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sated buddha
10 May 14,, 14:12
Help!

Nokia X - is it better than the Nokia Lumia 520?

Any other phones the tech guys here could suugest that are as good or better?

Yes, trying to keep it within the same price ballpark would be greatly appreciated by the purchasing father (WAB loyalist), not so much by the recipient daughter (non WABber). :whome:

Doktor
10 May 14,, 14:27
If the 5MP camera is not a must, then I'd go for X.

Just hate windows phones.

cataphract
10 May 14,, 15:07
If the 5MP camera is not a must, then I'd go for X.

Just hate windows phones.

Agreed, windows phones are bad news, stick to Android. Btw, you should ideally go for a non-touchscreen, no-frills phone. Teenagers with internet-enabled phones are bad news.

This was my first phone I got when I was 17:
36626

Kids these days...

Doktor
10 May 14,, 15:08
Someone played snake a lot.

Double Edge
10 May 14,, 15:43
Nokia X - is it better than the Nokia Lumia 520?
520 (525 now) >>>>>>>> Nokia X

X is some side project that Nokia had to jettison when they joined MS. Avoid it. it has no purpose in life.

MS mandates that any software that runs on the WP must run on 520, this buttresses the value of the Nokia low end a great deal than android.


Any other phones the tech guys here could suugest that are as good or better?
Moto G!

China -> Flip kart -> You

About Rs.4-5k more. 8GB is Rs.2k less than 16GB. Moto's pricing is extremely competitive.


Yes, trying to keep it within the same price ballpark would be greatly appreciated by the purchasing father (WAB loyalist), not so much by the recipient daughter (non WABber). :whome:
Here is where you need to decide which ecosystem you want to join. Android is a lot further along than WP is. The only WP phones that sell are low end or second hand high end.

I have to say that those under Rs.5k nokia feature phones are also very competitive. But your teen will most likely want whatsapp functionality which isn't available on these.

What does your teen want ?

bigross86
10 May 14,, 16:10
Android. If it's a beginner phone, it doesn't make a difference which one. Go with something like the Galaxy S4 Mini. Good enough to be a great phone, not advanced enough to be incredibly expensive. The advantage is that you can child-proof Android phones up the wazoo, putting on GPS trackers, child-safing the search, only allowing internet at certain times, etc... If you know a little bit about programming, you can do whatever you want to an Android.

cataphract
10 May 14,, 16:11
Someone played snake a lot.

I wish I had done something more useful with those hours of my life.

bolo121
10 May 14,, 16:23
A female teen?
A cheap alternative is the Moto G. Only 12k or so but has more than enough power.
Make sure you install tracker apps to be on the safe side when she goes out.

Edit: I see DE already beat me to it. Great minds think alike :)

Doktor
10 May 14,, 17:41
DE,

From the two options, I'd still go with Android.

SB,
Go to Alibaba and buy whatever phone caches your eye. It wont live more then 12 months with a teen anyway :biggrin:

Metallica
10 May 14,, 17:57
I agree with Bigross86. Get an android phone like galaxy s duos / trend / s4 mini.
But buy a phone with removable battery. Batteries usually degrade after 1.5 - 2 years, depending on usage.

JAD_333
10 May 14,, 18:21
Apple iPhone 5C...this is the plastic case version of the iPhone. Has iOS7, great camera, sweet all around, and Apple iTunes store offers way more and better apps than Google offers for Android. The screen is not as large as some other phones, but plenty big enough for a starter. Good trade in value...

Good luck.

JAD_333
10 May 14,, 18:28
What's with all the Android lovers? There are many versions? Which one? Even Blackberry's new OS is better, and Apple's iOS7 beats Android by a mile.

The Android era: From G1 to KitKat - CNET (http://www.cnet.com/news/history-of-android/)

Doktor
10 May 14,, 18:38
You guys are worse then his teen. He set Rs10k price limit, Ben hit 20k, jad goes 40. With this pace we will have to open donations page;-)

JAD_333
10 May 14,, 18:44
You guys are worse then his teen. He set Rs10k price limit, Ben hit 20k, jad goes 40. With this pace we will have to open donations page;-)

Kick Starter, anyone? :biggrin:

bigross86
10 May 14,, 18:52
I only said Android and threw an example.

As for what makes Android better than iOS? Basically, everything. The fact that it is entirely 100% customizable and you can make your phone pretty much do anything you want, for starters. You can upgrade to a new system whenever you like, and it takes about 10 minutes. The Play Store has just about the same apps the App Store has, the two are comparable.

In a nutshell, iOS (and all Apple products) give you a phone and a system, and tell you to have fun. If you don't like it, then it sucks to be you. Android practically begs you to take the phone and make it fit your needs.

Doktor
10 May 14,, 18:52
What's with all the Android lovers? There are many versions? Which one? Even Blackberry's new OS is better, and Apple's iOS7 beats Android by a mile.

The Android era: From G1 to KitKat - CNET (http://www.cnet.com/news/history-of-android/)
I am not a lover, but works fine for me. Thw price is right, intergrates well with my mails, maps, auto uploads photos to my g+, has the apps that i need... This reminds me to pc vs mac race.

bolo121
10 May 14,, 19:07
Apple iPhone 5C...this is the plastic case version of the iPhone. Has iOS7, great camera, sweet all around, and Apple iTunes store offers way more and better apps than Google offers for Android. The screen is not as large as some other phones, but plenty big enough for a starter. Good trade in value...

Good luck.

Never!
Do not pay the apple tax and then enjoy the iOS jail.

Iphone 5c 40K INR
Apple iPhone 5C Price in India - Buy Apple iPhone 5C Pink 16 GB Online - Apple: Flipkart.com (http://www.flipkart.com/apple-iphone-5c/p/itmdv6f652fenhmq?pid=MOBDPNKCYZRUPMMC&otracker=from-search&srno=t_3&query=iphone+5c&ref=cbd73028-11e9-4986-8dbc-fe37c7a3cbe5)

Moto G 16GB variant 14k INR
Moto G Price in India - Buy Moto G Black 16 GB Online - Motorola: Flipkart.com (http://www.flipkart.com/moto-g/p/itmdsmbxcrm9wy8r?pid=MOBDSGU2ZMDYENQA&otracker=from-search&srno=t_1&query=moto+g&ref=3333e9ba-9bb9-4f30-9dfe-275cbf46fbf2)

Heck you have enough left over to buy a Moto X as well.

bigross86
10 May 14,, 22:36
36628

Doktor
10 May 14,, 22:57
Hmm... (http://www.businessinsider.com/if-you-drink-wine-and-own-stock-then-you-probably-have-an-iphone-2014-5?utm_content=buffere8126&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer)

36629

Double Edge
10 May 14,, 23:04
Never!
Do not pay the apple tax and then enjoy the iOS jail.

Iphone 5c 40K INR
Apple iPhone 5C Price in India - Buy Apple iPhone 5C Pink 16 GB Online - Apple: Flipkart.com (http://www.flipkart.com/apple-iphone-5c/p/itmdv6f652fenhmq?pid=MOBDPNKCYZRUPMMC&otracker=from-search&srno=t_3&query=iphone+5c&ref=cbd73028-11e9-4986-8dbc-fe37c7a3cbe5)

Moto G 16GB variant 14k INR
Moto G Price in India - Buy Moto G Black 16 GB Online - Motorola: Flipkart.com (http://www.flipkart.com/moto-g/p/itmdsmbxcrm9wy8r?pid=MOBDSGU2ZMDYENQA&otracker=from-search&srno=t_1&query=moto+g&ref=3333e9ba-9bb9-4f30-9dfe-275cbf46fbf2)

Heck you have enough left over to buy a Moto X as well.
True but in the quest to lower prices, support is first to go with any consumer product. This is why depending on how high you buy, OS upgrades are a conditional and almost non-existent with the lower end. So they always come with the latest & greatest because that's all you will ever run on them. Then again the rate of improvement is faster on the low end so 2 years down the road the expectation is you replace it with something else.

Now consider the iphone4 gets to upgrade to iOS 7. Apple will upgrade all phones that are capable into the future. Their hardware support is also very good but this is somewhat equalised by the likes of Samsung, Nokia & Sony. Though even here getting a new replacement device is rare, refurbished or repaired is more common.

FJV
11 May 14,, 00:32
I have deliberately not bough a smartphone, because they seem to turn a lot of people into inconsiderate idiots IMHO.

So I have a cellphone that just make calls and am likely better off. (focusing on study/work without the distractions a smartphone creates)

Some co-workers my age cannot leave their smartphone alone even for 2 hours.

So I would say just a basic phone.

JAD_333
11 May 14,, 02:02
I only said Android and threw an example.

As for what makes Android better than iOS? Basically, everything. The fact that it is entirely 100% customizable and you can make your phone pretty much do anything you want, for starters. You can upgrade to a new system whenever you like, and it takes about 10 minutes. The Play Store has just about the same apps the App Store has, the two are comparable.

In a nutshell, iOS (and all Apple products) give you a phone and a system, and tell you to have fun. If you don't like it, then it sucks to be you. Android practically begs you to take the phone and make it fit your needs.

Yeah, here we go with the never ending debate between iOS and Android. I've had both and will never go back to Android. For now, let's agree to disagree. I hate debating this. The way I see it, get what you want; it all works.

JAD_333
11 May 14,, 02:07
I have deliberately not bough a smartphone, because they seem to turn a lot of people into inconsiderate idiots IMHO.

...and vegetables.


So I have a cellphone that just make calls and am likely better off. (focusing on study/work without the distractions a smartphone creates)

Some co-workers my age cannot leave their smartphone alone even for 2 hours.

So I would say just a basic phone.


True enough, but judicious use of a smartphone makes it a great tool, especially in my business. GPS, camera, web, email, messaging and even a level and a compass...all make my job a lot easier. And for time with the grand kids, Facetime is a godsend.

Bigfella
11 May 14,, 03:18
I have deliberately not bough a smartphone, because they seem to turn a lot of people into inconsiderate idiots IMHO.

So I have a cellphone that just make calls and am likely better off. (focusing on study/work without the distractions a smartphone creates)

Some co-workers my age cannot leave their smartphone alone even for 2 hours.

So I would say just a basic phone.

I'm not really a mobile phone person, but a smartphone is super convenient. it offers a bunch of genuinely useful stuff that you tend to think 'I wouldn't use that' until you actually have the chance to use it. I am pushing my mum to get one. It is easier to send texts & check email plus the map functions will help her greatly. The 'inconsiderate idiot' thing is personal choice. Use the 'off' button judiciously or just leave it in your pocket. I would never go back.

bolo121
11 May 14,, 04:58
True but in the quest to lower prices, support is first to go with any consumer product. This is why depending on how high you buy, OS upgrades are a conditional and almost non-existent with the lower end. So they always come with the latest & greatest because that's all you will ever run on them. Then again the rate of improvement is faster on the low end so 2 years down the road the expectation is you replace it with something else.

Now consider the iphone4 gets to upgrade to iOS 7. Apple will upgrade all phones that are capable into the future. Their hardware support is also very good but this is somewhat equalised by the likes of Samsung, Nokia & Sony. Though even here getting a new replacement device is rare, refurbished or repaired is more common.

True for most low end Android devices.

However even though Motorola Mobility has been sold to the Chinese, Moto X and Moto G are still treated in the same way as Google's Nexus range.
As long as the hardware can support it, they will keep getting the latest and greatest.

Even taking OS upgradeability into account, the gigantic price difference means that chucking your old Android 2 or 3 years down the line and taking another one will still be cheaper than buying a single iOS phone.

bigross86
11 May 14,, 09:10
Yeah, here we go with the never ending debate between iOS and Android. I've had both and will never go back to Android. For now, let's agree to disagree. I hate debating this. The way I see it, get what you want; it all works.

My first smartphone was Android, and I'll never, ever switch over to iOS. But like you said, let's agree to disagree. As long as it works for you and you're happy, what more do you really need?

Double Edge
11 May 14,, 10:07
I have deliberately not bough a smartphone, because they seem to turn a lot of people into inconsiderate idiots IMHO.
This is one of the reasons that goggle glass is having problems, social etiquette demands a minimum level of eye contact. That and the very high asking price.

Smart watches have the potential to do the same as well. Keep looking at your watch waiting for a notification and your audience will feel they are boring you or you are uninterested in what they have to say.


So I have a cellphone that just make calls and am likely better off. (focusing on study/work without the distractions a smartphone creates)

Some co-workers my age cannot leave their smartphone alone even for 2 hours.

So I would say just a basic phone.
Since the OP asked for a cellphone for his teen this is a suitable option as well. Affordable, cheaper to replace in case of loss, easily repairable. I would struggle to justify why someone that was happy with a feature phone should spend anywhere from 2-10x more to get something else.

Just that with teens and no whatsapp or facebook there is some ostracisatoin involved. Not in the group on an electronic level, 21st century style. What do her peers own, she will have to conform to a certain extent.

Dk__
11 May 14,, 11:12
Help!

Nokia X - is it better than the Nokia Lumia 520?



For a Teen Girl better would be to go for Nokia Lumia 525 (within your price bracket) and an even better choice would be Moto G (but is 40% :( above your intended price bracket).

Minskaya
11 May 14,, 12:18
I've tried the different platforms and prefer the Android OS. I have two smartphones (Samsung Galaxy S5 and HTC One M8) but these units are probably too pricey for a teenager. I also have a Thuraya SatSleeve on the Galaxy (161 countries via satellite).

Oracle
11 May 14,, 20:40
SB, if you need help buying a cellphone for your daughter, it's your girl who needs to be asked what she needs, since she'll be the one using it. Just a thought. :)

bonehead
12 May 14,, 06:19
LOL back in the good old days a young woman could launch a thousand ships. Today she starts a cell phone OS war. My have things changed.

Oracle beat me to it. Teens are picky and if she ends up not liking it she will find a way to make you upgrade to what will make her happy.

sated buddha
12 May 14,, 07:56
Thanks everyone for the inputs. Sadly, no forum consensus has emerged. Yes, in a perfect (parent) world, a feature phone should be perect. But DE is spot on. Kids need to fit in. And when I tried to sell her the lower priced but very nice Nokia Asha series (502, 503) she rolled her eyes, was very silent at the dinner table, and my wife kind of later sweetly told me that while the Asha ones (501) are overkill for me and my needs, our daughter and her friends are into the Nokias X/X+/XL, Lumia 520/525/620 and above (pretty chick phones with nice coors and looks), Moto G (X is for the rich kids), the Samsung Galaxies (my wife is a Samsung person, I'm a Nokia loyalist), and some other popular ones like the Lava XOLO Q900. So she basically narrowed it down to the two Nokia and came to daddy. Daddy went on to Google and got confused. So daddy came to his friends on WAB. That's the chronology.

Now this is what daddy picked up:

Lumia 520

Lighter and slimmer (marginally).
Better hardware (processor chip etc.).
Better screen, with anti-scratch coating.
Better battery and talktime (marginally).
Faster internet browzing (HDSPA something .... if provided/available).
Much better camera for photos, and better HD videos too.
Double the memory (8 GB vs 4, and upgradable to 64 GB vs 32).
Basically a more expensive phone, whose prices have now come down to almost match those of the Nokia X (which most reviews say occupies the space between the Asha series and the Lumia series).

Nokia X

Built for those who want Android.
But a workaround, which kind of left people wanting, as its "forked" Android and not the "real deal" (whatever that means)
Looks are more like the Ashas than the Lumias (I think guys like the tablet look better, girls like the smoothly curved Lumias more)
Dual SIM (versus single for the 520)
Apps (the biggest attraction).

Yes, Whatsap is a constitutional fundamental rights for kids. Unthinkable a phone without that ....

So please tell me guys. Between these two. Some consensus greatly desired.

What's so bad about Windows phones really? Never used one so have no clue one way or the other. As I never used an Android either. So its not like I'm going to be able to child/teen-proof anything. Because its the teen (and her 7 year old sister) who are the ones who teach their parents. LOL

Doktor
12 May 14,, 08:08
Nokia today is not your Nokia and will be dead (http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2340820/microsoft-nokia-deal-to-close-by-friday)very soon.

Windows is no platform for a kid. It's even more closed then iOS with less apps available.

If you go to Android (talk to the kid), go Moto or Samsung. However if the budget is tight, Chinese sell some really high-end/low-price-no-name Androids, might take it into consideration, too.

sated buddha
12 May 14,, 08:22
Nokia today is not your Nokia and will be dead (http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2340820/microsoft-nokia-deal-to-close-by-friday)very soon.

What most people do agree however (at least here in India) is that Nokias still have the best signal reception and voice quality. The prime use of a phone. Plus they are built well. I have lost count of the number of times I have dropped my current one. And the the one I had for years earlier -

36728

I love this phone man. I finally got conned into "upgrading" by family/friends/co-workers, and gave this to my mechanic. He is still using it, and I look at it wistfully every time I visit him .....

Tamara
12 May 14,, 08:52
I have deliberately not bough a smartphone, because they seem to turn a lot of people into inconsiderate idiots IMHO.

So I have a cellphone that just make calls and am likely better off. (focusing on study/work without the distractions a smartphone creates)

Some co-workers my age cannot leave their smartphone alone even for 2 hours.

So I would say just a basic phone.

I highly agree with this. The unfortunate thing is, however, that since smartphones are the thing now, is it even possible to get a basic phone?


I'm not really a mobile phone person, but a smartphone is super convenient. it offers a bunch of genuinely useful stuff that you tend to think 'I wouldn't use that' until you actually have the chance to use it. I am pushing my mum to get one. It is easier to send texts & check email plus the map functions will help her greatly. The 'inconsiderate idiot' thing is personal choice. Use the 'off' button judiciously or just leave it in your pocket. I would never go back.

Well, to each their own but quite frankly, I don't want to be bothered with e-mail when I'm away from the computer. There are only about two items I want a smart phone for: to keep me informed when I'm out collecting items off Craigs List and to check gun numbers when I'm buying.

sated buddha
12 May 14,, 10:30
Windows is no platform for a kid.

But most reviews and comparos, say that the Lumia 520 is a much better smartphone than the X. And that in the final analysis it all came down to price (saying that was the main attraction of the X).

This is what TechRadar says:

"Completing the triumvirate of Nokia platforms, the Lumia 520 is a viable offering at the budget end of the market,

In every mentionable way, the Lumia 520 beats the X. It has a much better screen and the processor in the 520 is significantly faster. The software it runs also makes much better use of the available power.

The 520 has a far more powerful camera and at 5MP, it packs in much more detail in your shots. It supports HD video recording as well.

There is more internal storage on the Lumia 520 too and with the same support for microSD cards, you are not missing out in any way.

The Lumia 520 runs Windows Phone, which is a lovely and very powerful smartphone platform, but lacks in the app department compared to Android. Of course, the Nokia X doesn't run Android, but it has the potential to run all those Android apps.

Price is the biggest issue, but still it comes in at under 100 SIM free, plus it's possible to find the 520 even cheaper on PAYG."

Nokia X review: The competition | Phone Reviews | TechRadar (http://www.techradar.com/reviews/phones/mobile-phones/nokia-x-1227006/review/7#articleContent)

So I guess my question is, if the price differential NOW is just about 500 bucks (less than $10) between the two, is the X still the preferred phone over the Lumia 520 (which used to retail for 2-3000 bucks more till very recently)?

And what are the important things that the X can do which would be missed by a 13 year old with a Lumia 520? Doktor? Double Edge?

Double Edge
12 May 14,, 13:07
Thanks everyone for the inputs. Sadly, no forum consensus has emerged. Yes, in a perfect (parent) world, a feature phone should be perect. But DE is spot on. Kids need to fit in. And when I tried to sell her the lower priced but very nice Nokia Asha series (502, 503) she rolled her eyes, was very silent at the dinner table, and my wife kind of later sweetly told me that while the Asha ones (501) are overkill for me and my needs, our daughter and her friends are into the Nokias X/X+/XL, Lumia 520/525/620 and above (pretty chick phones with nice coors and looks), Moto G (X is for the rich kids), the Samsung Galaxies (my wife is a Samsung person, I'm a Nokia loyalist), and some other popular ones like the Lava XOLO Q900. So she basically narrowed it down to the two Nokia and came to daddy. Daddy went on to Google and got confused. So daddy came to his friends on WAB. That's the chronology.
These are your choices (http://www.flipkart.com/mobile/compare?ids=MOBDJ4ZNAPHAUMSH,MOBDSAVHSYM4R7TA,MOBD SGU2QFWMHGRR,MOBDSGU2ZMDYENQA)

You need to find out from your teen how important the provision of a micro-sd card is. It allows to add up to 32GB extra memory. As the moto g does not allow for it. if she wants to store movies & songs then out of 8 GB, 5 of which is usable it will be stored on internal memory. If that's too small then the 16GB moto g is an option for 2k more. This will provide a 10-12GB usable on board. Loads & loads of space for apps. If she likes games and games can take up space more memory is better.

In developed countries and the smaller ones lead here, microsd isn't all that important as they have cheap and fast mobile internet access. Just use the cloud, store whatever online and its accessible. In India and Asia to a large extent we are still stuck on 3G and it can get pricey so the microsd option is more desirable.

The moto g has curved edges and a solid build. Its water resistant and durable. Corning gorilla glass 3 on the front which is unheard of at this price point. You could take keys and try to score the glass and it won't scratch. Bear in mind that sand however will, so a screen protector (http://www.gadgetshieldz.in/?variants%5B%5D=93&product_id=619&dispatch%5Bproducts.view%5D=Go) is always advised.

it has a flash and a front facing camera. Comes with numerous (http://www.flipkart.com/mobile-accessories/cases-and-covers/motorola~brand/pr?p%5B%5D=facets.compatible_products%255B%255D%3D Moto%2BG&p%5B%5D=sort%3Dfeatured&sid=tyy%2C4mr%2Cq2u) back cases. This is a phone that would go for Rs.5k more if it were available on the street and as such competes with those higher priced phones. By selling directly to the customer moto cuts out the street markup. They do this because they left india and have to make a strong impression with this new entry.

It does not have a user replaceable battery, only the service centre can replace it at a nominal charge.


Now this is what daddy picked up:

Lumia 520

Lighter and slimmer (marginally).
Better hardware (processor chip etc.).
Better screen, with anti-scratch coating.
Better battery and talktime (marginally).
Faster internet browzing (HDSPA something .... if provided/available).
Much better camera for photos, and better HD videos too.
Double the memory (8 GB vs 4, and upgradable to 64 GB vs 32).
Basically a more expensive phone, whose prices have now come down to almost match those of the Nokia X (which most reviews say occupies the space between the Asha series and the Lumia series).
An important advantage of nokia 525 over the 520 is that the former has 1 GB of ram whereas the 520 has 512MB. More ram means you can have more apps running otherwise to open another means to close the previous one. The 525 will be getting the windows 8.1 update in a couple of months. It's an important upgrade. The 520 is upgradeable but the lower memory means performance will be less with the newer OS.

To put things into perspective windows 8.1 is where android was back in 2012 or like android 4.0.



Nokia X

Built for those who want Android.
But a workaround, which kind of left people wanting, as its "forked" Android and not the "real deal" (whatever that means)
Looks are more like the Ashas than the Lumias (I think guys like the tablet look better, girls like the smoothly curved Lumias more)
Dual SIM (versus single for the 520)
Apps (the biggest attraction).
What she said sounds like...

Don't get me last year's Asha but this year's model is ok..

If she did not like an Asha then she should not be looking at X's because they are the successor to Asha. The pricing reflects. Don't want an Asha, then don't get one or its successor.

X's interface is a custom job that resembles more windows phone and is very different to Android. It's a lead-in to get a windows phone. Better to get a windows phone instead.

It's a disappointment if one wants android so its better to get an android phone than an X.

This is why I have no idea what purpose the X serves. Other than to target the extremely price sensitive and get them to upgrade to a real windows phone.


Yes, Whatsap is a constitutional fundamental rights for kids. Unthinkable a phone without that ....

So please tell me guys. Between these two. Some consensus greatly desired.

What's so bad about Windows phones really? Never used one so have no clue one way or the other. As I never used an Android either. So its not like I'm going to be able to child/teen-proof anything. Because its the teen (and her 7 year old sister) who are the ones who teach their parents. LOL
Loads more apps available on android than windows phone. Android is the windows of the mobile world.

I'd go with the moto g if she can live without a micro-sd card. Comes with the latest android and the most potential. Otherwise 525.

What people tend to do is fix the budget and then try to shoehorn something into it. Better way to do it is figure out your requirements and then build your budget up. if you don't know your requirements then go with something that you think will slightly exceed what you want today. But do not compromise on requirements to fit a budget.

Albany Rifles
12 May 14,, 16:48
1. Cheapest

2. Have her buy some of the minutes

3. Get insurance

Double Edge
12 May 14,, 18:37
And what are the important things that the X can do which would be missed by a 13 year old with a Lumia 520? Doktor? Double Edge?
Run android apps in limited memory. The only apps available are in the Nokia store which is NOT the google playstore.

So goggle play store would have to be side loaded, ie copy it from somewhere else and install it. I think this does not work and requires extra tweaking. Who is going to do that for her.

A 1GB android phone would do a better job, has everything required out-of-the-box. Would start her off with android the way its supposed to be. She will be way ahead of the 520 or X crowd.

Officer of Engineers
12 May 14,, 19:44
So please tell me guys. Between these two. Some consensus greatly desired.Give her the money of the phone she wants but minus 20%. Tell her to make up the difference or make do.

gunnut
12 May 14,, 20:17
I have a Lumia 620 and love it. The design of WP8 and the tiles make it look very clean and minimalistic. But try to keep the number of live tiles low, or else the screen will slow down.

Nokia makes good phones. I want my phone as a phone first, that also does some computer stuff. Not a portable computer that makes phone calls.

Nokia also has excellent GPS system with downloadable maps so one would not need to eat up data over the air to navigate.

The biggest gripe I have for WP8 is the horrible music management/playlist function. Maybe it's just me, but I cannot get that damn thing to work. I would need to create a playlist on my computer first, sync with my phone, and let it transfer all the music over. I can't just copy all the music I like over to the phone first, and then pick and choose using my phone. It's incredibly frustrating. I think it's just me, though. I haven't read many other complaints about the system.

SteveDaPirate
12 May 14,, 20:25
I'm going to echo Officer of Engineers here and recommend that you offer to contribute enough money towards a phone to buy the most basic model in the store. She can earn some money on her own if she wants a better one.

Regardless of the technical specifications of different phones, if it isn't the one she has her heart set on, you will hear about it regularly for the next couple of years. On the other hand, if she picks one out on her own, she has less room to make it your fault when it breaks/malfunctions/gets old.

cataphract
13 May 14,, 01:59
Here is a website I used for deciding on phones:
GSMArena.com - GSM phone reviews, news, opinions, votes, manuals and more... (http://www.gsmarena.com/)

My own experience with Android (Galaxy S3) has been amazing. The sheer customizability and the range of apps available make it a very versatile platform, and the S3 is very capable in supporting it.

JAD_333
13 May 14,, 07:06
This is like choosing between two also rans....:)

But if it came down to a choice between the Lumina 620 and Nokia X, I'd take the Lumina 620 hands down.

The 620's Window 8 OS is indeed a bit of a challenge, but kids get the hang of it fast. And besides the 620 is a better build with a long-life battery.

The Nokia X is klunky and slow and, as others have pointed out, its Android OS is lacking.

I think both offer 8 gig memory; anyway that ought to be enough until she realizes what she really wants is an iPhone...:) Good luck. You're a good dad.

lemontree
13 May 14,, 08:49
Sorry I saw this thread a bit late.

Which ever phone you buy, the fun will start later - with the Whatsapp, selfies, status updates....lol
Your wife trying to check her messages, wondering who she is chatting with so late...asking you to be the investigator.

I'm going through it.

Which ever phone you buy, will excite her...but she will always want a better one...lol

sated buddha
13 May 14,, 12:05
I'm going to echo Officer of Engineers here and recommend that you offer to contribute enough money towards a phone to buy the most basic model in the store. She can earn some money on her own if she wants a better one.

Steve, Colonel ..... She's just turned 13. And we don't do pocket money. The kids come to us for whatever they need. And the money they get from grandparents, relatives, etc. on birthdays and stuff, gets invested for them into bonds, etc. or put into their savings accounts, post office instruments and the like. The earning thing here in India, especially when they stay in a city away from home, on campus, usually happens after they are 18 and out of 10+2. So basically the phone, daddy. The post paid, daddy. If bill goes ballistic, daddy goes nuclear ballistic. That's the scene most households. After 3-4 years next step is going to be a gearless scooter. Also daddy. Petro, also daddy. Servicing, puncture repair, also daddy. We kind of coddle them, boys as well, definitely our girls .....


Regardless of the technical specifications of different phones, if it isn't the one she has her heart set on, you will hear about it regularly for the next couple of years. On the other hand, if she picks one out on her own, she has less room to make it your fault when it breaks/malfunctions/gets old.

Very good advice. So last evening I came home early and took her to the Nokia brand store, and then a big multi brand mobile phone store. Both places we found really knowledgeable techno geek sales guys who gave some really neat insights into both phones, as well as the coming X+ versus the X and the 525 vs the 520. She got to handle the phones at length too and check out each's features and what they do and how they do it.

Now I will leave it there and let her take the call. Problem is, taking calls here is also a daddy/mummy thing. So its a tightrope ..... I can observe and guide, but I need to make her take the call.


This is like choosing between two also rans....:)

But if it came down to a choice between the Lumina 620 and Nokia X, I'd take the Lumina 620 hands down.

The 620's Window 8 OS is indeed a bit of a challenge, but kids get the hang of it fast. And besides the 620 is a better build with a long-life battery.

The Nokia X is klunky and slow and, as others have pointed out, its Android OS is lacking.

I think both offer 8 gig memory; anyway that ought to be enough until she realizes what she really wants is an iPhone...:) Good luck. You're a good dad.

Thanks sir. I try, and I'm far from perfect. And good inputs on the phones too. Kind of dovetails perfectly with what I observed last evening. Incidentally the 520 is 8 gigs, the X is 4. The 520 also has a much more responsive (to touch) screen. And its faster (even though both have 512 Mb RAM). Plus what my kid perked up at - the 520 has Xbox games, while the X's Android games are not as fancy. Also the 520's map function is much better, faster, more detailed, with 3-D and in-building navigation and some other stuff the X does not have (though both use Nokia Here maps). Lifetime free upgrades of maps for both though. I would buy the phone just for that. 7000 bucks compared to the 10000 I just spent for my dedicated Garmin PND! And I suspect more detailed than Garmin's maps (in India).


Sorry I saw this thread a bit late.

Which ever phone you buy, the fun will start later - with the Whatsapp, selfies, status updates....lol
Your wife trying to check her messages, wondering who she is chatting with so late...asking you to be the investigator.

I'm going through it.

Which ever phone you buy, will excite her...but she will always want a better one...lol

Lol yes man. She is anyways most times on her mom's phone. That was a perfect "control." Now its like a little loss of the same. But she's a good kid. I know I've seen a lot of her friends flaunting their cells for a year or more now. But she's never asked till now. My wife and I both thought it was time (I guess with some subtle mother-daughter manipulation unbenownst to dad ....)

sated buddha
13 May 14,, 12:40
I have a Lumia 620 and love it. The design of WP8 and the tiles make it look very clean and minimalistic. But try to keep the number of live tiles low, or else the screen will slow down.

Nokia makes good phones. I want my phone as a phone first, that also does some computer stuff. Not a portable computer that makes phone calls.

Nokia also has excellent GPS system with downloadable maps so one would not need to eat up data over the air to navigate.

The biggest gripe I have for WP8 is the horrible music management/playlist function. Maybe it's just me, but I cannot get that damn thing to work. I would need to create a playlist on my computer first, sync with my phone, and let it transfer all the music over. I can't just copy all the music I like over to the phone first, and then pick and choose using my phone. It's incredibly frustrating. I think it's just me, though. I haven't read many other complaints about the system.

I agree about Nokia making great phones, and about a phone still needing to be a good phone first, and a good computer/playstation/GPS/organizer/music player/camera second. And the Lumias are known to be great cameras as well, and also XBox derived gaming devices. The GPS is great too from what little I've seen (the neat thing is that like a PND you can download and store maps and use those for navigation without having any internet connectivity or cellphone coverage - in effect a mobile PND, at a really cheap price. And lifetime free updates. I'm really feeling cheated at having my Garmin just recently!). WP8.1 is to be launched next month, which is supposed to be even better than the current system. And the 520 can run it as well, not just the 525. What really surprised me was that even though on paper the screen specs of the Lumia and X are the same, the Lumia screen is really sensitive to even a really light tough, very smooth, while there is a distinct lag to (firmer needed) touch in the X.

Double Edge
13 May 14,, 15:26
But if it came down to a choice between the Lumina 620 and Nokia X, I'd take the Lumina 620 hands down.

The 620's Window 8 OS is indeed a bit of a challenge, but kids get the hang of it fast. And besides the 620 is a better build with a long-life battery.
Yes but the 520 or rather 525 is a better contender.

the 620 has worse battery (http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=5147&idPhone2=5322#results) life than the 520 (look for the term endurance rating). 30s is mediocre, 40s is average, 50s is ok.

Then Nokia came out with the 625 and 630. Both held onto 512MB ram and the 630 lost its flash.

The 620 is the middle kid that never got as much attention as the 520 (price) or 720 (camera) got. Reason being the 620 was priced closer to the 720 than in between. The 720 stood out with its unique form factor and camera that rivaled android phones priced 50% higher. The only bugbear was the 512 MB ram. Otherwise the 720 was a winner in all aspects.


I think both offer 8 gig memory; anyway that ought to be enough until she realizes what she really wants is an iPhone...:) Good luck. You're a good dad.
I suspect part of the reason people go for the 620 is it has the same soap bar form factor as the iphone, it looks like a 5c.

8GB means 5 GB usable which is what you care about.

The key differentiator is ram, or what you run and how much of at any given point of time, 525 has 1GB, so can run more than the others. More future proof. 525 is a better 520.

525 >> 520, 620, 630

sated buddha
13 May 14,, 15:44
The key differentiator is ram, or what you run and how much of at any given point of time, 525 has 1GB, so can run more than the others. More future proof. 525 is a better 520.

525 >> 520, 620, 630

DE, on this issue of RAM, the 525 comes with 1GB. And the soon to come X+ will do the same upgrade for the X.

But in actual life how much of a difference does it actually make - this is what I aske both tech geeks we spoke to (one of who had the 520 as his personal phone). Both said 512MB does not mean hanging, things getting slow, or pixellation/jumping (X they said has that compared to the 520 - especially for videos). Its mainly that the 525 can manage much better the newer XBox complex games much better than the 520 can - which was one of the main reasons for the upgrade. Gaming.

But for the current games (and music and videos) of the 520, 512MB is sufficient. So how important really is the increased RAM? I do understand its always good to have.

Double Edge
13 May 14,, 16:07
I agree about Nokia making great phones, and about a phone still needing to be a good phone first, and a good computer/playstation/GPS/organizer/music player/camera second. And the Lumias are known to be great cameras as well, and also XBox derived gaming devices. The GPS is great too from what little I've seen (the neat thing is that like a PND you can download and store maps and use those for navigation without having any internet connectivity or cellphone coverage - in effect a mobile PND, at a really cheap price. And lifetime free updates. I'm really feeling cheated at having my Garmin just recently!). WP8.1 is to be launched next month, which is supposed to be even better than the current system. And the 520 can run it as well, not just the 525. What really surprised me was that even though on paper the screen specs of the Lumia and X are the same, the Lumia screen is really sensitive to even a really light tough, very smooth, while there is a distinct lag to (firmer needed) touch in the X.
- want a good phone then a feature phone is best. The thing with those other features is they grow on you after a point. If you can keep your requirements strict you will be ok but that can be difficult.

- great lumia cameras are 720, 920, 1020 & 1520. At the price point you're looking at there is nothing special about the camera compared to the competition.

- GPS is an important differntiator that nokia provided a proper GPS even with the 520. This was a first at the price point. No need for a phone connection for navigation. Not much use if you are indoors which is where A-GPS is better. The moto G has it too, problem is you can't hold it in your hand as its not available on the street.

- 520 can run 8.1 but it will run it in half the space the 525 can. Which for a mere 1k extra is a no brainer.

- you're referring to touch screen quality here and nokia did improve this a great deal over the tier-2 or even tier-3 touch screens that the low end android phones provided up to that point.

- when it comes to salespeople the only thing i want to hear from them is how much they can take off the asking price. If you want to get the best for your money then you need to know the product better than the person selling it to you. Buyer beware. They will always recommend what they have for sale, maybe they want to clear inventory or get a better commission. They never recommend what they do not have for sale.

your question has two parts to it. The technical side is close to settled i would think, harder is the management aspect of it. You will have to be prepared for the day she comes home in tears because it got lost or broke and you're looking at a replacement cost. This will influence your initial purchase. Cheaper is better in that case but otherwise she gets by with less.

It's one thing to recommend a to a person that will purchase with their own money vice for somebody else who does not, especially a teen :)


DE, on this issue of RAM, the 525 comes with 1GB. And the soon to come X+ will do the same upgrade for the X.

But in actual life how much of a difference does it actually make - this is what I aske both tech geeks we spoke to (one of who had the 520 as his personal phone). Both said 512MB does not mean hanging, things getting slow, or pixellation/jumping (X they said has that compared to the 520 - especially for videos). Its mainly that the 525 can manage much better the newer XBox complex games much better than the 520 can - which was one of the main reasons for the upgrade. Gaming.

But for the current games (and music and videos) of the 520, 512MB is sufficient. So how important really is the increased RAM? I do understand its always good to have.
You will get by today. The bigger question is the future. 512MB is too small for 2014.

6 months later to a year down the road things change. Apps become demanding. You can never have enough RAM or storage space.

I'm looking at this solely from a technical point of view, you might be looking at it from a larger perspective.

How long do you want this phone to be good for until the next upgrade ?

Dk__
13 May 14,, 18:30
To hell with Lumia 525. Get her the Moto E (⌐■_■).
Will be launched tomorrow in India and will be initially available through Flipkart @Rs.7000. Specs: Android 4.4 and 5MP Camera.

Dk__
13 May 14,, 18:34
Off Topic: I made a post the other day in this (http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/central-south-asia/65195-bjp-puts-no-first-use-nuclear-policy-doubt.html) thread. I got a message saying the post will be reviewed before getting published. It hasn't got published yet.

So do I need to make 25 posts in these random threads before getting the privilege of posting in more general threads without the consent of the Mod's :( :confu:

Oracle
13 May 14,, 18:37
You need to introduce yourself in here (http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/wab-information-center/61571-introduction-thread-all-new-members-new-post.html), before you get into active discussions. It's rude. And we'd like to know what we're up against. :)

Dk__
13 May 14,, 18:42
You need to introduce yourself in here (http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/wab-information-center/61571-introduction-thread-all-new-members-new-post.html), before you get into active discussions. We'd like to know what we're up against.

IIRC you're the same member who used to make drunk posts on that other defence forum :biggrin:

Oracle
13 May 14,, 18:46
IIRC you're the same member who used to make drunk posts on that other defence forum :biggrin:

Got a job kid? You still remember me. :) Welcome to WAB, but do make an introductory post or the bears would come to hunt you.

Dk__
13 May 14,, 19:59
Got a job kid? You still remember me. :) Welcome to WAB, but do make an introductory post or the bears would come to hunt you.

I don't think I can reply to PM right now.

sated buddha
13 May 14,, 20:34
To hell with Lumia 525. Get her the Moto E (⌐■_■).
Will be launched tomorrow in India and will be initially available through Flipkart @Rs.7000. Specs: Android 4.4 and 5MP Camera.

Looks really ugly compared to the stylish Lumia.

And it apparently takes sub average photos from the initial impressions.

What about Navigation?

Double Edge
13 May 14,, 22:42
Also comes with half the storage at 4GB which means your usable is 2GB and under, quite cramped.

e is half a moto g.

520 broke the 10k barrier.

A Rs.7k android phone hmmm.

I'd wait for reviews on this one.

sated buddha
14 May 14,, 07:37
Also comes with half the storage at 4GB which means your usable is 2GB and under, quite cramped.

e is half a moto g.

520 broke the 10k barrier.

A Rs.7k android phone hmmm.

I'd wait for reviews on this one.

Looks is half the battle for a female teen bro.

She took one look at the photos of the Moto E on the net with me last night and made her decision. Technicalities be damned.

Doktor
14 May 14,, 08:22
Looks is half the battle for a female teen bro.

She took one look at the photos of the Moto E on the net with me last night and made her decision. Technicalities be damned.

Reminds me of a friend (female) that asked me for an advice on her new car. She pick the most expensive, less reliable car, that was not in her initial considerations. The reason? "Looks cute and has plenty of room dedicated for small things inside". Doesn't matter that she was looking for a small city car and ended with an MPV that costed 2x as much as her initial budget.

Double Edge
14 May 14,, 10:48
Looks is half the battle for a female teen bro.

She took one look at the photos of the Moto E on the net with me last night and made her decision. Technicalities be damned.
I did not get that impression so far that looks were all that important. With older girls this can be more significant :)

How about the moto g ?


Reminds me of a friend (female) that asked me for an advice on her new car. She pick the most expensive, less reliable car, that was not in her initial considerations. The reason? "Looks cute and has plenty of room dedicated for small things inside". Doesn't matter that she was looking for a small city car and ended with an MPV that costed 2x as much as her initial budget.
men are just as susceptible to looks as well :biggrin:

marketing people have realised that people do not have time to research products so the simplest way to stand out is to look better. Sprinkle in a few buzz words. This in most cases gets you shortlisted and then people talk about price. No where in this is requirements at all.

sated buddha
14 May 14,, 10:51
I did not get that impression so far that looks were all that important. With older girls this can be more important :)

How about the moto g ?

G is too pricey man. Need some "give" in reserve when she comes to me in tears, or otherwise, for the next one.

Which I'm hoping will be after she finishes school ..... another 3 years from now.

Oracle
14 May 14,, 10:58
SB, next in line of demands would be a Honda scooty.

sated buddha
14 May 14,, 11:00
SB, next in line of demands would be a Honda scooty.

Yes. Maybe 3-4 years for that too.

Doktor
14 May 14,, 11:03
SB, next in line of demands would be a Honda scooty.

Who needs Honda, when one can cry for Vespa and drive boys (and parents) crazy later?

36749

Oracle
14 May 14,, 11:06
Who needs Honda, when one can cry for Vespa and drive boys (and parents) crazy later?

36749

Dok is intelligent. The next demand in line after a scooty.

Btw, Moto G is like 23K+ right? Not too expensive I guess.

sated buddha
14 May 14,, 11:07
Who needs Honda, when one can cry for Vespa and drive boys (and parents) crazy later?

Vespa lover? Really nice, but way too pricey here in India.

Honda and TVS (Suzuki too) make really nice scooters, at 25% less price points. Honda Aviator, TVS Jupiter and Suzuki Swish (my wife wanted one once upon a time - hence the research).

Doktor
14 May 14,, 11:10
Honda makes great Bikes, no reason to suspect their scooters.

I am more of a 4 wheel kind of guy. Too risky to have only 2 wheels around here.

Tamara
14 May 14,, 12:03
Who needs Honda, when one can cry for Vespa and drive boys (and parents) crazy later?

36749

"Roman Holiday".....I presume?

Doktor
14 May 14,, 12:12
Hovering with the mouse over the pic will reveal it's correct.

However, the point was the faces (Audrey's grin in particular).

Tamara
14 May 14,, 12:57
Hovering with the mouse over the pic will reveal it's correct.

However, the point was the faces (Audrey's grin in particular).

Oh, okay.

Me, just on something of an Audrey kick here right now, so I recognized the people and situation and just knew.

Double Edge
14 May 14,, 13:00
G is too pricey man. Need some "give" in reserve when she comes to me in tears, or otherwise, for the next one.

Which I'm hoping will be after she finishes school ..... another 3 years from now.
Aha! so she has not ruled it out then.

9 x 2 (or 3 if you're unlucky) = 27k
12 x 2 (or 3) = 36k

Is 6-9k going to break the bank ?

Stick the balance in a fixed deposit, call it the contingency fund.

Android will be more fun than WP.

sated buddha
14 May 14,, 13:09
Aha! so she has not ruled it out then.

9 x 2 (or 3 if you're unlucky) = 27k
12 x 2 (or 3) = 36k

Is 6-9k going to break the bank ?

Stick the balance in a fixed deposit, call it the contingency fund.

Please man, et tu? Its not the money and its definitely not something that requires complex financial manipulation or calculations.

Its simply a mental thing and how we've brought up our kids.

27-26K for a phone is simply unthinkable. Not just for a 13 year old but for me as well. 7.5K for the 520 was perfect till you put the 1GB thing into my (and her) head. So now its 9K for the 525 (which is pretty close to my mental WTF limit for a phone).

Also on the Moto G - it looks exactly like the Moto E (just marginally bigger and with an LED flash at the back). So that's a no no on the looks/cool/bling factor right there, regardless of the wizardry inside.

I wouldn't personally mind one which looks like this though .....

36751


Android will be more fun than WP.

And now you've confused me even further. You were the WP champion on this thread up until now!

Doktor
14 May 14,, 13:23
WP is not for teens. Period.

sated buddha
14 May 14,, 13:30
The previous carbon fiber one was better .....

36752

Doktor
14 May 14,, 13:40
Not impressed.

Double Edge
14 May 14,, 17:23
Which I'm hoping will be after she finishes school ..... another 3 years from now.

3 years is a long time for a budget model. So you can see 1GB ram on the 525 is better than the 520 which is already a year old.


Please man, et tu? Its not the money and its definitely not something that requires complex financial manipulation or calculations.

Its simply a mental thing and how we've brought up our kids.

27-26K for a phone is simply unthinkable. Not just for a 13 year old but for me as well. 7.5K for the 520 was perfect till you put the 1GB thing into my (and her) head. So now its 9K for the 525 (which is pretty close to my mental WTF limit for a phone).
27k is how much you would need for 3 x 525 phones. If she loses a phone at the rate of one per year. Am not aware of any insurance options for mobiles. No contract phones in India either which would bring the price down significantly. Everything is bought without contract in India. Which works out cheaper long term but has a higher upfront cost.


Also on the Moto G - it looks exactly like the Moto E (just marginally bigger and with an LED flash at the back). So that's a no no on the looks/cool/bling factor right there, regardless of the wizardry inside.
Beause WP is weak on the apps side so they have to hook you in other ways ;)

Have to admit that people feel a bit nervous to recommend moto because they worry about support. Samsung or Nokia are the safe options. But moto has a number of service centres around the country already. If your city is in this list (https://motorola-mobility-en-in.custhelp.com/ci/fattach/get/843720/1395428660/redirect/1/filename/Updated%20MASC%20list%20-%2017th%20Mar%2014.pdf) then you should be fine.


And now you've confused me even further. You were the WP champion on this thread up until now!
All i did was mention a couple of strong contenders for either platform. WP is fine so long as you know what you want and what you don't need. How clear is your teen on that point ?

WP apps and how well they work.

If she is then you're safe, otherwise you'll get to hear how this or that does not run on WP and she wished she had an android.

gunnut
15 May 14,, 20:17
I agree about Nokia making great phones, and about a phone still needing to be a good phone first, and a good computer/playstation/GPS/organizer/music player/camera second. And the Lumias are known to be great cameras as well, and also XBox derived gaming devices. The GPS is great too from what little I've seen (the neat thing is that like a PND you can download and store maps and use those for navigation without having any internet connectivity or cellphone coverage - in effect a mobile PND, at a really cheap price. And lifetime free updates. I'm really feeling cheated at having my Garmin just recently!). WP8.1 is to be launched next month, which is supposed to be even better than the current system. And the 520 can run it as well, not just the 525. What really surprised me was that even though on paper the screen specs of the Lumia and X are the same, the Lumia screen is really sensitive to even a really light tough, very smooth, while there is a distinct lag to (firmer needed) touch in the X.

I will have to correct you on that. High end Lumias with Pureview cameras take awesome pictures. My 620, and all lower end Lumias, have mediocre cameras. They are only OK in bright day light. Anything less and the pictures show a lot of noise. The colors are not bright, look kinda faded for some reason.

gunnut
15 May 14,, 20:21
Reminds me of a friend (female) that asked me for an advice on her new car. She pick the most expensive, less reliable car, that was not in her initial considerations. The reason? "Looks cute and has plenty of room dedicated for small things inside". Doesn't matter that she was looking for a small city car and ended with an MPV that costed 2x as much as her initial budget.

Sounds like a Pentagon acquisition project....

Doktor
15 May 14,, 22:29
Sounds like a Pentagon acquisition project....

That comment is priceless.

Double Edge
15 May 14,, 23:44
I will have to correct you on that. High end Lumias with Pureview cameras take awesome pictures. My 620, and all lower end Lumias, have mediocre cameras. They are only OK in bright day light. Anything less and the pictures show a lot of noise. The colors are not bright, look kinda faded for some reason.
Have go to ask why you went with the 620 over the 720 ?

As a side note the 525 slightly edges out the moto g on voice quality and camera. But you have to balance that with OS.

As for low light, if you can install nokia camera onto your device then you can slow the shutter speed. Then lower your ISO to get finer grain. These are manual settings. You can't get this in auto.

Slow shutter + low iso = less noise.

Nokia camera can slow the shutter down as slow as 4 seconds.

You need steady hands or a stand and a stationary subject. Though i've seen 1/4s handheld shots with no blur.

gunnut
16 May 14,, 01:57
Have go to ask why you went with the 620 over the 720 ?

One word: price



As a side note the 525 slightly edges out the moto g on voice quality and camera. But you have to balance that with OS.

Unfortunately I bought my 620 more than a year ago and 525 wasn't available back then.



As for low light, if you can install nokia camera onto your device then you can slow the shutter speed. Then lower your ISO to get finer grain. These are manual settings. You can't get this in auto.

Slow shutter + low iso = less noise.

Nokia camera can slow the shutter down as slow as 4 seconds.

You need steady hands or a stand and a stationary subject. Though i've seen 1/4s handheld shots with no blur.

Very good advice. I will definitely try that. Thanks.

Tamara
16 May 14,, 02:28
As long as we have this discussion going, how about for an older newbie?

I have a phone line with T-Mobile, not currently in use, that I am thinking of transferring to a smart phone.

Thing is, I see a smart phone as a link to the Net for necessary information access for a task I am on, not as something I am attached to 24/7. Right now, that access is seen as to keep up with Craig's List when I am out gathering supplies, perhaps map reference as I travel (I am not going to have some machine tell me where to go, I know how to navigate just fine), or checking serial numbers when I am out buying guns.

Given that there might be an expansion of those kinds of applications, what would you recommend?

gunnut
16 May 14,, 02:33
Amazon.com: Nokia Lumia 520 GoPhone (AT&T): Cell Phones & Accessories (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E45043A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)

$65 outright, no contract.


Amazon.com: Nokia Lumia 521 (T-Mobile): Cell Phones & Accessories (http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Lumia-521-T-Mobile/dp/B00COYOAYW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400200233&sr=8-1&keywords=lumia+521)

$86 outright, no contract, if you really want to stick with Tmobile.

Tamara
16 May 14,, 02:55
Amazon.com: Nokia Lumia 520 GoPhone (AT&T): Cell Phones & Accessories (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00E45043A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)

$65 outright, no contract.


Amazon.com: Nokia Lumia 521 (T-Mobile): Cell Phones & Accessories (http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Lumia-521-T-Mobile/dp/B00COYOAYW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1400200233&sr=8-1&keywords=lumia+521)

$86 outright, no contract, if you really want to stick with Tmobile.

Sounds good......for as far as I know. Keep in mind that I have only been using a cell phone since 2005 and of that, two phones, that latest being a Razor that I have been using for years.

So my learning curve is essentially starting at ZERO. If someone suggests something with a techie word or two, there is a decent chance they have said nothing to me.

For example, this thing about checking gun serial numbers. I don't know if I can find a site for that or it may be that I might have to build a database for that to compare against. For example, I like buying Uzi's. Many years ago at a gun show, someone had a full size, short barrel, Uzi pistol on sale. They said it had always been a pistol, that it didn't need the SBR clearances.

Okay, that's fine for him to say that but I would want to be sure before I bought something like that, so my first thought would be to run the serial numbers to see if it ever showed up as a rifle, maybe to see if any pictures come up of the serial number showing said pistol with a collapsable stock.

So for an approach like that, what is recommended?

Double Edge
16 May 14,, 11:28
Very good advice. I will definitely try that. Thanks.
Key point is the subject must be stationary, only good for still life shots. If the subject is moving then you need more light otherwise iso gets bumped up and you get noise. As a noisy but clear shot is better than the opposite.

Trick with slow shutter is hand holding technique. That hardware button that launches the camera, is only good for launching. For blur free slow shutter you need to use the onscreen shutter button, a gentle swipe. Hardware button produces camera shake.

You're a shooter so you have steady hands, know about hand holds and to pull the trigger at the end of an exhale.

Hold the phone close to your chest, the backs of your thumbs rest on your upper chest. You' don't have to hold it very tight, thumb back rubs against your chest for friction. So you're using your body to stabilise the camera. This will work even for people with shaky hands. Can't see the screen so you have to compose the shot before. Do not use zoom at all.

General speaking, its difficult to get a steady handheld shot if shutter speed is more (ie slower) than the reciprocal of the lens focal length. 620 says it has a 28mm (equivalent), this means 1/30s is the slowest you can go handheld.

But with phones its really around 3-4mm so 1/4-1/8s is the upper limit to get a steady handheld shot. You can go slower still if you lie down instead of standing with the same hand hold.

Drop the iso as low as it will go, then try slower shutters till you can get enough exposure.

Double Edge
16 May 14,, 11:41
So my learning curve is essentially starting at ZERO. If someone suggests something with a techie word or two, there is a decent chance they have said nothing to me.
Think screen size. Are you ok with holding it up one foot away from your face every time you want to read something or would you prefer to have it at arms length and still be legible.

Since you're browsing the web, some websites have a mobile optimised version that makes readability easier, others do not and it can be difficult to locate numbers on a busy page with a small (4 -4.5 inch) screen. You can always increase font size but then you have to scroll a lot.

A small screen helps with portability but compromises on readability.

sated buddha
09 Jun 14,, 08:27
This thread I started kind of slipped my attention so I forgot to update you guys. We finally got my kid a red Nokia Lumia 520. She loves it and has taken to it like a duck to water! Its surprisingly slim and light for its size too. And looks well built. Got a good deal on Amazon too, so both dad and daughter are happy. Thanks all! :)

P.S. Rememebering LT's warning, I was informed by my wife yesterday that 13 year old girls use words like "slut" on WhatsApp. Sigh, cringe .....

Double Edge
09 Jun 14,, 15:29
520 :bang:

sated buddha
09 Jun 14,, 15:37
520 :bang:

Ya. I got it for 2K less than the lowest the 525 was going for. I was not willing to get a 13 year old a 10K phone man. Not just for fancier gaming.

Double Edge
09 Jun 14,, 16:34
Well, the possibility existed of getting a 7k (http://www.flipkart.com/motorola/motoe?otracker=ts_motorola_explore_motoe) android phone. Which has been getting good reviews. But i think the 520 is better overall. With the 8.1 update it will be better still.

525 (http://www.flipkart.com/nokia-lumia-525/p/itmdv6f5ngr5bcsb?pid=MOBDSAVHSYM4R7TA) is not 10k

oh well.

Friend of mine wanted something similar, not for his teenage daughter but himself, ends up with the s duos (!) for 9k. Would not listen to the wife to get a moto because he does not like motorola. What does he want it for ? whatsapp and phone. He does not need anything else. heh, i told him to see how he feels a year from now :biggrin:

It amazes me how just to save 3 k people will compromise on future advantages ie more life, better experience. Price alone is misleading as you do not understand (yet) what you give up. With contract phones you don't care, you will get an upgrade a year or two later but we don't have that here, i would want a phone to last at least 2-4 years before the next upgrade.

bolo121
09 Jun 14,, 18:51
I agree DE.
Moto G is well worth the extra 3k.
The S duos! Its a real horrible lemon that one of my buddies in office suffers with.

For 10k i would have avoided the Nokias and plumped for the Sony Xperia M.
I got it for my wife last year and its a little gem. Smooth, no lag or overheating and runs every app she installs easily.

Double Edge
09 Jun 14,, 19:14
His wife the ever knowing engineer decides she wants a big screen and settles for a midrange mega 5.8 for 25k instead of a flagship best seller note 2 that goes for 28k.

She figures she saved 3k :bang:

bolo121
09 Jun 14,, 19:24
His wife the ever knowing engineer decides she wants a big screen and settles for a midrange mega 5.8 for 25k instead of a flagship best seller note 2 that goes for 28k.

She figures she saved 3k :bang:

Sheer madness. The note 2 is a very slick bit of kit.

I personally have been targeting the Nexus 5.
In spite of my kid's voracious ability to burn through cash, I have been able to squirrel away a bit here a bit there.
The next time anyone I know goes to the US I will request them to get it for me.
Its around 23k there.

kato
09 Jun 14,, 23:30
Am I the only one who upon reading the thread title thought:

- one that you can blacklist or whitelist numbers for.
- one that mysteriously craps out on internet porn sites.
- one that mysteriously runs out of battery the moment a phone call would get pricey.
- one that needs to be plugged into a single designated, fixed socket and needs to be touched while recharging so you know she's actually there.
- one that bounces any texts or pics sent via your phone for approval.

bonehead
10 Jun 14,, 05:19
LOL. The daughter probably already knows how to use the phones better than the father.

sated buddha
10 Jun 14,, 07:13
The way I look at it, cellphones in India exist in segments of 2.5K. There is the 5K segment which I am comfortable in (Nokia feature phone, Asha series). Then there is the 7.5K segment (the phones we have been talking about here). Next is the 10K segment, then 12.5K, and then 15K. My daughter refused the 5K segment and was more than happy with the 7.5K segment and what it had to offer. She did not need to jump straight to the 10K segment. I am happy I have good contended kids with feet on the ground. Rather than some of her friends who use "slut" like we use "dude" !!! And if you see the little things, they are perfect daddy's angels. Man ....

gunnut
10 Jun 14,, 20:58
Don't spend too much on fancy phones. Spend just enough to get by for the next 2 years. Then buy a new one to take advantage of new tech and lowered cost of older but proven tech.

bolo121
11 Jun 14,, 06:11
Don't spend too much on fancy phones. Spend just enough to get by for the next 2 years. Then buy a new one to take advantage of new tech and lowered cost of older but proven tech.

I tend to run a four year cycle. My current phone has about 6 months left and so I have already planned and saved up for a replacement.
If you save a bit here and there over a couple of years its easy to get even a fancy 50,000 INR phone like the note 3.

sated buddha
11 Jun 14,, 06:58
I prefer the same 2-3 year cycle for a bike. Same concept. Save a bit here and there. Build a decent corpus. Then sell the existing bike, add in the corpus to what I get, and get myself a bigger faster upgrade.

A phone for me frankly is a talking, texting/WhatsApping, and WAB browzing tool. And my morning alarm.

Double Edge
11 Jun 14,, 11:47
I tend to run a four year cycle. My current phone has about 6 months left and so I have already planned and saved up for a replacement.
what's your current phone ?

I'm thinking along the same lines too of a 4 year cycle but only reason i can do that is because the tech has come a long way since and i don't expect changes to be as much in the next 4 compared to the last 4. it boggles my mind you could hold on to a device for 4 years when the rate of change was the fastest.


If you save a bit here and there over a couple of years its easy to get even a fancy 50,000 INR phone like the note 3.
41.5k (http://www.flipkart.com/samsung-galaxy-note-3-n9000/p/itmdv6f5dmrdkj2h)

The S5 was an even bigger surprise, launched at 51k now goes for 38k, what just two months after launch. The steepest drop in the s series yet. Usually i expect a 10% drop as supplies build up after two months. S5 saw much more than that. it's like samsung reviews sales targets and then says cut the price we need to sell more.

I've moved away from samsung as they won't do a snapdragon cpu in india or at least give us the choice.

sated buddha
11 Jun 14,, 11:51
what's your current phone ?


it boggles my mind you could hold on to a device for 4 years when the rate of change was the fastest.

I wish technology had advanced sufficiently enough so that I could have taken a photo of my phone with my phone and posted it her to boggle you a bit more.:biggrin:

Doktor
11 Jun 14,, 12:02
I wish technology had advanced sufficiently enough so that I could have taken a photo of my phone with my phone and posted it her to boggle you a bit more.:biggrin:

But you can. A selfie from your phone ;)

sated buddha
11 Jun 14,, 12:06
But you can. A selfie from your phone ;)

Of my phone? How?

Short of going to the rest room, waiting for it to clear, and then taking a photo of the phone in the mirror .....

Doktor
11 Jun 14,, 12:13
Of my phone? How?

Short of going to the rest room, waiting for it to clear, and then taking a photo of the phone in the mirror .....

Your wife has no mirror in the sleeping room? :eek:

Or you can politely ask your daughter to take a snap of it with her fancy new phone.

sated buddha
11 Jun 14,, 12:16
Your wife has no mirror in the sleeping room? :eek:

Man my bedroom is out of bounds to the kids and WAB!


Or you can politely ask your daughter to take a snap of it with her fancy new phone.

Today I have to go with her and get her SIM card cut or something and then get her Internet.

DE, for kids, is it better to go pre-paid or just add her number to my IDEA post paid account (along with my wife's ..... I'm going to bleed)

Doktor
11 Jun 14,, 12:18
Man my bedroom is out of bounds to the kids and WAB!

Well then, rearview mirror of your bike. You are out of imagination.


Today I have to go with her and get her SIM card cut or something and then get her Internet.
MicroSIM.


DE, for kids, is it better to go pre-paid or just add her number to my IDEA post paid account (along with my wife's ..... I'm going to bleed)
Pre-paid. But, no point if you go soft on her plan.

sated buddha
11 Jun 14,, 12:22
Pre-paid. But, no point if you go soft on her plan.

I did not get this? We have a 199 and 299 Internet plan. The 299 is what I have. My wife has 399 which is even more. This is rupees, monthly usage.

Also, this funda about dual SIM phones, one for calling, and the other for Internet. How does that work? Why not one SIM for both? What's the catch here?

I am so out of my comfort zone here man .....

Doktor
11 Jun 14,, 12:30
IDK how it goes in India.

Over here I have one SIM, one phone, one fee for entire month - unlimited calls, SMS's and 5GB 4G net (the speed goes down after the 5th GB) for 8 EUR/month.

sated buddha
11 Jun 14,, 12:34
IDK how it goes in India.

Over here I have one SIM, one phone, one fee for entire month - unlimited calls, SMS's and 5GB 4G net (the speed goes down after the 5th GB) for 8 EUR/month.

That's why I was asking the Indian cell guru here. But he's busy. :(

Doktor
11 Jun 14,, 12:36
That's why I was asking the Indian cell guru here. But he's busy. :(

Give her a budget and tell her to get herself a plan of her choice.

Double Edge
11 Jun 14,, 12:41
Pre-paid. But, no point if you go soft on her plan.
What he said.


Also, this funda about dual SIM phones, one for calling, and the other for Internet. How does that work? Why not one SIM for both? What's the catch here?

I am so out of my comfort zone here man .....
Allows you to take advantage of cheaper data plans from competitors.

The main use for dual sim is people live in one area where they get coverage from one provider and work in another which isn't covered by the first. So you can access both networks with one phone instead of two.

There are two types here,
- dual active, can be reached on either number.
- dual standby, can only use one at a time.

sated buddha
11 Jun 14,, 12:43
What he said.

Some more details on IDEA vs Vodafone in terms of plans? What do you use?

And the dual SIM thing wrt Internet separate from calling?

Double Edge
11 Jun 14,, 12:49
Where i live Airtel rules. Choice is determined by who got licenses to operate 3G. For karnataka its BSNL, tata & Airtel. It's differs by state.

you will have to check the plans of either provider in your area and see which works best. you don't have to use two providers.

bolo121
11 Jun 14,, 20:11
what's your current phone ?

I'm thinking along the same lines too of a 4 year cycle but only reason i can do that is because the tech has come a long way since and i don't expect changes to be as much in the next 4 compared to the last 4. it boggles my mind you could hold on to a device for 4 years when the rate of change was the fastest.


41.5k (http://www.flipkart.com/samsung-galaxy-note-3-n9000/p/itmdv6f5dmrdkj2h)

The S5 was an even bigger surprise, launched at 51k now goes for 38k, what just two months after launch. The steepest drop in the s series yet. Usually i expect a 10% drop as supplies build up after two months. S5 saw much more than that. it's like samsung reviews sales targets and then says cut the price we need to sell more.

I've moved away from samsung as they won't do a snapdragon cpu in india or at least give us the choice.

My current phone is a Samsung Note1. Paid aroung 27k for it (32k - 5000 for my old nokia). It was my last huzzah before the wife mapped out all my behaviours and cracked down.
I always target a phone that fulfils my requirements at the time but is still powerful to run most apps some years down the line.
So even if a new one released, I dont care that much.

Amazed that Note3 is 41k, people in my office got it for 48k just 3 months ago.
After so many years I'm sort of fed up of samsung and looking for a change.
The Nexus is just unbeatable value.

Double Edge
11 Jun 14,, 23:27
My current phone is a Samsung Note1. Paid aroung 27k for it (32k - 5000 for my old nokia). It was my last huzzah before the wife mapped out all my behaviours and cracked down.
I always target a phone that fulfils my requirements at the time but is still powerful to run most apps some years down the line.
So even if a new one released, I dont care that much.
Note 1 came out Dec 2011, so around 2.5 years ago. I have a friend with that same model, loves it, when i asked him if he was upgrading he said why. It's big enough so its easier to read and if you look at flagships today around the same size. So it was a good pick. At the time it must have really stood out, 5.3 inches vs the 4.3 and smaller which was the norm back then.


Amazed that Note3 is 41k, people in my office got it for 48k just 3 months ago.
best time to get a flagship is 3 to 6 months after launch but few want to wait that long. Having the latest flagship is like a status symbol for some people.


After so many years I'm sort of fed up of samsung and looking for a change.
The Nexus is just unbeatable value.
Value yes, but nexus 5 battery (http://www.gsmarena.com/battery-test.php3?idPhone=5705) is mediocre to average (by today's standards). Note 1 battery is the same, so if you could get by it then fine. Also non user replaceable battery and no micro sd card.

If you wait, the G3 will come out soon (slightly smaller (http://www.phonearena.com/phones/Samsung-GALAXY-Note_id6116/size/LG-G3/phones/8347)), as will the successor to the moto x and there might be a nexus 6 but that will be in Oct. hopefully by then things will be a little more clear wrt to 4G. LG already released an updated G2 with 4G if you live in one of the 5 cities that Airtel covers.

There is doubt whether the nexus line will continue or not after google mentioned android silver which is oem device but with stock android. Whether we will ever see silver 'anything' in India.

bolo121
12 Jun 14,, 06:41
I do agree that the Nexus 5 has two problems, the battery and the lack of an SD card.
My view is that my samsung already has a similar battery and my total data never exceeded even 25 GB. I have a fairly average 15GB worth of music and the rest is ebooks, documents and random other stuff.

Its innards are even now top notch and so for 23k is just too good to pass up.
As you said phones ae stabilizing now and most phones will run pretty much every app you need without a fuss.
I am probably never ever going to cross the 30k barrier again.
So this automatically removes LG G3/G2 or the new HTC.

I was not impressed by the Android Silver thing, it will push prices up compared to existing nexus devices.
Companies will use them as premium devices.

Double Edge
12 Jun 14,, 19:25
I do agree that the Nexus 5 has two problems, the battery and the lack of an SD card.
My view is that my samsung already has a similar battery and my total data never exceeded even 25 GB. I have a fairly average 15GB worth of music and the rest is ebooks, documents and random other stuff.

Its innards are even now top notch and so for 23k is just too good to pass up. '
I think you will get away with nexus 5 as your frame of reference is note 1. Had you anything more recent n5 would not be that attractive even at the price. Better would be to stick to what you have and hold out for another year.


As you said phones ae stabilizing now and most phones will run pretty much every app you need without a fuss.
As a general rule this applies only to the high end. To a certain extent with midrange and less still at the entry level. Moto is trying to change that at the low end and i think chances are good moto will stir up the market with their future offerings like Nokia. But this is only for first time users. Course limiting their sales to just one ecommerce vendor in itself is limiting as there is no way to get the offered prices on the street.

Even at the high end there are exceptions. Take the nexus 4 which did not age well or the S4 variant we got in India had heating issues.


I am probably never ever going to cross the 30k barrier again.
So this automatically removes LG G3/G2 or the new HTC.
Depends how long you hold onto the device. If you can manage 3 years then 30k works out to 10k annual. What do you get for 10k now. A basic smartphone. Now if you hold onto it for a year or two its outdated. Then you spend another 10k for a little more improved one but you're still on a basic phone, relatively speaking. So 4 years @ 20k with basic experience. You get what you pay for.

When somebody wants a good phone you tell them to look at last years flagships which will still beat this years midrange. Depending on the company there's still 8 months left of updates. Usually 18 months with Sony or samsung. Longer if its a nexus.

A year later (which is two years since their launch) they may match the next crop of midranges. The only limitation is RAM. 1GB is iffy. 2GB is comfy. A flagship with 2GB RAM or more should be good for 2-4 years.

If you consider the past, it took roughly two (http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=4238&idPhone2=5862) years for a decent midrange to catch up. And four (http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=3115&idPhone2=6331) years for the low end.

Today, you can

- for 40k+ have a flagship for two years which becomes a midrange for the next two descending into entry level by the end of four years.

- for 20k have a midrange which will be matched (http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=4559&idPhone2=6331) by an entry level in two years.

- spend 10k every two years and remain at entry level.

The midrange is really a no mans land for the consumer but a money spinner for the vendor. Does not make sense for someone looking at it purely from a costs basis. As for two midranges you can have a flagship for two, a midrange for one and still be ahead than two midranges at the end of four years.

And on the low end people will stick to entry level and change every two years.

Meanwhile costs have risen since when you got a note for 32k, a note today hovers around 40k+, six months after launch. And entry levels that can compete with a midrange from two years back cost double what they did.

bolo121
12 Jun 14,, 20:15
I think you will get away with nexus 5 as your frame of reference is note 1. Had you anything more recent n5 would not be that attractive even at the price. Better would be to stick to what you have and hold out for another year.


As a general rule this applies only to the high end. To a certain extent with midrange and less still at the entry level. Moto is trying to change that at the low end and i think chances are good moto will stir up the market with their future offerings like Nokia. But this is only for first time users. Course limiting their sales to just one ecommerce vendor in itself is limiting as there is no way to get the offered prices on the street.

Even at the high end there are exceptions. Take the nexus 4 which did not age well or the S4 variant we got in India had heating issues.


Depends how long you hold onto the device. If you can manage 3 years then 30k works out to 10k annual. What do you get for 10k now. A basic smartphone. Now if you hold onto it for a year or two its outdated. Then you spend another 10k for a little more improved one but you're still on a basic phone, relatively speaking. So 4 years @ 20k with basic experience. You get what you pay for.

When somebody wants a good phone you tell them to look at last years flagships which will still beat this years midrange. Depending on the company there's still 8 months left of updates. Usually 18 months with Sony or samsung. Longer if its a nexus.

A year later (which is two years since their launch) they may match the next crop of midranges. The only limitation is RAM. 1GB is iffy. 2GB is comfy. A flagship with 2GB RAM or more should be good for 2-4 years.

If you consider the past, it took roughly two (http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=4238&idPhone2=5862) years for a decent midrange to catch up. And four (http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=3115&idPhone2=6331) years for the low end.

Today, you can

- for 40k+ have a flagship for two years which becomes a midrange for the next two descending into entry level by the end of four years.

- for 20k have a midrange which will be matched (http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=4559&idPhone2=6331) by an entry level in two years.

- spend 10k every two years and remain at entry level.

The midrange is really a no mans land for the consumer but a money spinner for the vendor. Does not make sense for someone looking at it purely from a costs basis. As for two midranges you can have a flagship for two, a midrange for one and still be ahead than two midranges at the end of four years.

And on the low end people will stick to entry level and change every two years.

Meanwhile costs have risen since when you got a note for 32k, a note today hovers around 40k+, six months after launch. And entry levels that can compete with a midrange from two years back cost double what they did.

Very cogently argued.
The midrange is no longer as unpromising as before, micromax, karbon and the like have been slowly getting better. Plus moto has totally changed the game with the Moto G.
It performs better than many 20k+ midrange phones.
For the WhatsApp, Viber, Facebook, email, occasional videos crowd, it will easily last 3 years.

My view is simple. At the power level of the Nexus 5 Galaxy S5, Note 3 G3 or One8 you very rarely notice much of a difference.
The nexus stands out by virtue of the fact that its nearly half the price with features that are nearly as good. Only the very cream of mobile games will make them huff and puff.
So I have a good opportunity to spend at midrange level and enjoy close to high end performance.

Double Edge
13 Jun 14,, 12:53
The midrange is no longer as unpromising as before, micromax, karbon and the like have been slowly getting better. Plus moto has totally changed the game with the Moto G.
It performs better than many 20k+ midrange phones.
For the WhatsApp, Viber, Facebook, email, occasional videos crowd, it will easily last 3 years.
The midrange especially the lower end of the midrange is increasingly facing competition from more capable entry level models. The moto g is a case in point. Very interested to see its successor.

Vendors do not have an incentive to make midranges catch up sooner with flagships as it will affect the high end segment which is already a very keenly contested (http://blog.gsmarena.com/samsung-galaxy-s5-gets-premium-perks-india-including-free-repair-pickup/) space. So midranges are facing the heat and have no where to go. In some ways a consolidation is necessary, there are just too many models which make no sense in the 15-30k bracket. A handful standout, the rest are largely forgotten, except to the buyer who solely looks at price ranges and is ignorant about shortcomings or alternatives. One who sets a hard limit on budget and consequently compromises future requirements as a result. Budget is a secondary requirement for me, if i cannot afford something today, i'll save up for when i can afford to buy.

As for micromax, karbon, these are best avoided until they actually get into the business of making their own phones (if ever) instead of sourcing from tier2/3 no-name chinese builders. Yeah micromax is #2 in terms of sales in India but isn't a brand i see recommended on forums, quite the opposite. Updates are non-existent and service is spotty, whatever OS it came with is the one it will die with. QA is an issue with branded phones at times and is much worse for rebrands.

However, Chinese companies that actually sell under their original name are good contenders, Oppo got into India and have some interesting offerings. Xiaomi is another but no presence in India yet. On paper they can match branded phones for 5-10k less and this is with tier 1 components. These two are Chinese cutting edge, a step ahead of the bigger more established ones like Huawei or Lenovo and now Panasonic is trying to enter the game. Gunning for the moto g space or a more capable entry level phone.

It's like the car industry from nearly a hundred years ago. Loads of companies at the outset and slowly end up getting bought by others. It's already happened. Moto's phone division is in the process of being acquired by Lenovo and Nokia got sold to MS. Ten years ago Nokia was the samsung of today. If in 2008, anyone said Symbian would be dead by 2012, nobody would believe it.


My view is simple. At the power level of the Nexus 5 Galaxy S5, Note 3 G3 or One8 you very rarely notice much of a difference.
The nexus stands out by virtue of the fact that its nearly half the price with features that are nearly as good. Only the very cream of mobile games will make them huff and puff.
So I have a good opportunity to spend at midrange level and enjoy close to high end performance.
You're getting a flagship at the cost of a midrange. You won't notice much difference in terms of performance. However performance here is a broad term. The nexus at launch sells for a good 10K less than others, so which corners were cut and do they matter.

How is the sound quality, how good is the camera, how about colour reproduction of the screen, (n5 actually does quite well but messes with gamma, others do well on gamma but mess up the colours, too vibrant), outdoors visibility. How power efficient are its components which gets into battery life. Then there is the aesthetic, design, how attractive or distinct does it look.

Even amongst the flagships you mentioned there are fortes one model has over others that are still significant depending on the buyer. Making an all rounder is a tricky process. We're getting there slowly though.

sated buddha
13 Jun 14,, 13:33
Tech guru DE, what would you suggest as an upgrade to this phone please.

Do remember my slab increments of 2.5K mantra ...... and suggest accordingly.

37138

P.S. To tide me over, I am thinkng of getting that bright green cover....

sated buddha
13 Jun 14,, 13:55
Just to give you some background on my cell phone ownership to date:

First phone

37139

Second phone

37140

Third phone

Can't remember. A really slim Nokia with a metal finish back, whose screen I had to change twice when it got wet on my bike rides.

Fourth phone

The one I posted above.

Hope that helps .....

Doktor
13 Jun 14,, 14:21
Please define really slim Nokia first :biggrin:

sated buddha
13 Jun 14,, 14:24
Man now its irritating me that I cannot remember this phone.

It had normal buttons (the type with three letters on one button). It had a longish 3/4 type screen. Not touch screen. Color. No camera. Had a chrome garnish around the edges. I think the back was black, not metal. It was a small phone (would always fall out of my shirt pocket). Narrow.

Doktor
13 Jun 14,, 14:36
6300?

37141

sated buddha
13 Jun 14,, 14:52
Yeah. Similar looking. But I don't recall the bottom silver look. It was predominantly black in front with the chrome garnish on the edge.

Doktor
13 Jun 14,, 15:06
37142

Or maybe it got some dirt on the aluminium :)

Double Edge
14 Jun 14,, 13:26
what would you suggest as an upgrade to this phone please.
Easy, for you there is just this (http://www.smartnamo.com/)

http://www.smartnamo.com/images/slide1.png

Smart Namo or Namo Saffron :biggrin:

sated buddha
14 Jun 14,, 13:27
37142

Or maybe it got some dirt on the aluminium :)

U da man Doktor! This is the one. :)

sated buddha
14 Jun 14,, 13:36
Why do you want to upgrade ?

I need to get off my lazyboi to get my reading glasses to read WAB while at home.

My thumb is too fat to type on the small letter buttons on the touch screen.

Without reading glasses, its even tougher. Either that or my arm is not long enough.

Changing the phone screen to landscape view helps for sms's but not WhatsApp (which does not shift to landscape mode). Also the portrait to landscape shift is very slow and needs major shifting/tilting to make it happen.

On WhatsApp, I cannot type text and put smiley in same sentence. I have to hit send for sentence, then put smiley into new one and hit send. The smiley thus loses intended impact.

Also whenever I put on Internet and open WhatsApp, the Chat button always shows cicrcle moving round and round. I have to go into a particular chat window and then type some inane thing like Yo and hit send to activate WhatsApp.

Then suddenly the circle stops going round and round and tons of new messages come into various chat windows.

My friends assure me this is not "normal" and point to my phone as if there is something decidedly foul smelling in the room .....

The alarm sound is very anemic. Even at full volume. I sell my horses and sleep (ghode bech kar sota hun). I want something loud.

My camera sucks. Even in daylight. Also I want a flash. Also I want my babies photos to keep scrolling on my screen. Right now there is only one, and the other option is getting my wallet out.

I cannot log into my Yahoo email. Only my Gmail. I would like to be able to read my emails on Yahoo as well.

I would also love to have a nice GPS navigation tool on my phone. One that does not need internet or connectivity would be great. My current one has something called Google Routes. Its crap.


What are you looking for.

All of the above.


No can do, this lowest cost mentality is out the window. Get your requirements then build your budget to meet it.

If you are going to go into flag masts and poles and stuff, then I agree. No can do. All bouncers for me.

You mean that short small laundry list is going to cost more than 2-2.5K? What about exchange of my current phone? Can add that in too and not count it in the budget ..... if it helps.

P.S. It has to be only Nokia please.

sated buddha
14 Jun 14,, 14:08
DE please notice how even a technophobe when he puts his mind to it can actually expand on a technical wishlist.

Please see my post now. Have added key components to it.

I thought WAB was to help fellow WABbers. :confused:

Double Edge
14 Jun 14,, 14:41
Right, now we're getting to the crux of it.


I need to get off my lazyboi to get my reading glasses to read WAB while at home.

My thumb is too fat to type on the small letter buttons on the touch screen.

Without reading glasses, its even tougher. Either that or my arm is not long enough.

Changing the phone screen to landscape view helps for sms's but not WhatsApp (which does not shift to landscape mode). Also the portrait to landscape shift is very slow and needs major shifting/tilting to make it happen.

On WhatsApp, I cannot type text and put smiley in same sentence. I have to hit send for sentence, then put smiley into new one and hit send. The smiley thus loses intended impact.
Screen size.

A 3 inch screen on Asha has to be a pain to read anything other than the shortest of messages. So borrow your daughters shiny new 520 which has a 4 inch screen. Little better but is it good enough. Getting the right screen size for oneself on these devices is tricky. It's a challenge to get the ergonomics right. There are big screens that interfere with portability and smaller more portable devices that mess with legibility.

Where is the middle ground here ? 4.7 - 5.5 inches personally but others will dispute it. As you can read at arms length, no need to hold the screen one foot away from your face. Gets tiring after a bit.

Then people ask about one handed operations, can your thumb cover enough of the screen for one handed operations. If its under 5 inches, yes, closer to 5 inches it gets harder. You may get used to a bigger screen or not. Depends how important reading the screen is over portability. How much weight would you assign to either parameter.

You mentioned your thumb was too fat, of course it is, we're used to mouse pointers with pinpoint accuracy and are now reduced to fingers to poke with. A stylus can help or anything portable enough to fool the touchscreen into registering a contact. Something like this (http://www.instructables.com/id/Cheap-pocket-sized-iPhoneiPod-Touch-stylus/).

So you need to go to the shop and play with different sized devices and see how it feels in your hand to find what the Cinderella size range is for you. Not too small or big but just right.




Also whenever I put on Internet and open WhatsApp, the Chat button always shows cicrcle moving round and round. I have to go into a particular chat window and then type some inane thing like Yo and hit send to activate WhatsApp.

Then suddenly the circle stops going round and round and tons of new messages come into various chat windows.

My friends assure me this is not "normal" and point to my phone as if there is something decidedly foul smelling in the room .....
Many possibilities here, app is buggy, your phone is so crippled it struggles to run even basic apps (more likely). Your internet connection is slow.


The alarm sound is very anemic. Even at full volume. I sell my horses and sleep (ghode bech kar sota hun). I want something loud.
For this you can up the gain on the ringtone. Requires an audio editing app to do it. Won't sound as nice but will be more loud.


My camera sucks. Even in daylight. Also I want a flash. Also I want my babies photos to keep scrolling on my screen. Right now there is only one, and the other option is getting my wallet out.
And how does the 520 fare here ?


I cannot log into my Yahoo email. Only my Gmail. I would like to be able to read my emails on Yahoo as well.

I would also love to have a nice GPS navigation tool on my phone. My current one has something called Google Routes. Its crap.
That's known as A-GPS (assisted) or requires a cell connection to triangulate your position. How do you find the 520, it has a real GPS in it that makes use of satellites (a first for phones at its price range when it came out), no need for a cell connection. Should come in mighty useful for a biker like you out in the country out of range of any cell tower.



You mean that short small laundry list is going to cost more than 2-2.5K? What about exchange of my current phone? Can add that in too and not count it in the budget ..... if it helps.

P.S. It has to be only Nokia please.
Depends on whether you find 520/525 adequate or not. Anything is an improvement from an Asha.

sated buddha
14 Jun 14,, 14:53
Actually the entire process of discussing it here and buying my daughter her phone made me get frisky and want a new one for myself. :red:

But not a 520. Then she'll feel cheated. Let her enjoy her phone for a bit. Its her new toy. Now she got her new number (the old one and SIM had got blocked) and internet and now has tons of XBox games so she's a very happy puppy.

P.S. I agree on the legibility vs portability thing. A phone should look like a phone. Not as if one is holding a friggin IPad to one's ear. That's just looks ludicrous.

bolo121
14 Jun 14,, 15:23
SB you are quite a well off guy I gather.
Then why skimp, go straight for Moto X.
Its the current sweet spot in the midrange.

sated buddha
14 Jun 14,, 15:35
SB you are quite a well off guy I gather.
Then why skimp, go straight for Moto X.
Its the current sweet spot in the midrange.

I'm an average middle class guy like any of us here man.

I kind of like Nokias. Like I like Bata shoes and Lifebuoy soap. And I do not like how the Moto series look.

Double Edge
15 Jun 14,, 02:08
Actually the entire process of discussing it here and buying my daughter her phone made me get frisky and want a new one for myself. :red:
Not surprised. You realised that more is possible. It won't end, a year from now you'll be looking to upgrade again as you get more confident.


But not a 520. Then she'll feel cheated. Let her enjoy her phone for a bit. Its her new toy.
You did not answer any of the questions i asked. Does the 520 actually meet your requirements or not.

I do get the psychology of her feeling cheated if you get one too. Isn't imitation the most sincere form of flattery ?

Way i see it is you get free support and its easier to maintain more of the same than different units. If anything if you get a better one than her then she might feel cheated.


please notice how even a technophobe when he puts his mind to it can actually expand on a technical wishlist
Anyone that can operate, handle and maintain a bike is no technophobe.


I kind of like Nokias. Like I like Bata shoes and Lifebuoy soap. And I do not like how the Moto series look.
hah, i like bata too, based in Canada nowadays. I bough a pair of sandals liked them so much then bought 2 more of the same straight away. Never done that before.

There are many people who like Nokias, they look at MS a bit warily as MS has a tendency of killing off companies whenever they are acquired. Does not mean it will happen but Nokia isn't going to be the same any more.

Doktor
15 Jun 14,, 07:32
Not surprised. You realised that more is possible. It won't end, a year from now you'll be looking to upgrade again as you get more confident.
Several upgrades later he will wake up and say "Meh" and keep the phone for another year or two.


Way i see it is you get free support and its easier to maintain more of the same than different units. If anything if you get a better one than her then she might feel cheated.
My thoughts exactly, besides if her phone is OK for him, he can talk to her.


Anyone that can operate, handle and maintain a bike is no technophobe.
He meant gadgetphobe :Dancing-Banana:


There are many people who like Nokias, they look at MS a bit warily as MS has a tendency of killing off companies whenever they are acquired. Does not mean it will happen but Nokia isn't going to be the same any more.
MS is killing Nokia. Unless something changed in the past two months.

Double Edge
15 Jul 14,, 12:13
To hell with Lumia 525. Get her the Moto E (⌐■_■).
Will be launched tomorrow in India and will be initially available through Flipkart @Rs.7000. Specs: Android 4.4 and 5MP Camera.
There's a new player in town, goes by the name Asus and hosts an intel cpu.

The zen fone 4 sells for Rs.6k and competes head on with the moto e. In terms of gameplay it handles heavier games than the moto e. Also comes with 8 Gb internal storage insted of the 4GB of the moto e.

And then ther eis the zen fone 5 which will take on the moto g.

Only 2 months later, see how the picture changes.