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View Full Version : What happened 2 indian 126 multiorole fighters



Proud Indian
19 Sep 05,, 09:22
Wat happened ?
Havented heard any thin new

mig 29
Mirage 2000, mIrage2000-5
f-16's
Mig 35
Eurofighter
Jas gripen

Wat do u rekon IAf is gonna get its hands on?

indianguy4u
19 Sep 05,, 09:38
There is no reason to start new thread mate(on the same matter). If u are regular u will know whats happening.

Asim Aquil
19 Sep 05,, 09:44
Whats with the impatience. They said they'll have one selected by the end of the year. If not by the next year at most.

They ARE coming.

There are a lot of political considerations.

India's trying to find a solution that keeps everyone happy.

lemontree
19 Sep 05,, 11:41
Wat happened ?
Havented heard any thin new

mig 29
Mirage 2000, mIrage2000-5
f-16's
Mig 35
Eurofighter
Jas gripen

Wat do u rekon IAf is gonna get its hands on?
You got to wait for Santa, Christmas is still a long way off. :)

ASG
19 Sep 05,, 12:19
India's trying to find a solution that keeps everyone happy.

I hope the politicians dont compromise on the country's security while keeping everyone happy. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Sameer
20 Sep 05,, 23:30
Defence Minister says decision to be made by year end.

indianguy4u
26 Dec 05,, 08:36
How does F/A 18 E/F matches up to F16s block 50/52 or even block 60? I am talking of land based ones [f18s] which are in MRCA competition for IAF order of 126 AC.

BenRoethig
26 Dec 05,, 13:08
Longer range, higher payload, more power, better radar (I assume they will be block II), but not as maneuverable.

Maxor
27 Dec 05,, 01:51
a fair amount more expensive and as the f-18 assemly line is in the process of being shutdown unlikely.

ASG
29 Dec 05,, 16:03
You got to wait for Santa, Christmas is still a long way off. :)

Christmas is gone, and we didn't get any gifts from Santa! :frown:

Where are my 126 fighters?! :frown: :frown:

The_Burning_Kid
29 Dec 05,, 16:28
a fair amount more expensive and as the f-18 assemly line is in the process of being shutdown unlikely.

Is that the same line that produces the Super Hornets? From what I know, the Super Hornet is still being ordered by the Navy.

tphuang
30 Dec 05,, 02:45
Longer range, higher payload, more power, better radar (I assume they will be block II), but not as maneuverable.
manuverability will be dependent on how much gas F-18 and F-16 each hold when they are facing off against each other.

SuperFlanker
30 Dec 05,, 07:23
I think the AESA radars and the larger payloads in the Super Hornets will make up for any lack of maneuverability.

giggs88
30 Dec 05,, 11:17
Where are my 126 fighters?! :frown: :frown:



All talk, and no play??? :eek: :eek:

Samudra
30 Dec 05,, 12:00
Phew!
I told you guys!

Its going to be atleast another year before a decision is taken.

And I dont think they are going to buy 125 airframes...its 200 pieces now. :cool:

indianguy4u
30 Dec 05,, 12:02
Phew!
I told you guys!

Its going to be atleast another year before a decision is taken.

And I dont think they are going to buy 125 airframes...its 200 pieces now. :cool:
But on which A/C are ur bet on?

ASG
30 Dec 05,, 15:18
But on which A/C are ur bet on?

I would bet on the Russian or the French aircraft. Even the Swedish aircraft can't be ruled out, even though it seems a fat chance for the Gripen.

India is already raising a squadron for the Russian Su-30 MKI Flanker, so i wonder what other Russian aircraft would fit in better than the Flanker in all scenarios.

French A/C seem to be the obvious choice as far as common sense is concerned. IAF already has enough experience flying the Jaguars and Mirages.

Moreover, again the issue of American reliablity comes into play if US aircraft are to be considered. India IMO would only consider the F-18 Super Hornet. But what good is an aircraft, without armament, which US might consider supplying only when it feels like.

ASG
30 Dec 05,, 15:22
Jags are not in runing, while m2k-5 & rafales are from french for MRCA contract.

I realised that, but a bit too late. :biggrin:

indianguy4u
30 Dec 05,, 15:24
You edit the sentence, while i delete my post :).

highsea
30 Dec 05,, 20:15
...as the f-18 assemly line is in the process of being shutdown unlikely.Gee, you better tell Boeing.....

shadow
01 Jan 06,, 06:16
I guess the deal, wud be spit between super hornets (with limited TOT, AESA and political considerations) and Mig 35 (complete TOT). I sincerely hope Rafale is considered though!!!

tphuang
01 Jan 06,, 07:46
I think the AESA radars and the larger payloads in the Super Hornets will make up for any lack of maneuverability.
i seriously don't think APG-79 is any more advanced than APG-80..

Captain Drunk
21 Apr 06,, 02:58
Germany's Merkel to push Eurofighter at India talks

Berlin: German Chancellor Angela Merkel is expected to press Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to consider buying the Eurofighter combat aircraft at talks next week, said a report to be published Thursday.

The Berliner Zeitung newspaper quoted Germany's ambassador to India, Bernd Muetzelburg as saying: "We hope the Eurofighter will be able to compete directly with other (aircraft)."

Merkel plans to make a pitch for the Eurofighter during Manmohan Singh's three-day visit to Berlin and the Hanover trade fair from April 22 to 25, the paper said.

Wolfdietrich Hoeveler, Eurofighter's vice-president for communications in Germany, confirmed his company was eager to compete for a planned Indian purchase of 120 new fighter jets announced earlier this month.

"I would be very happy if Frau Merkel is supporting our efforts," said Hoeveler, adding: "But I cannot confirm it."

Hoeveler said Eurofighter had contacted the Indian government and was still waiting for details of the tender.

Other jets likely to be considered by India are the F-16 from the US and France's Raphael. India'a air force currently relies on ageing Russian MiGs and French Mirages.

The Eurofighter Typhoon is built jointly by Britain, Germany, Italy and Spain. Britain has ordered 232 Eurofighters, Germany 180, Italy 121 and Spain 87.

Something new for a change, but I'm sure this too will fizzle out. Migs were, are and always will remain workhorses of the IAF :rolleyes:

-{SpoonmaN}-
21 Apr 06,, 04:27
The Eurofighter is pretty damn expensive, it might be out of their price range right now.

Tronic
21 Apr 06,, 04:40
but well worth every buck... i would be nice to cut down from 126 to 60 aircraft and buy the eurofighter...

but then again, we need more numbers to replace our squadrons

Captain Drunk
21 Apr 06,, 05:09
but well worth every buck... i would be nice to cut down from 126 to 60 aircraft and buy the eurofighter...

but then again, we need more numbers to replace our squadrons

Nope, like Russia and China, India's need is more in numerical strength with less cost of hardware over fighters with costly software electronics suites. A high speed Foxbat with long-range missiles that would fall in the class of an HVAA fighter like F-14, could cost much less than the Super Hornet, that fails to make it to Mach 2. No wonder Russia's produced more than 500 Foxbats and 500 Foxhounds.

Garry
21 Apr 06,, 06:54
Few days back I was on conference of MiG Corporation on their 2005 IFRS results. I met their a guy from MiG whom know for long. He told me that their bid to Indians is very competitive now. The MiG-29M2 which they proposed is actually a whole different aircraft.... though much more expensive that standard MiG-29. The management wants to assign the new serial number to this aircraft - MiG-33.

Its frame was revised, with use of titanium and carbon fiber with titanium ribs. The internal fuel almost doubled. Its engine would have much higher service life on subsonic modes - the disc and a blades of a high pressure rotor would be made out of one monocrystal sh..t (I really did not understood how it is possible) meaning that no need to inspect each blade and change it when its life is over, instead a whole disc is to be replaced after 10,000 HOURS! Some many other features which I did not understood completelly.

He told that MiG-33 would remain light..... but will not be short-range anymore. Its range would come close to that of un-upgraded Su-27.

What I got is that it will have now PESA radar, but Indians will be guaranteed that they will upgrade radar to Active Phase Array radar at the price of Russian Air Force by 2012.

He also told that from very begining Indians required 3 Dimentional Independent TVC and only MiG has it in their product. (I did not understood what Independent atually mean and why it may add to maneuvrability.... why should nozles blow in opposite directions? wouldn't they just neutralize each other?)

And finally he added that NONE of the other bidders agreed to include almost all Indian requirements, even some of which are contradicting (one of which is buying best for nothing) :)

indianguy4u
21 Apr 06,, 09:31
Few days back I was on conference of MiG Corporation on their 2005 IFRS results. I met their a guy from MiG whom know for long. He told me that their bid to Indians is very competitive now. The MiG-29M2 which they proposed is actually a whole different aircraft.... though much more expensive that standard MiG-29. The management wants to assign the new serial number to this aircraft - MiG-33. The new designation is Mig 35 OVT.


He told that MiG-33 would remain light..... but will not be short-range anymore. Its range would come close to that of un-upgraded Su-27.Does that comes to 2500+ km?

Coming to chance of Mig or others, IAF ealier wanted M2k-5 & its requirements were tailored to that in mind. But since then france has told of their inability of keeping m2k lines open for any more time. (contract wont be given untill 2008-9)

Garry
21 Apr 06,, 09:42
The new designation is Mig 35 OVT.

Does that comes to 2500+ km?

Coming to chance of Mig or others, IAF ealier wanted M2k-5 & its requirements were tailored to that in mind. But since then france has told of their inability of keeping m2k lines open for any more time. (contract wont be given untill 2008-9)

May be MiG-35 OVT. I am getting lost in their so many names.

Regarding range I was not told figure but he stated "range which is just as Su-27UBK before it was upgraded"

By the way they did not answer the question about fifth generation fighter project, asked by Indian reporter. Indian reporter asked if India will participate in development of the light fifth generation fighter. His reply was - It is not MIG who would decide. Design of fifth generation fighter means SHARING a lot of sensitive information which can be done in case if politically FIRM ALY RELATIONSHIPS are established.

indianguy4u
21 Apr 06,, 09:51
By the way they did not answer the question about fifth generation fighter project, asked by Indian reporter. Indian reporter asked if India will participate in development of the light fifth generation fighter. His reply was - It is not MIG who would decide. Design of fifth generation fighter means SHARING a lot of sensitive information which can be done in case if politically FIRM ALY RELATIONSHIPS are established.Well there is rumour going on (various india forums & news reports) that IAF is not interested in PAKFA b'coz its a "HEAVY" class AC. And that Mig's single engine 5 gen AC was more favourable for IAF.

stone_cold
19 May 06,, 05:53
Isnt MiG-29M2 the same aircraft as Mig-35?

indianguy4u
19 May 06,, 06:01
Isnt MiG-29M2 the same aircraft as Mig-35?
Yes.

BTW Garry, what changes have Mig Corp done on the airframes? And how much diff is it from the ealier version Mig 29s which IAF already have.

Garry
19 May 06,, 07:17
Isnt MiG-29M2 the same aircraft as Mig-35?

I was told so on press conference.


Yes.

BTW Garry, what changes have Mig Corp done on the airframes? And how much diff is it from the ealier version Mig 29s which IAF already have.

On the press conference of annual results of MiG Corp I met one old friend who used to work for Sukhoi and then went to MiG when the corporation was taken over by Irkut/Sukhoi managers.

We talked a little, and then I asked about Indian contract... He stated that MiG puts this contract as ABSOLUTE MOST IMPORTANT PRIORITY.... he said that Indians will get the opportunities which they had with Sukhoi - fine tune product for their own needs for GOOD CASH!

OK. Sorry back to the issue. I got very little. From what I understood that MiG-29M2 was already modified.... and airframe of MiG-29M2 will be changed only slightly.....

but will be modified further. So Indians will get MiG-29M2 eixisting version initially but then will start receiving the one tailored to their need..... while earlier deliveries would be called back, upgraded and returned.

He told that Airframe on proposed new version of MiG-29 would be slightly different. It will be more expensive but will be lighter due to use of titanium. It already got a fin with fuel. As you know MiG-29M2 is a bit longer than initial versions. The new Indian version will remain these dimensions. It will have almost doube the internal fuel of initial versions of MiG-29.... - around 6,000 liters the Indian MiG will also have further upgraded engines which would be 20% lighter than initial MiG-29 RD-33, have larger trust, and better economy on cruise modes. This would give new Indian MiG-29 better range....

I browsed and read in Russian language sites that MiG-29M2 has max range on internal fuel of 2,000km.... I hope that Indian version would be slightly more than that stretching combat radius!

ps. just wanted to add. Phazatron and MIG attached a guarantee that Indians would get Phazatron made active phazed array radar as soon as it is launched into serial production - AT PRICE OF RUSSIAN ARMY!!! However this would mean that Indians will not be able to use these fighters on airshows abroad and that they would have to keep some confidentiality on the radar actual capabilities.

This guarantee has date - by 2012..... all MiGs would be installed new active radar!

canoe
19 May 06,, 08:50
The only reason I could see for getting the F-18 is the more advaned tech and carrier capability.

Garry
19 May 06,, 12:36
The only reason I could see for getting the F-18 is the more advaned tech and carrier capability.

But would you really call Super Hornet a LIGHT fighter? it is not Heavy/Long range but definitelly not LIGHT.

Its take off weight is 30.000kg compared to 23,400kg of initial Hornet. Even though Russian engineers have increased max take off weight of later generation MiG-29MM2 to 22,700kg it is still close to initial 18,000 kg.

Another point - if you need a heavy/long range fighter why not to go for Flanker/Eagle? If light assumes price then F-18 would cost times more than a longer range Flanker..... So I would call Super Hornet MIDDLE fighter!

canoe
19 May 06,, 12:40
But would you really call Super Hornet a LIGHT fighter? it is not Heavy/Long range but definitelly not LIGHT.

Its take off weight is 30.000kg compared to 23,400kg of initial Hornet. Even though Russian engineers have increased max take off weight of later generation MiG-29MM2 to 22,700kg it is still close to initial 18,000 kg.

Another point - if you need a heavy/long range fighter why not to go for Flanker/Eagle? If light assumes price then F-18 would cost times more than a longer range Flanker..... So I would call Super Hornet MIDDLE fighter!

I never stated the hornet was a light fighter, although I suppose it could fit into that catagory. The hornet is a born and bred multirole fighter though. Jack of all trades, master of none.

I suggested the only two reasons I could see for getting the hornet would be the advanced avionics that come with it and the fact it can operate off a carrier at sea. If India doesn't mind spending the extra coin for them they're not all that bad for their specific role(which is basiclly being able to do everything).

canoe
19 May 06,, 13:04
Nope, like Russia and China, India's need is more in numerical strength with less cost of hardware over fighters with costly software electronics suites. A high speed Foxbat with long-range missiles that would fall in the class of an HVAA fighter like F-14, could cost much less than the Super Hornet, that fails to make it to Mach 2. No wonder Russia's produced more than 500 Foxbats and 500 Foxhounds.

Technically if you going for production numbers as superiority the F-16 wins I beleive. 4000+ aircraft produced and counting.

indianguy4u
19 May 06,, 17:33
The only reason I could see for getting the F-18 is the more advaned tech and carrier capability.
None of the IN carriers have catapult sys, which is required for SHs. Also its IAF & not IN which has tendered for MRCA ACs. So even if SH wins the contract, still it wont see carrier operations.

stone_cold
19 May 06,, 22:27
I think I was wrong, cause on Wikipedia they listed MiG-29M2 and MiG-35 seperately. So I believe MiG-29M2 is MiG-33 and MiG-35 isnt part of the tender. Wonder why noone corrected me :confused:


MiG-29OVT/MiG-35 "Fulcrum F": Production version of the latest MiG-29 with the proven thrust-vectoring engine that use fly-by-wire technology. The aircraft uses the same airframe of the MiG-29M1. The fighter is more agile and has an increase in range to 1,329 statute miles (2,139 km). With improved avionics, vast improvements in weapon systems, HOTAS systems, wide range of weapons of air to air and air to ground, as well as a variety of defensive and offensive avionics suite. It is no longer tied to the GCI system and would be able to conduct operations independently. It has eight weapon pylons and be able to refuel as well as carry three external fuel tanks. The aircraft is being marketed under the designation MiG-35 for potential export. Russia is promoting the aircraft to various countries in the Middle East (namely Syria and Iran), in Africa (Algeria and Sudan), Latin America (Brazil and Peru), and India, to name a few. Malaysia is evaluating the type to add to its existing MiG-29B-12 Fulcrums and to the new Su-30MKM 'Flankers', to be delivered in 2006.

MiG-29M2: Twin-seat multi-role aircraft, utilizing the MiG-29M airframe (possibly based on the cancelled MiG-29UBM). Capabilities similar to 9.15, but with LCD cockpit displays and digital flight controls. Proposed single-seat "MiG-29M1" version remains unbuilt but if constructed, it will likely be similar to the upgraded 9.41 MiG-29K.

tphuang
24 May 06,, 06:56
strange, didn't Mig offer I-2000 and remove Mig-35 from the competition?

the start of the article was like
"Asian Aerospace 2006
FORCE

Aircraft giants fight over a piece of the Indian pie
By Prasun K. Sengupta"
you can find it on numerous forums. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links to other forums here.

Also, Mig-29OVT's OVT is just saying that it uses 3D TVC and there are other upgrades to get to the Mig-29M2 standard.

indianguy4u
24 May 06,, 07:15
strange, didn't Mig offer I-2000 and remove Mig-35 from the competition?

the start of the article was like
"Asian Aerospace 2006
FORCE

Aircraft giants fight over a piece of the Indian pie
By Prasun K. Sengupta"
you can find it on numerous forums. I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links to other forums here.

Also, Mig-29OVT's OVT is just saying that it uses 3D TVC and there are other upgrades to get to the Mig-29M2 standard.
Force mag is not a reputable or even credible source for indian defence news.

Garry
24 May 06,, 12:07
Today went to Irkut Corporation 2005 results presentation (designer and manufacturer of Su-30MKI).

The president of the company stated that India and Russia will DESIGN AND MANUFACTURE a new cargo transporter - MTA.... meaning that Indian designers take part in the process. India will buy 45 aicraft then.

http://www.irkut.com/en/gallery/photo/tactik/

indianguy4u
24 May 06,, 12:48
Today went to Irkut Corporation 2005 results presentation (designer and manufacturer of Su-30MKI).

The president of the company stated that India and Russia will DESIGN AND MANUFACTURE a new cargo transporter - MTA.... meaning that Indian designers take part in the process. India will buy 45 aicraft then.

http://www.irkut.com/en/gallery/photo/tactik/
It will also be double up as a 100+ seater civilian jet, should get demand in the indian & russian mkt.

Did learned through other forums that Irkut is going through a fund shortage & thus may impact both MTA & 5 gen AC programs.

Garry
24 May 06,, 16:01
It will also be double up as a 100+ seater civilian jet, should get demand in the indian & russian mkt.

Did learned through other forums that Irkut is going through a fund shortage & thus may impact both MTA & 5 gen AC programs.

I asked about that but managers from Irkut explained to me that it will be good only for troops transport not that good as passenger aircraft.....

They explained that in order to cary heavy loades like tanks etc..... the frame is made more heavy than it is economic for a pure passenger aircraft..... hence on per seat it will be not economic...

He also explained to me that passenger aircraft converted into cargo is more competitive than a standart millitary transporter if used for a small size cargo which is loaded without ramp.

highsea
24 May 06,, 16:25
strange, didn't Mig offer I-2000 and remove Mig-35 from the competition?Why would India even consider swapping a subsonic LIF/trainer for a full-up fighter?

The I-2000 was never developed by Russia anyway, they sold it to Iran, where it's being developed as the Shafaq. Search the back threads, it's already been discussed here.

Here's some more:

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=399

tphuang
24 May 06,, 18:25
Why would India even consider swapping a subsonic LIF/trainer for a full-up fighter?

The I-2000 was never developed by Russia anyway, they sold it to Iran, where it's being developed as the Shafaq. Search the back threads, it's already been discussed here.

Here's some more:

http://www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=399
it made no sense to me either, but a lot of people on several other forums were apparently treating this as authentic news and seemed to be excited that India will have a "5th generation plane" now. I have no previous dealings with Force Mag and Indian news, so I would not know that it's not credible.

indianguy4u
25 May 06,, 05:22
I asked about that but managers from Irkut explained to me that it will be good only for troops transport not that good as passenger aircraft.....

They explained that in order to cary heavy loades like tanks etc..... the frame is made more heavy than it is economic for a pure passenger aircraft..... hence on per seat it will be not economic...

He also explained to me that passenger aircraft converted into cargo is more competitive than a standart millitary transporter if used for a small size cargo which is loaded without ramp.
Either from a news article or forums i read that MTA could be made into civilian airliner. But u being closer to event, must be knowing more.

Some specs got from the MTA video

18.5 tons payload,
870 km/h speed,
2500 km range,
Size of pressurised cabin 18.85m long,3.45m wide & 3.4m high,
ramp is rated @ 5 tons,
Its cabin can hold 82 troops or 74 paratroopers in full combact gear,
Can also carry 60 casulaties in strechers.

Serbianpsyco
27 May 06,, 13:24
well india has a lot of money but why dont you guys get 200 raffles.

hello
27 May 06,, 17:45
200 raffles? Well, that isn't such a bad idea, it gives you 200 times more chance to win the lottery. :biggrin: Anyway, India only wants 126 fighters, not 200. Rafales are the most expensive, but most capable. F/A-18E/F and MiG-35 is also good. I suggest they should eliminate the Mirage from the buy options, that thing is a really old design. India probably won't get the F-16 either though, mainly because Pakistan has them and it would look like copying. Anyway, if you desperately want to win a lottery, you can cancel the deal and go for 200 raffles instead. :rolleyes: Spelling mistakes can sometimes change an idea into senseless blabbering.

Fireball
27 May 06,, 18:20
well india has a lot of money but why dont you guys get 200 raffles.

India wants MRCA program to complement Su30MKI not to surpass it :biggrin:.

200 Rafael will cost like 12/13 billion $. thats around one year defence budget for India.

But there is a flip side. after Saudi Arabia ordered eurofighters india needs to go for a decent fighter, as Saudi equipment and funds are usually seconded to Pakistan in trouble period.

Regards
Sid

indianguy4u
27 May 06,, 19:12
200 Rafael will cost like 12/13 billion $. thats around one year defence budget for India1 rafale costs 120 million, which @ present isnt even come with meteor, AESA, full multirole capabilities. All of which should come by year 2012/13 with increase cost obviously ;). So 200 would be around 24 Billion USD w/o weapons, training, tech transfer etc.

Archer
27 May 06,, 20:10
i seriously don't think APG-79 is any more advanced than APG-80..

Larger aperture if I am not wrong, hence more tiles and greater range etc.

Archer
27 May 06,, 20:11
May be MiG-35 OVT. I am getting lost in their so many names.

Regarding range I was not told figure but he stated "range which is just as Su-27UBK before it was upgraded"

By the way they did not answer the question about fifth generation fighter project, asked by Indian reporter. Indian reporter asked if India will participate in development of the light fifth generation fighter. His reply was - It is not MIG who would decide. Design of fifth generation fighter means SHARING a lot of sensitive information which can be done in case if politically FIRM ALY RELATIONSHIPS are established.

Anything more about radar and about the MKI program?

Serbianpsyco
28 May 06,, 02:15
alright i didnt know they cost 120million i thought 60million tops no i see why they aint getting any good sales for the plane. well maybe they could get the F-18 Super hornet for 53million dollars a piece the brand new one. Thats what i heard they cost 53million with tranning and weapons ect beacuse they offered the deal with Bulgaria that doesnt have money like India. Beacuse the F-18 wouldnt be that bad for your aircraft carriers and for other things like that it has a bigger range then your Mig 29s.

Archer
28 May 06,, 05:53
How many times does this have to come up? The 126 are for the air force, not the Navy!

Serbianpsyco
30 May 06,, 12:48
just calm down im just saying the f-18 could be used on a aircraft carrier. If your having bad day just drink a couple happy pills and ull be fine.

indianguy4u
30 May 06,, 15:42
just calm down im just saying the f-18 could be used on a aircraft carrier. If your having bad day just drink a couple happy pills and ull be fine.
How can an AC procured by AF be used for Navy?Its basically a diff version & not the same US Navy version.

Why will an AF want to get a AC which would be optimsed for carrier landsings when it doesnt need that capability? AC for carrier operations are heavier due to extensive modification on its under carriage, to be able to handle the rigours of such enviournment. The AF version would be lighter & hence wont be capable of carrier landings.

Captain Drunk
30 May 06,, 16:18
I don't think we're gonna get those 126 fighters so soon. We don't need any new substandard 4th gen. fighters as of now, having over 500 Mig-21s, being Mach 2+ with AA-11 and AA-12s which are a big deterrence anyway. Then there are the 165 Floggers, 40 Mirages and a whole lot of Mig-29s and Su MKIs. This procurement is going to drag on until 2010 I'm sure and suddenly Russias gonna roll up its shop shutters and offer India something brand new - a 5th gen. Mig or Sukhoi :rolleyes:

I'm sure the Russians are keeping everything under tight wraps for secretive purposes, then expose their technology when they have an edge over everyone else.

I don't think we're as crazy as to go buy some early 1980s fighters, that too 126 if I may add, to serve us for the next 30-35 years. :cool:

tphuang
30 May 06,, 18:10
I don't think we're gonna get those 126 fighters so soon. We don't need any new substandard 4th gen. fighters as of now, having over 500 Mig-21s, being Mach 2+ with AA-11 and AA-12s which are a big deterrence anyway. Then there are the 165 Floggers, 40 Mirages and a whole lot of Mig-29s and Su MKIs. This procurement is going to drag on until 2010 I'm sure and suddenly Russias gonna roll up its shop shutters and offer India something brand new - a 5th gen. Mig or Sukhoi :rolleyes:

I'm sure the Russians are keeping everything under tight wraps for secretive purposes, then expose their technology when they have an edge over everyone else.

I don't think we're as crazy as to go buy some early 1980s fighters, that too 126 if I may add, to serve us for the next 30-35 years. :cool:
yes, but only 125 of those Mig-21 got the bison upgrade.

Archer
30 May 06,, 23:11
Another 2 squadrons are to get upgraded. Rest of the MiG-21'S- JUNKED!!!!
Thank God for that.

Apart from Mongol type conversion trainers.

Archer
31 May 06,, 16:07
just calm down im just saying the f-18 could be used on a aircraft carrier. If your having bad day just drink a couple happy pills and ull be fine.

Apologies if I came across too strong, but I hope you realize that this "myth" of Navy + AF procurement, is just that- a myth.

Puressence
31 May 06,, 17:59
I wonder if India would retool the Superbug for its own means. For example, there's no need for the hook since it will not be used on the carrier. Of course that would affect the CG but it is possible to unreinforce the plane since its sturdily built for carrier ops.

Already the Superbug's first half is simpler built by 40% compared to the C version. And the C version is in fact overbuilt. Two Hornets collided, one broke its nose clean off, the radar falling into the ocean, and the plane still made it back for a safe (base) landing! There have been numerous accounts of the C version coming back with heavy battle damage that belies its relatively small size.

By removing the hook and making construction even simpler, much weight, more than a few thousand pounds, can be saved to make the plane more agile and perhaps carry even bigger payload. I'm not sure whether this is workable or not.