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troung
26 Jan 17,, 17:29
Not sure why anyone would want to come to this racist place





Trump’s order to ban refugees and immigrants triggers fears across the globe

By Sudarsan Raghavan, Louisa Loveluck and Kevin Sieff

January 26 at 10:56 AM 

CAIRO — President Trump’s executive order to start vetting potential immigrants and visitors to the United States, as well as to ban some refugees seeking to resettle there, will shatter countless dreams and divide families, would-be immigrants and human rights activists warned.

The draft order, expected to be signed as early as Thursday, calls for the immediate cessation of ongoing resettlement of Syrian refugees in the United States, rejecting visas for visitors and immigrant hopefuls based partly on their ideology and opinions.


“I feel devastated,” said Ibrahim Abu Ghanem, 37, a father of three in the Yemeni capital, Sanaa, whose father and two brothers live in the United States. “This means all my future plans are going to go down the drain.”

If the order is enacted, potential immigrants and visitors from seven Muslim countries — Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Somalia, Iran, Libya and Sudan — considered by the Trump administration as nations whose citizens “would be detrimental to the interests of the United States” will be immediately affected. For the next 30 days, they will not be allowed entry into the United States, even if they have visas and relatives who are U.S. citizens.



Religious leaders and immigrant rights supporters protested near the White House to condemn President Trump's executive orders to crack down on refugees and undocumented immigrants. (Video: Alice Li/Photo: Oliver Contreras/The Washington Post)

[The Islamic State wanted the West to fear refugees and Muslims. It worked.]

The order also calls for halting all admission and resettlement of refugees for 120 days pending the review of vetting procedures. For Syrian refugees, the ban will remain in place until further notice.

Once restarted, annual refugee admissions from all nations would be halved, from its current level of 100,000 to 50,000.

For those affected, the fear is that the order will be a harbinger for even greater restrictions on the horizon for Muslim immigrants, refugees and visitor -- fulfilling Trump’s campaign promises of “extreme vetting” of foreigners seeking entry into the United States and installing “a Muslim ban.” Somalia, Syria, Iraq and Iran are among the leading countries of origin of recent refugees to the United States.




“It’s going to be devastating,” said Denise Bell, senior campaigner for refugee and migrant rights for the watchdog group Amnesty International. “Refugees are not a threat. They are the ones fleeing horrific violence. They are trying to rebuild their lives. They want the same safety and opportunities that any of us would want.”

“And so we are scapegoating them in the guise of national security. Instead, we are betraying our own values. We are violating international law,” she said.

Since Wednesday, as news of the impending order spread, lives were quickly affected across the world, particularly among the citizens of the countries immediately affected. For them, it's already difficult to get visas or immigrate to the United States. Vetting has been stringent since the September 11, 2001 terror attacks, say human rights activists. Even so, many potential Muslim immigrants went through long screening processes, often lasting years, to gain entry to the United States. Now, many find themselves in an emotional and bureaucratic limbo.





Syrian refugees to Trump: We are not terrorists
 

Play Video3:14




After fleeing war in Syria and living in Jordan for two years, the Jbawi family came to America through the U.S. Refugee Resettlement Program. They are optimistically building a new life in Baltimore while keeping an eye on the national conversation about Muslim refugees. (Zoeann Murphy/The Washington Post)

[Trump’s intervention into policing, voting and immigration sets up showdown with America’s largest cities]

In Sanaa, Ghanem had been making plans to travel with his family to Cairo to apply for visas at the U.S. embassy. His mother and younger brother are also in Yemen. He wanted to reunite his family.

"My wife and I have spent countless nights dreaming of a better future for us and especially our children,” said Ghanem, a former administrator at a center for battling cancer.” We were hoping for a better life, better opportunities, and good education for our children.”

The shock for Syrian refugees already in the United States cut deepest for those awaiting the arrival of loved ones.

For Eman, a widow in Chicago who asked that her surname be withheld out of concern for family back home, that is her son.

They fled the western city of Homs in 2012, fearing he would be conscripted into President Bashar al-Assad's military. Months after her own arrival in America, she had expected the eldest to arrive in short order, once paperwork for his new marriage was approved.




“It seemed like everything was fine and he was finally going to join me here. Now they tell me it might be impossible because of the president's new decree,” she said. “I'm so scared. I came to America because I thought it would be best for my family.”

[Why Trump can’t simply build a wall along the U.S.-Mexico border with an executive order]

Syria's bitter war has sparked the largest refugee crisis since World War II. Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon have absorbed more than four million displaced Syrians, spread across camps or living on meager resources in cramped apartments. In comparison, the United States accepted less than 13,000 last year, a figure that only rose in the final months after tight vetting procedures initially stemmed the monthly flow to the low hundreds.

“We have to remember these people are escaping the very same terrorism that Trump says he’s banning them for,” said Suzanne Akhras Sahloul, founder of the Syrian Community Network, a grass-roots initiative that has stepped in to fill the linguistic and cultural gaps that larger relief agencies are unable to address.

Refugee advocates say the resettlement of Syrians presents challenges unusual in the United States, even among new refugees. Doctors in Chicago discovered that some Syrians still carried shrapnel in their bodies. Less visible but more pervasive is the trauma. Many have been tortured or lived amid constant bombardment.

In Iraq, where Iraqi military personnel are fighting against the Islamic State alongside U.S. special forces, the visa ban was considered an insult.

"They trained me to fight terrorism, and they look at me as a terrorist?" said one F-16 pilot who trained in the U.S. for five years, but declined to be named because he did not have permission to speak from his superiors. "It's true that they have the right to protect their country, but that doesn't mean they should treat us like we are germs."

[Video: Syrian refugees to Trump: We are not terrorists]

He said he has no desire to live in the United States, but that he would like to visit again and "relax" after "fighting terrorism on their behalf".

"If they really do ban us, it means we are of no value to them," he said. "They are just using us."

Ammar Karim, 37, an Iraqi correspondent with Agence France Presse, is in the final steps of a program to resettle in the United States. He had applied four years ago, and his sponsor in Seattle was recently informed to prepare for his arrival. Karim was one of the first interpreters to work with US Marines in Baghdad following the 2003 US-led invasion that toppled Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. He has also worked for large American news organizations, making him a target of militants.




On Thursday, Karim did not hide his disappointment and anger.

"Now, because of this new decision, I feel there is no hope that I will move to the U.S.," said Karim. "I will have to stay in this country that is still not at peace. The people who will be affected by this ban are those who did the best for America in Iraq. They sacrificed their lives."

"It’s not fair," he continued. "This president doesn’t understand our situation. The U.S. is abandoning the people who stood behind them."

For Iran and Iranian-Americans, the new restrictions are expected to hit particularly hard. Of the roughly one million Iranian-Americans now living in the United States, the vast majority still has family members inside Iran. Those relatives, who fall under the new executive order banning citizens from certain countries, would be prohibited from visiting loved ones in the United States. Students, artists, filmmakers and even Europeans who also hold Iranian passports could be denied entry.

Under the executive order, governments are required to provide U.S. agencies with information confirming that any applicants are not a security threat. But because the United States and Iran do not have diplomatic ties — and a history of tense relations — Iranian officials are unlikely to comply.

Even if they did, “we are skeptical. . . the Trump administration would accept such efforts,” NIAC Action, the sister organization of the National Iranian American Council, said in a statement Wednesday.

“This would, in effect, mean a permanent ban on entry for Iranians,” the advocacy group said, adding that even Iranian green-card holders currently outside of the United States could be barred from reentry.

In the world’s largest refugee camp, called Dadaab, near the Kenya-Somalia border, news of Trump’s impending announcement spread quickly.

“You could see the sadness on people’s faces,” said Mohammed Rashid, an English teacher who has been waiting for five years for his asylum case to be approved.

Between 2001 and 2015, the U.S. admitted more than 90,000 Somali refugees, according to the U.S. Office of Refugee Resettlement. Many of them came from Dadaab, where generations of Somalis first fled civil war and then Islamic extremist groups, often applying for asylum in the United States after arriving at the camp.




Rashid fled Somalia for Dadaab in 1992 to save his family from the country’s civil war.

“We thought our children would have better lives in the U.S.,” said Rashid. “Now, with Trump, we are disappointed. There is nowhere else for us to go.”

Rashid sat for an interview with American resettlement officials in Kenya in 2015. His fingerprints were taken, but while waiting for his asylum to be approved, he and his wife had a third child, which he said delayed their approval.

After the election, he started following several Trump-related accounts on Twitter to keep abreast of American news. His brother had been resettled in Seattle several years earlier, and he already felt an attachment to the United States. In November, when a Somali-born student at Ohio State injured 11 people in an attack, Rashid read Trump’s tweet that the attacker was a “Somali refugee who should not have been in our country.”

On Wednesday, Rashid saw a tweet that said Somali refugees would be banned from the United States. He said he tried not to cry.

“The refugees are people who ran away, they are victims,” he said. “I don’t know why we are being targeted.”

In Sudan, many people were surprised to see their country on the list of affected countries. Earlier this month, the Obama administration relaxed longstanding sanctions on the country, and it appeared that relations between the two nations were warming. As part of the agreement to lift sanctions, Sudanese officials pledged to increase cooperation on combating terrorism.

In 2001, the United States accepted more than 4,000 so-called “Lost Boys” from Sudan, whose families were killed or vanished during the country’s civil war. Their stories were broadcast in dozens of books, movies and television reports. Some of them went on to careers as professional athletes, diplomats and renowned writers.

The United States later resettled a large number of refugees fleeing conflict in Sudan’s Darfur region, where 3.3 million people are still in need of humanitarian assistance, according to the United Nations.

Some Sudanese refugees in Cairo, have spent years in Egypt seeking resettlement to the United States and Europe. Now, there's even less hope.

“I have been trying for four years, but all is in vain,” said Maher Ismail, 23, a university student. “Our conditions here are dire. It is very difficult to get anywhere, the U.S. or any other place.”

“I have applied for a lottery visa three months ago anyway, but I know how this is going to end up,” he added.

Ghanem believes that the attitude towards Muslim immigrants and visitors will only worsen in the United States is afraid his family will never be reunited.

“This decision has really destroyed our dreams,” he said. “I don't know what I will say to my mother or how I would break the news for her.”



Loveluck reported from Beirut and Sieff from Nairobi. Ali Al Mujahed in Sanaa, Yemen, Heba Mahfouz in Cairo, Mustafa Salim in Baghdad, Loveday Morris in Jerusalem, Erin Cunningham in Turkey and Heba Habib in Stockholm contributed to this report.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/trumps-impending-bans-on-refugees-and-immigrants-triggers-fears-globally/2017/01/26/c698e67e-e33d-11e6-a419-eefe8eff0835_story.html?utm_term=.23fa6d281e6e

bonehead
28 Jan 17,, 03:58
Racist? Muslims encompass several races and nationalities.

MedDog
28 Jan 17,, 05:14
How exactly does not wanting to let people who can't be properly vetted into the country fit into the definition of racism?

xerxes
29 Jan 17,, 05:47
Seriously,
If you want to think that way than Hitler wasnt racist as Judaism was a religion and not a single race and definitly not a nationality.

troung
29 Jan 17,, 05:57
I was being sarcastic....

xerxes
29 Jan 17,, 06:21
Although the thread says refugee the ban applies to dual citizens and Green card holders. Meaning it will impact just about anyone that is normal but just speaks a different language and probably has darker skin than the usual white (but born from those countries). Guess what, one of the first caught at JFK was a Iraqi translator for the US Army. Yeap. Your own allies. Congrats on the big catch.

Tell me, why folks from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are not banned ? is the Wahhabist regime in Riadh that tremoundous !

On a side note, I always saw US as the "right" moral leader of world. There were times, where it may have stumbled (cowboy-era-let's-go-kill-some-Iraqi era of Bolton/Cheney/Rumsfeld), but in aggregate throughout history it was a force for good and greateness as it had done more than its fair share to help those in needs ... and to be fair at times gotten little back for its own people in return. What can I say; the weight of crown is heavy no doubt. That being said, I do believe one needs to respect American people in their choice of their administration since the people have spoken and wanted to change.

But now that has been done, there is no going back and there are consequences. Meaning that you will loose all your priviliges and free pass for being snub and going around the world and telling people how they should live their lives. You will loose the right to pretend how your actions will help free others (when it is clearly self-centered) and equally/inversly sadly the world will also loose a force for good when US actually steps in does something positive that is not self-centered. You will loose the right to have the moral leadership. Will US fall into the same category of Putin's Russia, hopefully not, but definitly wont be where it was before.

Lastly, I remember when Ahmedinejad was president in Iran. I was so trying hard to explain to people, the concept of a populist president taking over a nation and that although he was saying lots of crazy things it was means to hold his power/base rather than actual him being crazy. I recall how other posters were all getting self rightous and giving lecturing about their flawless Western government of how they would never say crazy things (Bush at the time). Well guess f**ing what ? now you got a populist president and he's got half of the nation by their balls.

Mihais
29 Jan 17,, 07:37
Sorry friend,but you are mistaken.While the ban should clearly include those you mention and more,while giving a waiver to those who helped US,this by no means reduces anything.America was a true model before 1965.It has been one since,too.But the difference is that before people noticed a good thing when they saw it.After it was a bit of coercion in that."Be as we say,or else..."
American culture became a mockery since it started with this sort if baseless platitudes.There is also no shortage of dark skinned people.

troung
29 Jan 17,, 09:30
American culture became a mockery since it started with this sort if baseless platitudes.There is also no shortage of dark skinned people.


Dafuq? Sadly stuff like this attracts such people, oddly the guy who doesn't realize when people talk about how great the west is and its superiority to all else; they don't mean his people.

====
On the subject of refugees I'd be fine applying the Japanese model.

Chunder
29 Jan 17,, 10:24
Yeah, nah, http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria

DOR
29 Jan 17,, 10:39
The only reason The Trumpet has put in place restrictions on visitors to the US from specific countries is because it would be too easy to overturn restrictions on the basis of religion. It also would lay bare the hypocrisy of the so-called evangelical rightwing.

Doktor
29 Jan 17,, 18:52
The only reason The Trumpet has put in place restrictions on visitors to the US from specific countries is because it would be too easy to overturn restrictions on the basis of religion. It also would lay bare the hypocrisy of the so-called evangelical rightwing.

Still doesn't explain KSA, UAE, Pakistan waiver.

I have seen a meme on FB, with analysis from Cato Institute saying the citizens from the banned countries killed 0 Americans on US soil, while those on the waiver amassed to 3000 (the methodology is somewhat weird, but the point is still there).

Chunder
29 Jan 17,, 22:24
Still doesn't explain KSA, UAE, Pakistan waiver.

I have seen a meme on FB, with analysis from Cato Institute saying the citizens from the banned countries killed 0 Americans on US soil, while those on the waiver amassed to 3000 (the methodology is somewhat weird, but the point is still there).

All those countries are U.S. Allies. DOR is incorrect, as the papers that can be bothered doing their job pointed out, and latest on American Thinker, it clearly isn't a ban on Muslims - and has done before. More often than not by Democrat Presidents.

Just disappointing so many outlets have reverted to the propoganda of so many autocratic regimes. I'd swear it's as if they want to be so blatantly incorrect - Trump couldn't possibly ask for a better cheerleader.

Fake News with Alternative Democrat facts around every corner.

tbm3fan
29 Jan 17,, 23:31
Yeah, nah, http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria

You're kidding, right. Aussie sense of humor I guess.

DOR
30 Jan 17,, 09:38
The Economist, Jan 28, 2017

"In the past 40 years there has been not a single fatal terrorist attack in America carried out by anyone belonging to the seven nationalities targeted by the order. Excluding the 9/11 attacks, whose Egyptian, Emirati, Lebanese and Saudi Arabian executioners would not have been covered by Mr Trump’s ban, America has suffered hardly any terrorism perpetrated by immigrants. According to a study by Alex Nowrasteh for the Cato Institute, the risk of an American being killed in a terrorist attack by a refugee in a given year is one in 3.6bn."

and,

"Worsening the damage, he also signalled, in an interview with a Christian television channel, that the ban would not apply to Christians. Syrian Christians, claimed Mr Trump, were “horribly treated” by his predecessor. 'If you were a Muslim you could come in, but if you were a Christian, it was almost impossible,' he said. 'I thought it was very, very unfair. So we are going to help them.' This was not merely incendiary but untrue: last year America accepted 37,521 Christian refugees and 38,901 Muslims."

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2017/01/keep-your-huddled-masses-0

troung
30 Jan 17,, 10:22
Abdul Razak Ali Artan, thankfully didn't kill his victims

Monash
30 Jan 17,, 13:04
Abdul Razak Ali Artan, thankfully didn't kill his victims

Your statement hardly repudiates the point of the article though does it? At its worst the policy is a massive overreaction to a non-existent threat (Americans are in more danger from their household appliances than they are from 'Moslem terrorists') and at best it's misdirected, not even targeting those countries with the worse records for tolerating /promoting extremism. I mean if your going to pull out a gun and shoot something at least at shoot the right target for Gods sake.

GVChamp
30 Jan 17,, 15:37
Household appliances are sort of needed to run my household. Refugees are people we accept out of the goodness of our hearts. They aren't the same.

I might have agreed that the risk was trivial 10 years ago, but not today. Banning refugees is a no-brainer. It's also infinitely preferable to letting in a million of them.

astralis
30 Jan 17,, 15:57
Banning refugees is a no-brainer. It's also infinitely preferable to letting in a million of them.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/us-government-turned-away-thousands-jewish-refugees-fearing-they-were-nazi-spies-180957324/


n the summer of 1942, the SS Drottningholm set sail carrying hundreds of desperate Jewish refugees, en route to New York City from Sweden. Among them was Herbert Karl Friedrich Bahr, a 28-year-old from Germany, who was also seeking entry to the United States. When he arrived, he told the same story as his fellow passengers: As a victim of persecution, he wanted asylum from Nazi violence.

But during a meticulous interview process that involved five separate government agencies, Bahr's story began to unravel. Days later, the FBI accused Bahr of being a Nazi spy. They said the Gestapo had given him $7,000 to steal American industrial secrets—and that he'd posed as a refugee in order to sneak into the country unnoticed. His case was rushed to trial, and the prosecution called for the death penalty.

What Bahr didn’t know, or perhaps didn’t mind, was that his story would be used as an excuse to deny visas to thousands of Jews fleeing the horrors of the Nazi regime....

The American ambassador to France, William Bullitt, made the unsubstantiated statement that France fell in 1940 partly because of a vast network of spying refugees. “More than one-half the spies captured doing actual military spy work against the French Army were refugees from Germany,” he said. “Do you believe there are no Nazi and Communist agents of this sort in America?”

Immigration restrictions actually tightened as the refugee crisis worsened. Wartime measures demanded special scrutiny of anyone with relatives in Nazi territories—even relatives in concentration camps. At a press conference, President Roosevelt repeated the unproven claims from his advisers that some Jewish refugees had been coerced to spy for the Nazis. “Not all of them are voluntary spies,” Roosevelt said. “It is rather a horrible story, but in some of the other countries that refugees out of Germany have gone to, especially Jewish refugees, they found a number of definitely proven spies.”

troung
30 Jan 17,, 17:12
The refugees at issue are safe in their camps, it's cheaper to keep them there, and safer for us. They are owed nothing.


Your statement hardly repudiates the point of the article though does it? A


Yes it does.

Doktor
30 Jan 17,, 20:30
Household appliances are sort of needed to run my household. Refugees are people we accept out of the goodness of our hearts. They aren't the same.

I might have agreed that the risk was trivial 10 years ago, but not today. Banning refugees is a no-brainer. It's also infinitely preferable to letting in a million of them.

Meh, they kept coming you liked it or not.

dan m
30 Jan 17,, 21:29
I'm not convinced this refugee ban actually does anything to keep the US safe. If anyone has evidence to change my opinion on it, I'd be more than happy to take a look at it.

tbm3fan
30 Jan 17,, 23:12
Abdul Razak Ali Artan, thankfully didn't kill his victims

Omar Mateen born in New Hyde Park, New York did manage to kill 49 victims...

xerxes
31 Jan 17,, 00:52
An uncoordinated executive order that left a complete mess. Found out 24 hours later that actually British and Canadian dual citizens were considered ok guys... for now. In the meantime, Green card holders were left in limbo. And this team in the White House that cannot even manage rolling out a simple progra wants to manage a trillion dollar economy. These are the clowns that was repel and replace O-care. Was listening to an interview, critics were saying how it would been good to have a heads-up on the bans, the Dr. Goebbels from the other side, were saying: "well, had we moved the program to Monday and advised airlines in advance, than the terrorist would have accelerated their plan". Shows the level of stupidity and ignorance behind that statement.

I don't know what Flynn and Steve Bahnon are up to, but whatever their plans are probably not pretty and have a feeling they are going to ruin the world, ... or Make America Great Again, depending on your political orientation.

That being said, I fundamentally don't have a problem with refugee ban and dont find that racist at all. It is inhumane but it is every nation choice to decide what they need to do, depending on their resources and their generosity. What I do consider racism is the action toward dual citizens and their own Green cardholders. Just because someone has darker skin, doesn't mean that he/she is about eat you.

By the way, great job in screwing the Iraqis, I hear they are really happy.
Disappointed with Mattis though.

xerxes
31 Jan 17,, 00:55
Yeah, nah, http://www.nationalreview.com/article/444370/donald-trump-refugee-executive-order-no-muslim-ban-separating-fact-hysteria

I read it, it is piece of work that is designed to reinforce one's right wing point of view. I seen something similar from Fareez Z. from CNN on FB that reinforces what the left wants to hear.

DOR
31 Jan 17,, 10:51
The refugees at issue are safe in their camps, it's cheaper to keep them there, and safer for us. They are owed nothing.

Bullshit.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/concern-spate-deaths-greek-refugee-camps-170130180746859.html
http://storymaps.esri.com/stories/2016/refugee-camps/

https://placesjournal.org/article/camp-code/?gclid=Cj0KEQiAiMHEBRC034nx2ImB1J0BEiQA-r7ctjUTF3cYjqhSOoZtXiOXqT8SJ73KhPGX1IjcyPYG5FAaAvH y8P8HAQ
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/03/refugees-horror-calais-jungle-refugee-camp-feel-like-dying-slowly

Mihais
31 Jan 17,, 12:43
Bullshit.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/concern-spate-deaths-greek-refugee-camps-170130180746859.html
http://storymaps.esri.com/stories/2016/refugee-camps/

https://placesjournal.org/article/camp-code/?gclid=Cj0KEQiAiMHEBRC034nx2ImB1J0BEiQA-r7ctjUTF3cYjqhSOoZtXiOXqT8SJ73KhPGX1IjcyPYG5FAaAvH y8P8HAQ
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/03/refugees-horror-calais-jungle-refugee-camp-feel-like-dying-slowly


The horror,the horror...

I assume you hosted 5-6 of those chaps in your own backyard since you call others' bs.

As for refugee safezones,KSA and Qatar should solve this mess,or else...And they will.They started this sh!t.Time to end it.Yes,that presumes them standing up to Assad and Russia.Will work wonders for the Syrian peace process.

That will also remove Russian and Turkish leverage on Europe.''Refugees'' are mostly a weapon for hostile nations.Yes,I give 2 fvcks about their humanity.

astralis
31 Jan 17,, 14:33
mihais,


'Refugees'' are mostly a weapon for hostile nations.Yes,I give 2 fvcks about their humanity.

of course you don't. the entire modern history of your country is a long fight against the Ottomans and then the Turks and then the Russians with the Hungarians thrown in for good measure.

we're Americans, we have a different history and cultural experience with refugees than your country. and thus most of us deny the idea that they're "weapons for hostile countries". we take refugees and make them into Americans. that is what we do.

Doktor
31 Jan 17,, 18:20
mihais,



of course you don't. the entire modern history of your country is a long fight against the Ottomans and then the Turks and then the Russians with the Hungarians thrown in for good measure.

we're Americans, we have a different history and cultural experience with refugees than your country. and thus most of us deny the idea that they're "weapons for hostile countries". we take refugees and make them into Americans. that is what we do.

You don't make them into Americans, but you make everyone Americans v 5.0. The American of 1990 is different than the the American 1/4 century later. Nothing wrong with the new Americans, just us the outsiders need some time to get used to it.

Mihais
31 Jan 17,, 20:29
Maybe so,gentlemen.But what I noticed years ago and these elections showed it for all to see is growing tribalism in America.Tribes tend to overlap with race and geography.

Dazed
01 Feb 17,, 00:26
mihais,



of course you don't. the entire modern history of your country is a long fight against the Ottomans and then the Turks and then the Russians with the Hungarians thrown in for good measure.

we're Americans, we have a different history and cultural experience with refugees than your country. and thus most of us deny the idea that they're "weapons for hostile countries". we take refugees and make them into Americans. that is what we do.

Yes for the most part. A large number of people were turned away from Ellis and Angel Island. There was also the Chinese exclusion act. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act. As late as 1994 California Voters passed Prop 187 a ballot initiative to establish a state-run citizenship screening system and prohibit illegal aliens from using non-emergency health care, public education, and other services in the State of California. I agree with your point of view but it is not so simple as saying we except all refugee. Mariel boatlift we still have some people in detention.

DOR
01 Feb 17,, 11:14
The horror,the horror...

I assume you hosted 5-6 of those chaps in your own backyard since you call others' bs.

As for refugee safezones,KSA and Qatar should solve this mess,or else...And they will.They started this sh!t.Time to end it.Yes,that presumes them standing up to Assad and Russia.Will work wonders for the Syrian peace process.

That will also remove Russian and Turkish leverage on Europe.''Refugees'' are mostly a weapon for hostile nations.Yes,I give 2 fvcks about their humanity.

Yes, I've hosted my fair share.
How about you?

xerxes
01 Feb 17,, 13:29
Looks like it took a call from Office Of Prime Minister in Ottawa to Fox News for them to change the wrongly reported fact that the shooter in Quebec City was Moroccan.

Fox News must have "forgotten" to fix those details. Other outlets seem to have change it.

troung
04 Feb 17,, 00:41
ASIA TIMES
The
Brief
POLITICSMIDDLE EAST
Why Middle Eastern nations support Trump’s immigration halt

The US president's measure has had precisely the result he intended, giving succour to those engaged in an existential war against jihadist elements

By SPENGLERFEBRUARY 3, 2017 12:05 PM (UTC+8) 2159
A billboard at the Trump International Golf Club Dubai. Photo: AFP / Karim Sahib
A billboard at the Trump International Golf Club Dubai. Photo: AFP / Karim Sahib
Critics of President Trump’s temporary travel ban on seven Muslim nations should remember the Chinese proverb, “Kill the chicken and let the monkey watch.”

The much-criticized measure was a warning to the governments of the Gulf States, Turkey and Pakistan, who walk a fine line between support for Western counter-terrorism efforts and concessions to jihadists. It has had precisely the result that the White House intended, as a Dubai security official indicated on January 29. As Reuters’ Zawya.com reported:

Dubai’s deputy chief of police and public security, Lieutenant General Dhahi Khalfan Tamim, has praised US President Donald Trump’s recent decision to temporarily ban citizens from seven Muslim-majority states, saying in a series of tweets it was a ‘preventive measure’ to safeguard the country.

THE DAILY
Brief
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Kudos to President Trump for his brave decisions… they (these people) can only be dealt with through preventive measures,” he said in an Arabic-language tweet dated January 29 on his official Twitter account.

“Trump banned the citizens of countries in the embrace of Iran and prevented the Iranians from entering… sound decision,” he added in another tweet…. “It is not necessary for America to host backward people, it has received enough before,” he said in one tweet. “What would a Yemini, Iraqi, Iranian, Somali or a Syrian do in America? They have destroyed their countries, they should not destroy America.”

Counter-terrorism officials in Muslim countries contending with a jihadist minority view Trump as an ally against their domestic enemies.

More importantly, Trump has suddenly won admiration in Erdoganist circles in Turkey, who held the Obama administration in contempt. Writing in Al-Monitor, Hurriyet Daily News columnist Mustafa Aykol reports that Trump is the hero of the pro-government press, despite (or perhaps because of) the immigration halt.

Like the governments of Egypt and Saudi Arabia, Aykol observes, Turkey is relieved by Trump’s election victory. “President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the ultimate authority, has so far said nothing about the ‘Muslim ban.’ Moreover, his propaganda machine, consisting of at least 10 national newspapers, several TV channels and thousands of social media trolls, has also been unusually silent about the issue. Daily Sabah, the flagship of the pro-government empire, has been absolutely silent on the ban. Daily Star, another key newspaper, published only a small and neutral report. Daily Aksam did run a headline on the ban, but only with a subtitle: ‘He [Trump] must be given a chance.'”

“It is not necessary for America to host backward people, it has received enough before”
As cited by Aykol, Daily Sabah columnist Hilal Kaplan wrote in a Turkish-language commentary that “the American president who is responsible for destabilizing the seven banned Muslim nations was none other than former President Barack Obama. It was of course bad that American Muslims were in trouble, but what really mattered were ‘Muslims in our region.’”

Obama helped overthrow Libya’s leader Muamar Qadaffi and Egypt’s President Mubarak, and backed Syrian jihadists against the Assad government with just enough firepower to keep the civil war going without a hope of finishing it. The US allowed the Sunni extremists who formed ISIS to operate undisturbed in the hope of directing them against Assad – a point made forcefully by Gen. Michael Flynn, head of the Defense Intelligence Agency under Obama and now Trump’s National Security adviser.

The Obama administration’s dalliance with jihadists of various stripes helped throw the region into chaos, and contributed to the humanitarian catastrophe in Syria which has killed half a million civilians and displaced perhaps ten million. These problems turned up on Turkey’s doorstep, literally so in the case of the two million Syrian refugees now housed in Turkish refugee camps. The Syrian Civil War also raised the prospect of an independent Kurdish entity on Turkey’s border with Syria linking up with the Kurdish autonomous zone in Iraq. That is Erdogan’s nightmare: the Kurdish-majority provinces in Turkey’s southeast have a far higher fertility rate than ethnic Turks. Demographic pressures are a serious long-term threat to Turkey’s territorial integrity, as I reported in Asia Times last year.

Turkey also suspects that the Obama administration gave aid and comfort to the military coup plotters of July 2016, who appeared inspired by the rogue Turkish cleric Fethullah Gülen. I doubt that Obama helped instigate the coup, but the Gülenists had some backing in the US intelligence community, as I reported here. Erdogan’s turn towards Moscow in the aftermath of the coup was motivated in part by his distrust of Washington, and Gen. Flynn has been at pains to return Turkey to the NATO fold.

Although Pakistan has said nothing about the immigration ban, its actions suggest that it got the message from the White House. After years of prevaricating, Pakistani authorities finally arrested the radical Muslim cleric Hafiz Saeed, accused of planning the 2008 Mumbai massacre carried out by Pakistani jihadists.

Through a combination of incompetence and weakness, the Obama administration contributed materially to violence in the Middle East, threatening the stability of traditional American allies such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. In addition, it encouraged the Iranians to assert their military power in the region, which the Sunni states view with alarm. If the Obama administration did not create ISIS, it stood godfather to the birth of the movement, as Gen. Flynn observed and reported during his tenure at Defense Intelligence.

In that respect, Ms. Kaplan at the Daily Sabah is punctiliously correct to blame the Obama administration for the humanitarian and strategic catastrophe which has befallen her region during the past several years. Western pundits who protest the supposed inhumanity of Trump’s temporary immigration halt said not a word while the Obama administration steered the region towards disaster and half a million Syrians died in their country’s civil war. Their objections should be read as politically-motivated hypocrisy.

The governments who have to deal with the consequences of American fecklessness, by contrast, want the United States to be strong and assertive. They are engaged in an existential war against jihadist elements who threaten to reduce them to chaos, and look to the United States to show determination. That is why Trump is suddenly so popular in the Middle East.

POLITICS MIDDLE EAST DONALD TRUMP MUSLIM BAN UNITED STATES TURKEY SYRIA
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bonehead
04 Feb 17,, 04:24
Seriously,
If you want to think that way than Hitler wasnt racist as Judaism was a religion and not a single race and definitly not a nationality.

So now a temp ban until you can seperate the terrorists from the rest equates to rounding up, enslaving and murdering millions. BTW Hitlar loved to carry on about the master race.

bonehead
04 Feb 17,, 04:27
I'm not convinced this refugee ban actually does anything to keep the US safe. If anyone has evidence to change my opinion on it, I'd be more than happy to take a look at it.

Take a peak at all the fun Europe has been having after allowing millions of refugees from these countries.

xerxes
05 Feb 17,, 05:07
So now a temp ban until you can seperate the terrorists from the rest equates to rounding up, enslaving and murdering millions. BTW Hitlar loved to carry on about the master race.


That is not what i said, ... but by all means feel free to think that is what i said if that makes you feel better.

xerxes
19 Feb 17,, 05:02
44 million hits on this clip from this dumbass.
Man, people are so brain washed. Both sides though: Liberals and GOP-Trumpets alike.
Country need to defend their border as they see fit. Period. No question about it.

Just find it hilarious that, these people that won't hesitate to unleash drones and obliterate entire neighbourhoods in SOMEONE ELSE nation find it surprising that the local population don't like them. In any case, his comment is really contradictory to what i have read in the past about Iraqi-American relationship. So cannot comment on his assertions about local Iraqis. But sounds like he has been there too long, hence his hatred of the "savages".

The uneducated fool that he is, he groups everything into one basket: "these countries ...". Do these guys have anything higher than high school education ? was he born when America (white Americans and not muslims) dropped total tonnage of entire WWII on Vietnam. How did that make the Vietnamese feel about Americans? How does he feel about White House bending knee to the ultra-conservative Wahhabist in KSA for decades and counting ?
I hope that all the rank and file in the US military are not made of the same stock ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0KMz_AUBFM

troung
19 Feb 17,, 05:52
If the people in "entire neighbourhoods in SOMEONE ELSE nation" would stop trying to murder our civilians, they wouldn't get drone striked.


was he born when America (white Americans and not muslims) dropped total tonnage of entire WWII on Vietnam.


In response to armed invasion.

xerxes
19 Feb 17,, 06:31
If the people in "entire neighbourhoods in SOMEONE ELSE nation" would stop trying to murder our civilians, they wouldn't get drone striked.

In response to armed invasion.


Apologies sir, i think I would need to re-read my copy of Cobra II. I clearly remember that it was US that fabricated some evidence and invaded Iraq ... not other way around. What business did American had in Eye-raq?

What arm invasion? I dont recall a Vietnamese invasion of the continental US. But looks like, good white American Christians decided to send them all to hell anyways. What business did American had in Vietnam other than doing what the French couldn't do ?

In any case, I can understand, with the sentiment and agree that nations ought to do what they need to do to protect their border. But not going to allow the propaganda machine to just churn out lies on YouTube and elsewhere.

If you are ever in doubt, just listen back to what Mr Trump said during the FOX interview, where he admitted the tug-like, war-like Putin type folks governing in the US.

troung
19 Feb 17,, 07:54
We were the targets of terrorism before OEF.



What arm invasion? I dont recall a Vietnamese invasion of the continental US. But looks like, good white American Christians decided to send them all to hell anyways. What business did American had in Vietnam other than doing what the French couldn't do ?


North Vietnam was invading South Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia.

Not sure what race has to do with stuff here; but i guess Trump is doing the refugees a favor by keeping them out this evil nation.

MAGA