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  • The US, a Democracy?

    OK after watching the news here I was enjoying the NEWS articles and reports coming out of the US in reference to the California Election for Gov.

    I was surprised to find out that there was 155 canidates for Gov and yet only 3 were really give a chance to put themselves forward to the public on TV etc from what I could see. The report only mentioned the main 3 and only referered to the rest of the canidates as "The other Canidates" Not one mention of who they were or what they stood for.

    Is this democracy? or is it just the richest gets the TV time?

    Here in New Zealand, every party or canidate gets air time on all radio states and TV channels. Even the Idoit parties.


    Now an interesting point that has just happened here was the US Ambassador trying to give a speech at Victoria Univesity here stating NZ wont get any free trade deals or any other big deals until we remove our Anti-Nuke policies, which ban all Nuclear powered or armed vessals and aircraft from NZ and her waters.

    I can tell you now that NZ wont be dropping that policy, it was put into place by the Prime minister and is backed by nearly 80% of the population.

    Is this the US telling us how to run our own nation?

  • #2
    Well no, the United States has never been a democracy. The US practices a republic form of government, wherein you have to kind of work your way to the top (or be a celebrity) of the political heap.
    Theres more to it, but gotta get back to work
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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    • #3
      The US doesn't have state-owned TV and radio. Private corporations (imo) have no obligation to do as state-owned media does in New Zealand.
      "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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      • #4
        The United States is not a democracy, in fact our founding fathers denounced it as the most vile form of government, worst then Aristrocracy and Monarchy. Democracy is the notion of majority rule. It is for all intensive purposes the tyranny of the majority. Aristotle I believe was killed by the will of the majority in Ancient Athens. The United States is Federal Constitutional Republic. Federal means the power is devided among the States and the US Government. Constitutional means even the Government is subjected to the rule of law(the constitution). States write their constitution and as long as it does not violate the rights layed out in the US Constitution their constitution is allowed.

        I do have a problem with recall elections because it leans more towards democracy were the majority can do whatever it pleases. Your argument is ass backwards because the problem is that we are becoming more democratic and we are abandoning the Repuplic we were founded as.

        Here in New Zealand, every party or canidate gets air time on all radio states and TV channels. Even the Idoit parties.
        In other words the Government violates the rights of it's citizens to private property and free speech just to have equal air time. The objective of Government is to protect our rights, not to strip them away for such a stupid notion.

        Now an interesting point that has just happened here was the US Ambassador trying to give a speech at Victoria Univesity here stating NZ wont get any free trade deals or any other big deals until we remove our Anti-Nuke policies, which ban all Nuclear powered or armed vessals and aircraft from NZ and her waters.
        In other words 80% of your population is ignorant about how Nuclear Powered Submarines and Aircraft Carriers work. So they fear it for no reason. So they sacrifice free trade with the largest market in the world, thats real brilliant.

        Nuclear weapons can't just randomly detonate, the explosive has to explode all at the exact same time for fission to take place. This can not happen by accident.
        Last edited by Praxus; 08 Oct 03,, 21:00.

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        • #5
          Re: The US, a Democracy?

          Originally posted by griff3n0
          Now an interesting point that has just happened here was the US Ambassador trying to give a speech at Victoria Univesity here stating NZ wont get any free trade deals or any other big deals until we remove our Anti-Nuke policies, which ban all Nuclear powered or armed vessals and aircraft from NZ and her waters.

          I can tell you now that NZ wont be dropping that policy, it was put into place by the Prime minister and is backed by nearly 80% of the population.

          Is this the US telling us how to run our own nation?
          All the US is telling you in a nutshell is, if you don't scratch our back we wont scratch yours.
          Your look more lost than a bastard child on fathers day.

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          • #6
            Wow interesting responces, hehe yes I was aware of the US being a republic, but one of the favorite sayings of most americans "we bring democracy to the world"

            Actually its not the state-owned TV media that do the majority of the fair broadcasting of the canidates, its actually the privately owned companies. The state owned media allows the amjority parties to promote themselves afe days before the election.

            And as for the Nuclear issue, the effects of Nuclear power and the safety related to it is widely known by most people here, we just prefer to live without nuclear energy and we dont want nuclear ships etc into NZ. That is our right, but the biggest problem is the fact that the US seems to want other nations to tow the line or miss out.....

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            • #7
              Wow interesting responces, hehe yes I was aware of the US being a republic, but one of the favorite sayings of most americans "we bring democracy to the world"

              Actually its not the state-owned TV media that do the majority of the fair broadcasting of the canidates, its actually the privately owned companies. The state owned media allows the amjority parties to promote themselves afe days before the election.

              And as for the Nuclear issue, the effects of Nuclear power and the safety related to it is widely known by most people here, we just prefer to live without nuclear energy and we dont want nuclear ships etc into NZ. That is our right, but the biggest problem is the fact that the US seems to want other nations to tow the line or miss out.....
              People have somehow morfed Democracy into meaning what the American system is. They aren't sugesting majority rule by it they just don't know what a true democracy was.

              Your government FORCES the private companies to show all of the canadites. If the channel is state owned or not is a moot point.

              Sure you can ban nuclear powered ships but don't expect us to be signing free trade agreenments. Your people obviously have little idea about nuclear powered vesels and nuclear weapons.

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              • #8
                Re: The US, a Democracy?

                Originally posted by griff3n0
                Now an interesting point that has just happened here was the US Ambassador trying to give a speech at Victoria Univesity here stating NZ wont get any free trade deals or any other big deals until we remove our Anti-Nuke policies, which ban all Nuclear powered or armed vessals and aircraft from NZ and her waters.

                I can tell you now that NZ wont be dropping that policy, it was put into place by the Prime minister and is backed by nearly 80% of the population.

                Is this the US telling us how to run our own nation?
                No it's the US telling you that if you don't let any of our navy ships dock in your ports, we're not giving you a free trade deal. I think that's petty clear.

                That is our right, but the biggest problem is the fact that the US seems to want other nations to tow the line or miss out.....
                It is you right, and it's our right not to give you a trade deal. Is that really unfair, we're not forcing you into anything. People have got to start to realize that their actions have consequences, and stop getting all pissed of because you can't have everything you want.

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                • #9
                  errr..so whats the crux of this post??

                  The recall ??
                  Is USA a democracy or not??
                  NZ not allowing SSN's and SSBN's.
                  Or the trade deal to NZ??

                  If its recall, u cant do jack, because it was the will of the "cali"fornian people.
                  Y?es it does set a bad orecedence, if you have couple million dollars you can force a guy out like Issa did.:ermm

                  But OTOH, Gray Davis is disliked by majority of people, as in a true democracy, they voiced their concern and changed the head.

                  NZ not allwing nuke powered carriers bcoz they dont want get dirty. May be the answer lies with Indonesia or other South East Asian countries...when they invade NZ (assume) then the people wud get to know whats better and whats not better.

                  AFA trade deals, well again NZ is in USA's mercy. so :P
                  A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

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                  • #10
                    Why would we give you a fair trade deal when you won't let our ships into your waters?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jay
                      Y?es it does set a bad orecedence, if you have couple million dollars you can force a guy out like Issa did.:ermm
                      Issa can start all the recalls he wants, but if the people don't vote for the recall then he is just wasting his money.

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                      • #12
                        Yup, i guess thats what i said.

                        But blaming Gray Davis for economy, crumbling infrastructure, floundering education is kinda pre-mature.

                        These things didnt happen yesterday or last month, the same californian people elected Gray davis 6-7 months back. I guess its just waste of time and money.

                        So we shud THINK before we elect. There are lot of negative things in this recall, as well as positive things.

                        But, it wud be hard for the politicians to take serious decisions that affects the people in short term (that may incite people wrath), but it may be good for the long term. So isnt that bad for the country and state? What do u guys think about that??

                        Err..i'm hijacking this thread :angel
                        A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

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                        • #13
                          errr..so whats the crux of this post??
                          The recall ??
                          Is USA a democracy or not??
                          NZ not allowing SSN's and SSBN's.
                          Or the trade deal to NZ??
                          No, no, no...I get it, the US isn't democratic because they wont give NZ a FTA in exchange for nothing!

                          :LOL :LOL

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jay
                            Yup, i guess thats what i said.

                            But blaming Gray Davis for economy, crumbling infrastructure, floundering education is kinda pre-mature.

                            These things didnt happen yesterday or last month, the same californian people elected Gray davis 6-7 months back. I guess its just waste of time and money.

                            So we shud THINK before we elect. There are lot of negative things in this recall, as well as positive things.

                            But, it wud be hard for the politicians to take serious decisions that affects the people in short term (that may incite people wrath), but it may be good for the long term. So isnt that bad for the country and state? What do u guys think about that??

                            Err..i'm hijacking this thread :angel
                            I actually agree. I'm not a big fan of this recall thing. If we're not careful, we could turn into Italy, and be electing a new government every six months. I would have voted for the recall though because how many times are you going to get the chance to get rid of Davis.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by ZFBoxcar
                              No, no, no...I get it, the US isn't democratic because they wont give NZ a FTA in exchange for nothing!

                              :LOL :LOL
                              u got it mate :dbanana
                              A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

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