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View Full Version : INDIAN AIRFORCE vs TURKISH AIRFORCE



vishv29
09 Jul 05,, 10:04
aahhh this could be yammy....geographically not possible but lets just enjoy comparison.no flame war, no insults, no nukes....just comparison...war has broken out on the some imaginary horizon of this world.only imagin blue sky and two airforces...

vishv29
09 Jul 05,, 10:07
hey also no third power....

indianguy4u
09 Jul 05,, 10:24
This won't happen untill turkey helps pureland vs India. So why .............

vishv29
09 Jul 05,, 10:38
This won't happen untill turkey helps pureland vs India. So why .............
just a comparison man...lets............

indianguy4u
09 Jul 05,, 10:41
Then do post inventory of TAF.

vishv29
09 Jul 05,, 10:47
Then do post inventory of TAF.
i dont know much abt the turkish airforce but i ve heard that it is one of best airforces of asia.with good nos. of latest F-16's,awacs i m not sure...but it is a pretty capable airforce.can u compare it with indian airforce? :)

indianguy4u
09 Jul 05,, 10:59
The best AF in asia is israel AF not turkey. But the thing is that both claim as of today to be a european country, geographically they are in asia.

Jonny555Biotch
09 Jul 05,, 10:59
Check this out... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Air_Force

indianguy4u
09 Jul 05,, 11:11
Thanks jonny.

It looks like all there eggs are in one basket ie f-16s blocks 30,40,50. And few f-4 of different variants.

It will be a good fight between IAF's su-30 mki & mirage 2000 & mig 29 mig 27 vs their f-16s. But what don't look good for IAF is TAF has 215-220 f-16s. The AF which uses better tactics & will win.

vishv29
09 Jul 05,, 11:32
The best AF in asia is israel AF not turkey. But the thing is that both claim as of today to be a european country, geographically they are in asia.
yes,i said one of the best airforces.

Jonny555Biotch
09 Jul 05,, 12:18
I hate to say it but it looks like Turkey will win this, they have much better
equipment than the IAF.

uss
09 Jul 05,, 13:49
I hate to say it but it looks like Turkey will win this, they have much better
equipment than the IAF.

What better equipment might i ask?

Does the TAF have AWAC support? If not, I seriously doubt they can do much against the IAF. Remember the MKI can do the mini awacs bit, it is a more advanced a/c than the blk 50 +. the exercises with singapore proved this.
Altogether the TAF has about 350 combat a/c out of which only about 75 are blk 50 std. Undoubtedly, the F16s have a pretty good multirole ability, but air superiority will belong to IAF. The TAF F16s don't have any Amraam C versions, while the IAF has large amount of advanced R77 and R27s which would give them a huge BVR advantage. In close most of the IAF a/c have HMS, while only the blk 50 have this for the TAF.

the IAF on the other hand has close to:
Air Superiority:
SU 30 MKI - 20 (R77, R27, HMS, R73 etc)
SU 30 K - 24 (R77, R27, HMS, R73 etc)
MiG29 - 60 (R77, R27, HMS, R73 etc)
Mirage 2000 - 50 ++ (without the soon to be acquired 12 qatari m2000-5s) (HMS?, R73, Magics)
MiG 21 Bison - 125 (R73, HMS, R77, R27?)
MiG 21 bis - 80

Dedicated Strike a/c:
Jaguar - 75+
Mig 27 - 150 ++
MiG 23 - 50 odd

Total # 700 +

Ya, have fun trying to beat the IAF. Quality and Quantity wise, the IAF is clearly superior. It won't be too easy but the IAF, IMHO will emerge victorious without much trouble.

Samudra
09 Jul 05,, 15:38
No offense to you guys , but such threads are frankly , pointless.
Please avoid such threads in future.

bull
13 Jul 05,, 11:31
No offense to you guys , but such threads are frankly , pointless.
Please avoid such threads in future.

shall i remind you that you have the choice of not participating!!!

indianguy4u
16 Jul 05,, 17:29
uss,
TAF do have early warning aircrafts acc to the link given by jonny.

uss
17 Jul 05,, 06:07
uss,
TAF do have early warning aircrafts acc to the link given by jonny.


Where did you find that information IG4U? (I hope you don't mind me abbreviating your handle, it is kinda complicated to type). I searched the page quite a bit but couldn't find this. Are you referring to the 4 wedgetails they are going to recieve? I was referring to a present day scenario. In the future, the IAF is likely to have 4 phalcons + few home made AWACs birds. the phalcons by the way, are considered the best in the world by this very website (wikipedia)!

so today or tomorrow I don't foresee the TAF posing much of a problem to the IAF, presuming of course, that everything goes as planned for both nations.

Kind regards,
USS.

Lord General
17 Jul 05,, 06:20
Without research, without any "investigation" I can tell you, with confidence, India would wipe out not only the Turkish Air Force, but all their "land soldiers and defence equipment". How can Turkey be compared to India? I don't even see a 2 day war LMAO... less than 2 hours, India would occupy all of Turkey. Just like the war in Pakistan, when Pakistan had the radar that was locating air planes and targeting them, an Indian soldier flew right into the sensor machine, thus ending the pakistan military's capabilites of locating the air planes that INdia was using to destroy the pakistani soldiers.

indianguy4u
17 Jul 05,, 08:33
USS,
B-737-700 MESA THEIK(4 ordered, 2 optional). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Wedgetail
Sorry i forgot to its delivery date.
Even our phalcons are not yet delivered.

If we consider only A2A fight IAF have appro 275 AC(50su-30+ 50m2k+ 50mig29+ 125mig21 bis) vs the 250 odd F-16s. Tell me who will have upperhand.
(i left out jags, 23, 27 out b'coz they are A2G mission). {Do correct if i am wrong}

All i say is its a tough fight & no massacre either by IAF or TAF.

hammer
17 Jul 05,, 09:23
Without research, without any "investigation" I can tell you, with confidence, India would wipe out not only the Turkish Air Force, but all their "land soldiers and defence equipment".

HUh? thats pushing it too far. The Turkish defence forces are not some third rate forces that you make them out to be. You underestimate them at your own peril.

Lord General
17 Jul 05,, 09:25
HUh? thats pushing it too far. The Turkish defence forces are not some third rate forces that you make them out to be. You underestimate them at your own peril.


I didn't call them third rate, but compared to India's might, they will look like third rate. :cool:

hammer
17 Jul 05,, 09:29
All i say is its a tough fight & no massacre either by IAF or TAF.

I agree.

indianguy4u
17 Jul 05,, 10:16
All i can say is that even if we had 125 MRCA(additional) with us today, even then it will be close fight.

In the end the AF which will judiciously use its AC mix & tatics will prevail.

Can anyone shed more light on this.

ajaybhutani
17 Jul 05,, 18:38
All i can say is that even if we had 125 MRCA(additional) with us today, even then it will be close fight.

In the end the AF which will judiciously use its AC mix & tatics will prevail.

Can anyone shed more light on this.
Considering the fact that Turkish dont have anything near to R-77s range and performance, i think they will miserably loose in BVR.The mig21's,M2k&mig29 will utilize the mki's as awacs to get better performance. I dont say that IAF will win but if a proper use of data link and R-77's is done by iaf they will have an upperhand.That once again its all about tactics. The 125 new fghters will shift the balance in favour of India as we can safely assume them to be coparable in capabilities to f16 blk 50 and with R77 etc .

indianguy4u
17 Jul 05,, 18:43
But ajay TAF have 250 odd F-16s of Blocks 30, 40, 50. One cannt discount those Along with F 4s. Also what about jamming & EW. US Fighters do have better of these than russian made IAF planes like mig 21, 29.

uss
19 Jul 05,, 09:12
USS,
B-737-700 MESA THEIK(4 ordered, 2 optional). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Wedgetail
Sorry i forgot to its delivery date.
Even our phalcons are not yet delivered.

If we consider only A2A fight IAF have appro 275 AC(50su-30+ 50m2k+ 50mig29+ 125mig21 bis) vs the 250 odd F-16s. Tell me who will have upperhand.
(i left out jags, 23, 27 out b'coz they are A2G mission). {Do correct if i am wrong}

All i say is its a tough fight & no massacre either by IAF or TAF.

IG4U, you have your numbers a little onesided - the TAF has about 217 f16s and many of the TAF f16s will also be devoted to strike missions. together with the F4s, they have around 350 combat a/c TOTAL. I mean unless the TAF only plans to defend and intercept without any plan to attack/strike (which too would not help, because they would be totally outnumbered), they will have to perform all the roles of an air force.

Why would you disregard the IAF Mig27s, 23s and Jags,? you just basically took out one of thier arms. expect them to fight one handed eh? Even then , the TAF will be up against the wall. With its dedicated strike fleet, the IAF should easily be able to have the offensive. If the TAF is only dedicated to A2A as you seem to suggest, the IAF strike a/c will completely suppress enemy air defences.

also, the TAF teens carry the AMRAAM A/B with a range of around 20miles, which means the IAF would have a big BVR advantage esp. with the R77 RVVAE and R27Ts. WVR, only the block 50s have JHMS, the rest of the TAF does not have these, while almost all Indian a/c you mentioned (except mirage 2000- unconfirmed, may actually have some form of HMS) have this advantage. Also, the MKI can act as a mini awacs with proper command and control systems, directing as many as 8 a/c, making it a powerful force multiplier under the circumstances (so even without the Phalcon, awareness wise, the IAF should have some advantage).

And please don't think IAF a/c don't have dedicated jamming a/c ... a number of MiG23s and 21s are dedicated to this. Also, TAF F16s are not the latest versions like those of the IDF or UAE, whatever the TAF can throw in terms of tech, IAF can counter with more. And don't forget the Mig 25s of the IAF, they can be real useful in recon and i doubt can be intercepted by any of the TAF a/c. And yes, even though there is a general consensus (or is it bias? :rolleyes: ) esp. on the internet about the superiority of western equipmnt, please give the russian stuff some credit (its not all made for show you know) The MiG 29s for eg. have a pretty decent IRST, which I don't believe any western a/c had at the time, same with HMS. Even the current Mirage 2000-5 does not have an IRST! Furthermore, most of the russian weakness in equipmnt has been improved with indian tinkering...:) in the IAF.

Oh yes, another thing - the IAF pilots are amongst the most rigorously trained pilots in the world. In terms of hours, their numbers are up there.

I don't say it will be a massacre by IAF, but I don't think the TAF can come out on top as Jonny claimed, least of all based on the wrong notion of equipment superiority! Not easy for IAF, but not too difficult either. And ya, do we include the missile sqds of the AFs? The IAF would have a humungous edge here with the Prithvis not to mention SAM numbers! On second thoughts, may be it will be a massacre afterall :rolleyes:

Peace,
USS.

indianguy4u
19 Jul 05,, 09:34
TAF must be having better BVR missile. At 20 miles its only around 32 kms. If ths is the case the the i am inclined to say IAF would win.

uss
19 Jul 05,, 09:43
TAF must be having better BVR missile. At 20 miles its only around 32 kms. If ths is the case the the i am inclined to say IAF would win.


Hey, it is your own source wikipedia that gives the AMRAAM a/b's range, so take it fwiw.

USS.

indianguy4u
19 Jul 05,, 09:46
It was jonny who gave the link.


http://www.milnet.com/pentagon/mideast/turkey/trkmil3.htm



The Air Force
The Turkish air force is the youngest of the three branches of the armed services. Founded in 1911, it saw action in the Balkan Wars and World War I, as well as the Turkish War of Independence. The first Turkish pilots were trained in France. The air force has been assigned a high priority in modern strategic planning because control of the air would be indispensable for successful defense against a ground attack by well-equipped hostile forces. Moreover, reinforcement and resupply of Turkish ground forces by its NATO allies would be infeasible without control of the air. The air force role in the interdiction of an invasion force would be to provide close support of ground troops in tactical defensive actions and to airlift troops and supplies. Under wartime conditions, the Turkish air force would be committed to action as part of NATO's SIXATAF headquartered at Izmir.

In 1986 the air arm was staffed by about 57,000 officers and men. It was organized around two basic combat elements operating east and west of the thirty-fifth meridian of longitude. The First Tactical Air Force had its headquarters at Eskisehir Air Base in western Turkey. It defended the Turkish straits and provided air cover in the First Army's area of operations. The Second Tactical Air Force, commanded from its headquarters at Diyarbakir in eastern Turkey, was charged with defending the Third Army and part of the Second Army against the Soviet air force. Separate training and transportation commands made up the balance of major flight elements possessing aircraft; further support of the tactical combat forces was provided by units charged with supply, communications, intelligence, and administration. The headquarters of the Turkish air force were at Ankara, where the commander and his air staff were easily accessible to the chief of the general staff. In late 1987, the air force commander was General Cemil Cuha.

The air force was organized tactically into nineteen fighterbomber attack squadrons, two fighter-interceptor squadrons, two reconnaissance squadrons, four transport squadrons, and eight SAM squadrons. The missile squadrons were equipped with obsolete Nike Hercules missiles, but more modern Rapier missiles of British manufacture were being acquired with United States aid.

Most of the aircraft and air defense systems were obsolescent models discarded by other NATO countries (see table 18, Appendix). The inventory of combat aircraft was still dominated by aging F-5s, F-100s, and F-104s, many of which had been transferred by Canada and European NATO members. The more up-to- date F-4E, with which five squadrons were equipped for the ground-attack role, and the RF-4E version equipping one reconnaissance squadron offered improved capability. An important upgrade of the air force was scheduled to begin in late 1987 and continue through the mid-1990s, when the F-104G fighter-bombers would be replaced by 160 advanced F-16 aircraft produced in Turkey under a cooperative program with the General Dynamics and General Electric Corporations.

Air force training, which followed United States Air Force patterns, was conducted at Çigli Air Base near Izmir and at Konya where the Air Force Academy educated and prepared cadets for career officer positions. Those going on to become pilots pursued a basic flight training course of eighteen to twenty-four months at Çigli before being assigned to their units. The NCO school was also located at Izmir. Specialist instruction in the technical subjects required by modern air operations also was offered at this school or in some cases at civilian facilities.

indianguy4u
19 Jul 05,, 09:59
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=6iom84jen7bdq?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Turkish+Air+Force&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc04a

ajaybhutani
20 Jul 05,, 07:18
TAF must be having better BVR missile. At 20 miles its only around 32 kms. If ths is the case the the i am inclined to say IAF would win.
1. as u can see the BVR gors in IAF's advantage.
2. The numbers are in IAFs advantage.
3. The Jamming pods might be in TAFs advantage but then can we surely say that the TAFs jamming pods are better than the israeli pods indians use. For IAFs russian planes arent really pure russians but have a lot of israeli and french goodies too apart from the home grown ones. I wouldnt rule out indian jamming as inferior unless someone gives me a credible source comparing the jamming pods etc..

indianguy4u
20 Jul 05,, 09:14
1. as u can see the BVR gors in IAF's advantage.
2. The numbers are in IAFs advantage.
3. The Jamming pods might be in TAFs advantage but then can we surely say that the TAFs jamming pods are better than the israeli pods indians use. For IAFs russian planes arent really pure russians but have a lot of israeli and french goodies too apart from the home grown ones. I wouldnt rule out indian jamming as inferior unless someone gives me a credible source comparing the jamming pods etc..

Given the present info on TAF, i retrack my earlier post & say that IAF should win. If in future TAF upgrades its BVR missiles than one can say that it would be a tough fight.

Also i think this is battle of unequals. No worth in pursuing it.

ajaybhutani
20 Jul 05,, 12:07
Given the present info on TAF, i retrack my earlier post & say that IAF should win. If in future TAF upgrades its BVR missiles than one can say that it would be a tough fight.

Also i think this is battle of unequals. No worth in pursuing it.
if we assume that TAF will upgrade its BVR then we should also include the inclusion of LCA and procurement of 125 MRCA and phalcons by IAF. making it the same result as before.
Of course No worth in pursuing it.

indianguy4u
20 Jul 05,, 17:19
IG4U, you have your numbers a little onesided - the TAF has about 217 f16s and many of the TAF f16s will also be devoted to strike missions. together with the F4s, they have around 350 combat a/c TOTAL. I mean unless the TAF only plans to defend and intercept without any plan to attack/strike (which too would not help, because they would be totally outnumbered), they will have to perform all the roles of an air force.

Why would you disregard the IAF Mig27s, 23s and Jags,? you just basically took out one of thier arms. expect them to fight one handed eh? Even then , the TAF will be up against the wall. With its dedicated strike fleet, the IAF should easily be able to have the offensive. If the TAF is only dedicated to A2A as you seem to suggest, the IAF strike a/c will completely suppress enemy air defences.

also, the TAF teens carry the AMRAAM A/B with a range of around 20miles, which means the IAF would have a big BVR advantage esp. with the R77 RVVAE and R27Ts. WVR, only the block 50s have JHMS, the rest of the TAF does not have these, while almost all Indian a/c you mentioned (except mirage 2000- unconfirmed, may actually have some form of HMS) have this advantage. Also, the MKI can act as a mini awacs with proper command and control systems, directing as many as 8 a/c, making it a powerful force multiplier under the circumstances (so even without the Phalcon, awareness wise, the IAF should have some advantage).

And please don't think IAF a/c don't have dedicated jamming a/c ... a number of MiG23s and 21s are dedicated to this. Also, TAF F16s are not the latest versions like those of the IDF or UAE, whatever the TAF can throw in terms of tech, IAF can counter with more. And don't forget the Mig 25s of the IAF, they can be real useful in recon and i doubt can be intercepted by any of the TAF a/c. And yes, even though there is a general consensus (or is it bias? :rolleyes: ) esp. on the internet about the superiority of western equipmnt, please give the russian stuff some credit (its not all made for show you know) The MiG 29s for eg. have a pretty decent IRST, which I don't believe any western a/c had at the time, same with HMS. Even the current Mirage 2000-5 does not have an IRST! Furthermore, most of the russian weakness in equipmnt has been improved with indian tinkering...:) in the IAF.

Oh yes, another thing - the IAF pilots are amongst the most rigorously trained pilots in the world. In terms of hours, their numbers are up there.

I don't say it will be a massacre by IAF, but I don't think the TAF can come out on top as Jonny claimed, least of all based on the wrong notion of equipment superiority! Not easy for IAF, but not too difficult either. And ya, do we include the missile sqds of the AFs? The IAF would have a humungous edge here with the Prithvis not to mention SAM numbers! On second thoughts, may be it will be a massacre afterall :rolleyes:

Peace,
USS.
Ur point is taken mate :) .

Lord General
22 Jul 05,, 13:26
Also i think this is battle of unequals. No worth in pursuing it.


You realized that right now? LMAO

Cowboykiller
24 Jul 05,, 06:35
I vote for Turkey since it's part of NATO.

indianguy4u
24 Jul 05,, 15:33
I vote for Turkey since it's part of NATO.
First of all remove/edit ur sign or Indians here would be notifying it with the mods to remove it.

Sameer
24 Jul 05,, 16:42
First of all remove/edit ur sign or Indians here would be notifying it with the mods to remove it.

Relax he is probably a Pakistani kid living in the US confused about his own identity. :biggrin:



The battle would even get uglier after 2010.

With the R-77 edge and the upgraded MiG-29s and the MKI entering service with the IRBIS radar.... man oh man :)

Also the Bhramos does have a land attack version in development with an "official range" of 300kms, why we could be destroying Turkish AF bases like silly from far far away. Assuming the GLOSNOS becomes efective again by 2010,a realistic goal.

leib10
24 Jul 05,, 17:03
My God, another Blah vs. Blah thread. :mad:

highsea
24 Jul 05,, 17:48
... Assuming the GLOSNOS becomes efective again by 2010,a realistic goal.It's GLONASS, not GLOSNOS. And no, 2010 is not realistic at the rate things are going. The scheduled launches through 2008 are just enough to keep even with attrition, and two Russian launchers are currently grounded. There are currently 11 operational sats, only two or three are Glonass-M's and there are NO Glonass-K's yet. The standard Glonass sat has a best-case lifespan of only 2-3 years (designed lifespan of 18 months). Over half of the existing operational sats have already exceeded their design lifespan. The constellation needs 24 sats for full functionality.

Jonny555Biotch
24 Jul 05,, 21:55
And don't forget the Mig 25s of the IAF, they can be real useful in recon and i doubt can be intercepted by any of the TAF a/c.

The MIG-25s were put out of service quite a while ago.

Sameer
24 Jul 05,, 23:55
The Trisonics were retired just last year.

highsea
25 Jul 05,, 01:31
What is that, a garage band?

Ajay- the AMRAAM is a no escape missile. It's been fired 10 times in combat, resulting in 6 kills. The 4 "misses" are because 2 missiles we fired at the same target, and the second one self destructed after the target was dead. No AC has survived an AMRAAM encounter in combat (so far).

BTW, Johnny is right, the MiG-25's are out of service for some time now....

brownboi4eva
25 Jul 05,, 05:30
I have a question, anyone educated in this topic your input would be very valuable...you know when a country retires a certain aircraft or tank [like mig 25] do they just garbage it aka salvage what they can and scrap the rest or use it as reserves just in case of emergency...?

uss
27 Jul 05,, 06:54
The MIG-25s were put out of service quite a while ago.

Wouldn't make much difference. End result would be the same. And ya, don't bring in NATO, that obviously would dramatically alter the result.

USS.

hammer
27 Jul 05,, 07:18
Ajay- the AMRAAM is a no escape missile. It's been fired 10 times in combat, resulting in 6 kills. The 4 "misses" are because 2 missiles we fired at the same target, and the second one self destructed after the target was dead. No AC has survived an AMRAAM encounter in combat (so far).

BTW, Johnny is right, the MiG-25's are out of service for some time now....

Highsea,
If a heatseaker missile is fired towards a fighter, one of the tactics that the targetted fighter employs is flying towards the Sun and veering off, confusing the heat seaker. What I want to know is if this tactic is relevant even today? Can modern heat seakers(like say AIM9x) discriminiate the Sun's heat from that of an aircraft?

Thanks
Hammer

kashifshahzad
27 Jul 05,, 09:31
What is that, a garage band?

Ajay- the AMRAAM is a no escape missile. It's been fired 10 times in combat, resulting in 6 kills. The 4 "misses" are because 2 missiles we fired at the same target, and the second one self destructed after the target was dead. No AC has survived an AMRAAM encounter in combat (so far).

BTW, Johnny is right, the MiG-25's are out of service for some time now....
F-16's track record is soo good the it knocked 70 and none of the F-16 got hit by the other plane while it was fully loaded with missile i really wanna know that 6 out of those 70 AC's were shot by the AAMRAM but what about others by which missile they were shot this indicates that all those other planes didnt had BVR.Can i have some explanation

highsea
27 Jul 05,, 18:33
...What I want to know is if this tactic is relevant even today? Can modern heat seakers(like say AIM9x) discriminiate the Sun's heat from that of an aircraft? The short answer is no, this will not work against modern IR missiles. Multi-spectrum seekers, with imaging and advanced signal processing will not be fooled by the sun.

but what about others by which missile they were shot this indicates that all those other planes didnt had BVR.Can i have some explanation Well, the AIM-7 is credited with 22 fixed-wing and 3 rotary-wing kills in the Persian Gulf War (pre-AMRAAM days). The Sparrow is a BVR missile too.

Proud Indian
28 Jul 05,, 12:33
F-16's track record is soo good the it knocked 70 and none of the F-16 got hit by the other plane while it was fully loaded with missile i really wanna know that 6 out of those 70 AC's were shot by the AAMRAM but what about others by which missile they were shot this indicates that all those other planes didnt had BVR.Can i have some explanation
Dude ! i agree that F16's are good, but mate u gotta agree that MKI are one of the best. According to me India is gonna win without a doubt but at a cost

Cowboykiller
29 Jul 05,, 10:07
Dude ! i agree that F16's are good, but mate u gotta agree that MKI are one of the best. According to me India is gonna win without a doubt but at a cost


**** no!

No Russian aircraft get's my vote, Apu.

Proud Indian...ha! Just look at what PROUD Americans can do. See pic below:

http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2005/07/27/mn_space_shuttle203.jpg

Adux
29 Jul 05,, 19:03
[QUOTE=Cowboykiller]**** no!

No Russian aircraft get's my vote, Apu.
Proud Indian...ha! Just look at what PROUD Americans can do. See pic below:

hiya

i have been reading this forum for the past 4 months, this is the first time i am posting, what u said over there "Apu" - Cowboykiller --- completly uncalled for and quite racist in the context u used it. give respect and u will get respect.. or maybe u dont want respect ....

PS : Ray, tophatter, m21sniper, lemontree, ajay,confed , highsea,OOE : its cool to final register and put my 2 cents in.,i have learned a lot from u guys and sorry to start my first post like this

kargal
28 Aug 05,, 08:33
Whats wrong with Indian's now they wanted to fight with the World. First of all they should make their own fighter than world will see who they are. The tune is like they wanted to fight to Muslims only. Look at the poverty yester my American fellow gave chairty to India for poverty. Israel Air Force Turkish, Pakistan,USA ,France are on the top. Quality of USA fighters,French, are superior and comes next generation;F17. Best advise do not create haterate and a war. Please wake up, you never know F-86 like action could be played again. :)

kargal
29 Aug 05,, 02:14
Dude ! i agree that F16's are good, but mate u gotta agree that MKI are one of the best. According to me India is gonna win without a doubt but at a cost


Saalay tayra bap mulisman hay-Akber :cool:

kargal
29 Aug 05,, 02:17
**** no!

No Russian aircraft get's my vote, Apu.

Proud Indian...ha! Just look at what PROUD Americans can do. See pic below:

http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2005/07/27/mn_space_shuttle203.jpg



WONDERFULL PICTURE..............LOVE IT. :)

DalerMehndi
29 Aug 05,, 03:47
LOL, around 40% of NASA employees are Indian and a significant percentage of the empolyees of NASA are also Asian...so you should be saying look what a proud Indian/Asian can do.

DalerMehndi
29 Aug 05,, 03:53
Sorry, but the PAF is not even one of the top 15 airforces in the world. As for poverty, India is the 4th wealthiest nation in the world next to Japan, China and the USA. Pakistan on the other hand is one of the poorest nations in the world. Also, don't forget who has been providing your country with food and don't forget who controls almost all the water that goes into Pakistan. If India wants, it can starve Pakistan to death.

As for PAF vs IAF, do you remember in 71' when MiG-21s without air to air missiles shot down PAF F-104s which were armed with air to air missiles.

giggs88
29 Aug 05,, 04:33
Sorry, but the PAF is not even one of the top 15 airforces in the world. As for poverty, India is the 4th wealthiest nation in the world next to Japan, China and the USA. Pakistan on the other hand is one of the poorest nations in the world. Also, don't forget who has been providing your country with food and don't forget who controls almost all the water that goes into Pakistan. If India wants, it can starve Pakistan to death.

As for PAF vs IAF, do you remember in 71' when MiG-21s without air to air missiles shot down PAF F-104s which were armed with air to air missiles.

India, the 4th wealthiest nation in the world? Did you pull that out of your ass? I see starving Indian children on "Feed The Children" commericals here every morning. India and China are growing and have significantly wealthy people in them, but no way are they even in the top 10 wealthiest nations list.

brownboi4eva
29 Aug 05,, 05:42
giggs he meant as an economy India is the 4th strongest. but not wealthiest...but if Indias poverty declines at the rate it has been it will be better of than USA by the year 2020....they cut it by half in a decade - that is impressive

im not going to dwell on Pure land. anyways im sure PAF can take on IAF, USAF, RAF and all the others for that matter :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Samudra
29 Aug 05,, 06:06
India, the 4th wealthiest nation in the world? Did you pull that out of your ass? I see starving Indian children on "Feed The Children" commericals here every morning. India and China are growing and have significantly wealthy people in them, but no way are they even in the top 10 wealthiest nations list.

When were those commercials filmed? :confused:
I live in India , travel eighty kilometers a day and cant see a starving child. :rolleyes:

giggs88
29 Aug 05,, 06:57
When were those commercials filmed? :confused:
I live in India , travel eighty kilometers a day and cant see a starving child. :rolleyes:


I don't know where you live. But those commericals sure as hell weren't filmed in the 90s.

ProudIndian - You can be proud all you want, but please stop dreaming and imagining the unimaginable.

DalerMehndi - Those 40% of Indians that work at NASA are AMERICAN. They might have an Indian heritage, but they're American through and through.

Samudra
29 Aug 05,, 08:12
gigs88
There are no more than a handfull of people starving in India , and those handfull can be found in any country.We acknowledge that we had very bad food shortages a while ago , but we have overcome those and its a thing of the past.This perception of starvation in India has to change for it no longer reflects the ground realities. :)

and lets not feed the trolls , let them starve ;)
I live in South India.

giggs88
29 Aug 05,, 08:25
This perception of starvation in India has to change for it no longer reflects the ground realities. :)

Don't get me wrong, I know for fact that India isn't anything like countries struck by extreme famine and poverty in Africa. But that guy made it sound as if India was ultra-rich, heaven-on-earth.

Samudra
29 Aug 05,, 08:33
I know you did not Gigs , but these WAB pages are read by hundreds everyday. :)

And as for the trolls , starve them ;)

lemontree
29 Aug 05,, 08:44
Proud Indian...ha! Just look at what PROUD Americans can do. See pic below:

http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2005/07/27/mn_space_shuttle203.jpg
Cowboykiller,
Good for America....
This what the PROUD Indians also do....
Launch of the GSAT-2 a geosynchronous satellite.
http://www.domain-b.com/economy/infrastructure/space/images/gslv.jpg

bull
29 Aug 05,, 09:22
I know you did not Gigs , but these WAB pages are read by hundreds everyday. :)

And as for the trolls , starve them ;)

Well i hate Jingoism too....( have u read the post of lanbhorginis,porsches,ferraris and aston martins fleeing on mumbai roads)

SpoiderBoy
29 Aug 05,, 09:31
A better comparison would be Greece vs Turkey, they are both part of NATO and its about time the Greeks take back Constantinople.

"Bring back our kids you Cyprus spiltting jerks" - Homer Simpson to turkish captain
BTW Apu Rocks

DalerMehndi
29 Aug 05,, 21:31
I don't know where you live. But those commericals sure as hell weren't filmed in the 90s.

ProudIndian - You can be proud all you want, but please stop dreaming and imagining the unimaginable.

DalerMehndi - Those 40% of Indians that work at NASA are AMERICAN. They might have an Indian heritage, but they're American through and through.
They were all born, brought up and educated in India and most of them have Indian citizenship. Eitherway, they will always be Indians. As for starving children, i have been all over India for months at a time and i have yet to see any starving children out on the streets the way those commericals show.

By the way, in my earlier post, i meant that India is the 4th strongest economy. As for wealth, it is the 9th or 10th wealthiest nation right now. I think it overtook Australia or something.

babushree
30 Aug 05,, 03:09
yes,i said one of the best airforces.
I am sure you will say the same for your looser countrymen PAKIstanis who humiliatingly lost in 1971.
in recent excercises in India and Alaska and then in Singapore, IAF surprised all of those F16 fliers. Turkey! she has been getting kicked around for almost for a century after being defeated by english army, which put an end to ottoman terrorism. Coincidently, most of the english army was made of non-moslem indian men.
Turkey is a varmint country for the europeans.

Admins, this guy just has some serious Islamophobic issues. Banning him.

babushree
30 Aug 05,, 03:21
Cowboykiller,
Good for America....
This what the PROUD Indians also do....
Launch of the GSAT-2 a geosynchronous satellite.
http://www.domain-b.com/economy/infrastructure/space/images/gslv.jpg
no offence bro!
but the credit goes to USA for indian rocketry and you need to read the history of indian rocketry. lets separate our thinking from the islamic thinking, those varmints are just in our neighborhood and we are not moslems to side with the moslems. we, the indians owe a lot to America. I say god bless America and the free world.

babushree
30 Aug 05,, 03:48
Oops, editted your post.

This forum is not the place for such hatefilled drivel.

DalerMehndi
30 Aug 05,, 06:15
no offence bro!
but the credit goes to USA for indian rocketry and you need to read the history of indian rocketry. lets separate our thinking from the islamic thinking, those varmints are just in our neighborhood and we are not moslems to side with the moslems. we, the indians owe a lot to America. I say god bless America and the free world.

You don't even know what your talking about do you...as far as India's indigenous rocketry is concerned, the USA doesn't get any credit. It was trying to help Pakistan at that time and it did nothing to help India. Also, what do you mean by "islamic" thinking?

lemontree
30 Aug 05,, 06:22
I am sure you will say the same for your looser countrymen PAKIstanis who humiliatingly lost in 1971.
in recent excercises in India and Alaska and then in Singapore, IAF surprised all of those F16 fliers. Turkey! she has been getting kicked around for almost for a century after being defeated by english army, which put an end to ottoman terrorism. Coincidently, most of the english army was made of non-moslem indian men.
Turkey is a varmint country for the europeans.
That was uncalled for.

lemontree
30 Aug 05,, 06:23
we, the indians owe a lot to America. I say god bless America and the free world.
No denying that and we are gratefull to them.

DalerMehndi
30 Aug 05,, 06:30
babushree, no offence or anything...but if you want to engage in a flame war with pakistanis or muslims, here are some sites where that is acceptable:

www.pakdef.info
www.pakistanidefenceforum.com
www.strategypage.com

babushree
30 Aug 05,, 13:34
babushree, no offence or anything...but if you want to engage in a flame war with pakistanis or muslims, here are some sites where that is acceptable

www.apostatesofislam.com
www.faithfreedom.org

DM!!!
you gotta lot to learn ma friend, because you are confused. just the way you were confused and not sure if india had su-27 or not but MKI31 for sure.
similarly, you need to learn a lot about *racist slur* psyche. let me help ya out with couple of sites I posted above for ya.

thanx for the sites you posted. pal!
guess what?
i been lambasting those clowns for a long time. I live in USA and dude!!! no one has accepted ma challenge for "face to face" debate with in north america from that *racist slur* defence site.
no offence. you may wanna accuse ma "punjabi" blood. and you!!!!!
stop being "leftist"

DalerMehndi
30 Aug 05,, 23:51
www.apostatesofislam.com
www.faithfreedom.org

DM!!!
you gotta lot to learn ma friend, because you are confused. just the way you were confused and not sure if india had su-27 or not but MKI31 for sure.
similarly, you need to learn a lot about *racist slur* psyche. let me help ya out with couple of sites I posted above for ya.

thanx for the sites you posted. pal!
guess what?
i been lambasting those clowns for a long time. I live in USA and dude!!! no one has accepted ma challenge for "face to face" debate with in north america from that *racist slur* defence site.
no offence. you may wanna accuse ma "punjabi" blood. and you!!!!!
stop being "leftist"
uh...since when was i confused about the Su-27 and Su-30mki? Your the one who claimed that India has Su-27s even though it has never had them. I know exactly what the IAF has and what it does not have. As for your whole philosophy of screaming at Muslims, it won't solve anything on this forum since most of the Pakistanis and Muslims on this forum are decent people and all the flame wars are over now.

"
Quote:
Originally Posted by babushree

yeappppp!!!!
IAF has a fairly large number of SU-27. all have been upgraded with up-to-date avinionics thru Israel."

kargal
08 Sep 05,, 09:48
I am sure you will say the same for your looser countrymen PAKIstanis who humiliatingly lost in 1971.
in recent excercises in India and Alaska and then in Singapore, IAF surprised all of those F16 fliers. Turkey! she has been getting kicked around for almost for a century after being defeated by english army, which put an end to ottoman terrorism. Coincidently, most of the english army was made of non-moslem indian men.
Turkey is a varmint country for the europeans.

Admins, this guy just has some serious Islamophobic issues. Banning him.


Hey.... pay thanks to Bangaladeshi (former PAF), they let you win without dog fight.
All the PAF sorties were called back to base with loaded weapons & also thanks to Yahya, who ordered it; mission was acomplished; Bangladesh was borne. "Indra" took a long breath one side but other side she cried for help. Mr. President Nixon, rescue me, help me please. "Nixon said to Chui in lee, (Chinese FM)look this Woman, interfered in Pakistani domestics affairs and now asking for help. :eek:

Turkey was not defeated by Briton but Russia due to Germans (Hitler) mistake/judgment( not supplying help on front line, in Russia) Read history.

lemontree
08 Sep 05,, 09:55
Hey pay thanks to Bangaladeshi(former PAF), they let you win without dog fight.
All the PAF sorties were called back to base with weapons & also thanks to Yahya who ordered it, mission was success; Bangladesh was borne.
Where did you learn this crap? Have read about the dog fights over Boyra (Bangladesh) on 22nd Nov 1971. 3 PAF F-86 were shot down by 4 IAF Folland Gnats. It is just that PAF had just 1+ sqn in East Pakistan which could not do much, and were grounded during the entire war.

"Indra" took a long breath one side but other side she cryied for help. Mr. President Nixon rescue me, help me. Nixon said to Chu in lee, (chinees FM)look this cat,interfared in Pkaistani domistick affairs and asking for help.
You are hallucinating again. It was not Indira but Gen Yahaya Khan that begger Nixon for help. At that time Nixon was Yahaya's friend and not India's friend.

indianguy4u
08 Sep 05,, 10:28
Where did you learn this crap? Have read about the dog fights over Boyra (Bangladesh) on 22nd Nov 1971. 3 PAF F-86 were shot down by 4 IAF Folland Gnats. It is just that PAF had just 1+ sqn in East Pakistan which could not do much, and were grounded during the entire war.

You are hallucinating again. It was not Indira but Gen Yahaya Khan that begger Nixon for help. At that time Nixon was Yahaya's friend and not India's friend.
Sir some no no all pakistanis are fed on a rich diet of madarssa education. They badly need a reality check :biggrin:.

Jay
08 Sep 05,, 10:59
I see starving Indian children on "Feed The Children" commericals here every morning.
Wrong analogy. Feed the children feeds American children as well. As for starving Indian kids, they are everywhere. Does that change anything said about America?? Not to mention that FTC is a religious (Christian) Org, which IMO is not worth a discussion.

BTW, instead of giving hand outs to starving parents and children, in India there is something called food for work ;) And also there are numerous village self help groups (SHG's). Read abouty them.


India and China are growing and have significantly wealthy people in them, but no way are they even in the top 10 wealthiest nations list.
Ofcourse, for India to reach the level of a developed country, as UNDP report said, it will take atleast 60-100 years.

Sameer
08 Sep 05,, 12:39
What is economics doing in the air warfare thread?

tsk tsk tsk

Why do some Indians here, my countrymen, lower your iq so much so as to respond to any idiot that decides to post in a free forum. Madrassah education is something which we cannot beat.

Wing-man
24 Sep 05,, 15:56
Are we talking about PAF or turkish airforce????????????????

Wing-man
24 Sep 05,, 16:03
I think Turkish airforce past doesn't tell what it is now at that time when turkish people were fighting WW-II IAF was just ******** now turkey is a member of NATO its airforce has is having F-16, patriot missles, Air borne radar system, which india doesn't have now

ajaybhutani
26 Sep 05,, 05:11
I think Turkish airforce past doesn't tell what it is now at that time when turkish people were fighting WW-II IAF was just ******** now turkey is a member of NATO its airforce has is having F-16, patriot missles, Air borne radar system, which india doesn't have now
india has SU30MKi, Mig29, Mirage2000 & a decent mix of anti aircraft defence, Phalcon will be there in a year or two. and of course A2A missiles like R77,R73.

SuperFlanker
26 Sep 05,, 05:21
India also has the Python 4/5 A2A missiles.

lemontree
26 Sep 05,, 10:54
I think Turkish airforce past doesn't tell what it is now at that time when turkish people were fighting WW-II IAF was just ********
That is crap. In WW2 Turkey was a neutral country, even had a no-war pact with Germany and when the allied nations had nearly won the war, declared war on Germany only in Feb 1945, i.e 5 years after 2 million Indian soldiers along with millions of other allied troops had already helped in the fight against the axis forces.

Gazi
27 Sep 05,, 17:04
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=24298


IDEF F16


ANKARA - Turkish Daily News

Turkey's military officials hope much from a comprehensive package of upgrades on the country's fleet of F-16 fighter jets.

�The upgrade package will contribute a lot to our air warfare capabilities,� a senior Air Force official told the Turkish Daily News. �The program will maximize the lifetime of the fleet with the most advanced technology available.�

A defense official pointed out that the program also involves electronic warfare capabilities, although Turkey has been quite delayed in earning these capabilities on its F-16 fighters. �True, there have been major delays in our second package of electronic warfare program. But the delay and incorporating this program into the overall upgrade work, will now earn us a more advanced technology.�

In April, Turkey and the United States penned a $1.1 billion contract for the upgrade of a batch of 117 F-16 fighter jets.

Under the deal, the aircraft will undergo a comprehensive modernization package until 2012. The upgrade work will be done by the world's largest defense company, Lockheed Martin.

A $400 million portion of the deal would be sub-contracted and granted in offset agreements to Turkey's local defense industry.

The planned F-16 upgrade capabilities will include electronic warfare systems, advanced radars, integration of the modular mission computer, night vision goggles and various missile systems.

Also included are systems integration and testing, software development, test sets and support equipment, spare and repair parts, maintenance and personnel training. Five additional weapon systems are also included: Infrared improved SIDEWINDER-TVC (Germany), PENGUIN (Norway), PYTHON-5 (Israel), DERBY (Israel) and SPICE (Israel).

The deal has an option for the upgrade of a follow-on batch of nearly 100 fighters, and the U.S. follow-on proposal is valid until Dec. 31, 2006.

The upgrade program aims to raise the technical capabilities of the Turkish fighters to the most advanced available level. The chosen upgrade package will earn the Turkish fighters CCIP (Common Configuration Improvement Program) standard.

Last October, the Pentagon's Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) notified Congress of the planned sale to Turkey of the F-16 modernization package as well as associated equipment and services. The package, covering an eventual fleet of 218 aircraft, would cost Turkey $3.9 billion if all options were exercised. Congress formally approved the package Oct. 23.

The principal contractors for the planned upgrade work will be BAE Advanced Systems, Boeing Integrated Defense Systems, Harris Corporation Government Communications Systems Division, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company, Lockheed Martin Missiles and Fire Control, Northrop Grumman Electro-Optical Systems, Northrop Grumman Electronic Systems, and Raytheon Missile Systems.

Washington ruled out �any regional political problems because of the proposed sale.� The Pentagon said that the F-16 upgrade package would contribute to the foreign policy and national security objectives of the United States by improving the military capabilities of Turkey and further weapon system standardization and interoperability with U.S. forces.

It also said the sale will not adversely affect either the military balance in the region or U.S. efforts to encourage a negotiated settlement of the Cyprus question.










does India have anything like AWACS ? you know recognizing over 3.000 flying planes at the same time with one AWACS-plane ?

Gazi
27 Sep 05,, 17:10
Eurofighter consortium (Germany, Italy, Britain, Spain) ... 4 countries.

Want Turkey become part of the consortium:

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=24441


They do not want to sell Turkey Eurofighter, they want turkey join the Eurofighter GMBH Konsortium as the 5th Country..

Gazi
27 Sep 05,, 17:34
Türk Hava Kuvetleri Silah Envanteri

Air-to-air missiles
314 AIM-120A/B AMRAAM (176 AIM-120A + 138 AIM-120B)
367 AIM-7E Sparrow
500 AIM-9M Sidewinder
640 AIM-9L/I Sidewinder
310 AIM-9S Sidewinder
750+ AIM-9P3 Sidewinder


Air-to-ground missiles
96 AGM-88B HARM
100 Popeye I
n/a Delilah II Cruise missile (50 ordered)
274 AGM-65G Maverick IIR
550 AGM-65A/B Maverick
200 GBU 8/B HOBOS
1.200 Paveway I-II
523 BLU 107 Durandal
n/a AN/AVQ 23 Pave Spike (laser designation pod for F-4E)
40 AN/AAQ 14 LANTIRN
40 AN/AAQ 13 LANTIRN
n/a Litening-III (20 under delivery, 20 optional)
12 LOROPS-IR




Anti-aircraft missiles
n/a I-Hawk PIP III (1X3) launchers (24 launchers to be delivered in 2005)
72 MIM-14B Nike Hercules
86 Rapier FSB1 (85 launchers updated to Rapier B1X level. 840 additional Mk2B missiles under delivery)
n/a Zipkin KMS (1X4 FIM-92 mounted Stinger) (32 ordered)
108 FIM-92C Stinger RMP





+
SIDEWINDER-TVC (Germany), PENGUIN (Norway), PYTHON-5 (Israel), DERBY (Israel) and SPICE (Israel) with ongoing CCIP modernization oproject.

In Kayseri/ Turkey we have a F-16 plant. Exporting F-16 from there to Kuwait and soon.


NATOs Airforce Headquarter is in Izmir/Turkey. :)

Gazi
27 Sep 05,, 17:50
After US Air Force, Turkish Air Force has the most number of F-16 aircraft in the world. Turkish Air Force can participate in exercises conducted overseas. With in-flight refueling capability, Turkish aircraft can join live exercises in central Europe and return to home bases in Turkey, and fly directly from Turkey to USA crossing the Atlantic Ocean.
http://www.biologydaily.com/biology/Military_of_Turkey#Air_Force_2





what is the Military Budget of india?



India
$16.97 billion (2004)


Turkey
$12.155 billion (2003)


http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tu.html#Military


:)

indianguy4u
27 Sep 05,, 17:57
have u bothered to read the whole thread.

indianguy4u
27 Sep 05,, 17:58
Eurofighter consortium (Germany, Italy, Britain, Spain) ... 4 countries.

Want Turkey become part of the consortium:

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=24441


They do not want to sell Turkey Eurofighter, they want turkey join the Eurofighter GMBH Konsortium as the 5th Country..
First tell what can turkey bring to the project other than few orders for the beligered bird.

Gazi
27 Sep 05,, 18:03
First tell what can turkey bring to the project other than few orders for the beligered bird.




Chief Executive Officer Giovanni Bertolone of Alenia Aeronautica, the Italian partner in the Eurofighter consortium, said during a news conference on Monday that the group offers a �fast lane� for Turkey to increase its role in the global aerospace industry, saying the group �wants to share a common vision [with Turkey] in partnership.�


Enzo Casolini, senior vice president of military cooperation of Alenia Aeronautica, said during the press conference that the Eurofighter group was involved in meetings with Turkish officials. �We want to make Turkey our partner,� he said.

�This is the largest European procurement program in the world, and it is based on [Italy, United Kingdom, Spain and Germany's] �equal partnership' of four nations,� said Andy Lewis, vice president of export sales support of Alenia Aeronautica.

Regarding the form of the partnership with Turkey, Lewis said they are �exploring with Turkish officials and the industry, the optimal format for Turkey's participation.�

�We want to see the most appropriate way forward, we want to see what's a good deal for all of us,� Lewis added.

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=24441


ask CEOs of participating Eurofighter Consortium

Gazi
27 Sep 05,, 18:07
have u bothered to read the whole thread.


yes i read the whole thread.

Gazi
27 Sep 05,, 18:11
Does India have fuel-planes to fuel up aircrafts in Air? or do your jets have to land to refuel?

indianguy4u
27 Sep 05,, 18:18
Does India have fuel-planes to fuel up aircrafts in Air? or do your jets have to land to refuel?
IAF do have Inflight refuelers.

Will acquire Phalcon by '07-'08.

indianguy4u
27 Sep 05,, 18:21
yes i read the whole thread.
As per ur analysis whats the result would be & why?

Gazi
27 Sep 05,, 18:25
thank you for that information. India and Turkey are far away. without fueling in air nothing would be possible.


As i said the only F-16 plant not in US territory is in Turkey. We do produce there F-16 in licence and export them.

We are participating in the JSF-Program.
And now as it seems Eurofighter Consortium wants us to participate in Eurofighter-Program.

For the 2nd and 3rd tranches of the eurofighters.
I don not underestimate India. But we have nearly the same military budget.
And our Airforce is not crap. After Israels Airforce the best in the region.

Also turkish pilots have many training-hours in Nato-standard more than most NATO-members.
But Turkey is not capable of building its own Aircraft. We have to cooperate for an aircraft in JSF and Eurofighter programm.


Do you have any Indian Airforce links? such as future project and soon?
would apreciate that.

indianguy4u
27 Sep 05,, 18:32
Do you have any Indian Airforce links? such as future project and soon?
would apreciate thatU can find many on this (AF thread & Asian M&S thread). Also there are many Sites unofficial for Indian Def. Google would help. Few are Vayusena.com, bharatrashak.com, frontierindia.com. There are many more.

Gazi
27 Sep 05,, 20:41
This thread is ********, as i can not see any scenario comeing where india's airforce will face turkey's airforce.

Turkish foreign policy has nothing to do with india region except than pakistan. And i think india has no policy on turkish region, caucasus and central asia, too.
But a war between pakistan and india is ridiculous, too.

the only scenario could be world-war.

Sameer
27 Sep 05,, 23:42
This thread is ********, as i can not see any scenario comeing where india's airforce will face turkey's airforce.

Turkish foreign policy has nothing to do with india region except than pakistan. And i think india has no policy on turkish region, caucasus and central asia, too.
But a war between pakistan and india is ridiculous, too.

the only scenario could be world-war.

:biggrin:

You might as well give up mate your Turks and us Indians will never fight each other, this thread is stupid, I have said it many pages back already but alas......

tphuang
28 Sep 05,, 03:42
After US Air Force, Turkish Air Force has the most number of F-16 aircraft in the world. Turkish Air Force can participate in exercises conducted overseas. With in-flight refueling capability, Turkish aircraft can join live exercises in central Europe and return to home bases in Turkey, and fly directly from Turkey to USA crossing the Atlantic Ocean.
http://www.biologydaily.com/biology/Military_of_Turkey#Air_Force_2





what is the Military Budget of india?



India
$16.97 billion (2004)


Turkey
$12.155 billion (2003)


http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/tu.html#Military


:)
The real Indian budget is larger than that. India doesn't count everything with the $17 billion.

Gazi
28 Sep 05,, 11:45
The real Indian budget is larger than that. India doesn't count everything with the $17 billion.



Perhaps Turkey's military budget is higher too. ;)
Perhaps India's too. Who knows.

I do not want to make speculations. But for comparison CIA is here the public source.

ajaybhutani
28 Sep 05,, 14:29
Perhaps Turkey's military budget is higher too. ;)
Perhaps India's too. Who knows.

I do not want to make speculations. But for comparison CIA is here the public source.
U failed to include the purchasing power of the currencies, proportion of local & foreign purchases.
And frankly one dsnt need to make speculations. We all know budget for DRDO isnt a part of defence budget. Apart from that the investment in secret projects like ATV & of course the money going in nukes. its all outside the budget allocation.

Sameer
28 Sep 05,, 22:05
Indian defence budget stands at around 17 billion USD in real terms plus 10 billion CAPEX. There is also another fund which does not come under the perview of parliament, that figure is unknown but it pays fr such nice things as nukes and missiles.

The CIA factbook as I have pointed out on many occasions has outdated info on many occassions, the GDP it reports for India is even outdated in 05. There is a one year lag in general with the factbook.

uss
29 Sep 05,, 05:16
thank you for that information. India and Turkey are far away. without fueling in air nothing would be possible.


Gazi,

the distance between ankara and delhi is about 4200 kms.

You do realize that the SU 30MKi has a huge range and combat endurance (with inflight refuelling this baby can stay up for 10 hours at a stretch and has a range of 8000km!) No f16 is going to match that.... it is too small and has just one pilot! So the chance of the IAF reaching turkey (though difficult) is a lot more than the turkey reaching india.

Futhermore, in case of war, i'm sure the IN will be utilized in a big way.. the massive tu 142 bear comes to mind right away... this a/c can stay up there for a long, long, long time, with mki's acting as escorts, they could carry a considerable load including nasties like brahmos/klub etc to turkey. oh, and they are about to get backfires as well. The IL 38s would probly also be pushed into service.

India is already able to project power in a to an extent (garuda II in istres, france proved the IAf's ability to travel all over). In the near future this capability will increase considerably. Also india is supposed to have a base in tajikistan, this too may come in handy being a little closer to the central asian region.

More seriously, i don't think such a scenario is likely. I sure hope not as I have a strong liking for turkey ( the land of the great hazrat Jalaluddin Rumi, RA).

Regards,
uss.

Sameer
29 Sep 05,, 15:05
Gazi,

the distance between ankara and delhi is about 4200 kms.

You do realize that the SU 30MKi has a huge range and combat endurance (with inflight refuelling this baby can stay up for 10 hours at a stretch and has a range of 8000km!) No f16 is going to match that.... it is too small and has just one pilot! So the chance of the IAF reaching turkey (though difficult) is a lot more than the turkey reaching india.

Futhermore, in case of war, i'm sure the IN will be utilized in a big way.. the massive tu 142 bear comes to mind right away... this a/c can stay up there for a long, long, long time, with mki's acting as escorts, they could carry a considerable load including nasties like brahmos/klub etc to turkey. oh, and they are about to get backfires as well. The IL 38s would probly also be pushed into service.

India is already able to project power in a to an extent (garuda II in istres, france proved the IAf's ability to travel all over). In the near future this capability will increase considerably. Also india is supposed to have a base in tajikistan, this too may come in handy being a little closer to the central asian region.

More seriously, i don't think such a scenario is likely. I sure hope not as I have a strong liking for turkey ( the land of the great hazrat Jalaluddin Rumi, RA).

Regards,
uss.


India will need to gain permission to cross the airspace of too many wacky Islamic countries, its not even worth it and our MKIs would be strained to the teeth, its simply not feasible and the IN will not want to operate its two carriers in that region.

INdia is not important to Turkey and Turkey is not important to India, this is an idiotic thread.

uss
29 Sep 05,, 23:29
India will need to gain permission to cross the airspace of too many wacky Islamic countries, its not even worth it and our MKIs would be strained to the teeth, its simply not feasible and the IN will not want to operate its two carriers in that region.

INdia is not important to Turkey and Turkey is not important to India, this is an idiotic thread.

Agreed! however, it does amuse me a bit to see that you keep posting in this thread despite it being a hairbrained topic. :biggrin:

uss.

indianguy4u
30 Sep 05,, 11:32
Just for sake info:

1] distance between london & ankara is 2835 kms & upto lisbon is 3580 km.
2] distance between northern most tip of India Indira Col[siachen] & southern most tip Indira Point is 3600 km [as the crow flies]. While north to south tip on the mainland India is 3214 km.
3] distance between east-west tip is 2400 km.

[sources:
http://www.wcrl.ars.usda.gov/cec/java/lat-long.htm
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020206/edit.htm
http://www.kuttyjapan.com/india/ ]

Sameer
30 Sep 05,, 19:39
Agreed! however, it does amuse me a bit to see that you keep posting in this thread despite it being a hairbrained topic. :biggrin:

uss.


Well it is a stupid thread but I was very bored yesterday.

rightway44
24 Apr 08,, 14:21
There is a big difference in quality and quantity.
When it comes to war affairs ,these 2 factors count for a lot.
When comparing India,Turkey,Israel and Pakistan,you keep the facts in mind.News propaganda in newspapers and magazines prove bogus.
Indian by quantity is a bigger power out of above 4 powers.
But if you look in deep ,Israel and Pakistan are on Top in Quality of their air force.They have proved it many times now and in the past.
Indian are just piling up.They need strict training.Turkey has better planes but recently their quality of air force services has gone down .

Officer of Engineers
24 Apr 08,, 14:23
Thread locked. No more a versus b threads please