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View Full Version : Erdoğan says America discovered by Muslims, wants mosque on Cuba hill



1980s
15 Nov 14,, 18:12
I think wandering around alone in a 1000 room empty palace has officially driven poor old Recep insane.

Erdoğan says America discovered by Muslims, wants mosque on Cuba hill (http://www.todayszaman.com/anasayfa_erdogan-says-america-discovered-by-muslims-wants-mosque-on-cuba-hill_364466.html)

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has said Muslims, not Christopher Columbus, were the first foreigners to set foot in America, suggesting the construction of a mosque on a Cuba hill where he said there used to be a mosque built by those Muslims.

“Latin America's contact with Islam dates back to 12th century. Muslims discovered America in 1178, not Christopher Columbus. Muslim sailors arrived in America 1178. Christopher Columbus mentions the existence of a mosque on hill along the Cuba coast. I would talk to my brothers in Cuba and a mosque would suit well on the top of that hill today as well. It is enough they [Cuban rulers] say okay. Islam had expanded in the American continent even before Columbus arrived,” Erdoğan said on Saturday while speaking in İstanbul at the 1st Latin American Countries Muslim Religious Leaders Summit hosted by Turkey's Directorate of Religious Affairs.

Cuba, one of the few remaining communist countries in the world and one of the most populated in the Caribbean with a population of 11 million, has a tiny Muslim minority. Muslims in the country have long complained that they have not a place to practice their religion collectively.

Turkey is known to be willing to build a mosque in the Cuban capital of Havana. A Turkish delegation travelled to Havana earlier this year to seek permission for a mosque in the capital. Turkish media reported last month that Cuban authorities rejected the request submitted by Turkey's Religious Affairs Foundation (TDV).

Bigfella
16 Nov 14,, 00:12
Looks like he is working from this stuff. Most of the claims are based on work by American scholars, but my bet is that the evidentiary base is WAY suspect. Some of it could be true, but most of it seems to be wild speculation. Gavin Menzies on speed.

Muslims Explore America? (http://www.islamicbulletin.org/newsletters/issue_17/explore.aspx)

I would also submit that the idea that Columbus was the first 'foreigner' to set foot in the Americas went out with the discovery that Vikings actually had settlements there. Between them & a few stray fishermen I think it is fair to say 'foreigners' got there well ahead of Islam.

troung
16 Nov 14,, 01:40
Turkey is known to be willing to build a mosque in the Cuban capital of Havana. A Turkish delegation travelled to Havana earlier this year to seek permission for a mosque in the capital. Turkish media reported last month that Cuban authorities rejected the request submitted by Turkey's Religious Affairs Foundation (TDV).

Another parade army for ISIS to stomp?

1980s
16 Nov 14,, 01:59
Looks like he is working from this stuff. Most of the claims are based on work by American scholars, but my bet is that the evidentiary base is WAY suspect. Some of it could be true, but most of it seems to be wild speculation. Gavin Menzies on speed.

Muslims Explore America? (http://www.islamicbulletin.org/newsletters/issue_17/explore.aspx)

I would also submit that the idea that Columbus was the first 'foreigner' to set foot in the Americas went out with the discovery that Vikings actually had settlements there. Between them & a few stray fishermen I think it is fair to say 'foreigners' got there well ahead of Islam.

Well Muslims believe that Mohammad flew to heaven on a flying horse-like creature with wings so i am not surprised that some Muslims might also believe that Muslims landed in America before Columbus did.

But such wild claims coming from a head of state is eyebrow raising at the very least.

Bigfella
16 Nov 14,, 03:13
Well Muslims believe that Mohammad flew to heaven on a flying horse-like creature with wings so i am not surprised that some Muslims might also believe that Muslims landed in America before Columbus did.

But such wild claims coming from a head of state is eyebrow raising at the very least.

Are there major religions that don't believe clearly made up stuff? Isn't that sort of the point.

As I said, the claims aren't all simply a 'Muslims did everything' fantasy but are based on the assertions of at least one American scholar. That doesn't make them true, but they are slightly above the level of just being made up.

Heads of state should stay away from questionable historical assertions, but they don't. I'm betting China has endorsed the Menzies stuff & the 'capitalism invented democracy' crap is pretty standard for US Presidents. I suspect there are countless other examples. Spinning shit to the masses is pretty much par for the course. The laughter & derision from other nations is not only ignored, it can be welcomed by the person making the claims.

In other news, Greece managed to include a famous part of Australia's coastline in a tourist promo. The excuse is that Greeks named the stars above.

Greece claims ownership of Twelve Apostles in tourism promotion (http://www.theage.com.au/national/greece-claims-ownership-of-twelve-apostles-in-tourism-promotion-20141115-11na9g.html)

DonBelt
16 Nov 14,, 03:55
But still... you hate to see the leader of a large, fairly modern nation that is a member of NATO making crazy claims. We like to think we are all part of a group of reasonable sensible nations and the crazy talk is done by the despot rulers of smaller, more backwards nations usually gripped in some violent or economic crisis.
It's not known for sure who the first non-American person was who "found" America, but at least with the Vikings and Columbus there is plenty of archeological evidence to back up the claims. Personally, I think the Paleo-Indians were the first to find America. They sailed here on an ice floe. I saw it on Ice Age: Continental drift.

Parihaka
16 Nov 14,, 05:07
There are very few politicians who aren't deluded. It comes with the job, the only question is who's the best at taking their meds.

kato
16 Nov 14,, 09:13
Next thing someone's gonna suggest that the Taino named Cuba after Quba. As in the village Mohammad made his first stop on his journey from Mecca to Medina, helping to build a mosque.


based on the assertions of at least one American scholar.
Could be worse, he could fall back on that Barry Fell guy who's been claiming a marking reading "Mohammad is the Prophet" dated 68 years after Mohammed's death was found in Nevada.

For a general view on the subject see:
The Muslim Discovery of America - Frederick William Dame - Google Books (http://books.google.de/books?id=bLaj_ekl7VsC&lpg=PA63&ots=BNTP_J6cOF&dq=muslims%201178%20america&pg=PA64#v=onepage&q=muslims%201178%20america&f=false)

Bigfella
16 Nov 14,, 10:01
Next thing someone's gonna suggest that the Taino named Cuba after Quba. As in the village Mohammad made his first stop on his journey from Mecca to Medina, helping to build a mosque.


So you're saying they didn't?????


Could be worse, he could fall back on that Barry Fell guy who's been claiming a marking reading "Mohammad is the Prophet" dated 68 years after Mohammed's death was found in Nevada.


Did you not read about the flying horses? (I think Fell gets a mention in the link I posted).

DonBelt
17 Nov 14,, 05:58
These the folks he is referring to?
9,000-year-old man yields secrets of America's earliest inhabitants | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/11/13/000-year-old-man-yields-secrets-america-earliest-inhabitants/?intcmp=ob_article_footer_mobile&intcmp=obnetwork)
The Kennewick Man Finally Freed to Share His Secrets | History | Smithsonian (http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/kennewick-man-finally-freed-share-his-secrets-180952462/?no-ist)

This guy predates Islam by about 7500 years.

SteveDaPirate
18 Nov 14,, 16:11
I think it is plausible that a number of groups "discovered" America without much ever coming of it. There is strong evidence that both the Chinese and Vikings were in the Americas prior to the Spanish, and I'm sure any number of poor bastards relying on the wind were shipwrecked there as well. In that sense, it is certainly possible that a group of muslims might have found their way to the Americas. (although clear evidence would be nice)

Yet a shipwreck or one way trip doesn't have much influence on history. The important difference between the Spanish and those that came before them, is that the Spanish were the first to establish more than a small settlement. The Spanish, and then the Europeans that followed them conquered and colonized the Americas, thus changing the course of history.

If Christopher Columbus's reception back in Europe had been a pat on the back and a lack of funding, the world today would look very different.

DonBelt
18 Nov 14,, 19:16
What would the outcome of WW-2 have been if North America had been a collection of small undeveloped tribal quasi-nations, feuding with themselves and encroaching Europeans instead of a couple of large developed modern states with large industrial bases? A different world indeed.

Mihais
18 Nov 14,, 20:09
What WW2 without America,Africa or Asia?
Gentlemen,there is no way an inferior tribe can exist or resist a competition driven outsider.Look at Amazon tribes these days.The only reason they still exist is because the rest of the world tries to stop loggers and miners.
America was in no way going to exist as the land of the stone age tribes until 2014.Even if absurdly,no other European settled it by sea,the Russians would have settled it by land.

Albany Rifles
18 Nov 14,, 20:37
Eff off, Erde!

Everyone knows it was Saint Brendan in the 6th Century and he built the Gungywamps of the COnnecticut River Valley!

Brendan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan)

Gungywamp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gungywamp)

kato
18 Nov 14,, 22:33
If Christopher Columbus's reception back in Europe had been a pat on the back and a lack of funding, the world today would look very different.
Eh, all Columbus brought home - every single time, even when he was shipped back in chains - was an idea of how to spin this whole thing in yet another lobby campaign, using industry contacts and mass media to create support for himself. Because realistically, each voyage was an even bigger disaster than the one before it.

Portugal would probably have fully taken Spain's position in the New World within five years if Columbus had failed to drum up the second voyage. Bartolome de Diaz was all set for it, with support of the crown. That's why Columbus got his support in the first place...

tbm3fan
19 Nov 14,, 00:53
Eff off, Erde!

Everyone knows it was Saint Brendan in the 6th Century and he built the Gungywamps of the COnnecticut River Valley!

Brendan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan)

Gungywamp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gungywamp)

Damn right, and he is who I named my son after being that he is half Irish...

zraver
19 Nov 14,, 03:22
So how did all that Great Lake's copper get to Egypt the Levant and what is now Turkey?

DonBelt
19 Nov 14,, 05:38
Polynesians.

zraver
19 Nov 14,, 05:45
Polynesians.

I thought it was the Lost Tribes of Israel who left behind the golden tablets found by Joseph Smith.... :P

So who wasn't in America prior to Columbus?

Officer of Engineers
19 Nov 14,, 05:53
So who wasn't in America prior to Columbus?The Americans.

Bigfella
19 Nov 14,, 08:07
So how did all that Great Lake's copper get to Egypt the Levant and what is now Turkey?

Could have been traded either east or west. Fishermen from the Iberian Peninsular & most likely elsewhere have had sporadic contact with Nth America for millennia.

zraver
19 Nov 14,, 15:28
Could have been traded either east or west. Fishermen from the Iberian Peninsular & most likely elsewhere have had sporadic contact with Nth America for millennia.


So yet another group in America....

Bigfella
19 Nov 14,, 20:44
So yet another group in America....

Hell yes. Hard to keep something that big in that part of the world a secret.

zraver
20 Nov 14,, 00:15
So prior to the 1200's we have (claimed, proven and/or suspected groups)

Polynesians, Japanese, Chinese, Basques, Vikings, Phoenicians, Egyptians, Romans, Irish, Asians that would become native Americans, Jews and the Solutreans (Proto-Europeans)

After the 1200's we have (claimed, proven and/or suspected groups)

Templars, Moslems, Lost Italians, Spanish, Dutch, French, English

After 1600- everyone else

DonBelt
20 Nov 14,, 00:46
We forgot the Russians - they owned Alaska and had settlements down the West coast.

zraver
20 Nov 14,, 00:51
We forgot the Russians - they owned Alaska and had settlements down the West coast.

Not until later on though.

bonehead
20 Nov 14,, 04:55
Without pictures…..it never happened. So sorry Erdogan

Big K
20 Nov 14,, 06:18
38502

it says: Erdogan is re-writing the history...

what a shame to have such.... i dont have right words to describe this social idiotness that covered us...

Bigfella
20 Nov 14,, 13:37
So prior to the 1200's we have (claimed, proven and/or suspected groups)

Polynesians, Japanese, Chinese, Basques, Vikings, Phoenicians, Egyptians, Romans, Irish, Asians that would become native Americans, Jews and the Solutreans (Proto-Europeans)

After the 1200's we have (claimed, proven and/or suspected groups)

Templars, Moslems, Lost Italians, Spanish, Dutch, French, English

After 1600- everyone else

Left out Africans who may have got to Sth America & the Carribean.

Albany Rifles
20 Nov 14,, 17:01
So how did all that Great Lake's copper get to Egypt the Levant and what is now Turkey?

Sharks with frickin laser beams on their head.....

zraver
20 Nov 14,, 23:14
Left out Africans who may have got to Sth America & the Carribean.

I left out the Africans because the bulk of them did not arrive y choice and was unaware they sailed the Atlantic.

Bigfella
21 Nov 14,, 04:59
Not talking about slavery Z. Strong possibility that Africans had some contact with Sth America before Columbus:


According to the abstract of Columbus's log made by Bartolomé de las Casas, the purpose of Columbus’s third voyage was to test both the claims of King John II of Portugal that “canoes had been found which set out from the coast of Guinea [West Africa] and sailed to the west with merchandise” as well as the claims of the native inhabitants of Hispaniola that “from the south and the southeast had come black people whose spears were made of a metal called guanín...from which it was found that of 32 parts: 18 were gold, 6 were silver, and 8 copper.”

Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact#Africans)