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bigross86
22 May 14,, 08:41
2017 and the End of Ethics (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/367010/2017-and-end-ethics-victor-davis-hanson)


DECEMBER 24, 2013 4:00 AM
2017 and the End of Ethics

Will the Obama-era hypocrisy continue when the next president takes office?

By Victor Davis Hanson

Will there be a scandal if the new political appointees at the IRS sic their auditors on Moveon.org? What will the Washington Post say should the new president keep Guantanamo Bay open for five more years, quadruple the number of drone missions, or decide to double renditions? Will it say that he was shredding the Constitution, or that he found the terror threat too great to honor past promises?

Will NPR run an exposé on our next president should she tap into Angela Merkel’s cell phone, or monitor the communications of Associated Press reporters — and their parents? Will investigative reporters go after the president should he falsely claim that an ambassador and three other U.S. personnel died in the Middle East during a video-sparked spontaneous riot? Or if he then jails the filmmaker for a year on a trumped-up parole-violation charge?

In other words, because for the past five years the members of the Washington press corps have abdicated their traditional adversarial role as watchdogs of the executive branch, can we still have watchdogs at all in 2017? If the next president falsely swears that his new health-care program will not affect citizens’ current coverage, what consequences could possibly follow? If the New York Times went after such perfidy in 2017, would the new president just say, “Where were you when Obama did it?”

If a conservative should be elected, and his Justice Department decided not to enforce federal gun laws in certain cities, would not the president say to his critics, “You were happy to ignore the flouting of federal immigration law in sanctuary cities, so why not exempt gun control too?”

Or if the new attorney general were Asian, and called his fellow Americans “cowards” over their inability to address past discrimination, or referred to Chinese- or Japanese-Americans as “my people,” how could African-American activists or any other group possibly object?

If, in 2017, we begin another five years of 7-plus percent unemployment, will the media call it a “jobless recovery” — as they have not since 2009, but most surely did in 2004 when George W. Bush ran for reelection with a jobless rate of a little over 5 percent?

What will court watchers do should the next president weigh in on pending trial cases — claiming, for example, that the son he never had would have resembled a murdered young man, or arguing that the police acted stupidly when they arrested a favorite of the president’s?

If our next president says there is a red line, ignores infractions of it, and then says he never said it, will the press go after her as it went after George W. Bush in 2003 when the promised stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction did not turn up in Iraq? If a debate moderator interrupts our next president’s reelection debate to incorrectly point out that his challenger is wrong about the facts, will we chastise her as unprofessional and ban her from further debates?

If a conservative president is elected, will the media object should he editorialize about personal success and wealth — suggesting that novice entrepreneurs should build their own businesses without federal help, reminding the struggling that they have not yet reached a point where they have made enough money, chiding some that we need to create wealth, not spread others’, or advising us that it is always the time to profit? Would the press object that the president’s serial and unsolicited sermonizing was proving a bit much? Or would he have to accuse doctors of lopping off limbs and ripping out tonsils for profit to win rebuke?

Will NBC object if our next president plays 150 rounds of golf in his first five years in office? Would it seem at all excessive to ABC if our next chief executive were declared a “god” by colleagues in the press corps, or if the president promised to lower the level of the seas and cool the planet?

In 2017, if the next president attempts to freeze new drilling on federal lands, only to brag that more oil and gas have been produced (on private land) during her tenure than ever before, how would CBS respond to such disingenuousness?

For that matter, in 2017 will novels again be written about killing the president, and prizes once more be awarded for docudramas about his assassination — and will he be called a “Nazi” and “Brown Shirt” by his political opponents, as President Bush was?

During the next presidency, will the filibuster still be bad, or will it suddenly be good again? Will there be a nuclear option again? Recess appointments? Executive orders? Signing statements? Votes against extending the debt ceiling? Are these again to be excesses, or is it a case of “It depends”?

What will the media do if the next president hires lobbyists, ignores the revolving door, or wins record donations from Goldman Sachs — while promising to run the most transparent administration in history? Will minority activists hound the next president should their constituents’ employment rate and income nosedive? Or is the answer to be, “It depends on the president’s race”?

If in 2017 the chief executive urges his supporters to “punish our enemies,” what will be the media reaction?

Will the Los Angeles Times object should the next president borrow $6 trillion in his first term? If we have four more years of zero interest, will that policy be deemed reckless and inflationary?

The predictable answer, of course, to all these questions is, again, “It depends.” If a liberal like Hillary Clinton wins, then the same exemptions will almost surely continue, even in the absence of the race card. But if a conservative should be elected, then the old hypocrisy will reappear and we will be treated to the damnation of a Christie, Paul, Rubio, or Cruz as “the worst president ever” or an “amiable dunce” or one of the other sorts of boilerplate disparagement accorded Reagan and the two Bushes.

Yet, I am not so sure that it will be quite that simple for a decade or so. We have become inured to the press as an adjunct Ministry of Truth and to the notion that the president feels that he can do whatever he wishes without much worry over public audit. Such obsequiousness and exemption are now institutionalized, just as, after the divine Emperor Augustus, there was little accountability for the emperors or free speech allowed in criticizing them. So we are entering a new period in presidential history, and it may be difficult to go back to the status quo ante 2009, when reporters were not state megaphones and the president paid a price for not telling the truth.

More likely, the members of the national press corps do not even now quite get it that they have been completely discredited. Whether they toady up to a liberal president or revert to standard criticism of a conservative, I doubt anyone will much care any more. If the next scandal is an open-mike slip to Putin, a linguistic flub like “corpse-man” for a Navy corpsman, a barefaced lie like swearing the president never spoke to his own disreputable uncle, or a complete distortion such as bragging of the energy production that she sought to stifle, the media will face a novel situation: If they object, then the public will wonder, “But why now all of a sudden?” If they keep silent, the public will shrug, “Oh, more of the same.”

Nor have we fully appreciated that a president who has supposedly taught constitutional law has done more to damage the Constitution than did Richard Nixon — and, so far, without consequences of any sort. The next president in theory can tap the communications of his opponents, pick and choose which laws are to be enforced and which are mere suggestions, and use federal agencies to monitor the politically suspect. He can go to, ignore, undermine, or praise the U.N. as he sees fit. He can bypass Congress to bomb a foreign country, and give pressure groups amnesty from any federal law he chooses. If the next president’s chief adviser claims that liberal Democrats are analogous to the mass-murdering Jonestown cult, would it really matter?

So we are living in scary times. The nation has grown used to the idea that what the president says is probably either untrue or irrelevant — and yet it does not really any more care which.

The people also assume that it doesn’t matter if our pundits talk of the person in the White House as a “messiah” who prompts tingling legs, or if they take notice of perfect pant-leg creases, or, of course, if they declare that he is the smartest president ever.

The result, in the Age of Obama, is a deeply rooted cynicism that works out something like the following: The president of the United States is now an iconic figure and thus cannot be held to the minimal standards of veracity demanded of other Americans. The press is an advocate of his agenda and picks and chooses which scandals can be half-heartedly pursued without endangering their shared vision.

How could the media possibly repair its sullied reputation without appearing abjectly hypocritical or artificially zealous? How can the next president resist assuming the extra-constitutional prerogatives of the current one?

We have three years before January 2017. If we are to have any credible press left at all, it has just 36 months to rediscover its ethics and professionalism — or more or less forfeit its integrity for a generation. The president too must either start respecting the Constitution or expect that his successors will follow in his footsteps in pressing their agendas by any means necessary — while always citing the Obama example. Will the next president simply drop the employer-mandate portion of Obamacare? And if he did, would the media point out that he was not faithfully executing the laws that had been enacted?

Because we are now right in the middle of this conundrum, Americans often fail to appreciate how low we’ve sunk — and how little time our president and press have to restore the institutions that they have so undermined for such paltry political advantage.

— NRO contributor Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and the author, most recently, of The Savior Generals.

DOR
23 May 14,, 04:41
NRO contributor Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and the author, most recently, of The Savior Generals.

Doktor
23 May 14,, 11:11
NRO contributor Victor Davis Hanson is a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution and the author, most recently, of The Savior Generals.

Sarcasm much?

DOR
24 May 14,, 06:28
It seemed more polite than just saying "check source."

Parihaka
24 May 14,, 06:56
Somebody who actually examines the democrat party rather than reprint their press releases?

Parihaka
24 May 14,, 08:03
There is a woman. Her name is Meriam Ibrahim. In roughly 1 months time she will be taken from the cell where she and her 2 year old son are currently shackled. She will be permitted to give birth to the child she currently carries then will receive one hundred lashes before being beheaded. Her crime is that she refused to convert from Christianity to Islam. She is married to an American citizen and so is entitled to citizenship herself. Her two year old son and her unborn child are both American citizens.

Apart from 'right wing crazies' sites you will most likely not see this reported in the United States. You will continue to see photos of Michelle Obama holding up signs saying @bringbackourgirls.

Doktor
24 May 14,, 08:09
Pari, I think that applying for citizenship must be done in person. She ever applied for one? Was it granted?

Is her born son really a US citizen? Moreover, how can you give a citizenship to an unborn?

Short of sending SOF guys to extract her from Sudan, I can't see what US Administration can do overtly, but some noise.

Media angle is not surprising me at all.

Parihaka
24 May 14,, 08:25
Pari, I think that applying for citizenship must be done in person. She ever applied for one? Was it granted?
yes and 'in progress', she is automatically entitled but US immigration has failed in three years so far to complete the paperwork.


Is her born son really a US citizen? Moreover, how can you give a citizenship to an unborn?
yes and when born the child will be a US citizen

zraver
24 May 14,, 08:46
Pari, I think that applying for citizenship must be done in person. She ever applied for one? Was it granted?

Is her born son really a US citizen? Moreover, how can you give a citizenship to an unborn?

All children born to an American citizen, or legitimized at birth as having an American father (no war bastards) are American citizens.

sated buddha
24 May 14,, 08:53
All children born to an American citizen, or legitimized at birth as having an American father (no war bastards) are American citizens.

What about kids born to non-American parents on American soil? Either on American soil officially (on Visa, etc.), or unofficially (illegals)?

Doktor
24 May 14,, 09:04
What about kids born to non-American parents on American soil? Either on American soil officially (on Visa, etc.), or unofficially (illegals)?

How lazy are you on Saturdays? :biggrin:

Birthright citizenship in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States)

Doktor
24 May 14,, 09:07
All children born to an American citizen, or legitimized at birth as having an American father (no war bastards) are American citizens.

Doesn't sound like something that is done automatically, but I am sure you are right.


If one parent is a U.S. citizen and the other parent is not, the child is a citizen if
the U.S. citizen parent has been "physically present"[8] in the U.S. before the child's birth for a total period of at least five years, and
at least two of those five years were after the U.S. citizen parent's fourteenth birthday.[9]

sated buddha
24 May 14,, 09:08
How lazy are you on Saturdays? :biggrin:

Birthright citizenship in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States)

:) Thanks.

Gun Grape
24 May 14,, 09:18
There is a woman. Her name is Meriam Ibrahim. In roughly 1 months time she will be taken from the cell where she and her 2 year old son are currently shackled. She will be permitted to give birth to the child she currently carries then will receive one hundred lashes before being beheaded. Her crime is that she refused to convert from Christianity to Islam. She is married to an American citizen and so is entitled to citizenship herself. Her two year old son and her unborn child are both American citizens.

Apart from 'right wing crazies' sites you will most likely not see this reported in the United States. You will continue to see photos of Michelle Obama holding up signs saying @bringbackourgirls.

No she is not automatically entitled to US citizenship. She can apply to emigrate on a marriage visa. That does not give her citizenship, that gets her a "green card".

The children may, or may not be US Citizens. The father is a naturalized citizen. Acquired citizenship in 2005. Travels back and forth to Sudan. For the child to have "Birthright citizenship, the father must have been physically present for 5 years in the US. His time in Sudan does not count. Also The U.S. citizen parent must be the genetic or the gestational parent and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the child’s birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.

It sounds like he did not previously register the marriage, nor the birth of his first son with the US Embassy. Now they want proof.

This from the Dailymail
Mr Wani said that when he appealed to the State Department for help in freeing his condemned wife and child from prison, he was asked to provide DNA evidence proving that the toddler was his biological son.

‘I will have to take a DNA sample in Khartoum, then send it to the USA for testing,’ Wani told the news site Morning Star News. ‘I have provided wedding documents and the baby’s birth certificate, and doors were closed on his face.

As for not seeing this reported on anything but "right wing crazy sites", I read about it on CNN.

U.S. to Sudan: release Christian woman – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/20/will-sudan-really-execute-a-pregnant-christian-woman/)

It was also reported at CBS

Senators try to save pregnant woman sentenced to death in Sudan - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/senators-try-to-save-pregnant-woman-sentenced-to-death-in-sudan/)

And on the TV news ABC.CBS,NBC,CNN, MSNBC. Yep all the right wing crazy places:whome:;)

Parihaka
24 May 14,, 09:23
Doesn't sound like something that is done automatically, but I am sure you are right.

And if you actually google Meriam Ibrahim you will see her husband, the father, fits all the criteria. As do the children. As does Miriam.

The only criteria they don't fit is the democrat narrative, therefor the story remains untold within the US, the point of the original OP and this particular example.
I have plenty more, would you like a list?

Parihaka
24 May 14,, 09:46
No she is not automatically entitled to US citizenship. She can apply to emigrate on a marriage visa. That does not give her citizenship, that gets her a "green card".

The children may, or may not be US Citizens. The father is a naturalized citizen. Acquired citizenship in 2005. Travels back and forth to Sudan. For the child to have "Birthright citizenship, the father must have been physically present for 5 years in the US. His time in Sudan does not count. Also The U.S. citizen parent must be the genetic or the gestational parent and the legal parent of the child under local law at the time and place of the child’s birth to transmit U.S. citizenship.

It sounds like he did not previously register the marriage, nor the birth of his first son with the US Embassy. Now they want proof.

This from the Dailymail

As for not seeing this reported on anything but "right wing crazy sites", I read about it on CNN.

U.S. to Sudan: release Christian woman – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/05/20/will-sudan-really-execute-a-pregnant-christian-woman/)

It was also reported at CBS

Senators try to save pregnant woman sentenced to death in Sudan - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/senators-try-to-save-pregnant-woman-sentenced-to-death-in-sudan/)

And on the TV news ABC.CBS,NBC,CNN, MSNBC. Yep all the right wing crazy places:whome:;)

Cool, she can die then knowing a religious blog and one report on CNN have reported her fate, plus you've seen it on TV somewhere. :whome:;)

Doktor
24 May 14,, 10:00
And if you actually google Meriam Ibrahim you will see her husband, the father, fits all the criteria. As do the children. As does Miriam.
She and the children apparently are not US citizens. WHy the US should be the only ones voicing her release? There are sever countries with the cross on their flags who could at least pretend they care.


The only criteria they don't fit is the democrat narrative, therefor the story remains untold within the US, the point of the original OP and this particular example.
Point well taken and agreed in the first reply.


I have plenty more, would you like a list?
Sure, since it is in line with the OP.

Gun Grape
24 May 14,, 10:14
Cool, she can die then knowing a religious blog and one report on CNN have reported her fate, plus you've seen it on TV somewhere. :whome:;)

No, Its been on all the news stations. And their web sites. Sorry it doesn't fit your notion of "Uninformed Americans and their leftest news"


And if you actually google Meriam Ibrahim you will see her husband, the father, fits all the criteria. As do the children. As does Miriam.

Do you know for a fact that the family all meet the criteria for US citizenship? Or you using Google as your definitive source?

If it was "Marry an American citizen and you automatically become one yourself, as do any children" my, foreign national wife of 23 years would have become a US citizen 23 years ago. And we were married in the US.

Its not that simple. And just a quick look at the story leads doubt to her claim of citizenship.

Parihaka
24 May 14,, 10:16
Sure, since it is in line with the OP.

This is current so we don't need to play 'who said what when'. To be fair, the daily Kos ran it a day after everyone else
New O’Keefe video “punks” Hollywood enviros « Hot Air (http://hotair.com/archives/2014/05/21/new-okeefe-video-punks-hollywood-enviros/)

Doktor
24 May 14,, 10:20
No, Its been on all the news stations. And their web sites. Sorry it doesn't fit your notion of "Uninformed Americans and their leftest news"

Thing is a lost airplane and kidnapped girls in Nigeria gets more coverage. It could have been reported, but I guess more hoopla was given about how the sun is hot or that it will rain tomorrow. It's all up to the editors and if they think the story is relevant and interesting, all in line with their other (political) agenda. The last part is only a speculation of course.

Parihaka
24 May 14,, 10:27
No, Its been on all the news stations. And their web sites. Sorry it doesn't fit your notion of "Uninformed Americans and their leftest news"
cool, let's see them! other than the two you found, three days after world press (and Fox News) filed their first reports post conviction.



Do you know for a fact that the family all meet the criteria for US citizenship? Or you using Google as your definitive source?

If it was "Marry an American citizen and you automatically become one yourself, as do any children" my, foreign national wife of 23 years would have become a US citizen 23 years ago. And we were married in the US.

Its not that simple. And just a quick look at the story leads doubt to her claim of citizenship.

Right so. They were married in 2011. The boy is 2. The other child is unborn. Her husband is American. Well, I suppose she's a slut and had the kids to other fathers after she married him. Nice.

Is your wife allowed to live in the US with you?

Gun Grape
24 May 14,, 20:00
cool, let's see them! other than the two you found, three days after world press (and Fox News) filed their first reports post conviction.

Its just a google inquiry away. See for yourself.




Right so. They were married in 2011. The boy is 2. The other child is unborn. Her husband is American. Well, I suppose she's a slut and had the kids to other fathers after she married him. Nice.

Or you have no clue as to what it takes for her to become an American citizen.

Lets throw out some facts here.

The Husband was Naturalized in 2005. Still owns businesses and a home in Sudan. Makes frequent trips there. This according to the daily mail article.
Married his wife , in Sudan, in 2011.
Just recently went to the US Embassy to try to get her out. That is when he produced the wedding certificate and the birth certificate for his 20 month old son.

So from 2011 till the present time, he neither registered his marriage with the US Embassy. Nor did he apply for immigration status for his wife. She does not become a US citizen on the spot, just because she marries an American.

20 months ago, he didn't register the birth of his son with the US Embassy. Nothing happens till there is a Consular Report of Birth Abroad of a Citizen of the United States of America. That starts the process of determining if the child is a US citizen.

If the child is a citizen, then the US will issue a Passport and Social Security number.

When the Father is the American citizen of a child born overseas, and the father is Naturalized, there are certain conditions that must be met for the child to have US citizenship.

One of the most important is that the Father must have resided in the US for 5 years prior to the birth.

Thats easy you say, He was naturalized in sometime in 2005 and the baby was born around Sept of 2012. That is 6-7 years, kid is in there. No brainer.

Not so fast, those 5 years don't have to be continuous but any time spent outside of the US doesn't count. So in those 6-7 years prior to the birth of his son, how much time did he spend in Sudan tending to his businesses and living on his ranch? Does he have enough time in the US to meet the 5 year residency requirement? So the childs "birthright citizenship" claim is not a sure thing.

Did he maintain his "Principal residence" in the US? He lived at his brothers home in the US but owned a home in Sudan. Which one would be considered a "Principal Residence"?

Next the wife. They got married, in Sudan in 2011. But they did not register the marriage with the Embassy. No paperwork has been started to get her conditional permanent resident status, or allow her in the States with a marriage visa.

Does she meet the criteria for a marriage visa and immigrant alien status based on that marriage?

Well according to the law the they have got to have a valid marriage under local law for any of that pesky immigration stuff to start happening.

What was she in jail for? Oh yea, adultery. Why? Not because of those nasty things you accused her of doing, But because the Laws of her country do not allow a marriage between a Muslim woman and a Christian man.

They did not get married in the US Embassy and the marriage they had was against the laws of the host country. Things are not looking good here.

Maybe that why New Hampshire's Senator asked the State Dept to grant her Political Asylum. Doesn't look like she qualifies for other types of immigration status.




Is your wife allowed to live in the US with you?

Yes she is. But then again, I went through the proper steps. As did she. Not a citizen from the day we were married. She had to spend a few years as a Immigrant Alien. Then as a Resident Alien. Now she is a Permanent Alien.

And we were married in the States. She was here on a student Visa


And it seems that while Sudan has sentenced people to death for apostasy. They haven't actually executed anyone for it in over 20 years.

tbm3fan
24 May 14,, 21:04
cool, let's see them! other than the two you found, three days after world press (and Fox News) filed their first reports post conviction.



Right so. They were married in 2011. The boy is 2. The other child is unborn. Her husband is American. Well, I suppose she's a slut and had the kids to other fathers after she married him. Nice.

Is your wife allowed to live in the US with you?

I knew about this more than 3 days ago but couldn't tell you where I read it.

I think Gun Grape has now given you a very good crash course in how US citizenship works. My wife was also a foreign national when she came over on a fiance visa. There were about 12 months of prior paperwork on my part, then more when she got in when the 3 months of the fiance visa were up, and then the application process for green card, next permanent residency before the final application for US citizenship.

Doktor
24 May 14,, 21:13
Sounds easier to just smuggle your wife and wait for some liberal to legalize their status.

Being nasty here a bit, but the procedure seems too complicated to be done via proper channels all the while you have many illegal immigrants reaping from the system bugs.

tbm3fan
24 May 14,, 22:49
See this is where the term liberal is used far too often as a description. I consider myself to be far more often liberal than conservative.

Having said that if you are an illegal alien then you should have filed the application papers and paid the fees I did or... Get Out!

Same would go for the death penalty. Murder someone then forfeit your life and whether it is humane or not doesn't concern me
anymore than it concerned you when you killed someone. Firing squad is quicker.

But I am still a liberal and all those self poll sites on the web say so.

Doktor
24 May 14,, 22:53
It's a broad brush, the liberal term, but couldn't think for a better one in the moment. Still can't. Sorry if it offended you.

Gun Grape
24 May 14,, 23:06
Sounds easier to just smuggle your wife and wait for some liberal to legalize their status.


You mean like the last President to grant amnesty to illegals?

That Liberal Icon, President Ronald Wilson Reagan:biggrin:

Doktor
24 May 14,, 23:10
You mean like the last President to grant amnesty to illegals?

That Liberal Icon, President Ronald Wilson Reagan:biggrin:

Shush... he supported unions ;)

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 00:49
Yes, because this thread is all about immigration and how badly previous presidents have done. Um wait.......

Still, it only took seven hours to get the info, and we now know it's all about Reagan. :biggrin:

Nothing to see here, moveon........

tbm3fan
25 May 14,, 01:59
It's a broad brush, the liberal term, but couldn't think for a better one in the moment. Still can't. Sorry if it offended you.

Not offended but you are right it is a broad brush. Of course, you didn't originate it but have fallen into the trap of using it nonetheless, which is the intent of it to begin with. One would think that as time advances and the world becomes a little more modern we wouldn't have to deal with this kind of containerization and demonizing. Yet it seems far far worse today that several decades ago. I feel that the media of today really makes it easier to do this than in the past. Paint the other side, and there is only one other side, black and imply you are white. Naturally the other side does the same thing and there you have it as in Yankees vs. Red Sox completely forgetting there are many other teams/shades of grey out there you have to play or talk to.

Demonizing the Other Side | A Word for the Week (http://pastorsteve51.wordpress.com/2013/01/22/demonizing-the-other-side/)

Now as to this women she clearly is not an American citizen just like my wife wasn't when she married me a natural born citizen. I am incensed that a country, in this day and age, could even contemplate executing someone because of their religious belief. Shades of the dark ages where one religion seems to be in a pell mell rush back to it. However, I am not prepared to make an exception to how we determine US citizenship. Once such an exemption is made then the gates open for others to say the exemption applies to them. Given that, all any nation can do, is exert as much worldwide condemnation as possible not that a country, like Sudan, even cares.

Now a liberal may say someone should use force of arms to get her. Well I am not on board with that. The world is a bad place in many locations and frankly I have to say I put a large amount of fault on the husband for not protecting his wife in a country where he knows how they think. He should have preempted this by getting her out when he had the time before the authorities found out.

Bigfella
25 May 14,, 02:45
I'll leave the immigration stuff to GG, who clearly knows a great deal more about this than most of us here.

As for this:


Apart from 'right wing crazies' sites you will most likely not see this reported in the United States. You will continue to see photos of Michelle Obama holding up signs saying @bringbackourgirls.

Bullshit.


The only criteria they don't fit is the democrat narrative, therefor the story remains untold within the US, the point of the original OP and this particular example.
I have plenty more, would you like a list?

Bullshit x2.

The only 'narrative' that doesn't fit the facts here is yours.


cool, let's see them! other than the two you found, three days after world press (and Fox News) filed their first reports post conviction.


By this point you were retreating faster than an Italian Army and putting up about as convincing a defence.

GG's reports were dated May 19 & 20, so presumably Fox got to this on the 16th. Looks like they were late to the party.

CNN May 14 (check the url), though updated on the 15th. One of at least ten stories on this issue that week.

Christian woman could face death for her faith in Sudan - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/14/world/africa/sudan-christian-woman-apostasy/index.html?iref=allsearch)


NYT, May 15

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/16/world/africa/sudan-woman-sentenced-to-death-after-refusing-to-renounce-her-faith.html?_r=0

LA Times May 15

Sudan woman sentenced to death after refusing to renounce Christianity*-*Los Angeles Times (http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-sudan-court-sharia-christianity-20140515-story.html)

NBC, originally published May 15

Pregnant Christian Woman in Sudan Sentenced to Death for Apostasy - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pregnant-christian-woman-sudan-sentenced-death-apostasy-n105961)

CBS May 15. The first of 3 reports that week (Gunny got the second one).

​Sudan woman Meriam Ibrahim sentenced to death over Christian faith - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sudan-woman-meriam-ibrahim-sentenced-to-death-over-christian-faith/)

ABC America, May 15. The first of 4 stories that week.

Sudanese Woman Sentenced to Death for 'Apostasy' - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/sudanese-woman-sentenced-death-apostasy-23728521)

Daily Kos, May 16.

The Breakfast Club: 5-16-2014 (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/16/1299763/-The-Breakfast-Club-5-16-2014#)

HuffPo May 15.

In Sudan, Pregnant Woman Accused Of 'Apostasy' Sentenced To Death (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/15/sudan-woman-apostasy_n_5331117.html)

Any 'liberal' or 'left wing' media we missed?


Cool, she can die then knowing a religious blog and one report on CNN have reported her fate, plus you've seen it on TV somewhere. :whome:;)

I'm sure she will be even more pleased to die knowing that some guy on the internet used her impending death to make some bullshit allegations of media bias vin the US based soley on his inability to use google.

Feel free to admit you were wrong any time Pari. This has been well covered in the US across all media.

This has already received more coverage in high profile media than the deaths of thousands of 'witches' in Africa (mostly old women & children) over the past decade. Guess that doesn't fit anybody's narrative.

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 06:51
I'll leave the immigration stuff to GG, who clearly knows a great deal more about this than most of us here.

As for this:



Bullshit.



Bullshit x2.

The only 'narrative' that doesn't fit the facts here is yours.



By this point you were retreating faster than an Italian Army and putting up about as convincing a defence.

GG's reports were dated May 19 & 20, so presumably Fox got to this on the 16th. Looks like they were late to the party.

CNN May 14 (check the url), though updated on the 15th. One of at least ten stories on this issue that week.

Christian woman could face death for her faith in Sudan - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/14/world/africa/sudan-christian-woman-apostasy/index.html?iref=allsearch)


NYT, May 15

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/16/world/africa/sudan-woman-sentenced-to-death-after-refusing-to-renounce-her-faith.html?_r=0

LA Times May 15

Sudan woman sentenced to death after refusing to renounce Christianity*-*Los Angeles Times (http://www.latimes.com/world/africa/la-fg-sudan-court-sharia-christianity-20140515-story.html)

NBC, originally published May 15

Pregnant Christian Woman in Sudan Sentenced to Death for Apostasy - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pregnant-christian-woman-sudan-sentenced-death-apostasy-n105961)

CBS May 15. The first of 3 reports that week (Gunny got the second one).

​Sudan woman Meriam Ibrahim sentenced to death over Christian faith - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/sudan-woman-meriam-ibrahim-sentenced-to-death-over-christian-faith/)

ABC America, May 15. The first of 4 stories that week.

Sudanese Woman Sentenced to Death for 'Apostasy' - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/sudanese-woman-sentenced-death-apostasy-23728521)

Daily Kos, May 16.

The Breakfast Club: 5-16-2014 (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/16/1299763/-The-Breakfast-Club-5-16-2014#)

HuffPo May 15.

In Sudan, Pregnant Woman Accused Of 'Apostasy' Sentenced To Death (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/15/sudan-woman-apostasy_n_5331117.html)

Any 'liberal' or 'left wing' media we missed?



I'm sure she will be even more pleased to die knowing that some guy on the internet used her impending death to make some bullshit allegations of media bias vin the US based soley on his inability to use google.

Feel free to admit you were wrong any time Pari. This has been well covered in the US across all media.

This has already received more coverage in high profile media than the deaths of thousands of 'witches' in Africa (mostly old women & children) over the past decade. Guess that doesn't fit anybody's narrative.

And so we play the date game. Do you want to see the reports from April?
Here ya go
Pregnant Woman in Sudan Could Be Executed for (http://morningstarnews.org/2014/04/pregnant-woman-in-sudan-could-be-executed-for-apostasy-whipped-for-adultery/)
Where's CNN/CBS then? Want to do another search? Maybe try like GG to deflect with claims like the kids may not be his?
Or 'oh, others suffer as well so fuck off'?

You know perfectly well BF that were these NZ, Australian, Canadian citizens it would be all over prime news. Since it doesn't fit a US democratic agenda, you have to go searching playing 'this was a day before that'. (Unless of course you go to Fox or Steyn or the religious blogs who've been covering it extensively from the get go.)
GG, despite saying he'd heard all about it had to go searching to even understand whether or not the boy and unborn child were American and devolved to questioning whether the children were actually the fathers.

Feel free to admit anytime BF that your only interested in defending liberal agenda.

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 07:17
I'm sure she will be even more pleased to die knowing that some guy on the internet used her impending death to make some bullshit allegations of media bias vin the US based soley on his inability to use google.
.

Sod it, I wasn't going to use it but the utter hypocrisy was to much to pass up

36923
:)

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 07:18
I mean, using the abduction and slavery of these girls for political purposes. ;) does she have no shame?

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 08:20
Anyway, when you can come back with something other than 'they're not real americans', they're probably not his', 'you're a wanker cause other people don't get your attention the way you've done here' let me know.
Back to the OP, dismissed by dear DOR because the writer and platform are not to his democrat liking: How about the Indiana University (sans doubt dismissible because some Republicans live in Indiana but nevertheless)
Just 7 percent of journalists are Republicans. That’s far fewer than even a decade ago. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/05/06/just-7-percent-of-journalists-are-republicans-thats-far-less-than-even-a-decade-ago/?wprss=rss_the-fix&clsrd)

Officer of Engineers
25 May 14,, 08:26
Shades of Senator/General Dallaire and Rwanda. Not our fight ... and not the nightmares that we will asking our men to suffer if they go in.

Bigfella
25 May 14,, 08:34
And so we play the date game. Do you want to see the reports from April?
Here ya go
Pregnant Woman in Sudan Could Be Executed for (http://morningstarnews.org/2014/04/pregnant-woman-in-sudan-could-be-executed-for-apostasy-whipped-for-adultery/)
Where's CNN/CBS then? Want to do another search?


Your game Pari. Getting snarky every time someone picks apart one of your arguments simply highlights how poorly based they have been. I'm also over doing your research for you.


You know perfectly well BF that were these NZ, Australian, Canadian citizens it would be all over prime news.


She isn't an citizen of one of those nations and it IS all over the news. Wrong again.

If you want to discuss the double standard of African deaths getting less coverage than white ones have at it, but you just want to keep repeating a political point you can't prove.


Since it doesn't fit a US democratic agenda, you have to go searching playing 'this was a day before that'. (Unless of course you go to Fox or Steyn or the religious blogs who've been covering it extensively from the get go.)


Once again, you are the one who was playing the 'date game' and it blew up in your face. I showed coverage from the full suite of 'left wing/liberal' media and the best you can do is keep repeating a patently false assertion. Pretty sad stuff Pari.


GG, despite saying he'd heard all about it had to go searching to even understand whether or not the boy and unborn child were American and devolved to questioning whether the children were actually the fathers.

Literally every line you post your arguments get worse. 'Heard about' is just that. Doesn't mean he is going to be across the fine detail because he caught a story on the news or saw a headline on a website.

Having initially made claims that have been shown to be 100% false you have now desperately resorted to a 'bias is when someone doesn't cover a story in the EXACT same way I think they should' standard. It is a BS standard and you know it.


Feel free to admit anytime BF that your only interested in defending liberal agenda.

Yet another deflection. You can't back up your claims so you are resorting to name calling. Just admit you got it wrong Pari.

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 09:21
Your game Pari. Getting snarky every time someone picks apart one of your arguments simply highlights how poorly based they have been. I'm also over doing your research for you.
Not even going to bother, you want to piss on the trees to deny the forest, knock yourself out.



She isn't an citizen of one of those nations and it IS all over the news. Wrong again. And here we go. Despite me posting it multiple times, and all those links you and GG have supposedly read and all the other pure bullshit both him and now you have posted, I still have to point out the FUCKING OBVIOUS.

She is married to an American. She has been married to that American since 2011. She is so devout in her Christianity that she refuses to renounce it even under threat of execution. So she must be a slut and lying about the parentage of THE TWO YEAR OLD SON AND UNBORN CHILD!
GG will of course espouse no end of reasons (including that she may have slept around) why those two children aren't American and you'll lap it up and repeat it, but answer me this. If these two children aren't American, having an American father, then why the fuck should you have Australian citizenship, why the fuck should I have New Zealand citizenship, and if he has any, why the fuck should GG's children have American citizenship. After all, his missus isn't American?



If you want to discuss the double standard of African deaths getting less coverage than white ones have at it, but you just want to keep repeating a political point you can't prove.



Once again, you are the one who was playing the 'date game' and it blew up in your face. I showed coverage from the full suite of 'left wing/liberal' media and the best you can do is keep repeating a patently false assertion. Pretty sad stuff Pari.



Literally every line you post your arguments get worse. 'Heard about' is just that. Doesn't mean he is going to be across the fine detail because he caught a story on the news or saw a headline on a website.

Having initially made claims that have been shown to be 100% false you have now desperately resorted to a 'bias is when someone doesn't cover a story in the EXACT same way I think they should' standard. It is a BS standard and you know it.



Yet another deflection. You can't back up your claims so you are resorting to name calling. Just admit you got it wrong Pari.

So, all we've got is ad hominems, straw men and frankly blatant racism from two of you about those Sudanese slut and fake American trying to pull a swifty on poor old American democrats. And you reckon I'm sad.

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 11:18
Anyway, when you can come back with something other than 'they're not real americans', they're probably not his', 'you're a wanker cause other people don't get your attention the way you've done here' let me know.
Back to the OP, dismissed by dear DOR because the writer and platform are not to his democrat liking: How about the Indiana University (sans doubt dismissible because some Republicans live in Indiana but nevertheless)
Just 7 percent of journalists are Republicans. That’s far fewer than even a decade ago. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/05/06/just-7-percent-of-journalists-are-republicans-thats-far-less-than-even-a-decade-ago/?wprss=rss_the-fix&clsrd)
So DOR, any response to the Indiana Survey? Klu Kluxers maybe?

Doktor
25 May 14,, 11:29
Pari, why you insist that the spouse/wife and the born and unborn child are US citizens?

If they were born to a Macedonian father and a foreign mother (she still has no citizenship) on a foreign soil, they wouldn't automatically obtain the citizenship, lurking around it seems even in NZ one has to apply for it and follow descent procedure.

The difference between you, BF and GG's kids (if any) is that a proper procedure has been followed. I am still to hear about a country where they send emissaries in abroad hospital with ready certificates for newborns if one of their citizens is the parent.

Now is about time for Yeller to come and post Why can't we be friends.

snapper
25 May 14,, 11:34
From what I read a similar 'establishment' media campaign has been waged against UKIP in the run up to the recent European and local elections (held last Thursday). UKIP were apparently ahead in most polls with the Tories trailing in third place partly because they have campaigned against 'open door immigration' which a nation is obliged to accept under EU freedom of movement rules and which it is said has resulted in net migration to the UK of around 500,000 per year from the rest of Europe. This effectively drives down wages in the UK and forces property prices and rents up and puts strain on infrastructure such as schooling and hospitals it is perhaps correctly argued; I haven't researched the figures myself. Farage (the UKIP leader) argues for an Australian style work permit system for migrant workers but says this is impossible to implement while remaining within the EU. Thus we have seen coloured UKIP candidates branded as 'recists'.

36924

Any slightly odd comment by a UKIP candidate such as questioning same sex marriage etc has made headlines while comments and illegal actions by candidates of the three 'mainstream' parties have received no publicity... In one council election the head of the governing Liberal Democrat Party was in prison, other candidates standing for the 'mainstream' parties are said to have been former members of the overtly racist British National Party (BNP), while former BNP members are barred from UKIP membership. In short it is alleged that the media has run an overt anti UKIP campaign with headlines such as "Farages car crash interview" etc etc... All this follows David Cameron's now memorable remark that UKIP was a Party full of "fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists"; a nice insult to many former Conservative Party members. We do not have the results of the European Parliamentary elections yet but in the local elections held on the same day UKIP gained 161 councillors apparently including some in traditional Labour areas of northern England. The media 'spin' has now resorted to calling this a 'protest vote' while admitting it is an 'earthquake' in British politics. Maybe it is a protest vote but my sister tells me that she voted UKIP precisely because she was sick of the anti UKIP media campaign; the protest was against the media bias too.

Farage says;


"Over the last few weeks I been incensed by the relentless media attacks on UKIP. Endless stories of minor misdemeanours by UKIP supporters have been frenziedly reported and ‘opinion’ pieces (particularly in the Daily Telegraph) have plumbed new depths.

Under a masquerade of ‘scrutiny’, the media has been complicit with the Tory Party in running a smear campaign against us. This has been admitted by David Davis, The Commentator has seenactual documents from CCHQ (Conservative Campaign HQ) and even the Guardian is reported to have been secretly taking smear stories from CCHQ in order to demonise us.

The cornerstone of a democracy is a free press. The Tory party has used a willing media to conduct a covert smear campaign against us and in doing so have been willing to subvert the democratic process for party purposes. This behaviour is worthy of the lowest banana republic, not Great Britain."

The Commentator article is here; EXCLUSIVE: Leaked documents reveal Tory spinners in intensive anti-UKIP media briefings - The Commentator (http://www.thecommentator.com/article/3371/exclusive_leaked_documents_reveal_tory_spinners_in _intensive_anti_ukip_media_briefings)

Frankly I do not think this a 'British phenomenon' alone. In the internet age where information and opinion output is no longer confined to respected establishment papers people are sick of being told what to think and the mainstream media is increasingly seen as hypocritical. We don't want politicians making our decisions for us - about Europe in the UK, about Europe or Russia in Ukraine, or about wars and surveillance anywhere, neither do we want a compliant mainstream media establishment trying to dictate to us how we should react and regard the decisions of our increasingly out of touch leaders. I think this is something that should be welcomed; it marks a rebirth of real political awareness within the everyday population outside cosmopolitan 'elite' of what in the UK they call the "chattering classes". "We don't believe you lot in your ivory towers anymore!" is the start of a new questioning and demand for accountability that to my mind is long overdue. I hope this is just the start.

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 11:35
Pari, why you insist that the spouse/wife


Doktor, learn to read and stop wasting my fucking time with asinine straw men.


She is married to an American. She has been married to that American since 2011. She is so devout in her Christianity that she refuses to renounce it even under threat of execution. So she must be a slut and lying about the parentage of THE TWO YEAR OLD SON AND UNBORN CHILD!
GG will of course espouse no end of reasons (including that she may have slept around) why those two children aren't American and you'll lap it up and repeat it, but answer me this. If these two children aren't American, having an American father, then why the fuck should you have Australian citizenship, why the fuck should I have New Zealand citizenship, and if he has any, why the fuck should GG's children have American citizenship. After all, his missus isn't American?


and the born and unborn child are US citizens?Show me where they're not? Because GG says they might not be? Are they Sudanese? Why? Because their mother is Sudanese? What if they'd been born in Japan? Are they not allowed to claim Sudanese or American citizenship? Why not?

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 12:00
From what I read a similar 'establishment' media campaign has been waged against UKIP in the run up to the recent European and local elections (held last Thursday).

I saw the BEEB just had their arse handed to them on a plate for reporting immigration was down specifically to contradict Nigel, then having it reported it was in fact well up.

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 12:01
So anyway, back to the OP:
Pew: Public opinion of media never worse - Tim Mak - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/64261.html)
I guess PEW is a conservative bullshit organisation and just hates Liberals.

Officer of Engineers
25 May 14,, 14:11
Show me where they're not? Because GG says they might not be? Are they Sudanese? Why? Because their mother is Sudanese? What if they'd been born in Japan? Are they not allowed to claim Sudanese or American citizenship? Why not?Iain, I don't understand your position. America's house. America's rules. Koreans borned in Japan for generations are not allowed Japanese citizenship, even by rape of Japanese father. A lot of countries in Europe do not allow citizenship just because you're born there. Children of servicemen out of wedlock are not guarranteed their father's citizenship for the world over. It has been that way for generations.

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 15:13
Iain, I don't understand your position. America's house. America's rules. Koreans borned in Japan for generations are not allowed Japanese citizenship, even by rape of Japanese father. A lot of countries in Europe do not allow citizenship just because you're born there. Children of servicemen out of wedlock are not guarranteed their father's citizenship for the world over. It has been that way for generations.

My position? No one has told me that the boy isn't an American citizen. No one has told me that the unborn child isn't an American citizen. GG has offered his opinion that they might or might not be, but while sounding both incredibly knowledgable and condescending he actually has no idea because the administration hasn't proffered an opinion one way or another, despite the American father asking them to, repeatedly, and providing both birth certificate and wedding certificate to demonstrate that she is his wife and that the children are his.
Why do we not know? Well apart from what little 'right wing' press remains, no one has asked.
BF has provided a list of page 43 reprints of the original news whilst ignoring the Christian and 'right wing' sites that have actually asked. He knows they exist because whilst searching for his list of reprints he saw them but nothing to see, moveon.
Isn't it a question worth asking? Shouldn't the administration be asked? Where's the US MSM interviews with the immigration department? With the White House?
Could it be anything to do with not wanting to upset the Sudanese when so many CIA agents are running round the country shooting up hairdressers? Isn't that a question worth asking?
Instead, all that we read from the US MSM is what a bunch of nutters the republicans/conservatives/Christians/gun totin/tea bagging opposition are.
'Dude, Benghazi was like two years ago' 'nothin to see, move on' 'oh look, there's the First Lady doin a tweet, awesome, we care, moveon'
Did you know the most read paper in the US is an English one?
Did you read the PEW survey I posted about democratic bias in the major news providers within the US? Or the media faculty survey from Indiana U? DOR didn't, he can't see them. GG didn't, he can't see them either, nor BF. Nothing to see, moveon. Personally, I see not much difference between the US MSM and the Russian MSM. 'They're all fascists/clinging to god and guns, moveon.'

A while ago Astralis was outraged when I said Obama's reelection was good reason for NZ to move more neutral in our foreign affairs. The reason I said this was because there are no longer any checks and balances against the executive, as Obama has amply demonstrated time and again since then. The democrats do what they like, the US MSM shouts hooray and everyone is expected to just moveon.
Meriam Ibrahim and her children are a small, insignificant example of this, but their insignificance is good because it shines a clear light in a way where some big issue could be more muddied. Simple and direct. The kids are US citizens or not. She deserves protection as the spouse of a US citizen, or not. But those questions are not being asked, and by simple bureaucratic delay, will never be answered. Nothing to see, moveon.

Officer of Engineers
25 May 14,, 15:22
Meriam Ibrahim and her children are a small, insignificant example of this, but their insignificance is good because it shines a clear light in a way where some big issue could be more muddied. Simple and direct. The kids are US citizens or not. She deserves protection as the spouse of a US citizen, or not. But those questions are not being asked, and by simple bureaucratic delay, will never be answered. Nothing to see, moveon.Ok, now I understand your position but isn't the answer clear? The US already gave her answer. The wife and mother and kids are getting nothing. The bureaucratic mumbo jumbo and the lack of media attention are both good as a no.

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 15:26
Ok, now I understand your position but isn't the answer clear? The US already gave her answer. The wife and mother and kids are getting nothing. The bureaucratic mumbo jumbo and the lack of media attention are both good as a no.

Indeed they are sir, indeed they are. I guess I simply believe the purpose of free press was to ask awkward questions, not just take your copy from the ruling party.

snapper
25 May 14,, 16:44
Cultural marxism.

Doktor
25 May 14,, 17:05
Indeed they are sir, indeed they are. I guess I simply believe the purpose of free press was to ask awkward questions, not just take your copy from the ruling party.

You think some of the more extreme right-wing senators wouldn't make a lot of noise if one of them was a US citizen?

Otherwise, spot on notion.

Gun Grape
25 May 14,, 17:45
GG will of course espouse no end of reasons (including that she may have slept around) why those two children aren't American and you'll lap it up and repeat it, but answer me this. If these two children aren't American, having an American father, then why the fuck should you have Australian citizenship, why the fuck should I have New Zealand citizenship, and if he has any, why the fuck should GG's children have American citizenship. After all, his missus isn't American?

Would you like to show me where I implied or said that she was may have slept around? Don't ever attribute things to me that i didn't friggin say.



So, all we've got is ad hominems, straw men and frankly blatant racism from two of you about those Sudanese slut and fake American trying to pull a swifty on poor old American democrats. And you reckon I'm sad.

Because you don't know what you are talking about you want to start accusing us of declaring her a slut and being racist? Mod or Not FUCK YOU!!!!

Why should my children have American citizenship? because I followed the law and did things proper. Thats why.

And just as important, mine were born on US soil

Albany Rifles
25 May 14,, 21:25
Folks...coming to this late....But Everyone Calm Down!

Really, our most experienced members are going to drop trousers and act in such a juvenile manner?!?!?!? WTF, OVER!?!?!

You ALL know the rules...set the example and follow them.

You are better than this!!!!

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 21:53
Would you like to show me where I implied or said that she was may have slept around? Don't ever attribute things to me that i didn't friggin say.


Sure


If it was "Marry an American citizen and you automatically become one yourself, as do any children" my, foreign national wife of 23 years would have become a US citizen 23 years ago.

You'd already had hours to bone up on the story, using your 'superior google skills' yet you assume the kids claim is based on her marrying him to get them citizenship.


Because you don't know what you are talking about you want to start accusing us of declaring her a slut and being racist? Mod or Not FUCK YOU!!!!

Whatever

I followed the law and did things properWell, so did they ;)

Gun Grape
25 May 14,, 22:20
Sure


You'd already had hours to bone up on the story, using your 'superior google skills' yet you assume the kids claim is based on her marrying him to get them citizenship.

Where do you get that? If you read the rest of my post, it had nothing to do with the wife. the kids claim to citizenship has to do with the Naturalized citizenship father and the amount of time he had spent in the US verses Sudan to give any children in that marriage US citizenship.

Guess you decided to ignore that since it didn't fit idea of how things are.



Well, so did they ;)

They never filed at the Embassy. And the wife was in prison because it is against the law for her to marry a christian. It doesn't look like they followed the law at all. Once again, you may notice that the members of congress that are wanting the US to do something are NOT calling the wife and child US Citizens. but instead asking the administration to grant them Political Asylum. You don't grant citizens of your own country asylum.

Bigfella
25 May 14,, 22:41
Not even going to bother, you want to piss on the trees to deny the forest, knock yourself out.

And here we go. Despite me posting it multiple times, and all those links you and GG have supposedly read and all the other pure bullshit both him and now you have posted, I still have to point out the FUCKING OBVIOUS.

She is married to an American. She has been married to that American since 2011. She is so devout in her Christianity that she refuses to renounce it even under threat of execution. So she must be a slut and lying about the parentage of THE TWO YEAR OLD SON AND UNBORN CHILD!
GG will of course espouse no end of reasons (including that she may have slept around) why those two children aren't American and you'll lap it up and repeat it, but answer me this. If these two children aren't American, having an American father, then why the fuck should you have Australian citizenship, why the fuck should I have New Zealand citizenship, and if he has any, why the fuck should GG's children have American citizenship. After all, his missus isn't American?



So, all we've got is ad hominems, straw men and frankly blatant racism from two of you about those Sudanese slut and fake American trying to pull a swifty on poor old American democrats. And you reckon I'm sad.

OK Pari. Clearly you just want to hurl abuse at anyone who dares to point out that you have no argument, or accuse them of precisely the same thing you have been doing for several pages now (ad homs, strawmen or outright falsehoods is about all you've had from the start). You can't back up your claims so you just accuse me of things I most definitely haven't said. I really thought you were up to more than that.

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 23:16
OK Pari. Clearly you just want to hurl abuse at anyone who dares to point out that you have no argument, or accuse them of precisely the same thing you have been doing for several pages now (ad homs, strawmen or outright falsehoods is about all you've had from the start). You can't back up your claims so you just accuse me of things I most definitely haven't said. I really thought you were up to more than that.
Oh look, it's tweedle dumb


I'm sure she will be even more pleased to die knowing that some guy on the internet used her impending death to make some bullshit allegations of media bias vin the US based soley on his inability to use google.


Feel free to admit you were wrong any time Pari.


This has already received more coverage in high profile media than the deaths of thousands of 'witches' in Africa (mostly old women & children) over the past decade. Guess that doesn't fit anybody's narrative.

Getting snarky every time someone picks apart one of your arguments simply highlights how poorly based they have been. I'm also over doing your research for you.


Once again, you are the one who was playing the 'date game' and it blew up in your face.


Literally every line you post your arguments get worse.


Yet another deflection. You can't back up your claims so you are resorting to name calling. Just admit you got it wrong Pari.
Standard BF BS. Attack the person, ignore the message, pose strawmen, rinse and repeat, long before I went anywhere near ad hominems.

Hypocritical much?

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 23:25
She isn't an citizen of one of those nations and it IS all over the news. Wrong again.

Now, as I point out yet again


If these two children aren't American, having an American father, then why the fuck should you have Australian citizenship, why the fuck should I have New Zealand citizenship, and if he has any, why the fuck should GG's children have American citizenship. After all, his missus isn't American?
Care to address the issue of Meriam Ibrahim's children? After all, you're so knowledgeable about the case, and I'm just
some guy on the internet used her impending death to make some bullshit allegations of media bias vin the US based soley on his inability to use google

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 23:30
Where do you get that? Here
If it was "Marry an American citizen and you automatically become one yourself, as do any children"
If you'd actually read about the case, you'd know that was irrelevant but you just bring it up anyway.

The children don't get to claim via their mother marrying an American, they get to claim via an American being their father. Unless of course they aren't his.

Doktor
25 May 14,, 23:35
What's the fuss about the citizenship?

She didn't finish the procedure and apparently neither did her kid if anyone of those two ever started it. I have yet to see a country that grants citizenship to unborns (sp).

GG, you have to be married for your recognized kids to obtain citizenship?

However, the media not asking this administration tough questions was the topic, right?

Parihaka
25 May 14,, 23:46
However, the media not asking this administration tough questions was the topic, right?

Well yes, I rather thought it was but me being an evil-computer illiterate-dumbfuck-arsehole seems to be vastly preferred. Happy to oblige. :)

Doktor
25 May 14,, 23:53
Well yes, I rather thought it was but me being an evil-computer illiterate-dumbfuck-arsehole seems to be vastly preferred. Happy to oblige. :)

Well, as stubborn as you are, this US Administration is happy you are not an editor of a global MSM :whome:

Gun Grape
26 May 14,, 01:37
What's the fuss about the citizenship? It comes down to the reason the media isn't asking "The tough questions"

SO far what we have is a Sudanese woman that has been sentenced to death. She is married to an American but has not applied for citizenship.

The United States doesn't have a dog in this hunt.

What tough questions should the media be asking the US Government in this case?



GG, you have to be married for your recognized kids to obtain citizenship?

If the kid was born in the US, they get automatic citizenship. If born overseas it depends on if the US citizen is the mother or father. How long the citizen mother had lived in the US prior to the birth. For the citizen father there is a whole list of things that must be done before the child can get citizenship:

N-600, Application for Certificate of Citizenship Frequently Asked Questions | USCIS (http://www.uscis.gov/forms/n-600-application-certificate-citizenship-frequently-asked-questions)

That your father was physically present in the United States for 5 years, at least 2 of which were after 14 years of age;

A blood relationship with your father by clear and convincing evidence;

That your father was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth;

That your father (unless deceased) has agreed in writing to provide financial support for you until you reach 18 years of age;
and
While you are under 18 years of age

You are legitimated under the law of your residence or domicile;

Your father acknowledges paternity of you in writing under oath; or
Your paternity is established by a court.

Doktor
26 May 14,, 01:50
It comes down to the reason the media isn't asking "The tough questions"
They could have asked them, get the answers and carry on. IMV, there is no case in this particular situation, but maybe it should have been made clear from the start, if not for anything else for clarity alone and to shut conspirators.


SO far what we have is a Sudanese woman that has been sentenced to death. She is married to an American but has not applied for citizenship.

The United States doesn't have a dog in this hunt.

What tough questions should the media be asking the US Government in this case?
What about elementary human rights? Or this case will be good for justifying leaving Sudan in the bottom tier in the next report?
Something changed or the US is still the world advocate of human rights? At least on paper. (before someone jumps on me on Gitmo, water boarding, CIA prisons...)


If the kid was born in the US, they get automatic citizenship. If born overseas it depends on if the US citizen is the mother or father. How long the citizen mother had lived in the US prior to the birth. For the citizen father there is a whole list of things that must be done before the child can get citizenship:

N-600, Application for Certificate of Citizenship Frequently Asked Questions | USCIS (http://www.uscis.gov/forms/n-600-application-certificate-citizenship-frequently-asked-questions)

That your father was physically present in the United States for 5 years, at least 2 of which were after 14 years of age;

A blood relationship with your father by clear and convincing evidence;

That your father was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth;

That your father (unless deceased) has agreed in writing to provide financial support for you until you reach 18 years of age;
and
While you are under 18 years of age

You are legitimated under the law of your residence or domicile;

Your father acknowledges paternity of you in writing under oath; or
Your paternity is established by a court.
I knew it's hard to understand ;)

tbm3fan
26 May 14,, 06:51
Boy oh boy all this when the info is at the finger tips.

Continuous Residence and Physical Presence Requirements for Naturalization | USCIS (http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-naturalization/continuous-residence-and-physical-presence-requirements-naturalization)

Citizenship Through Parents | USCIS (http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/citizenship-through-parents)

How the Foreign-Born Children of American Citizens Can Prove or Obtain U.S. Nationality | Nolo.com (http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/how-the-foreign-born-children-american-citizens-can-prove-obtain-us-nationality.html)

Citizenship Requirements FAQs :: American Citizens Abroad (ACA) (http://americansabroad.org/issues/citizenship/citizenship-requirements-faqs/)

Birth of U.S. Citizen Abroad | Embassy of the United States Phnom Penh, Cambodia (http://cambodia.usembassy.gov/birth_abroad.html)

I also see the husband says this

“I have tried to apply for papers to travel to the USA with my wife and child, but the American Embassy in Sudan did not help me,” Wani told Morning Star News.

For a spousal visa, they are married, this form needs to be filled out and mailed. This is not applying for papers. Petition for Alien Relative | USCIS (http://www.uscis.gov/i-130) Since he was in the U.S. why didn't he do that while here. It is at least a 9 month process when done locally. That was my fiance visa and some say a spousal visa takes longer. He could hand the form in at the embassy but it then must go to the U.S. to be processed and then back to the embassy when approved. Once approved she then needs to have her physical exam and the results brought to the embassy at which time the visa is issued. My process took me 9 months for the approval to be sent to Manila. At that point my wife then had to deal with all the requirements for the physical, and those imposed by the Philippines, before she got her visa. It is not a quick process by any means and especially after 9/11.

Back in 2008 someone I knew in Manila came back to the US with his two children. Ex-Navy who resided in the Philippines on a continuous basis since 1988. Had a large business in Manila and later north of Manila. His children were already approaching high school age when he then sold his business and got his kids here before they were 18 so as to have full rights. I am not familiar with what that meant but he is a by the book guy and knows those laws inside and out.

Doktor
26 May 14,, 09:46
Weird, a friend just sent me this one...

36936

Hope they are not stalking me here :biggrin:

Gun Grape
01 Jun 14,, 22:28
I see, Just like everyone else that has been sentenced to death for Apostasy in Sudan, they are setting her Free.

Meriam Ibrahim: Sudanese woman sentenced to hang will be freed (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/meriam-ibrahim-sudanese-woman-sentenced-to-hang-will-be-freed-in-a-few-days-9466994.html)

DOR
02 Jun 14,, 04:01
I see, Just like everyone else that has been sentenced to death for Apostasy in Sudan, they are setting her Free.

Meriam Ibrahim: Sudanese woman sentenced to hang will be freed (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/meriam-ibrahim-sudanese-woman-sentenced-to-hang-will-be-freed-in-a-few-days-9466994.html)

Not yet.
The story appears to be mis-stating the comments, which seems to have been "there is a chance for an appeal."

Mihais
02 Jun 14,, 07:27
Well, as stubborn as you are, this US Administration is happy you are not an editor of a global MSM :whome:


Bro,don't delude yourself.If he were and stepped outside the party line, some pretext could be found to remove him in no time.
Thinking for a half second,he's being rude and insensitive.And no doubt,he must motivated by racism.It's that simple.

Doktor
02 Jun 14,, 07:59
He can always say that they do it to him because he is a minority and gay. :whome:

Disclaimer: I guess he is as gay as he is racist.

Bigfella
02 Jun 14,, 09:59
Gents,

After the way this thread went before I opened up a new thread on this yesterday. Feel free to move the discussion there & let this thread either die or return to something closer to the original topic.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/sub-saharan-africa/65354-sudanese-woman-freed.html#post964973

tbm3fan
02 Jun 14,, 22:05
Bro,don't delude yourself.If he were and stepped outside the party line, some pretext could be found to remove him in no time.
Thinking for a half second,he's being rude and insensitive.And no doubt,he must motivated by racism.It's that simple.


He can always say that they do it to him because he is a minority and gay.

Disclaimer: I guess he is as gay as he is racist.

I'll say that lost me for a moment till Bigfella cleared it up