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Mithridates
18 May 14,, 05:16
in addition to turning its dead characters into zombies. What are the elementary mistakes made by the Walking Dead community that even its Stone Age counterpart would have avoided? I'll start this off with the following items:


They use valuable (and irreplaceable) gasoline/diesel to burn staked zombies instead of firewood.
They rely on existing wire fences to keep out the zombies, instead of constructing palisades.
They don't build watch towers so they can see zombies or hostile humans coming from far away.
They don't clear the foliage for at least a few hundred yards around the settlement so they can have greater visibility around the compound.
They don't dig pits around the fences so as to make it more difficult for zombies to either topple or climb the fences.
They don't sweep around the settlement in increasingly large circles in order to enlarge the zone of safety around the settlement.

Officer of Engineers
18 May 14,, 06:57
in addition to turning its dead characters into zombies. What are the elementary mistakes made by the Walking Dead community that even its Stone Age counterpart would have avoided? I'll start this off with the following items:


They use valuable (and irreplaceable) gasoline/diesel to burn staked zombies instead of firewood.
They rely on existing wire fences to keep out the zombies, instead of constructing palisades.
They don't build watch towers so they can see zombies or hostile humans coming from far away.
They don't clear the foliage for at least a few hundred yards around the settlement so they can have greater visibility around the compound.
They don't dig pits around the fences so as to make it more difficult for zombies to either topple or climb the fences.
They don't sweep around the settlement in increasingly large circles in order to enlarge the zone of safety around the settlement.


7 - That no one got the brains to ask the Klingons for help.

Monash
20 May 14,, 04:05
So in the first few days after the 'pandemic' started US authorities didn't have the manpower and resources to secure at least a few islands, peninsulas, mountain tops etc as refuges? What happened to all that Nuclear conflict planning? No secure facilities for government, no secure communications no ships to take off refugees? :confused:

Mithridates
20 May 14,, 06:11
So in the first few days after the 'pandemic' started US authorities didn't have the manpower and resources to secure at least a few islands, peninsulas, mountain tops etc as refuges? What happened to all that Nuclear conflict planning? No secure facilities for government, no secure communications no ships to take off refugees? :confused:I think the show's assumption is that they were overwhelmed before they figured out the nature of the zombies. Obviously it concerns itself with the day-to-day lives of people who are cut off from any semblance of civilization (i.e. large scale human settlements of at least thousands). Even if we accept the basic premise of the show, that central authority is history, for the moment, the behavior of the protagonists is so dumb, if we substituted a wolf for every zombie in the show, the protagonists would all be dead.

Monash
20 May 14,, 07:24
Even if we accept the basic premise of the show, that central authority is history, for the moment, the behavior of the protagonists is so dumb, if we substituted a wolf for every zombie in the show, the protagonists would all be dead.

My point still stands though, wholesale nuclear strikes don't exactly proceed at zombie like speed. They should have been able to initiate some kind of limited response. My faith in the American Government and the efficiency of its bureaucracy is shattered I tell you, shattered! :whome:

bigross86
20 May 14,, 09:20
Just saying.....

Here’s Why “The Walking Dead” Doesn’t Make Any Damn Sense (http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/heres-why-the-walking-dead-doesnt-make-any-damn-sense)

gunnut
21 May 14,, 01:36
Just saying.....

Here’s Why “The Walking Dead” Doesn’t Make Any Damn Sense (http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/heres-why-the-walking-dead-doesnt-make-any-damn-sense)

It's Hollywood. What do you expect?

My friend and I watched the remake of Dawn of the Dead in the theater. Remember that scene where the gun store owner set up on the roof of his store and picked off zombies for fun? My friend asked me how much ammo does an average gun store like that have? My answer was "enough to clear a small city of zombies."

If zombies were the "Walking Dead" type walkers rather than the super fast tidal wave zombies like "World War Z" or "Dawn of the Dead," then an average gun owner like me could clear a few thousands without breaking a sweat.

Gun Grape
21 May 14,, 04:23
Just saying.....

Here’s Why “The Walking Dead” Doesn’t Make Any Damn Sense (http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/heres-why-the-walking-dead-doesnt-make-any-damn-sense)

There are a lot of things the author gets wrong. And most of them are spelled out in the comments section so I won't repeat them here.

Gun Grape
21 May 14,, 04:46
My point still stands though, wholesale nuclear strikes don't exactly proceed at zombie like speed. They should have been able to initiate some kind of limited response. My faith in the American Government and the efficiency of its bureaucracy is shattered I tell you, shattered! :whome:

If you watch the first season, it does show the military bombing a city. There is also a tank shown at an intersection when Rick goes into Atlanta and the CDC is surrounded with built up fighting positions that were overrun.

I've never read the comic books but am a fan of the TV series.

I don't know the percentage of people that were infected in the first wave, Ben's link uses 99%. But lets say that it was somewhere around 20%. This affects the military also.

Soldiers don't walk around with a combat load of ammo all the time. Units normally only have ammo on hand for the OOD and SOG (60rds 9mm) and a few mags each for the Armory guard/react force. Lets say 10 individuals x 30 rds for 300 rds of 5.56. During the day that ammo is kept locked up normally at the armory. Same place the weapons are held. The airfields don't keep fueled and loaded planes on deck (unless they are on alert or conducting training). And the bases have a limited amount of fuel stored on base. Same with ammo in the ammo dump. 2d MarDiv is not stepping off base with enough Beans , Bullets and bandages to conduct to sustained operations. Neither is 2d MAW going to have pilots, mechs, fuel and ammo to conduct a minor campaign. Don't forget that everyone bit/killed turns into a zombie.

How many armorers turned? How many people at the ammo dump? How many people in the chain turned? Did the guy that carries the nuclear football turn? How many people in the silos turned? How many that didn't turn would refuse to nuke American soil?

How many people, in the first days, wouldn't shoot because they didn't understand the threat? Or because they zombies were their family, friends, neighbors, co-workers?

Triple C
21 May 14,, 05:11
So in the first few days after the 'pandemic' started US authorities didn't have the manpower and resources to secure at least a few islands, peninsulas, mountain tops etc as refuges? What happened to all that Nuclear conflict planning? No secure facilities for government, no secure communications no ships to take off refugees? :confused:

Exactly what happened in World War Z the novel. The world governments survived by building fire bases to defend vital industries and air-supplied survivor pockets. Then when they had enough ammo and manpower, they pushed out in a ten year long offensive that wiped out the zombies.

Gun Grape
24 May 14,, 19:16
Exactly what happened in World War Z the novel. The world governments survived by building fire bases to defend vital industries and air-supplied survivor pockets. Then when they had enough ammo and manpower, they pushed out in a ten year long offensive that wiped out the zombies.

But this is a different type of Zombie and from the looks of it the infection happened quickly.

Gun Grape
24 May 14,, 19:36
in addition to turning its dead characters into zombies. What are the elementary mistakes made by the Walking Dead community that even its Stone Age counterpart would have avoided? I'll start this off with the following items:


They use valuable (and irreplaceable) gasoline/diesel to burn staked zombies instead of firewood.

Why do you think gas is more valuable than firewood?

Ever tried to cook with a gasoline or diesel fire? or use it to stay warm?
Not a lot of running vehicles or generators to use that fuel in.


They rely on existing wire fences to keep out the zombies, instead of constructing palisades.
They don't build watch towers so they can see zombies or hostile humans coming from far away.
They don't clear the foliage for at least a few hundred yards around the settlement so they can have greater visibility around the compound.
They don't dig pits around the fences so as to make it more difficult for zombies to either topple or climb the fences.
They don't sweep around the settlement in increasingly large circles in order to enlarge the zone of safety around the settlement.


They are , for the most part, civilian types and not schooled in military history. Nor are most skilled in the use of tools, or growing food.

They wouldn't know about clearing "fields of fire" or creating "Zones of Safety". There have been a few exceptions spread out among the various groups.

Another thing is that all these things are labor intensive. Doesn't seem to be many backhoes/buldozers, or the skilled operators hanging around. And the noise would bring lots of walkers.

Or other survivors that may not be so nice. Notice how the Gov and his last group decided they wanted the prison. And sharing with the people there wasn't an option to them. Een though they were offered the chance to come in and join the community. Not everyone wants to play nice. And when there is no law, some do not have the moral compass to do the right thing.

Except for Woodbury, the groups have not been large enough to do those things.
How many of the people in Ricks group have the skills to build walls or guard towers? Where do the tools and materials come from?

While building the palisades, digging the pits, what is the ratio of workers to security?

Why would you not use the fence and guard towers already in place?

The last issue is diet. Its early in the infection and most survivors are subsisting by scavenging. The things you want then to do require energy. The people on the WD are, for the most part living on a sustainment diet at best. You are wanting them to burn calories they don't have.

Kirkman doesn't get everything right. but he isn't doing a horrible job.

Triple C
25 May 14,, 08:23
Not sure about the zombies being different. It's been awhile but in so far as I recall, World War Z is also classic Romero zombie, with the exception that it's strongly implied to be caused by a weaponized virus.

Gun Grape
25 May 14,, 19:59
Not sure about the zombies being different. It's been awhile but in so far as I recall, World War Z is also classic Romero zombie, with the exception that it's strongly implied to be caused by a weaponized virus.

By different, I mean that the zombies on Walking Dead are a fast happening event. Like the Romero zombies in Night of the Living Dead. One day the dead just rise up.

In WWZ, it started as an isolated incident in Russia. Countries had time to take actions before the virus spread worldwide. WWZ zombies are also fast runners not the classic slow walking Romero one

Monash
11 Jun 14,, 10:34
By different, I mean that the zombies on Walking Dead are a fast happening event. Like the Romero zombies in Night of the Living Dead. One day the dead just rise up.

Wow there a second. They cant be that fast happening. I mean the dead can't just 'rise up' and take over like that. On any one day the % of dead bodies in the average community is surprisingly small. Sure the ones at the local undertaker or the hospital morgue can 'rise up' but the ones at the cemetery or crematorium aren't going anywhere. (You try digging yourself out from under and 6ft of compressed earth, coffin or no coffin. So that means the infection (in Walking dead I believe it was a virus) has to be spread. You either get bit which if I remember correctly takes a couple of days to kill you or you die from some other means and then rise up.

Which brings me to another of my personal bones of contention with The Walking Dead. If as the survivors later discover everyone is infected due to the (apparently) airborne spread of the disease why does being being bitten kill you but not any other wound, cut or incision? How many times have members of the cast been shot, stabbed, given birth or otherwise been left bleeding out copious amounts of blood with no apparent 'zombie like' effects yet all it takes is one little hickey from a Walker and your toast?

Stitch
11 Jun 14,, 19:16
I always thought a Costco Wholesale warehouse would be a good place to hole-up when the zombie apocalypse comes; they have pretty much everything you need to stay alive for a few months (except weapons). Generators for power, food up the wazoo, LOTS of beer and liquor, and entertainment systems and video games to keep you entertained during those long days hunkered down in the warehouse.

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Plus, it's a fairly secure facility; 8-inch concrete walls and steel security doors to keep the zombies out, a high roof so you can see 'em coming from a long ways away and pick 'em off, and an alarm system so you know when one of them actually breaks into the warehouse (though that begs the question of where you're going to get the power from; the generators? Put a 6K on the roof and run the alarm system from there?). Hopefully, you'll find a warehouse that has a gas station so you can fill the generators up during the day when the zombies are sleepy.

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ace16807
11 Jun 14,, 19:27
Except that hostile humans are probably just as much if not a greater threat in such a scenario. A Costco/any large retailer of crucial goods would likely be a high-priority target for non-friendlies.

Stitch
11 Jun 14,, 20:38
Except that hostile humans are probably just as much if not a greater threat in such a scenario. A Costco/any large retailer of crucial goods would likely be a high-priority target for non-friendlies.

Dat true; that's why you'd have to get their FIRST, and let all of your family/friends in there to help you protect the place!

Gun Grape
12 Jun 14,, 01:08
Wow there a second. They cant be that fast happening. I mean the dead can't just 'rise up' and take over like that. On any one day the % of dead bodies in the average community is surprisingly small. Sure the ones at the local undertaker or the hospital morgue can 'rise up' but the ones at the cemetery or crematorium aren't going anywhere. (You try digging yourself out from under and 6ft of compressed earth, coffin or no coffin. So that means the infection (in Walking dead I believe it was a virus) has to be spread. You either get bit which if I remember correctly takes a couple of days to kill you or you die from some other means and then rise up.

Not a zombie expert but let me try to explain. First, I used the Romero byline of the dead rising up.

Zombies are not dead people. They are alive but with no higher functions. They are the carrying/spreading vessel for the virus.



Which brings me to another of my personal bones of contention with The Walking Dead. If as the survivors later discover everyone is infected due to the (apparently) airborne spread of the disease why does being being bitten kill you but not any other wound, cut or incision? How many times have members of the cast been shot, stabbed, given birth or otherwise been left bleeding out copious amounts of blood with no apparent 'zombie like' effects yet all it takes is one little hickey from a Walker and your toast?


The virus is a airborne disease. Don't know where it came from. Rick was in the hospital , in a coma,when the epidemic hit. From conversations between Shane and Laurie, Shane went to the hospital when it got bad enough that people were told to evacuate. So lets give the disease a few weeks to spread while the hospital is functioning. There was time enough for the military to set up some type of CP in the hospital parking lot. A few weeks to a month for the zombie virus to get out of control.

My thoughts on how people turned. Everyone has the virus. All people have various wicked germs going through their bodies at any time yet not everyone gets sick.

People with strong immune systems and overall good general health are not affected. Like 100 people eating the bad egg salad on a buffet but only 10% developing full blown food poisoning.

The first to go are people in hospitals, nursing homes, druggies, ect. And they bite the first responders, nurses, police and it expands from there.

Why do bites turn you but other injuries don't? My guess is that people that didn't turn bodies have struck a equilibrium. There are enough antibodies in the system to keep the virus in check But with the introduction of more of the virus, from the saliva of the biter (and they have the virus running rapid through their system) overwhelms the immune system of the bitten. Then the change begins.

Normal cuts, scratches, gunshot wounds do not introduce a large influx of the virus cells.

Hows that for an answer?

Maybe if someone on the WAD reads the comic books they have better answers.

I cannot be the WABs only Zombie fan

Monash
12 Jun 14,, 12:31
Possibly but there was an episode in season one where Rick and the gang had just met up and they were trapped in a department store in Houston is it? surrounded by Walkers. Anyway to get out a couple of them literally painted themselves in zombie guts from head to toe to disguise their 'scent' before heading out through the horde to get some vehicles and .... nothing. As I said one little bite breaking the skin and dead town here you come, yet you can virtually fill a swimming pool with zombie guts and go for a dip with no ill effects? If the zombies mouths are packed with mega doses of the virus it stands to reason the rest of them is as well, what so special about teeth? Whats more things that impact on your immune system like say prolonged hunger or malnutrition, exposure, lack of sleep or continued long term stress (anyone we know?) should also render you vulnerable to the disease after a few months. That's what normally happens when you become run down and exhausted, you become vulnerable to many diseases you'd normally shrug off. Most of the group should have come down with virus over time as they got worn out but again... nothing. Nitpicking I know but I've seen a couple of 'plague' horror films where the diseases are more realistic.

And as you pointed out there were at least some weeks or even months in the beginning where the authorities were able to maintain some degree of order so that implies there was enough time for safe zones to be set up for your most valuable US citizens - all those Congressmen/women,Senators and lobbyists etc so you have the foundations of a whole brave new society right there. Not one I would necessarily want to live in mind you but then 'Walking Dead' is set in the US no Aus. For all I know everyone in Australia are still having barbecues, going to the beach and wondering what the hell happened to all their favorite TV programs. :)

Gun Grape
13 Jun 14,, 06:38
Possibly but there was an episode in season one where Rick and the gang had just met up and they were trapped in a department store in Houston is it? surrounded by Walkers. Anyway to get out a couple of them literally painted themselves in zombie guts from head to toe to disguise their 'scent' before heading out through the horde to get some vehicles and .... nothing. As I said one little bite breaking the skin and dead town here you come, yet you can virtually fill a swimming pool with zombie guts and go for a dip with no ill effects? If the zombies mouths are packed with mega doses of the virus it stands to reason the rest of them is as well, what so special about teeth?

If you remember they made sure that they didn't get the guts on them. They wore rain suits and gloves.




Whats more things that impact on your immune system like say prolonged hunger or malnutrition, exposure, lack of sleep or continued long term stress (anyone we know?) should also render you vulnerable to the disease after a few months. That's what normally happens when you become run down and exhausted, you become vulnerable to many diseases you'd normally shrug off. Most of the group should have come down with virus over time as they got worn out but again... nothing. Nitpicking I know but I've seen a couple of 'plague' horror films where the diseases are more realistic.

I guess you missed the big flu outbreak in the prison? They are beginning to break down. Also note that Hershel warned Rick during the outbreak that things would reach a critical stage where the sick people would start to turn.


And as you pointed out there were at least some weeks or even months in the beginning where the authorities were able to maintain some degree of order so that implies there was enough time for safe zones to be set up for your most valuable US citizens - all those Congressmen/women,Senators and lobbyists etc so you have the foundations of a whole brave new society right there. Not one I would necessarily want to live in mind you but then 'Walking Dead' is set in the US no Aus. For all I know everyone in Australia are still having barbecues, going to the beach and wondering what the hell happened to all their favorite TV programs. :)

But the survivors that are being followed would not know about this. The series centers around a group of survivors in rural Georgia. And Kirkman is trying to stay pretty much in line with the comic.

There is suppose to be a spin off that follows another group in a different location. This is to allow Kirkman to "Flesh out" the story.

Finally, when all is said and done, you must remember that this is a TV series about "life after zombies". At some time you just have to decide if you like the show enough to "Suspend reality" on the stuff he gets wrong, or quit watching the program.

Did you noticed that the Kia they drove last season always had a fresh wash and coat of wax?

My wife calls it "the Zombie soap opera" All the womens drama that is found on day time TV, but with zombies so men can justify watching.

Monash
15 Jun 14,, 03:42
Good points, especially about them donning rain gear etc, however I still seem to recall various cast members getting spayed with 'essence of zombie' while in combat that at least one of them should have spontaneously 'turned' by now. FYI I haven't seen the the last series yet. I've heard about the arrival of 'swine' flu' in their little prison community but I haven't watched the episode. When I did hear about it though I though 'gee how contrived is that'. Either the flu virus somehow managed to miraculously find its way across a world where (presumably) 95% plus of the human population have died out from its point of origin to one isolated little community or else it re-evolved spontaneously there within Rick's pigs. Next thing cast members will start dieing off due to random lighting strikes and/or hits by falling satellites.

Native
15 Jun 14,, 04:20
My biggest complaint is they just aren't paranoid enough. They walk into rooms all the time and leave their backs to open doors and hallways. They don't shut doors behind themselves.

jlvfr
15 Jun 14,, 11:15
Where are all the bicycles?!


Seriously, how come, in these movies/series, when gas runs out, everyone either walks or (magically?!) learns to ride horses?!

Monash
16 Jun 14,, 09:49
Finally, when all is said and done, you must remember that this is a TV series about "life after zombies". At some time you just have to decide if you like the show enough to "Suspend reality" on the stuff he gets wrong, or quit watching the program.

Did you noticed that the Kia they drove last season always had a fresh wash and coat of wax?

My wife calls it "the Zombie soap opera" All the womens drama that is found on day time TV, but with zombies so men can justify watching.

My pick was all the neatly mowed lawns about the place even months after the plague, especially while they were all staying at the farm house. It's good to know someone was taking time out from the end of the world for the little 'niceties'. (Of course if the World was ending my wife would still have me out mowing the dam lawn, so maybe it's not to far of the mark after all! :redface:)

Albany Rifles
16 Jun 14,, 17:00
This is all you need.

http://www.ugcsurvival.com/SurvivalManuals%5CFM%20999-3.pdf

gunnut
17 Jun 14,, 20:17
Finally, when all is said and done, you must remember that this is a TV series about "life after zombies". At some time you just have to decide if you like the show enough to "Suspend reality" on the stuff he gets wrong, or quit watching the program.

Did you noticed that the Kia they drove last season always had a fresh wash and coat of wax?

My wife calls it "the Zombie soap opera" All the womens drama that is found on day time TV, but with zombies so men can justify watching.

Pretty much. This is a drama with zombie background. The story is about how people behave and interact during intense stress at a personal and small group level.

The new BSG was a drama with space background. It was also about how people behave and interact to threats from the outside and within the environment.

I was watching The Walking Dead and realized that it really should be called "The Talking Dead." Everyone just talks and talks and talks, shoots zombies, then talks some more.

The difference between BSG, Game of Thrones (another drama but with medieval and fantasy setting), and The Walking Dead is the end goal.

In BSG, there was sort of an end goal, trying to reach the mythical promised land of Earth. Also the writers threw in human-like Cylons not present in the original Battlestar Galactica as a twist.

There is an end goal in Game of Thrones. We want to know who could capture the Iron Throne and rule Westeros.

The Walking Dead is built on a much smaller premise. Survival is enough. There is no end goal. They aren't trying to reach the promised land of Pacific Fun Land, or Boston, or King's Landing, or to find a cure to save humanity. Nope. Just want to make it to the next sun rise. It's much more raw and basic than other dramas.

Tumisu
27 Nov 14,, 21:03
At some point, the brain of a zombie should be too damaged to work... but they are still walking and attacking after years...

MilkToast
30 Jan 15,, 18:13
in addition to turning its dead characters into zombies. What are the elementary mistakes made by the Walking Dead community that even its Stone Age counterpart would have avoided? I'll start this off with the following items:


They use valuable (and irreplaceable) gasoline/diesel to burn staked zombies instead of firewood.
They rely on existing wire fences to keep out the zombies, instead of constructing palisades.
They don't build watch towers so they can see zombies or hostile humans coming from far away.
They don't clear the foliage for at least a few hundred yards around the settlement so they can have greater visibility around the compound.
They don't dig pits around the fences so as to make it more difficult for zombies to either topple or climb the fences.
They don't sweep around the settlement in increasingly large circles in order to enlarge the zone of safety around the settlement.


Gasoline/Diesel has a shelf life. I think in the timeline of the show, the gas they found in tanks would still be good, but they'd start to hit the expiration date before they reached Bingo fuel, I'd bet.

Palisades take time and labor, not to mention trial and error to erect when it's your first time. All of which requires a safe working environment.

Again, construction requires time and safety.

With limited resources, why would clearing the foliage be a priority over farming, immediate defense, and foraging for supplies?

Digging pits again, takes time and manpower. Whats more, the ease of spearing the zombies through the fence to clear them seems to make it an advantage if properly managed.

Its hard to exterminate a 100,000 zombies with just 12 people. Their method of using the chain link to slowly work the walkers down seems more economical and safe.