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Gabru47
28 Aug 05,, 05:04
Pakistan under attack

Pakistan is besieged on all sides by those out to defame it. The fact that the alleged perpetrators of the 7/7 bombings were British-born individuals is conveniently forgotten and only their Pakistani origin is highlighted. The Egyptians withdrew their false accusations of Pakistani complicity in the Egyptian bombing, but not before the damage was done and our name was further muddied. The foreign media are like vicious attack dogs that have smelled blood. Not a day goes by when a story is not carried by a major international newspaper belittling Pakistan. My friend, Chris Schlong, a liberal thinker, said it best. According to him, as Western societies continue to lose their moral bearings, they feel inferior and vaguely threatened by the innate superiority of Islamic thought. They attack Pakistan because we represent the intellectual attainment of the West while still retaining the noblest of Islamic ideals. Chris, who is converting to Islam along with his entire family, is giving all profits from his highly successful garment company as zakat. TFTA Apparels, his company, is also planning on setting up two large garment manufacturing centers in Pakistan.We should take heart from the actions of Mr. Schlong and other enlightened Westerners like him. If the West had more Schlongs, Pakistan would be a much happier place.—Virginia, USA

http://www.pakobserver.net/200508/28/voiceofpeople.asp

Does the world need more Schlongs?

Hari_Om
28 Aug 05,, 07:58
Yes if TFTA Apparel’s clothes fit SDLA’s. :biggrin:

hubby
28 Aug 05,, 08:50
Pakobserver is a fundoo newspaper.Most of its articles are nothing but west and India bashing.Dawn and Jang are better.

Gautam
28 Aug 05,, 13:22
Pakistan under attack

Pakistan is besieged on all sides by those out to defame it. The fact that the alleged perpetrators of the 7/7 bombings were British-born individuals is conveniently forgotten and only their Pakistani origin is highlighted. The Egyptians withdrew their false accusations of Pakistani complicity in the Egyptian bombing, but not before the damage was done and our name was further muddied. The foreign media are like vicious attack dogs that have smelled blood. Not a day goes by when a story is not carried by a major international newspaper belittling Pakistan.

Does the world need more Schlongs?

So what does do these people want us to think. Were those British born individuals radicalised by the British/British Society.

I don't think so because I live in London and it is very clear that the Muslims around the worlds have polarised themeselves from other societies. They have failed to integrate themselves. Many muslims are unwilling to adjust accordingly in their host countries which helps Right wing groups like BNP to take advanatage.

Above all, no one is on a witch hunt after Pakistan. There are things that are a huge concern and hence Pakistan is being cited up around the world as a likely source of these activities.

Asim Aquil
28 Aug 05,, 13:30
Its an individuals comments not a newspaper article.

IMO the world is befriending Pakistan just because its the only nation mixing western thought with Islamic ideals.

Gautam
28 Aug 05,, 13:38
Its an individuals comments not a newspaper article.

IMO the world is befriending Pakistan just because its the only nation mixing western thought with Islamic ideals.


I am sorry but Turkey would be a much appropriate example in this situation. Pakistan still has a long way to go.

Asim Aquil
28 Aug 05,, 14:06
Turkey's more Mullahistic than Pak. They're confused. They tried showing secularism by being anti-Islam. However, they are the pioneers of this type of thought.

Gautam
28 Aug 05,, 14:15
:confused: So you say

Gabru47
28 Aug 05,, 19:05
Its an individuals comments not a newspaper article.

IMO the world is befriending Pakistan just because its the only nation mixing western thought with Islamic ideals.

Why do Pakistanis need western thought if they have Islam? My muslim friends tell me Islam is a complete way of life, so wouldn't you have to override some Islamic ideals when incorporating western thought into Pakistan?

Ray
28 Aug 05,, 20:22
Isaiah 37:30


This shall be the sign to you. You will eat this year that which grows of itself, and in the second year that which springs from the same; and in the third year sow and reap and plant vineyards, and eat their fruit. (WEB)

And this shall be the sign unto thee: ye shall eat this year that which groweth of itself, and in the second year that which springeth of the same; and in the third year sow ye, and reap, and plant vineyards, and eat the fruit thereof. (ASV)

And this will be the sign to you: you will get your food this year from what comes up of itself, and in the second year from the produce of the same; and in the third year you will put in your seed, and get in the grain, and make vine-gardens, and take of their fruit. (BBE)

And this shall be the sign unto thee: there shall be eaten this year such as groweth of itself; and in the second year that which springeth of the same; but in the third year sow ye, and reap, and plant vineyards and eat the fruit thereof. (DBY)

And this shall be a sign unto thee, Ye shall eat this year such as groweth of itself; and the second year that which springeth of the same: and in the third year sow ye, and reap, and plant vineyards, and eat the fruit thereof. (KJV)

And this shall be a sign to thee, Ye shall eat this year such as groweth of itself; and the second year that which springeth of the same: and in the third year sow ye, and reap, and plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. (WBS)

And this shall be the sign unto thee: ye shall eat this year that which groweth of itself, and in the second year that which springeth of the same; and in the third year sow ye, and reap, and plant vineyards, and eat the fruit thereof. (JPS)

-- And this to thee 'is' the sign, Food of the year 'is' self-sown grain, And in the second year the spontaneous growth, And in the third year, sow ye and reap, And plant vineyards, and eat their fruit. (YLT)

The Taleban rings in my ears and mind! :eek:

Proverbs 5:22


The evil deeds of the wicked ensnare him. The cords of his sin hold him firmly. (WEB)

His own iniquities shall take the wicked, And he shall be holden with the cords of his sin. (ASV)

The evil-doer will be taken in the net of his crimes, and prisoned in the cords of his sin. (BBE)

His own iniquities shall take the wicked, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sin. (DBY)

His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins. (KJV)

His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be held with the cords of his sins. (WBS)

His own iniquities shall ensnare the wicked, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sin. (JPS)

His own iniquities do capture the wicked, And with the ropes of his sin he is holden. (YLT)

Neo
28 Aug 05,, 21:24
Isaiah was a great jewish prophet with a lot wisdom.
But Ray, maybe its me, I don't get the point.
What are you trying to say by quoting from the Bible?

Ray
28 Aug 05,, 21:43
Neo,

Religion is the state of being grasped by an ultimate concern and that concern finds expression in the words of the religious scriptures.

Asim Aquil
28 Aug 05,, 21:56
Why do Pakistanis need western thought if they have Islam? My muslim friends tell me Islam is a complete way of life, so wouldn't you have to override some Islamic ideals when incorporating western thought into Pakistan?
It is, and many traditionally known ideals like secularism and democracy that are considered western are also a part of Islam. Not Mullah Islam, though, which is fake and incorrect, also ridden with their own agenda.

Neo
28 Aug 05,, 22:06
Neo,

Religion is the state of being grasped by an ultimate concern and that concern finds expression in the words of the religious scriptures.

Okay, got it!

Samudra
29 Aug 05,, 05:13
It is, and many traditionally known ideals like secularism and democracy that are considered western are also a part of Islam. Not Mullah Islam, though, which is fake and incorrect, also ridden with their own agenda.

Do we have a humour thread ? :D

Gabru47
29 Aug 05,, 16:01
It is, and many traditionally known ideals like secularism and democracy that are considered western are also a part of Islam. Not Mullah Islam, though, which is fake and incorrect, also ridden with their own agenda.

While reading your response I was reminded of an article I had read years ago. Its an interview with Jinnah. Heres the article if you want to read it.

Don't know how reliable the source is, but I remember it went something like this.
The article is here:

http://iref.homestead.com/Messiah.html

Specifiaclly this part.


"Oh, it's not just the largest Islamic nation. Pakistan is the fifth-largest nation in the world!"

The note of personal triumph was so unmistakable that I wondered how much thought he gave to the human cost: more Muslim lives had been sacrificed to create the new Muslim homeland than America, for example, had lost during the entire second World War. I hoped he had a constructive plan for the seventy million citizens of Pakistan. What kind of constitution did he intend to draw up?

"Of course it will be a democratic constitution; Islam is a democratic religion."

I ventured to suggest that the term "democracy" was often loosely used these days. Could he define what he had in mind?

"Democracy is not just a new thing we are learning," said Jinnah. "It is in our blood. We have always had our system of zakat -- our obligation to the poor."

This confusion of democracy with charity troubled me. I begged him to be more specific.

"Our Islamic ideas have been based on democracy and social justice since the thirteenth century."

This mention of the thirteenth century troubled me still more. Pakistan has other relics of the Middle Ages besides "social justice" -- the remnants of a feudal land system, for one. What would the new constitution do about that? .. "The land belongs to the God," says the Koran. This would need clarification in the constitution. Presumably Jinnah, the lawyer, would be just the person to correlate the "true Islamic principles" one heard so much about in Pakistan with the new nation's laws. But all he would tell me was that the constitution would be democratic because "the soil is perfectly fertile for democracy."

Could you, if you have the time to answer, be more specific about the Islamic concept or values concerning democracy and secularism? I'm really interested to learn about this.

Gabru47
30 Aug 05,, 00:25
Other people can answer the question if they have any knowledge on the matter. Or did I ask something that shouldn't have been asked? If I did something I shouldn't have done, then I am sorry that I did that doing which shouldn't have been done. :confused: Are we allowed to talk about religion on this board? I guess were not even talking about religion, only seldomly referring to Islam. Oh boy, what have I done?

lemontree
30 Aug 05,, 07:18
Pakistan under attack
...My friend, Chris Schlong, a liberal thinker, said it best. According to him, as Western societies continue to lose their moral bearings, they feel inferior and vaguely threatened by the innate superiority of Islamic thought. They attack Pakistan because we represent the intellectual attainment of the West while still retaining the noblest of Islamic ideals. ....
http://www.pakobserver.net/200508/28/voiceofpeople.asp

Does the world need more Schlongs?
I really needed this to.....

Gabru47
31 Aug 05,, 18:07
Does Asim Aquil still come to this message board?

Ray
31 Aug 05,, 19:09
Why?

He is not an expert on Islam, if that is your concern.

Or has he given the impression that he is a well versed Mullah?

Islamic concept or values to democracy and secularism is rhetorics.

The democracy claimed in Islam is not the same as waht is understood by the world. Secularism has never been in Islam.

Islam is for Islamic people and it ends there.

Gabru47
01 Sep 05,, 01:28
Why?

Just hoping that he will expound on what he said earlier. Am I asking something that I shouldn't be? Maybe I shouldn't ask too many questions.


He is not an expert on Islam, if that is your concern.

Oh, I didn't know that. His response just had the affect on me that he knew what he was talking about. All the confidence in his post.


Or has he given the impression that he is a well versed Mullah?

Well he says that mullah Islam is fake and incorrect so it would be funny, while claiming to be a mullah, knowing that his version of Islam is false while passing it off as truth.


Islamic concept or values to democracy and secularism is rhetorics.

When I read what Jinnah had to say about Islam and democracy, in the article given earlier, I reached the same conclusion as you. Specifically this part makes Jinnah seem espescially foolish. It seems he isn't very knowledgeable on the subject of democracy. No offense to anyone.


Of course it will be a democratic constitution; Islam is a democratic religion."

I ventured to suggest that the term "democracy" was often loosely used these days. Could he define what he had in mind?

"Democracy is not just a new thing we are learning," said Jinnah. "It is in our blood. We have always had our system of zakat -- our obligation to the poor."

This confusion of democracy with charity troubled me. I begged him to be more specific.

"Our Islamic ideas have been based on democracy and social justice since the thirteenth century."

This mention of the thirteenth century troubled me still more.

Was just hoping that Asim's response wouldn't be similar to Jinnah's. Unfortunately he hasn't given a response yet, maybe my questions have offended him. I'm sorry if they did Asim.


The democracy claimed in Islam is not the same as waht is understood by the world. Secularism has never been in Islam.

Darn, that must be awfully awful for non-muslim citizens residing in an Islamic country. That brings up another topic thats been bothering me. Is Pakistan really an Islamic country? What I'm asking is, if Pakistan doesn't follow certain Islamic tenets, why do they call them selves an Islamic country? For example, does the Pakistani government make non-muslims living in their country pay jizya? Isn't that an Islamic tenet of good governance? Why is Pakistan not charging non-muslims jizya? Or do they? Maybe Asim can inform us about this. Or maybe thats a topic for another thread.


Islam is for Islamic people and it ends there.

I thought that Muslims were supposed to collect Jizya from non-muslims under their rule. Maybe I'm wrong and its just some local cultural practice.

Samudra
01 Sep 05,, 04:41
Darn, that must be awfully awful for non-muslim citizens residing in an Islamic country

If you try googling for minorities in Muslim majority countries you will find that Islam is everything but tolerant towards the minorities.

Non-Muslims can never live in peace amidst a Muslim majority.
Yes , Islam is the religion of peace.

Gabru47
03 Sep 05,, 16:14
If you try googling for minorities in Muslim majority countries you will find that Islam is everything but tolerant towards the minorities.

Non-Muslims can never live in peace amidst a Muslim majority.
Yes , Islam is the religion of peace.

Wow thats so strange. My muslim friends told me that Islam is the religion of peace and I think I heard Fareed Zakaria say that on T.V today. Strange how these sayings get parroted.

Anyways Asim still hasn't answered my question. I hope I haven't offended him, if I did Asim I'm sorry.