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DOR
04 Mar 17,, 12:01
I saw this movie last night, and had a chat with the man himself, Greg Palast.
The Best Democracy Money Can Buy:
A Tale of Billionaires & Ballot Bandits
There’s a lot that needs verifying, and a lot that might be considered distracting.

But, if even 1/10th is true, American democracy is in deep, deep trouble.

Not the GOPer-Dems can’t get along kind of trouble.
Not the Russian interference in elections kind of trouble.
Not the Orange-Baboon-in-the-White-House kind of trouble.

Real trouble.

The Election was Stolen – Here’s How…
by Greg Palast, November 11, 2016

Before a single vote was cast, the election was fixed by GOP and Trump operatives. Starting in 2013 – just as the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act – a coterie of Trump operatives, under the direction of Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State, created a system to purge 1.1 million Americans of color from the voter rolls of GOP–controlled states. The system, called Crosscheck, is detailed in my Rolling Stone report, “The GOP’s Stealth War on Voters,” [8/24/2016].

Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 449,922

Trump victory margin in Arizona: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _270,824

Trump victory margin in North Carolina: _ _ _ _ _ _177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: _ _ _ _ _ _ _589,393


On Tuesday, we saw Crosscheck elect a Republican Senate and as President, Donald Trump. The electoral putsch was aided by nine other methods of attacking the right to vote of Black, Latino and Asian-American voters, methods detailed in my book and film, including “Caging,” “purging,” blocking legitimate registrations, and wrongly shunting millions to “provisional” ballots that will never be counted.

Trump signaled the use of “Crosscheck” when he claimed the election is “rigged” because “people are voting many, many times.” His operative Kobach [DOR: Kris Kobach, Secretary of State for Kansas, ex-Kansas GOP Chair and counsel with the Immigration Law Reform Institute. He is largely responsible for voter disenfranchisement in multiple states.], who also advised Trump on building a wall on the southern border, devised a list of 7.2 million “potential” double voters—1.1 million of which were removed from the voter rolls by Tuesday. The list is loaded overwhelmingly with voters of color and the poor. Here's a sample of the list

Those accused of criminal double voting include, for example, Donald Alexander Webster Jr. of Ohio who is accused of voting a second time in Virginia as Donald EUGENE Webster SR.

No, not everyone on the list loses their vote. But this was not the only racially poisonous tactic that accounted for this purloined victory by Trump and GOP candidates. For example, in the swing state of North Carolina, it was reported that 6,700 Black folk lost their registrations because their registrations had been challenged by a group called Voter Integrity Project (VIP). VIP sent letters to households in Black communities “do not forward.” If the voter had moved within the same building, or somehow did not get their mail (e.g. if their name was not on a mail box), they were challenged as “ghost” voters. GOP voting officials happily complied with VIP with instant cancellation of registrations.

The 6,700 identified in two counties were returned to the rolls through a lawsuit. However, there was not one mention in the press that VIP was also behind Crosscheck in North Carolina; nor that its leader, Col. Jay Delancy, whom I’ve tracked for years has previously used this vote thievery, known as “caging,” for years. Doubtless the caging game was wider and deeper than reported. And by the way, caging, as my Rolling Stone co-author, attorney Robert F. Kennedy Jr., tells me, is “a felony, it’s illegal, and punishable by high fines and even jail time.”

There is still much investigation to do. For example, there are millions of “provisional” ballots, “spoiled” (invalidated) ballots and ballots rejected from the approximately 30 million mailed in. Unlike reporting in Britain, US media does not report the ballots that are rejected and tossed out—because, after all, as Joe Biden says, “Our elections are the envy of the world.”

Only in Kazakhstan, Joe.

While there is a great deal of work to do, much documentation still to analyze, we’ll have to pry it from partisan voting chiefs who stamp the scrub lists, Crosscheck lists and ballot records, “confidential.” But, the evidence already in our hands makes me sadly confident in saying, Jim Crow, not the voters, elected Mr. Trump.

What about those exit polls?

Exit polls are the standard by which the US State Department measures the honesty of foreign elections. Exit polling is, historically, deadly accurate. The bane of pre-election polling is that pollsters must adjust for the likelihood of a person voting. Exit polls solve the problem.

But three times in US history, pollsters have had to publicly flagellate themselves for their “errors.” In 2000, exit polls gave Al Gore the win in Florida; in 2004, exit polls gave Kerry the win in Ohio, and now, in swing states, exit polls gave the presidency to Hillary Clinton.

So how could these multi-million-dollar PhD-directed statisticians with decades of experience get exit polls so wrong? Answer: they didn’t. The polls in Florida in 2000 were accurate. That’s because exit pollsters can only ask, “How did you vote?” What they don’t ask, and can’t, is, “Was your vote counted.”

In 2000, in Florida, GOP Secretary of State Katherine Harris officially rejected 181,173 ballots, as “spoiled” because their chads were hung and other nonsense excuses. Those ballots overwhelmingly were marked for Al Gore. The exit polls included those 181,173 people who thought they had voted – but their vote didn’t count. In other words, the exit polls accurately reflected whom the voters chose, not what Katherine Harris chose.

In 2004, a similar number of votes were invalidated (including an enormous pile of “provisional” ballots) by Ohio’s GOP Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell. Again, the polls reflected that Kerry was the choice of 51% of the voters. But the exit polls were “wrong” because they didn’t reflect the ballots invalidated by Blackwell.

Notably, two weeks after the 2004 US election, the US State Department refused the recognize the Ukraine election results because the official polls contradicted the exit polls.

And here we go again. 2016: Hillary wins among those queried as they exit the polling station—yet Trump is declared winner in GOP-controlled swings states. And, once again, the expert pollsters are forced to apologize—when they should be screaming, “Fraud! Here’s the evidence the vote was fixed!”

Now there’s a new trope to explain away the exit polls that gave Clinton the win. Supposedly, Trump voters were ashamed to say they voted for Trump. Really? ON WHAT PLANET? For Democracy Now! and Rolling Stone I was out in several swing states. In Ohio, yes, a Black voter may have been reluctant to state support for Trump. But a white voter in the exurbs of Dayton, where the Trump signs grew on lawns like weeds, and the pews of the evangelical mega churches were slathered with Trump and GOP brochures, risked getting spat on if they even whispered, “Hillary.”

This country is violently divided, but in the end, there simply aren’t enough white guys to elect Trump nor a Republican Senate. The only way they could win was to eliminate the votes of non-white guys—and they did so by tossing Black provisional ballots into the dumpster, ID laws that turn away students—the list goes on. It’s a web of complex obstacles to voting by citizens of color topped by that lying spider, Crosscheck.


http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/

citanon
04 Mar 17,, 14:06
DOR, please don't tell me you've gone from reliably partisan to full alt-left conspiracy crazy in the space of 4 months.

Maybe it's time to step away from politics for a week.

kato
04 Mar 17,, 19:06
The US needs a proper, fully independent voter registration process realistically. Every time I read about it, no matter from which political side, it's rather facepalm-worthy as it is.

DOR
05 Mar 17,, 11:57
DOR, please don't tell me you've gone from reliably partisan to full alt-left conspiracy crazy in the space of 4 months.

Maybe it's time to step away from politics for a week.

What part of

There’s a lot that needs verifying, and a lot that might be considered distracting.

But, if even 1/10th is true, American democracy is in deep, deep trouble.
wasn't clear?

tbm3fan
05 Mar 17,, 19:38
The US needs a proper, fully independent voter registration process realistically. Every time I read about it, no matter from which political side, it's rather facepalm-worthy as it is.

Of course but it has been so endemic in many states, since the Civil War, to disenfranchise voters. Your logic is right on except voter registration is a subject that goes right off the rails once it is brought up like so many other things.

Dazed
05 Mar 17,, 23:07
DOR

Come to California, the State of California Constitution allows all the political parties to hold primaries and elect a candidate for say US Senate, but come the actual general election you could only vote for a Democrat and a Democrat. Yes even the second biggest party and all the other political couldn't qualify for the ballot in a national election. Sounds like legalized voter repression to me. What the Republican try to do sucks but Democrats do same.. Both parties same shit different flavor.

Instead of the juvenile Republican do this and Democrats do that and the emotional over reaction to things that haven't happen. Behavior that would get you fired from a job private or public. The Democrats should look at the NC Governor Roy Cooper. http://www.npr.org/2016/12/22/506625845/n-c-governor-elect-roy-cooper-outlines-plan-to-repeal-bathroom-law

COOPER: No, look; I'm going to fight them toe-to-toe on issues we disagree with, that if there are areas where we can work together and we can find agreement, I will. And I think that's the kind of leadership that people want our elected officials to show.

SHAPIRO: Over the last year, North Carolina has gained a national reputation as a place of political mud wrestling and chaos. Is that a reputation that you think you can turn around?

That is leadership. If you work in the private and

COOPER: Sure we can. We have an incredible foundation. We have some of the best universities in the country. We have incredible tourism.

SHAPIRO: Sounds like you're saying just ignore the politics.

COOPER: Yeah, you have to because we're a great state. There are good things going on. When people move here, they don't want to leave. What we have to do is fix the politics. And I'm ready to do that.

The Governor is a leader.

zraver
05 Mar 17,, 23:41
I saw this movie last night, and had a chat with the man himself, Greg Palast.
The Best Democracy Money Can Buy:
A Tale of Billionaires & Ballot Bandits
There’s a lot that needs verifying, and a lot that might be considered distracting.

But, if even 1/10th is true, American democracy is in deep, deep trouble.

Not the GOPer-Dems can’t get along kind of trouble.
Not the Russian interference in elections kind of trouble.
Not the Orange-Baboon-in-the-White-House kind of trouble.

Real trouble.

The Election was Stolen – Here’s How…
by Greg Palast, November 11, 2016

Before a single vote was cast, the election was fixed by GOP and Trump operatives. Starting in 2013 – just as the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act – a coterie of Trump operatives, under the direction of Kris Kobach, Kansas Secretary of State, created a system to purge 1.1 million Americans of color from the voter rolls of GOP–controlled states. The system, called Crosscheck, is detailed in my Rolling Stone report, “The GOP’s Stealth War on Voters,” [8/24/2016].

Crosscheck in action:
Trump victory margin in Michigan: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _13,107
Michigan Crosscheck purge list: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ 449,922

Trump victory margin in Arizona: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _85,257
Arizona Crosscheck purge list: _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _270,824

Trump victory margin in North Carolina: _ _ _ _ _ _177,008
North Carolina Crosscheck purge list: _ _ _ _ _ _ _589,393


On Tuesday, we saw Crosscheck elect a Republican Senate and as President, Donald Trump. The electoral putsch was aided by nine other methods of attacking the right to vote of Black, Latino and Asian-American voters, methods detailed in my book and film, including “Caging,” “purging,” blocking legitimate registrations, and wrongly shunting millions to “provisional” ballots that will never be counted.

Trump signaled the use of “Crosscheck” when he claimed the election is “rigged” because “people are voting many, many times.” His operative Kobach [DOR: Kris Kobach, Secretary of State for Kansas, ex-Kansas GOP Chair and counsel with the Immigration Law Reform Institute. He is largely responsible for voter disenfranchisement in multiple states.], who also advised Trump on building a wall on the southern border, devised a list of 7.2 million “potential” double voters—1.1 million of which were removed from the voter rolls by Tuesday. The list is loaded overwhelmingly with voters of color and the poor. Here's a sample of the list

Those accused of criminal double voting include, for example, Donald Alexander Webster Jr. of Ohio who is accused of voting a second time in Virginia as Donald EUGENE Webster SR.

No, not everyone on the list loses their vote. But this was not the only racially poisonous tactic that accounted for this purloined victory by Trump and GOP candidates. For example, in the swing state of North Carolina, it was reported that 6,700 Black folk lost their registrations because their registrations had been challenged by a group called Voter Integrity Project (VIP). VIP sent letters to households in Black communities “do not forward.” If the voter had moved within the same building, or somehow did not get their mail (e.g. if their name was not on a mail box), they were challenged as “ghost” voters. GOP voting officials happily complied with VIP with instant cancellation of registrations.

The 6,700 identified in two counties were returned to the rolls through a lawsuit. However, there was not one mention in the press that VIP was also behind Crosscheck in North Carolina; nor that its leader, Col. Jay Delancy, whom I’ve tracked for years has previously used this vote thievery, known as “caging,” for years. Doubtless the caging game was wider and deeper than reported. And by the way, caging, as my Rolling Stone co-author, attorney Robert F. Kennedy Jr., tells me, is “a felony, it’s illegal, and punishable by high fines and even jail time.”

There is still much investigation to do. For example, there are millions of “provisional” ballots, “spoiled” (invalidated) ballots and ballots rejected from the approximately 30 million mailed in. Unlike reporting in Britain, US media does not report the ballots that are rejected and tossed out—because, after all, as Joe Biden says, “Our elections are the envy of the world.”

Only in Kazakhstan, Joe.


All easily solved by requiring photo ID when voting.


While there is a great deal of work to do, much documentation still to analyze, we’ll have to pry it from partisan voting chiefs who stamp the scrub lists, Crosscheck lists and ballot records, “confidential.” But, the evidence already in our hands makes me sadly confident in saying, Jim Crow, not the voters, elected Mr. Trump.

What about those exit polls?

I've been voting for decades, and never been polled upon exit.


Exit polls are the standard by which the US State Department measures the honesty of foreign elections. Exit polling is, historically, deadly accurate. The bane of pre-election polling is that pollsters must adjust for the likelihood of a person voting. Exit polls solve the problem.

Exit polls can only capture a snap shot of where they are, not where they are not.


But three times in US history, pollsters have had to publicly flagellate themselves for their “errors.” In 2000, exit polls gave Al Gore the win in Florida; in 2004, exit polls gave Kerry the win in Ohio, and now, in swing states, exit polls gave the presidency to Hillary Clinton.

So how could these multi-million-dollar PhD-directed statisticians with decades of experience get exit polls so wrong? Answer: they didn’t. The polls in Florida in 2000 were accurate. That’s because exit pollsters can only ask, “How did you vote?” What they don’t ask, and can’t, is, “Was your vote counted.”

In 2000, in Florida, GOP Secretary of State Katherine Harris officially rejected 181,173 ballots, as “spoiled” because their chads were hung and other nonsense excuses. Those ballots overwhelmingly were marked for Al Gore. The exit polls included those 181,173 people who thought they had voted – but their vote didn’t count. In other words, the exit polls accurately reflected whom the voters chose, not what Katherine Harris chose.

Bush won every single recount... The exist polls were wrong.


In 2004, a similar number of votes were invalidated (including an enormous pile of “provisional” ballots) by Ohio’s GOP Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell. Again, the polls reflected that Kerry was the choice of 51% of the voters. But the exit polls were “wrong” because they didn’t reflect the ballots invalidated by Blackwell.

Again, exist polls only represent a snap shot of where and when they are, not where they are not. Want an exit poll to favor a Dem, poll urban precincts. Want to favor a GOP candidate, hit the rural areas.


Notably, two weeks after the 2004 US election, the US State Department refused the recognize the Ukraine election results because the official polls contradicted the exit polls.

How robst was the exit polling operation in the Ukraine vs in the US?


And here we go again. 2016: Hillary wins among those queried as they exit the polling station—yet Trump is declared winner in GOP-controlled swings states. And, once again, the expert pollsters are forced to apologize—when they should be screaming, “Fraud! Here’s the evidence the vote was fixed!”

Some precincts in Detroit turned in more votes for Clinton than they had registered voters.


Now there’s a new trope to explain away the exit polls that gave Clinton the win. Supposedly, Trump voters were ashamed to say they voted for Trump. Really? ON WHAT PLANET? For Democracy Now! and Rolling Stone I was out in several swing states. In Ohio, yes, a Black voter may have been reluctant to state support for Trump. But a white voter in the exurbs of Dayton, where the Trump signs grew on lawns like weeds, and the pews of the evangelical mega churches were slathered with Trump and GOP brochures, risked getting spat on if they even whispered, “Hillary.”

This country is violently divided, but in the end, there simply aren’t enough white guys to elect Trump nor a Republican Senate. The only way they could win was to eliminate the votes of non-white guys—and they did so by tossing Black provisional ballots into the dumpster, ID laws that turn away students—the list goes on. It’s a web of complex obstacles to voting by citizens of color topped by that lying spider, Crosscheck.


http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/

Not enough white guys... White make up 70% of the voting population. To win, even if they get 100% of every person of colors' vote Liberals need to win just over a 5th of the white vote. In this election, Trump out performed Romney among minorities, who have voted in smaller numbers in every election snce 2008 and crushed Hillary among white women. Those three facts explain his win. He did not steal the election. Though once again, requiring an in-person ID presented vote or request for absentee ballot would solve all those problems.... well except for the more votes than voters. Peple really do need to go to prison over that one. However, since in happens in Dem areas, I don't see any action forthcoming. The Des still live by Daly's advice, vote early, vote often.

Parihaka
05 Mar 17,, 23:56
So Trump was right?

tbm3fan
06 Mar 17,, 00:26
All easily solved by requiring photo ID when voting.



I've been voting for decades, and never been polled upon exit.



Exit polls can only capture a snap shot of where they are, not where they are not.



Bush won every single recount... The exist polls were wrong.



Again, exist polls only represent a snap shot of where and when they are, not where they are not. Want an exit poll to favor a Dem, poll urban precincts. Want to favor a GOP candidate, hit the rural areas.



How robst was the exit polling operation in the Ukraine vs in the US?



Some precincts in Detroit turned in more votes for Clinton than they had registered voters.



Not enough white guys... White make up 70% of the voting population. To win, even if they get 100% of every person of colors' vote Liberals need to win just over a 5th of the white vote. In this election, Trump out performed Romney among minorities, who have voted in smaller numbers in every election snce 2008 and crushed Hillary among white women. Those three facts explain his win. He did not steal the election. Though once again, requiring an in-person ID presented vote or request for absentee ballot would solve all those problems.... well except for the more votes than voters. Peple really do need to go to prison over that one. However, since in happens in Dem areas, I don't see any action forthcoming. The Des still live by Daly's advice, vote early, vote often.

Oh get real. How many registered voters turn out for elections? 100%...never. 60%...almost never. 55%...maybe. Apparently registered voters find it to be a big pain in the ass to get out to the polls to vote. If it is that big of a PIA then explain why anyone else would make it a goal to hit those polls. Explain why they would want to go out of their way to get an absentee ballot when even registered voters can't be bothered. Explain how tens of thousands, of these highly motivated voters according to you, decide to illegally vote. People being people, in this day and age, tend to find things that show a modicum of difficulty to be too difficult to bother with. If you can't click it and have Amazon deliver it then why bother.

DOR
06 Mar 17,, 12:25
Dazed,

I’ve been to California, the first time on September 15, 1957, at a hospital in Hollywood. My mom was there, too. I later lived in Los Angeles, San Diego, the Bay Area and a little sawmill town of 28 people (now about 50) called Little Valley, some 100 miles east of Redding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Valley,_California

As a Californian (4th gen), I voted in 11 presidential elections and another 10 mid-term elections. I even voted in the sham gubernatorial “election” after Gray Davis was reelected.

The fact that California law allows for open primaries is not something for which the Democratic Party should be blamed. Neither is the execution of those primary elections, which are not under party control but the responsibility of the California Secretary of State. Sure, the state has been dominated by the Democratic Party for a while, but that isn’t the same as the Democratic Party being responsible for how the primaries are conducted.

= = = = =

zraver,


Photo ID? Got it covered.
Require photo ID.
Require that photo ID be issued by DMV.
Close DMV offices (or restrict to a few hours a week) in “undesirable” neighborhoods.
Problem solved. (That’s an actual example from the film, as you would know if you had seen it.)

Exit polls?
Gee, if you, personally, have never been surveyed after voting then every exit poll ever carried out must be faulty. Why didn’t I think of that? How come Fox and CNN haven’t exposed this obvious fraud? What are you smoking?

Doktor
06 Mar 17,, 14:20
Dazed,

I’ve been to California, the first time on September 15, 1957, at a hospital in Hollywood. My mom was there, too. I later lived in Los Angeles, San Diego, the Bay Area and a little sawmill town of 28 people (now about 50) called Little Valley, some 100 miles east of Redding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Valley,_California

As a Californian (4th gen), I voted in 11 presidential elections and another 10 mid-term elections. I even voted in the sham gubernatorial “election” after Gray Davis was reelected.

The fact that California law allows for open primaries is not something for which the Democratic Party should be blamed. Neither is the execution of those primary elections, which are not under party control but the responsibility of the California Secretary of State. Sure, the state has been dominated by the Democratic Party for a while, but that isn’t the same as the Democratic Party being responsible for how the primaries are conducted.

= = = = =

zraver,


Photo ID? Got it covered.
Require photo ID.
Require that photo ID be issued by DMV.
Close DMV offices (or restrict to a few hours a week) in “undesirable” neighborhoods.
Problem solved. (That’s an actual example from the film, as you would know if you had seen it.)

Exit polls?
Gee, if you, personally, have never been surveyed after voting then every exit poll ever carried out must be faulty. Why didn’t I think of that? How come Fox and CNN haven’t exposed this obvious fraud? What are you smoking?

D,

Are you saying that people will lose their driving licenses in the not suitable hoods? Don't you guys get your driving licenses in school?

DOR
06 Mar 17,, 15:02
D,

Are you saying that people will lose their driving licenses in the not suitable hoods? Don't you guys get your driving licenses in school?

Who said anything about losing an existing driving license?
More, while I was fortunate enough to have Drivers Education (classroom) and Drivers Training (vehicles) in high school, not all school districts offer such luxuries. For example, cash-strapped school districts are quite likely to cut programs that are not part of the required core curriculum.

Albany Rifles
06 Mar 17,, 16:10
D,

Are you saying that people will lose their driving licenses in the not suitable hoods? Don't you guys get your driving licenses in school?

Also depends on the state. Here in VA drivers ed is offered in school but you still have to go to DMV for test and license application.

Many private schools do not offer it

antimony
06 Mar 17,, 17:06
The US needs a proper, fully independent voter registration process realistically. Every time I read about it, no matter from which political side, it's rather facepalm-worthy as it is.

The US needs a proper, independent, Election commission with proper authority to conduct elections, period. Voter registration should be uniform across the country and not something that local officials dream up to suppress the local vote.

Doktor
06 Mar 17,, 17:29
"Close DMV offices (or restrict to a few hours a week) in “undesirable” neighborhoods.
Problem solved. (That’s an actual example from the film, as you would know if you had seen it.)"

At the moment over 2/3 of the population of the US has a driving license. So, tell me, how is this "suppression" gonna happen?


And yeah, like few hours a week gonna stop someone from getting the driving license. Because it's for voting only and not for everyday. Right.

Doktor
06 Mar 17,, 17:31
The US needs a proper, independent, Election commission with proper authority to conduct elections, period. Voter registration should be uniform across the country and not something that local officials dream up to suppress the local vote.

Why are local officials anyhow more restrictive than the Feds officials? Who will be in charge for the local elections?

antimony
06 Mar 17,, 23:33
Why are local officials anyhow more restrictive than the Feds officials?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/growing-conflict-over-voting-rights-in-georgia-where-the-presidential-race-is-tightening/2016/10/24/2e9d2caa-84e6-11e6-a3ef-f35afb41797f_story.html?utm_term=.9c965e0ac38f
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/15/group-accuses-mike-pence-of-voter-suppression-after-state-police-raid-registration-program-in-indiana/?utm_term=.0410f342f6f3

Voter registration, voting hours, locations are left at the mercy of local officials and they can manipulate them to disenfranchise the voter groups they do not like



Who will be in charge for the local elections?

State officials can handle them but the rules and regulations have to be communicated well in advance and cannot change.

Also, why should we not have proactive voter registration, like they have back in India? That way, we ensure voter participation, which, of course, the Republicans loathe

zraver
07 Mar 17,, 03:32
Oh get real. How many registered voters turn out for elections? 100%...never. 60%...almost never. 55%...maybe.

Yet some precincts turn in more votes than voters...



Apparently registered voters find it to be a big pain in the ass to get out to the polls to vote.

We make registering to vote exceedingly easy, so even people who don't care are often registered. The people who do care turn out.



If it is that big of a PIA then explain why anyone else would make it a goal to hit those polls. Explain why they would want to go out of their way to get an absentee ballot when even registered voters can't be bothered. Explain how tens of thousands, of these highly motivated voters according to you, decide to illegally vote. People being people, in this day and age, tend to find things that show a modicum of difficulty to be too difficult to bother with. If you can't click it and have Amazon deliver it then why bother.

I don't have to explain, the evidence that some precincts turned in more voters than voters is what it is. The fact that people have gone to jail for absentee voter fraud is what it is.

DOR,

The whole, I can't get ID meme is more than a bit over done. How did you buy your beer, get the utilities turned on, cash your check, get a credit card or bank account, get into an R rated movie, register and drive your car, pay your property taxes, get a mortgage or rental agreement... There is not a single state that only permits drivers licesnes and no other ID to be used.

Antimony, per the Constitution, elections are state not federal controlled. You would need a constitutional amendment to change that.

chakos
07 Mar 17,, 05:06
Do as the Aussies do; compulsory voting.

Well it's compulsory to turn up and get your name signed off, you can then go straight home or draw a giant penis on the election ballot (the percentage that do so was so significant that the Australian Electoral Committee made a ruling that you can draw a penis on the ballot and as long as you fill it out correctly it would be accepted).

Jokes aside it means everybody gets a say, it also pushes policy to the middle as parties can just ignore their extreme wings because who else are they going to vote for as our system also relies on preferences to distill votes down to the ultimate winner.

Gun Grape
07 Mar 17,, 06:28
Yet some precincts turn in more votes than voters...




I don't have to explain, the evidence that some precincts turned in more voters than voters is what it is.

Or not

http://www.snopes.com/more-votes-than-voters-in-detroit/

Monash
07 Mar 17,, 08:38
Do as the Aussies do; compulsory voting.

Jokes aside it means everybody gets a say, it also pushes policy to the middle as parties can just ignore their extreme wings because who else are they going to vote for as our system also relies on preferences to distill votes down to the ultimate winner.

And good luck convincing Americans to accept compulsory voting.

DOR
07 Mar 17,, 10:06
"Close DMV offices (or restrict to a few hours a week) in “undesirable” neighborhoods.
Problem solved. (That’s an actual example from the film, as you would know if you had seen it.)"

At the moment over 2/3 of the population of the US has a driving license. So, tell me, how is this "suppression" gonna happen?


And yeah, like few hours a week gonna stop someone from getting the driving license. Because it's for voting only and not for everyday. Right.


First, it isn't an effort to stop 2/3rds of the people from voting; it's an effort to make it "too much trouble" for (up to) 1/3rd to vote. Second, if you're working on an hourly wage job that's a long bus ride away, and maybe involves a split shift, yeah, a few hours a week is A Big Deal.

Ever been poor, Doktor?
Life gets very real, very fast.

antimony
08 Mar 17,, 07:14
Antimony, per the Constitution, elections are state not federal controlled. You would need a constitutional amendment to change that.

I am quite aware of that. Just because it is currently enshrined in the constitution does not make it right. Quite honestly, the ability to participate in the American democracy is shamefully inadequate. Why should voters across the country have different requirements or eligibility to vote? Why is it not a duty of the state to ensure everyone has the proper voter identification and the ability to cast their votes.

In India, the Election Commission officials go out of their way, including setting up camps in the remotest and most inaccessible parts of the country to ensure that every adult is registered to vote and that every registered voter has a polling booth nearby. There are booths set up for single voters. The fact that we do not have the same level of commitment towards voter participation in this country is shameful.

Note that I am not against voter identification, in fact support it strongly (just like I am strongly for Universal background checks for gun ownership). Voter id, done the right way by an independent non partisan authority in a proactive and impartial manner, increases voter participation rather than curbing it.

antimony
08 Mar 17,, 07:15
And good luck convincing Americans to accept compulsory voting.

I can live with compulsory or at least proactive registration

DOR
08 Mar 17,, 09:05
Yet some precincts turn in more votes than voters...




We make registering to vote exceedingly easy, so even people who don't care are often registered. The people who do care turn out.




I don't have to explain, the evidence that some precincts turned in more voters than voters is what it is. The fact that people have gone to jail for absentee voter fraud is what it is.

DOR,

The whole, I can't get ID meme is more than a bit over done. How did you buy your beer, get the utilities turned on, cash your check, get a credit card or bank account, get into an R rated movie, register and drive your car, pay your property taxes, get a mortgage or rental agreement... There is not a single state that only permits drivers licesnes and no other ID to be used.

Antimony, per the Constitution, elections are state not federal controlled. You would need a constitutional amendment to change that.


zraver,

Remind me again how many voting fraud cases there were out of the last, oh say one billion votes cast? Never mind, I found it:
“A comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation finds 31 credible incidents out of one billion ballots cast”,
by Justin Levitt, Washington Post, August 6, 2014
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/?utm_term=.233c9ebe0dc7

So, it surprises you that huge number of American citizens are unbanked? That they have to pay cash and get their paychecks cashed at the store?
You might just want to get out a bit more…

Doktor
08 Mar 17,, 11:00
First, it isn't an effort to stop 2/3rds of the people from voting; it's an effort to make it "too much trouble" for (up to) 1/3rd to vote. Second, if you're working on an hourly wage job that's a long bus ride away, and maybe involves a split shift, yeah, a few hours a week is A Big Deal.

Ever been poor, Doktor?
Life gets very real, very fast.

I don't follow. 2/3 have riving license and 15-64 y/o comprise 60% of the population.

Let me see, you have to be, not in the 2/3 of the total population nor in the 95+% of the adults with a DL to be very poor, with split jobs, to not be able to vote.
A) How is this gonna change the outcome?
B) Can't this somehow be your own fault? I am pretty sure you guys have programs that help social mobility to go upwards.

zraver
09 Mar 17,, 05:07
I am quite aware of that. Just because it is currently enshrined in the constitution does not make it right. Quite honestly, the ability to participate in the American democracy is shamefully inadequate.

The way our tax system is structured I would say its too open. far too many voters are zero liability. They don;t have to pay for any programs put into place by the people they vote for. Voters should be liable for the votes they cast.Now if everyone had skin in the game, then universal registration would be a lot more palatable.

zraver
09 Mar 17,, 05:08
Or not

http://www.snopes.com/more-votes-than-voters-in-detroit/


Your Snopes article confirms what I said, more votes than voters.

zraver
09 Mar 17,, 05:14
zraver,

Remind me again how many voting fraud cases there were out of the last, oh say one billion votes cast? Never mind, I found it:
“A comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation finds 31 credible incidents out of one billion ballots cast”,
by Justin Levitt, Washington Post, August 6, 2014
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/?utm_term=.233c9ebe0dc7

So, it surprises you that huge number of American citizens are unbanked? That they have to pay cash and get their paychecks cashed at the store?
You might just want to get out a bit more…

Cases brought to trial does not equal the total of offenses. Not to mention your link didn't look at the way the absentee ballot, or multi-state voting is abused.

DOR
09 Mar 17,, 11:05
I don't follow. 2/3 have riving license and 15-64 y/o comprise 60% of the population.

Let me see, you have to be, not in the 2/3 of the total population nor in the 95+% of the adults with a DL to be very poor, with split jobs, to not be able to vote.
A) How is this gonna change the outcome?
B) Can't this somehow be your own fault? I am pretty sure you guys have programs that help social mobility to go upwards.

Doktor,

Do the math.

Based on the wild-assed guesses we’re both putting up, and using the non-institutionalized labor force over the age of 20 (cause there ain’t no upper limit on voting, even after the age of 64):

240 mn potential voters x 1/3rd with no license = 80 million.
5% of that is 4 million potential votes.

Now, imagine 100,000 of those voters are in Arizona, 115,000 in Florida, 15,000 in Michigan, 180,000 in North Carolina, and a smattering strung across other battleground states.

That’s how it matters, aside from the fact that any low-life scum who would actively work to disenfranchise American citizens from exercising their right to vote deserves to be drawn and quartered…

Final point: Why don’t “you guys” have “programs that help social mobility to go upwards”? Too cold-hearted?

= = = = =

zraver,

Let me know when you've read the book or seen the film at the start of this entire thread.
Then, and only then, will we have something useful to discuss.
Until then, you're just denying everything without a shred of evidence to back up your point.

Do the damn research.

Gun Grape
09 Mar 17,, 12:46
Your Snopes article confirms what I said, more votes than voters.

RIF
Guess you missed this.


The discrepancy did not involve Detroit's recording more votes than registered voters, but rather precinct poll workers miscounting the number of people who voted.

Doktor
09 Mar 17,, 14:04
RIF
Guess you missed this.

It actually says that the machines counted different number from people. Why is that and is it a fraud, remains to be seen. 1 vote more or less is a signal of a fraud.

Doktor
09 Mar 17,, 14:05
Doktor,

Do the math.

Based on the wild-assed guesses we’re both putting up, and using the non-institutionalized labor force over the age of 20 (cause there ain’t no upper limit on voting, even after the age of 64):

240 mn potential voters x 1/3rd with no license = 80 million.
5% of that is 4 million potential votes.

Now, imagine 100,000 of those voters are in Arizona, 115,000 in Florida, 15,000 in Michigan, 180,000 in North Carolina, and a smattering strung across other battleground states.

That’s how it matters, aside from the fact that any low-life scum who would actively work to disenfranchise American citizens from exercising their right to vote deserves to be drawn and quartered…

Final point: Why don’t “you guys” have “programs that help social mobility to go upwards”? Too cold-hearted?

= = = = =

zraver,

Let me know when you've read the book or seen the film at the start of this entire thread.
Then, and only then, will we have something useful to discuss.
Until then, you're just denying everything without a shred of evidence to back up your point.

Do the damn research.

DOR,

You have over 200mn licenses. I said 2/3 of the population.

I also said "I am pretty sure you guys have programs that help social mobility to go upwards."

kato
09 Mar 17,, 18:06
In India, the Election Commission officials go out of their way, including setting up camps in the remotest and most inaccessible parts of the country to ensure that every adult is registered to vote and that every registered voter has a polling booth nearby. There are booths set up for single voters.
In Germany the 2013 federal election saw a voting booth that remained completely empty with zero votes cast locally. It serves a small island off the coast with 9 eligible voters (used to be more, around 12-13 - there's a couple more booths set up in the wider area, each for similar populations of under 20 people); of those 9 eligible voters 4 were travelling on election day and thus like the 4 others who voted chose to cast their vote by mail.

tbm3fan
09 Mar 17,, 19:30
I don't have to explain, the evidence that some precincts turned in more voters than voters is what it is. The fact that people have gone to jail for absentee voter fraud is what it is.




Mr. Spicer that is the classic punt. Oh, sorry it isn't Mr. Spicer answering as to how a couple of hundred fake votes, spread around, will ever turn an election. Assuming there even is a couple of hundred proven votes in one election cycle.

tbm3fan
09 Mar 17,, 19:33
Why is it not a duty of the state to ensure everyone has the proper voter identification and the ability to cast their votes.



That is not very Republican of you.

antimony
09 Mar 17,, 19:37
In Germany the 2013 federal election saw a voting booth that remained completely empty with zero votes cast locally. It serves a small island off the coast with 9 eligible voters (used to be more, around 12-13 - there's a couple more booths set up in the wider area, each for similar populations of under 20 people); of those 9 eligible voters 4 were travelling on election day and thus like the 4 others who voted chose to cast their vote by mail.

It is the responsibility of the Election Commission to make the polling infrastructure available. It is the privilege of the people to exercise their polling right. The people are the masters of the governing class, not the other way around

Take a look at this:
https://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/in-gujarats-gir-forest-indias-most-privileged-voter/


In the far-flung corners of India, which has a voting population of more than 700 million, there are a few constituencies with a mere handful of voters. But only Banej has just one.

Mahant Bharatdas, the only resident of Banej, Gujarat, casting his vote in this April 30, 2009, file photo.Courtesy of Haresh PandyaMahant Bharatdas, the only resident of Banej, Gujarat, casting his vote in this April 30, 2009, file photo.
Whenever there are elections in Gujarat, the district government sets up a special polling booth, with a full staff of five, just for Mr. Bharatdas.

This is dedication to democracy, and this is not what we have in the USA.

kato
09 Mar 17,, 20:06
It is the responsibility of the Election Commission to make the polling infrastructure available. It is the privilege of the people to exercise their polling right. The people are the masters of the governing class, not the other way around

Take a look at this:
https://india.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/in-gujarats-gir-forest-indias-most-privileged-voter/

This part:
Though in the normal course polling hours extend through the day, the election team at Banej would be able to wind up and return the minute Darshandas has pressed the EVM button and his finger is marked with the indelible ink, said Pandey.
wouldn't do over here. Even if 100% of eligible voters for a booth had already cast their vote (which quite often happens around noon in the above small constituencies) the booth would still remain open and staffed until the official closure of elections, i.e. throughout the day. During that last election the booth was set up and staffed from 8 am to 6 pm waiting whether the single person who hadn't cast their vote by mail already would opt to vote.

Technical reason also being that someone with a transferrable voting registration - valid for a single vote at any one voting booth for that election - and ID in hand could always swim ashore at that island at 5:59 pm to cast their vote just in time before closure.

Doktor
09 Mar 17,, 22:31
Mr. Spicer that is the classic punt. Oh, sorry it isn't Mr. Spicer answering as to how a couple of hundred fake votes, spread around, will ever turn an election. Assuming there even is a couple of hundred proven votes in one election cycle.

One ballot is a fair indication that the process is rigged. Just ask us the Balkan guys :wink: Nothing to see here attitude, does not solve the problem.

For the record, I am not saying it is not just a human error, or that you guys somehow dropped several ladders and reached our lows. I am saying that if such occurrences repeat, there should be a systematic overhaul not to erode the trust in the process.

zraver
10 Mar 17,, 02:14
RIF
Guess you missed this.

oops, the word registered snuck in there on my OP. The rest of the time I clearly was referring to votes counted vs votes cast. More votes than voters. My apologies for the confusion.

zraver
10 Mar 17,, 02:18
zraver,

Let me know when you've read the book or seen the film at the start of this entire thread.
Then, and only then, will we have something useful to discuss.
Until then, you're just denying everything without a shred of evidence to back up your point.

Do the damn research.

I do my research thank you very much.

antimony
10 Mar 17,, 04:17
This part:
Though in the normal course polling hours extend through the day, the election team at Banej would be able to wind up and return the minute Darshandas has pressed the EVM button and his finger is marked with the indelible ink, said Pandey.
wouldn't do over here. Even if 100% of eligible voters for a booth had already cast their vote (which quite often happens around noon in the above small constituencies) the booth would still remain open and staffed until the official closure of elections, i.e. throughout the day. During that last election the booth was set up and staffed from 8 am to 6 pm waiting whether the single person who hadn't cast their vote by mail already would opt to vote.

Technical reason also being that someone with a transferrable voting registration - valid for a single vote at any one voting booth for that election - and ID in hand could always swim ashore at that island at 5:59 pm to cast their vote just in time before closure.

The technicalities can be worked, out, but the point is that the State (in this case the Election Commission) ensure that every citizen eligible to vote is actually registered and has the polling infrastructure at hand to vote. Voters have a dab of indelible ink applied on their finger, so that they do not get to vote again. Some people have found ways to remove that, but by and large that works.

In the American context, the registration process can be as simple as running a query on citizens above 18 in the DL/ State ID/ SSN DB (as is done to select juries), auto register them and send them a ballot. The most accurate results would be on the SSN db (which in turn is cross referenced with the Citizenship DB, so that non citizen SSN holders are weeded out), cross reference with DL/ state ID DB and create a voter list out of that. Technically, not very hard to do.

DOR
10 Mar 17,, 16:24
DOR,

You have over 200mn licenses. I said 2/3 of the population.

I also said "I am pretty sure you guys have programs that help social mobility to go upwards."

My bad.
5-1/4 million, not 4 million.
The rest holds true.

DOR
20 Mar 17,, 16:19
Gorsuch’s ties to Hans von Spakovksy suggest a hostility to voting rights.

By Ari Berman, The Nation: https://www.thenation.com/article/in-emails-neil-gorsuch-praised-a-leading-republican-activist-behind-voter-suppression-efforts/

Few people in the Republican Party have done more to limit voting rights than Hans von Spakovsky. He’s been instrumental in spreading the myth of widespread voter fraud and backing new restrictions to make it harder to vote.

But it appears that von Spakovsky had an admirer in Neil Gorsuch, Donald Trump’s nominee for the Supreme Court, according to e-mails released to the Senate Judiciary Committee covering Gorsuch’s time working in the George W. Bush Administration.

When President Bush nominated von Spakovksy to the Federal Election Commission in late 2005, Gorsuch wrote, “Good for Hans!”

In another e-mail, when von Spakovksy said he was participating in a “Ballot Access and Voter Integrity Conference” at the Justice Department, Gorsuch wrote, “Sounds interesting. Glad to see you’re doing this. I may try to attend some of it.” Though the Justice Department was supposed to investigate both voting discrimination and voter fraud, the latter cause took priority and eventually led to Republican US Attorneys’ being wrongly fired from their jobs for refusing to prosecute fraud cases.

At very least, the e-mails suggest Gorsuch was friendly with von Spakovksy. But it’s far more disturbing if Gorsuch shares Von Spakovsky’s views on voting rights. Given that we know almost nothing about Gorsuch’s views on the subject, this is something the Senate needs to press him on during confirmation hearings next week.

Though the e-mails sound mundane, they’re much more important when you consider what was happening at the Justice Department during the time Gorsuch overlapped with von Spakovksy. In 2005–06 Gorsuch was principal deputy to the associate attorney general and von Spakosvky was special counsel to Brad Schlozman, the assistant attorney general for civil rights, who said he wanted to “gerrymander all of those crazy libs right out of the [voting] section.” It was a time when longtime civil-rights lawyers were pushed out of the Justice Department and the likes of Schlozman and von Spakovsky reversed the Civil Rights Division’s traditional role of safeguarding voting rights. When von Spakovsky was nominated to the FEC, six former lawyers in the voting section called him “the point person for undermining the Civil Rights Division’s mandate to protect voting rights.”

In particular, von Spakovsky manipulated the process to approve Georgia’s strict voter-ID law in 2005, which was among the first of its kind. (I tell this story in great detail in my book Give Us the Ballot.) Von Spakovsky had been an advocate of such laws nationally and in Georgia specifically, where he was from, since the 1990s. “Requiring official picture identification such as a driver’s license with a current address would immediately cut down on a large amount of fraud,” he wrote in The Wall Street Journal in 1995. Two years later, he recommended, “Georgia should require all potential voters to present reliable photo identifications at their polling locations to help prevent impostors from voting.”

Georgia’s voter-ID law was submitted to the Justice Department in 2005 under Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, which required states like Georgia with a long history of voting discrimination to approve their voting changes with the federal government. The sponsor of the law, Republican Representative Sue Burmeister, told department lawyers, “If there are fewer black voters because of the bill, it will only be because there is less opportunity for fraud. She said when black voters in her precinct are not paid to vote, they do not go to the polls.”

Her racially inflammatory assertions set off alarm bells among the team reviewing the submission, indicating that the law may have been enacted with a discriminatory purpose. Department lawyers feared the bill would disenfranchise thousands of voters.

Atlanta’s Mayor, Shirley Franklin, told the story of her 84-year-old mother, who had recently moved from Philadelphia to Atlanta and could not obtain a new photo ID for voting. Her expired Pennsylvania driver’s license was rejected as sufficient documentation to obtain a Georgia ID card, and she was told to produce a copy of her birth certificate. But Franklin’s mother had been born at home in North Carolina and, like many elderly African Americans who grew up during Jim Crow, never had a birth certificate. After voting for 40 years, she would be disenfranchised by the new law.

Citing the high number of voters without ID, the disparate rates of ID possession among blacks and whites, the number of DMV offices that did not issue IDs, the cost of the ID and the underlying documents needed to obtain an ID (ranging from $20 for an ID card to $210 for naturalization papers), four of five members of the Georgia review team urged that the law be rejected under Section 5. “While no single piece of data confirms that blacks will [be] disparately impacted compared to whites, the totality of evidence points to that conclusion,” they wrote in a 51-page analysis.

Yet von Spakovsky placed a conservative lawyer on the review team, Joshua Rogers, who argued that the law should be approved. Von Spakovsky began secretly e-mailing Rogers copies of his articles, and arguments and analysis in favor of the Georgia ID law. He told him to password protect his computer so that no other attorneys on the team could see their correspondence. “They chose to put him on the case because of his political leanings and personal connection with von Spakovsky,” said Heather Moss, a member of the review team. Rogers’s dissenting memo, which was drafted with von Spakovsky’s input, became the basis for the Justice Department’s preclearance of the law.

A year later, when von Spakovsky was nominated to the FEC, it was revealed that he published a law article praising voter-ID laws under the pseudonym “Publius” just a week after Georgia submitted its law for review. The article in the Texas Review of Law & Politics, a conservative legal journal, was titled “Securing the Integrity of American Elections: The Need for Change” and its author was identified as “an attorney who specializes in election issues.” Publius, aka von Spakovsky, wrote: “It is unfortunately true that in the great democracy in which we live, voter fraud has had a long and studied role in our elections,” the article began. It continued: “putting security measures in place— such as requiring identification when voting— does not disenfranchise voters and there is no evidence to suggest otherwise.”

DOJ ethics guidelines clearly stated that von Spakovsky, given his longstanding advocacy for voter-ID laws and the strong viewpoints in his then-anonymous article, should have recused himself from consideration of Georgia’s law. Indeed, his ethical lapses and deceptive support for new voting restrictions were a major reason Senate Democrats blocked his nomination to the FEC and President Bush was forced to give him a recess appointment. (Then-Senator Barack Obama put a hold on von Spakovsky’s nomination and he withdrew in 2008, joining the Heritage Foundation, which has championed Gorsuch’s nomination.)

But that’s not all. In addition to the FEC, Von Spakovsky was also appointed to the advisory board of the Election Assistance Commission, created by the Help America Vote Act to analyze the country’s election problems. The commission hired two well- respected experts, Republican Job Serebrov and Democrat Tova Wang, to produce a comprehensive study on voter fraud. “There is widespread but not unanimous agreement that there is little polling place fraud, or at least much less than is claimed, including voter impersonation, ‘dead’ voters, non-citizen voting and felon voters,” a draft of the report stated. After von Spakovsky complained to the commission’s GOP leadership, the wording in the final report was changed to, “There is a great deal of debate on the pervasiveness of fraud.”

More recently, von Spakovsky has argued against that the Voting Rights Act was “constitutionally dubious at the time of its enactment” and praised Trump’s promised investigation into voter fraud, which has been widely panned by Democrats and Republicans. “The real problem in our election system is that we don’t really know to what extent President Trump’s claim is true because we have an election system that is based on the honor system,” he wrote with John Fund after Trump said with no evidence that 3 million to 5 million people voted illegally.

Given that von Spakovsky hailed Gorsuch as “the perfect pick for Trump,” it’s safe to assume he believes that the Supreme Court nominee shares his views. The Senate needs to aggressively question Gorsuch to see if that’s the case.

Gorsuch has already cited Justice Antonin Scalia as a role model, who said the Voting Rights Act had led to a “perpetuation of racial entitlement.” Gorsuch, if confirmed, could be the deciding vote on whether to weaken the remaining sections of the VRA and whether to uphold discriminatory voter-ID laws and redistricting plans from states like North Carolina and Texas. In many ways, the fate of voting rights in the United States hangs on this nomination.

gunnut
08 Apr 17,, 00:21
The US needs a proper, fully independent voter registration process realistically. Every time I read about it, no matter from which political side, it's rather facepalm-worthy as it is.

You mean getting a government issued photo ID in order to register and then pick up a ballot to vote? Why....that's racist!!!!

Edit: Remember who is always against voter ID law every time it's brought up.

http://abc7.com/politics/san-pedro-man-finds-dozens-of-official-voting-ballots-outside-home/1588822/

Hmmmm....

Monash
08 Apr 17,, 04:59
Rampant gerrymandering is probably a more serious threat to the US electoral system than electoral fraud or vote miscount.

gunnut
08 Apr 17,, 05:24
Rampant gerrymandering is probably a more serious threat to the US electoral system than electoral fraud or vote miscount.

I'm for getting rid of it. Guess who's against it?

Monash
08 Apr 17,, 07:22
I'm for getting rid of it. Guess who's against it?

Yes , I was going to say that myself.

Albany Rifles
10 Apr 17,, 19:44
Depends on the state...

DOR
11 Apr 17,, 11:31
Rampant gerrymandering is probably a more serious threat to the US electoral system than electoral fraud or vote miscount.

Maybe you missed this one:


http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/

bfng3569
11 Apr 17,, 19:07
Maybe you missed this one:


http://www.gregpalast.com/election-stolen-heres/

Those accused of criminal double voting include, for example, Donald Alexander Webster Jr. of Ohio who is accused of voting a second time in Virginia as Donald EUGENE Webster SR.

Sounds like an excellent reason to tighten up voter registration process's and to require a valid state issued I.D. to help protect everyone's rights.

DOR
12 Apr 17,, 12:33
Those accused of criminal double voting include, for example, Donald Alexander Webster Jr. of Ohio who is accused of voting a second time in Virginia as Donald EUGENE Webster SR.

Sounds like an excellent reason to tighten up voter registration process's and to require a valid state issued I.D. to help protect everyone's rights.


If you actually look at the reason Mr. Webster was falsely accused of voter fraud, it was wholly because of politically motivated -- that's voter suppression, to anyone paying attention -- efforts to restrict legitimate voters from exercising their constitutional rights. It was the tightening of voter restrictions that led to this unAmerican disenfranchisement, and it is specifically targeted at minorities.

bfng3569
12 Apr 17,, 17:47
If you actually look at the reason Mr. Webster was falsely accused of voter fraud, it was wholly because of politically motivated -- that's voter suppression, to anyone paying attention -- efforts to restrict legitimate voters from exercising their constitutional rights. It was the tightening of voter restrictions that led to this unAmerican disenfranchisement, and it is specifically targeted at minorities.

I did look at it, and my response was a tad tongue in cheek.

but still pushes the argument that voter registration and voting needed to be streamlined and more uniform.

This country is violently divided, but in the end, there simply aren’t enough white guys to elect Trump nor a Republican Senate. The only way they could win was to eliminate the votes of non-white guys

but then again, comments like this in the article don't help it out at all.

DOR
13 Apr 17,, 09:58
I did look at it, and my response was a tad tongue in cheek.

but still pushes the argument that voter registration and voting needed to be streamlined and more uniform.

This country is violently divided, but in the end, there simply aren’t enough white guys to elect Trump nor a Republican Senate. The only way they could win was to eliminate the votes of non-white guys

but then again, comments like this in the article don't help it out at all.

Streamlined and more uniform?? Are you kidding?

How about,
fair voter registration -- no purging the voter lists.
equal access to the vote -- no shortened voting periods, broken machines or many hours of standing in line (if you ain't rich)
honest vote counting -- no "preliminary" ballots handed out to people in line and then not counted, and the same for absentee ballots.

That's just for starters, but it would go far, far further than mere "streamlined and more uniform."

DOR
15 Apr 17,, 16:50
Top U.S. Election Official: There Is No Voting Fraud ‘Epidemic’
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/top-u-s-election-official-there-no-voting-fraud-epidemic-n745846

My take:

Mr Masterson has been nominated to chair of the U.S. Election Assistance Commission, an independent, bipartisan agency, where he has served as a commissioner since 2014. Prior to that, he worked in the Ohio Secretary of State’s Office.

The Center for Public Integrity asked Masterson if voter suppression was a big issue and whether there was evidence of a major effort to make it harder to vote.
“It’s something election officials hear about all the time. I can tell you my experience in Ohio. When we dug into that. It was virtually non-existent,” Masterson said, later adding: “It is my opinion, in the vast majority of jurisdictions today in America, it is easier to vote today than it has ever been.”

Meanwhile, in the real world,
2004: Extensive problems were reported in Ohio with Diebold, Danaher Controls ELECTronic 1242 and ES&S iVotronic voting machines.
2008: The Ohio GOP’s efforts to disenfranchise some 200,000 registered voters was overturned by the Supreme Court. John Boehner – who recommended Matthew Masterson’s appointment to President Obama – asked President Bush to instruct the Justice Department to step in on the side of the GOP.
2012: Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted decided to shorten voting hours in urban – read: Democratic leaning – areas while lengthening those in suburban and rural (i.e., GOPer leaning) areas. Outcry ensues and he has to back-track … by eliminating weekend voting and cutting hours in all districts.

bfng3569
17 Apr 17,, 03:12
Streamlined and more uniform?? Are you kidding?

How about,
fair voter registration -- no purging the voter lists.
equal access to the vote -- no shortened voting periods, broken machines or many hours of standing in line (if you ain't rich)
honest vote counting -- no "preliminary" ballots handed out to people in line and then not counted, and the same for absentee ballots.

That's just for starters, but it would go far, far further than mere "streamlined and more uniform."

I'm sorry, but what about what you just listed there wouldn't be considered more 'uniformed'?

DOR
17 Apr 17,, 10:38
I'm sorry, but what about what you just listed there wouldn't be considered more 'uniformed'?

Yes, it would be more uniform.
But, the entire effort to make things more uniform these days is in the other direction: voter ID (as if fraud were a thing) and purge lists.

snapper
23 Apr 17,, 07:23
In my view the clearest evidence that American democracy is in trouble is that Trump, who any sane person would recognise as all mouth and show and a deeply flawed individual, was elected. The real 'post mortem' should not be on 'Hilary's campaign' but on what went wrong in the handling of the 2008 financial crisis that left so many - and not only in the US but in Europe too - feeling 'left out' and forgotten about; essentially losing faith in the system.

For me at least the answer is pretty obvious; when Governments and Central Banks lean over backwards to help rich (at least in the public view) financial institutions that find themselves threatened at a moment of crisis the man on the Clappham omnibus thinks "what the hell? I never voted for this! Who asked me?" How many billions were pumped into the banks? How does that help the person defaulting on their mortgage? What has it got to do with his/her wages or salary? Everyone got hurt but it appeared that no end of expense - their expense in some cases - was too small for the financial institutions that had in part precipitated the crash yet nothing for them directly except mortgage default and unemployment.

I recall the long debate I had with DOR and astralis on this whole creating money out of thin air (or "quantitative easing" as they put it in technical language to try to fool the idiots) but who did this benefit? Those losing their jobs or houses? Not at all - those in the markets (I did well on it). The problem was the institutions looked after themselves - "too big to fail" etc - and the average low skilled person got forgotten about.

In the UK this was focused by some on the migration of other Christian Europeans who in general were harder working than the native unemployed and low wage populace who were told "they are stealing your jobs and it's the EU's fault!". It wasn't entirely true or untrue of course but having seen the 'collusion' between the Government and financial institutions and having been shown some examples of EU idiocy and unaccountablity the lemmings opted for the cliff rather than to try to change the system. In the US I am afraid much the same happened; those who felt 'left out' and that the institutions were not acting on their behalf or even accountable to them became lemmings; "Let's shake it up by electing a man who was born a millionaire but is an erratic egotist" is publicly jumping off a cliff but for them who had lost their jobs and homes etc democracy was already in trouble from the direction of the institutions. Get well soon but next time get the financial stuff right.

astralis
23 Apr 17,, 08:19
snapper,


I recall the long debate I had with DOR and astralis on this whole creating money out of thin air (or "quantitative easing" as they put it in technical language to try to fool the idiots) but who did this benefit? Those losing their jobs or houses? Not at all - those in the markets (I did well on it). The problem was the institutions looked after themselves - "too big to fail" etc - and the average low skilled person got forgotten about.


not to re-hash the economic arguments we had earlier, but the irony of all this is that QE/monetary action was taken because 1.) after the initial stimulus, Republicans blocked additional fiscal action, and 2.) the whole principle of monetarism is essentially a 1960s conservative alternative to Keynesianism that was later adopted by Democrats in light of the Third Way. (we see something similar with the conservative origins of the theory behind the ACA.)

this actually connects well with the discussion with GVChamp on the American Political Scene thread. the Third Way has always been connected to a technocratic sort of elitism, where the underlining deal was that the left should turn a blind eye to wealth inequality as long as in doing so, the entire pie expanded in such a way that social priorities could be funded.

the Great Recession basically ruined this concept on both the economic AND political levels, which is why I agree with GVChamp to some extent that old-school Democrats now have rather more influence within the party than before. for that matter, this is not a phenomenon restricted to the left; the rise of Trumpism on the right also demonstrates that conservative laissez-faire ideology is getting a challenge (at least in theory, as Trump tends to revert to the conservative mean in actual practice).

snapper
23 Apr 17,, 08:30
astralis,

I am not seeking a re-run of the 'long economic debate' but what happened to those left out? Trump was their answer. It would have been wiser (in retrospect it always easy of course) to throw money out of nowhere into peoples accounts in the banks and let them keep their houses or start new businesses etc but not leave them behind from their point of view while bending over backward for the banks etc... My description is not intended as economical but rather sociological.

astralis
23 Apr 17,, 21:22
snapper,


I am not seeking a re-run of the 'long economic debate' but what happened to those left out? Trump was their answer. It would have been wiser (in retrospect it always easy of course) to throw money out of nowhere into peoples accounts in the banks and let them keep their houses or start new businesses etc but not leave them behind from their point of view while bending over backward for the banks etc... My description is not intended as economical but rather sociological.

of course, i agree that would have been the optimal route, both sociologically and economically. but, as you know there were significant political obstacles to that optimal route.

on another note, the (general) European economic response to the Great Recession has been remarkably poor, which combined with the ME refugee crisis is why the previously dominant European center-left has been absolutely devastated.

GVChamp
24 Apr 17,, 15:41
What's wrong with printing money out of thin air?
I disagree with Astralis and DOR about a lot of their politics, but generally agree with their economics. One of the extremely frustrating things of the last decade was seeing a lot of conservatives embracing hawkish monetary policy, up to and including return to gold standard. Time, I think, has proven those hard money stances wrong: Europe implemented a more hawkish monetary policy and hasn't recovered, while the US has fully recovered.

If anything, I would've said more QE. I think monetary policy is effective enough to get the job done. So I think government spending more money is largely unnecessary and damaging (you get Solyndra), but DOR and Asty are both going to be more worried about government shutdowns and want more fiscal stimulus.

I think the center right-wing politics of the last few decades has been largely fine. We're better off than we were back in the 70s and the 80s. About the only nation that has something to complain about is France because of their structural unemployment, but that's their own damn fault. Italy is saddled with problems, but that was the same as it was in the 70s...if anything, their problems is adopting the Euro and being stuck in the same zone as Germany, which might have hobbled the manufacturing hub they had in Northern Italy after Germany started reforming their labor markets and holding down wages.

Trump definitely shows their is something wrong with American politics, but it mostly shows that Americans themselves are deeply partisan and won't vote for the other Party. I think discussions about Gerry-Mandering and Term Limits are red herrings: politically active Americans are partisan and want partisan representatives.
A secondary problem is that Capitol Hill is increasingly structured into winner-take-all contests.
A tertiary problem is that authority has increasingly devolved to executive and judicial branches as a result.


The last problem are the particular voting blocs: The Religious Right seemed damn frightening for quite some time. They've kind of petered out, but you never know if the next voting bloc will implement more of their own crazy policies.

astralis
24 Apr 17,, 16:11
GVChamp,


I disagree with Astralis and DOR about a lot of their politics, but generally agree with their economics.

yeah, we're generally in the same camp, although I am of the belief that monetary policy is fine for your run of the mill recession, but was rather insufficient given the scale of the Great Recession. i don't think we'd be in anywhere close to the same place as we are now if we replaced the 2009 stimulus with moar QE.

it's true that Europe implemented a more hawkish monetary policy...but given of course the "split" state of the EU, by definition they also implemented far lesser fiscal policy (actually, outright austerity in most places).



I think the center right-wing politics of the last few decades has been largely fine.

don't understand how you connect "a lot of conservatives embracing hawkish monetary policy" with that. as i said, even flexible monetary policy would have been a very poor substitute for fiscal action in 2009-- a hawkish monetary policy and no fiscal action would have been an utter disaster.

as i wrote earlier, monetarism was supposed to be the conservative economic response to Keynes/the failure of neo-classical economics during the Great Depression. going back to square one in the midst of the most terrible economic crisis since the Great Depression doesn't seem to indicate "largely fine" to me.

in fact, back then conservatives were split between their perpetual call for lower taxes/less regulations as a response vs deficit reduction (which is an even worse response in the crisis context).

GVChamp
24 Apr 17,, 16:30
I mean the Thatcher/Reagan/neo-liberal policies implemented since the late 70s. When people are complaining about the long-run economic picture, they mean those policies.

snapper
24 Apr 17,, 21:52
What's wrong with printing money out of thin air?

They did not print it nvm; in essence it is neither right nor wrong of itself but when it comes to the distribution of this newly created money inequities appear.

DOR
01 Jul 17,, 13:04
Von Spakovsky riled Fairfax with voter fraud efforts; Trump just elevated him
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/von-spakovsky-riled-fairfax-with-voter-fraud-efforts-trump-just-elevated-him/2017/06/30/9241ab70-5dab-11e7-9fc6-c7ef4bc58d13_story.html?utm_term=.dc7a839fb759

https://thinkprogress.org/dem-elections-chiefs-letter-d0c3d527ea2b

Trump Picks Voter ID Advocate to Lead Vote-Fraud Commission
http://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-picks-voter-id-advocate-to-lead-vote-fraud-commission

On Thursday, the White House announced the appointment of Hans von Spakovsky to the commission. In 2008, von Spakovsky issued a report on voter fraud citing decades-old evidence.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/10/29/the-voter-fraud-myth

tbm3fan
01 Jul 17,, 17:30
Yep, not one expert on elections, just cheap political hacks with a personal agenda to shove down people's throats.

DOR
04 Jul 17,, 13:29
Published on Monday, July 03, 2017 by Common Dreams

Ahead of national convention in Denver, a look at destruction wrought by group that pairs right-wing lawmakers with corporate interests
By Michele Swenson

Describing an “illiberal” or “managed” democracy, political philosopher Sheldon Wolin and others draw a picture of a U.S. government acting as servant of dominant corporate money that subverts democracy, overwhelms representative government and sacrifices the common good, as the major political parties, too, are captive to corporate control. Excluded from exerting any influence are the people, where government takes legitimacy from “elections that they have learned to control,” and where highly concentrated media corporations determine what is “legitimate” news. Almost nonexistent voter fraud captures media’s attention, but not the huge disenfranchisement of voters prior to the 2016 elections.

The American Legislative Exchange Council, in thrall to large corporate interests, has set the stage for the systematic dismantling of democracy, beginning with voter suppression laws. Since the Supreme Court effectively gutted the 1965 Voting Rights Act (Shelby County vs. Holder) Jim Crow tactics have regained a hold. In 2016 Greg Palast cited at least “nine methods of attacking the right to vote of Black, Latino and Asian-American voters,” including “Caging, purging, blocking legitimate registrations, and wrongly shunting millions to ‘provisional’ ballots that will never be counted.”

Prior to 2016 elections, Operation Crosscheck voter lists compiled by Kansas Secretary of State and white supremacist Kris Kobach and reportedly distributed to 29 Republican state voting officials, led to the purge of over one million registered voters who had the same first and last names. Kobach now serves as vice chair of the so-called Trump “Voter Fraud Commission” that seeks lists of all voters from every state. It would be difficult to overstate the consequences of widespread voter disenfranchisement, which should not be normalized. “Elections have consequences,” assert political operatives. Conversely, “Illegitimate elections have illegitimate consequences.”

At the forefront of mobilization of anti-democratic activity for over four decades is the Koch-/corporate-funded American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), working below the radar, serving as a catalyst to bring together legislators and their corporate funders in common cause to write legislation in service of their corporate bottom lines. As always, their scheduled 44th Annual Meeting in Denver, July 19-21, will take place behind closed doors, open only to corporate members who contribute thousands of dollars and up, and legislative members who pay up to $100, often directly from their campaign coffers. ALEC presents itself as a “501(c)(3) educational organization that provides nonpartisan research, study and analysis”; their professed intent - to “develop research-based model policies focused on limited government, free markets and federalism.”

“Limited” government is an understatement - it is government truly limited to serving and serving up large financial gains to captains of industry who write policy and in turn grease the palms of their legislative servants who enact their policy for them.

Common Cause has challenged ALEC’s “tax-exempt nonprofit status” even as ALEC actively lobbies for profit-driven legislation to benefit corporate members.

ALEC Seeks to Crush Participatory Democracy by Supplanting Voter, Worker & Local Power

Century-long juridical activism by conservative courts have reversed the power equation between corporations and the people who created them, even as unlimited cash has come to dominate corrupted politics, exacerbated by the 2010 Supreme Court decision Citizens United vs. Federal Election Commission. Massive amounts of cash are directed to campaigns, initiatives and litigation, even as decades of policies have effectively transferred wealth upward.

All that is left for friends of oligarchs is to crush participatory democracy. A primary goal of ALEC and its local government subsidiary, the American City County Exchange (ACCE) has been to suppress voter participation by erecting barriers in the form of photo ID laws and proof of citizenship requirements. Such strategies are intended to disenfranchise many vulnerable voters - the young, the old and minorities.

State Preemption Laws
Achieving corporate goals begins with targeting local government regulations that might impede corporate profits. Ostensibly to promote limited government, ALEC and its allies seek to privatize-for-profit public services, transferring the Public Commons to corporations, thus boosting the corporate bottom line at the expense of the people. Prime targets of privatization include Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, public schools and state pensions.

Furthering the assaults on workers, ALEC-allied corporations seek to ban collective bargaining for public sector unions. Also crippling unions are so-called “paycheck protection” laws that prevent assessment of union dues for political purposes without annual reauthorization from each member. ALEC-promoted “right-to-work” campaigns undermine private sector unions. Still more worker assaults preempt minimum wage increases, and require a higher burden of proof in workers’ compensation cases, while removing no-fault provisions, effectively compelling a worker who loses a claim to pay the employer’s legal fees.

Preemption laws are part of a dual-track strategy used by corporations and politicians to block progressive policies at the local level. The second track occurs when industries and trade associations file a barrage of lawsuits against local governments as a warning to other localities against considering the same policies. Even as a state preemption bill was being advanced, six New Jersey trade associations rushed to court to challenge the passage of the November 2014 Earned Sick Days ballot measure. ALEC’s self-described ‘battleground over worker compensation’ triggered renewed legislation and litigation against “raise the wage” initiatives in cities like Seattle and Los Angeles in 2014.

Michigan’s Emergency Management Laws, advocated by ALEC members, permit privatization of elected public offices, allowing a governor-appointed Emergency Manager to replace locally elected officials in a municipality. An emergency manager is granted power to destroy collective bargaining, to lower wages for public workers, to break public employee contracts, and to sell off public assets to the private sector. In such a capacity, a Flint, Michigan Emergency Manager triggered one of the greatest toxic water emergencies in the U.S. by switching Flint’s water supply from Detroit’s system to the contaminated Flint River “to save money.”

Because it is easier for industry to work their money and influence in 50 state legislatures than in thousands of municipalities, ALEC creates model state preemption laws to directly or retroactively block local laws and ordinances. Preemption laws strip the right of local governance surrounding every conceivable issue, including minimum wage, paid sick leave and benefits, pensions, rent control, community broadband, cyanide heap leach mining, high-volume slick-water hydraulic fracturing (“fracking”), pesticide and GMO restrictions, plastic bag bans, gun safety laws, factory farming, or anything else industry desires to control.

The ultimate takedown of direct democracy has been the targeting of Citizen Ballot Initiatives, placing the process out of reach for all but the wealthy elite. In order to block proposals for worker protections or industry regulation, ALEC advocates making it harder to qualify referendum language, and requiring super-majorities to pass ballot issues. In 2016 the Colorado oil and gas industry pushed Initiative 71 to place the Citizen Ballot Initiative out of reach for all but wealthy interests, requiring supermajority passage, as well as a percent of voter signatures from each of 35 state senate districts to place a subject on the ballot.

More Model Laws Authored by ALEC with Corporate Funders

Private Prison Industrial Complex Writes Immigration Law
Model legislation written by ALEC with member Corrections Corporation of America, the largest U.S. private prison corporation, promoted in various states and enacted in Arizona, permits stopping anyone suspected of being undocumented, and imprisoning those not carrying proper paperwork.

ALEC & Utilities Promote Climate Change Denial & Suppression of Solar Energy
Actively promoting climate change denial, ALEC has drafted model legislation in Florida and other states to depress incentives for rooftop solar by ending net metering, while the state Public Service Commission, at the request of Florida’s Utility Companies, voted to end Florida’s solar rebate program, and granted permission to Power and Light to invest $191 million of customer money in fracking operations in Oklahoma.

Preemption of Local Gun Laws
Beginning in the 1990s ALEC worked with the gun industry to enact preemption of gun laws in almost every state. Additionally, “super-preemption” legislation pushed by the industry creates “private right of action” allowing individuals or groups the right to sue local governments or local officials if they believe they are enforcing local firearms laws.

Privatization of Public Education for Profit
Seeking to privatize public education for profit of private corporations, Charles and David Koch have created a six-figure Colorado campaign through their Americans for Prosperity Foundation and the Libre Initiative (focused on Hispanic community outreach) to promote “school choice” and education savings accounts (ESAs), currently offered in 5 states. ESAs give tax dollars directly to parents for private education, etc., diverting money from public schools.

In Colorado: Legislative and Judicial Preemptions of Local Government
State Preemption of Community Broadband
Telecommunication companies, i.e., Qwest and Comcast, lobbied the 2005 state legislature to pass state preemption of municipal broadband. The law provides for local Colorado community broadband pending success of a voter referendum, with restrictions applied.

State Preemption of Local Gun Laws
In 2003 an ALEC model state preemption of local gun safety laws (SB-03-25) was signed by Governor Bill Owens, rendering local gun ordinances unenforceable. Denver challenged the preemption law in court & got to keep bans on assault weapons and open firearms carry only after a tie vote when a Colorado Supreme Court justice recused herself.

AgGag Laws - Factory Farming
ALEC bill, “The Animal and Ecological Terrorism Act” seeks to criminalize as “terrorists” whistle blowers who reveal abusive/dangerous conditions at animal facilities. The Colorado Agricultural Protection Act of 1981 C.R.S. 35-3.5-102 voids any local ordinance “that makes operation of any agricultural operation a nuisance,” with few exceptions.

Minimum Wage Preemption
Colorado law SB99-014 passed in 1999 prohibits enactment of a minimum wage by any local governing body, initiative, referendum, or any other process.

Preemption of Bans on Mining with Acidic Chemicals, e.g., Cyanides
Acidic wastewater from cyanide heap leach gold mining at the Summitville Mine in the San Juan Mountains killed off 17 miles of the Alamosa River. Five counties that banned use of toxic chemicals/cyanide for mining, saw their bans overturned by the Colorado Supreme Court in 2009 on the basis of state preemption of local law.

Preemption of Ban on Fracking
A Greeley ban on oil and gas extraction enacted as a local ordinance in 1985, both by ballot initiative in a home rule city, and by city council action, was overturned by two 1992 Colorado Supreme Court cases, Voss v. Lundvall Bros. Inc and Bowen/Edwards Assoc. Inc. v. Board of County Commissioners of La Plata County, holding that the Colorado Oil and Gas Conservation Act (O&GCA) preempts any outright ban as well as any local regulation that creates an “operational conflict” with the O&GCA. Fracking bans and moratoriums in Longmont, Lafayette, Fort Collins and Broomfield have all been challenged in court by the Oil & Gas industry.

Preemption of Rent Control
A 1981 Colorado law prohibiting control of rents by counties and municipalities was enacted as a reaction to a Boulder citizen initiative to impose rent controls. A 2000 Colorado Supreme Court decision held that the state statute prohibiting local communities from enacting rent control preempted a local ordinance enacted by the City Council of the home rule city of Telluride that would have required a percentage of affordable housing in a new development.

Preemption of Plastic Bag Ban
A 1989 Colorado state law, HB 89-1300, prohibits a ban of the use or sale of plastic materials or products in Colorado. A bill to overturn that law in 2014 failed. To work around the prohibition of a ban on plastic bags and to reduce waste, a number of communities have imposed fees on plastic and paper bags.


A former nurse, Michele Swenson has researched and written about the history of women’s health care, as well as religious fundamentalist and gun-centered ideologies. Her book Democracy Under Assault: TheoPolitics, Incivility and Violence on the Right is an in-depth examination of the fractured church-state divide, assaults on the independent judiciary, as well as resurgent 19th century science, socioeconomic Darwinism, corporatism, and Christian nativism. She is a member of the working committee of Health Care for All Colorado Foundation that created the proposal.

DOR
04 Jul 17,, 13:46
More on ALEC:

Three of the 29 board members are Democrats, two from Arkansas (Steve Faris and Bobby Hogue) and one from Iowa (Dolores Mertz). All of the state chairs are GOPers.

The distinguished corporate sponsors include Koch Industries, Altria (you know it as Philip Morris), the American Petroleum Institute, Amoco, Anheuser Bush, the Cato Institute, the Federalist Society, Dow Chemical, DuPont, Eli Lilly, ExxonMobile, Farmer’s Insurance, State Farm Insurance, the National Association of Mutual Insurance Companies, the National Pawnbrokers Association, the NRA, News Corp, PwC, Thomson Reuters, Time Warner, Verizon, T-Mobile, UPS, FedEx, and the US Chamber of Commerce.

DOR
03 Dec 17,, 14:53
Americans cast 7.63 million more votes in 2016 than we did in 2012. However, the results are quite a mixed bag.

The largest increase, 12.9%, was in Arizona; others in the double digits include Texas (12.2%), Oregon (11.9%), Utah (11.2%), Florida (11.2%) and Nevada (10.9%).

At the other end of the spectrum are Mississippi (-5.9%), Wisconsin (-3%), Ohio (-1.5%), Hawai’i (-1.3%) and Iowa (-1%).

Turnout among the 18-24 year olds – those who will spend the most time living under the judicial appointments made by this administration – was just about half (34.8%) of the turnout among the over-65s (66.4%). That’s an extra 10.5 million votes that we’re cast by younger citizens, compared to their grandparents.

Kind of makes you wonder if the results might have been different if the voter turnout was more balanced.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VAcF0eJ06y_8T4o2gvIL4YcyQy8pxb1zYkgXF76Uu1s/edit#gid=2030096602