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prash
22 Nov 13,, 12:50
Afghanistan has handed an armaments wish-list over to New Delhi ahead of the 2014 NATO drawdown from that country.
It includes as many as 150 battle tanks, 120 (105 mm) field guns, a large number of 82 mm mortars, one medium lift transport aircraft (AN-32), two squadrons of medium lift and attack helicopters, and a large number of trucks.
The Afghanistan government has sought military and civilian support from India as part of its strategy to scale up its armoury. Afghanistan has also sought allied paraphernalia for training, maintenance and upkeep of the equipment from India.
Afghanistan army wish list

Highly-placed sources in the government have said the Afghanistan army also wants New Delhi to set up a military training facility for its officers and soldiers in Afghanistan and provide a training team immediately.
The Afghan army men will be trained in English language, counter insurgency operations, ordnance-weapons and vehicle repairs.
India is also providing $2bn to Afghanistan for its infrastructure development projects, including construction of dams, roads, bridges, Parliament, schools, hospitals and training facilities.
"India is working very closely with the US, Russia and several other countries on Afghanistan post- 2014 drawdown and all like-minded powers have one goal. Afghanistan cannot be permitted to slide back into the tumultuous days of Taliban. An effort is being made to synchronize the rebuilding effort," sources said.
In a powerful signal to India, Afghanistan has turned down Pakistan's offer to train their service personnel and a generous line of credit to take "what they want" from Pakistan ordnance factories.
"Pakistan's powerful Army Chief General Ashfq Pervez Kayani had visited Afghanistan and offered to train the Afghanistan Army - both officers and men. One officer even attended the Command and Staff College in Quetta but in his assessment report after the course said officers in future should be sent to Staff College, Wellington (India)," sources said.
More than 400 Afghan army officers have undergone training at National Defence Academy (NDA) Khadakvasla, Indian Military Academy (IMA) Dehradun and Officers Training Academy (OTA) Chennai in the past three years alone. A total of 1,200 Afghan National Army officers have been trained by India.
"Back in Afghanistan, they proudly wear the NDA, IMA & OTA insignia on their uniform. Though the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) has set up a training base for Afghan officers and enlisted men in Afghanistan itself, communication remains an issue. Therefore, they prefer to undergo training in India. We give pre-commission training to 50 officers every year. The cadets undergo an examination similar to Services Selection Board (SSB) in Kabul itself," sources said

Afghanistan sends India a weapons wish-list ahead of NATO withdrawal | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2510786/Afghanistan-sends-India-weapons-wish-list-ahead-NATO-withdrawal.html#ixzz2lNFlWW12)


there are reports that we will only give light military equipment to afganistan because of pakistani appeasement policy of our current government.I would like a debate on this bit that what is the req for that appeasement

Stitch
22 Nov 13,, 22:07
Interesting. I just assumed they would buy Western, like Iraq did; but I suppose it makes a little more sense to buy "locally", even if they are Russian products. Plus, I bet they're a lot cheaper than AH-64's & M-1's!

Double Edge
22 Nov 13,, 23:34
Cheaper and India has an interest to supply them in the long term.

But they must be sending lists like this to many countries.

zraver
22 Nov 13,, 23:51
Not just cheaper, but political and strategic as well. Russia is fickle, Pakistan is an enemy. That leaves India and Iran, both being good choices.

anil
23 Nov 13,, 07:03
It's not possible to send arms because it is landlocked between hostile states. More importantly, afghanistan has no future because of its internal civil war which enables foreign states to meddle in its affairs. It'll remain a buffer zone for a long time to come.

prash
23 Nov 13,, 13:27
It's not possible to send arms because it is landlocked between hostile states. More importantly, afghanistan has no future because of its internal civil war which enables foreign states to meddle in its affairs. It'll remain a buffer zone for a long time to come.

we send stuff through iran presumably considering we just constructed/ing a railway line from an iranian port all the way to afganistan which has led afganistan to show pakistan the finger on the latters threat of closing the border and thus suffocation afganistan.


post edit : India is constructing a 900-km railway line that will connect Chabahar port in Iran, being built with Indian help, to the mineral-rich Hajigak region of Afghanistan.

winton
23 Nov 13,, 20:14
It's not possible to send arms because it is landlocked between hostile states. More importantly, afghanistan has no future because of its internal civil war which enables foreign states to meddle in its affairs. It'll remain a buffer zone for a long time to come.

What can India gain strategically from Afghanistan being landlocked?. What is it that it can trade for?

Seems like a big waste of time and who wants to piss of those Talibans?

Doktor
24 Nov 13,, 01:00
What can India gain strategically from Afghanistan being landlocked?. What is it that it can trade for?
Two words. Pakistan. Minerals.


Seems like a big waste of time and who wants to piss of those Talibans?
Just wow!

chanjyj
24 Nov 13,, 02:55
Doktor, Afghanistan is way too unstable. I'd bet my entire stash of gold coins that the tanks won't even get fuelled more than a few times. I wouldn't be surprised if some disappear.

Doktor
24 Nov 13,, 03:04
Doktor, Afghanistan is way too unstable. I'd bet my entire stash of gold coins that the tanks won't even get fuelled more than a few times. I wouldn't be surprised if some disappear.

Not in disagreement there, chanjyj.

I was merely replying what would be the Indian interest.

BTW, A-stan wants gifts or to buy those thingies?

prash
24 Nov 13,, 03:19
BTW, A-stan wants gifts or to buy those thingies?

gifts

Officer of Engineers
24 Nov 13,, 04:57
Seems like a big waste of time and who wants to piss of those Talibans?Any man with a daughter.

anil
24 Nov 13,, 05:08
@prash

Come down back to reality. Having an iranian route does not change complex geopolitics. What are you going to do? Wrap a tank in a big box and declare it as soda machines on the customs document? Even if you get a few tanks across, do you think it can solve the civil war?

Afghanistan is going to get ripped apart. The pashtuns, tajiks, uzbeks and others don't realize it yet that afghanistan is the sore loser in this whole game.

prash
24 Nov 13,, 05:21
@prash

Come down back to reality. Having an iranian route does not change complex geopolitics. What are you going to do? Wrap a tank in a big box and declare it as soda machines on the customs document? Even if you get a few tanks across, do you think it can solve the civil war?

Afghanistan is going to get ripped apart. The pashtuns, tajiks, uzbeks and others don't realize it yet that afghanistan is the sore loser in this whole game.

and how do you think the current military gear reaches indian security forces in afganistan??

anil
24 Nov 13,, 05:47
and how do you think the current military gear reaches indian security forces in afganistan??
What military gear? http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/images/smilies/ashamed0005.gif

prash
24 Nov 13,, 06:06
What military gear? http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/images/smilies/ashamed0005.gif

india has no military presence in afganistan but we do have a battalion of para military ITBP there....

winton
24 Nov 13,, 07:31
Two words. Pakistan. Minerals.

Just wow!

How exactly is it a strategic plus to be mining minerals in Afghanistan and having to haul it across pakistan or iran (and ship it past pakistan)

and on top of that, doing it without the Taliban's blessing.

It just beggars belief.

Double Edge
24 Nov 13,, 08:45
Mining has not begun yet, its just blocks that have been allocated. China has mining interests there too.

It's a wait and see before more investments people & materials come forth depending on how the security situation evolves.

Defcon5
24 Nov 13,, 19:07
How exactly is it a strategic plus to be mining minerals in Afghanistan and having to haul it across pakistan or iran (and ship it past pakistan)

and on top of that, doing it without the Taliban's blessing.

It just beggars belief.

Stronger Afghanistan leads to a weaker Pakistan. Everything else is a gain.

Doktor
24 Nov 13,, 20:01
How exactly is it a strategic plus to be mining minerals in Afghanistan and having to haul it across pakistan or iran (and ship it past pakistan)
Your question was...

What can India gain strategically from Afghanistan being landlocked?. What is it that it can trade for?

But since you insist, if those minerals can be safely extracted and transported, let me remind you A-stan has more borders then Pakistan.


and on top of that, doing it without the Taliban's blessing.
Chinese are interested in the same biz as Indians. Wanna bet (assuming you will be long enough here) those operations will be Taliban free if/when both countries place their interests in place?


It just beggars belief.
Are you calling me a beggar or this was a typo?

winton
24 Nov 13,, 23:10
Your question was...

yes and your short answer left alot to the imagination.


But since you insist, if those minerals can be safely extracted and transported, let me remind you A-stan has more borders then Pakistan.

All of which pose significant problems for the indians cause there is no direct route. Sure they can sell to other countries, but where is the strategic advantage in that?

Mind you, its not just minerals. Even dropping of diplomats is at the discretion of a third party.


Chinese are interested in the same biz as Indians. Wanna bet (assuming you will be long enough here) those operations will be Taliban free if/when both countries place their interests in place?

china correct me if I'm wrong, has a border with afghanistan. And I think as long as said country has some dialogue with the taliban than there are lest security issues.


Are you calling me a beggar or this was a typo?

I think its lost in translation.

Doktor
24 Nov 13,, 23:15
yes and your short answer left alot to the imagination.
I see you have no problems to use it. When it suits you.


All of which pose significant problems for the indians cause there is no direct route. Sure they can sell to other countries, but where is the strategic advantage in that?
Keeping Pakistan busy elsewhere.


Mind you, its not just minerals. Even dropping of diplomats is at the discretion of a third party.
And that is not a problem for India as you could see. They even have soldiers and equipment in there.


china correct me if I'm wrong, has a border with afghanistan. And I think as long as said country has some dialogue with the taliban than there are lest security issues.
You give too much weight to the Talibans.

winton
24 Nov 13,, 23:28
I see you have no problems to use it. When it suits you.

If you were a bit more specific I could too, but you just said "pakistan, minerals" What am I suppose to make of it.


Keeping Pakistan busy elsewhere.

Pakistan is busy espeically when it wants to keep india busier in kashmir,
but afghanistan is its strategic depth. its a core interest.


And that is not a problem for India as you could see. They even have soldiers and equipment in there.

Cause the US obviously lobbied pakistan. How did india get its troops and equipment in?


You give too much weight to the Talibans.

Because they have punched well above their weight. The only think holding them back right now is the full force of the US military.

prash
24 Nov 13,, 23:39
Cause the US obviously lobbied pakistan. How did india get its troops and equipment in?





there are other countries which share a border with afganistan.as a matter of fact india has a mig 29 base in tajakistan which does share a border with afganistan.

prash
24 Nov 13,, 23:43
there are other countries which share a border with afganistan.as a matter of fact india has a mig 29 base in tajakistan which does share a border with afganistan.

Farkhor Air Base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farkhor_Air_Base)

how does indian equipment reach tajakistan?another landlocked country. it does not share a border with russia

winton
24 Nov 13,, 23:44
there are other countries which share a border with afganistan.as a matter of fact india has a mig 29 base in tajakistan which does share a border with afganistan.

so are you saying the troops and equipment came through tajikistan?

prash
24 Nov 13,, 23:51
anyways i think the equipment will be sent through any of the cis country sharing a border with afganistan and the minerals would be sent through the indian port at chabbar,iran.

and winton even with american lobbying pakistan wont let indian troops and equipment pass through its territory.the battalion of itbt went through someplace else

prash
24 Nov 13,, 23:53
How exactly is it a strategic plus to be mining minerals in Afghanistan and having to haul it across pakistan or iran (and ship it past pakistan)

and on top of that, doing it without the Taliban's blessing.

It just beggars belief.

its just 900 kms by train to chabbar,iran and warm waters

winton
25 Nov 13,, 00:16
its just 900 kms by train to chabbar,iran and warm waters

Chabbar port is a good play. but it hinges on the security situation and pakistans role as a spoiler.

prash
25 Nov 13,, 00:29
Chabbar port is a good play. but it hinges on the security situation and pakistans role as a spoiler.

security situation yes,pakistan no,pakistan can do jack about this situation...this whole thing is done to circumvent pakistan in the first place,it is now actually cheaper logistically to go through iran.and india and china are the sole relevant powers still doing business with iran,so iran wont piss china and india.

prash
25 Nov 13,, 00:36
india has agreements with iran for tarrif reduction and duty exemptions for goods meant for and from central asian countries and afganistan.india has been using chabbar port since 2012 when it used it for the first time to transport 100,000 tons of wheat to afganistan.this whole off topic discussion is a waste of time.
India begins use of Chabahar port in Iran despite international pressure - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9115192/India-begins-use-of-Chabahar-port-in-Iran-despite-international-pressure.html)

prash
25 Nov 13,, 00:37
double post

xinhui
25 Nov 13,, 05:42
Afghanistan has handed an armaments wish-list over to New Delhi ahead of the 2014 NATO drawdown from that country.
It includes as many as 150 battle tanks, 120 (105 mm) field guns, a large number of 82 mm mortars, one medium lift transport aircraft (AN-32), two squadrons of medium lift and attack helicopters, and a large number of trucks.
The Afghanistan government has sought military and civilian support from India as part of its strategy to scale up its armoury. Afghanistan has also sought allied paraphernalia for training, maintenance and upkeep of the equipment from India.
Afghanistan army wish list

Highly-placed sources in the government have said the Afghanistan army also wants New Delhi to set up a military training facility for its officers and soldiers in Afghanistan and provide a training team immediately.
The Afghan army men will be trained in English language, counter insurgency operations, ordnance-weapons and vehicle repairs.
India is also providing $2bn to Afghanistan for its infrastructure development projects, including construction of dams, roads, bridges, Parliament, schools, hospitals and training facilities.
"India is working very closely with the US, Russia and several other countries on Afghanistan post- 2014 drawdown and all like-minded powers have one goal. Afghanistan cannot be permitted to slide back into the tumultuous days of Taliban. An effort is being made to synchronize the rebuilding effort," sources said.
In a powerful signal to India, Afghanistan has turned down Pakistan's offer to train their service personnel and a generous line of credit to take "what they want" from Pakistan ordnance factories.
"Pakistan's powerful Army Chief General Ashfq Pervez Kayani had visited Afghanistan and offered to train the Afghanistan Army - both officers and men. One officer even attended the Command and Staff College in Quetta but in his assessment report after the course said officers in future should be sent to Staff College, Wellington (India)," sources said.
More than 400 Afghan army officers have undergone training at National Defence Academy (NDA) Khadakvasla, Indian Military Academy (IMA) Dehradun and Officers Training Academy (OTA) Chennai in the past three years alone. A total of 1,200 Afghan National Army officers have been trained by India.
"Back in Afghanistan, they proudly wear the NDA, IMA & OTA insignia on their uniform. Though the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) has set up a training base for Afghan officers and enlisted men in Afghanistan itself, communication remains an issue. Therefore, they prefer to undergo training in India. We give pre-commission training to 50 officers every year. The cadets undergo an examination similar to Services Selection Board (SSB) in Kabul itself," sources said

Afghanistan sends India a weapons wish-list ahead of NATO withdrawal | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-2510786/Afghanistan-sends-India-weapons-wish-list-ahead-NATO-withdrawal.html#ixzz2lNFlWW12)


there are reports that we will only give light military equipment to afganistan because of pakistani appeasement policy of our current government.I would like a debate on this bit that what is the req for that appeasement


Politics aside (not touching it), given the current state of India's military ind complex, to supply 150 battle tanks, 120 (105 mm) field guns might be a tall order, assume they are new. Are we talking about hand-me-downs? support, spare parts, etc are host of issues before this deal can be realized.

anil
25 Nov 13,, 06:25
india has no military presence in afganistan but we do have a battalion of para military ITBP there

the battalion of itbt went through someplace else
Is the ITBP made up of any special chemical element that restricts it from boarding any ordinary charter flight from delhi-kabul?

prash
25 Nov 13,, 06:42
Is the ITBP made up of any special chemical element that restricts it from boarding any ordinary charter flight from delhi-kabul?

rifles and ammo.arent indian planes barred from flying over pakistan since 26/11.

anil
25 Nov 13,, 07:18
Forget all that, much of what you written about indian involvement in afghanistan is plain gossip. The fact is that actual indian military presence in afghanistan is not possible unless we get permission from the US to operate in that country, which is not acceptable to its partner, pakistan.


rifles and ammo
Already available in the local market

lemontree
26 Nov 13,, 06:17
....given the current state of India's military ind complex, to supply 150 battle tanks, 120 (105 mm) field guns might be a tall order, assume they are new. Are we talking about hand-me-downs? support, spare parts, etc are host of issues before this deal can be realized.

The tanks may be second hand T-72s, but the 105s may be new since we make 105 mm howitzers and field guns. Spare parts are not a problem for either of the two systems.