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lemontree
23 Nov 05,, 13:29
Indian's body found in Afghanistan (http://www.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=58799)

The only problem is that instead or driving out the Border Roads Org (BRO) the Taliban may draw the Indian Army on their heels in Afghanistan.

Samudra
23 Nov 05,, 14:22
Taliban may draw the Indian Army on their heels in Afghanistan.

Sir,

What are the advantages/disadvantages of IA presence in Afghan ?

I'll try a bit of speculation...

1.India will be more frequently targetted by the OBL gang.
2.Do we have enough men to send in the first place given the fact that so many troops are stationed for CI roles ?

3.Who would cover the costs ?
4.Have we really learnt our leasons from IPKF ?
5.For how long are our boys going to be there ?

lemontree
24 Nov 05,, 05:33
Sir,

What are the advantages/disadvantages of IA presence in Afghan ?

I'll try a bit of speculation...

1.India will be more frequently targetted by the OBL gang.
We operate differently, and on the ground. If our presence draws them out them so much the better.

2.Do we have enough men to send in the first place given the fact that so many troops are stationed for CI roles?
We can start by sending in a brigade and increase it to a division. It in our national intrest.

3.Who would cover the costs ?
The business obtained in Afghanistan will cover the cost many fold.

4.Have we really learnt our leasons from IPKF ?
IPKF was the best thing that could have happened to the IA.
The Sri Lanka war was not ours, we mendled our hands and paid for it. Afghanistan is different. The Taliban still has to hear from us w.r.t abetment in the IC 814 hijacking.

5.For how long are our boys going to be there ?
As long as they are required.

Gautam
24 Nov 05,, 20:46
As long as they are required.

Not totally satisfied this part. To begin with all these so called World Powers i.e. France, China and Russia should get off their butts and help Afghans establish political as well as social landscape that will guarantee the future stability of Afghanistan as in the end it benefits the whole world.

Why should our boys be thrown in at the deep end when the rest of the world seems aloof of happenings in Afghanistan.

Jay
25 Nov 05,, 01:05
Gautam,

Why did the IN sent half of the fleet to other nations after tsunami when China, Russia, France sat in their a$$es?? :)

lemontree
25 Nov 05,, 05:06
Why should our boys be thrown in at the deep end when the rest of the world seems aloof of happenings in Afghanistan.
If that is your argument, then why should our boys be going on UN peace keeping missions?....they are more at risk in these missions since they do not have the mandate to strike first, only self defence when fired upon.

Lunatock
25 Nov 05,, 17:43
We operate differently, and on the ground. If our presence draws them out them so much the better.

We can start by sending in a brigade and increase it to a division. It in our national intrest.

The business obtained in Afghanistan will cover the cost many fold.

IPKF was the best thing that could have happened to the IA.
The Sri Lanka war was not ours, we mendled our hands and paid for it. Afghanistan is different. The Taliban still has to hear from us w.r.t abetment in the IC 814 hijacking.

As long as they are required.

And no big secret how much the Taliban contributed to the Jihadi's a stones throw away in Kashmir. The terrain would probably be different, but not the enemy.

platinum786
25 Nov 05,, 19:05
to be hoenst with you i think what your all suggesting is arm cahir geenrals.

really it's just 2 people....you've had plenty of others killed beofre which the media hasn't noted....

there have been plenty killed in iraw yet you will not send troops there...

it's unfeasible and unnessacery.

Jay
26 Nov 05,, 00:05
not really, sending troops to Iraq couldve alienated a part of India politicians, but sending troops to Af'an is a little different.

India can piss off Pakistan, China and Taliban in one stone, which is even more attractive to send the troops. As LTock said its always nice to get to the beehive of jihad (if its up to me, I wouldve invaded or atleast bombed the hell out of PoK, but we can remedy that by sending IA to Afghanistan).

lemontree
26 Nov 05,, 05:31
And no big secret how much the Taliban contributed to the Jihadi's a stones throw away in Kashmir. The terrain would probably be different, but not the enemy.
And where are they - hidden in the mountains. All they do is shot and bomb civilians. Every act is avenged, even if we go across to do it.

Gautam
26 Nov 05,, 13:15
If that is your argument, then why should our boys be going on UN peace keeping missions?....they are more at risk in these missions since they do not have the mandate to strike first, only self defence when fired upon.

Well I am personally against the whole concept of the United Nations. It is nothing but a horse trading table marred by bureaucracy and corruption. Everyone does what they feel like,

Lets take Iraq war as an example, the only reason the French-Russian-Chinese did not side with the Americans & the British was because they knew all the fruits would go 2 the Anglo-Saxon companies, not because they really gave a dam abt peace.

The UN is bs where things never get done as one would want them2 be. Not a day has passed since I have not read more revelations about what Kofi Anan's son has been doing, buying luxury cars under his father's name 2 exempt them from Duty and tax.

Why should INdian even contribute to the peace keeping force when the UNSC seems so reluctant to admit us.

India contributes so many soldiers because there is a belief amongs our politicians that this will aid our bid for a permanent seat on the UNSC.

And frankly spekaing 99% of all the conflicts around the world are not our doing.

Karthik
26 Nov 05,, 18:07
I agree with Gautam to the extent that the UN is in dire need of radical reforms. India is asked to contribute troops to countries which are almost forgotten by everyone. Like in Iraq for instance. The Americans decide which dish to prepare, but the clean up job is left to other countries of which India is a part.


But having no UN would play into the hands of those who employ the policy of reckless pre-emptive action. Disbanding the organisation is not an option.

Many organs of the UN like the ILO, WHO and UNHCR have done tremendous work - in Sierra Leone, Congo, Bosnia, Kosovo and in places wrecked by natural catastrophes.

platinum786
26 Nov 05,, 18:10
due to your complete lack of sense it never will be uptoyou either jay...

i mean idiots like you are just looking to get nuked aren't you...

Hari_Om
26 Nov 05,, 20:01
due to your complete lack of sense it never will be uptoyou either jay...

i mean idiots like you are just looking to get nuked aren't you...

So let me ask, “Who” is going to do the nuking ?

Britain, China, France, Israel, Russia or the USA ? Or maybe more speculatively Iran or North Korea ? Or yet more speculatively we ourselves (ie: India ) decide to seek martyrdom and nuke ourselves?

I somehow think none of the above.

Or is it by a nuclear weapon aka JDAM (Jihadi Directed Atomic Munition) that fell off the back of a Pakistani truck which unfortunately was found by the Taliban / Al Qaeda ?

Be very clear of the consequences of any unaccounted nuking of Indian territory…….

Claiming as you do to as being Kashmiri, Mirpur might just be vaporized. At least because I am against nuking Gilgit and Baltistan as they are not ersatz Kashmiri’s and have suffered enough at the hands of the Pakistani Punjabi’s. ;)

But as they say in every cloud there is a silver lining.

The radiation from the vaporization might alter genetics just enough to spare the UK from a repetition of Bradford and Oldham. :eek:

Entirely an aside to what was posted above.

Whats does 786 mean? I do understand ibad numbers. :cool:

Jay
26 Nov 05,, 20:31
due to your complete lack of sense it never will be uptoyou either jay...

i mean idiots like you are just looking to get nuked aren't you...

whoa, Einstein, I never knew rag head Talibans gotta nuke and a delivery system that can reach India. And incase bombing PoK would nuke India, then the same wudve happened during Kargil, do you ever wonder why it never happened?? ;)

Enjoy the bon homie it will never last, PoK here comes the laser guided munition. :tongue:

Jay
26 Nov 05,, 20:35
Why should INdian even contribute to the peace keeping force when the UNSC seems so reluctant to admit us.

India contributes so many soldiers because there is a belief amongs our politicians that this will aid our bid for a permanent seat on the UNSC.

And frankly spekaing 99% of all the conflicts around the world are not our doing.
Thats a warped logic Gautam. We did not contribute to peace keeping so that we can gain entry to UNSC. That was never the intent, it was to show the ability of our armed forces i.e to project our power and the pure intent to help others in need.

I dont like the way you think, when you say 99% of conflicts are not ours. Yes its true, but it will not take long for it to get to your neihbourhood. Prevention is better than cure, works most of the time.

platinum786
26 Nov 05,, 21:15
because kargil was your land we took, not the other way around.

Btw fyi, we withdrew from Kargil under international pressure, world known fact, why are you getting high over it, your army was the one ordering coffins from South Africa as you had run out...

Neo
26 Nov 05,, 21:28
why are you getting high over it, your army was the one ordering coffins from South Africa as you had run out...
Really? :eek:
I didn't know that!

Jay
26 Nov 05,, 21:33
because kargil was your land we took, not the other way around.
So finally you agree Kargil and Kashmir is ours :biggrin: Great! As you see, from Kargil its clear that non nuclear limited warfare can still happen in South Asia.


Btw fyi, we withdrew from Kargil under international pressure, world known fact, why are you getting high over it, your army was the one ordering coffins from South Africa as you had run out...
Oh yeah, the wiped NLI can sure testify that, alas they are not alive anymore, are they?? So did the CDS personally told you that India ran out of coffins??

Gautam
26 Nov 05,, 23:13
Thats a warped logic Gautam. We did not contribute to peace keeping so that we can gain entry to UNSC. That was never the intent, it was to show the ability of our armed forces i.e to project our power and the pure intent to help others in need.

I dont like the way you think, when you say 99% of conflicts are not ours. Yes its true, but it will not take long for it to get to your neihbourhood. Prevention is better than cure, works most of the time.

I hate to disappoint you that majortiy of scholars and historians who have researched Nehru & Gandhi clan think other way around.

To begin with Nehru always believed that India was destined to play a part in the New World order and hence he pursued a policy of non-alignment. Nehru chose to become the voice for the developing nations and tried 2 gain from both Soviets and the Americans. Though his policy failed at many junctures it did have Indian interest at the top. It was his this belief (i.e. his vision of India being a major role player in the coming century that made him engage India with United Nations. He believed that by engaging India @ UN he could advance India's foray on to the stage of major world powers.

Indira Gandhi too up to a huge extent followed the same policy. A very good example is when Indira Gandhi managed to appease both Richard Nixon and the Soviets. India had just suffered from a huge famine and Indira Gandhi managed to get a huge aid package from Richard Nixon and this was the time of Vietnam war. Soon after returning to India Indira Gandhi had to make a statement condeming USA for its role in Vietnam again as she tried 2 play the balance game between the Soviets & the Russians.

You must be wondering whats the point of me narrating this story. Simple for years Nehru & Gandhi Clan played the balance game to further India Interests which is very understandable. Now when you talk about INdia's role at the United Nations Peace Keeping force I say that was the reason as India wanted recognition on the world stage and again by becoming a major participating role @ UN, India could obtain a backdoor entry to the exclusive UNSC.

If u still don't trust me I suggest u get hold of this book

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0521528755/qid=1133042730/sr=8-3/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i3_xgl/202-7822099-3152614

A very well researched text.


Two highly regarded scholars come together to examine India's relationship with the world's major powers and its own search for a significant role in the international system. Central to the argument is India's belief that the acquisition of an independent nuclear capability is key to obtaining such status. The book details the major constraints at the international, domestic and perceptual levels that India has faced in this endeavor. It concludes, through a detailed comparison of India's power capabilities, that India is indeed a rising power, but that significant systemic and domestic changes will be necessary before it can achieve its goal. The book examines the prospects and implications of India's integration into the major-power system in the twenty-first century. Given recent developments, the book is extremely timely. Its incisive analysis will be illuminating for students, policy makers, and for anyone wishing to understand the region in greater depth.

surely Jay you fail to understand the larger picture. These conflicts have already engulfed us all, they are not on our borders but are deep within our borders.

The only way to safeguard our country is to focus within our country and quell these insurgencies rather than go peace keeping around the world. Even though I am an ardent supporter of IraQ War, I fail to see why should India help when

A) The other three members of UNSC have made it clear that they will not help under any circumstances i.e. even if the help was needed to stablise Iraq.

Surely the French, Chinese & the Russians understand the gravity of getting bogged down in Iraq. I ask why should India contribute.

B) America, is now clear went into the War underestimating its enemies. They got everything wrong and want others 2 clean up their mess. Well I say that this is the job of the French, Russians and the Chinese after all they are the permanent UNSC members not India.

Finally Prevention is better than cure that's why I say India should refrain from getting bogged down in Iraq. We have plenty of our own problems, last thing we want is crazy Islamic Fundamentalists running around our country blowing our people up.

Gautam
26 Nov 05,, 23:25
because kargil was your land we took, not the other way around.

Btw fyi, we withdrew from Kargil under international pressure, world known fact, why are you getting high over it, your army was the one ordering coffins from South Africa as you had run out...


Halucinating or dreaming is good as long as you do it all by yourself and not in public.

Kargil is yours hmm, YA RIGHT. I will not get into a debate with you about who Kargil belongs to because I doubt you have the ability to get any facts straight and correct but lemme put in a blunt fashion, assuming I take your word, well..................................Kargil is now India's. Have balls???? :rolleyes: than get it back. (Even though I fail to understand how could it have belonged to you in the first place, but that's something u can't understand)


Your second point, you withdrew under pressure, hmm ok lemme break your dreams and bring you to reality

A bbc report on 4th of July 1999

India announces it has taken the key Tiger Hill peak following an all-out assault, as it prepares to respond to a joint statement by Pakistan's prime minister Nawaz Sharif and US President Bill Clinton agree that "concrete steps will be taken" to restore the Line of Control.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_385000/385534.stm

Ok lemme tell u one of the resons that made Pakistan pull out


In a skilful use of naval power in the form of ‘Operation Talwar’, the ‘Eastern Fleet’ joined the ‘Western Naval Fleet’ and blocked the Arabian sea routes of Pakistan. Apart from a deterrent, the former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharief later disclosed that Pakistan was left with just six days of fuel (POL) to sustain itself if a full fledged war broke out.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/kargil-99.htm

India had the ability to choke Pakistan's fuel supply and not even uncle Sam could have done anything about it.


Point 5203 was re-captured on June 21, 1999 and Khalubar was re-captured on July 6, 1999. Within the next few days, further attacks were pressed home against the remaining Pakistani posts in the Batalik sub-sector and these fell quickly after being pulverised by Artillery fire. Once again, Artillery firepower played an important part in softening the defences and destroying the enemy's battalion headquarters and logistics infrastructure.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/kargil-99.htm

And finally yes US pressured Pakistan but I don't understand what did Pakistan think that they could hang on to those posts and once the USA intervened forcing both India and Pakistan to agree to a ceasefire that Paksitan would retain control of Tiger Hill.

So sad that Indian Army and Indian Airforce managed to kick those Jihadi's back to stone age.

Next time research your topic before blabbing up on some taboid report.
I can bet a 1000 bucks you never had clue that Pakistan had only 6 days of fuel left during Kargil war.

You know??? What that could have done to Pakistan. We could have brought your economy 2 a grinding halt but hell all Pakistan cares about is Jihad :rolleyes:

Ray
27 Nov 05,, 03:06
Originally Posted by platinum786
due to your complete lack of sense it never will be uptoyou either jay...

i mean idiots like you are just looking to get nuked aren't you..

A minor correction, if I may.

In a war, people die.

Coffins are a dignified way of carrying the dead.

In the earlier times, the dead were either cremated or buried in situ.

During the Kargil War, it was decided that the body should be given the last rites at the native place of the soldier so that the people realised the sacrifice made.

Hence the demand for coffins.

Coffins are not produced in India which are capable of withstanding long distant haul since coffins are not in great demand as majority of Indians are cremated!

These coffins are specialised for long distance haul and capable of screening the odours from within.

Ray
27 Nov 05,, 03:13
there have been plenty killed in iraw yet you will not send troops there...

it's unfeasible and unnessacery.

India's strategic interest in Iraq and in Afghanistan are two different kettle of fish.

Hence, troops under the UN flag in Iraq from India, but not otherwise.

This is working out fine for India since the US has no quibbles over the issue.

Ray
27 Nov 05,, 03:25
Well I am personally against the whole concept of the United Nations. It is nothing but a horse trading table marred by bureaucracy and corruption. Everyone does what they feel like,

Lets take Iraq war as an example, the only reason the French-Russian-Chinese did not side with the Americans & the British was because they knew all the fruits would go 2 the Anglo-Saxon companies, not because they really gave a dam abt peace.

The UN is bs where things never get done as one would want them2 be. Not a day has passed since I have not read more revelations about what Kofi Anan's son has been doing, buying luxury cars under his father's name 2 exempt them from Duty and tax.

Why should INdian even contribute to the peace keeping force when the UNSC seems so reluctant to admit us.

India contributes so many soldiers because there is a belief amongs our politicians that this will aid our bid for a permanent seat on the UNSC.

And frankly spekaing 99% of all the conflicts around the world are not our doing.

It is fashionable to debunk the UN ever since the UN did not play ball with the US.

The skeletons in the cupboard was there for a very long time and should have been exposed long ago, but it was fished out since the UN did not play ball.

There are US companies and individuals who are also involved and hence it would have been common knowledge with the FBI and CIA. Therefore, one does not have to be a brilliant strategist to realise why the exposure was only done after Kofi Anan too went against the Iraq War.

QED.

The argument that wars are not the handiwork of India and so India should not contribute is not a correct line.

Every country that can contribute to maintain peace in the world should.

While debunking the UN and its Forces, it would be worthwhile to check how many genocides they have been able to halt and how many they haven't. Along with the same, it would be also necessary to note how many times the European countries have shafted the effort of the UN Forces. Please see my post on the chicanery that was perpetuated in Belgian Congo.

Therefore, one should be wary to follow the flavour of the times and instead analyse to observe the political chicanery behind the political hawhaw that is shirilly proclaimed from the rooftops.

Corruption in high places, moral as also physical, manifests itself in all the countries.

Ray
27 Nov 05,, 03:38
Platinum,

Pakistan did not withdraw from Kargil under international pressure.

They were made to withdraw by the Indian Army action.

The international pressure that you speak of is interesting since Nawaz Sharif on the advice of Musharraf went hotfoot to the US for help to extricate itself from the mess they had created themselves.

At that moment, there was as live possibility of India escalating the war and enlarge the area of conflict all along the border.

Unlike the earlier times, when Uncle Sam and others came to Pakistan's rescue, this time Pakistan was totally isolated!

Thus, it did not make sense for Pakistan to hang around.

Of course, you will say that Pak would use the nuke. If they did, they would be sent to Kingdon come, not only by India but by others, since that would give a good excuse to vaporise not so much Pakistan, but the scourge called the terrorists.

What Nixon's cruise missile failed to do, a nuke would do adequately.

In so far, as Indian interest in Afghanistan is concerned, google and you will find.

indianguy4u
27 Nov 05,, 07:28
Halucinating or dreaming is good as long as you do it all by yourself and not in public.

Kargil is yours hmm, YA RIGHT. I will not get into a debate with you about who Kargil belongs to because I doubt you have the ability to get any facts straight and correct but lemme put in a blunt fashion, assuming I take your word, well..................................Kargil is now India's. Have balls???? :rolleyes: than get it back. (Even though I fail to understand how could it have belonged to you in the first place, but that's something u can't understand)


Your second point, you withdrew under pressure, hmm ok lemme break your dreams and bring you to reality

A bbc report on 4th of July 1999

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/south_asia/newsid_385000/385534.stm

Ok lemme tell u one of the resons that made Pakistan pull out



http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/kargil-99.htm

India had the ability to choke Pakistan's fuel supply and not even uncle Sam could have done anything about it.



http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/kargil-99.htm

And finally yes US pressured Pakistan but I don't understand what did Pakistan think that they could hang on to those posts and once the USA intervened forcing both India and Pakistan to agree to a ceasefire that Paksitan would retain control of Tiger Hill.

So sad that Indian Army and Indian Airforce managed to kick those Jihadi's back to stone age.

Next time research your topic before blabbing up on some taboid report.
I can bet a 1000 bucks you never had clue that Pakistan had only 6 days of fuel left during Kargil war.

You know??? What that could have done to Pakistan. We could have brought your economy 2 a grinding halt but hell all Pakistan cares about is Jihad :rolleyes:
Guatam,
This guy platinum is a mod from PDF. U may know the shining qualities of pdf in wet dreaming, boasting etc etc, this ppl just dont see the real reasons . They love to live in wonderland. This ppl u can say are graduates of pakistan's world famous maddarssa & u know whats taught over there. Little rational in arguing with such fellas :biggrin:.

platinum786
27 Nov 05,, 11:15
Gautam, i suppose you are unaware that in the standoff of 2002....Pakistani navy managed to elecytronically jam one of your ships and all of it's controls for several hours....

google it...

Kargil was an experiment that escalated...to see how far eah side would go...eventaully we where forced to ack down due to spinless bastards like Nawaz Sharif.

Gautam
27 Nov 05,, 11:58
Gautam, i suppose you are unaware that in the standoff of 2002....Pakistani navy managed to elecytronically jam one of your ships and all of it's controls for several hours....

google it...

Kargil was an experiment that escalated...to see how far eah side would go...eventaully we where forced to ack down due to spinless bastards like Nawaz Sharif.

May be u r right but u mind explaining me what kind of a country sends in 4000 troops from (Norther Infantry Ligh ) and when they all are killed refuses to accept their bodies.

The Indian Army ended up burrying them now that is pathetic and surely u didn't know that or should I say you chose to ignore it.

Oh one more suggestion by the way,

all this hype and boast by you, makes me laugh my ass off give you are always trying 2 play down India infront of Pakistan but in reality the world see's it the other way around.

The sooner you stop competing against us the better for you. India in the last 50 years has had 3 oops I should say 4 wars with you and still managed to progress on the path of prosperity (that means lifting 140 million people out f poverty) though I cannot say the same for Pakistan.

Either way you sound like one of those people who would even invent arguements to win but hollow arguements hardly stand for long.

Ciao and grow up. This is just a forum, no one's gonna kill or grab anyone's land here hahahaha

bull
27 Nov 05,, 12:07
Gautam, i suppose you are unaware that in the standoff of 2002....Pakistani navy managed to elecytronically jam one of your ships and all of it's controls for several hours.....

bother to post it here,


eventaully we where forced to ack down due to spinless bastards like Nawaz Sharif.

And who elected this bastard? what shud we call those who elects bastards and spineless to rule them. :cool:

indianguy4u
27 Nov 05,, 12:31
Pakistani navy managed to elecytronically jam one of your ships and all of it's controls for several hours....Is that in response to IAF mig29 locking on to PAF f16s :biggrin:.

Gautam
27 Nov 05,, 14:15
Gautam, i suppose you are unaware that in the standoff of 2002....Pakistani navy managed to elecytronically jam one of your ships and all of it's controls for several hours....

google it...

Kargil was an experiment that escalated...to see how far eah side would go...eventaully we where forced to ack down due to spinless bastards like Nawaz Sharif.


I am not aware of this incident but I will take ur word (even though you are from the higly respected PDF) that ur navy managed to jam one of our ships electronically for some hours, but platinum786 there are more than one ships in Indian Navy and don't forget the 6 days of oil. We could have brought you to your knees not that you stood any higher than that, lol but either way whats the point of having jammed one of our ships???? Is that supp 2 satisfy your hollow ego. :rolleyes:

You can put it anyway u like it, (u withdrew under presurre, U lost, u got scared, or didn't have any guts to carry on)
The bottom line is and the history will say India repelled the insurgents and sent them 2 heaven 2 claim 72 whores.

hammer
27 Nov 05,, 14:46
Gautam, i suppose you are unaware that in the standoff of 2002....Pakistani navy managed to elecytronically jam one of your ships and all of it's controls for several hours....

Huh? what? you can't jam enemy ships from the safe confines of Karachi harbor,my dear friend. You gotta come out first. :biggrin:




Kargil was an experiment that escalated...to see how far eah side would go...eventaully we where forced to ack down due to spinless bastards like Nawaz Sharif.

You guys should thank Nawaz for saving the remaining jihadis and your army personnel from complete annihilation.

Gautam
27 Nov 05,, 14:58
Huh? what? you can't jam enemy ships from the safe confines of Karachi harbor,my dear friend. You gotta come out first. :biggrin:




You guys should thank Nawaz for saving the remaining jihadis and your army personnel from complete annihilation.
No point on arguing with the highly educated & well infromaed Platinum. We are bound to lose any arguement given his high quality of Madrassa Education and desire to reach the heavens for the 72 virgins.

bull
27 Nov 05,, 15:36
Huh? what? you can't jam enemy ships from the safe confines of Karachi harbor,my dear friend. You gotta come out first. :biggrin:

:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

indianguy4u
27 Nov 05,, 16:51
Huh? what? you can't jam enemy ships from the safe confines of Karachi harbor,my dear friend. You gotta come out first. :biggrin:Never read in any forums incld the pdf, & he boast about it now.

raj
27 Nov 05,, 17:01
Gautam, i suppose you are unaware that in the standoff of 2002....Pakistani navy managed to elecytronically jam one of your ships and all of it's controls for several hours....

google it...

Kargil was an experiment that escalated...to see how far eah side would go...eventaully we where forced to ack down due to spinless bastards like Nawaz Sharif.

thats just one isolated incident on high seas, and the best thing about this is that it is also found in archives of indian media, thats where u differ. u would not find anything discriminating against in ur own media. thats where we excell.
BTW do i need to remind u of Mig-25 Recce missions over ur capital city of pure land

Gautam
27 Nov 05,, 19:18
How typical though that we managed 2 change the topic of the thread thanks 2 some morons.

I need 2 practise more restraint om namah shiva :biggrin:

lemontree
28 Nov 05,, 05:45
Gautam, i suppose you are unaware that in the standoff of 2002....Pakistani navy managed to elecytronically jam one of your ships and all of it's controls for several hours....

google it...


Please post a link. I just have a techincal point to make - you cannot jam one ship, since the radio waves cannot be aimed at one particular ship. The jamming is a different ball game and you five out your position and resources by that act.
My guess is that a Coast Guard cutter may have the victim.
But please do post a link. This is intresting...

Kargil was an experiment that escalated...to see how far eah side would go...eventaully we where forced to ack down due to spinless bastards like Nawaz Sharif.
When will you guys see the futality and failure of that war. It was not Nawaz by Musharraf who had failed. Had Nawaz not gone and saved face then the war would have escalated.

Ray
28 Nov 05,, 06:34
The Indian Army ended up burrying them now that is pathetic and surely u didn't know that or should I say you chose to ignore it.


The NLI soldiers fought as well as any other soldiers in the world and they faced overwhelming odds having been abandoned to their ways.

Their dead was not claimed since they were Shias and Pakistan has not much time for the Shias.

In fact, there is an important Pakistani cleric and a MP, who has demanded that the Shias also be declared as "kaffirs". There is a thread/ post on this issue in this forum.

indianguy4u
28 Nov 05,, 07:34
The NLI soldiers fought as well as any other soldiers in the world and they faced overwhelming odds having been abandoned to their ways.

Their dead was not claimed since they were Shias and Pakistan has not much time for the Shias.

In fact, there is an important Pakistani cleric and a MP, who has demanded that the Shias also be declared as "kaffirs". There is a thread/ post on this issue in this forum.
After declaring ahmadiyya as non-moslems, they may be successfull in getting this demand too.

platinum786
28 Nov 05,, 10:53
72 is a good weekend....god had better pay better than that....

Gautam
28 Nov 05,, 16:04
72 is a good weekend....god had better pay better than that....
haha
as I thought you came up short with any arguements.

Hell man PDF has trained u well.

platinum786
29 Nov 05,, 23:47
thers more **** chatted on our forum than any other i've ever seen....

we have every looony presenting his pov, that's why i love it.

seriously speaking does anyone know where 72 virgins came from?
i've found no evidence for it yet....

lemontree
30 Nov 05,, 05:44
seriously speaking does anyone know where 72 virgins came from?
i've found no evidence for it yet....
Ya...what is the logic behind the number 72?

platinum786
30 Nov 05,, 11:36
i don't know....

i've only heard about it on the internet....

Ray
30 Nov 05,, 16:37
72 must have been a lucky number in those days! :tongue:

Samudra
30 Nov 05,, 16:42
Goes to show how much sexual frustration people those days were subject to even with a religious approval for four wives, and sex with slaves.

Poor people.
Pity the camels !! :biggrin:

bull
01 Dec 05,, 07:34
Poor people.
Pity the camels !! :biggrin:

:biggrin: :biggrin:

indianguy4u
02 Dec 05,, 06:19
thers more **** chatted on our forum than any other i've ever seen....

we have every looony presenting his pov, that's why i love it.

seriously speaking does anyone know where 72 virgins came from?
i've found no evidence for it yet....
I suggest look in ur mirror if u ever found some time. Comparing apples & oranges!! Compare ur pdf with p-df of anshan or even better to the of gupshup or pak def link etc. Thats the best comparison for site like urs :biggrin:.

Hawk_eye
05 Dec 05,, 17:48
I hate it when discussions go off topic, but seriously there is another way the Indians could manage this situation while keeping affiliated risk to a minimum, hire out the security and protective detail to the various PMCs or PSP like Sandline or Blackwater, or even better send it your own company... Afterall BWO is also an Indian concern is it not?

TIP: The Security Business in Afghanistan is big money...

Ray
05 Dec 05,, 18:34
Hawk Eye,

What is BWO?

lemontree
06 Dec 05,, 05:16
I hate it when discussions go off topic, but seriously there is another way the Indians could manage this situation while keeping affiliated risk to a minimum, hire out the security and protective detail to the various PMCs or PSP like Sandline or Blackwater, or even better send it your own company... Afterall BWO is also an Indian concern is it not?

TIP: The Security Business in Afghanistan is big money...
PMCs ....charge far too much.
Beisdes, they do not have security clearence from us. Sandline does not exist, its CEO Lt.Col Tim Spicer has started another agency called Aegis Defence Services. India does not have any PMC per say (in the sense like Blackwater, KBR, MPRI.. etc).