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lemontree
16 Dec 14,, 09:55
The TTP have struck a school in Peshawar killing a number of children. Very unfortunate and tragic.

Peshawar siege live: Taliban bomber blows himself up in school; 17 boys dead - Firstpost (http://www.firstpost.com/world/peshawar-siege-live-taliban-bomber-blows-himself-up-in-school-17-boys-dead-1852007.html)

BBC reports that Taliban spokespersons have told the agency that the strike follows the aggressive operations under taken by the Pakistan Army to rout militants from northwest Pakistan. "Hundreds of Taliban fighters are thought to have died in a recent military offensive in North Waziristan and the nearby Khyber area," reports BBC.

According to a government spokesperson who spoke to ARY news the assailants entered the school wearing army fatigues.

Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), incidentally, were also behind the attack on Malala Yousafzai....

lemontree
16 Dec 14,, 10:45
The dead toll seems to have gone above 100, with 84 children dead.
This is insane.

Officer of Engineers
16 Dec 14,, 11:01
At first I just shook my head. Then I imagine the bodies and it wrenches the heart.

Parihaka
16 Dec 14,, 11:06
I'm speechless

Oracle
16 Dec 14,, 11:12
A very sad incident. Prayers for the innocent kids.

JUST IN: Over 100 students killed, 80 injured in attack on army school in Peshawar

Taliban gunmen attack military-run school in northwest Pakistan (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/Taliban-gunmen-attack-military-run-school-in-northwest-Pakistan/articleshow/45532558.cms)
Says, 500 school kids are hostages.

Batista
16 Dec 14,, 12:02
Militants attack Peshawar school; 126 dead (http://nation.com.pk/national/16-Dec-2014/militants-attack-peshawar-school-over-20-dead)

122 killed are kids. :eek::eek:

The Taliban have claimed responsibility for the attack.

This is a Pakistani 26/11 by Pakistanis themselves.

zraver
16 Dec 14,, 14:29
Taliban attack on a Pakistani Army school in Peshawar. At least 126 dead and scored wounded, mostly kids grades 1-10

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/12/16/taliban-pakistan-school-attack/

commander
16 Dec 14,, 15:05
Sad indeed, they tasted their own medicine and hope the nation recovers from this loss and wakes up the reality of terrorism in their country rather than blame India for alll of their misfortunes. Kids shouldn't have been involved in this, their army would have been justified,but not innocent kids.

Batista
16 Dec 14,, 15:40
160+ kids killed!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Peshawar school attack: Taliban storms Pakistan school, kills 160 students, holds hundreds hostage | The Financial Express (http://www.financialexpress.com/article/miscellaneous/taliban-take-hundreds-hostage-at-pakistani-military-school-18-dead/19743/)

SteveDaPirate
16 Dec 14,, 15:48
Why would they deliberately kill so many little children?

I literally can't think of anything the Taliban could have done that would alienate their Pakistani supporters faster.

Attacking the Pakistani army or government would have been understandable, blowing up a marketplace would have been cowardly and indiscriminate, but intentionally targeting children just seems indefensible.

TopHatter
16 Dec 14,, 16:02
Their barbarism knows no bounds.

My deepest sympathies to the families of those who perished :frown:

antimony
16 Dec 14,, 16:41
160+ dead, most of them kids. It is times like this when I wish I believed in the concepts of hell and eternal hellfire for the rabid dogs who did this.

I would like to see what the TTP apologists in Pakistan say now

Batista
16 Dec 14,, 17:00
160+ dead, most of them kids. It is times like this when I wish I believed in the concepts of hell and eternal hellfire for the rabid dogs who did this.

I would like to see what the TTP apologists in Pakistan say now

What you give is what you get... that's the concept Pakistan would never learn.

They cheered when innocents died in the similar attack in India in 26/11.

Oracle
16 Dec 14,, 17:18
160 kids. That's a lot of future Engineers, Doctors, Scientists, Agriculturists, Humanitarians, Billionaires murdered. I know the PA is capable, I just wish they put an end to all of these mindless killings.

commander
16 Dec 14,, 18:46
What's more painful is to see Pakistani's still believing that India/RAW is the behind all this. Just when India was trending #IndiawithPakistan they are trending #StopIndianterrorismInPakistan. Man will they even learn :confused: their sins have come back to haunt them.. As much as I am against the violence against anyone anywhere when Kurdish girls and women were raped and sold in Black market there was not even a peep either from Indian side nor in Pakistan. I am with the families of the kids that lost their lives and pray they went to a better place , but if Pakistani's don't learn a lesson and want to blame us, god save them :redface:

Mohan
16 Dec 14,, 18:54
RIP. It's sad to see kids being killed no matter to which country they belong. Hope army is now clear there is no good taliban or bad taliban or a moderate taliban. Pigs should be put down. You shall reap what you sow.

Oracle
16 Dec 14,, 18:55
Can we please stop with the finger-pointing and scoring brownie points out of a sad incident? For fucks sake, 160 KIDS have been killed. How can some of you be so insensitive? Pathetic and retarded.

barangai
16 Dec 14,, 19:00
I am really disappointed from the indian members across many fora's.Instead of supporting us,They are almost every where posting "karma is a bitch" and related comments.

For God sake,atleast look into the situation

On Topic:

I don't know what to do,i am feeling so helpless and angry.I just wish the scumbags are very dark future.

We should continue with our operation and this should serve as a reminder to the terrorists,no matter how much they bleed us,we are united,even stronger and will continue to fight them as long as we have a drop of blood left in us

Oracle
16 Dec 14,, 19:05
I am really disappointed from the indian members across many fora's.Instead of supporting us,They are almost every where posting "karma is a bitch" and related comments.

For God sake,atleast look into the situation

On Topic:

I don't know what to do,i am feeling so helpless and angry.I just wish the scumbags are very dark future.

We should continue with our operation and this should serve as a reminder to the terrorists,no matter how much they bleed us,we are united,even stronger and will continue to fight them as long as we have a drop of blood left in us

My prayers are with the departed kids, best wishes for those recovering. I am trying to, but can't imagine what the mothers of the slain kids would be feeling right now. Tragic. May Allah bless their soul.

commander
16 Dec 14,, 19:08
I am really disappointed from the indian members across many fora's.Instead of supporting us,They are almost every where posting "karma is a bitch" and related comments.

For God sake,atleast look into the situation

On Topic:

I don't know what to do,i am feeling so helpless and angry.I just wish the scumbags are very dark future.

We should continue with our operation and this should serve as a reminder to the terrorists,no matter how much they bleed us,we are united,even stronger and will continue to fight them as long as we have a drop of blood left in us

Please see the twitter trend #IndiawithPakistan, not everyone is heartless, we know how it is to lose lives to terrorism especially Kids. Our prayers are with the families and with your country.

commander
16 Dec 14,, 19:19
Why would they deliberately kill so many little children?

I literally can't think of anything the Taliban could have done that would alienate their Pakistani supporters faster.

Attacking the Pakistani army or government would have been understandable, blowing up a marketplace would have been cowardly and indiscriminate, but intentionally targeting children just seems indefensible.

Pakistani army had recently concluded successful mission hunting more than 900 taliban's. There is also word that this attack was to demonstrate that they are still in business or to show who can terrorize more and not be cannibalized by ISIS. Many fighters left TTP to join ISIS since Taliban's were losing their grip rapidly and losing their 'glamour' in terror whatever that means :bang: . The recent attack on Waha border,Karachi ariport attack and this are all to just prove they are still in the game. Sick a**holes. They killed kids as little as 3rd grade :frown:

Oracle
16 Dec 14,, 20:11
Check out the comments section of DAWN (http://www.dawn.com/news/1151224). Indians offering condolences and Pakistanis thanking in return. The tragedy has united people across borders.

antimony
16 Dec 14,, 20:23
I am really disappointed from the indian members across many fora's.Instead of supporting us,They are almost every where posting "karma is a bitch" and related comments.

For God sake,atleast look into the situation


And many Indians (like me) are slamming them and pointing to the fact that this is a South Asian and indeed world tragedy. SO stop putting everyone in the same basket. This is a tragedy for all of us



On Topic:

I don't know what to do,i am feeling so helpless and angry.I just wish the scumbags are very dark future.

We should continue with our operation and this should serve as a reminder to the terrorists,no matter how much they bleed us,we are united,even stronger and will continue to fight them as long as we have a drop of blood left in us

There was a quote that each USA drone attack would enable the Taliban to recruit entire villages. It appears that that PA ops in KPK might be having the same effect. Instead of fighting hard, maybe its time for the PA to fight smart. Aircraft attacks seem overkill, maybe there should be more embedding of troops on the ground?

barangai
16 Dec 14,, 21:10
And many Indians (like me) are slamming them and pointing to the fact that this is a South Asian and indeed world tragedy. SO stop putting everyone in the same basket. This is a tragedy for all of us



There was a quote that each USA drone attack would enable the Taliban to recruit entire villages. It appears that that PA ops in KPK might be having the same effect. Instead of fighting hard, maybe its time for the PA to fight smart. Aircraft attacks seem overkill, maybe there should be more embedding of troops on the ground?

This is not true,i have lived with the IDPs of North waziristan the whole month of Ramadan this year and believe me i have even found a family supporting drone strikes let alone the army operation.

Response to Zarbeazb was always expected though not to the childrens scale.Launching the biggest military operation without expecting a response from a group capable of striking any part of the country including sensitive installations is non sense.

The talibans today are at their weakest point since 2007,they don't have the strength of the daily/weekly bomb blasts anymore as they have lost the numbers and IED factories/Planning Groud.We should continue with the operations(zarbeazb and khyber 1) and expand them to Orakzai agency.

Troops are already on ground,As per reports few weeks earlier,ground operation was also launched in Shawal,NW

barangai
16 Dec 14,, 21:12
Most of the damage today was done in the intial 1/2 hour as they had no plan of taking hostages but rather had come to kill as many as possible.

Officer of Engineers
16 Dec 14,, 22:19
My heart bleeds for those kids. This just isn't right.

barangai
17 Dec 14,, 09:10
COAS Raheel Sharif has left for Afghanistan.

Well now its all upto Dr Ashraf Ghani govt,either he will have to be sincere and give up NDS activities or admit that he has no hold over NDS activities.

Together we can defeat the talibs on either side of the border,and Dr Ashraf Ghani is honest but is Abdullah x2 also?will they have control over the NDS activities?is a big question

Monash
17 Dec 14,, 10:58
Over here we have the media screaming about 'terror on the streets'. Incidents like this put our wows in perspective. I could only wish journalists over here were more interested in professional reporting and less interested in hysterical headlines.

That said Pakistan has no easy options. Institutionalized support of radical Muslim insurgences by sections of the military, intelligence and political classes (so long as they directed their attacks exclusively at India and Indian interests) has reached its logical concussion. The only options left are either submission to their political demands which is impossible since they cannot agree even amongst themselves over what those terms would be or a fight to the end - and I see little evidence that ordinary Pakistanis who dream of a better economic and social future for their children would chose the former over the latter.

gf0012-aust
17 Dec 14,, 11:17
Aircraft attacks seem overkill, maybe there should be more embedding of troops on the ground?

air has the advantage of being able to degrade, delaminate, dislocate, destroy at various levels - if you have access to air then you should use it
sooner or later, to kill the enemy at its core, you have to get on the ground, close in, kill and if don't have to worry about interference from the executive, engage at a total war level

lemontree
17 Dec 14,, 11:23
The talibans today are at their weakest point since 2007,they don't have the strength of the daily/weekly bomb blasts anymore as they have lost the numbers and IED factories/Planning Groud.
Which Taliban are you referring too,... the Haqqanis, the TTP or the Mullah Omar faction?
- Mullah Omar's group is still used as PA proxies in Afghanistan
- Haqqani's have more or tell gone against the PA and we all know about the TTP.

lemontree
17 Dec 14,, 11:25
COAS Raheel Sharif has left for Afghanistan.

Well now its all upto Dr Ashraf Ghani govt,either he will have to be sincere and give up NDS activities or admit that he has no hold over NDS activities.

Together we can defeat the talibs on either side of the border,and Dr Ashraf Ghani is honest but is Abdullah x2 also?will they have control over the NDS activities?is a big question

There is no point pointing fingers at Afghanistan when the PA is using the Taliban as proxies against them.
Just a few days ago Gen Musharraf threatened a proxy war in Afghanistan.

barangai
17 Dec 14,, 12:41
There is no point pointing fingers at Afghanistan when the PA is using the Taliban as proxies against them.
Just a few days ago Gen Musharraf threatened a proxy war in Afghanistan.

Musharaf is not only in the govt but also under treason trial.So today,his words perhaps matter not more than the words of Zaid hamid

NDS is not under the Afghanistan govt but now run by Tajik lords,they report to the govt but govt has no control over its activities.It is no secret that NDS aided Latif Mehsud until he was captured by ISAF.They are still giving space to Fazlullah and Omar Khorsani.Fazlullah has recently escaped a drone strikes inside afghanistan territory by CIA.

The Present Govt is not only sincere,and we are looking forward for good relations

barangai
17 Dec 14,, 12:48
ISLAMABAD: Army chief General Raheel Sharif rushed to Kabul on Wednesday to deliver a warning to Afghan authorities to take decisive action against sanctuaries of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) or else Pakistan would go for ‘hot pursuit.’

General Raheel is traveling to the Afghan capital after security agencies found evidence that the Peshawar attack, which killed 141 people, including 132 children, was planned inside Afghanistan by the Mullah Fazlullah group.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/808187/hand-over-fazlullah-army-chief-set-to-tell-kabul/

zraver
17 Dec 14,, 14:04
So rather than clean up its own house, Pakistan is looking for an external scapegoat again.... the kids died in vain.

antimony
17 Dec 14,, 15:14
COAS Raheel Sharif has left for Afghanistan.

Well now its all upto Dr Ashraf Ghani govt,either he will have to be sincere and give up NDS activities or admit that he has no hold over NDS activities.

Together we can defeat the talibs on either side of the border,and Dr Ashraf Ghani is honest but is Abdullah x2 also?will they have control over the NDS activities?is a big question

So you have already decided that this was all masterminded by the NDS? Probably the Indian hand is also lurking behind?

I can see Raheel Sharif asking for cooperation but this instant fault assi

For heaven's sake, 132 kids are dead and a group of bastards have claimed responsibility. Is it not important to go after them rather than searching for the foreign hand?

barangai
17 Dec 14,, 15:25
Nothing sort of this,Afghanistan helped is required to eliminate the leadership of TTP in Afghanistan while at home we are expanding the operation.

Leadership is everything,otherwise until now we already have killed more than 29k militants in the past decade but a single blow of leadership result in significant reduction in terrorist activities

umairch
17 Dec 14,, 17:29
Comm intercepts of the calls were tracked to Afghanistan & Kabul. We had 2 ELINT planes in the air alongside a 3CI configured Herc in the air during the op yesterday. We have also apprehended NDS agents in NWA over the past few months. Their is no finger pointing. The forces are going after all Taliban (as of today the distinction is moot officially) & we have locations of TTP camps in Kunar, Nooristan etc & who facilitates whom where & we've told Afghanistan we will act on our side & give you the information needed to act at your end. The President Mr Ghani has assured full cooperation of his govt & forces to Gen Raheel. This is straight from a brigadier level officer in our JSHQ who I have no reason to doubt & current as of this evening. We are angry, very angry & we mean business!

barangai
17 Dec 14,, 18:55
Leadership is what matters the most,we already have killed more than 29k militants and sacrified thousand of soldiers.But as long as the leaders are alive and keep on planning,we will be short of our mission

Fazlullah is the worst of all,he's the only non pashtun leader of TTP so far,basically a gujjar but still the media outlets believe him to be Yousufzai


PESHAWAR: The chief of the outlawed Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) has escaped a US drone strike in Afghanistan’s Nangarhar province close to the border with Pakistan, officials said Tuesday.

Highly placed intelligence sources had told Dawn.com that the unmanned aircraft fired four missiles on a compound in Nazyan village in southeastern Afghanistan Monday night, killing at least five Pakistani and Afghan militants near the Pak-Afghan border.

Sources said intelligence reports suggested Mullah Fazllulah had been in the area near the zero-line for over a day. The strike was aimed at targeting the militant chief but he narrowly escaped, they said.

Mullah Fazlullah escapes drone strike near Pak-Afghan border: sources - Home - DAWN.COM (http://www.dawn.com/news/1146806)

antimony
17 Dec 14,, 19:54
Nothing sort of this,Afghanistan helped is required to eliminate the leadership of TTP in Afghanistan while at home we are expanding the operation.

Leadership is everything,otherwise until now we already have killed more than 29k militants in the past decade but a single blow of leadership result in significant reduction in terrorist activities


Nothing sort of this,Afghanistan helped is required to eliminate the leadership of TTP in Afghanistan while at home we are expanding the operation.

Leadership is everything,otherwise until now we already have killed more than 29k militants in the past decade but a single blow of leadership result in significant reduction in terrorist activities

Is this going to be reduction of all terrorist activities or those of the "bad terrorists"

I have been going through Pakistani media throughout yesterday. Here is a snippet from one of the talk shows "Live with Shahid Masood". Dr. Shahis Massod is one of the higher profile talk show hosts in Pakistan and would probably be termed as "quasi liberal" compared to others.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2coss9_gen-hamid-gul-live-with-shahid-masood-16-december-2014-session-2_news

For those who do not understand Urdu, this is what happens. The anchor equates the barbarism yesterday with everyday murders in Karachi, rails against something/ someone called "liberal fascists" (as I understood, those who decry religious extremism). then he brings in as a guest the (in)famous Hamid Gul, who stresses the importance of a "war about ideas" and the need to understand why the Taliban killed little children (because their own children were killed in drone attacks). Oh, and at around the 13:50 mark, he says this in English - "Khorasani, he is a proper India Agent" (but of course).

If this is the introspection that Pakistan is going to do, instead of hauling up those who support and abait any kind of terrorist (good or bad), then I am sorry to say we will see more of this sort of sickening things in Pakistan.

And that would be horrible, since innocent civilians, especially children, are not just Pakistanis, they are south Asians and human beings at the end.

1980s
17 Dec 14,, 20:35
So rather than clean up its own house, Pakistan is looking for an external scapegoat again.... the kids died in vain.

I've been noticing the same thing. Many Pakistanis seem desperate to find a conspiracy and external force behind this carnage even though the source of all this is right under their own noses.

I posted this article in a thread of its own last month: BBC News - The school that says Osama Bin Laden was a hero (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30005278)

Pakistanis should read it carefully and let the truth sink in. There are thousands of such 'schools' in their country that have been churning out this peculiarly "Pakistani" vision of jihad for decades now.

How can any responsible country allow a terror center like the "red mosque" seminary, which once had to be put down by force by the army, be allowed to re-open itself again and resume business as usual as if nothing had ever happened there? And this in their capital city no less.

For a start, why dont they close that f*cking 'school' down for good, and all others like it?

What good is a military assault on tribal villages when future terrorists are being groomed in seminaries all over their country, including their capital city?

I have to concur with zraver, these kids sadly died in vain.

barangai
17 Dec 14,, 20:56
Is this going to be reduction of all terrorist activities or those of the "bad terrorists"

I have been going through Pakistani media throughout yesterday. Here is a snippet from one of the talk shows "Live with Shahid Masood". Dr. Shahis Massod is one of the higher profile talk show hosts in Pakistan and would probably be termed as "quasi liberal" compared to others.


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2coss9_gen-hamid-gul-live-with-shahid-masood-16-december-2014-session-2_news

For those who do not understand Urdu, this is what happens. The anchor equates the barbarism yesterday with everyday murders in Karachi, rails against something/ someone called "liberal fascists" (as I understood, those who decry religious extremism). then he brings in as a guest the (in)famous Hamid Gul, who stresses the importance of a "war about ideas" and the need to understand why the Taliban killed little children (because their own children were killed in drone attacks). Oh, and at around the 13:50 mark, he says this in English - "Khorasani, he is a proper India Agent" (but of course).

If this is the introspection that Pakistan is going to do, instead of hauling up those who support and abait any kind of terrorist (good or bad), then I am sorry to say we will see more of this sort of sickening things in Pakistan.

And that would be horrible, since innocent civilians, especially children, are not just Pakistanis, they are south Asians and human beings at the end.

First of all,they are not part of the govt.We do know we have a completely different COAS this time.He's least influenced by Zia Era Islamism.

I have followed Zarbeazb way too closely,recently in Pakistani airstrikes Haqqani Group members and hafiz Gul bahadur group members were targeted.


PESHAWAR: Airstrikes have killed at least 30 militants, including “important commanders” of a local warlord, in North Waziristan where the military launched a major offensive this year, officials and militant sources said Monday.
The target of the late Sunday strikes, in the Datta Khel area of North Waziristan, were local warlords Hafiz Gul Bahadur and his ally Sadiq Noor, security officials said.
Both are aligned with the feared Haqqani network and are accused of sending fighters and suicide bombers against US and Nato troops in neighbouring Afghanistan.
“At least 30 militants have been killed. Dozens of fighters and commanders were gathered for a joint meeting of both the groups,” a militant source told AFP.
An intelligence official in the area confirmed the strikes and the death toll.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/803516/key-commanders-among-at-least-30-killed-in-north-waziristan-airstrikes/

Anyway,Hamid Mir reply to indian anchor




http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2csc09_hamid-mir-made-indian-journalist-speechless-while-talking-on-peshawar-attack_news

barangai
17 Dec 14,, 20:58
I've been noticing the same thing. Many Pakistanis seem desperate to find a conspiracy and external force behind this carnage even though the source of all this is right under their own noses.

I posted this article in a thread of its own last month: BBC News - The school that says Osama Bin Laden was a hero (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30005278)

Pakistanis should read it carefully and let the truth sink in. There are thousands of such 'schools' in their country that have been churning out this peculiarly "Pakistani" vision of jihad for decades now.

How can any responsible country allow a terror center like the "red mosque" seminary, which once had to be put down by force by the army, be allowed to re-open itself again and resume business as usual as if nothing had ever happened there? And this in their capital city no less.

For a start, why dont they close that f*cking 'school' down for good, and all others like it?

What good is a military assault on tribal villages when future terrorists are being groomed in seminaries all over their country, including their capital city?

I have to concur with zraver, these kids sadly died in vain.

I agree about this part,but it is a gradual process.ultimate goal should be either complete banning of Madrassah's or allowing only registered madrassah's with registered students

Sadly Maulana Abdul Aziz is still alive and was yesterday again spreading his BS of them being not taliban and all this stupid stuff.Musharaf should had killed him from the beginning.

antimony
17 Dec 14,, 21:10
First of all,they are not part of the govt.We do know we have a completely different COAS this time.He's least influenced by Zia Era Islamism.

I have followed Zarbeazb way too closely,recently in Pakistani airstrikes Haqqani Group members and hafiz Gul bahadur group members were targeted.


So they are going to stop distinguishing between good and bad taliban. Will they also stop the distinguishing between good and bad terrorists?



http://tribune.com.pk/story/803516/key-commanders-among-at-least-30-killed-in-north-waziristan-airstrikes/

Anyway,Hamid Mir reply to indian anchor




http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2csc09_hamid-mir-made-indian-journalist-speechless-while-talking-on-peshawar-attack_news

At 1:40, Hamid Mir says that it has ben printed in the newspapers that the Khorasani group gets money from India. Right, continue that obsession and see where it leads you.

barangai
17 Dec 14,, 21:16
So they are going to stop distinguishing between good and bad taliban. Will they also stop the distinguishing between good and bad terrorists?



At 1:40, Hamid Mir says that it has ben printed in the newspapers that the Khorasani group gets money from India. Right, continue that obsession and see where it leads you.

Well sir,you must have to understand this,We as the citizen of Pakistan-India are indeed close.But we must admit that both countries today are into proxy war including in Afghanistan.

I don't like this blame game and i also believe in action within our own house.As i believe as long as we don't accept the fact that the problem is within us,we won't overcome terrorism.

Firestorm
17 Dec 14,, 22:49
Firstly, my heartfelt condolences to the families of the victims of this horrific atrocity. May they have the strength to endure their loss.



Army chief shares intelligence on terrorists with Kabul – The Express Tribune (http://tribune.com.pk/story/808187/hand-over-fazlullah-army-chief-set-to-tell-kabul/)

"ISLAMABAD: Army chief General Raheel Sharif rushed to Kabul on Wednesday to deliver a warning to Afghan authorities to take decisive action against sanctuaries of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) or else Pakistan would go for ‘hot pursuit.’"

"COAS Raheel Sharif has left for Afghanistan.

Well now its all upto Dr Ashraf Ghani govt,either he will have to be sincere and give up NDS activities or admit that he has no hold over NDS activities."



Pakistan should resist from making such incendiary statements. Such statements only worsen the security situation in the region. They should merely present any evidence they have of specific individuals inside Afghanistan who were involved in this attack. After that the Afghan authorities will arrest and prosecute them if the evidence is good. Let the law then take its course. Any such individuals, if present are non-state actors and the Afghan govt. and NDS aren't responsible for any of them.

Before you accuse Afghanistan or Afghans of aiding terrorists please realize that Afghanistan itself is a victim of terror for several years and is a frontline ally in the war on terror.

Instead, Pakistan should focus on solving the underlying problems of the Tribal areas needing more autonomy and solving the issue of the Durand line with Afghanistan, along with poverty, illetracy etc. which lead to these kinds of attacks.

zraver
17 Dec 14,, 23:14
then he brings in as a guest the (in)famous Hamid Gul, who stresses the importance of a "war about ideas" and the need to understand why the Taliban killed little children (because their own children were killed in drone attacks).

This is something that the Western Press at least is missing. Normally under the Pashtunwali women and kids are off limits even in a blood feud. But Paksitani artillery strikes (not drones) have killed so many women and children that this likely got discarded. The Pashtunwali is very much an eye for an eye system and to not seek revenge in kind is a form of moral failure. To them it is good and right to kill kids in turn for their kids being killed. Shirt of some sort of Pashtun tribal leader emerging with the gravitas to bring the Taliban to the table (and being able to actually restrain them) and a commitment by the Pakistani government to pay the blood price peace is not possible.

I don't think that leader exists and the GoP is not going to pay that blood price. This is going to be a generational conflict... Its not about Pakistan vs Afghanistan, its not about Islam or even Islam v West/US, its about Pashtun v Punjabi.

Firestorm
17 Dec 14,, 23:20
This is something that the Western Press at least is missing. Normally under the Pashtunwali women and kids are off limits even in a blood feud. But Paksitani artillery strikes (not drones) have killed so many women and children that this likely got discarded. The Pashtunwali is very much an eye for an eye system and to not seek revenge in kind is a form of moral failure. To them it is good and right to kill kids in turn for their kids being killed. Shirt of some sort of Pashtun tribal leader emerging with the gravitas to bring the Taliban to the table (and being able to actually restrain them) and a commitment by the Pakistani government to pay the blood price peace is not possible.


There was a thread about Operation Zarb-e-Azb here, back when it started with a bang. At the time, when the images of devasted towns and villages came out, Captain LT and others had questioned the wisdom of using heavy artillery and air-strikes to level entire towns to fight what was essentially a COIN operation on your own soil. The pakistani members had defended those tactics back then, even as they were producing large numbers of refugees. Pretty sure they will still defend them even now.

1980s
17 Dec 14,, 23:41
I don't think that leader exists and the GoP is not going to pay that blood price. This is going to be a generational conflict... Its not about Pakistan vs Afghanistan, its not about Islam or even Islam v West/US, its about Pashtun v Punjabi.

Im not sure if its reached that point yet, but things look like they're moving that way. The attack on the Indo-Pak border crossing was certainly a symbolic assault on Punjab by one of the splinter factions of the former TTP. But for now, things largely seem to be a tribal Pashtuns vs urban Pashtuns thing, rather than a Pashtun vs Punjabi conflict.

My impression is that much of the settled Pashtun population of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa and northern Balochistan is integrated to quite an extent into the Punjabi dominated framework of Pakistan. They have their local concerns and some degree of sub/ethnic nationalism, but they still appear largely pro-Pakistan.

Tribal Pashtuns OTHO appear to have no genuine loyalty to Pakistan as a state or even an idea and are definitely not integrated on the whole. Their loyalties seem to be to their tribe first, their common Pashtun heritage second, and their "guests" third. But nothing really after that. No wonder then, that tribal Pashtuns never take their "peace" treaties with Pakistan seriously (just like Pakistan doesnt take them seriously either), dont respect Pakistani laws, and those of them that have fled to far away cities have ghettoized themselves in places Karachi where they engage in segregation, extortian and ethnic conflict with Pakistanis. Even when living in urban Pakistan, their loyalties are still clearly tribal, then ethnic, but never to the state, apparently. This seems to be true also of the Baluchis.

antimony
18 Dec 14,, 00:27
Well sir,you must have to understand this,We as the citizen of Pakistan-India are indeed close.But we must admit that both countries today are into proxy war including in Afghanistan.

I am sorry but why should India admit to a proxy war in Afghanistan? If Pakistan is doing that and wants to come clean that is their issue



I don't like this blame game and i also believe in action within our own house.As i believe as long as we don't accept the fact that the problem is within us,we won't overcome terrorism.

I agree with this statement. But we still see Hafiz Saeed blaming India and calling for revenge. Also, here is something I would attract your attention to - known Talib sympathizer Hamid Gul and others are already trying to deflect the blame away from the Talibs and towards India/ Afghanistan. This is not going to help you punish the perps.

antimony
18 Dec 14,, 00:28
There was a thread about Operation Zarb-e-Azb here, back when it started with a bang. At the time, when the images of devasted towns and villages came out, Captain LT and others had questioned the wisdom of using heavy artillery and air-strikes to level entire towns to fight what was essentially a COIN operation on your own soil. The pakistani members had defended those tactics back then, even as they were producing large numbers of refugees. Pretty sure they will still defend them even now.

I second this. We have dealt with terrorism and insurgency, never had to use Artillery and air power on our own countrymen

zraver
18 Dec 14,, 03:36
Im not sure if its reached that point yet, but things look like they're moving that way.

I think it has, too many dead Pashtun women and children, killed by Punjabi artillery... I think its now an ethnic blood feud. Similar to the Pashtun v everyone else in Afghanistan. It took a Loya jigra headed by the former Afghan King to (kind of) end that blood feud. There is no one in Pakistan with that kind of gravitas.

Neo
18 Dec 14,, 04:02
Their barbarism knows no bounds.

My deepest sympathies to the families of those who perished :frown:

We are shocked and deeply saddened by this tragedy which has shaken the entire nation. This is madness and it must stop!

Neo
18 Dec 14,, 04:14
What you give is what you get... that's the concept Pakistan would never learn.

Indeed, what you give is what you get.
Your time to learn will come too...eventually.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AENmYb6M1zw


They cheered when innocents died in the similar attack in India in 26/11.

Indians are rejoicing and celebrating the death of these kids on twitter, facebook, Indian fora and commenting in Pakistani newspapers. So please cut the I am holier than thou crap.

Neo
18 Dec 14,, 04:19
160 kids. That's a lot of future Engineers, Doctors, Scientists, Agriculturists, Humanitarians, Billionaires murdered. I know the PA is capable, I just wish they put an end to all of these mindless killings.

You are right, PA has been very successful in FATA with Operations Zarb e Azb and Khyber-1 and as the TTP stated, they killed the children to avenge the losses at their end.

I hope we'll intensify these operations and launch new ones to clean up Peshawar, Quetta and Karachi.

Neo
18 Dec 14,, 04:26
Can we please stop with the finger-pointing and scoring brownie points out of a sad incident? For fucks sake, 160 KIDS have been killed. How can some of you be so insensitive? Pathetic and retarded.

Thank you, I was just about to say something simmilar. Some people never grow up. They are all over the electrinic media promoting their own agenda. Shame on these pathetic hatemongers!

Neo
18 Dec 14,, 04:39
Which Taliban are you referring too,... the Haqqanis, the TTP or the Mullah Omar faction?
- Mullah Omar's group is still used as PA proxies in Afghanistan
- Haqqani's have more or tell gone against the PA and we all know about the TTP.

All of them are being targeted in Waziristan including the Haqqanis by PA as well as by US drones. Their IED making infrastructure is mainly located there and most of it is gone hence we haven't seen a major attack of months.

The day after the carnage Coas Raheel Shareef went to Kabul. This clearly means where the support is coming from.

Neo
18 Dec 14,, 04:52
COAS Raheel Sharif has left for Afghanistan.

Well now its all upto Dr Ashraf Ghani govt,either he will have to be sincere and give up NDS activities or admit that he has no hold over NDS activities.

Together we can defeat the talibs on either side of the border,and Dr Ashraf Ghani is honest but is Abdullah x2 also?will they have control over the NDS activities?is a big question

Ghani is our man in Kabul, more so than Abdullah
Abdullah but both of them want peace in Afghanistan and so do we. Unlike Karzai, Abdullah is not a castrated foreign supported puppet but he is a nationalist and a war lord. He understands the ground realities and will be cooperative with us.

Neo
18 Dec 14,, 05:00
So you have already decided that this was all masterminded by the NDS? Probably the Indian hand is also lurking behind?

I can see Raheel Sharif asking for cooperation but this instant fault assi

For heaven's sake, 132 kids are dead and a group of bastards have claimed responsibility. Is it not important to go after them rather than searching for the foreign hand?

TTP's domestic infrastructure is destroyed and it!s leadership is roaming freely in Afghanistan. Obviously we have to look on both sides.

antimony
18 Dec 14,, 05:53
Indians are rejoicing and celebrating the death of these kids on twitter, facebook, Indian fora and commenting in Pakistani newspapers. So please cut the I am holier than thou crap.

Your sense of victimhood knows no bounds. Nearly all Indians I know in real life, social media, wherever, is shocked and outrage, especially since this is against kids.

ONE out of all my acquaintances said something about Karma, and everyone else I know (yes, those dirty bania hindoo bharatiyas, who apparently are 1/10th of pakistanis) promptly blasted him. India, for the most part, is shocked and outraged, and a little bit scared. Indian school children across the country shed tears for their brethren across the border. Yes, there might be weirdos here and there who are feeling smug. But as far and wide as I have seen, they are a very, very small minority. But you see what you want to see.

I can imagine what your country's reaction would be to a terrorist attack in India, so you imagine everyone else would also be overjoyed at the loss of civilian life.

Sorry to say, but your sense of outrage is false, as even in this tragedy sections of your society are finding ways to actually shift the blame away from the Taliban and onto "foreign hands".

Officer of Engineers
18 Dec 14,, 06:04
They just got hit and is in pain. They're lashing out.

667medic
18 Dec 14,, 06:08
Indeed, what you give is what you get.
Your time to learn will come too...eventually.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AENmYb6M1zw



Indians are rejoicing and celebrating the death of these kids on twitter, facebook, Indian fora and commenting in Pakistani newspapers. So please cut the I am holier than thou crap.

Cut the crap, just because people state the obvious that Paks are paying for their sin in the form of blood of their children is not rejoicing, it is stating the obvious, which BTW the Paks still don't seem to get. The LET boss who orchestrated the Mumbai attacks was treated as a hero just a few days ago in Lahore, what do you have to say about that.

I feel sad that the children died in vain......

667medic
18 Dec 14,, 06:13
They just got hit and is in pain. They're lashing out.

They refuse to let the pain they caused to others to heal. The bastard who orchestrated the Mumbai attack roams around freely and is even felicitated a few days ago in one of their major cities. I have lost even the little respect I had for this country. One would expect such a serious even to cause a lot of introspection but we only see the usual blame game. WTF is their military commander visiting Afghanistan for, he should instead visit the ISI headquarters and grab the chief by his balls...

Officer of Engineers
18 Dec 14,, 06:19
You're expecting them to see logically at this point? Going to ISI HQ ain't going to solve anything. In Afghanistan, they can at least know what they Afghans know or do not know about the TTP.

667medic
18 Dec 14,, 06:37
Taliban suicide attack on Afghan bank kills 10 - World - DAWN.COM (http://www.dawn.com/news/1151411/taliban-suicide-attack-on-afghan-bank-kills-10)

BTW there is no let up in the activities of the "good" Taliban......

barangai
18 Dec 14,, 06:46
This is something that the Western Press at least is missing. Normally under the Pashtunwali women and kids are off limits even in a blood feud. But Paksitani artillery strikes (not drones) have killed so many women and children that this likely got discarded. The Pashtunwali is very much an eye for an eye system and to not seek revenge in kind is a form of moral failure. To them it is good and right to kill kids in turn for their kids being killed. Shirt of some sort of Pashtun tribal leader emerging with the gravitas to bring the Taliban to the table (and being able to actually restrain them) and a commitment by the Pakistani government to pay the blood price peace is not possible.

I don't think that leader exists and the GoP is not going to pay that blood price. This is going to be a generational conflict... Its not about Pakistan vs Afghanistan, its not about Islam or even Islam v West/US, its about Pashtun v Punjabi.


Sorry my friend but this is something everyone is against now be them pashtuns or punjabi.The other part is that people believe that just because the school is run by army,so it must be having army related family students.This is not true,as not even 10% of them had army origins.90% of them were pashtuns including of those we have heard of names and seen on Media.

Why they striked childrens?because onwards the zarbeazb,talibs got serious blow to its capabilities and has lost the strength aswell.They had to stage something to show power by targeting a soft target.

barangai
18 Dec 14,, 06:55
I am sorry but why should India admit to a proxy war in Afghanistan? If Pakistan is doing that and wants to come clean that is their issue



I agree with this statement. But we still see Hafiz Saeed blaming India and calling for revenge. Also, here is something I would attract your attention to - known Talib sympathizer Hamid Gul and others are already trying to deflect the blame away from the Talibs and towards India/ Afghanistan. This is not going to help you punish the perps.

Sorry my friend but i beg to differ,now i don't have any media source's but i had heard in person from IDPs of Waziristan that Uzbeks are indian agent.I had repeatedly told them that they are from afghanistan and uzbekistan but they could not agree,and yes i am talking about a teacher of a school in waziristan.

I don't like this blame game but saying that India is all pure and the evil is only Pakistan is not true.

Sir,you know every country has its share of stupid and hate promoting stupids,such as for the time being hafeez saeed and zaid hamid in our case,Subramanian swami and Shiv sena guys in india case.

barangai
18 Dec 14,, 06:58
Good development,thank God we got Ashraf Ghani in Afghanistan now.


Pakistan has secured a crucial assurance from Kabul and the US-led International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) regarding elimination of sanctuaries of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) on Afghan soil a day after the grisly violence at the Army Public School and College in Peshawar.

Kabul, ISAF promise action against TTP sanctuaries – The Express Tribune (http://tribune.com.pk/story/808780/kabul-isaf-promise-action-against-ttp-sanctuaries/)

barangai
18 Dec 14,, 07:01
Musharaf


https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=673840156066337&set=vb.420555811394774&type=2&theater

antimony
18 Dec 14,, 07:12
They just got hit and is in pain. They're lashing out.

They are in pain and lashing out? Maybe guys like Neo and Barangai, not the deep state chaps.

In the video I shared, that Taliban apologist Hamid Gul spent the better part of his time justifying the motivation of the Taliban (their children were killed) and the rest claiming that India was behind this. Do you not see what is going on? Anger towards the TTP is being directed towards the "foreign hand" so that public anger also gets diverted away.

If Pakistanis were really riled up, they should have first kicked the Taliban apologists in the face.

Officer of Engineers
18 Dec 14,, 07:14
When 11 Sept happened, our first look was towards Saddam.

lemontree
18 Dec 14,, 08:02
The Present Govt is not only sincere,and we are looking forward for good relations

We hope that this sentiment translates on the ground and Taliban attacks on Afghan civilians and military will stop.
However, the feelers we are getting is that many in Pakistan are trying desperately to link India to this massacre, which is a real shame and defeats everything.

antimony
18 Dec 14,, 08:29
When 11 Sept happened, our first look was towards Saddam.

I am aware of that. But here the Talibs have already claimed responsibility, given the reason why and have even provided details of the perps on ground. How much more info does one need. The Taliban apologists are trying to soften the anger in spite of that.

Unlike others in my country, I do not have the expectation that they will suddenly turn anti JUD or anti Hafiz Saeed just because of this. There is no reason to expect that. I even have trouble expecting that they will turn anti Afghan Taliban after this. The victimhood and fundamentalist mentalities are entrenched too deep for that. But who really suffers? The kids:mad:

Dk__
18 Dec 14,, 08:41
Afghan Taliban releases statement condemning attack on Pakistani school (http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2014/12/afghan_taliban_relea.php)

Dk__
18 Dec 14,, 09:23
ISLAMABAD: Army chief General Raheel Sharif rushed to Kabul on Wednesday to deliver a warning to Afghan authorities to take decisive action against sanctuaries of the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) or else Pakistan would go for ‘hot pursuit.’

General Raheel is traveling to the Afghan capital after security agencies found evidence that the Peshawar attack, which killed 141 people, including 132 children, was planned inside Afghanistan by the Mullah Fazlullah group.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/808187/hand-over-fazlullah-army-chief-set-to-tell-kabul/

Pakistan should provide any evidence they have of the alleged presence of TTP leadership on the other side of Durand Line to the Afghan Government instead of making threats of attacking Afghanistan which is not conductive to peace in the region. They should realize that Afghanistan is also the victim of islamic terrorism by Al-Qaeda and Taliban for past many decades just like Pakistan and is a front line ally fighting against Jihadi militants.

Both Pakistan and Afghanistan should resolve the issue of Durrand line which is radicalizing youth on both side of the line. Also both countries should pursue peace to eradicate scourges of poverty and illiteracy which is driving youth into extremism.

Monash
18 Dec 14,, 09:37
Unilateral large scale, long term attacks/incursions into Afghanistan aren't on the cards. Smaller co-operative efforts are another matter and would be very useful if they were sustained - but that's a big if! Apart from stretching Pakistan's military capacity to the limit in the face of current commitments they also would face political isolation by the international community. This trip is all about face saving i.e. trying to convince Pakistani citizens that the fault lies with foreign radicals and not domestic groups. Sadly I don't see all elements of the Pakistani Government and Intelligence community coming to grips with what is a domestic problem of their own making unless and until these kind of atrocities start being repeated on a regualr basis i.e. when they have absolutely, have no other f#@*&!g choice. After all the children of the elites can always be educated overseas - that will solve the immediate problem. :mad:

Double Edge
18 Dec 14,, 13:18
The other part is that people believe that just because the school is run by army,so it must be having army related family students.This is not true,as not even 10% of them had army origins.90% of them were pashtuns including of those we have heard of names and seen on Media.
So what can one gauge by their choice of this school ? Any school is ok so long as enough numbers can be had and are not as highly defended.


Why they striked childrens?because onwards the zarbeazb,talibs got serious blow to its capabilities and has lost the strength aswell.They had to stage something to show power by targeting a soft target.
That was my first reaction. payback for n.waziristan. Another Beslan.

artillery & f-16 strikes are going to leads to lots of collateral damage and unfortunately blow back.

zraver
18 Dec 14,, 14:37
Sorry my friend but this is something everyone is against now be them pashtuns or punjabi.

Then why will the attacks continue?



The other part is that people believe that just because the school is run by army,so it must be having army related family students.

I didn't make that claim. I am claiming Pakistan has a blood feud going between two ethnic groups- about middle distance between Northern Ireland and Rwanda. Just watch, more attacks and no wide spread support for the GoP in the tribal areas.

Oracle
18 Dec 14,, 15:18
Something that everybody knows - Pakistan's Tolerance of Jihadis Backfires Badly (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/husain-haqqani/pakistan-school-attack-jihadis_b_6337112.html?ir=India)

Cactus
18 Dec 14,, 15:29
I don't like this blame game but saying that India is all pure and the evil is only Pakistan is not true.

If you had blamed Indians for Shia militants in Gilgit/Baltistan or the Leftist "Jiyo Sindh" movement, it would have been plausible. Indians have a history of doing it (Bangladesh liberation), and they have operationally-secure access to those regions (just across the Indo-Pak border). Blaming the Indians for the separatist movement in Baluchistan is a bit of a stretch (a. they don't have land access to Baluchistan for follow-up actions, b. it would hurt their relations with Iran [which is also having trouble with Baluchi separatists], and c. Baluchistan is too sparsely populated to survive as an independent nation); but if someone is feeling particularly anti-India, they may buy it for a second. But Indians running the hard-core Sunni Islamists of the Tarek-i-Taliban of Pakistan? That is like someone from India saying that the wacko Hindu outfits like Bajrang Dal and Sri Ram Sene are run by the Pakistani ISI! No one is saying that Indians are pure. What we are saying is that in the case of TTP and associated Sunni Islamist organizations, you are barking up the wrong tree.

kuku
18 Dec 14,, 15:31
Exactly what option does Pakistan has if not to be tolerant of Jihadists?


"The question being widely asked is whether Pakistan's military and political leaders can transform grief and outrage into a clear policy that would rid the country of its reputation as both a victim of and magnet for terrorists."

Pakistan barely has enough money to function as a nation, how on earth is it supposed to fight terrorists? If i was Pakistan co-operating with terror groups and ensuring they have enough political power to not take up arms would have been a very attractive option.

Unfortunatly i doubt the people who run Pakistan care, the political and military leadership seem to be very rich and well off, with all their kids in Oxford, Caltech etc. etc....
The people of Pakistan seem to be too busy killing each other.

I can not even talk about the kids who died, for i fear for the many more who will loose their lives, all the ordinary people of this world want is peace and security, enough to raise a family and die with honour, that seems too much for this world to give.......

commander
18 Dec 14,, 16:26
Sigh, Pakistan needs to introspect and stop blaming others for it's own misfortunes and blood feud. Nobody came and danced in streets in India when those kids were killed, there might have been some cyber schmucks who said Karma is a bitch. But judging how Pakistani's are reacting now I wonder there is absolutely nothing else that will make them realize this is their own demon that turned it's sides. Even now according to NS their focus is on Good and Bad Taliban but not the other terrorist groups. What's worse today citing lack of evidence they gave bail to one of the 26/11 masterminds. What the actual fuck ? You know what... fuck you guys and fuck your country and fuck your military and every fucking asshole who is feeding of those innocent kids bloods. You guys are fucking worse than vultures. Even as an Indian I feel the lose of lives and yet you guys are fuckinng harping on Indian hand behind them.

Any sensible Pakistani will be packing his bags to leave the country but even then they carry a lot of baggage with the identity of being a citizen of a terrorist state and they can never live a honest life anywhere and the package will always haunt them. I can only feel sorry for those innocent and not for those assholes that attended the rally of Hafiz Saeed.

Oracle
18 Dec 14,, 18:00
Sigh, Pakistan needs to introspect and stop blaming others for it's own misfortunes and blood feud. Nobody came and danced in streets in India when those kids were killed, there might have been some cyber schmucks who said Karma is a bitch.

Really? What was that?


Sad indeed, they tasted their own medicine and hope the nation recovers from this loss and wakes up the reality of terrorism in their country rather than blame India for alll of their misfortunes. Kids shouldn't have been involved in this, their army would have been justified,but not innocent kids.

commander
18 Dec 14,, 18:03
Really? What was that?

I said they tasted their own medicine of terrorism. I didn't jump out of my seat shouting "Yay 140 kids died in Pakistan !!!! It's time to celebrate lets open a beer and partaaayyyy" .. understand the difference between pointing out where they went wrong and being schmuck about the death of many kids. I too am saddened by the death of innocent kids. I made it clear. Man you are just trying to frame me bad and you haven't understood what my intention was. If you couldn't differentiate between the two you seriously need to check it again. :slap:

Firestorm
18 Dec 14,, 18:08
NPR OnPoint discussion about this tragedy: A Deadly Taliban Attack On A Pakistani School | On Point with Tom Ashbrook (http://onpoint.wbur.org/2014/12/17/deadly-peshawar-attack-schoolchildren-students)

Carlotta Gall is one of the guests. She says quite unambiguously that the Pakistani establishment should look at its own policies of trying to use Jihadis against Afghanistan and India if they are searching for something to blame. Daniel Markey from the Council on Foreign relations agrees with her.

The entire discussion is worth listening to. There is a Taha Siddiqui reporting from Pakistan as well and gauging the public reaction.

Oracle
18 Dec 14,, 18:09
I said they tasted their own medicine of terrorism. I didn't jump out of my seat shouting "Yay 140 kids died in Pakistan !!!! It's time to celebrate lets open a beer and partaaayyyy" .. understand the difference between pointing out where they went wrong and being schmuck about the death of many kids. I too am saddened by the death of innocent kids. I made it clear. Man you are just trying to frame me bad and you haven't understood what my intention was. If you couldn't differentiate between the two you seriously need to check it again. :slap:

Why couldn't you just feel sorry for the kids? Ofcourse you jumped out of your seat and you even cherished that with that post. Your posts in this forum backs that up. I don't need to check anything, you're a Hindutva warrior, who seeks apology when questioned and cornered, and hide behind facts (okay I don't know, okay I didn't knew that, okay I will give proof tomorrow). Are you wilfully being obtuse?

commander
18 Dec 14,, 18:18
Why couldn't you just feel sorry for the kids? Ofcourse you jumped out of your seat and you even cherished that with that post. Your posts in this forum backs that up. I don't need to check anything, you're a Hindutva warrior, who seeks apology when questioned and cornered, and hide behind facts (okay I don't know, okay I didn't knew that, okay I will give proof tomorrow). Are you wilfully being obtuse?

Dude, I don't have to explain myself to you, first of all. I felt sorry for the kids and made sure I point it out. This is exactly what I call stereotyping, the moment I talk about Hindu's you call me a Hindutva warrior. I don't fault you the whole community has been trained for that and it proves that I am correct in that. I merely pointed out that although I feel sorry for the kids nothing will change if they keep on blaming India for it. So do you agree with them that India/foreign powers were behind the killings and not their own fault. Then you got some serious problems man.. You always can only name call people as troll,unpatriotic and hindutva warrior and whatnot. I don't give a damn about what you think. I seriously had enough of you man. Call me whatever you want I don't give a flying fuck.

Oracle
18 Dec 14,, 18:30
Dude, I don't have to explain myself to you, first of all. I felt sorry for the kids and made sure I point it out.

You do, you have a lot of explaining to do. You have not passed those comments in isolation. You did in this very board, and made sure you rub salts into their wounds. Kids being dead, and your comments. What if your family or relatives were killed in a terrorist incident? Would you be making the same comments?


This is exactly what I call stereotyping, the moment I talk about Hindu's you call me a Hindutva warrior. I don't fault you the whole community has been trained for that and it proves that I am correct in that.

Stereotyping? For the insensitive comments you made. Pray, that the Staff in here are open minded and haven't taken any action. Doesn't mean, others would let it go.


I merely pointed out that although I feel sorry for the kids nothing will change if they keep on blaming India for it.

You didn't merely point that out. You made it a tit-for-tat happening.


So do you agree with them that India/foreign powers were behind the killings and not their own fault. Then you got some serious problems man..

Don't you dare point fingers at me, when it's clear even to Pak authorities that TTP is behind the attacks. Don't you even read?


You always can only name call people as troll,unpatriotic and hindutva warrior and whatnot. I don't give a damn about what you think. I seriously had enough of you man. Call me whatever you want I don't give a flying fuck.

Besides all, you're ignorant. You give out statements, but cannot back it up. You wanted a whole village in W.B. to fight with 2 revolver wielding women, and your accusations included the whole village. You are a teenage idiot. Your posting privileges need to be revoked.

P.S.: You're amongst many Indians who need to be monitored. Online, offline.

1980s
18 Dec 14,, 18:31
BBC News - Peshawar school massacre: Pakistan's watershed Taliban moment? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30532846)
By Aamer Ahmed Khan
Editor, BBC Urdu, Islamabad

For a nation that has lost more than 70,000 people in 13 years to terror attacks, it is not easy to talk of watersheds.

But the brutal Taliban attack on an army-run school in Peshawar which killed more than 130 children may well be a watershed for a country that has long been accused by the world of treating terrorists as strategic assets.

The day after the attack, as a nation mourned and Peshawar buried its dead, Pakistan's top political leadership announced that it was no longer willing to make any distinction between "good" and "bad" Taliban. Flanked by his arch rivals and allies, Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif vowed to carry on fighting until the last terrorist was killed.

As he was making the announcement, Pakistan's army chief General Raheel Sharif was meeting Afghan President Ashraf Ghani and International Security Assistance Force (Isaf) commanders in Kabul to seek their assistance in fighting a menace which he said had "hit the heart of the Pakistani nation".

Could this, then, be the watershed Pakistan has been in search of for years?

The answer probably lies in the prime minister's statement, which is not only about a new intent but also about an admission: for years Pakistan has pursued a duplicitous policy towards various shades of militant organisations operating out of its territory.

Simply put, those active against Isaf in Afghanistan or against Indian security forces across the Line of Control in Kashmir were the "good" Taliban. But those who had affiliated themselves to al-Qaeda after 9/11 and carried out terror attacks inside Pakistan were the "bad" ones.

The problem, of course, was this distinction was never as clear in Taliban minds as it was in Pakistan's policy makers'. Often co-operating organisationally and operationally, the continuously splintering Taliban groups continued to benefit from the fruits of Pakistan's policy confusion. In the process, they consolidated their bases in the country's lawless tribal belt unchecked.

The inaction of General Kayani, Raheel Sharif's predecessor, was an additional bonus for the Taliban. In his six-year tenure, he came under strong criticism for failing to devise an effective counter terrorism approach even after the government gave him complete authority to do so.

Consequently, every fresh Taliban attack on soldiers steadily raised the disquiet and resentment within military ranks - not only against the government but also its own leadership.

That was why Gen Sharif lost no time in launching what he called an indiscriminate operation earlier in the year in North and South Waziristan, the two tribal agencies most under Taliban control.

But still mired in their policy confusion, Pakistan's political leadership's response to his initiative was lukewarm. Gen Sharif categorically said "we will get them", be they Pakistani Taliban, Punjabi Taliban, al-Qaeda and affiliates, or most importantly, the dreaded Haqqani network. But the country's political leadership chose to remain largely silent.

The Peshawar attack seems to have changed that.

Sheer brutality

In the short term, the Taliban may have got what they wanted. They were able to hit the army where it hurts the most. The 128 army-run schools in the country are home to more than 150,000 students, 90% of them are children of serving army officers.

The attack has brought the fight home to the army in its most horrific form.

The militants have also demonstrated that despite the army's claims of having destroyed their operational and organisational capability, they are present and still capable of planning and hitting at will, where they want.

A bonus of course has been the media spectacle that has gone beyond Pakistan's borders.

But in doing so, they have also brought home the sheer brutality of this conflict.

Behind every student they killed in Peshawar, lurked their anger and frustration at what many among them must perceive as an about-turn by a former sympathiser, if not exactly an ally.

For the Taliban, the attack was an act of pure revenge. There doesn't seem to be any strategic or political thinking behind it other than their known philosophy of ruling through terror. It seems to matter little to them that it may have pushed Pakistan's civil and military leadership into rethinking its good-Taliban-bad-Taliban approach.

More important for Gen Sharif, though, is the fact that if there was any measure of sympathy for the Taliban within the army, which was their chief mentor only a decade ago, it must have been washed away in the tears of hundreds of grieving military families across Pakistan.

Does it then mean that the real war on terror has finally started in Pakistan?

It is far too early to venture a credible guess given the historic complexity of Pakistan's relationship with the Taliban.

But what is clear is that Pakistan is now looking for visible and demonstrable revenge - which may perhaps come only from a trade-off with Afghanistan on each other's "good" and "bad" Taliban.

In a country with a 35-year history of rearing militant groups for its strategic objectives, perhaps that is as far as a watershed can go. At least for now.

commander
18 Dec 14,, 18:54
You do, you have a lot of explaining to do. You have not passed those comments in isolation. You did in this very board, and made sure you rub salts into their wounds. Kids being dead, and your comments. What if your family or relatives were killed in a terrorist incident? Would you be making the same comments?


I always sympathized with the innocent no matter which side they were on. You failed to notice it and it isn't my problem. If the mods feel they were out of line let them come to me and you don't try to act smart by naming people everywhere.



Stereotyping? For the insensitive comments you made. Pray, that the Staff in here are open minded and haven't taken any action. Doesn't mean, others would let it go.


When even after their own kids were killed because of a monster THEY fed they point their fingers on MY country and you would expect me to be calm and quite about it ? I am not sure about you but I never take false accusations especially something this outrageous.



You didn't merely point that out. You made it a tit-for-tat happening.


I never said tit for tat, I was only furious after they made their commitment to fight terrorism and then the very next day release the mastermind of 26/11 in bail ? So kids haven't been in killed in 26/11 are you happy they let him out ? What about Haifz Saeed ? Again don't try to be the smart ass by twisting my words to suit your needs.



Don't you dare point fingers at me, when it's clear even to Pak authorities that TTP is behind the attacks. Don't you even read?


Oh I did, I did clearly. Did you read Hafiz Saeed's statement or Parvez's ?, do you even use something called Twitter and know what the mood of some of the netizens in Pakistan ? And you got furious because I pointed at you. How do you feel when you call me insensitive to take pleasure in the killing of the kids then. How should I feel ? man you are crazy let me tell you that and a big hypocrite.



Besides all, you're ignorant. You give out statements, but cannot back it up. You wanted a whole village in W.B. to fight with 2 revolver wielding women, and your accusations included the whole village. You are a teenage idiot. Your posting privileges need to be revoked.



I said it Mr.Know-it-all when I am wrong I correct myself and not keep on harping the same shit like you. I am a teenage idiot ? wow again name calling. Do whatever you want.


P.S.: You're amongst many Indians who need to be monitored. Online, offline.

Haha ... I can't stop laughing... Good luck with that crippled mind of yours.

Firestorm
18 Dec 14,, 19:12
Really? What was that?

Sad indeed, they tasted their own medicine and hope the nation recovers from this loss and wakes up the reality of terrorism in their country rather than blame India for alll of their misfortunes. Kids shouldn't have been involved in this, their army would have been justified,but not innocent kids.


The Afghan Taliban which the PA wholeheartedly supported and continues to support have killed plenty of women and children in Afghanistan. The LeT/JeM/IM etc. which they also support and cheer have killed children in India. Children just as innocent as the ones who dies in Peshawar. So while being insensitive, what Commander said, just happens to be true.

BTW, they released Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi today, one of the main conspirators of 26/11. Hafeez Saeed is already free and going around spreading more hate against India. Zraver is right. Those kids really did die in vain.



P.S.: You're amongst many Indians who need to be monitored. Online, offline.
The NSA is looking for young men like you.

barangai
18 Dec 14,, 19:25
A very positive step

We should take out Abdul Aziz along with complete ban on Lal Masjid as soon as possible,otherwise this site once again will serve as a base of terrorism in Pakistan(perhaps ISIS)


ISLAMABAD: A crowd gathered outside the main entrance of Lal Masjid in Islamabad on Thursday evening to hold a candlelight vigil for the victims of the Peshawar school attack.

The vigil started just after evening prayers with a two-minute silence for the school attack victims. It soon swelled to a protest with nearly 300 people who chanted slogans against the mosque’s chief Maulana Abdul Aziz and the Peshawar school attackers. They demanded that the police arrest Aziz by reopening cases against him.


More in the link

http://tribune.com.pk/story/809008/vigil-for-peshawar-attack-victims-outside-lal-masjid-threatens-to-spill-over/

Oracle
18 Dec 14,, 19:30
The Afghan Taliban which the PA wholeheartedly supported and continues to support have killed plenty of women and children in Afghanistan. The LeT/JeM/IM etc. which they also support and cheer have killed children in India. Children just as innocent as the ones who dies in Peshawar. So while being insensitive, what Commander said, just happens to be true.

BTW, they released Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi today, one of the main conspirators of 26/11. Hafeez Saeed is already free and going around spreading more hate against India. Zraver is right. Those kids really did die in vain.


The NSA is looking for young men like you.

I agree with the first part of you your post.

Second part - I would support the NSA with whatever skill sets I got, if they need me, if it means weeding out terrorist sympathisers in around the world and in India, or Indians abroad.

Parihaka
18 Dec 14,, 19:34
Address the argument not the person please gentlemen.

Double Edge
18 Dec 14,, 21:30
So rather than clean up its own house, Pakistan is looking for an external scapegoat again.... the kids died in vain.
Forget the scapegoat bit.

As to whether those kids died in vain, its too difficult to go after all the terrorists or they will all unite and fight the state.

So they try to fight one and leave others. This creates problems of clarity, doubts among the citizens whether the govt is serious or not.

They are in for lots of suffering in the short to medium term :frown:

commander
19 Dec 14,, 01:28
For me the lives of innocent kids/women/men lost during 26/11 in MY country is of MORE concern/valuable than the lives of innocent kids from a nearby country. Although I feel pity for the kids and their families, the moment their courts decided to let go of that guy responsible for 26/11 my sympathy towards their COUNTRY (read not families but country) for facing such a tragedy faded away very quickly.

Officer of Engineers
19 Dec 14,, 02:51
People. STOP! Just stop! Let the Pakistanis have their rage. They're hurting and they're hurting bad. They're lashing out. They're blaming everyone! It is human nature. It is everybody's fault but their own. Let them grieve. Let them cry. It hurts. It hurts big time. Don't expect logic. Expect grief. Expect anger. Expect blame.

They are crying. They are hurt. They want to blame everyone. Except themselves.

Let them.

They will blame themselves soon enough and that is when another hurt is coming.

barangai
19 Dec 14,, 07:51
32 Militants killed in Khyber agency
8 Militants killed in Ziarat
4 Militants killed/arrested in Karachi

All of them having TTP origin


Operation updates: 32 suspected terrorists killed in Khyber Agency

http://tribune.com.pk/story/722202/army-launches-operation-in-north-waziristan/

barangai
19 Dec 14,, 07:52
Even though a heavy price paid but i believe this will mark the end of insurgency in Pakistan

Batista
19 Dec 14,, 10:01
People. STOP! Just stop! Let the Pakistanis have their rage. They're hurting and they're hurting bad. They're lashing out. They're blaming everyone! It is human nature. It is everybody's fault but their own. Let them grieve. Let them cry. It hurts. It hurts big time. Don't expect logic. Expect grief. Expect anger. Expect blame.

They are crying. They are hurt. They want to blame everyone. Except themselves.

Let them.

They will blame themselves soon enough and that is when another hurt is coming.

Ohhh... so it's "human nature" and you feel the "pain" so much and now even turned into a apologist for Terrorists.:eek:

If they are CRYING and BADLY HURT and want the terrorism to end then the FIRST thing they should do is to STOP blaming US/Afganistan/India etc.

Just yesterday(not a coincidence with School attack and Hafiz threat to attack India) they just let the Pakistani Lakhvi Terrorist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaki_ur_Rehman_Lakhvi) free so they can plan attack on India.The Super Pakistani Terrorist Hafiz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafiz_Muhammad_Saeed) who is a designated International terrorist and has a bounty of 10 Million roams free and his venom spewing rallies are even facilitated by Pak Army/Govt.This proves they are going to sponsor terrorism until their last breath.

Pakistan Shocker. 26/11 Accused Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi Granted Bail. (http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/pakistan-shocker-26-11-accused-zaki-ur-rehman-lakhvi-granted-bail-636468)




32 Militants killed in Khyber agency
8 Militants killed in Ziarat
4 Militants killed/arrested in Karachi

All of them having TTP origin

Operation updates: 32 suspected terrorists killed in Khyber Agency – The Express Tribune (http://tribune.com.pk/story/722202/army-launches-operation-in-north-waziristan/)

And how come all of the killed are "Terrorists"? Do these terrorists put a name plate outside their home or live with a "Dog Tag"? When US kills they(Pakistan) cry that civilians are killed but not now.

It could be just some civilians, you never know since Pak Army never let the the real news out.Pak Army is under extreme pressure since they got hurt where it hurt the MOST.Now their own kids are butchered(some even 2 year olds shot in the head with close range).

Once again it exposes that Pakistan is the land of State Sponsored Terrorism and it would continue to make sure the definition of Good/Bad terrorists exists no matter what they lie on media.

The FACT is that Pak Army is the root cause of all terrorism specially in their region.Whenever the civilian govt try to do something they are cornered and threatened.

lemontree
19 Dec 14,, 10:15
Batista, you don't know the Colonel and have not understood his post, so please stop making a fool of yourself.

barangai
19 Dec 14,, 10:20
The airstrikes are made in Khyber agency and NW.They are already evacuated with upto 0.4Million IDPs from Khyber agency and upto 1.1Million IDPs from NW.You can watch the videos of NW and you won't spot any single civilian though alot of talibs can be spotted

Beside,Zaki ur Rehman is already arrested again.please keep yourself updated,thanks

barangai
19 Dec 14,, 10:26
This latest release is said to be of those 32 killed in both groud operation and air strikes.

I am not 100% sure if this is true or not.could be older

WARNING-GRAPHIC CONTENT

https://scontent-b-fra.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/9486_10204323226834273_3913399139023472950_n.jpg?o h=38fdade294a40bde97b6c420371fb667&oe=553FC775

Batista
19 Dec 14,, 11:31
Batista, you don't know the Colonel and have not understood his post, so please stop making a fool of yourself.

Is this your view or you are under pressure for obvious reasons.

Dk__
19 Dec 14,, 12:13
Video: An Al Qaeda training camp is operating just a few hundred kilometers from Peshawar where Indians are being trained to conduct attacks. (http://headlinestoday.intoday.in/programme/pakistans-double-game-continues-al-qaeda-training-indians/1/407648.html)

:rolleyes:

Batista
19 Dec 14,, 12:21
The airstrikes are made in Khyber agency and NW.They are already evacuated with upto 0.4Million IDPs from Khyber agency and upto 1.1Million IDPs from NW.You can watch the videos of NW and you won't spot any single civilian though alot of talibs can be spotted

Beside,Zaki ur Rehman is already arrested again.please keep yourself updated,thanks

And how much this might affect? He can still live a normal life in "jail".

Any update when would Pakistanis arrest and prosecute Hafiz who is a designated International terrorist having 10 Million on his head?

Batista
19 Dec 14,, 12:50
Why Pakistan won't hunt down the terrorists within its borders - The Week (http://theweek.com/article/index/273946/why-pakistan-wont-hunt-down-the-terrorists-within-its-borders)


Thanks partly to exaggerated fears about India, Pakistan has built its army and its intelligence arm, the Inter-Intelligence Service (ISI), into all-powerful entities that are scarcely answerable to civilian rulers. Indeed, no Pakistani government can survive without their support. The army and ISI know it, and demand free rein over the nation's foreign and defense priorities.

Pakistan can't rid itself of Islamist terrorists without going after their ISI protectors.

Pakistan's ties to militant groups complicate its terrorism fight - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/world/afghanistan-pakistan/la-fg-pakistan-extremists-20141219-story.html#page=1)


The U.S. raid in 2011 that killed Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, who was living near a Pakistani military academy outside Islamabad, fueled even more questions about the security establishment's covert support for extremists.

Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the political arm of the banned Lashkar-e-Taiba militant organization, which was blamed for the Mumbai attack, has been prominent in recent days. Its leader, Hafiz Muhammad Saeed — who is being sought by the U.S., with a $10-million reward for information leading to his arrest — vowed on national television to take revenge on India for the Peshawar massacre.

There's reason to be skeptical of Sharif's statements because he's not the man in charge.

Officer of Engineers
19 Dec 14,, 13:05
Is this your view or you are under pressure for obvious reasons.He's stating a fact. Fool.

barangai
19 Dec 14,, 13:30
some serious developments


'Army, ISAF agree to take Fazlullah out in coming days'

Fazlullah was reportedly in contact with the Peshawar school attackers from Afghanistan during the assault which left 141 people, mostly school children, dead on December 16.

“Although Chief of Army Staff General Raheel Sharif and DG ISI Rizwan Akhter have provided audio proof of attackers talking to Fazlullah during the assault, Army is currently refraining from chasing targets across the international border,” the sources said. The audio recording, handed to Afghan authorities, was in Pashto.

Further, sources said, the military leadership and Isaf agreed to target Fazlullah in a drone attack rather than a ground operation in the Nanger Har, Nooristan and Kunar areas of Afghanistan, where Fazlullah is believed to be taking sanctuary.



http://tribune.com.pk/story/809332/army-isaf-agree-to-take-fazlullah-out-in-coming-days-pm-told/

barangai
19 Dec 14,, 13:32
And how much this might affect? He can still live a normal life in "jail".

Any update when would Pakistanis arrest and prosecute Hafiz who is a designated International terrorist having 10 Million on his head?

I don't want to mix up things,but sir even Colonel Purohit is still alive in Jail and not hanged.

Pedicabby
19 Dec 14,, 14:26
Batista, you don't know the Colonel and have not understood his post, so please stop making a fool of yourself.

If only......

commander
19 Dec 14,, 15:06
.

Sir, honestly I do feel sorry for the kids, they did nothing wrong absolutely nothing. There is no second opinion in that. What hurts is when they blamed us for providing a helping hand to them. This is when the entire nation mourned for those kids in Indian schools and everybody I talked to had the same opinion. Now comes the next shocker, they released a terrorist who IS one of the mastermind behind the 26/11 terrorist attacks. This comes in when Indian intelligence agencies have been warning us of an impending attack in our capital. How would you want us to feel about it. Blaming us for what happened is one thing and helping a terrorist who masterminded the worst act of terrorism in the Indian history is quite another. What's more they are aiding Hafiz Saeed by arranging special trains where he spreads hatred about India. Now tell me what should we do. Shouldn't we feel outraged for the 160+ lives we lost that day. Is it only blood if the Pakistani's bleed or is it only time for mourning if a casualty happens in Pakistan ? This rubbing of salt on the wounds when we showed our solidarity is just unspeakable. The Pakistani's danced on the streets when kids were killed on our side. Someone asked me yesterday how would I feel if my family was attacked. Every Indian who lost his life that day is my family no matter which religion he was from, we have issues in our family and I am not denying that but I won't let down my family in front of a stranger and I can never forgive or forget. I can sympathize but not at the cost of my family.

Officer of Engineers
19 Dec 14,, 15:19
I'm not asking anything of the sort. I'm telling you to leave them be and let their emotions ride themselves out. They are in an emotional mess and nothing you say will get them out of that mess any sooner and just might make them even more hysterical.

1980s
19 Dec 14,, 15:33
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZYy1l24DMw

zraver
19 Dec 14,, 15:34
Even though a heavy price paid but i believe this will mark the end of insurgency in Pakistan

If you think killing them in dribs and dabs will defeat them you are making the same mistake as the UK, USSR and US. Ditto if you think this is just an insurgency. Its a blood feud and you'll have to do A LOT MORE killing to break them....

barangai
19 Dec 14,, 17:51
If you think killing them in dribs and dabs will defeat them you are making the same mistake as the UK, USSR and US. Ditto if you think this is just an insurgency. Its a blood feud and you'll have to do A LOT MORE killing to break them....

Sir,unlike USSR,UK or USA,we are not foreign to them.We know how to fight them.Infact many of them fighting today are the pashtuns.

From considering of Nek Muhammad wazir as Hero in my hometown(among my tribe) to considering all taliban by default as animals now is a considerable change.

antimony
19 Dec 14,, 18:06
Is this your view or you are under pressure for obvious reasons.

It is the view of everyone sensible around here. You are making a fool of yourself.

barangai
19 Dec 14,, 18:08
In the past 3 days,190 Militants are killed.

As per Ihsan dawar,Ground operation in Shawal expanded,IDP's from Shawal to be moved to either Bannu or Orakzai agency

antimony
19 Dec 14,, 18:12
People. STOP! Just stop! Let the Pakistanis have their rage. They're hurting and they're hurting bad. They're lashing out. They're blaming everyone! It is human nature. It is everybody's fault but their own. Let them grieve. Let them cry. It hurts. It hurts big time. Don't expect logic. Expect grief. Expect anger. Expect blame.

They are crying. They are hurt. They want to blame everyone. Except themselves.

Let them.

They will blame themselves soon enough and that is when another hurt is coming.

Col.

Would like to clarify something. At this time it is perfectly acceptable for ordinary Pakistanis like Neo, Barangai, AM and others to go on a rage and blame everyone else. I get that.

That is actually not what is happening. Some deep state actors like Hamid Gul are making cold and calculated attempts to lessen the blame on the Taliban, who they sympathize with. They know they are fighting a tide of opinion against the Taliban, hence they are appearing on multiple media outlets to spread their desired message. That is what worries and angers me.

Ordinary Pakistanis are susceptible to that message of calculated hate.

Also, I for one, do not see any great complicity in Lakhvi's bail. I think the GoP has taken the right step to detain him and try to quash the bail. India needs to be patient with Pakistan at this point. Ordinary Pakistanis have shown some greatfulness to the outpouring of sadness from India. Modi and Nawaz needs to be able to capitalize on that.

1980s
19 Dec 14,, 18:20
From considering of Nek Muhammad wazir as Hero in my hometown(among my tribe) to considering all taliban by default as animals now is a considerable change.

Its not the sincerity of you or your tribe or hometown etc that is in doubt, its the sincerity and seriousness of the Pakistan establishment that is questioned.

Why has nobody from the Pakistani establishment ever condemned Mullah Omar by name, denounced his claim to be an 'Emir' of Muslims and called for his arrest? Sharif is still playing games and did not go far enough when he made the remark that there would no longer be any distinction between 'good Taliban' and 'bad Taliban'. What Taliban is he talking about? The Pakistani factions or the entire fraternity that includes the original Afghan movement?

This is the moment of truth that everybody has been waiting for. Will Pakistan finally, openly, publicly condemn Mullah Omar by name? They have called on President Ghani of Afghanistan to co-operate with Pakistan against any TTP presence on their soil, but will the Pakistani establishment do the same and openly condemn Mullah Omar by name, and not this vague term of 'Taliban'?

This is the real and final test for Pakistan to prove their seriousness and sincerity. They MUST now come out publicly and denounce Mullah Omar by name. If they dont do this, they cannot and should not be taken seriously.

Afghanistan has thrown the ball in Pakistan's court now, they have publicly condemned the TTP and offered co-operation. How will Rawalpindi now respond to their request to do the same with Mullah Omar and the Haqqanis?

All it takes for the good-will to start, is for a simple, public denunciation - BY NAME - from Sharif personally against Mullah Omar. This is the test now for Pakistan, and it is a very, very important and critical test for him and the entire Pakistani establishment to pass.

barangai
19 Dec 14,, 18:30
Its not the sincerity of you or your tribe or hometown etc that is in doubt, its the sincerity and seriousness of the Pakistan establishment that is questioned.

Why has nobody from the Pakistani establishment ever condemned Mullah Omar by name, denounced his claim to be an 'Emir' of Muslims and called for his arrest? Sharif is still playing games and did not go far enough when he made the remark that there would no longer be any distinction between 'good Taliban' and 'bad Taliban'. What Taliban is he talking about? The Pakistani factions or the entire fraternity that includes the original Afghan movement?

This is the moment of truth that everybody has been waiting for. Will Pakistan finally, openly, publicly condemn Mullah Omar by name? They have called on President Ghani of Afghanistan to co-operate with Pakistan against any TTP presence on their soil, but will the Pakistani establishment do the same and openly condemn Mullah Omar by name, and not this vague term of 'Taliban'?

This is the real and final test for Pakistan to prove their seriousness and sincerity. They MUST now come out publicly and denounce Mullah Omar by name. If they dont do this, they cannot and should not be taken seriously.

Afghanistan has thrown the ball in Pakistan's court now, they have publicly condemned the TTP and offered co-operation. How will Rawalpindi now respond to their request to do the same with Mullah Omar and the Haqqanis?

All it takes for the good-will to start, is for a simple, public denunciation - BY NAME - from Sharif personally against Mullah Omar. This is the test now for Pakistan, and it is a very, very important and critical test for him and the entire Pakistani establishment to pass.

I agree with most of your points.And i will be even more happy when they will officially denouce Mullah omar and start operation against haqqani(i believe it has already been started).

barangai
19 Dec 14,, 18:32
Mastermind of 16 dec attack

naraye ka pas las raghalay


DERA ISMAIL KHAN: The most hated man in the country is a 36-year-old father of three and volleyball enthusiast nicknamed “Slim”. His real name is Umar Mansoor and the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan say he masterminded this week’s massacre of 132 children and nine staff at a school in Peshawar – the deadliest militant attack in Pakistan’s history.

A video posted on Thursday on a website used by the Taliban shows a man with a luxuriant chest-length beard, holding an admonishing finger aloft as he seeks to justify the December 16 attack.

The caption identified him as Umar Mansoor.

“If our women and children die as martyrs, your children will not escape,” he said. “We will fight against you in such a style that you attack us and we will take revenge on innocents.



For more,open the link

Mastermind of the Peshawar school attack: Umar Mansoor – The Express Tribune (http://tribune.com.pk/story/809357/mastermind-of-the-peshawar-school-attack-umar-mansoor/)

barangai
19 Dec 14,, 18:36
And So it is official now,

FIR filed against Lal Masjid cleric Abdul Aziz

1980s
19 Dec 14,, 20:22
Its not the sincerity of you or your tribe or hometown etc that is in doubt, its the sincerity and seriousness of the Pakistan establishment that is questioned.

Why has nobody from the Pakistani establishment ever condemned Mullah Omar by name, denounced his claim to be an 'Emir' of Muslims and called for his arrest? Sharif is still playing games and did not go far enough when he made the remark that there would no longer be any distinction between 'good Taliban' and 'bad Taliban'. What Taliban is he talking about? The Pakistani factions or the entire fraternity that includes the original Afghan movement?

This is the moment of truth that everybody has been waiting for. Will Pakistan finally, openly, publicly condemn Mullah Omar by name? They have called on President Ghani of Afghanistan to co-operate with Pakistan against any TTP presence on their soil, but will the Pakistani establishment do the same and openly condemn Mullah Omar by name, and not this vague term of 'Taliban'?

This is the real and final test for Pakistan to prove their seriousness and sincerity. They MUST now come out publicly and denounce Mullah Omar by name. If they dont do this, they cannot and should not be taken seriously.

Afghanistan has thrown the ball in Pakistan's court now, they have publicly condemned the TTP and offered co-operation. How will Rawalpindi now respond to their request to do the same with Mullah Omar and the Haqqanis?

All it takes for the good-will to start, is for a simple, public denunciation - BY NAME - from Sharif personally against Mullah Omar. This is the test now for Pakistan, and it is a very, very important and critical test for him and the entire Pakistani establishment to pass.

Looks like i need to correct myself, Sharif couldnt even do that (in bold). . .

"Even on the day of the Peshawar school massacre, the Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, failed to condemn the Taliban by name. He referred only to "terrorists"."

BBC News - Mutual antipathy hampers Pakistan control of militants (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30520596)

commander
19 Dec 14,, 20:25
Looks like i need to correct myself, Sharif couldnt even do that (in bold). . .

"Even on the day of the Peshawar school massacre, the Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif, failed to condemn the Taliban by name. He referred only to "terrorists"."

BBC News - Mutual antipathy hampers Pakistan control of militants (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-30520596)

Only Talibans are terrorists for them, LeT,JUD and the likes are still their guardian angels that fight against the evil Indian regime to free their brothers in Kashmir.

Pedicabby
19 Dec 14,, 21:22
In the past 3 days,190 Militants are killed.



38750

notorious_eagle
19 Dec 14,, 21:59
In the past 3 days,190 Militants are killed.

As per Ihsan dawar,Ground operation in Shawal expanded,IDP's from Shawal to be moved to either Bannu or Orakzai agency

Gloves are off

The is the first time that PA has released pictures of dead TTP terrorists and footages of heavy shelling. TTP signed its own death warrant, they have lost all the sympathy they had among the Pakistani populace.

barangai
19 Dec 14,, 22:14
Many source's claim that Mullah Fazlullah and Sajna are killed in airstrikes.

The origin of the airstrikes is yet to be confirmed

Firestorm
19 Dec 14,, 22:29
Gloves are off

But isn't that what Zarb-e-Azb was all about? Taking the gloves off. We have seen plenty of reports over the past 6 months of dozens of Taliban militants killed and pictures of towns devastated by artillery and air-strikes. So what is different now? Gloves have been already off for the last six months as per the reports.

barangai
19 Dec 14,, 22:36
But isn't that what Zarb-e-Azb was all about? Taking the gloves off. We have seen plenty of reports over the past 6 months of dozens of Taliban militants killed and pictures of towns devastated by artillery and air-strikes. So what is different now? Gloves have been already off for the last six months as per the reports.


Zarbeazb resulted in a big decrease in terrorist activities across Pakistan with a big decrease in civilian fatalities

Fatalities in Terrorist Violence in Pakistan 2003-2014 (http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/database/casualties.htm)

Infact the fatalities due to Bomb blasts are reduced by many folds as compared to last 5-6 years

notorious_eagle
19 Dec 14,, 23:17
But isn't that what Zarb-e-Azb was all about? Taking the gloves off. We have seen plenty of reports over the past 6 months of dozens of Taliban militants killed and pictures of towns devastated by artillery and air-strikes. So what is different now? Gloves have been already off for the last six months as per the reports.

What is different is the ferocity with PA is fighting the TTP. They are showing them no mercy, they are not taking any prisoners. A notorious senior TTP Commander was simply shot in the head by a Major instead of being arrested.

Zarb e Azb no-doubt has broken the back of TTP, this is why they are reduced to only attacking soft targets instead of attacking hard targets like they did in 2007-2013. In the past, you only saw pictures and videos of devastated towns but you never saw pictures of dead TTP fighters. That has changed. The barbaric killing of innocent children has certainly awoken a sentiment among every Pakistani that we need to reply in kind, thus the lifting of moratorium on death sentences.

zraver
19 Dec 14,, 23:54
Sir,unlike USSR,UK or USA,we are not foreign to them.We know how to fight them.Infact many of them fighting today are the pashtuns.

From considering of Nek Muhammad wazir as Hero in my hometown(among my tribe) to considering all taliban by default as animals now is a considerable change.

We will see..... I hope you are right, but if past is prologue I am.

1980s
20 Dec 14,, 00:03
What is different is the ferocity with PA is fighting the TTP. They are showing them no mercy, they are not taking any prisoners. A notorious senior TTP Commander was simply shot in the head by a Major instead of being arrested.

This is nothing new. There have been reports of what is known as Pakistan's "kill & dump" policy against Baluch nationalists (both rebels and political activists) and TTP fighters for several years now.

The result of such "kill & dump" methods no doubt just fuels the fire of Baluch and tribal Pashtun enmity with Pakistan which is why you see episodes like Baluch rebels taking revenge on Punjabi migrants in Balochistan and TTP revenge attacks against Pakistani "soft targets" like the Indo-Pak border crossing (clearly aimed as a message against Punjabis) and now the army school.

Im actually a bit more inclined to agree now with zraver that this is a war that is definitely now showing signs of ethnic enmity from tribal Pashtuns against Punjabis and urban Pashtuns, much like the situation in Balochistan has gone from a rebellion against Islamabad to an ethnic war against Pakistan and Punjabis (nothing else can explain why Baluch rebels routinely kill people from that ethnic group every time the dead bodies of Baluch nationalists are found "dumped & killed").

Umar Mansoor's warning to Pakistan is extremely brutal and explicit. This is all now way beyond so-called "jihad".

Pakistan's most hated man: volleyball player, child killer | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/19/us-pakistan-school-commander-idUSKBN0JX1CX20141219)
By Saud Mehsud
DERA ISMAIL KHAN, Pakistan | Fri Dec 19, 2014 11:05am EST

(Reuters) - The most hated man in Pakistan is a 36-year-old father of three and volleyball enthusiast nicknamed "Slim".

His real name is Umar Mansoor and the Pakistani Taliban say he masterminded this week's massacre of 132 children and nine staff at a school in Peshawar - the deadliest militant attack in Pakistan's history.

A video posted on Thursday on a website used by the Taliban shows a man with a luxuriant chest-length beard, holding an admonishing finger aloft as he seeks to justify the Dec. 16 attack. The caption identified him as Umar Mansoor.

"If our women and children die as martyrs, your children will not escape," he said. "We will fight against you in such a style that you attack us and we will take revenge on innocents."

The Taliban say the attack, in which gunmen wearing suicide-bomb vests executed children, was retaliation for a military offensive carried out by the Pakistani army. They accuse the military of carrying out extrajudicial killings.

The accusation is not new. Many courts have heard cases where men disappeared from the custody of security services. Some bodies have been found later, hands bound behind the back and shot in the head, or dismembered and stuffed into sacks.

Some security officials say privately the courts are so corrupt and afraid, it is almost impossible to convict militants.

"You risk your life to catch terrorists and the courts always release them," said one official. "If you kill them then they don't come back."

The country is so inured to violence that the discovery of such bodies barely rates a paragraph in a local newspaper. Despite this, the school attack shocked a nation where traditionally, women and children are protected, even in war.

Six Pakistani Taliban interviewed by Reuters confirmed the mastermind was Mansoor. Four of them said he is close to Mullah Fazlullah, the embattled leader of the fractious group who ordered assassins to kill schoolgirl activist Malala Yousafzai.

"He strictly follows the principles of jihad," one said. "He is strict in principles, but very kind to his juniors. He is popular among the juniors because of his bravery and boldness."

Mansoor got a high school education in the capital, Islamabad, two Taliban members said, and later studied in a madrassa, a religious school.

"Umar Mansoor had a tough mind from a very young age, he was always in fights with other boys," said one Taliban member.

Mansoor has two brothers and spent some time working in the city of Karachi as a laborer before joining the Taliban soon after it was formed, in late 2007, said one commander.

His nickname is "nary," a word in the Pashto language meaning "slim", and he is the father of two daughters and a son, said another commanders.

"(Mansoor) likes to play volleyball," said one of the Taliban members. "He is a good volleyball player. Wherever he shifts his office, he puts a volleyball net up."

The Taliban video describes him as the "amir", or leader, of Peshawar and nearby Darra Adam Khel. Mansoor deeply opposes talks with the government, the commanders said.

"He was very strict from the start when he joined," a commander said. "He left many commanders behind if they had a soft corner (of their heart) for the government."

zraver
20 Dec 14,, 01:16
"He strictly follows the principles of jihad," one said. "He is strict in principles, but very kind to his juniors. He is popular among the juniors because of his bravery and boldness."

Pashtunwali

Ghairat (manliness)

Defense of property, person and tribe- Nanga
Kindness/hospitality- melmastia
Boldness- Tura
Bravery-Turah (might be same word as boldness)
Revenge- Badal
Shaming the enemy- Sharm

Its an ethnic war, even if the illiterate think its about Islam, its not, its about the pashtunwali or what might be called tribal Islam.

Double Edge
20 Dec 14,, 02:14
Im actually a bit more inclined to agree now with zraver that this is a war that is definitely now showing signs of ethnic enmity from tribal Pashtuns against Punjabis and urban Pashtuns, much like the situation in Balochistan has gone from a rebellion against Islamabad to an ethnic war against Pakistan and Punjabis (nothing else can explain why Baluch rebels routinely kill people from that ethnic group every time the dead bodies of Baluch nationalists are found "dumped & killed").
Deobands have been going afer Shias for many years now. This is much smaller in comparison and likely temporary as the PA tries to clean out various areas.

Pashtun vs punjabi ? hmm..

barangai
20 Dec 14,, 07:55
1980s does know the ground realities of pashtun vs punjabis claim by zraver or him himself but he's not honest in his answer.

barangai
20 Dec 14,, 07:56
21+7+5 more militants killed in recent offensive.

barangai
20 Dec 14,, 08:02
Pashtunwali

Ghairat (manliness)

Defense of property, person and tribe- Nanga
Kindness/hospitality- melmastia
Boldness- Tura
Bravery-Turah (might be same word as boldness)
Revenge- Badal
Shaming the enemy- Sharm

Its an ethnic war, even if the illiterate think its about Islam, its not, its about the pashtunwali or what might be called tribal Islam.

Pashtunwali is not related to Islam.infact on ocassion pashtun swear more on pashtunwali than even Islam/Quran.Very rare atleast i have not seen now but earlier when i was a kid i remember the local blood feuds were resolved without involvement of Islam.today they are only solved by Islam.infact prior to the talibization of pashtuns,they were more secular than the other ethnicity of Pakistan or the region or such as Baloch today

zraver
20 Dec 14,, 15:20
Pashtunwali is not related to Islam.infact on ocassion pashtun swear more on pashtunwali than even Islam/Quran.Very rare atleast i have not seen now but earlier when i was a kid i remember the local blood feuds were resolved without involvement of Islam.today they are only solved by Islam.infact prior to the talibization of pashtuns,they were more secular than the other ethnicity of Pakistan or the region or such as Baloch today

Don't get lost in the term Tribal Islam (which BTW was coined by a Pakistani Dr. Akbar Ahmed). But you are right, Islam is taking on an increasingly central position in Pakistan as a whole and in the tribes, though in the tribes what is called islamic law is often anti-islamic but pro-tribal custom. The Pashtunwali isn't the only example of this, but it is the example that matters when we are talking about Pakistan.

Unless Paksitan is willing to fight a battle with a WWII level of destruction and economic ruin you are not going to break the Pashtuns. You might force them over the border into Afghanistan, but they will be back. You only other option is to appease them, but as you've already discovered appeasement doesn't buy peace, it just rents it for a awhile.And unlike America, you can't just pull out and leave- but you'll wish you could.

barangai
20 Dec 14,, 17:18
Don't get lost in the term Tribal Islam (which BTW was coined by a Pakistani Dr. Akbar Ahmed). But you are right, Islam is taking on an increasingly central position in Pakistan as a whole and in the tribes, though in the tribes what is called islamic law is often anti-islamic but pro-tribal custom. The Pashtunwali isn't the only example of this, but it is the example that matters when we are talking about Pakistan.

Unless Paksitan is willing to fight a battle with a WWII level of destruction and economic ruin you are not going to break the Pashtuns. You might force them over the border into Afghanistan, but they will be back. You only other option is to appease them, but as you've already discovered appeasement doesn't buy peace, it just rents it for a awhile.And unlike America, you can't just pull out and leave- but you'll wish you could.

Sir,i am pashtun myself from baka khel and i am well aware of the ground realities.i don't want to argue further whether this is a pashtun vs punjabi or else as only the passage of time will prove that i was right

We are all united against talibs.Sir i might sound optimistic to you but we are at the edge of defeating talibs and talibanism.

Double Edge
21 Dec 14,, 00:07
Islam is taking on an increasingly central position in Pakistan as a whole and in the tribes
Because the Pak state is losing ground in enforcing its writ. It does not have the resources. More state building is required for Pakistan. More moderate pakistanis need to get into debates with the hardliners to counter their claims. The victory of AQ is to conflate local grievances into some pan islamic cause. The terroists want to portray the Pak state as proxies for the infidels.

Who is the enemy, why are we fighting and how to fight are questions without clear answers. Will the people support the army at this time to do that.

There is always this constant tension between using force and settlements. Everybody wants to settle from a position of strength.

Take zarb e azab, the state just suddenly decided to move after the karachi airport incident, they could have moved at any other time so that was arbitrary.


Unless Paksitan is willing to fight a battle with a WWII level of destruction and economic ruin you are not going to break the Pashtuns. You might force them over the border into Afghanistan, but they will be back. You only other option is to appease them, but as you've already discovered appeasement doesn't buy peace, it just rents it for a awhile.And unlike America, you can't just pull out and leave- but you'll wish you could.
Pakistan will bear the brunt of instability in afghanistan, they have to make some hard choices and the result of those choices is you're going to see more kids get killed. That it happened at all signals that the PA was doing 'something'.

lemontree
21 Dec 14,, 14:23
I don't want to mix up things,but sir even Colonel Purohit is still alive in Jail and not hanged.

There is a lot that we need to find out from Purohit, unfortunately the ATS chief who had made a break through in those cases died in 26/11 incident. If we hang him now then many on the hidden suspects will get away scot free.

lemontree
21 Dec 14,, 14:26
Sir,unlike USSR,UK or USA,we are not foreign to them.We know how to fight them.Infact many of them fighting today are the pashtuns.

You are forgetting that the Fakir of Ipi, started his "jihad" against the British and fought the PA till 1955 when he died. They will not be defeated so easily.

barangai
21 Dec 14,, 17:01
You are forgetting that the Fakir of Ipi, started his "jihad" against the British and fought the PA till 1955 when he died. They will not be defeated so easily.

I know and to tell you that people in my family fought for him and uncle of my mother died fighting for him.His Grandson Hafiz Gul bahadur is not upto his standard.

One of his descendant (i am not sure whether from son or daughter) was my brother classmate in Cadet college razmak and my senior.

ajhax
22 Dec 14,, 18:15
Looks like the government is still confused on how to deal with terrorism.


ISLAMABAD: Adviser to the Prime Minister on National Security and Foreign Affairs, Sartaj Aziz on Monday said that Pakistan should not target militants who do not threaten the country’s security.

“Why should America’s enemies unnecessarily become our enemies,” Sartaj Aziz said during an interview with BBC Urdu.

"When the United States attacked Afghanistan, all those that were trained and armed were pushed towards us.

“Some of them were dangerous for us and some are not. Why must we make enemies out of them all?,” he said when speaking about the Haqqani Network.

He further said that the Afghan Taliban are Afghanistan’s problem and Haqqani Network is a part of it.

“It’s the job of the Afghan government to negotiate with them...We can try to convince them, however things are not the same as they were in the nineties,” Aziz said.
Militants not dangerous to Pakistan should not be targeted: Sartaj - Pakistan - DAWN.COM (http://www.dawn.com/news/1145135)

But there has been a sort of retraction from the foreign office itself.



“As for [the] present, Pakistan has launched operation Zarb-i-Azb and taking action against all groups without any distinction or discrimination,” Tasneem Aslam, foreign office spokesperson, said in a statement.

She added that Sartaj Aziz's interview with BBC's Urdu service has created confusion in the official stance of the country. Pakistan’s policy and actions should be seen in the light of its commitment in fighting terrorism in all forms and manifestations, she added.


Sartaj Aziz statement on militant groups taken out of context: FO - Pakistan - DAWN.COM (http://www.dawn.com/news/1145311)

barangai
22 Dec 14,, 20:17
I must admit that,Dr Ashraf Ghani is perhaps not the best for Afghanistan but perhaps the best president in the region.He's honest and doesn't want to play double games at the hand of other neighbours such as India.

I hope that we will also help Afghanistan in eliminating Haqqani Group and to lead a peace deal with Quetta shura as Dr Ashraf Ghani has wished for


Afghan forces launch operation in areas bordering Pakistan

ASADABAD: Afghan security forces have launched an operation against militants in an eastern province seen as a rear base for the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) which carried out the Peshawar school massacre last week, officials said Monday.

COAS Gen Raheel Sharif met Afghan President Ashraf Ghani in Kabul in the aftermath of the school attack in Peshawar which killed 149 people, mainly children.

“Afghan security forces have launched a joint anti-militant operations in several parts of Dangam district of Kunar province,” Dawlat Waziri, deputy defence ministry spokesman, told AFP.

“So far in the operation, 21 armed insurgents have been killed and 33 others wounded,” Waziri said, adding that seven security personnel were wounded.

Kunar governor Shujaul Mulk Jalala said more than 1,500 Afghan Taliban fighters attacked remote villages in Dangam.

Jalala said TTP and Lashkar-e-Taiba militants were also battling Afghan security forces in Dangam.



http://www.dawn.com/news/1152477/afghan-forces-launch-operation-in-areas-bordering-pakistan

barangai
22 Dec 14,, 21:56
TTP confirms death of 120 Militants killed since the attack on the school but as per my calculation,the total militants killed since than is 258(across pakistan) and 23 Arrested excluding the 300 arrests from Islamabad


He said 120 of his men were killed in past 2 days but media was ignoring them

TTP threatened to target Media in Pakistan, 2nd Zarb-i-Azab will kick off - Khaama Press (KP) | Afghan News Agency (http://www.khaama.com/ttp-threatened-to-target-media-in-pakistan-2594)

barangai
22 Dec 14,, 21:59
Well the Afghan source's does confirm the presence of Let in Afghan territory.I don't know what they are doing in Afghanistan and surprisingly india has never raised this issue with Afghanistan

commander
22 Dec 14,, 22:23
Well the Afghan source's does confirm the presence of Let in Afghan territory.I don't know what they are doing in Afghanistan and surprisingly india has never raised this issue with Afghanistan

What else do you think LeT will be doing in a foreign country but to spread Pakistani state sponsored terrorism.

Double Edge
22 Dec 14,, 23:50
Gloves are off

The is the first time that PA has released pictures of dead TTP terrorists and footages of heavy shelling. TTP signed its own death warrant, they have lost all the sympathy they had among the Pakistani populace.
Am wondering why the PA did this as its std recruiting propaganda for the other side.

See what israel is doing, see what US is doing ,now see what PA is doing.


I must admit that,Dr Ashraf Ghani is perhaps not the best for Afghanistan but perhaps the best president in the region.He's honest and doesn't want to play double games at the hand of other neighbours such as India.

I hope that we will also help Afghanistan in eliminating Haqqani Group and to lead a peace deal with Quetta shura as Dr Ashraf Ghani has wished for
Ghani's biggest fight will be against Afghan corruption. Taliban is secondary. With corruption there might not even be bullets in the guns paid for or no guns in the hands of soldiers who are getting paid on the books but not actually receiving the pay. This is how Da'ish took over Iraq.

lemontree
23 Dec 14,, 06:04
Well the Afghan source's does confirm the presence of Let in Afghan territory.I don't know what they are doing in Afghanistan and surprisingly india has never raised this issue with Afghanistan

The LeT work under command of the ISI/PA, whatever they do in Afghanistan or India is at their behest. Why else would Hafiz Saeed and Lakhvi be getting kid glove treatment in Pakistan!

Officer of Engineers
23 Dec 14,, 07:51
Thinking this through, I now weep for Pakistan. The TTP has crossed a line. Pakistan's children are no longer safe. The only obvious answer is that the TTP's children are longer safe. The Pakistani Army will not do what the TTP has done. Go into a school and start shooting. But the children human shields for a TTP platoon in a school yard is not going to stop a Pakistani battery.

An food and fuel trade into TTP zones? Women and children are going to starve and freeze.

God bless.

barangai
23 Dec 14,, 07:59
Ghani's biggest fight will be against Afghan corruption. Taliban is secondary. With corruption there might not even be bullets in the guns paid for or no guns in the hands of soldiers who are getting paid on the books but not actually receiving the pay. This is how Da'ish took over Iraq.

True but Ghani had a the top priority of developing relations with Pakistan unlike karzai.Unlike karzai,Ghani is a well educated person and does know that you can replace friends but not neighbours.So the only choice left is to have Greater relations with the neighbour.Karzai was playing at the hand of indians and Ghani does know that india only worry about development in Afghanistan to counter Pakistan influence,which indirectly will also involve Pakistani efforts to counter india in afghanistan leading to the destruction of Afghanistan and its common people.

So Dr Ashraf Ghani,is a smart man and is the reason why he declined the request for arms from india and rather requested China,and until now china has already delivered arms upto 1Million dollars

Double Edge
23 Dec 14,, 15:33
True but Ghani had a the top priority of developing relations with Pakistan unlike karzai.Unlike karzai,Ghani is a well educated person and does know that you can replace friends but not neighbours.So the only choice left is to have Greater relations with the neighbour.Karzai was playing at the hand of indians and Ghani does know that india only worry about development in Afghanistan to counter Pakistan influence,which indirectly will also involve Pakistani efforts to counter india in afghanistan leading to the destruction of Afghanistan and its common people.
Sort out your mil-to-mil. Otherwise ttp & taliban are going to be running across the border and getting away. Who will chase them ?

All these complaints about other side giving sanctuary to your terrorists does not wash.


So Dr Ashraf Ghani,is a smart man and is the reason why he declined the request for arms from india and rather requested China,and until now china has already delivered arms upto 1Million dollars
He did not decline the request but was unhappy with India's offer. He's free to choose.

This isn't surprising as the IA itself is waiting to get arms itself despite having MoD approval since 2009 (!) If the present administration clears up this backlog then maybe India can be more forthcoming to Afghan requirements.

troung
24 Dec 14,, 00:54
Karzai was playing at the hand of indians and Ghani does know that india only worry about development in Afghanistan to counter Pakistan influence,which indirectly will also involve Pakistani efforts to counter india in afghanistan leading to the destruction of Afghanistan and its common people.

And if the blow back of supporting terrorists leads to the chickens coming home to roost such as a school or two inside being machine gunned in Pakistan then so be it - "strategic depth" is too valuable.

Agnostic Muslim
24 Dec 14,, 04:41
Unless Paksitan is willing to fight a battle with a WWII level of destruction and economic ruin you are not going to break the Pashtuns. You might force them over the border into Afghanistan, but they will be back. You only other option is to appease them, but as you've already discovered appeasement doesn't buy peace, it just rents it for a awhile.And unlike America, you can't just pull out and leave- but you'll wish you could.
The war is not with 'all Pashtun', it never has been - at best, if you really wanted to pigeonhole the people this war is being fought against, you could argue that this is a war against certain 'Pashtun tribes of FATA'. The Pashtun ethnic group, both tribal and settled, has itself suffered the most human and economic damage at the hands of their fellow 'Pashtun' Taliban, so, theoretically, the concept of Pashtunwali as you and some other commentators see it would work against the Taliban and associated groups more than it would against the Pakistani military.

Where the theory fails is:

(i) the Pakistani military and government will always be perceived as the 'other' in contrast to the local tribal thug/warlord leading the local TTP Chapter

(ii) the Pakistani military is not going to engage in a drive to recruit the relatives of those killed by the Taliban and brainwash them into believing that they can achieve 'instant gratification/revenge' (and the assorted virgins and/or raisins) by massacring innocents in crowded bazaars, schools and sporting events.

(iii) the State has abdicated its responsibilities for too long in the tribal areas and made the local populace dependent upon the Taliban for some semblance of order and economic stability - so not only is the Pakistani military/government the 'other' demographically, it is also threatening the 'way of life' (relatively lucrative for many) that the locals have come to depend on. Given the above, one can begin to understand how strong the Taliban support base (willing, coerced and brainwashed) is - the GOC for the North Waziristan operation (a Pakhtun himself) had some very interesting (and angry) comments about the extent of local facilitation and support for the Taliban/extremist networks.

The State just can't compete with that kind of 'return' in the short term, but the fact of the matter is that the Taliban continue to kill many magnitudes more innocents than the State, and that the mass displacement of many from the Tribal areas (a policy criticized by many) has in fact cut off the locals from economic and security dependency on the Taliban/extremists and made them pay a heavy material cost for their facilitation and support of the Taliban. Of course the long term success of the policy (weaning the locals of the TTP/extremist teat) is contingent on the usual 'reconstruction, rehabilitation and development' phases that are supposed to follow the military 'sweep' of the region, but Swat has shown that it can be done, though it will be harder in FATA.

Back to the attack and its 'ethnic dimensions' and/or potential of 'ethnic tensions' in the aftermath - had the TTP carried out this attack on a military school in Punjab, the government and military response would probably have been the same, but the narrative could have been distorted into one of a 'Punjabi government and military wantonly massacring Pashtun as revenge for Punjabi children being killed'. But this attack was in an ancient Pashtun city that is the heart of the Pashtun province in Pakistan, a city that has already seen a lot of Pashtun blood being spilled by the same TTP terrorists. The question Pakistanis are asking now is not whether the 'Punjabi Establishment is overreacting against the Pashtun in anger', but why it took so long to go after them.

The TTP may have miscalculated here (assuming they wanted to sow ethnic rifts to cause greater destabilization in the country) - they could have carried out the attack in Punjab and made this a Punjabi vs Pashtun issue, especially given the fact that they must have known that the government (lead by a Punjabi leadership) and military would increase the tempo of kinetic operations in the aftermath, which would in turn play into a TTP narrative of 'Punjabi atrocities against the Pashtun' (was the date of the Peshawar school attack, the same date as the loss of East Pakistan, a coincidence?). The TTP could still carry out attacks on soft targets in Punjab, but the die has been cast and the national narrative has solidified into one of 'Pakistanis against the TTP' instead of 'Punjabis vs the Pashtun'.

On a side note, while I expect to see some progress in terms of policy reforms, I am not convinced that the current government has the courage for any far reaching changes such as reforms and accountability of the Madrassas, mosques/various other religious organizations, curriculum, laws legitimizing intolerance and hatred etc. A complete implementation of the existing proposals on a national counter-terrorism body alone would be a significant step.

antimony
24 Dec 14,, 07:49
Najam Sethi has consistently been one of the most astute observers of Pakistani politics and society. His dispassionate analysis brings out the hypocrisy and futility of some of the actions


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2d1qq6_aapas-ki-baat-21st-december-2014_news

For those who do not understand Urdu, the followings points stand out


Political parties across spectrum (except for MQM, PPP and ANP who have always been consistently opposed), as well as the military leadership of the past 14 years (Musharraf + Kiyani) have at various times expressed support for the Taliban. They are doing a volte face now, especially after gauging the public mood. These parties should be followed closely to ensure that they do not change their stance after the public anger dies down
Executions as an instrument of deterrence are useless. What happens when you execute failed suicide bombers? You make them martyrs, on the way to get the jannati hoors (celestial virgins)
There has been talks about a National action plan. This is also not very likely. The political parties have been at it for 9 months, with nothing to show for it. The only party competent enough to handle this is the military and they will not share anything with the politicians. They do not trust the politicians to keep any action plan a secret
To combat terrorism effectively the existing law and the courts have to be strengthened. The existing Ant Terorrism Courts have been useless in actual convictions, leading the military to take a no-prisoners approach during their Ops


All in all, lots of activity, but very little in the way of meaningful and sustainable ones:mad::frown:

1980s
24 Dec 14,, 19:33
theoretically, the concept of Pashtunwali as you and some other commentators see it would work against the Taliban and associated groups more than it would against the Pakistani military.
Only if you assume that TTP atrocities have been worse than that of the Pakistani army in FATA and Swat. Nobody really knows. Its a case of perceptions, and its the perceptions of the tribes that matter most.

TTP commander Omar Mansoor has shown no remorse for the army school massacre and has threatened that even more children of Pakistani army personal would be killed: Pakistan Taliban Vows More Killings of Military Children - WSJ (http://www.wsj.com/articles/pakistan-taliban-vows-more-killings-of-military-children-1418927695)

Its reports like these below, which go back several years and continue today, that give context to what and why Omar has threatened Pakistan as seen above:

Pakistani Army Accused of Waziristan Killings of Civilians - WSJ (http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303773704579268370987885880?mod=e2 tw)
Pakistan's IDPs reach record one million - Human Rights - Al Jazeera English (http://www.aljazeera.com/humanrights/2014/08/pakistan-idps-reach-record-one-million-201482712311342575.html)
'The Hands of Cruelty:' Abuses by Armed Forces and Taliban in Pakistan (http://www.amnestyusa.org/research/reports/the-hands-of-cruelty-abuses-by-armed-forces-and-taliban-in-pakistan-s-tribal-areas)
BBC News - Pakistan 'army air strike kills dozens of civilians' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8617843.stm)
BBC News - Pakistan army accused of extrajudicial killings in Swat (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-10667545)
Pakistani army accused of killing 55 civilians | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/oct/11/pakistan)

Omar's position is clearly way beyond 'jihad' against the Pakistani state. Like zraver has pointed out, his position is no doubt driven by his tribal-cultural code to take revenge against what he, and surely many among his clan and other Pashtun tribes, now perceive to be a Pakistani war on their people, not just on the TTP as rebels. This is the basis of where things can be seen to be now beyond a 'jihad' against the Pakistani state, and is moving towards an ethnic war. The attack on the Indo-Pak border crossing last month can also be seen in this light as being beyond 'jihad'. It was an attack that served no military or sectarian cause. It was a revenge attack that clearly carried ethnic overtones: TTP splinter groups claim Wagah attack; 60 dead - Pakistan - DAWN.COM (http://www.dawn.com/news/1142006/jundullah-claims-suicide-attack-near-wagah-border-45-dead)

Agnostic Muslim
24 Dec 14,, 22:41
Only if you assume that TTP atrocities have been worse than that of the Pakistani army in FATA and Swat. Nobody really knows. Its a case of perceptions, and its the perceptions of the tribes that matter most.

Any analysis of the recorded claims (we can limit these to reporting by media outlets for the purposes of consistency) of civilian casualties at the hands of the Pakistani military vs the TTP/associated extremists pretty clearly illustrates that TTP atrocities far outweigh any claimed civilian casualties at the hands of the military.

'Perception' is of course key, which is why I argued in my earlier post that State was at a disadvantage (irrespective of the fact that civilian casualties at the hands of the militants far outweighed civilian casualties at the hands of the military) by virtue of being the 'other' in the Tribal areas. The need to overcome that disadvantage was also why I argued that the military policy of displacing the local tribes who had vested interests in supporting the Taliban was in fact the correct one because it provided the opportunity to wean the non-Taliban tribesmen away from the TTP teat. That argument is borne out when one compares the comments and accounts from the IDP's, immediately after they were displaced, with their views and attitudes a couple of months later.


Omar's position is clearly way beyond 'jihad' against the Pakistani state.
Omar can take whatever position he wants while on the run, driven out of his support base. His ability to mold tribal perceptions in any significant manner (to bolster support for his policies and actions) required him to have a degree of access and control over the local populace which he/TTP no longer exercises.

... and surely many among his clan and other Pashtun tribes, now perceive to be a Pakistani war on their people, not just on the TTP as rebels.
This claim is simply not borne out by the attitudes and views expressed by the IDP's from FATA.


This is the basis of where things can be seen to be now beyond a 'jihad' against the Pakistani state, and is moving towards an ethnic war. The attack on the Indo-Pak border crossing last month can also be seen in this light as being beyond 'jihad'. It was an attack that served no military or sectarian cause. It was a revenge attack that clearly carried ethnic overtones: TTP splinter groups claim Wagah attack; 60 dead - Pakistan - DAWN.COM (http://www.dawn.com/news/1142006/jundullah-claims-suicide-attack-near-wagah-border-45-dead)
The attack at Wagah was nothing more than yet another cowardly and deliberate attack on a soft target, like many other cowardly and deliberate terrorist attacks in public places elsewhere in Pakistan.

The TTP didn't cast the attack in ethnic overtones, and the attack in Peshawar struck in the heartland of the Pashtun resulting in national outrage demands for revenge across ethnic lines, so I am curious about what exactly is driving your insistent claims that 'the war against the TTP is moving towards and ethnic war'? The verifiable facts on the ground certainly don't bear it out.

Officer of Engineers
25 Dec 14,, 08:30
Any analysis of the recorded claims An analysis of shit all proves one fucking thing. You and your country got not fucking clue!

The Russians responded by unleashing the Cossaks in Chechnya. Who are you going to unleash?

Agnostic Muslim
25 Dec 14,, 19:26
An analysis of shit all proves one fucking thing.
I wasn't talking about an 'analysis of shit all', I was talking about an analysis of the recorded claims of civilian casualties at the hands of the Pakistani military vs civilian casualties at the hands of the TTP/Associated groups in the context of the claims made by Zraver and 1980 that the fight against TTP terrorism in Pakistan was becoming an ethnic war.

Do you disagree, and if yes, why?


The Russians responded by unleashing the Cossaks in Chechnya. Who are you going to unleash?
This isn't an ethnic war - the Russians fought their way, we'll fight it ours. Time will tell who/what has/will be unleashed.

barangai
26 Dec 14,, 11:02
If this indeed was a pashtuns vs punjabi than why most of the fatalities due to talibs origin terrorism are in pashtun majority regions?

2013

Fatalities in Pakistan Region Wise 2013 (http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/database/fatilities_regionwise2013.htm)

2014

Fatalities in Pakistan Region Wise 2014 (http://www.satp.org/satporgtp/countries/pakistan/database/fatilities_regionwise2014.htm)

NOTE:Most of the civilian fatalities in Sindh are not due to talibs origin terrorism,but rather local terrorist outfits

Agnostic Muslim
29 Dec 14,, 20:35
Continuing on the subject of 'Pashtunwali' and 'most tribal Pashtun viewing the conflict in an ethnic Pashtun vs Punjabi or Tribal vs rest of Pakistan context', here is an excerpt from a piece highlighting the views of the residents of the village that one of the main Peshawar attack plotters hailed from. Along with highlighting the anger of his community and their condemnation of him and his ilk, what the account suggests is that there was no 'honor driven, glorious revenge' related motivation that drove Umar Naray (or others in his extended family) into joining the TTP and engaging in mass murder, not initially at least, and that locals who have suffered at the hands of the TTP are just as anxious for 'revenge'.

An enemy with four names | TNS - The News on Sunday (http://tns.thenews.com.pk/umar-mansoor-an-enemy-with-four-names/#.VKGqqV4MDA)

Double Edge
30 Dec 14,, 00:58
And if the blow back of supporting terrorists leads to the chickens coming home to roost such as a school or two inside being machine gunned in Pakistan then so be it - "strategic depth" is too valuable.
They're not going to give it up. Because the west & the PA both religiously believe Afghanistan is going to the dogs soon.

So the west & others will support their militias in Afghanistan and the PA have to counter it otherwise they might be looking at problems later on. Must have a horse in the race. The idea is support militant politics when the national army is not effective or does not have a monopoly on violence. The militias are more effective than the army. Syria & Iraq are examples in the middle east of this same policy in action. The Paks have sectarianism but its not there to the same extent in Afghanistan. This policy could engender it like it does in Syria & Iraq.

Keep them busy fighting each other so they don't have the resources to go beyond their states. Risky. There will be spill over.

Who pays the price ?

People on both sides of the Durand line and the militant supporters in terms of funds.

Both sides have their good & bad militants. The problem is how to get agreement on who is good and bad.

Batista
30 Dec 14,, 10:17
Sir,i am pashtun myself from baka khel and i am well aware of the ground realities.i don't want to argue further whether this is a pashtun vs punjabi or else as only the passage of time will prove that i was right

We are all united against talibs.Sir i might sound optimistic to you but we are at the edge of defeating talibs and talibanism.

You are not on the edge of defeating anything(terrorists seems to be having upper hand overall specially with their below the belt attacks) unless you remove the Good/Bad terrorists theory.You started Taliban and now you gotta suffer and have to pay some serious price.


Looks like the government is still confused on how to deal with terrorism.

Militants not dangerous to Pakistan should not be targeted: Sartaj - Pakistan - DAWN.COM (http://www.dawn.com/news/1145135)

But there has been a sort of retraction from the foreign office itself.

Sartaj Aziz statement on militant groups taken out of context: FO - Pakistan - DAWN.COM (http://www.dawn.com/news/1145311)

There is a reason why no one trusts Pakistan.They are getting beaten in their own game and web of lies.

So as expected Pakistan keeps the Good/Bad terrorist definition intact and contradicted it's own statement given regarding this after hundred kids were butchered.The statement of Sharif was just a hogwash for local and international people.

This was expected since the same terrorists who killed kids are always going to be the "assets".The life of kids/common people is much smaller in terms of the "bigger aim".


I must admit that,Dr Ashraf Ghani is perhaps not the best for Afghanistan but perhaps the best president in the region.He's honest and doesn't want to play double games at the hand of other neighbours such as India.

I hope that we will also help Afghanistan in eliminating Haqqani Group and to lead a peace deal with Quetta shura as Dr Ashraf Ghani has wished for

Afghan forces launch operation in areas bordering Pakistan - World - DAWN.COM (http://www.dawn.com/news/1152477/afghan-forces-launch-operation-in-areas-bordering-pakistan)

You always want Afganistan as your slave backyard and it has backfired in the long run.You "helped" Afganistan by pushing it towards Talibanization.It's actually Pakistan responsible for the state of Afganistan today and the whole region. Afgans(I know many at least) hates Pakistan today the way they ruined their country.


The airstrikes are made in Khyber agency and NW.They are already evacuated with upto 0.4Million IDPs from Khyber agency and upto 1.1Million IDPs from NW.You can watch the videos of NW and you won't spot any single civilian though alot of talibs can be spotted

Beside,Zaki ur Rehman is already arrested again.please keep yourself updated,thanks

Your "Court" seems like a joke since he gets arrested then gets bail then free then gets arrested.Seems like the whole pakistani establishment(Army/ISI/Govt/Court/Terrorists) is on the same page when comes to supporting GOOD TERRORISTS.

Keep yourself updated.

Mumbai attack 'mastermind' detained again - South Asia - Al Jazeera English (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/southasia/2014/12/mumbai-attack-mastermind-detained-again-pakistan-lakhvi-201412306744182306.html)
Zakiur Rehman Lakhvi bail: Angry Centre summons Pakistan envoy to New Delhi : India, News - India Today (http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/zakiur-rehman-lakhvi-bail-centre-summons-pakistan-envoy-to-new-delhi/1/409402.html)


Indian broadcaster NDTV reported on Tuesday that Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi has been detained for the second time in Pakistan a day after he was granted bail by an Islamabad court.

Batista
30 Dec 14,, 10:39
Only if you assume that TTP atrocities have been worse than that of the Pakistani army in FATA and Swat. Nobody really knows. Its a case of perceptions, and its the perceptions of the tribes that matter most.

TTP commander Omar Mansoor has shown no remorse for the army school massacre and has threatened that even more children of Pakistani army personal would be killed: Pakistan Taliban Vows More Killings of Military Children - WSJ (http://www.wsj.com/articles/pakistan-taliban-vows-more-killings-of-military-children-1418927695)

Its reports like these below, which go back several years and continue today, that give context to what and why Omar has threatened Pakistan as seen above:

Pakistani Army Accused of Waziristan Killings of Civilians - WSJ (http://www.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303773704579268370987885880?mod=e2 tw)
Pakistan's IDPs reach record one million - Human Rights - Al Jazeera English (http://www.aljazeera.com/humanrights/2014/08/pakistan-idps-reach-record-one-million-201482712311342575.html)
'The Hands of Cruelty:' Abuses by Armed Forces and Taliban in Pakistan (http://www.amnestyusa.org/research/reports/the-hands-of-cruelty-abuses-by-armed-forces-and-taliban-in-pakistan-s-tribal-areas)
BBC News - Pakistan 'army air strike kills dozens of civilians' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8617843.stm)
BBC News - Pakistan army accused of extrajudicial killings in Swat (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-10667545)
Pakistani army accused of killing 55 civilians | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/oct/11/pakistan)

Omar's position is clearly way beyond 'jihad' against the Pakistani state. Like zraver has pointed out, his position is no doubt driven by his tribal-cultural code to take revenge against what he, and surely many among his clan and other Pashtun tribes, now perceive to be a Pakistani war on their people, not just on the TTP as rebels. This is the basis of where things can be seen to be now beyond a 'jihad' against the Pakistani state, and is moving towards an ethnic war. The attack on the Indo-Pak border crossing last month can also be seen in this light as being beyond 'jihad'. It was an attack that served no military or sectarian cause. It was a revenge attack that clearly carried ethnic overtones: TTP splinter groups claim Wagah attack; 60 dead - Pakistan - DAWN.COM (http://www.dawn.com/news/1142006/jundullah-claims-suicide-attack-near-wagah-border-45-dead)

Add 1 to 3 Million Genocide of Bangladeshis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide) and 200,000+ Rapes by the Pak Army.The result is Bangladesh is a free country and going better than Pakistan today.

Overall 60,000+ killings due to WOT in Pakistan and mostly civilians... all due to Pak Army.

Add 50,000+ killings of Kashmiris all due to Pak Army.

Add 10,000+ killings of Baloch&Sindhis by Pak Army.Freedom struggle going on again like Bangladesh.

Add 3000 American civilians died in 9/11 executed by Osama and fully supported by Pak Army.

Add 15,000+ killings due to WOT(including 10,000 Afgan soldiers + 2300 Americans soldiers)

So... now you see who we are dealing with? A Terrorist State called Pakistan.

barangai
31 Dec 14,, 18:26
Add 1 to 3 Million Genocide of Bangladeshis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Bangladesh_genocide) and 200,000+ Rapes by the Pak Army.The result is Bangladesh is a free country and going better than Pakistan today.

Overall 60,000+ killings due to WOT in Pakistan and mostly civilians... all due to Pak Army.

Add 50,000+ killings of Kashmiris all due to Pak Army.

Add 10,000+ killings of Baloch&Sindhis by Pak Army.Freedom struggle going on again like Bangladesh.

Add 3000 American civilians died in 9/11 executed by Osama and fully supported by Pak Army.

Add 15,000+ killings due to WOT(including 10,000 Afgan soldiers + 2300 Americans soldiers)

So... now you see who we are dealing with? A Terrorist State called Pakistan.

When is indian govt set to declare Pakistan a terrorist state?

Batista
02 Jan 15,, 15:21
When is indian govt set to declare Pakistan a terrorist state?

Keep yourself updated since you are already declared one.Do you think you are so important that a ceremony has to be held(like Oscar) to give you that honour??

Just ask anyone what comes in mind when someone thinks about "Pakistan".You are officially the epicenter of Islamic Terrorism.

Congrats!!! Osama,Hafiz,Lakhwi,Mulla Omar are your chief guests and wins the prestigious trophy "Epicenter of Islamic Terrorism." !

Pakistan using terror proxies against India, US says - The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Pakistan-using-terror-proxies-against-India-US-says/articleshow/45040558.cms)


NEW DELHI: The world can no longer hide the fact that Pakistan is the global epicenter of terrorism. The US department of defense, in its latest six-monthly report on Afghanistan, says Pakistan uses its militants as "proxy forces to hedge against the loss of influence in Afghanistan and to counter India's superior military".

MEA's Syed Akbaruddin said, "If the international community is now acknowledging ... that terrorism derives support from Pakistan, it's something we welcome. It manifests growing acknowledgment... of the extent of Pakistan's involvement in international terrorism."

U.S. slams Pakistan for using militant proxies against India - The Hindu (http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/south-asia/us-slams-pakistan-for-using-militant-proxies-against-india/article6564475.ece)

38868


In an unusually candid report, the U.S. Pentagon has openly criticised Pakistan for using militant groups as proxies in a war against a “superior” Indian army, a step that could mark growing strategic closeness between Washington and New Delhi since Prime Minister Narendra Modi assumed office in May.

Pakistan: A headache for the rest of the world – The Express Tribune (http://tribune.com.pk/story/219346/pakistan-a-headache-for-the-rest-of-the-world/)


If the rest of the world equates Pakistan with terrorism and mayhem, it is for good reason and doesn’t mean that there is worldwide conspiracy to defame our good name, contrary to what our saviours in khaki would have us believe.
Pakistan is reaping the harvest of the past 30 years or so of its cultivation of the forces of bigotry, doublespeak, intolerance and hypocrisy in all aspects of its existence: Religious, social, political as well as intellectual.

Such is our infamy that whenever there is a lunatic who blows himself up in a foreign land, we wait anxiously, our fingers crossed, hoping that the perpetrator is not one of us. Our country accounts for more suicide bombings than Iraq or Afghanistan and has more than its fair share of sectarian and other hate crimes.

We keep blowing up our schools so that our girls don’t get an education, keep silencing our moderates who preach tolerance and keep living in the false belief that the world is out to get us. The fact is that for most of the rest of the world, which in any case is moving ahead, we are not more than a headache that refuses to go away.
Shame on all 180 million of us.

barangai
04 Jan 15,, 08:27
Keep yourself updated since you are already declared one.Do you think you are so important that a ceremony has to be held(like Oscar) to give you that honour??

Just ask anyone what comes in mind when someone thinks about "Pakistan".You are officially the epicenter of Islamic Terrorism.

Congrats!!! Osama,Hafiz,Lakhwi,Mulla Omar are your chief guests and wins the prestigious trophy "Epicenter of Islamic Terrorism." !

Pakistan using terror proxies against India, US says - The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Pakistan-using-terror-proxies-against-India-US-says/articleshow/45040558.cms)



U.S. slams Pakistan for using militant proxies against India - The Hindu (http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/south-asia/us-slams-pakistan-for-using-militant-proxies-against-india/article6564475.ece)

38868



Pakistan: A headache for the rest of the world – The Express Tribune (http://tribune.com.pk/story/219346/pakistan-a-headache-for-the-rest-of-the-world/)

Center for Terrorism and declared a terrorist state,both different my dear.

Read my post again and if you have any source claiming so,post it

kuku
04 Jan 15,, 10:19
Center for Terrorism and declared a terrorist state,both different my dear.

Read my post again and if you have any source claiming so,post it
Far as India is concerned use of terrorist organisations against India as a state policy would make Pakistan a terrorist state and not a centre of terrorism.
That definition would be exclusive though, for India and Pakistan are hostile enemies, unlike other nations who have faced terrorists trained in Pakistan.