05 Dec 05,, 18:52
Want to know more about Hizb ut-Tahrir, this blog (http://mcbwatch.blogspot.com/2005/08/mcb-and-hizb-ut-tahrir.html) would be helpful.

Like the rest of ur brother Platinum all u ever engage is in finger pointing. For once stand up and acknowledge ur shortcomings.