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rickusn
11 Oct 03,, 16:27
Report: Israel adds nukes to submarines

Saturday 11 October 2003, 18:04 Makka Time, 15:04 GMT


Submarines are now part of Israel's nuclear arsenal

Israel has modified US-made cruise missiles to carry nuclear warheads on submarines, giving it the ability to launch atomic weapons from land, air or sea.

These are the shock revelations released in a report according to the Los Angeles Times which published details about Israel's new capability on Saturday.

The missile modification was described by two US officials and confirmed by an Israeli official, the Times said. All three spoke on condition of anonymity.

"The Americans said they were disclosing the information to caution Israel's enemies at a time of heightened tensions in the region and concern over Iran's alleged ambitions," the Times said.

Complicate efforts

"We tolerate nuclear weapons in Israel for the same reason we tolerate them in Britain and France," a senior US official was quoted as saying. "We don't regard Israel as a threat."

Israel's newly acquired submarine capability will complicate efforts to persuade Iran to abandon a suspected nuclear weapons programme, the Times said.

Arab countries have criticised the United States and United Nations for pressuring Iran to accept tougher inspections while ignoring Israel's stockpile.

"A big source of contention is Israel," said a senior UN official trying to convince Iran to undergo additional inspections. "This is a magnet for other countries to develop nuclear weapons."



The only question is where will it start first? The Middle East or the Far East? Or somewhere in-between?

ZFBoxcar
11 Oct 03,, 21:06
People have been saying 'nuclear war looms closer' for the past 50 years. First of all Israel is not going to use its nuclear weapons because its conventional arsenal is more than sufficient. China wont use them because they dont want Taiwan THAT badly. Iran PROBABLY wont use them...but I suppose they are the closest thing to a nuclear wild card. North Korea won't use them because there are too many forces holding them in check: China, the US, South Korea, Japan. If they tried anything they would be dead really fast.

Praxus
11 Oct 03,, 22:10
"A big source of contention is Israel," said a senior UN official trying to convince Iran to undergo additional inspections. "This is a magnet for other countries to develop nuclear weapons."

LOL, they make it seem like everyone is going to go out and rush to make Nuclear Weapons. I'm sorry but that's not how it works. Israel has nukes to deter, not to attack. Iran would have nukes to USE them through a proxy or directly. Iran is already building nukes, Israel building a sub isn't gonna make anyone start up a nuclear program.

The UN should be destroyed.

rickusn
12 Oct 03,, 00:24
LOL Your both probably right. Im not completely convinced. I dont think the Japanese or Israels enemies among others are either. The N. Koreans already think their dead so.....

TopHatter
13 Oct 03,, 16:40
IMHO, all this does is give Israel a relatively undetectable and therefore safe nuclear option, no different than the Cold War development of SSBs and SSBNs. In other words, you can take out my land- and air-based nuclear weapons but can you find my undersea-based nukes? No? Then you might want to think twice about attacking me.

Bill
13 Oct 03,, 18:55
The part that irks me is we're probably paying for the damn thing.

Israel is like a bastard step child that is long since out of control.

bigross86
13 Oct 03,, 19:10
Step child I can accpet, but bastard? Isn't that being a little harsh? Face it, if the radical Muslims ever get enough people in power, Israel will be the only place that the US can project power from.

Bill
14 Oct 03,, 04:31
So far it's been the only place we HAVN'T been able to project power from!

Whatever my feelings for Israel, i do like you just fine BR.

bigross86
14 Oct 03,, 09:23
Originally posted by M21Sniper
So far it's been the only place we HAVN'T been able to project power from!

Not for lack of oppurtunities. Israeli bases, flying rights, landing rights, and support have been offered as early as the 1980's


Originally posted by M21Sniper Whatever my feelings for Israel, i do like you just fine BR.

Thankx, dude.

TopHatter
14 Oct 03,, 14:21
But the political fallout from US basing in Israel would be enormous

bigross86
14 Oct 03,, 16:37
Not necessarily. It would depend on who was in the White House at the time.

TopHatter
14 Oct 03,, 18:35
Fallout is fallout. It does not matter who gave the order, other nations (Islamic, I'm sure) will pitch a fit.
The only difference the guy in the Oval Office will make is how it's dealt with.

bigross86
15 Oct 03,, 09:28
That's what I meant. If we got us a "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" guy (or for whoever has read Dale Brown someone like Bradley Elliott), than I wouldn't be surprised if Israel got a significantly larger amount of arms and support, fiscally and politically.

Bill
17 Oct 03,, 05:16
Bush is a damn the torpedos type.

TopHatter
17 Oct 03,, 21:36
And eh...exactly who first said Damn the torpedoes, and what was that person referring to? :dbanana

bigross86
18 Oct 03,, 22:57
The quote was from Rear Admiral David Farragut in regard to the battle at Mobile Bay during the American Civil War. Fighting for the Union side, he watched the lead ship in his flotilla explode after hitting a torpedo mine. Racing to the lead with his own flag ship the Hartford, Farragut ried, "Damn the torpedoes, full sail ahead!" Following his lead the vast majority of his fleet sailed safely through the dangerous torpedo mined area, and went on to win one of the crucial battles of the American Civil War, and by doing this cut off a vital supply route to the Confederate side.

Hawg166
23 Oct 03,, 01:08
Good attention to detail BR your right there were no torpedoes as we know them. Instead they were mines as we know them and were reffered to as torpedoes. I give you a B+ for that short essay.:clap:

Bill
23 Oct 03,, 01:40
And who said "You may fire when ready Grimly", and what was his flagship?

TopHatter
23 Oct 03,, 14:47
That would be Commodore George Dewey on USS Olympia during the "battle" of Manila Bay. Oh and it was Captain Gridley (small spelling error there :) )
And of course Sniper will know where Olympia is currently residing :)

bigross86
23 Oct 03,, 17:10
B+??? That bites!!! Someone wanna tell the story about the USS Olympia?

TopHatter
23 Oct 03,, 17:31
Class: Olympia Cruiser
Launched: November 5, 1892
At: Union Iron Works, San Francisco, California
Commissioned: February 5, 1895

Length: 344 feet
Beam: 53 feet
Draft: 21 feet, 6 inches
Displacement: 5,870 tons
Armament:: Four 8-inch guns; ten 5-inch guns; fourteen 6 pounder guns



The oldest steel-hulled American warship afloat, Olympia served as Commodore George Dewey's flagship during the Battle of Manila Bay on May 1, 1898. In that engagement, Spanish naval forces in the Philippines were handed a smashing defeat, securing the Philippines for the United States and embarking the nation on an expanded role as a major force in not only the Pacific, but also world affairs. The cruiser was born out of a program of ships for the "New Navy" of the 1880s and 1890s designed to correct the deficiencies of a weakened and neglected naval force. This program was directly responsible for the rise of the steel shipbuilding industry of the United States. Olympia is the last remaining ship built during that program and the sole surviving naval combatant of the Spanish-American War.

Olympia returned home in triumph from the Spanish-American War in 1899. The cruiser then showed the flag from the Caribbean to Aegean Sea and served as the training vessel for the U.S. Naval Academy until 1909. Reactivated for World War I, Olympia patrolled off New York and participated in the allied landings in Murmansk in 1918. Olympia's last major mission was the return of the Unknown Soldier from World War I for reburial in Arlington National Cemetery. Olympia was decommissioned in 1922, and saved in 1954 from scrapping. In 1996, Independence Seaport Museum assumed responsibility for maintaining the vessel. USS Olympia is a National Historic Landmark and the triple expansion engines are National Historic Engineering Landmarks.


http://www.maritime.org/hnsa-olympia.htm

Bill
23 Oct 03,, 20:10
She now resides at Penn's landing in Philadelphia moored right next to the tall ship "Mushalu" and the Gato class SS USS Guppy. Of course directly across the river from them is the mighty USS New Jersey.

Makes for quite a scene.

I've been aboard all of them many times.

There is a concrete casting of the Admiral's feet on the observation deck where he uttered his famous line.

TopHatter
23 Oct 03,, 20:14
Geez, I need to get to PA one of these days. Got a piece of floor I can stretch out on Snipe?

Bill
23 Oct 03,, 20:18
I'm going in on a duplex with mom pretty soon. Once we get that i'll have a bedroom for ya, lol.

Might even be able to coordinate some other visitors from here and whiskey tango. I know a lot of the guys personally.

We could certainly fit in a tour of an A-10 and willow grove NAS, and of course a VIP tour of the USS NJ.

TopHatter
23 Oct 03,, 20:49
Holy chit...that would be the trip of the century! I doubt I'll get the time off, naturally. I miss everything :brick

Bill
24 Oct 03,, 19:31
We've had a few get togethers already.

A lot of the folks from Whiskey Tango got together in St Louis about a year ago, and then again in Utah about 6 months ago.

Had a great time at both.

Been tinkering with the idea of a 3rd trip in my area where i'll play host, so if you can make it when it finally gets ironed out, you are EXPECTED to be there. ;)

LOL

TopHatter
24 Oct 03,, 20:01
Well, if I get this new job like I am hoping to, that'll mean it's impossible to get the time off that i want but the friggin money should be worth it.

Bill
24 Oct 03,, 21:36
Not to worry, it's all just an idea i'm entertaining for now anyway.

bigross86
25 Oct 03,, 20:14
If you can hold it off till summer I might be able to come...

TopHatter
28 Oct 03,, 16:10
Geez, can you imagine all us dirtbags wandering around Philly waving automatic weapons at Snipe's repo's? :LOL

bigross86
28 Oct 03,, 19:04
I'll at least have some semblance of training... I'll wave whenever my right foot goes down...

-{SpoonmaN}-
09 Sep 04,, 08:52
Dude, the best defense Isreal has is her neighbour's lack of will to invade. It'd just cost too much. Nuclear deterrence is stupid because any use of nuclear weapons by Isreal would force the USA to give up their support and that would eventually lead to Isreal's downfall.
Simply put, WMDs are not a tangible method of defense, unless your neighbours already have heaps of them, and you need to do the MAD thing.
And seriously, Iran isn't going to be using WMDs any time soon. It'd be national suicide and they know it. They want to stay in power first and foremost, conquest is at best a secondary priority.
Maybe Rogue States pose a short-term threat to their immediate neighbours, but it's crazy to think that they'd really try to take on the biggest power in the world after seeing the first gulf war take place.

xxxxx
04 Oct 04,, 10:13
LOL, they make it seem like everyone is going to go out and rush to make Nuclear Weapons. I'm sorry but that's not how it works. Israel has nukes to deter, not to attack. Iran would have nukes to USE them through a proxy or directly. Iran is already building nukes, Israel building a sub isn't gonna make anyone start up a nuclear program.

The UN should be destroyed.

"Iran would have nukes to USE them through a proxy or directly."

who told you that??? Iran wants to have nukes in order to get unattackable by the USA. Deterrence.