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View Full Version : What compels a person to get "4 wheel drive"?



Tamara
30 Jan 14,, 12:06
Been there, done that (been stuck), don't want to be there again?

Perhaps.

As I read the "wake up call" articles about Atlanta and Birmingham, there is a consistent note about so many of trapped not having 4 wheel drive cars..................not that 4 wheel drive alone would have work there.

But I think it takes more than just being stuck. For one thing, having the cash certainly helps. But more than that, one needs to reach a point in their life when it falls into place.

In college, for bonfire, I spent enough time slipping and sliding and slinging on logging roads in a little Opel, but I never really got stuck. Rather got good, well I thought so, of knowing which way to turn the wheel and to be able to keep going. Now, in high school, my car was the family's Volarie station wagon and once I went from an ice free road to an ice covered road at 55 or so.....and ended up in a ditch. A rancher with a pick up truck got me out.

So what was the first car I bought? A Cutlass. I was young and wanted a sports car, sportish car, and wasn't thinking 4 wheel then. Then the Cutlass got totaled, I went with a Corsica for a decade, and when it came time to change that, my mindset had shifted to a SUV.

I had had enough adventures where I realized I needed an SUV, been stuck behind flooded parking lots, and the 4 wheel as in all wheel for the Subaru fell in place. Then a year or two ago, I needed a pickup truck, and the 4 wheel drive fell in place.

At this point in my life, being in Texas, not having some kind of 4 wheel drive is not a thing for me.

But I think it is because of live and learn situations that we get such things. I store my spare kitty litter sacks in the car because they can be used as a source of emergency traction. Eventually, I "plan" to get winches put on both (which may work in ice situations if you can attach them to something) but that's a plan that has come back on the table not for the pulling out of a ditch but maybe to use for barn raising.

Maybe....................and I really dread the day when I have to change a tire on my F-250 monster.

Officer of Engineers
30 Jan 14,, 12:59
Posi-track is more important than 4WD. 4WD is just a gas burner as far as I'm concerned.

Doktor
30 Jan 14,, 13:13
Erm... without good tires all those fancy gadget are wort nothing.

Bigfella
30 Jan 14,, 13:19
In Australia you an usually assume that someone buying a 4WD won't actually drive it over territory that really needs one more often than once every few years. I grew up in a rural area where 4WDs were rare, even on farms. It was only when I moved to a big city that I saw them everywhere.

I always thought it somehow appropriate that Nissan's 4WD 'Pajero' translates in some Spanish speaking countries as 'wanker'. ;)

Tamara
30 Jan 14,, 13:48
In Australia you an usually assume that someone buying a 4WD won't actually drive it over territory that really needs one more often than once every few years. I grew up in a rural area where 4WDs were rare, even on farms. It was only when I moved to a big city that I saw them everywhere.

I always thought it somehow appropriate that Nissan's 4WD 'Pajero' translates in some Spanish speaking countries as 'wanker'. ;)

Comme ce, comme ca.

Last year at festival, they had a new parking lot filled with wood chips and a sign that said "4 wheel drive only". The guide took one look at my Forester and waved me right on in. So while I may not search out areas for my Forester to use its AWD, I do run into situations from time to time.

So far, though, I haven't used the 4WD on the truck or, for that matter, probably not much of its full lift capability. But I do operate in enough off road situations so I'm sure there will come a time when it is needed.

Albany Rifles
30 Jan 14,, 14:02
4WD lets you get stuck in deeper snow.

Doktor
30 Jan 14,, 14:11
Mitsubishi.

From what i understand Pajero means small willie ;)

tuna
30 Jan 14,, 14:36
I'm cheap as they come. My last car was a 93 Camry that I bought for $500 and ran for 6 years. Got rid of it when the tranny went prior to a deployment (kicking myself for it now).

Came back from the deployment with some cash on hand, and put a down payment on Dodge 1500 quad cab, with 4 x 4.

What a mistake. Haven't needed the 4WD for anything that my Camry wouldn't have handled better. Repairs up the wazoo and the thing still won't pass inspection. Gonna dump it soon, and when I come back from my next deployment, I was going to get a Subaru for the AWD, then I thought, why? I'm leaning toward a Honday Odyssey like my wife has.

Not as cool as the Ram by any means, but I think the Subaru and Honda beat the Ram in reliablity and practicality all week long.

Tamara
30 Jan 14,, 14:58
I'm cheap as they come. My last car was a 93 Camry that I bought for $500 and ran for 6 years. Got rid of it when the tranny went prior to a deployment (kicking myself for it now).

Came back from the deployment with some cash on hand, and put a down payment on Dodge 1500 quad cab, with 4 x 4.

What a mistake. Haven't needed the 4WD for anything that my Camry wouldn't have handled better. Repairs up the wazoo and the thing still won't pass inspection. Gonna dump it soon, and when I come back from my next deployment, I was going to get a Subaru for the AWD, then I thought, why? I'm leaning toward a Honday Odyssey like my wife has.

Not as cool as the Ram by any means, but I think the Subaru and Honda beat the Ram in reliablity and practicality all week long.

I wouldn't argue that much. I use the Forester for most things.....except for the things it can't do, then I use the -250.

Stitch
30 Jan 14,, 17:07
4WD lets you get stuck in deeper snow.

Exactly.

I was always taught "2WD in, 4WD out"; if you use 4WD to go in, you usually go too far. If you're at the point where you NEED 4WD, you've probably gone too far already.

Officer of Engineers
30 Jan 14,, 17:36
In Australia you an usually assume that someone buying a 4WD won't actually drive it over territory that really needs one more often than once every few years. I grew up in a rural area where 4WDs were rare, even on farms. It was only when I moved to a big city that I saw them everywhere.Same here. I buy my trucks off of farmers who went for newer models. None of them are 4WD but all have posi-track.

YellowFever
30 Jan 14,, 17:53
I need my 4WD to run away from deranged people with Hockey sticks. :mad:

Dreadnought
30 Jan 14,, 18:02
Living where it snows I would never have a two wheel drive truck again.

My new one (GMC) is not only 4wd but also has a true posi rear at all times. Ergo, both spin together not intermittenly like many claim to have posi rears or limited slip. Another reason why I bought the truck I have.

My old truck Chevy (4x4) monster

4wd is also great for getting out of a jam if you drop a drive shaft and need to get out of where you are quickly. All you have to do is remove the drive shaft that has slipped out of the differential, throw it in the back, lock up in four drive and drive away on the front differential. Yes, you will lose some fluid but better then to be stuck someplace you really dont want to be. Keep an eye on the fluid until you get where your going.

Been there, done that and will NEVER own another truck that is not 4wd.;)

Funny thing was the idiots standing on the street corner laughing at this problem figuring my truck was going to be free parts until i returned with a tow truck were not laughing when I pulled away no more then five minutes later under its own power.

Damaged yes, readily repairable, but saved myself the tow truck bill and my truck being ransacked while I was seeking a tow truck to get home.

I left them a puddle of transfer case fluid as a consellation prize.:biggrin:

Bought a new GMC 4x4 and never looked back.

SteveDaPirate
30 Jan 14,, 21:12
In my experience the most important thing when driving in snow and ice is to have a vehicle that has weight over the drive wheels. This can be a car with the engine over the drive wheels, or a truck with plenty of sand bags in the back. Bring along some kitty litter and a good dirt shovel that is strong enough to cut through snow melt that has refrozen and you should be good to go.

Soapbox time
If you are going up a hill, get a running start and do not stop until you are at the top. If you try to take that sharp turn doing 20 mph the way you normally do, you are going to have a bad time. Please don't be the guy that assumes that since his 4x4 can accelerate better from a stop than the folks on either side of him, he must be able to stop faster as well. You look pretty stupid when your $50,000 beast goes sliding through an intersection and down an embankment because you assumed your 4 wheel drive gives you extra braking power on ice. :slap:

zraver
30 Jan 14,, 22:16
I drive a 4x4. A 1999 Chevy Suburban K1500 with a 6" lift on Khumo Road Venture AT. I also carry a 12" tow chain, 25' recovery strap rated at 30,000lbs, a tow rope, chain saw, food, water, first responder bag, utility shut off tool, handy rescue tool, automotive tools, jacks, 2x 5gl fuel cans, 100w siren, amber strobes (for storm chasing) red strobe light bar (for emergency response), CB radio, triple trunked digital scanner, Public safety radio (when I am in the truck), dash cam, radar detector, change of clothes, wet weather gear, 2x tent, 72" pinch bar, 48" super heavy duty bolt cutters, jumper cables,fire extinguisher, air pump, blankets, mobile weather station, portable halogen spot light, android phone, Verizon jet pack mobile wireless router, 2x petzel rescue helmets, multiple pair of gloves including extrication gloves, snow chains, 4ton come alone, 48" rescue jack, c-collars, 40lbs of kitty litter and a car seat.... Plus I am pretty sure I am adding a 12,000lb winch and remote rooftop light as part of my tax refund Christmas in March.

When bad weather hits I am often out in it (or I transfer my recovery and responder gear to the Rescue Squads suburban) rescuing people. 4WD sittng modestly high on good tires with the right gear handled by someone who knows how to drive in the slick stuff can make all the difference in the world.

Steve, you' be surprised how many times I've been to an accident scene on icy roads where the curve sloped to the inside and people went TOO slow and slid down the incline and into the ditch. Its not just too fast, but too slow that will bite people.

SteveDaPirate
30 Jan 14,, 22:40
Steve, you' be surprised how many times I've been to an accident scene on icy roads where the curve sloped to the inside and people went TOO slow and slid down the incline and into the ditch. Its not just too fast, but too slow that will bite people.

I agree entirely, it drives me nuts when someone in front of me decides to try to make it up a steep incline going 5 mph in icy conditions. I will wait at the bottom of the hill until they get stuck, then get a running start so I have enough momentum to make it to the top.

Tamara
30 Jan 14,, 22:45
Reminds me of the other day.

I had been wondering where all my jeans were. There were some buried in a laundry bag or at the bottom of the bin, but it seemed like I didn't have all the ones I thought I did. Well, I was getting ready to go to the university and decided that maybe taking my range bag wasn't such a great idea but didn't have time to go back into the home. Hauled it out of the back of the Forester, popped the alarms on the -250 and.........

............I remembered that I by habit carry a spare set of boots in my cars but I had forgotten that I had extended that habit to clothes now. There they were, at least one pair.

As things go, I have a rat's nest of "emergency" supplies in either car. The Forester has it's bail out bag with food, shovel, jumpers, fire starting stuff, NATO stove, fuel, CB handheld. Right now, it also has a full 6 gal jerry can of water that went in on the weekend because I was packing to go up to the Dallas (but cancelled but didn't unload that). There are always smaller bottles of water, the kitty litter bags, a wooly pully and hat. Since I am lazy, often when I come back from the grocery, only the cold stuff goes into the house immediately but the other food is often in the car for quite a while. Maybe eating canned kitten food isn't the best, but it is a pop top and some kind of food. The Forester has a CB radio.

The -250 not yet on the radio....need to find a place to mount it. But it has a bow saw, rope, tarps, straps and multiple water bottles at least.

Between the two, there is the biggest D cell mag light I could buy. I think the truck's "personal" one was snatched when someone tried to steal the truck back in August. Leather gloves in both cars but that is more for working on the ranch. Truck right now has the geography type tape measure. You know, for measuring feet across land.

But still, so many things to get and not all of it for life or death emergencies. I have been wanting to get bolt cutters but more for the situation of finding out that someone has put their chain to the gates of my land. When I travel, I take a sleeping bag with me. GPS (a gift) for the truck still waits to be installed.

Of course, one of the issues is how much do you always keep in the truck vs showing what you have to be stolen and then again, how long does it take to load it up, unload it. These are constant questions.

Got to go, more later.

Stitch
30 Jan 14,, 23:27
I need my 4WD to run away from deranged people with Hockey sticks. :mad:

They wouldn't happen to be Canadian, would they?

Doktor
30 Jan 14,, 23:33
They wouldn't happen to be Canadian, would they?

Are you saying that SWSNBN is chasing Yeller with a hockey stick? I knew he was in Vegas. Again.

YellowFever
30 Jan 14,, 23:50
Oh, Thankyou....

....the two jokers that brought me to the colonel's attention in the other thread is going to do the same here.

I was being perfectly serious in the other thread and was in the process of engaging the admin and you two jokers ruined it for me. :mad:

Doktor
30 Jan 14,, 23:56
I was being perfectly serious
:eek:


was in the process engaging the admin and you two jokers ruined it for me. :mad:
Aren't you still married?

You can thank us later. Again.

tuna
31 Jan 14,, 01:11
Just thought I'd mention my favorite "get outta snow" tool - a couple roofing shingles. They lay flat in a trunk or even work as a mat for car. Shove them under the tires and away you go.

Doktor
31 Jan 14,, 01:26
Just thought I'd mention my favorite "get outta snow" tool - a couple roofing shingles. They lay flat in a trunk or even work as a mat for car. Shove them under the tires and away you go.

Works like a charm. Whatever you might have that is waterproof and rigid would do it.

bonehead
31 Jan 14,, 02:10
A solid 4WD with good tires will always be in my stable. In one weekend I could be in sand, snow/ice and mud. BTW when your in deep muddy ruts, anything less than 4WD and all you can do is follow the ruts. Without power to the front your not getting out. 4WD also saves your rig when on steep dicy trails as you can putter to the top. in 2 wheel you have to punch it and beat the hell out of the rig….been there done that. Then there are times when dragging the travel trailer through the mountain passes in the winter. 4WD is golden for those times. Lastly, greasy boat ramps. All the posi and great tires are for nothing when it is only the front tires on tractionable ground. Lastly there is the comfort factor, When going skiing drivers usually have an option….. get out in the slush and chain up or flick a switch to 4WD and keep driving.


Other than that 4WD is a waste of money. I see tons of people buying fancy 4WD rigs …and rarely if ever leave the pavement.

Stitch
31 Jan 14,, 02:10
Works like a charm. Whatever you might have that is waterproof and rigid would do it.

Wow. Somebody could take that the wrong way, ya know . . . . . like Yeller.

zraver
31 Jan 14,, 02:54
Works like a charm. Whatever you might have that is waterproof and rigid would do it.

I carry 40lb bags of kitty litter. Throw a couple of handfuls across ice and its like putting spikes on the shoes of everyone present. A few more handful and you can move a FWD sedan from the bottom of an icey incline to the top of the incline where it can put its tire on grass and dirt to get traction and get home. Plus it helps with minor spills and is 100% biodegradable

Bonehead,

You were spot, except being a waste of money and the comment about chains. 4WD for most people is like a fire extinguisher. You hope you never need it. But if you need it, but ruined it with street tires.... I've had to pull several out of ditches. My favorite was the Ram Hemi 4x4 on racing drag radial tires... He couldn't get out of a level parking lot I towed him to.

I carry chains. 4x4's with decent tires can get going a lot easier than 2x4's or 4x4's with bad tires. However they wont stop any better unless that are studded or have chains on. Chains limit your speed but let you stop on ice, even going down hill.

My .02. if you are buying an older 4x4 go Toyota or GM. The older Toyota's are simply rugged low cost 4x4's. While the Chevy/GM products probably have the G80 gov-lock rear end which is a god send in slick conditions. On snow and ice, Bear (my suburban) has three wheels with power. The G80 isn't as good as a true locker system for extreme off road work but for slick conditions its hard to beat. I think most of the newer 4x4's have options to have lockers installed from the factory or dealership. Old Wranglers are OK for off roading but are less than ideal on snow/ice. Older Ford, Jeeps and Dodge 4x4's are junky.

Albany Rifles
31 Jan 14,, 03:14
Oh, Thankyou....

....the two jokers that brought me to the colonel's attention in the other thread is going to do the same here.

I was being perfectly serious in the other thread and was in the process of engaging the admin and you two jokers ruined it for me. :mad:


So, who is this intended for?

YellowFever
31 Jan 14,, 04:26
So, who is this intended for?

Not you....please don't hurt me. :insane:

bonehead
31 Jan 14,, 04:34
I carry 40lb bags of kitty litter. Throw a couple of handfuls across ice and its like putting spikes on the shoes of everyone present. A few more handful and you can move a FWD sedan from the bottom of an icey incline to the top of the incline where it can put its tire on grass and dirt to get traction and get home. Plus it helps with minor spills and is 100% biodegradable

Bonehead,

You were spot, except being a waste of money and the comment about chains. 4WD for most people is like a fire extinguisher. You hope you never need it. But if you need it, but ruined it with street tires.... I've had to pull several out of ditches. My favorite was the Ram Hemi 4x4 on racing drag radial tires... He couldn't get out of a level parking lot I towed him to.

I carry chains. 4x4's with decent tires can get going a lot easier than 2x4's or 4x4's with bad tires. However they wont stop any better unless that are studded or have chains on. Chains limit your speed but let you stop on ice, even going down hill.

My .02. if you are buying an older 4x4 go Toyota or GM. The older Toyota's are simply rugged low cost 4x4's. While the Chevy/GM products probably have the G80 gov-lock rear end which is a god send in slick conditions. On snow and ice, Bear (my suburban) has three wheels with power. The G80 isn't as good as a true locker system for extreme off road work but for slick conditions its hard to beat. I think most of the newer 4x4's have options to have lockers installed from the factory or dealership. Old Wranglers are OK for off roading but are less than ideal on snow/ice. Older Ford, Jeeps and Dodge 4x4's are junky.



LOL the chains always make the trip so they are available when needed. Most cases the sheriff/state troopers wait at the bottom of the pass and allow you to go through depending on vehicle. A decent 4WD and good tires gets a nod. any less and you get to stop and put chains on. So for me 4wd saves time and I don't have to play in the slush installing chains if I don't want to. Honestly if you never take the rig off the pavement 4WD is a waste of money. I can't tell you how many people in the Portland area buy one for the 2 days of snow they get every year…then end up taking those days off as it really isn't worth it driving around with all the idiots on the snow.

I liked my 83 bronco. Huge gas tank and great pavement manners. Decent off the road too. Strong C6 and a 351W. Having two doors sucked as a family car and no head rests either. I still miss my 72 landcruiser FJ55. (My first) It was a tank off the pavement and I didn't care about getting it dirty or scratching it. The wife hated driving it on the road though as it wandered aimlessly. Nothing a power steering upgrade couldn't fix, but the rig was rode long and hard before I got it and would have needed a total rebuild. Now I have the best of both worlds with my 4runner. Don't want to get it too dirty though. Too damned expensive to replace but it goes wherever I want to take it hauls whatever I attach to it, and I have yet to even have to winch it anywhere.(which is great cause all I have now are a couple of come alongs, chain and rope) No more Warn on the front like the first two. So far so good, I steer and it goes.

zraver
31 Jan 14,, 04:53
LOL the chains always make the trip so they are available when needed. Most cases the sheriff/state troopers wait at the bottom of the pass and allow you to go through depending on vehicle. A decent 4WD and good tires gets a nod. any less and you get to stop and put chains on. So for me 4wd saves time and I don't have to play in the slush installing chains if I don't want to. Honestly if you never take the rig off the pavement 4WD is a waste of money. I can't tell you how many people in the Portland area buy one for the 2 days of snow they get every year…then end up taking those days off as it really isn't worth it driving around with all the idiots on the snow.

I liked my 83 bronco. Huge gas tank and great pavement manners. Decent off the road too. Strong C6 and a 351W. Having two doors sucked as a family car and no head rests either. I still miss my 72 landcruiser FJ55. (My first) It was a tank off the pavement and I didn't care about getting it dirty or scratching it. The wife hated driving it on the road though as it wandered aimlessly. Nothing a power steering upgrade couldn't fix, but the rig was rode long and hard before I got it and would have needed a total rebuild. Now I have the best of both worlds with my 4runner. Don't want to get it too dirty though. Too damned expensive to replace but it goes wherever I want to take it hauls whatever I attach to it, and I have yet to even have to winch it anywhere.(which is great cause all I have now are a couple of come alongs, chain and rope) No more Warn on the front like the first two. So far so good, I steer and it goes.

Does your fourrunner have a locker? I know some of the new Tacoma's have an under 5mph button that will lock up the back axel.

I want a winch so bad. But then again Becuase of what I do, my 4WD actually gets used.

Oh, chains also help in the mud.

Deltacamelately
31 Jan 14,, 06:00
Same here. I find 4WD mostly in cities. Never found one in the upcountry locations where they would probably be needed.

Officer of Engineers
31 Jan 14,, 06:04
Same here. I find 4WD mostly in cities. Never found one in the upcountry locations where they would probably be needed.Because most of us are smart enough to buy tractors.

Tamara
31 Jan 14,, 08:34
..........Other than that 4WD is a waste of money. I see tons of people buying fancy 4WD rigs …and rarely if ever leave the pavement.

Well, mine at least has that, not much, but it has at least been on the ranch. Granted, so has the Forester but I feel more comfortable driving the truck into the ranch than the Forester.

But there is something else to it as well. As I go to gather materials, they may be out on someone's big ranch and for that, I'd rather have the truck.

Of course, there can be problems. The time I tripped on the ranch, twisted a leg, and scared myself so much that I just wanted to get back in the car and get out of there.....if I had to haul myself up into the truck, I might have had a problem that day. (running boards are in the future and for now, I keep a velcro splint and "quarterstaff" in the truck)

Otherwise, is there transformation into a Redneck Woman on the horizon? One of the sets of leather work gloves I have is.......................in the brisket kitchen, being used as oven mitts.

bonehead
31 Jan 14,, 08:58
Does your fourrunner have a locker? I know some of the new Tacoma's have an under 5mph button that will lock up the back axel.

I want a winch so bad. But then again Becuase of what I do, my 4WD actually gets used.

Oh, chains also help in the mud.

Yep. I've chained up a few times yarding my wood trailer out of the muddy trails. I can lock the differential 50% up and 50%back. It also has a granny switch that when engaged keeps you from going down a steep hill too quickly. It makes a lot of scary noises but it works. Locking axels were an option I chose not to pay for. BTW I also have to disengage the traction control if I want to have any fun.

I hear you loud and clear on the winch. I know I can get unstuck with what I have but it will take a lot longer and I am going to have to earn my freedom again. Unspooling the cable to an anchor and pushing a button does have its appeal. On the flip side when I do get stuck I get to practice all the rope work and mechanical advantage I learned from mountain rescue.

bonehead
31 Jan 14,, 09:04
Well, mine at least has that, not much, but it has at least been on the ranch. Granted, so has the Forester but I feel more comfortable driving the truck into the ranch than the Forester.

But there is something else to it as well. As I go to gather materials, they may be out on someone's big ranch and for that, I'd rather have the truck.

Of course, there can be problems. The time I tripped on the ranch, twisted a leg, and scared myself so much that I just wanted to get back in the car and get out of there.....if I had to haul myself up into the truck, I might have had a problem that day. (running boards are in the future and for now, I keep a velcro splint and "quarterstaff" in the truck)

Otherwise, is there transformation into a Redneck Woman on the horizon? One of the sets of leather work gloves I have is.......................in the brisket kitchen, being used as oven mitts.

You are nowhere near the people I talked about. They have no ranch, live in the middle of the city, and the only time the bed gets used is………………… Out in a ranch a PU is invaluable and getting stuck can be a life or death experience.

sated buddha
31 Jan 14,, 10:21
Since a lot of you seem to be experts on driving on ice (bonehead, zraver, etc.) wanted to ask you if you maybe had any idea on what the best way was to ride a motorcycle on ice? I am talking about normal road tyres of course - not those ones with spikes used in oval track ice racing. Reason I'm asking is that I ride a lot in the mountains, even in winter, and black ice is always a danger that can and does catch out most bikers and drivers as well. Especially in the shady parts of winding mountain roads.

Dreadnought
31 Jan 14,, 15:53
Since a lot of you seem to be experts on driving on ice (bonehead, zraver, etc.) wanted to ask you if you maybe had any idea on what the best way was to ride a motorcycle on ice? I am talking about normal road tyres of course - not those ones with spikes used in oval track ice racing. Reason I'm asking is that I ride a lot in the mountains, even in winter, and black ice is always a danger that can and does catch out most bikers and drivers as well. Especially in the shady parts of winding mountain roads.

In the 1970's the Winter Olympics used to feature motorcycles on ice with the big spiked tires on a large oval track. Always fun to watch. This was back before now a days "winter sports" were not even considered a sport.:biggrin:

From one motorcycler to another, stay off the ice unless you have a true dirt bike and since you are riding on ice, expect to lay it down. Dont ride an expensive bike on ice.;)

Officer of Engineers
31 Jan 14,, 16:12
Since a lot of you seem to be experts on driving on ice (bonehead, zraver, etc.) wanted to ask you if you maybe had any idea on what the best way was to ride a motorcycle on ice? I am talking about normal road tyres of course - not those ones with spikes used in oval track ice racing. Reason I'm asking is that I ride a lot in the mountains, even in winter, and black ice is always a danger that can and does catch out most bikers and drivers as well. Especially in the shady parts of winding mountain roads.http://www.northernhealth.ca/portals/0/IP%20Images/Snowmobile.JPG

sated buddha
31 Jan 14,, 17:32
In the 1970's the Winter Olympics used to feature motorcycles on ice with the big spiked tires on a large oval track. Always fun to watch. This was back before now a days "winter sports" were not even considered a sport.:biggrin:

From one motorcycler to another, stay off the ice unless you have a true dirt bike and since you are riding on ice, expect to lay it down. Dont ride an expensive bike on ice.;)

Already laid it down more than once buddy. :) The good thing about going down on ice (usually) is that the bike just slides smoothly without snagging and flipping. So more often than not there is little damage (not even scrapes). But its a hell of a way to start a fresh riding day man. You very quickly learn to be mortally terrified of darker wetter looking tarmac. Because its not wet. Its ice. So scarred am I mentally that back on lowlands, even in summer, if I come on a wet patch, I just go into "ice mode" - i.e. quickly do your downshifts and braking, then get off the brakes, keep bike ramrod straight, and without touching either throttle or brake, just glide past, both legs ready to kick away.

P.S. Colonel is that you on the snowmobile?

Dreadnought
31 Jan 14,, 18:06
Already laid it down more than once buddy. :) The good thing about going down on ice (usually) is that the bike just slides smoothly without snagging and flipping. So more often than not there is little damage (not even scrapes). But its a hell of a way to start a fresh riding day man. You very quickly learn to be mortally terrified of darker wetter looking tarmac. Because its not wet. Its ice. So scarred am I mentally that back on lowlands, even in summer, if I come on a wet patch, I just go into "ice mode" - i.e. quickly do your downshifts and braking, then get off the brakes, keep bike ramrod straight, and without touching either throttle or brake, just glide past, both legs ready to kick away.

P.S. Colonel is that you on the snowmobile?

If you have a true dirt bike and open ground never be afraid to trek across open land just use good judgement.

omon
31 Jan 14,, 18:30
lol, that is true, parking lot of my building has about 2000cars, most of them suv. and 99% will never see off road. but people like them, my parents have honda pilot now, they used to have rx350.
in suv you sit a higher you see road farther, and if someone t- bones me, i'd rather to be in a high suv, than in a low sedan or coupe. don't care what safety ratings say, i've seen plenty of crashes suv\car, cars almost never win.

sated buddha
31 Jan 14,, 18:32
If you have a true dirt bike and open ground never be afraid to trek across open land just use good judgement.

No we don't have proper dirt bikes yet here (just one, but its a small motor). Mostly standards and naked, and some faired sports tourer types. Road tyres, no knobbies. And where I am talking about, we welcome slush and broken tarmac because it means you at least will not skid. There is sheer rock face on one side, and a sheer fall of hundreds/thousands of feet on the other. No open land most times, til l you hit a valley or a high pass or plateau.

This is at a place in Himachal called Narkanda, notorious for bad black ice.

35337

bonehead
31 Jan 14,, 23:46
I am not suicidal so no motorcycles in the snow and ice for me. Just getting there isn't enough as you also have to be able to avoid the ones who are out of control and barreling down at you. If push came to shove I would opt for a Can Am Spyder Roadster….3 wheels.

zraver
01 Feb 14,, 07:01
Since a lot of you seem to be experts on driving on ice (bonehead, zraver, etc.) wanted to ask you if you maybe had any idea on what the best way was to ride a motorcycle on ice? I am talking about normal road tyres of course - not those ones with spikes used in oval track ice racing. Reason I'm asking is that I ride a lot in the mountains, even in winter, and black ice is always a danger that can and does catch out most bikers and drivers as well. Especially in the shady parts of winding mountain roads.

The best way is DON'T. If you're lucky you'll low side only, if you high side....

Officer of Engineers
01 Feb 14,, 07:07
P.S. Colonel is that you on the snowmobile?No, ain't me. This is my snow mobiling now

http://dochammill.com/wp-content/uploads/blogger/-xiK70CYV_yE/UN5x8JmpB4I/AAAAAAAAAQk/ipWmVh2HZlA/s1600/DSC06747.JPG

No, that's not me either.

bolo121
01 Feb 14,, 07:11
No we don't have proper dirt bikes yet here (just one, but its a small motor). Mostly standards and naked, and some faired sports tourer types. Road tyres, no knobbies. And where I am talking about, we welcome slush and broken tarmac because it means you at least will not skid. There is sheer rock face on one side, and a sheer fall of hundreds/thousands of feet on the other. No open land most times, til l you hit a valley or a high pass or plateau.

This is at a place in Himachal called Narkanda, notorious for bad black ice.

35337

Man you are crazy. Driving bikes in India is already nerve shredding, add himachal weather and its only a matter of time till your luck runs out.

Officer of Engineers
01 Feb 14,, 07:13
Man you are crazy. Driving bikes in India is already nerve shredding, add himachal weather and its only a matter of time till your luck runs out.Married ... With Children!

His luck already ran out.

sated buddha
01 Feb 14,, 07:21
Man you are crazy. Driving bikes in India is already nerve shredding, add himachal weather and its only a matter of time till your luck runs out.


Married ... With Children!

His luck already ran out.

As Johnny Blaze says in Ghost Rider, (before he jumps his bike over a gazillion rotor whirring helicopters), "You can't live in fear."

The mountains are the chicken soup for my soul. My wife knows this, and has seen how cranky I get if I do not get to be in them with my bike at least once (hopefully twice, but that is really rare) a year.

zraver
01 Feb 14,, 08:14
Sated, just remember most bikers only highside once. Riding mountains in winter on a bike is asking for it.

Tamara
01 Feb 14,, 09:15
You are nowhere near the people I talked about. They have no ranch, live in the middle of the city, and the only time the bed gets used is………………… Out in a ranch a PU is invaluable and getting stuck can be a life or death experience.

I have to wonder what my parents would say about my pick if they were alive........probably the same thing you are saying since I bought the ranch (no puns intended) with my inheritance.

Dad always had comments that 4 wheel drive was a waste on the road. Back when I was inbetween cars, I think right before the Forester but it could have been before the Corsica, I talked about getting a pickup and the family discouraged me for a whole bunch of reasons. Different to drive, no space to lock down things, where would you carry your cat, things like that.

Of course, with parents, once you have something like that, the tune changes. Ie, "Hey, Tam, your mom wants to clean out the attic this weekend. Why don't you come up with your truck, haul stuff away for us, and we'll take you out to dinner, afterwards."

sated buddha
01 Feb 14,, 11:26
I have a consultant who works for us who is from Finland. Now we know those guys are probably the kings of driving in snow/ice and their record in the WRC proves it. Not to mention their mastery in F1 as well, though its obviously apples and oranges. Well this guy told me something interesting about driving in snow/ice in winter. Normally most guys here shod their vehicles with expensive after market tyres that are wider than the stock ones, in the assumption that even though it would guzzle a little more and maybe cause extra drag, it would aid grip and handling. Our Finnish man says they do the opposite. Come winter, (basically there most of the year its not much different), they put on THINNER tyres on to their cars and SUVs which digs in better and aids grip and traction. And from what he says, we are talking realy thin. As in 2+ tyre sizes down (limited of course by the wheel dimensions).

bonehead
01 Feb 14,, 20:15
I have a consultant who works for us who is from Finland. Now we know those guys are probably the kings of driving in snow/ice and their record in the WRC proves it. Not to mention their mastery in F1 as well, though its obviously apples and oranges. Well this guy told me something interesting about driving in snow/ice in winter. Normally most guys here shod their vehicles with expensive after market tyres that are wider than the stock ones, in the assumption that even though it would guzzle a little more and maybe cause extra drag, it would aid grip and handling. Our Finnish man says they do the opposite. Come winter, (basically there most of the year its not much different), they put on THINNER tyres on to their cars and SUVs which digs in better and aids grip and traction. And from what he says, we are talking realy thin. As in 2+ tyre sizes down (limited of course by the wheel dimensions).

It all depends on the exact application/driving conditions. Do you need to dig down and find something "solid" for traction or do you need to stay on top and "float"

Doktor
01 Feb 14,, 20:50
I have a consultant who works for us who is from Finland. Now we know those guys are probably the kings of driving in snow/ice and their record in the WRC proves it. Not to mention their mastery in F1 as well, though its obviously apples and oranges. Well this guy told me something interesting about driving in snow/ice in winter. Normally most guys here shod their vehicles with expensive after market tyres that are wider than the stock ones, in the assumption that even though it would guzzle a little more and maybe cause extra drag, it would aid grip and handling. Our Finnish man says they do the opposite. Come winter, (basically there most of the year its not much different), they put on THINNER tyres on to their cars and SUVs which digs in better and aids grip and traction. And from what he says, we are talking realy thin. As in 2+ tyre sizes down (limited of course by the wheel dimensions).

35342

You missed some good WRC footages.

I chose Subaru picture because of Tamara's Forester ;) All teams use very thin tires.

sated buddha
01 Feb 14,, 21:00
I think these guys and the IOMTT guys are simply Gods man. My friends and I the other day were drinking and wondering if one day we could take some time out and just take part in the Isle of Man TT. Even if we come last, which we probably will, it would be one of those 100 things to do before you die type of things.

Doktor
01 Feb 14,, 21:01
I think these guys and the IOMTT guys are simply Gods man. My friends and I the other day were drinking and wondering if one day we could take some time out and just take part in the Isle of Man TT. Even if we come last, which we probably will, it would be one of those 100 things to do before you die type of things.

You mean if you finish the race?

sated buddha
01 Feb 14,, 21:07
You mean if you finish the race?

I guess one lap (around the island) is 26 miles. Its not really a race. From what I hear, they are timed laps. I'm sure I could finish more than a lap bro. Without crashing. There are some (Indian) bike juornos who I know and have ridden and raced with who have done it, so its not like you cannot ride the course. Placing anywhere close to the top is another planet altogether.

Doktor
01 Feb 14,, 21:09
You said race, not sightseeing :whome:

sated buddha
01 Feb 14,, 21:12
You said race, not sightseeing :whome:

I'm 43. Let me sightsee man. It'll be hard enough keeping out of the way of the fast guys as they keep lapping us.

The street cred one would get coming back home and nonchalantly swigging a beer at the bar and telling the young racer puppies that you've raced at the IOMTT would be priceless and ensure stories for a lifetime.

bonehead
01 Feb 14,, 21:15
35342

You missed some good WRC footages.

I chose Subaru picture because of Tamara's Forester ;) All teams use very thin tires.

All on hard pack snow. The same tires would fail and the car would high center in deep softer snow. Those tires would suck on the soft sand on the beach too.

bonehead
08 Feb 14,, 21:05
Yep. I've chained up a few times yarding my wood trailer out of the muddy trails. I can lock the differential 50% up and 50%back. It also has a granny switch that when engaged keeps you from going down a steep hill too quickly. It makes a lot of scary noises but it works. Locking axels were an option I chose not to pay for. BTW I also have to disengage the traction control if I want to have any fun.

I hear you loud and clear on the winch. I know I can get unstuck with what I have but it will take a lot longer and I am going to have to earn my freedom again. Unspooling the cable to an anchor and pushing a button does have its appeal. On the flip side when I do get stuck I get to practice all the rope work and mechanical advantage I learned from mountain rescue.


I stand corrected. I do have limited slip axels. No full lockers though.