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Minskaya
17 Jan 14,, 15:22
Inmate’s death called ‘horrific’ under new, 2-drug execution
January 17, 2014

LUCASVILLE, Ohio — It wasn’t the terrifying, brutal death he inflicted on his 22-year-old victim in 1989, but Dennis McGuire did not go quietly yesterday. McGuire struggled, made guttural noises, gasped for air and choked for about 10 minutes before succumbing to a new, two-drug execution method at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility near Lucasville. There was no clear indication that the drug combination — never before used in a U.S. execution — triggered McGuire’s death struggles. But Allen Bohnert, one of McGuire’s federal public defenders, called the execution a “failed, agonizing experiment by the state of Ohio.” “The people of the state of Ohio should be appalled by what was done in their name,” Bohnert told reporters.

McGuire died from an injection of midazolam, a sedative, and hydromorphone, a morphine derivative. The combination was included in the state’s execution policy as far back as 2009 but only as a backup involving intramuscular injection. The state switched to the two drugs for intravenous injection for McGuire’s execution because pentobarbital, the single drug used before, is no longer available as manufacturers will not sell it for use in executions. The chemicals began flowing about 10:29 a.m., and for a while, McGuire was quiet, closing his eyes and turning his face up and away from his family. However, about 10:34 a.m., he began struggling. His body strained against the restraints around his body, and he repeatedly gasped for air, making snorting and choking sounds for about 10 minutes. His chest and stomach heaved; his left hand, which he had used minutes earlier to wave goodbye to his family, clenched in a fist. McGuire eventually issued two final, silent gasps and became still. He was pronounced dead at 10:53 a.m.
Source (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/01/16/mcguire-execution.html)

McGuire was convicted of the attempted rape and murder of 22 year old Joy Stewart in 1989. She was pregnant at the time and the fetus also perished. Her husband Kenneth committed suicide less than a year after her murder.

Gregory Lott is scheduled to be executed in the same manner on March 19. This thread is not intended to debate capital punishment. That complex subject can be discussed in another thread. Rather, what do you think of the duration (almost 30 minutes) of this execution? The prison warden said that a review will be conducted as per protocol, but nothing technically went wrong. Although manufacturers no longer allow pentobarbital for human executions, it is still the veterinarian drug of choice for animal euthanasia and is fairly quick and painless. Does this make any sense? I believe the US Supreme Court has ruled that executions must not be cruel and unusual affairs. In other words... as brief as possible and humane.

Thoughts?

Officer of Engineers
17 Jan 14,, 15:25
I am not going to lose any sleep that he suffered.

SteveDaPirate
17 Jan 14,, 15:31
I think it is silly to spend all kinds of money on exotic means of executing a criminal. If the state decides that a convict needs to die, just have them shot and be done with it. It is fast, inexpensive, and in my opinion more humane since you have the option to shoot them again if they don't die immediately.

Blademaster
17 Jan 14,, 16:36
I wondered why they banned hanging or decapitation from capital punishment. It is the easiest and most swiftest way to kill somebody. Or a proper placed bullet to the head would do the trick. I don't believe in death by drugs.

Also, why did they stop public viewing of the executions? They should make it public again. If you make it private because you think it would turn the public against execution, then it is not a good idea in the first place. The reason why we have execution is for deterence.

Captain Worley
17 Jan 14,, 16:39
Thoughts? He got off easy.

SteveDaPirate
17 Jan 14,, 16:49
I can understand doing away with hanging and decapitation since the family of the deceased will likely want to have an open casket funeral. Even if someone was a true menace to society, their family will probably still love them and want to have a proper funeral. Death by firing squad allows this, since they generally aim for the heart.

As far as public executions being an effective deterrent, I have my doubts. I think deterring people from committing crime has more to do with the likelihood of being apprehended than of the harshness of the punishment. It doesn't matter how severe the penalty may be if you don’t think you will be caught in the first place.

antimony
17 Jan 14,, 18:23
In the NPR report, they said that he was snoring. This guy was allowed to die in his sleep, something that most of us can only wish for.

You are asking for our thoughts? My thought is that it is in these cases that I wish I had a belief in afterlife, where he would truly suffer for what he has done. Unfortunately, his suffering has ended

Minskaya
17 Jan 14,, 18:37
In the NPR report, they said that he was snoring. This guy was allowed to die in his sleep, something that most of us can only wish for.
Snoring? Most reports say snorting (breathing forcefully through the nostrils).

Dreadnought
17 Jan 14,, 18:49
Less painful then the rape and murder of a pregnant newly wed he killed.

Good ridance to a POS that destroyed a family.

TopHatter
17 Jan 14,, 18:52
Less painful then the rape and murder of a pregnant newly wed he killed.

Agreed. To quote our SWO Captain: "Consume excrement and assume room temperature"

tbm3fan
17 Jan 14,, 18:57
Less painful then the rape and murder of a pregnant newly wed he killed.

Good ridance to a POS that destroyed a family.

Especially since he slit her throat which is no pleasant way of dying drowning in one's blood.

antimony
17 Jan 14,, 19:01
Snoring? Most reports say snorting (breathing forcefully through the nostrils).

Maybe, I heard it on radio

I still say he got off easy

Minskaya
17 Jan 14,, 19:02
I can smell the lawsuits already. I'll bet a judge puts the next scheduled execution in Ohio (March 19) on hold.

tuna
17 Jan 14,, 19:12
In trying to answer the question posted by the OP, I think 30 minutes should be considered reasonably quick and an injection is not unusual.

Though he suffered more than some other means of execution, he suffered less than he should have.

I do agree that we make executions needlessly expensive and complex affairs. Stones seem to work pretty well and can be used again, same with rope and the guillotine. But I see no problem with this method.

Minskaya
17 Jan 14,, 19:14
Of the three countries in which I hold citizenship (Belarus/Ukraine/Israel), only Belarus has capital punishment. The condemned is forced to kneel and is then shot in the back of head.

bonehead
17 Jan 14,, 19:54
Lethal injection as a "humane alternative" has been a failure. Bring on the guillotine. It does not care if you are obese or sickly. It is inexpensive and has a great track record. As like the others in this thread, the only thing I think that is horrific is the crime he did that gave him the death penalty. Now those he affected can sleep in peace knowing this POS will never accidentally get out of prison.

YellowFever
17 Jan 14,, 20:17
Dennis McGuire did not go quietly yesterday. McGuire struggled, made guttural noises, gasped for air and choked for about 10 minutes before succumbing to a new, two-drug execution method at the Southern Ohio Correctional Facility near Lucasville.*



He suffered?

Bummer!

Next?

Doktor
17 Jan 14,, 21:09
Personally, I would leave him in a very deep hole without food or water. Would check him every week, to make sure when to fill the hole with sand.

kato
17 Jan 14,, 22:23
The condemned is forced to kneel and is then shot in the back of head.
East Germany used the "unexpected close shot" as its sole method of execution from 1968 until they abandoned capital punishment in 1987. Execution usually followed within weeks after conviction. Someone would tell you that you're about to be executed, you'd be given an hour to write a last letter, then you'd be led over into another room, where while you enter it someone behind you that you don't see would silently step up to you and suddenly shoot you in the back of the head with a silenced pistol before you really realize it. The concept by and large was borrowed from the KGB, much like the one in Belarus probably is.

Unless the executioner messes up no real pain that you'd still acknowledge; no dog-and-pony show for witnesses; no building heavy depression knowing you'll die at some indeterminate point in the future and spend years in jail until then. Quick and clean.

Minskaya
17 Jan 14,, 22:38
East Germany used the "unexpected close shot" as its sole method of execution from 1968 until they abandoned capital punishment in 1987. Execution usually followed within weeks after conviction. Someone would tell you that you're about to be executed, you'd be given an hour to write a last letter, then you'd be led over into another room, where while you enter it someone behind you that you don't see would silently step up to you and suddenly shoot you in the back of the head with a silenced pistol before you really realize it. The concept by and large was borrowed from the KGB, much like the one in Belarus probably is.

Unless the executioner messes up no real pain that you'd still acknowledge; no dog-and-pony show for witnesses; no building heavy depression knowing you'll die at some indeterminate point in the future and spend years in jail until then. Quick and clean.
The state security service in Belarus is still officially known as the KGB.

zraver
17 Jan 14,, 23:13
Snoring? Most reports say snorting (breathing forcefully through the nostrils).

Snoring and Snorting are both signs of agonal respiration along with gasping. They are signs of impending death, often occurring after clinical death but before biological death and occur to unconscious persons. It is not in anyway a sign of suffering.

Agonal respiration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agonal_respiration)

antimony
18 Jan 14,, 00:40
East Germany used the "unexpected close shot" as its sole method of execution from 1968 until they abandoned capital punishment in 1987. Execution usually followed within weeks after conviction. Someone would tell you that you're about to be executed, you'd be given an hour to write a last letter, then you'd be led over into another room, where while you enter it someone behind you that you don't see would silently step up to you and suddenly shoot you in the back of the head with a silenced pistol before you really realize it. The concept by and large was borrowed from the KGB, much like the one in Belarus probably is.

Unless the executioner messes up no real pain that you'd still acknowledge; no dog-and-pony show for witnesses; no building heavy depression knowing you'll die at some indeterminate point in the future and spend years in jail until then. Quick and clean.

Me likey.

Quick and (relatively) painless as well as practice for the 00 agents-in-training

Parihaka
18 Jan 14,, 01:03
I believe the US Supreme Court has ruled that executions must not be cruel and unusual affairs. In other words... as brief as possible and humane.

Thoughts?

What in hell is wrong with a large caliber bullet to the brain?

dave lukins
18 Jan 14,, 01:10
I hope he is still suffering wherever this miscreant is. No sympathy whatsoever.

zraver
18 Jan 14,, 04:57
What in hell is wrong with a large caliber bullet to the brain?

it introduces lead into the environment and can harm raptors and vultures that feed on the carrion.

chakos
18 Jan 14,, 05:38
Sometimes you read a good news story that lifts the spirits...

Im not a fan of the suprise execution to be honest. I WANT the perp to sit there for a goodly period of time contemplating his demise. For those of us who don't believe in an afterlife for good or bad, instant suprise death is a cop out. Its something a soldier wishes for, not something a vile piece of shit like this perp should deserve.

Edit: Interesting, a few months ago I would have read this and had a 'meh' moment, wouldn't have particularly cared for the criminals suffering either way as long as he was disposed of in the end. With a pregnant partner however, with a child on the way, something inside me wants fucks like this to expire as slowly and agonizingly over the longest period possible.

Odd.

zraver
18 Jan 14,, 05:51
S

Odd.

Normal

bonehead
18 Jan 14,, 08:22
it introduces lead into the environment and can harm raptors and vultures that feed on the carrion.

Now why would you treat vultures and raptors that way? Throw the worthless carcass into a pit and let the others on death row fight over it.

Minskaya
18 Jan 14,, 08:56
I can smell the lawsuits already. I'll bet a judge puts the next scheduled execution in Ohio (March 19) on hold.

Killer's family will sue state over execution (http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/jan/18/family-of-executed-inmate-plans-to-sue-s/)

zraver
18 Jan 14,, 18:21
Killer's family will sue state over execution (http://www.vindy.com/news/2014/jan/18/family-of-executed-inmate-plans-to-sue-s/)

They will lose, anoxic brains don't feel anything so he could not have suffered. Plus agonal respiration is a normal part of dying usually occurring between clinical death and biological death.

Example of agonal respiration. Drowning mad recovered by life guards, no pulse but agonal respiration so clinically dead.

Agonal Gasps - Bondi Beach Rescue - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88uCTEmuuGI)

bonehead
19 Jan 14,, 02:39
They will lose, anoxic brains don't feel anything so he could not have suffered. Plus agonal respiration is a normal part of dying usually occurring between clinical death and biological death.

Example of agonal respiration. Drowning mad recovered by life guards, no pulse but agonal respiration so clinically dead.

Agonal Gasps - Bondi Beach Rescue - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88uCTEmuuGI)

Never underestimate the persuasiveness of a motivated lawyer and the ignorance of a judge/jury.

Tamara
28 Jan 14,, 09:50
........
Gregory Lott is scheduled to be executed in the same manner on March 19. This thread is not intended to debate capital punishment. That complex subject can be discussed in another thread. Rather, what do you think of the duration (almost 30 minutes) of this execution? The prison warden said that a review will be conducted as per protocol, but nothing technically went wrong. Although manufacturers no longer allow pentobarbital for human executions, it is still the veterinarian drug of choice for animal euthanasia and is fairly quick and painless. Does this make any sense? I believe the US Supreme Court has ruled that executions must not be cruel and unusual affairs. In other words... as brief as possible and humane.

Thoughts?

Hard to say........without knowing the mechanism of death in this case, not knowing what causes death and what the body goes through.

One of the "ghoulish" things I do from time to time is research how someone dies by this or that method. A lot of it is line of work but then again, I suppose one wouldn't get into this line of work if they didn't have some level of morbid interest or curiousity.

Is 30 minutes too long not to be humane? Depends on the mechanism. The passengers of Helios Airways Flight 522 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522) took almost 3 hours to die......but they were unconscious within the first 15 minutes and operationally dead probably 15 minutes after that. Now maybe in an oxygen starvation situation, in unconsciousness, it is experienced as terrifying as the brain dies, but assuming that it isn't, their passage from this world to the next might have been, aside from the unknown situation they were in, rather peaceful. Point is, we really can't judge how terrible a death is based on the clock alone.

Long story short, Minskaya, we need more information in order to accurately answer your question.

Gun Grape
29 Jan 14,, 02:22
This is the most horrible thing I have read. I think we should have an immediate ban on execution by lethal injection. Just too many questions. Same with the electric chair, hanging and firing squad.

I suggest we instead look to the past and bring back Scaphism as our only form of capitol punishment.

On the list of "Things I will do to you if you ever f*%k with my family" this one has always been in the top 3.

tbm3fan
29 Jan 14,, 05:02
Wow, the Persians sure were imaginative compared to others. Not meaning to short change Gunny of course.

bonehead
29 Jan 14,, 15:53
Some good news..others on death row are nervous about the new drug combinations and are scared they might "suffer" when their time comes. I think it is a ploy for a stay of execution but if those on the outside are scared perhaps a few horrible crimes will not happen as a result. Criminals being scared and changing behaviors. That is a win-win in my book.






ST. LOUIS (AP) — Lawyers for a convicted murderer were making final pleas for his life on Tuesday, just hours before his scheduled execution in Missouri.

Related Stories

Mo. death-row inmate: State using expired drug Associated Press
Ohio executes killer: Was untested lethal injection 'cruel and unusual'? Christian Science Monitor
States consider reviving old-fashioned executions Associated Press
Supreme Court stays execution of Missouri murderer Reuters
Appeals against US executions amid drug controversy AFP
Herbert Smulls was convicted and sentenced to death for killing a St. Louis County jeweler and badly injuring his wife during a 1991 robbery. He is scheduled for lethal injection at 12:01 a.m. Wednesday.

His defense attorney, Cheryl Pilate, has an appeal pending before the U.S. Supreme Court and is seeking clemency from Gov. Jay Nixon, who said Tuesday afternoon that he was still weighing the clemency request. Pilate's arguments are mostly focused on the secrecy shrouding the execution drug.

State prison officials have refused to reveal from which compounding pharmacy they obtained their lethal-injection drug, pentobarbital. Pilate contends that the secrecy makes it impossible to know whether the drug could cause pain and suffering during the execution process.

The prospect of being put to death with a drug whose origin remains sealed "terrifies" Smulls, his attorney said. Pilate also said her client changed in prison, becoming a man who gets along well with other inmates and guards, and who has learned to write despite a low level of intelligence.

"I frankly cannot begin to tell you how distressing this situation is, that the state is going to execute a prisoner in his mid-50s who made one series of colossal mistakes that were in many ways out of character, because he is not a violent person," Pilate said.

St. Louis County prosecutor Bob McCulloch said talk about the drug is a smoke screen aimed at sparing the life of a cold-blooded killer. He noted that several courts have already ruled against Smulls, including U.S. District Court in Kansas City and the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.

"It was a horrific crime," McCulloch said. "With all the other arguments that the opponents of the death penalty are making, it's simply to try to divert the attention from what this guy did, and why he deserves to be executed."

Smulls had already served prison time for robbery when, on July 27, 1991, he went to F&M Crown Jewels in Chesterfield and told the owners, Stephen and Florence Honickman, that he wanted to buy a diamond for his fiancee. He took 15-year-old Norman Brown with him.

Once in the shop, Smulls began shooting. Stephen Honickman pleaded, "Enough already, take what you want," according to testimony from his wife. The robbers took rings and watches, including those that Florence Honickman was wearing.

Florence Honickman was shot in the side and the arm. She feigned death while lying in a pool of her own blood but survived. Her 51-year-old husband died.

Police stopped Smulls 15 minutes later, and they found the stolen jewelry along with weapons in his car. Florence Honickman identified the assailants.

Brown was convicted in 1993 of first-degree murder and other charges, and sentenced to life without parole. Smulls got the death penalty.

Missouri had used a three-drug execution process since 1989, until the drug makers stopped selling those drugs for executions. Missouri eventually switched late last year to pentobarbital, and the state argues that the compounding pharmacy providing the drug is part of the execution team — and therefore its name cannot be released to the public.

Compounding pharmacies custom-mix drugs for clients and are not subject to oversight by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, though they are regulated by states.

The drug was used to execute two Missouri inmates late last year.

On Tuesday, Pilate said that previous testimony from a prison official indicates the state stores the drug at room temperatures, which could taint the drug and potentially cause it to lose its effectiveness.

Pilate also said she and her defense team used information obtained through open records requests and publicly available documents to determine that the compounding pharmacy is The Apothecary Shoppe, based in Tulsa, Okla. In a statement, The Apothecary Shoppe would neither confirm nor deny that it makes the Missouri drug.

Also on Tuesday, Missouri Senate Democratic Leader Jolie Justus introduced legislation that would create an 11-member commission responsible for setting the state's execution procedure.

She said ongoing lawsuits and secrecy about the state's current lethal injection method should drive a change in protocol.
Yahoo! (http://news.yahoo.com/pending-execution-39-terrifies-39-inmate-lawyer-says-220627545.html)

Minskaya
08 Feb 14,, 14:36
I'll bet a judge puts the next scheduled execution in Ohio (March 19) on hold.

Next Ohio execution postponed by Kasich (http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/local/2014/02/07/kasich-postpones-march-19-execution.html)

Louisiana has also ordered a delay for an upcoming execution due to the midazolam/hydromorphone problems encountered by Ohio in executing Dennis McGuire.

kato
08 Feb 14,, 19:33
Although manufacturers no longer allow pentobarbital for human executions, it is still the veterinarian drug of choice for animal euthanasia and is fairly quick and painless.
Btw, it's actually not so much manufacturers as the fact that that manufacturer is in the EU. The ban on selling pentobarbital for executions is completely voluntary on the manufacturer's side, but only because the Danish government threatened, but did not officially enforce EU law (which bans exporting any components used in executions to outside the EU). For the same reason Hospira dropped exporting sodium thiopental from Italian factories in 2011 (which prompted the switch to pentobarbital in the first place).

Midazolam is produced by Roche btw. In Europe. Guess what's next not to be banned for capital punishment usage.

bonehead
08 Feb 14,, 21:12
Btw, it's actually not so much manufacturers as the fact that that manufacturer is in the EU. The ban on selling pentobarbital for executions is completely voluntary on the manufacturer's side, but only because the Danish government threatened, but did not officially enforce EU law (which bans exporting any components used in executions to outside the EU). For the same reason Hospira dropped exporting sodium thiopental from Italian factories in 2011 (which prompted the switch to pentobarbital in the first place).

Midazolam is produced by Roche btw. In Europe. Guess what's next not to be banned for capital punishment usage.

Oh the irony. The U.S. is awash with drugs, both RX and the illegal variety, which kills thousands a year yet we cant find a reliable source to execute a handful of death sentences.

troung
08 Feb 14,, 21:33
Firing squad or electric chair.

This isn't rocket science, people have been executed for several millennium.