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View Full Version : I am not stupid to make such remarks: Musharraf



Asim Aquil
17 Sep 05,, 16:45
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1234204,curpg-2,fright-0,right-0.cms


NEW YORK: Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf has said he was not so insensitive that he would accuse rape victims of exploiting their ordeal, as reported by a US newspaper.

Responding to a Washington Post interview quoting him as saying that some rape victims used their ordeal to get visas to Western countries, the president said on Friday: "I am not stupid to make such remarks."

Musharraf's response was published in the Dawn newspaper on Saturday. He confirmed that Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin did speak to him about his alleged remarks but said the Canadian leader did not ask him to apologise...

The Washington Post interview was published on Tuesday and the same day Martin told a news conference at the United Nations that Musharraf should apologise for making such remarks.

"I stated unequivocally that comments such as that are not acceptable and that violence against women is also a blight that besmirches all humanity," Martin said.

There has been an outcry from Pakistani rights groups and opposition politicians over the reported remark by Musharraf made in the context of gang-rape victim Mukhtaran Mai.

Musharraf is reported to have said in the interview: "This has become a moneymaking concern. A lot of people say if you want to go abroad and get a visa for Canada or citizenship and be a millionaire, get yourself raped,"

Ha!

The interesting thing to note is how quick and ready the anti-Pakistan mechanisms are, to go trigger-happy and blow things out of proportion and context.

Vaman
17 Sep 05,, 16:48
As I expected a retraction from the mooh-phat.

indianguy4u
17 Sep 05,, 17:12
All this shows who is what :biggrin:.

Asim Aquil
17 Sep 05,, 17:13
Its not a retraction, it points out how some people desperately wanted him to mean something that he never meant.

indianguy4u
17 Sep 05,, 17:23
Its not a retraction, it points out how some people desperately wanted him to mean something that he never meant.
Very good. First put foot in to mouth & then blame others for it :biggrin:.

Lahori paa jee
17 Sep 05,, 18:44
Its not a retraction, it points out how some people desperately wanted him to mean something that he never meant.


Asim my brother this is not the first time he has been miss quoted as he puts it. First he makes a bongi and then says the opposite.

Previously he said something about Iran to a german newspaper and then said he was miss quoted. :eek:

But then again we cannot blame the poor guy as he is mostly under the influence of Alcohol. :biggrin:

indianguy4u
17 Sep 05,, 18:47
Asim my brother this is not the first time he has been miss quoted as he puts it. First he makes a bongi and then says the opposite.

Previously he said something about Iran to a german newspaper and then said he was miss quoted. :eek:

But then again we cannot blame the poor guy as he is mostly under the influence of Alcohol. :biggrin:
Is that allowed in Islam?

gilgamesh
17 Sep 05,, 19:59
Truth accidently slipped from his tongue, reflecting his true, couped up inner feelings on how women should be treated in Pakistan. Now he trying to wriggle his way out.

Asim Aquil
17 Sep 05,, 20:33
Thats an assinine belief. Live in your own little world if you want to. After all youknow what Musharraf believes not Musharraf.

gilgamesh
17 Sep 05,, 23:35
Thats an assinine belief. Live in your own little world if you want to. After all youknow what Musharraf believes not Musharraf.

Musahraff is one of the architects of Kargil. And he should be trusted by Indians to deliver peace?

Pak army has been islamised by Zia. There is nothing Perry Mushy can do. Au contrair, he is a product of Zia's regime.

raj
18 Sep 05,, 00:43
Is this not the same mushraff who made a stupid comment in press meat that " pakistanis speak better english than INDIANS"
-raj

Lahori paa jee
18 Sep 05,, 08:30
Is that allowed in Islam?

Actually alcohol use is not allowed in Islam. But i know so many who drink and drink alot. And Musharraf and his group of corps comdrs are known habitual drinkers. Musharrafs wife also gives him company.

But then Who cares

Remember these famous words by Musharraf. He said those during Kargil when he was filmed by BBC smoking and when asked by the reporter should u be doing that. He said those words.

It meant he does not care about anyone meaning his boss Nawaz Sharif.

indianguy4u
18 Sep 05,, 08:31
Actually alcohol use is not allowed in Islam. But i know so many who drink and drink alot. And Musharraf and his group of corps comdrs are known habitual drinkers. Musharrafs wife also gives him company.

But then Who cares

Remember these famous words by Musharraf. He said those during Kargil when he was filmed by BBC smoking and when asked by the reporter should u be doing that. He said those words.

It meant he does not care about anyone meaning his boss Nawaz Sharif.
Mindblowing :rolleyes:

Aryan
18 Sep 05,, 14:35
I was disgusted by his comments, Musharraf certainly isn't a good spokesman.

Gabru47
18 Sep 05,, 15:38
Aryan heres more of Musharaff's eloquence. What I would have given to be a fly on the wall.......

Musharraf's address to women marked by shouting matches

From Our Special Correspondent
NEW YORK: -- Scenes of indiscipline marked by mutual shouting by indivduals holding conflicting points of view were witnessed Saturday at a meeting organized thighlight Presiident Pervez Musharraf's contribution to women's cause.
The atmosphere at the meeting attended by hundreds of women was vitiated by the aggressive questioning style of a woman participant which seem to anger the president who accused her of working against the national interests.
“You are against me and Pakistan,” said the president thundered when the woman referred to his alleged comments in a Washington Post interview which quoted Gen. Musharraf as saying that women exploited rape to get visas.
Provoked by a single question, the president allowed an event held to promote his government’s pro-women policies to degenerate into a shouting match between himself and part of the invited audience.
“I am a fighter, I will fight you. I do not give up and if you can shout, I can shout louder,” Gen. Musharraf declared.
“I wish you had quoted Muslim scholars as opposed to British scholars,” said the president to the woman who had quoted some American scholars to make her point.
Responding to the woman’s charge that he had retracted his interview to the Washington Post in which he was quoted as saying that some women used rape to get visa, Gen. Musharraf said: “Lady, you are used to people who tell lies. I am not one of them.”
In an indirect reference to opposition politicians in Pakistan, the president said: “We have introduced new leaders you don’t tell lies unlike your leaders who did.”
“You have disappointed me. I am disappointed with people like you. You work with people who looted and plundered the nation. You are against national interest.”
He said that people like her had some personal agenda for highlighting cases that hurt Pakistan’s reputation. “I know that there are people with vested interests and financial interests who are against Pakistan.”
Musharraf said his government was doing all for women's emancipation and would continue to do so. "Pakistan is going up, and this upward swing could not be altered," he told a packed hall of Pakistani-American women.
The President said women had been accorded enhanced representation in Pakistan right from the level of union councils to the levels of the parliament.
He cited enactments on gender inequality, setting up of a commission for women's welfare, action plan for women's uplift, national fund for rural area women, efforts aimed at curbing violence against women, adoption of a bill against gender inequality, and extention of legal aid to violence victims.

http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/sep-2005/18/index16.php

I don't think Mush actually believes what he said earlier, but boy was it ever dumb.

Also why is Mush saying hes gunna fight a women? I know in Islam your allowed to discipline your wife by beating her, but are you allowed to discipline random women?

Hongkongfuey
18 Sep 05,, 16:34
Aryan heres more of Musharaff's eloquence. What I would have given to be a fly on the wall.......

Musharraf's address to women marked by shouting matches

From Our Special Correspondent
NEW YORK: -- Scenes of indiscipline marked by mutual shouting by indivduals holding conflicting points of view were witnessed Saturday at a meeting organized thighlight Presiident Pervez Musharraf's contribution to women's cause.
The atmosphere at the meeting attended by hundreds of women was vitiated by the aggressive questioning style of a woman participant which seem to anger the president who accused her of working against the national interests.
“You are against me and Pakistan,” said the president thundered when the woman referred to his alleged comments in a Washington Post interview which quoted Gen. Musharraf as saying that women exploited rape to get visas.
Provoked by a single question, the president allowed an event held to promote his government’s pro-women policies to degenerate into a shouting match between himself and part of the invited audience.
“I am a fighter, I will fight you. I do not give up and if you can shout, I can shout louder,” Gen. Musharraf declared.
“I wish you had quoted Muslim scholars as opposed to British scholars,” said the president to the woman who had quoted some American scholars to make her point.
Responding to the woman’s charge that he had retracted his interview to the Washington Post in which he was quoted as saying that some women used rape to get visa, Gen. Musharraf said: “Lady, you are used to people who tell lies. I am not one of them.”
In an indirect reference to opposition politicians in Pakistan, the president said: “We have introduced new leaders you don’t tell lies unlike your leaders who did.”
“You have disappointed me. I am disappointed with people like you. You work with people who looted and plundered the nation. You are against national interest.”
He said that people like her had some personal agenda for highlighting cases that hurt Pakistan’s reputation. “I know that there are people with vested interests and financial interests who are against Pakistan.”
Musharraf said his government was doing all for women's emancipation and would continue to do so. "Pakistan is going up, and this upward swing could not be altered," he told a packed hall of Pakistani-American women.
The President said women had been accorded enhanced representation in Pakistan right from the level of union councils to the levels of the parliament.
He cited enactments on gender inequality, setting up of a commission for women's welfare, action plan for women's uplift, national fund for rural area women, efforts aimed at curbing violence against women, adoption of a bill against gender inequality, and extention of legal aid to violence victims.

http://www.nation.com.pk/daily/sep-2005/18/index16.php

I don't think Mush actually believes what he said earlier, but boy was it ever dumb.

Also why is Mush saying hes gunna fight a women? I know in Islam your allowed to discipline your wife by beating her, but are you allowed to discipline random women?

Surely you jest.

I know it says beating a woman, any woman is permitted in Hinduism, as explained by the divine laws of Manu who had learnt the laws from Lord Brahma, the Creator, and so the authorship is said to be divine.



"A wife, a son, a slave, a pupil and a younger brother who have commited faults may be beaten with the rope or a split bamboo." (Manu VIII:299)

Hongkongfuey
18 Sep 05,, 16:45
I was disgusted by his comments, Musharraf certainly isn't a good spokesman.

It was a misquote


Musharraf told CNN the remark was made in his presence, but he did not say it.

"This is absolutely out of context. These are not my words," he said. "I never said it. I was in the presence of people who said this. This is where it started."

"I am not that stupid to say that kind of thing," he said. "I know that rape is happening in Pakistan. I know there is violence against women."
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/09/18/pakistan.musharraf/

Gabru47
18 Sep 05,, 16:55
Surely you jest.

I know it says beating a woman, any woman is permitted in Hinduism, as explained by the divine laws of Manu who had learnt the laws from Lord Brahma, the Creator, and so the authorship is said to be divine.


I don't what this has to do with what I said. Could you tell me how they are related hongkongfuey? Please.

Hongkongfuey
18 Sep 05,, 17:01
I don't what this has to do with what I said. Could you tell me how they are related hongkongfuey? Please.

Of course old chap.

you said



I know in Islam your allowed to discipline your wife by beating her, but are you allowed to discipline random women?


Then I said



I know it says beating a woman, any woman is permitted in Hinduism, as explained by the divine laws of Manu who had learnt the laws from Lord Brahma, the Creator, and so the authorship is said to be divine.



"A wife, a son, a slave, a pupil and a younger brother who have commited faults may be beaten with the rope or a split bamboo." (Manu VIII:299)



:)

Gabru47
18 Sep 05,, 17:13
Yes but what does that have to do with what I said? How are they related? Why did you post what you did Hongkongfuey? What was the reason, the motive behind your post?

konkerer
18 Sep 05,, 17:21
It was a misquote


It was not a misquote, he is lying now, which is nothing new, this is not the first time he is doing it.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4256218.stm

'Verbatim'

But Glenn Kessler, co-author of the Washington Post article, told the BBC News website: "The president's comments were tape recorded and they were quoted verbatim and in context."

indianguy4u
18 Sep 05,, 17:29
It was not a misquote, he is lying now, which is nothing new, this is not the first time he is doing it.
'Footh in mouth' :biggrin:

Samudra
18 Sep 05,, 17:33
A wife, a son, a slave, a pupil and a younger brother who have commited faults may be beaten with the rope or a split bamboo." (Manu VIII:299)

HongKong,



When did Manu become a Hindu holy book ?
In a 1966 ruling, the Supreme Court of India defined the Hindu faith as follows for legal purposes:

Acceptance of the Vedas with reverence as the highest authority in religious and philosophic matters and acceptance with reverence of Vedas by Hindu thinkers and philosophers as the sole foundation of Hindu philosophy.

Spirit of tolerance and willingness to understand and appreciate the opponent's point of view based on the realisation that truth is many-sided.

Acceptance of great world rhythm — vast periods of creation, maintenance and dissolution follow each other in endless succession — by all six systems of Hindu philosophy.

Acceptance by all systems of Hindu philosophy of the belief in rebirth and pre-existence.

Recognition of the fact that the means or ways to salvation are many.

Realisation of the truth that numbers of Gods to be worshipped may be large, yet there are Hindus who do not believe in the worshipping of idols.


I'm Hindu.
I have a right not to follow the ManuSmriti.
Infact I can call it stupid and get on with my life.

Are you Muslims ready to do the same with Quran ?
You may not reply to this post if you dont feel comfortable about it.

Gabru47
18 Sep 05,, 17:36
Am I missing something? What was the point of what he posted? Its like me starting a thread about the price of gas and someone coming in and saying they like eating pickles. I don't get what the point of his post was.

Hongkongfuey
18 Sep 05,, 17:45
Yes but what does that have to do with what I said? How are they related? Why did you post what you did Hongkongfuey? What was the reason, the motive behind your post?

The same as yours I suspect :cool:

Samudra
18 Sep 05,, 17:48
The same as yours I suspect

Oh! Pardon me for being a little less smarter than you.
Please educate us.What was the motive behind Gabru's post ?

Hongkongfuey
18 Sep 05,, 17:53
It was not a misquote, he is lying now, which is nothing new, this is not the first time he is doing it.

So Mush says one thing the other guy says another. Take your pick who you believe. I'm with Mush.



The president's critics say he pays only lip service to cracking down on the abuse of women, hundreds of whom are raped and murdered every year in so-called honour cases in Pakistan.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4256218.stm


That isnt quite correct from your article.

Mush has passed a law banning honour killings, and in fact a law that goes so far as to pass the death sentence on any man in Pakistan who commits such a crime. What more can he do? Pass a law for quatering them as well? :rolleyes:



Pakistan's National Assembly has passed a law introducing the death penalty as the maximum punishment in extreme cases of so-called honour killings.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3956293.stm

gilgamesh
18 Sep 05,, 17:54
////"A wife, a son, a slave, a pupil and a younger brother who have commited faults may be beaten with the rope or a split bamboo." (Manu VIII:299) /////

HongKong, there is no discrimination here. Everybody gets flogged. Men included. And this was in ancient times. We now live in 21st century. Which part of that don't you understand? But then Taliban/Pakistan likes to live in past. Heck, they even name their mountains Hindu-Kush. Do you know what that means?

Samudra
18 Sep 05,, 17:57
So Mush says one thing the other guy says another. Take your pick who you believe. I'm with Mush.

But what Mush said has been recorded.And he denies saying the same. :D

indianguy4u
18 Sep 05,, 17:58
Hindu-KushMay i sir.

gilgamesh
18 Sep 05,, 17:59
May i sir.

By all means!

indianguy4u
18 Sep 05,, 18:04
By all means!
check PM.

Gabru47
18 Sep 05,, 18:10
My muslim friends tell me hindu-kush means happy hindus. Makes sense too.


The same as yours I suspect

Whats the matter with you, sing me something new. Just give it to me straight. What was the reason for your post and mine? Come on I can take it. I can almost grow a beard. I'm a man. Honeslty, I've gone through puberty. I'm a man.

gilgamesh
18 Sep 05,, 18:16
My muslim friends tell me hindu-kush means happy hindus. Makes sense too.

.


:biggrin:

Hongkongfuey
18 Sep 05,, 18:21
////"A wife, a son, a slave, a pupil and a younger brother who have commited faults may be beaten with the rope or a split bamboo." (Manu VIII:299) /////

HongKong, there is no discrimination here. Everybody gets flogged. Men included. And this was in ancient times. We now live in 21st century. Which part of that don't you understand? But then Taliban/Pakistan likes to live in past. Heck, they even name their mountains Hindu-Kush. Do you know what that means?

Hmm, you raise a good point. The beating of women in Hinduism is not only confined to wives, but also to children (sons, slaves, pupils, younger brothers). The adult male of the household is permitted to carry out the beatings, the wife does not appear to be.

However, if the Manu is not good enough for you, I could quote from the Rig Veda or Athara Veda on the subject of how to treat your Hindu wife. Would that be better?

Hmm, your second point is another good point. However, I would have to disagree with it. The situation in Pakistan is that of a forward looking, progressive state, the Taliban were opportunists who picked up the remnants of a state torn apart by a war. Do tell more about the Hindu Kush though, sounds interesting.

Hongkongfuey
18 Sep 05,, 18:23
Whats the matter with you, sing me something new. Just give it to me straight. What was the reason for your post and mine? Come on I can take it. I can almost grow a beard. I'm a man. Honeslty, I've gone through puberty. I'm a man.

:biggrin: If you repeat that enough times, you might convince yourself even :tongue:

Gabru47
18 Sep 05,, 18:31
So should I assume your not going to tell me why you posted what you did, comrade? Why is it so hard to answer?

Hongkongfuey
18 Sep 05,, 18:35
Ah yes, the "Hindu Kush", another example of the victim mentality by the honest Indians.



The origin of the term "Hindu Kush" (and whether it translates as "Indian Killer") is a point of contention. The earliest known use of this name was by the famous Arab traveller, Ibn Battūta c. 1334, who wrote: "Another reason for our halt was fear of the snow, for on the road there is a mountain called Hindūkūsh, which means "Slayer of Indians," because the slave boys and girls who are brought from India die there in large numbers as a result of the extreme cold and the quantity of snow." The Arabs (Arabic: عرب Ê»arab) are an originally Arabian ethnicity widespread in the Middle East and North Africa. ... Ibn Battuta (1304-1377). ...

However, this interpretation is usually considered to be only a "folk etymology." Numerous possibilities for its origin have been put forward; several of which are listed here:


that the name is a corruption of "Caucasus Indicus".
In modern Persian, the word "Kush" is derived from the verb Kushtan - to defeat, kill, or subdue. This could be interpreted as a memorial to the Indian captives who perished in the mountains while being transported to Central Asian slave markets.
that the name refers to the last great 'killer' mountains to cross when moving between the Afghan plateau and the Indian subcontinent, named after the toll it took on anyone crossing them;
that the name is a corruption of Hindu Koh, from the (modern) Persian word Kuh, meaning mountain. Rennell, writing in 1793, refers to the range as the "Hindoo-Kho or Hindoo-Kush"
that the name means Mountains of India or Mountains of the Indus in some of the Iranian languages that are still spoken in the region; that furthermore, many peaks, mountains, and related places in the region have "Kosh" or "Kush" in their names.
that the name is a posited Avestan appellation meaning "water mountains."


It should be noted that the word Hindu originally referred to any inhabitant of the Indian subcontinent, or Hind, not followers of the religion as it does now.
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Hindu-Kush

indianguy4u
18 Sep 05,, 18:41
Hmm, you raise a good point. The beating of women in Hinduism is not only confined to wives, but also to children (sons, slaves, pupils, younger brothers). The adult male of the household is permitted to carry out the beatings, the wife does not appear to be.

However, if the Manu is not good enough for you, I could quote from the Rig Veda or Athara Veda on the subject of how to treat your Hindu wife. Would that be better?

Hmm, your second point is another good point. However, I would have to disagree with it. The situation in Pakistan is that of a forward looking, progressive state, the Taliban were opportunists who picked up the remnants of a state torn apart by a war. Do tell more about the Hindu Kush though, sounds interesting.

I'm Hindu.
I have a right not to follow the ManuSmriti.
Infact I can call it stupid and get on with my life.

Are you Muslims ready to do the same with Quran ?Are u selectively blind. Or it means u have no guts to answer the Q put forward by sam.

667medic
18 Sep 05,, 18:45
It was not a misquote, he is lying now, which is nothing new, this is not the first time he is doing it.
Mushy OWNED :biggrin: :biggrin:

gilgamesh
18 Sep 05,, 18:52
Hmm, you raise a good point. The beating of women in Hinduism is not only confined to wives, but also to children (sons, slaves, pupils, younger brothers). The adult male of the household is permitted to carry out the beatings, the wife does not appear to be.

However, if the Manu is not good enough for you, I could quote from the Rig Veda or Athara Veda on the subject of how to treat your Hindu wife. Would that be better?

Hmm, your second point is another good point. However, I would have to disagree with it. The situation in Pakistan is that of a forward looking, progressive state, the Taliban were opportunists who picked up the remnants of a state torn apart by a war. Do tell more about the Hindu Kush though, sounds interesting.


///////////However, if the Manu is not good enough for you, I could quote from the Rig Veda or Athara Veda on the subject of how to treat your Hindu wife. Would that be better?/////////////////

Let me repeat again, we now live in 21st century. Which part of that don't you understand? The fact that you are comparing a law that was practiced 5000 years ago with modern Islamic practices speaks volumes about your countrymen.

gilgamesh
18 Sep 05,, 18:56
So Mush says one thing the other guy says another. Take your pick who you believe. I'm with Mush.



That isnt quite correct from your article.

Mush has passed a law banning honour killings, and in fact a law that goes so far as to pass the death sentence on any man in Pakistan who commits such a crime. What more can he do? Pass a law for quatering them as well? :rolleyes:


//////////////Mush has passed a law banning honour killings, and in fact a law that goes so far as to pass the death sentence on any man in Pakistan who commits such a crime. What more can he do? Pass a law for quatering them as well?//////////

Well, didn't you mention in your previous post in another thread that there are no honor killings in Pakistan? I am confused by your position. Kindly clarify if there are honor killings in Pakistan, or not?

gilgamesh
18 Sep 05,, 18:57
//////////////Mush has passed a law banning honour killings, and in fact a law that goes so far as to pass the death sentence on any man in Pakistan who commits such a crime. What more can he do? Pass a law for quatering them as well?//////////

Well, didn't you mention in your previous post in another thread that there are no honor killings in Pakistan? I am confused by your position. Kindly clarify if there are honor killings in Pakistan, or not?


HongKongChopSuey owned! :biggrin:

akash
18 Sep 05,, 19:02
Musharaff is an ignorant ***hole. :mad:

gilgamesh
18 Sep 05,, 19:05
Ah yes, the "Hindu Kush", another example of the victim mentality by the honest Indians.


Okey, let me be politically correct. Both hindus and buddhists were massacred.

Srirangan
18 Sep 05,, 21:15
Musharraf and the Business of Getting Raped

http://www.satribune.com/archives/200509/inset_wajid2.jpg

LONDON, September 19: Pakistan's commando president General Pervez Musharraf has ceased to enjoy the concession often extended to him that most of his off-the-cuff utterances do not mean what he says since he is a military man and all men in uniform are not gifted with virtues of wisdom. Since they belong to the trigger-happy clan of sons-of-a-gun, they believe that their might is right.


On top of many issues of national importance that form the much ambitious agenda taken upon by him to seek, is to paint "softer" image of Pakistan so that the world has a better and more positive view of a country run by a military dictator. One cannot blame him for it since slang is the normal lexicon with the soldiers, perhaps he cannot grasp the difference between softer image and soft porn and has got mixed up with it as shown by his defence of the rape of Mukhtaran Mai.

In short, in his interview to Washington Post, he justified as to how and why Pakistan under his so-called rule of "enlightened moderation" has become "Rapistan" where a woman is raped every two-and-half hour -- described by him as the on-going lucrative business among Pakistani women to seek "Canadian passport" and to make money. Thank Allah for His generous mercies, that our Don Quixote spared some respect for our female folk by not putting it bluntly that they enjoy "it" too.

To add insult and injury to the national honor, his propagandists claim that traumatic victims such as Mukhtaran Mai, Dr Shazia Khalid and Sonia Naz, who have bravely dared to expose the rapacious crime against female dignity, are nothing but pawns in the hands of NGOs with foreign links who allegedly receive enormous funds from abroad and quite a few of them are accused to be working for the "enemies" of Pakistan to give the country a bad name.

Obviously, in this allegation, either direct or indirect, inference was towards the so-called "Hunood-and-Yahud" (Hindu-Jewish) conspiracy. Now the government sponsored "Hunood-and-Yahud" inference orchestration will go out of fashion since the General is out there, hands folded on bended knees, tooth-paste ad smile running berserk on his face, seeking good relations with India and Israel at all costs and mostly for his personal gains.

He must have understood the message latent in President Bush's special praise for India in his UN address while there was no mention of the country that has become the front line state for American war of terror under its Knight Templar. He had sanguine reasons to go out of the way to grab the "historic" handshake opportunity with Israeli Prime Minister Aerial Sharon since he has the key to many vitally important doors in Washington.

The General also explained to Washington Post it was vital for both national and international interests not to denude himself of his Khaki. It facilitated him in successfully conducting the affairs of the state and that "he had not ruled out keeping it on past 2007".

In a tongue-in-cheek acknowledgement that "a president cannot be a president in uniform, and should not be", he said his keeping it on was imperative for meeting challenges of both domestic and international environment confronting Pakistan. Ominous conditions such as that within and outside Pakistan dictate that: "I keep it on until 2007 ... the regional and international environment demands that I keep it on. So why should I be bothered to remove it now?"

Moreover, it was of least concern for him that the majority of the people in Pakistan wanted to see him without his uniform, what mattered most with him was what Bush Sahib wanted of him. The man whose uniform prior to 9/11 had made him a pariah military dictator, boasted openly that never in any of his meetings, private or official, President Bush on any occasion asked to see him without his Khaki.

I am sure the man in White House allegedly and reputedly fighting a life-long battle with ignorance, has enough of Texan wisdom not to demand of his man Friday to be without clothes when it is known all over that Khaki to him is like hair were to Samson. His critics at home have corrected the impression that he had an insatiable lust for the office of the Presidency. They are now convinced that given a choice between the Presidency and Chief Of Army Staff his preference would be for the latter. He will like to have the cake and eat it too, best of the two worlds and make most of it while the sun of absolute power shines on him.

Coming back to Musharraf's "Rapistan", I agree with the vast public reaction in Pakistan to his Washington Post interview that whatever the General said about getting raped is a most brazen and sickening manifestation of a degenerated male mind. Musharraf told WP correspondent: 'You must understand the environment in Pakistan. This (rape) has become a money making concern. A lot of people say if you want to go abroad and get a visa for Canada and citizenship and be a millionaire, get yourself raped.'

Since the WP interview many innocent, naive Pakistanis and columnists have asked the question why General Musharraf thought it fit to make such a horrendous statement. They must realize that it is typical of the Praetorian mind set. Musharraf's explanation reminds me of late General "Tiger" Niazi who broke all previous records in genocide and massive rapes in erstwhile East Pakistan. He indulged, patronized, encouraged and defended rape of Muslim women (since majority of people in East Pakistan were more religious Muslims than their West Pakistani counterparts) with the view to changing the ethnic complexion of the population.

It is part of the method in the madness that military dictators employ to terrorize and subdue the civil population. Remember General Zia's time when tik-tikis, a wooden structure raised from ground to expose the posterior of a man to be administered lashes in public. To make its impact more gruesomely effective, whipping was done in a public place-mostly in sports stadiums. Besides public lashing to thousands of political dissidents, General Zia also indulged in execution by hanging to mute democratic voices.

Our present General, more of a macho man popularly described by his critics as YK2 (Yahya Khan 2), has sent his spine-chilling message to every home in Pakistan that he has given carte blanche for the rape of women in Pakistan.

Although under tremendous international pressure, the General has tried to go back on his words and blamed the Washington Post, his supporters cannot describe such horrific and sadist utterances as slip of his tongue. Instead of sympathizing with the rape victims and leaving no stone unturned to provide them justice, he has been going out of the way to prove that they themselves were the villains of the sordid piece.

Much before investigations are started in rape cases, the rapists are given a clean bill of health. Not only in Mukhtaran Mai's case who was stopped traveling abroad by Musharraf himself since he feared that she would bad mouth Pakistan in foreign lands, he showed indecent haste to rush to issue a public statement in Dr Shazia Khalid's rape case where an army Captain Hammad was allegedly the principal accused. The General said he was sure the accused was innocent. He had subverted and jackbooted justice by declaring Hammad above board even before investigations could start.

Gang-rapes, parading of women in the nude in public and increasing number of karo-kari cases spread like epidemics during military rule when the dictators talk of good governance but practically do the opposite.

The reason being very simple. Military rule provide all sort of feudal, lustful and excessive privileges to its personnel and to its civilian collaborators, including police, since it is the two that have to play the tango while the country and its people suffer.

Moreover, since dictators are not accountable to any one, it is the free for all sponsored by them that becomes the order of the day. Sonia Naz's case highlights over indulgence of police personnel in heinous crimes including rape. It is a sordid story of rape and extortion by a police officer that is protected by the high ups in Musharraf regime and it shows what happens to a society where poachers become gamekeepers.

Indeed, Pakistan had never sunk so low morally as now. The deepening apathy, social degeneration and decadence, breakdown of law and order machinery, all are sure signs of a state tethering on the verge of collapse. And with rulers like Musharraf around any longer, it could, may Allah forbid, mean swan song for Pakistan.

The writer is a former High Commissioner of Pakistan to UK

konkerer
18 Sep 05,, 23:17
So Mush says one thing the other guy says another. Take your pick who you believe. I'm with Mush.




I guess you don't understand the meaning of the expression "verbatim" and "recorded on tape".

Other thing you don't seem to understand that how damaging it is to his credibility to first say something which is "recorded on tape" and reproduced "verbatim" from the tape, and then go on and deny it.

Pretty soon the whole press would be treating him as a joker, not that it is not already doing it.

Asim Aquil
18 Sep 05,, 23:43
LOL, how come all the articles of SA Tribune are written by a "former High commisioner of Pakistan"

Hongkongfuey
19 Sep 05,, 01:39
LOL, how come all the articles of SA Tribune are written by a "former High commisioner of Pakistan"

:biggrin: you noticed that too. I think his name might be sebhai :cool:

Srirangan
19 Sep 05,, 03:31
LOL, how come all the articles of SA Tribune are written by a "former High commisioner of Pakistan"
I guess only Asim can write those. Care (dare?) to discuss the content of the article? No.

Samudra
19 Sep 05,, 05:57
Let me repeat again, we now live in 21st century. Which part of that don't you understand? The fact that you are comparing a law that was practiced 5000 years ago with modern Islamic practices speaks volumes about your countrymen.

Gilgamesh,

You are right there.
Hindus , to whom the Vedas are important have the right , granted by the vedas themselves , to ignore the Vedas if they are found to be irrelevant to the times of the reader/follower.

However the same cannot be said about the Quran which, as we were shown , advocates hitting a women under certain circumstances that are not so good for the men.

Ofcourse, HonkKongFuey being a troll shall ignore these posts and choose to troll on another subject.

bull
19 Sep 05,, 10:36
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/msid-1234204,curpg-2,fright-0,right-0.cms

Ha!

The interesting thing to note is how quick and ready the anti-Pakistan mechanisms are, to go trigger-happy and blow things out of proportion and context.

And u quote times of india,as the unbiased,not trigger happy,balanced newspaper.

If u remember time and again u have accused TOI to be jingoistic and uncredible news paper.

Srirangan
19 Sep 05,, 11:15
And u quote times of india,as the unbiased,not trigger happy,balanced newspaper.

If u remember time and again u have accused TOI to be jingoistic and uncredible news paper.
Well, its a case of split personality. Remeber time and again he changes from being Kashmiri to Pakistani and vice versa.

lemontree
19 Sep 05,, 12:07
Why is there surprise over Musharraf's statements?...
A general who refuses to accept the bodies of his soldiers, and denies their families a last 'farewell', has no moral courage. Moral courage is one of the corner stones of leadership. How is it that people are now surprised at Mushy's statements? He had lost all morality when he insulted the sacrifice of his dead soldiers, by denying them a return to their home.

bull
19 Sep 05,, 12:24
Why is there surprise over Musharraf's statements?...
A general who refuses to accept the bodies of his soldiers, and denies their families a last 'farewell', has no moral courage. Moral courage is one of the corner stones of leadership. How is it that people are now surprised at Mushy's statements? He had lost all morality when he insulted the sacrifice of his dead soldiers, by denying them a return to their home.

A soldiers speaks out!!!
well thats quite insulting and frustrating.
are the familes toldabt their fate or they calcualted as MIA.

lemontree
19 Sep 05,, 14:51
A soldiers speaks out!!!
well thats quite insulting and frustrating.
are the familes toldabt their fate or they calcualted as MIA.
There were reports of a mini mutiny/insubordination. Don't know the details. Most of the troops killed were from the Northern Areas and there is a lot of resentment over this issue.

Hari_Om
20 Sep 05,, 09:22
And I am not stupid enough to believe President Gen. Musharraf’s denial when the Washington Post took the elementary precaution of tape recording the interview :cool: :


Musharraf Denies Rape Comments : Recording Shows Post Article Correctly Quoted Pakistani President (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/18/AR2005091800554_pf.html)

The interview was conducted by three Washington Post reporters and was tape-recorded. A review of the recording yesterday confirmed that Musharraf -- who was surrounded by aides who took notes and also recorded the interview -- was accurately quoted.

Let President Gen. Musharraf order the Pakistani tape recording released or forever remain silent.

667medic
20 Sep 05,, 11:49
There were reports of a mini mutiny/insubordination. Don't know the details. Most of the troops killed were from the Northern Areas and there is a lot of resentment over this issue.
It is rumoured that the surviving officers from NLI were given plumb overseas Defence Attache positions to placate them. Furthermore the NLI was incorporated into the regular army which might have given them aditional benefits....

Gabru47
20 Sep 05,, 20:34
I still don't get it. I've been thinking it over for a couple of days and still can't figure out why Hongkongfuey posted what he did. Would you please tell me Honkongfuey? I was thinking over the "surely you jest" part and was thinking that it might be a clue, but I got nothing. So would you tell me?

Gautam
20 Sep 05,, 20:59
Man Musharaff is not stupid at all, :mad:


Don't u know this is a Jewish conspiracy sponsered by Mosad :biggrin:



Honkongfuwhatever is just furstrated so he has these sudden bursts to vent his anger & frustrations

Sameer
20 Sep 05,, 21:07
And I am not stupid enough to believe President Gen. Musharraf’s denial when the Washington Post took the elementary precaution of tape recording the interview :cool: :



Let President Gen. Musharraf order the Pakistani tape recording released or forever remain silent.


Then we just prooved that Musharaff is a liar, all his denials on all matters should be viewed in the same vein.

I used to think that he was smart, having led a successful coup and all but now he just looks plain dumb

Another one for the madrassah educated.

Karthik
21 Sep 05,, 03:24
Oh yes, he was apparently confronted by an angry group of Pakistani women in New York, with a tape of whatever he had said.

Not the type of conduct and mindset befitting a head of state. The general has foolishly undone the image that he'd built himself after 9/11. :rolleyes:

Samudra
21 Sep 05,, 06:07
Something doesnt add up here....

The Commandoooo Musharaf is not the one to make such stupid statements, notice how he was so very desperate to take home some concession on Kashmir from India and yet he did so bad with the General Assembly speech.

667medic
21 Sep 05,, 06:11
Something doesnt add up here....

The Commandoooo Musharaf is not the one to make such stupid statements, notice how he was so very desperate to take home some concession on Kashmir from India and yet he did so bad with the General Assembly speech.
It is human to screw up but this is probably the MOA SCREWups by Mushy. H e ended up looking like a MOFO, looser......

indianguy4u
21 Sep 05,, 06:14
Something doesnt add up here....

The Commandoooo Musharaf is not the one to make such stupid statements, notice how he was so very desperate to take home some concession on Kashmir from India and yet he did so bad with the General Assembly speech.
'Desparate situations demand desparate measures', he wants some browine points to claim to his ppl that he is capable of delivering kashmir. I dont see any point whatsoever in continuing this dialog process. This is an eyewash to keep dubya happy :mad:.

Samudra
21 Sep 05,, 06:14
People like Musharaf dont screw up consistently....

1.This stupid statement.
2.UN Speech
3.Bluffing away during Indo-Pak talks.

667medic
21 Sep 05,, 06:18
'Desparate situations demand desparate measures', he wants some browine points to claim to his ppl that he is capable of delivering kashmir. I dont see any point whatsoever in continuing this dialog process. This is an eyewash to keep dubya happy :mad:.
Obviously Dubya doesn't have any choice other than to court Mushy. The alternative for Dubya is to start bombing pakistani territory.

lemontree
21 Sep 05,, 06:24
It is rumoured that the surviving officers from NLI were given plumb overseas Defence Attache positions to placate them. Furthermore the NLI was incorporated into the regular army which might have given them aditional benefits....
The officers of NLI are on deputation from the regular PA. Most are Punjabi/Pathan, it does not make any difference to the NLI soldiers.

667medic
21 Sep 05,, 06:42
The officers of NLI are on deputation from the regular PA. Most are Punjabi/Pathan, it does not make any difference to the NLI soldiers.
I didn't know that :confused: . So how about Cpt.Karnal Sher, is he from Northern areas....

lemontree
21 Sep 05,, 12:35
I didn't know that :confused: . So how about Cpt.Karnal Sher, is he from Northern areas....
He was a native of Swabi which is in NWFP and he was a pathan and not a native of Northern Areas. He belonged to 27th Bn Sindh Regiment. He was killed in a counter attack on 8 Sikh positions in general area Tiger Hill. His body was found along with a SSG Major Iqbal and 30 other bodies of 12 NLI soldiers. Many PA officers and soldiers had volunteered for Op Badr, hence though they wore the NLI uniform, they may have belonged to different regiments.

Ray
21 Sep 05,, 19:02
I was surprised that Musahrraf was stupid enought to give such an assinine statemenet. He has till now indicated to be a person with a high survival instint.

Sameer
21 Sep 05,, 23:49
He was a native of Swabi which is in NWFP and he was a pathan and not a native of Northern Areas. He belonged to 27th Bn Sindh Regiment. He was killed in a counter attack on 8 Sikh positions in general area Tiger Hill. His body was found along with a SSG Major Iqbal and 30 other bodies of 12 NLI soldiers. Many PA officers and soldiers had volunteered for Op Badr, hence though they wore the NLI uniform, they may have belonged to different regiments.


Lemontree ji are you in the IA?
or are you retired now?

Vaman
22 Sep 05,, 00:04
OKie.. got a new one :

Q : How many Musharrafs do you need to screw in a lightbulb?
A : None. It cannot be done with Mushys. You know hes gonna screw it up and retract it later.
:biggrin:

Srirangan
22 Sep 05,, 05:36
OKie.. got a new one :

Q : How many Musharrafs do you need to screw in a lightbulb?
A : None. It cannot be done with Mushys. You know hes gonna screw it up and retract it later.
:biggrin:
You infidel!! If you are gonna shout, I can shout louder!! You are a supporter of Bhutto aren't you!! I'm not used to lying, unlike your leaders!! I have installed a good government!! You should have quoted an Islamic scholar!!

;)

lemontree
22 Sep 05,, 06:05
Lemontree ji are you in the IA?
or are you retired now?
Cut out the 'ji', it does not suit me. I am not serving any more. I did my 5 years and decided it was time to enjoy life. :) I work and live in Bombay.

Ray
22 Sep 05,, 08:07
Lemontree,

Come on.

Get used to the "ji", especially since you live and work in Mumbai.

Haven't heard of Amitabhji? ;) :)

Punajbis also add "ji" to everything as you would know better being in the Sikh LI.

I have even heard my father's CO addressing his wife as "darlingji" :biggrin: :tongue:

Jay
22 Sep 05,, 08:17
ok, here is the deal, since LT doesn like to be called ji, lets all call him Lemonji from now on, deal?? :biggrin: Just kidding LT :)

bull
22 Sep 05,, 08:52
ok, here is the deal, since LT doesn like to be called ji, lets all call him Lemonji from now on, deal?? :biggrin: Just kidding LT :)


Ha ha we shall call him lemonji and u ...what shall we call u J-ji :biggrin:

lemontree
22 Sep 05,, 09:02
Punajbis also add "ji" to everything as you would know better being in the Sikh LI.

Lol...in a way yes.

I have even heard my father's CO addressing his wife as "darlingji" :biggrin: :tongue:
:biggrin: :biggrin: I belive it, sir.

ok, here is the deal, since LT doesn like to be called ji, lets all call him Lemonji from now on, deal?? Just kidding LT
Lemonji - now this is a good name for an lime based alcoholic cocktail :biggrin: . So now I'm going to name one of my concoction 'lemonji'. Now its my drink's trademark, and no one dare use it. ;)

Srirangan
22 Sep 05,, 09:29
Oh yeah, "darlingji" is a very common phrase here in Delhi too.

Ray
22 Sep 05,, 20:33
I somehow think of you young guys as naughty little babalogs! ;) :)

Ray
22 Sep 05,, 20:35
For the non subcontinentals, babalogs are what the nannies called the British children in their care and then it was used for the children of the well heeled Indians who could afford ayahs (maids who look after children).

Neo
22 Sep 05,, 20:53
ok, here is the deal, since LT doesn like to be called ji, lets all call him Lemonji from now on, deal?? :biggrin: Just kidding LT :)

Good idea...Lemmon Ji sounds cute! :biggrin:

Samudra
22 Sep 05,, 21:03
I'm going to call Neo as "Unkil Neo"... he is sooo old. ;) :biggrin:

Ray
22 Sep 05,, 21:04
An Indian Army officer would hate to be called with a ji added to his name evenif it appears cute! ;)

I had to control one of my officer who nearly bashed up a civilian of repute since he was addressing him as Colonelji and the best part was that officer was a Punjabi!

Thereafter, whenever I wanted to needle him I used to add the ji to his name and then act smug that it was but an honorific that was ever so Punjabi and I was being totally polite to him! ;)

Neo
22 Sep 05,, 21:12
I'm going to call Neo as "Unkil Neo"... he is sooo old. ;) :biggrin:

Grrrrr.. :mad:

Neo
22 Sep 05,, 21:14
An Indian Army officer would hate to be called with a ji added to his name evenif it appears cute! ;)


But why? Whats wrong with being polite?

Ray
22 Sep 05,, 21:17
Nothing wrong in being polite.

It is just the procedure.

It is adequate to say "Sir" to seniors.

There are other languages in India. Imagine being called a Swami, babu, ji and the language being used is English!

Neo
22 Sep 05,, 21:19
Ah okay...that makes sense!

Ray
22 Sep 05,, 21:36
Neo,

Military men are taken by you guys as brainless wonders, but then in the final analysis we are the ones who have brains and the others are mere wonders! ;) :)

Musharraf proves the rule! ;)

Neo
22 Sep 05,, 21:38
Neo,

Military men are taken by you guys as brainless wonders, but then in the final analysis we are the ones who have brains and the others are mere wonders! ;) :)

Musharraf proves the rule! ;)

Grrrr...

Ray
22 Sep 05,, 21:40
:) ;)

Hari_Om
30 Sep 05,, 09:10
It is known that in Pakistan the absence of 4 Adult Male Muslims witnesses nullifies videotaped evidence that sexual relations took place (How To Make A Porn Movie In The Islamic Republic Of Pakistan) (http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=5652) and it is also known that the absence of 4 Adult Male Muslims witnesses nullifies DNA evidence in a rape case. (Link.) (http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showpost.php?p=92995&postcount=17)


Can someone please tell me that if likewise tape-recorded comments about a rape are null and void in a Pakistan unless they are backed by 4 Adult Male Muslims witnesses?

I ask as this perhaps is the cornerstone of President General Musharraf’s insistence that he did not make the comment that Pakistani women get raped to get Canadian Visa’s and become millionaires.

lemontree
30 Sep 05,, 09:27
It is known that in Pakistan the absence of 4 Adult Male Muslims witnesses nullifies videotaped evidence that sexual relations took place (How To Make A Porn Movie In The Islamic Republic Of Pakistan) (http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showthread.php?t=5652) and it is also known that the absence of 4 Adult Male Muslims witnesses nullifies DNA evidence in a rape case. (Link.) (http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/showpost.php?p=92995&postcount=17)


Can someone please tell me that if likewise tape-recorded comments about a rape are null and void in a Pakistan unless they are backed by 4 Adult Male Muslims witnesses?

I ask as this perhaps is the cornerstone of President General Musharraf’s insistence that he did not make the comment that Pakistani women get raped to get Canadian Visa’s and become millionaires.
IMO this "4 witness" business is the Shariat law requirement. I am sure the civil law followed earlier in Pakistan did not have this clause.

Srirangan
30 Sep 05,, 09:27
Actually, it's for adult male pious muslims.

Ray
01 Oct 05,, 11:30
And what is the qualitative requirements to be a pious Moslem?

Karthik
01 Oct 05,, 19:49
Shall we ask the grand ayotollahs or Abu Bashir of Indonesia ?

;)

Srirangan
01 Oct 05,, 19:51
And what is the qualitative requirements to be a pious Moslem?
I guess killing an infidel or ten will qualify as being pious.

;) kiddin'

Sameer
01 Oct 05,, 20:26
islam's problem= lack of Central authority and lack of opening of ishtahad.


How can one be a pious Muslim?
Definition?

Srirangan
01 Oct 05,, 20:54
islam's problem= lack of Central authority and lack of opening of ishtahad.


How can one be a pious Muslim?
Definition?
Islam's problem = Indulging religion is all walks of life, especially when mixed with politics, it becomes ugly.

Hari_Om
01 Oct 05,, 22:09
Lol...in a way yes.

:biggrin: :biggrin: I belive it, sir.

Lemonji - now this is a good name for an lime based alcoholic cocktail :biggrin: . So now I'm going to name one of my concoction 'lemonji'. Now its my drink's trademark, and no one dare use it. ;)

As long as it does not infringe on my putative patent.

A large measure of Vodka. A chilli slit lengthwise, and steeped in Vodka. A squeeze against the side of the glass of the Chilli with a spoon would help.

Soda and ice. Salt to taste.

Lips on glass, nose in glass ( Beaky noses help). If you do not sneeze, another squeeze of the chilli. Sneezes mandatory.

Ray
02 Oct 05,, 04:38
Actually I have added chillies to cocktails.

They make it great!

I believe some Policemen stuff it up the anus to get a confession.

And it works! :tongue:

lemontree
03 Oct 05,, 08:11
I prefer not to use chillies since some get acidity attacks with it.
I call one coctail "sun set" - 30ml of vodka + 30 ml of gin. Pour orange juice or tomato juice and shake it in a shaker. Put crushed ice in a tall glass and por the drink slowly, then add a tea spoon of dark rum on the top layer. You will see the rum stay on top and gently mixes with the orange colour giving it a twilight effect. ;)

Neo
03 Oct 05,, 21:12
I prefer not to use chillies since some get acidity attacks with it.
I call one coctail "sun set" - 30ml of vodka + 30 ml of gin. Pour orange juice or tomato juice and shake it in a shaker. Put crushed ice in a tall glass and por the drink slowly, then add a tea spoon of dark rum on the top layer. You will see the rum stay on top and gently mixes with the orange colour giving it a twilight effect. ;)


Cheers...on the rocks :biggrin:

hubby
04 Oct 05,, 02:57
An Editorial from Washington Post

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/30/AR2005093001536.html

Gen. Musharraf 's Lies

Saturday, October 1, 2005; Page A16

PAKISTANI President Pervez Musharraf complains that his country is unfairly portrayed as a place where rape and other violence against women are rampant and frequently condoned. In fact, it deserves such a reputation. According to Pakistani human rights groups, thousands of attacks are reported every year, including gang rapes and "honor killings" of women who are accused of having affairs or who refuse an arranged marriage. Most of these attacks go unpunished. So retrograde are Pakistan's laws that there are more than 1,500 women in prison as a result of rapes -- they were prosecuted for adultery -- while arrests of men occur in only about 15 percent of reported cases.

Gen. Musharraf, too, deserves the reputation he is earning as a ruler who cares more about how he is perceived in the West than in implementing the policies he claims to espouse, or even in speaking the truth. The general, who seized power in a coup six years ago, has reneged on promises to retire from the army or restore democracy. He has not carried out the reform of Islamic religious schools that he promised in 2001. He has allowed the extremist Afghan Taliban movement to base itself in Pakistan's western provinces with virtual impunity. He has repeatedly insisted, almost certainly falsely, that Osama bin Laden is not in Pakistan. All the while he has gone on collecting hundreds of millions of dollars in aid each year from the Bush administration, which accepts his words and ignores most of his actions.

Gen. Musharraf claims to champion a "moderate Islam" that respects the rights of women. But when Mukhtar Mai, a victim of a gang rape whose attackers have not been punished, tried to visit the United States earlier this year, the president barred her from leaving the country. In an interview with The Post last month, he claimed that he had relented. But then he said this: "You must understand the environment in Pakistan. This has become a money-making concern. A lot of people say if you want to go abroad and get a visa for Canada or citizenship and be a millionaire, get yourself raped." This statement was, as Pakistani activists and the Canadian government soon pointed out, an outrageous lie. There is only one known case of a rape victim moving to Canada, a doctor who was assaulted by a military officer. A far more common outcome for rape victims is to be ostracized by their communities or jailed. :frown:

When Gen. Musharraf's statement provoked an uproar, he responded with another lie: He claimed that he had never made it. In fact, a recording of him speaking is available on The Post's Web site, washingtonpost.com. His words are quite clear. "These are not my words, and I would go to the extent of saying I am not so silly and stupid to make comments of this sort," the general said. Well, yes, he is. :biggrin: