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  • F/A-18E vs. Su-37

    http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/...mcs/flash.html

    To my surprise I didn't find any threads on JHMCS. This is important technology. It puts the heads up display onto the visor of a fighter pilot's helmet. This allows the HUD to always stay in view and the pilot to lock onto an enemy simply by looking at him. Combined with the AIM-9X high off-boresight missile this will be a devastating weapon.

    The US Navy had to make a choice between this and thrust vectoring for the F/A-18E Super Hornet and they chose this. The Airforce also wants to use them on the F/A-22 Raptor. I just want to know what you guys think about it. If a non-vectored thrust aircraft with the JHMCS and AIM-9X (example: F/A-18E) went against an enemy vectored thrust aircraft without it, (example: Su-37) which one do you think would get the kill in a close range dogfight.

    ((my other thread wasn't attacting any vistors so I decided to make one with a more attention grabbing name.))
    Last edited by Insomniac; 15 Oct 05,, 06:41.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Insomniac

    The US Navy had to make a choice between this and thrust vectoring for the F/A-18E Super Hornet and they chose this.
    Well that really dsnt mean that thrust vectoring offers lesser advantage. It all comes with the fact that TVC is a new technology and there are only two planes in serial production using TVC. ( F22 and SU30MKI). Leave aside using this technology for the carrier borne operations. Carrier borne operations are much more demanding than normal land based operations. Getting a TVC is one thing. then maintaining it is another. And definitely it will be much better to maintain an avionics module than a TVC which they wouldnt know how well will it perform.
    Secondly US isnt really quite ahead in TVC. For instance. The F22 uses thrust vectoring in a single axis( vertical) and has rectangular nozzles.( which come with the obvious disadvantage increased weight by a few hundred kilos and also decrease in the engine thrust). While russians have already tested an all aspect TVC with swivveling nozzles on their Mig35( am i right??). these nozzles and much lighter in weight. begin spherical and dont decrease the thrust of the engine .
    So its unfair to make this decision of Navy as a decision criteria by calling TVC as inferior.

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    • #3
      How many F22 will USN get?
      Hala Madrid!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by indianguy4u
        How many F22 will USN get?
        F22's are only for USAF.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ajaybhutani
          F22's are only for USAF.
          Any specific reasons for that?
          Hala Madrid!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Yes, the rectangular nozzles and limited movement of up and down are called 2D thrust vectoring. The former Soviet Union use all aspect 3D thrust vectoring that makes the Su-30MKI, Su-37 Terminator, and Mig-1.44 much more manuverable. I know the F/A-18E Super Hornet is replacing the Tomcat with the biggest difference being that it only requires 15% of labor hours of the Tomcat. Every Super Hornet would be fueled, repaired, and ready to fight in less than half the time it takes to freshen up an F-14. Putting TVC on a F/A-18E would make it harder to maintain on a carrier deck.

            However I still would like to know which you think would win. TVC and the JHMCS give each pilot different advantages in air-to-air combat.

            Comment


            • #7
              There was going to be F-22N varient built for the USN, as to the guidelines of the AFX program, although it never got off the drawning board. It's was proposed in 92-93. It was raptor air frame, except larger. It's internal weapons bay was larger, it had PW 7000 engines which would of been a good bit smaller. it was unveiled in 1994, and was shot down almost right as the plans were unveiled. The F-22 navy varient was shot down for the same reason the F-117 nany varient was shot down, they just were to expensive, and did things the navy didn't need them to do. Also I believe sleath tech doesn't work nearly as well in a naval environment, due to the fact that the navy add ons, like tail hook, larger landing gear, ect.. would take away from the F-22's sleath.
              Last edited by Raven; 15 Oct 05,, 18:57.

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              • #8
                I hope that maybe the F/A-22B or other future version will have a 3D TV nozzle. That's just sad that the F-22 only has a crappy 2D one.

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                • #9
                  The 2d nozzles are just as good in an aircraft with the roll rate of the F-22.

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                  • #10
                    The 2D nozzles on the Raptor allow it to roll quicker than the Terminator, but the 3D nozzles make the Terminator bank better and make sharper turns. The Su-37 can make manuvers that the F/A-22 cannot, such as controlled backwards flight for a short period of time. The 3D nozzles also make the Su- 37 able to increase thrust better that the Raptor, but it is still not as fast because of the airframe.

                    However, when the Airforce mounts the JHMCS on the F/A-22 it will be the only aircraft in the world to have both TVC and the JHMCS.

                    The Israelis have a different, less advanced Helmet Mounted Sight that is used on their F-15s and the Russians are trying to make one of their own for the Mig-29 and Su-30.

                    In the future combat looks like it be who sees first, kills first.
                    Last edited by Insomniac; 16 Oct 05,, 23:10.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Raven
                      There was going to be F-22N varient built for the USN, as to the guidelines of the AFX program, although it never got off the drawning board. It's was proposed in 92-93. It was raptor air frame, except larger. It's internal weapons bay was larger, it had PW 7000 engines which would of been a good bit smaller. it was unveiled in 1994, and was shot down almost right as the plans were unveiled. The F-22 navy varient was shot down for the same reason the F-117 nany varient was shot down, they just were to expensive, and did things the navy didn't need them to do. Also I believe sleath tech doesn't work nearly as well in a naval environment, due to the fact that the navy add ons, like tail hook, larger landing gear, ect.. would take away from the F-22's sleath.
                      Your stealth doesn't work worth a dam', either, jag-off. I've acquired and locked-on; Fox One, dickhead.

                      Now, bail out, and call for a Jolly Green pick-up. You're outta this AoR, loser.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by indianguy4u
                        Any specific reasons for that?
                        Chair Force has a bigger lobby.
                        F/A-18E/F Super Hornet: The Honda Accord of fighters.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Funny I don't remeber being so arrogant when I was 19, o well. You want to screw with my integrity feel free to do so, your only making yourself look stupid. Evertime I am perusing and find one of your posts, I laugh my ass off. You know thats why I'm here cause I don't give a ****. I mean all these comments make ya sound like a De La Hoya, but your just be a ****ing Vargas, get over it. The truth is ya think your a cop or something attempt to catch me on this board lie, not so much my friend. Your a bad cop and I'm the ****in Serpico. So there, sorry to hurt the thread, but Mr. Vargas had to attack me once again.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Raven
                            Funny I don't remeber being so arrogant when I was 19, o well. You want to screw with my integrity feel free to do so, your only making yourself look stupid. Evertime I am perusing and find one of your posts, I laugh my ass off. You know thats why I'm here cause I don't give a ****. I mean all these comments make ya sound like a De La Hoya, but your just be a ****ing Vargas, get over it. The truth is ya think your a cop or something attempt to catch me on this board lie, not so much my friend. Your a bad cop and I'm the ****in Serpico. So there, sorry to hurt the thread, but Mr. Vargas had to attack me once again.
                            Tell you what, 'sir': I'm your inferior in rank, if you are who you say you are. So, why don't you call me out on my insubordination, as it's your duty to so do, when I tell you to suck my unit?

                            Private message me, and I'll give you my CO's phone number, and you can bust me for my crime. THAT would be what a decent officer would do...

                            Mods, please get this idiot out of here. It's dumbasses like this that drag the board into a direction that it's your mission to prevent. Rub him out like the piss-spot that he is.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Raven
                              Funny I don't remeber being so arrogant when I was 19, o well. You want to screw with my integrity feel free to do so, your only making yourself look stupid. Evertime I am perusing and find one of your posts, I laugh my ass off. You know thats why I'm here cause I don't give a ****. I mean all these comments make ya sound like a De La Hoya, but your just be a ****ing Vargas, get over it. The truth is ya think your a cop or something attempt to catch me on this board lie, not so much my friend. Your a bad cop and I'm the ****in Serpico. So there, sorry to hurt the thread, but Mr. Vargas had to attack me once again.
                              I certainly don't know who you are or are not, but Bluesman's credibility rating with me is AAA, so maybe you should put your argument down on the floor and slowly back away from it.

                              -dale

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