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Minskaya
10 Nov 13,, 10:26
Survivors 'walk like zombies' after Philippine typhoon kills estimated 10,000
Sun Nov 10, 2013

http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/24/60/56/5442449/7/628x471.jpg

One of the most powerful storms ever recorded killed at least 10,000 people in the central Philippines, a senior police official said on Sunday, with huge waves sweeping away entire coastal villages and devastating the region's main city.
Super typhoon Haiyan destroyed about 70 to 80 percent of the area in its path as it tore through Leyte province on Friday, said police chief superintendent Elmer Soria. As rescue workers struggled to reach ravaged villages along the coast, where the death toll is as yet unknown, survivors foraged for food as supplies dwindled or searched for lost loved ones. "People are walking like zombies looking for food," said Jenny Chu, a medical student in Leyte. "It's like a movie." Most of the deaths appear to have been caused by surging sea water strewn with debris that many said resembled a tsunami, leveling houses and drowning hundreds of people in one of the worst natural disasters to hit the typhoon-prone Southeast Asian nation.

The national government and disaster agency have not confirmed the latest estimate of deaths, a sharp increase from initial estimates on Saturday of at least 1,000 killed by a storm whose sustained winds reached 195 miles per hour (313 km per hour) with gusts of up to 235 mph. "We had a meeting last night with the governor and the other officials. The governor said, based on their estimate, 10,000 died," Soria told Reuters. "The devastation is so big." The national government and disaster agency have not confirmed the latest estimate of deaths, a sharp increase from initial estimates on Saturday of at least 1,000 killed by a storm whose sustained winds reached 195 miles per hour (313 km per hour) with gusts of up to 235 mph.

Tecson John Lim, the Tacloban city administrator, said city officials had so far only collected 300-400 bodies, but believed the death toll in the city alone could be 10,000. International aid agencies said relief efforts in the Philippines were stretched thin after a 7.2 magnitude quake in central Bohol province last month and displacement caused by a conflict with Muslim rebels in southern Zamboanga province. The World Food Programme said it was airlifting 40 tons of high-energy biscuits, enough to feed 120,000 people for a day, as well as emergency supplies and telecommunications equipment.
Source (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/10/us-philippines-typhoon-idUSBRE9A603Q20131110)

A catastrophe of epic proportions. Global aid is desperately needed.

Minskaya
16 Nov 13,, 07:34
The UN has failed miserably here. About 1000 US Marines and Air Force personnel are now there distributing airlifted supplies. The carrier USS George Washington is due to arrive in the coming hours. Britain has also dispatched warships to help with relief efforts. Two Boeing 747s with 234 Israeli doctors, nurses, and paramedics sent by the IDF have already set up a mobile unit and are operational. A baby delivered by an Israeli doctor yesterday was named Israel in gratitude.

cataphract
16 Nov 13,, 07:51
The UN has failed miserably here. About 1000 US Marines and Air Force personnel are now there distributing airlifted supplies. The carrier USS George Washington is due to arrive in the coming hours. Britain has also dispatched warships to help with relief efforts. Two Boeing 747s with 234 Israeli doctors, nurses, and paramedics sent by the IDF have already set up a mobile unit and are operational. A baby delivered by an Israeli doctor yesterday was named Israel in gratitude.

How does that translate into the UN having failed miserably?

Minskaya
16 Nov 13,, 08:01
How does that translate into the UN having failed miserably?
Despite relief being their raison d'être, UN emergency relief agencies/supplies are nowhere to be found in the wake of the catastrophe.

cataphract
16 Nov 13,, 08:35
Despite relief being their raison d'être, UN emergency relief agencies/supplies are nowhere to be found in the wake of the catastrophe.

You should read the articles you post. Here's the last line:


The World Food Programme said it was airlifting 40 tons of high-energy biscuits, enough to feed 120,000 people for a day, as well as emergency supplies and telecommunications equipment.

WFP is a UN body.

Minskaya
16 Nov 13,, 10:05
You should read the articles you post. Here's the last line: WFP is a UN body.
Indeed. I missed a days worth of biscuits.

Minskaya
16 Nov 13,, 10:37
A Norwegian merchant vessel in the employ of the WFP arrived in Tacloban yesterday with 40 tons of rice, medical supplies and body bags. The UN said it has raised $72 million of the $301 million requested. Assistance has been slow but is rapidly improving with foreign military's taking the lead. China has been criticized for low-balling relief due to disagreements with the Philippines over island possessions.

Doktor
16 Nov 13,, 10:38
Indeed. I missed a days worth of biscuits.

When I first read the info my thoughts were like "Someone in UN is suffering Marie Antoinette syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Let_them_eat_cake)"

Minnie, UN doesn't have a standing army, nor Air Fleet. Is it good or bad is totally another topic, but the fact is they were never ready to hop in at once. Anywhere.
On top of that add those layers of bureaucracy to make a decision.

Minskaya
16 Nov 13,, 11:31
Minnie, UN doesn't have a standing army, nor Air Fleet. Is it good or bad is totally another topic, but the fact is they were never ready to hop in at once. Anywhere.
On top of that add those layers of bureaucracy to make a decision.
Dok, I realize the UN has limitations. But everyone knew at least a week in advance that this storm (the largest recorded typhoon) was going to hit the Philippines dead-on. This wasn't a surprise like the Haiti earthquake or the Fukushima disaster.

cataphract
16 Nov 13,, 12:04
Dok, I realize the UN has limitations. But everyone knew at least a week in advance that this storm (the largest recorded typhoon) was going to hit the Philippines dead-on. This wasn't a surprise like the Haiti earthquake or the Fukushima disaster.

The scale of devastation is the surprise. Even to the Phillippines themselves. Far be it from me to like the UN, but credit must be given where it is deserved. The UN hasn't been sitting on its arse for this one.

Minskaya
16 Nov 13,, 13:01
The scale of devastation is the surprise. Even to the Phillippines themselves.
The devastation shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. The same storm striking the United States would have caused severe damage. Far greater than Hurricane Katrina.

Weather forecasters had warned that Super Typhoon Haiyan was one of the strongest storms ever seen on earth and would be a Category 5+ when it struck the Philippines.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/11/BY0bvd1CAAAwoV4.jpg
Super Typhoon Haiyan and the Phillipines superimposed on a map of the United States

zraver
16 Nov 13,, 13:35
Team Rubicon is on the ground with two emergency SAR/Medical teams, likely more coming. Included in the already there teams is my friend Lourdes Tigalo, a native of the area now a naturalized citizen and American vet. Also there is Chris Warton aka the Brit, another American vet who delayed taking his oath of loyalty to his adopted nation in order to deploy. The are working with the PI gov, PI military and the US military do triage, SAR and thanks to their mastery of the Palantir system, damage assessment ans recon on to remote islands where they are often the first help to arrive since the storm.

No I am not going.

Edit, just got word when I logged into FB that another really good friend of mne Tina Rooker aka queen of the fobbits a USMC vet) is busy working the log end of the response from TR's HQ in LA. If you want to donate to a group that has as its unofficial moto- "burn the bridges and get some...."

zraver
16 Nov 13,, 13:39
Also if you have excess air line miles... Airlink - Connecting Humanitarian Organizations with Air Transportation (http://www.istat-airlink.org/)

Double Edge
16 Nov 13,, 14:38
Dok, I realize the UN has limitations. But everyone knew at least a week in advance that this storm (the largest recorded typhoon) was going to hit the Philippines dead-on. This wasn't a surprise like the Haiti earthquake or the Fukushima disaster.
The govt of the phillipines could not move people out of the way ?

10k is pretty damn high.

tbm3fan
16 Nov 13,, 17:05
The govt of the phillipines could not move people out of the way ?

10k is pretty damn high.

Obviously you have never been to the Philippines. I have and their government couldn't find their way out of a paper bag sorry to say.

I like the country. My wife is from Rizal. None of that changes the fact that the government in inept and the people of the Philippines have limitations themselves.

Been to Leyte for the 50th Anniversary of MacArthur's landing in 1994. Seen Talcolban and the general area. I'd say not much had changed since 1944 in the rural area. Most of Leyte I would consider the boonies with precious few roads as we know them.

zraver
16 Nov 13,, 18:12
Obviously you have never been to the Philippines. I have and their government couldn't find their way out of a paper bag sorry to say.

I like the country. My wife is from Rizal. None of that changes the fact that the government in inept and the people of the Philippines have limitations themselves.

Been to Leyte for the 50th Anniversary of MacArthur's landing in 1994. Seen Talcolban and the general area. I'd say not much had changed since 1944 in the rural area. Most of Leyte I would consider the boonies with precious few roads as we know them.


In addition a lot of people are on smaller islands where evacuation is difficult given the size of the storm.

tbm3fan
16 Nov 13,, 18:52
I think one will find most of the dead will be from around Tacloban City which faced due east and was hit head on by the storm surge being at sea level. Once you move a little inland you start to hit the hills and then mountains of Leyte where the only problem would be high winds. High winds/typhoons have hit those inland areas for centuries and would cause little problem other than blowing palm fronds and/or corrugated metal roofing off the bamboo and cinder block huts.

zraver
16 Nov 13,, 19:19
TR has been being sent to outlying islands that have been totally cut off and wrecked.

Parihaka
16 Nov 13,, 20:00
Dok, I realize the UN has limitations. But everyone knew at least a week in advance that this storm (the largest recorded typhoon) was going to hit the Philippines dead-on. This wasn't a surprise like the Haiti earthquake or the Fukushima disaster.
Just a quick correction Minnie, it wasn't the largest typhoon on record, not even close.

Doktor
16 Nov 13,, 20:45
Dok, I realize the UN has limitations. But everyone knew at least a week in advance that this storm (the largest recorded typhoon) was going to hit the Philippines dead-on. This wasn't a surprise like the Haiti earthquake or the Fukushima disaster.

One week is milliseconds in UN time. Just saying.

OTOH, they have enough time and resources to fly them planes and helos 1/2 filled (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/08/01/uns-messy-billion-dollar-peacekeeping-air-charter-business-hugely-unfavorable/).

Minskaya
17 Nov 13,, 10:02
Just a quick correction Minnie, it wasn't the largest typhoon on record, not even close.
I should have been clearer. Typhoon Haiyan is the largest velocity tropical storm on record.

Double Edge
17 Nov 13,, 10:06
Obviously you have never been to the Philippines. I have and their government couldn't find their way out of a paper bag sorry to say.
Neither have i been to the state of Orissa in my county, so i have no idea whether that govt could find its way out of a paper bag either. See the difference in fatalities

Cyclone Phailin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_Phailin)
Typhoon Haiyan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Typhoon_Haiyan)

Both are Cat-5


I think one will find most of the dead will be from around Tacloban City which faced due east and was hit head on by the storm surge being at sea level. Once you move a little inland you start to hit the hills and then mountains of Leyte where the only problem would be high winds. High winds/typhoons have hit those inland areas for centuries and would cause little problem other than blowing palm fronds and/or corrugated metal roofing off the bamboo and cinder block huts.
Bingo!

Big Hurricanes, cyclones, typhoons all have advance warning. 5 days with present tech.

Minskaya
17 Nov 13,, 10:18
One week is milliseconds in UN time. Just saying.
Many unnecessary deaths can occur in UN milliseconds Dok. Delays also increase the potential of various medical problems associated with rotting corpses, contaminated water, lack of antibiotics, etc.

Doktor
17 Nov 13,, 10:22
Many unnecessary deaths can occur in UN milliseconds Dok. Delays also increase the potential of various medical problems associated with rotting corpses, contaminated water, lack of antibiotics, etc.

I know Minnie, UN is just that sloppy due to their bureaucracy.

Minskaya
17 Nov 13,, 10:56
http://www.trbimg.com/img-52882427/turbine/la-afp-getty-humanitarian-efforts-continue-20131116/600
Workers load bodies into a long trench for burial in Tacloban, Philippines, the city hardest hit by Typhoon Haiyan.
Authorities wanted to dig a second trench to accommodate more of the dead, but the backhoe had stopped working.
(Kevin Frayer / AFP/Getty Images / November 17, 2013)

More corpses lie in the streets or are still covered by rubble. Communal burial pits are the fastest way to avoid the spread of disease. Dead animals also need to be disposed of. Lord have mercy.

anil
17 Nov 13,, 12:18
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/3987/yef3.jpg

Mass evacuate where? Into the sea?

Minskaya
17 Nov 13,, 13:22
Mass evacuate where? Into the sea?
Many deaths could have been avoided simply by evacuating to the leeward side of the islands.



16 November 2013

As the Philippines grapples with the devastating aftermath of Typhoon Haiyan, Filipinos are asking why the country wasn’t better prepared to deal with the super storm. Government officials claim they were ready, broadcasting warnings of a potential 20-foot storm surge on the hour, starting two days before the typhoon hit.

Jerry Yaokasin, Tacloban's vice mayor, told Reuters that "some people just didn't believe us because it was so sunny. Some were even laughing." Many local men reportedly stayed in their homes to protect their belongings from looters. "People were warned about the storm surge," said Toby Monsod, an economics professor at the University of the Philippines in Manila. "Though, many probably thought that it would be one meter high, not five. This storm was off the scales," she told NBC News. Many are now blaming not just the devastating winds, but the flimsy construction of homes and buildings in the Philippines – and the years of government corruption which prevented the building of anything better. Even Monsod admitted that lessons need to be learned if the Philippines is to avoid – or at least limit – such devastating loss during future typhoons. "Historically, Filipinos adapt to the climate," she said. "They get through the storms and rebuild if they have to. But this is not sustainable in the long run."

Antonio Lilles is a residential home builder in Manila who has spent the past week like most Filipinos – glued to his cellphone, accounting for family members and making sure friends and employees are safe. He's also watched every video clip he could find on TV and YouTube of Super Typhoon Haiyan, one of the most devastating storms ever to hit land. Lilles says he was shocked to see Alfred Romualdez, the mayor of Tacloban – the worst-hit city within the disaster zone – telling the BBC that he and his family decided to ride out the storm in their sea-level beach house. "What really angers me is that, if the mayor didn't think seriously about evacuating Tacloban himself, I assume he didn't ask his [220,000] people to evacuate either and seek higher ground," Lilles said. He noticed the rolling hills in the background of many of the apocalyptic images. "Why didn't people, especially car owners, drive up the slopes or away from the coast? It must mean they didn't know about the 15-foot tsunami heading their way, or just didn't care."

In the week leading up to the storm, there were nationally televised hearings about accusations that President Benigno Aquino III had diverted more than $500 million in funds earmarked for infrastructure improvements to buy off key senators' loyalty. Aquino has strongly denied the allegations.
Source (http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/16/21477014-why-wasnt-the-philippines-better-prepared-for-the-typhoon-corruption-shoddy-buildings-to-blame)

Minskaya
17 Nov 13,, 15:29
The grim preliminary numbers:



11.17.2013

The storm
Typhoon Haiyan, known locally as Yolanda, was historic in its scope, with experts including NASA concluding it may be the most powerful tropical cyclone to ever make landfall. "It is the most powerful storm ever to make landfall,” Weather Channel lead meteorologist Michael Palmer told NBC News. “It is as strong a typhoon as you can get, basically.”

370 miles: That was the width of Typhoon Haiyan as it surged through the Philippines with sustained winds of 195 mph, and gusts reaching 235 mph.
6: The number of times Haiyan made Philippine landfall on Nov. 8.
17 feet: Height of the storm surge in Tacloban, the biggest city in the hardest-hit central Philippines, where some of the worst flooding was recorded.
27 inches: That was the most rainfall recorded by NASA’s Tropical Rainfall Measuring Mission (TRMM), on the southeast corner of the island of Leyte, during the storm's passage.

The human impact
13 million people have been affected by the typhoon, according to a situation report by OCHA on Saturday. The Philippine government says 9.8 million have been affected in 44 provinces, 539 municipalities and 56 cities. Of those affected, 4.9 million are children; 1.5 million are children under the age of five who are at risk of Global Acute Malnutrition (GAM), a measurement of nutritional status used to assess the severity of a humanitarian crisis.
The U.N. said Thursday that the death toll from the monster typhoon had reached 4,200. The Philippine government disputes this figure and has reported 3,637 deaths as of Saturday, up from 2,360.
2 Americans have been identified among the dead, according to the U.S. State Department.
12,501: The number of individuals injured, according to the Philippine disaster council.
1,186 are still missing, according to the council.
3 million people have been displaced, with 371,000 people currently living in 1,086 evacuation centers and 2.7 million people displaced elsewhere. Over 70 percent of the displaced are in the six adjacent provinces of Aklan, Antique, Capiz, Guimaras, Iloilo and Negros.
2.5 million people are in need of food assistance, according to U.N. estimates.
360,000: The number of pregnant and lactating women who need specialized services for prenatal, postnatal, child health, health promotion and family planning services.

Infrastructure
494,611 homes have been damaged following the typhoon (248,176 destroyed and 246,435 damaged), according to the disaster council.
628 schools sustained damaged, excluding in Eastern and Western Samar provinces, which have not reported yet, according to OCHA.

Aid and assistance
375,795 people have been assisted through food distribution, including rice, high-energy biscuits and canned goods as of Friday, according to OCHA.
400,000: The number of gallons of freshwater the U.S. Navy aircraft carrier USS George Washington can produce in a day.

Funding
$300 million: The amount the United Nations appealed for the Haiyan Action Plan to provide supplies and services to those affected by the typhoon.
So far, $81 million has been contributed by donors, including United Nations member states and the private sector, including more than $20 million from the United States.
Source (http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/17/21496134-typhoon-haiyan-a-crisis-by-the-numbers?lite)

Parihaka
17 Nov 13,, 17:44
I should have been clearer. Typhoon Haiyan is the largest velocity tropical storm on record.

According to the BBC et al yes. According to PAGASA, not so much
34364
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_speed#Highest_speed

Minskaya
17 Nov 13,, 18:34
According to the BBC et al yes. According to PAGASA, not so much
I'm not about to split meteorological hairs. Suffice to say that Haiyan was a very substantial storm.

Minskaya
17 Nov 13,, 18:36
I have to go. There are numerous tornado s touching down here.

bigross86
17 Nov 13,, 18:51
Stay safe!

Parihaka
17 Nov 13,, 19:35
Keep safe Minnie

Officer of Engineers
17 Nov 13,, 19:44
What this girl would not do to get a free ride to Oz. Say hello to the Wizard.

Minskaya
18 Nov 13,, 07:16
At Least 6 Dead, 54 Hurt After Tornadoes Rip Through Illinois | NBC Chicago (http://www.nbcchicago.com/weather/stories/Stormy-Weather-in-Store-for-Chicago-Area-232188631.html)

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1520020.1384727473!/img/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/aptopix-severe-weather-il.JPG
Tornado aftermath in Washington, Illinois

Thanks for the well-wishes. I am fine. Although most of the tornadic activity was in central and southern Illinois, two tornado's struck just to the south of me. Winds here where I live were clocked at 70 mph and the rainstorms were quite robust. Officials stopped the Chicago Bears football game at Soldier Field and evacuated the players and fans. Before the game could continue later, the goalposts had to be straightened out. The winds had twisted them. Trees and power lines went down in my area, but no fatalities. The central and southern counties really got hit hard.

tbm3fan
18 Nov 13,, 17:55
Many deaths could have been avoided simply by evacuating to the leeward side of the islands.


Source (http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/16/21477014-why-wasnt-the-philippines-better-prepared-for-the-typhoon-corruption-shoddy-buildings-to-blame)


Having made countless trips to the Philippines over the last 24 years there is one thing any foreigner, especially a Westerner, needs to learn. If one wants to live there, as many foreigners do, you need to learn this if you want to maintain your sanity in your years there. This is truly no joke as I have experienced it first hand myself until I was enlightened.

You only get to ask one "why" question per day. You will want to ask many "why" questions every day everywhere but to stay sane you can only ask one. This related to me by many ex-pats and boy are they ever right. So wondering why they didn't do this or do that violates the one "why" question for a day.

So if anyone is thinking of asking me why this is then remember you only get one "why" question that relates to Filipino thinking.

winton
19 Nov 13,, 07:38
Many deaths could have been avoided simply by evacuating to the leeward side of the islands.


Source (http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/16/21477014-why-wasnt-the-philippines-better-prepared-for-the-typhoon-corruption-shoddy-buildings-to-blame)

I wonder whether the phillipines will learn anything from this disaster. Change building codes, town planning, emergency response, etc??

tbm3fan
19 Nov 13,, 07:40
I wonder whether the phillipines will learn anything from this disaster. Change building codes, town planning, emergency response, etc??

Is Santa young, slim and blonde?

winton
19 Nov 13,, 08:56
Is Santa young, slim and blonde?

No, but Santa is the US of A.

Doktor
19 Nov 13,, 09:36
Having made countless trips to the Philippines over the last 24 years there is one thing any foreigner, especially a Westerner, needs to learn. If one wants to live there, as many foreigners do, you need to learn this if you want to maintain your sanity in your years there. This is truly no joke as I have experienced it first hand myself until I was enlightened.

You only get to ask one "why" question per day. You will want to ask many "why" questions every day everywhere but to stay sane you can only ask one. This related to me by many ex-pats and boy are they ever right. So wondering why they didn't do this or do that violates the one "why" question for a day.

So if anyone is thinking of asking me why this is then remember you only get one "why" question that relates to Filipino thinking.

Is it one 'why' per day per group or per group member?
Are the answers to those whys based on any logic at all (assume not, due to your stay sane comment)?

No why on my side there :Dancing-Banana:

Doktor
19 Nov 13,, 09:38
No, but Santa is the US of A.

What has changed this time?

winton
19 Nov 13,, 09:40
What has changed this time?

China

Doktor
19 Nov 13,, 09:48
China

In terms of city planning and evac response?

winton
19 Nov 13,, 10:01
In terms of city planning and evac response?

Thats the question.

perhaps the phillipine govt could use less military aid and more civilian aid in terms of city planning and evac technologies.

Being able to recover quickly from disasters like this improves national security.

Doktor
19 Nov 13,, 12:43
You do realize that US military aid to Philippines 4% of the total aid to the country, right?

tbm3fan
19 Nov 13,, 18:18
Is it one 'why' per day per group or per group member?
Are the answers to those whys based on any logic at all (assume not, due to your stay sane comment)?

No why on my side there :Dancing-Banana:

You're trying to make me lose my sanity aren't you? You must be part...:confu:

tbm3fan
21 Nov 13,, 05:41
Posted on one of my message boards about the Philippines. An American, who lives in Hawaii, but happened to be on Leyte at the time of the typhoon no doubt visiting wife's family.


TACLOBAN, PHILIPPINES – It was a ride to never forget. Escaping hell on earth in the belly of giant US transport, stuffed in like sardines in what felt like a record - 683 passengers sitting cross legged on the floor of a C-17 cargo aircraft.

It was a Monday morning in the infamous, urine soaked Tacloban Airport in the Philippines, a dumping ground of desperate humanity attempting to flee one of the worst disasters ever – a combination typhoon-tsunami that wiped out homes in 36 provinces and inundated some 125 miles of coastline.

A U.S. Marine led us onto the chaotic tarmac, littered with giant pallets of food, trucks, planes, helicopters and of course people – thousands still trying to leave. Stray dogs moved among the masses, looking for scraps of food and high energy biscuits from the mountains of boxes of aid stacked throughout the airport. Planes landed every few minutes from around the world – Sweden, Singapore, Malaysia, Australia – loaded with supplies. Most were the C-130 – an American-built cargo plane. Once offloaded, the U.S. and Philippine C-130s were loaded with evacuees – and sent either to Manilla or Cebu, the country’s second largest city.

Each C-130 was crammed with about 120 people. After more than 400 flights, the US had evacuated roughly 4,000 from Tacloban.

But the C-130 isn’t large enough to transport the heavy equipment, like cargo trucks, backhoes and bulldozers needed now. For that the US Air Force brought in three Boeing C-17s, one the largest military transports in the world. It’s among the most successful planes ever built, doing the heavy lifting for the Air Force since 1993.

The plane is so big, it can’t fit on the tarmac – so the Marines escorted this odd assortment of passengers – international aid workers, journalists and a mass of hungry and homeless Filipinos onto the runway. We entered the jumbo jet on a long ramp into the cavernous bay. Jump seats on the side of the plane were reserved for women, *****ren and the injured.

The engines never shut down, so senior airman Samantha Holley yelled. She instructed everyone to sit down and put a cargo strap over our legs. “Move forward, move forward, move forward,” she screamed.

Everyone stunk. Since the typhoon, there’d been no running water. With high humidity, and 90 degree days, and no change of clothes, the cargo bay smelled like a heap of trash.

As the plane filed up, the hard steel floor began to hurt. You can only sit cross-legged so long before your legs begin to cramp. But by now, sitting shoulder to shoulder with some stranger, your knees in their back, there was no where to go.

After every inch of the cargo hold was jammed with passengers, the plane took off. It was too loud inside to talk, so everyone either looked down or closed their eyes. After a week here, we’d gotten at most two hours of sleep a night, usually on the concrete tarmac in the same clothes we arrived. Between the rain and the roar of arriving planes every few minutes, I am sure others didn’t have it any better. Exhausted, everyone was just happy to get out, especially the locals. They’d just been beaten and broken by a fierce storm, left with nothing but their life. Many didn’t know where they were going, but knew it was better than the smell of death and bloated corpses they left behind.

Half way through the trip, Holley connected her phone to the plane’s speaker system and suddenly music boomed into a cabin usually reserved for tanks and giant generators.

"I'm coming home. I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home."

The song sung by Skylar Grey energized the emotionally drained group. Some cried, some laughed, but for the first time since arriving I saw typhoon ravaged Filipino’s smile.

“Let the rain wash away all the pain of yesterday I know my kingdom awaits and they've forgiven my mistakes I'm coming home, I'm coming home. Tell the world I'm coming home.”

Airman Holley began to wave her arms to the music, and the many in crowded plane followed suit. A stadium wave inside a C-17. It had to be a first!

The plane normally carried 102 paratroopers, or 120 soldiers. It once carried Keiko the killer whale to Iceland. But this was a record for the C-17. The world record for a single flight passenger load is 1,122, held by a stripped down 747.

After an hour, we landed effortlessly in Manila. The plane erupted in cheers. As people began to exit, a man injured in the flood, couldn’t get down the stairs. Two Air Force pilots from the 535th Airlift Squadron caught him as he fell, and carried him to an awaiting bus.

After leaving here, the C-17 out of Hawaii would go to Japan, load more heavy equipment and return to Tacloban, where the exodus from hell would continue

Oracle
21 Nov 13,, 14:55
May all R.I.P.

An interesting article in Foreign Policy - The Pivot Starts Now (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/11/15/typhoon_haiyan_philippines_china_us)


Typhoon Haiyan struck the Philippines on Nov. 8, killing thousands, affecting millions, and leaving hundreds of thousands of Filipinos desperate for help. A natural disaster of that magnitude requires a massive relief effort, and the United States took the lead: dispatching the aircraft carrier USS George Washington, distributing food and water, and maneuvering rescuers and supplies to remote areas. The U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) pledged more than $22 million in assistance.

U.S. allies soon followed. Japan offered $30 million in emergency relief, along with roughly 1,000 soldiers to help deliver the aid, on top of ongoing assistance programs, such as $20 million through the Asian Development Bank. Australia pledged $10 million, South Korea $5 million, and when Britain's carrier the HMS Illustrious arrives on Nov. 24, it will begin delivering some $30 million in relief supplies. But China, the region's rising power, is noteworthy for its stinginess. Beijing originally pledged $100,000, increasing that to a still-paltry $1.6 million on Nov. 14.

Since former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton announced the rebalance to Asia in late 2011, many in the region have doubted America's ability to sustain the level of its operations in the Pacific. In October, for example, President Barack Obama's absence from two prominent Asian meetings due to the crisis in Washington over the government shutdown allowed Beijing to steal the spotlight. But when it comes to global crises, including natural disasters, it is still the United States -- even war wary, reputationally challenged, fiscally indebted, and politically gridlocked -- that takes the leading role. The response to Haiyan could be a turning point for the United States in Asia: an opportunity to re-up the pivot, and to pour cold water on the narrative of a dominant China.

That's not to say China isn't trying to play a more assertive role in the region. Since taking office in November 2012, Chinese President Xi Jinping has focused on maintaining order and economic growth at home while reducing external conflicts that could impede China's rise. Xi and his colleagues envision their country eventually supplanting the United States as the world's largest economy and sharing -- at a minimum -- responsibility for the Asia-Pacific region. China is emphasizing its periphery, particularly mainland Southeast Asia; in October, Xi announced plans to create and fund an "Asian infrastructure bank."

But China still fails at building soft power in the region. In early November, Chinese scholars and even officials emphasized to my colleagues the tiered levels of Chinese friends and partners. Countries that support China diplomatically or bring wealth to China, they said, are given preferential treatment -- almost like international relations as one big fundraising tribute. Because tensions are high with Japan over disputed islands in the East China Sea, and with the Philippines over disputed territory in the South China Sea, Beijing withholds cooperation and support from those two nations, instead doling out rewards to those countries most willing to work closely with China. Although this approach sometimes mutes regional criticism, it tends to fail at persuading neighbors that a more potent China will look after their interests.

And this is where the U.S. rebalancing, or "pivot" to Asia comes in. The region has generally viewed the pivot in military terms, as a reassurance of U.S. presence in Asia, and as a counterweight to Chinese pressure and coercion. But as the distribution of world power continues to shift from West to East, the United States can also use the pivot to help build an inclusive, rules-based order in Asia. An open trading regime must be part of that. But to foster China's potential as a force for good, the United States and its allies need to integrate China into this order.

Instituting a common response to humanitarian disasters is a good place for China and the United States to start. Holding back assistance to neighbors because they defend their core national interests against a more powerful neighbor who occupies a disputed area -- as China does with the Scarborough Shoal in the South China Sea -- goes against international norms. If the United States can protect universal rights such as freedom of the seas and promote more effective regional security cooperation, it will continue to be a great power that is welcome throughout the region.

China appears eager to cooperate with the United States on disaster relief. The two sides have shared detailed lessons learned in responding to domestic disasters, including Hurricane Katrina in 2005 and the 2008 Sichuan earthquake that killed roughly 87,000 people. In June, the two countries cooperated with an Asian-wide humanitarian assistance and military medicine exercise, allowing China to showcase its photogenic military hospital ship, dubbed the "The Peace Ark." Unfortunately, that ship remains docked in a Chinese port. Adding to the irony, on Nov. 12, Chinese and U.S. troops participated in a joint humanitarian aid and disaster relief exercise in Hawaii, the exact time the Philippines needed urgent support. China under Xi wants a "new type of great power relationship" with the United States -- an invitation to further push China to cooperate on disaster relief.

This pays dividends for the United States domestically, as well. U.S. leadership in helping those in desperate need around the world is a forceful riposte to declinists, who ignore America's enduring and exceptional global role. Bipartisan support for U.S. humanitarian efforts is a hopeful instance of policymakers pulling together to achieve greatness.

Obama is seeking more than $4.1 billion for the fiscal year 2014 for humanitarian assistance. Humanitarian aid should not be used as a political tool, but that doesn't deny the reputational advantages of doing good and the hits from sitting idle during a crisis. It's a lesson China is learning right now.

winton
22 Nov 13,, 10:23
Obama is seeking more than $4.1 billion for the fiscal year 2014 for humanitarian assistance. Humanitarian aid should not be used as a political tool, but that doesn't deny the reputational advantages of doing good and the hits from sitting idle during a crisis. It's a lesson China is learning right now.

whats the likely hood of it not being used as a political tool and other forms of diplomatic pressure on the phillipines. Next to zilch.

The typhoon has left the phillipines in a precarious state. They will be begging for this aid.

Dreadnought
22 Nov 13,, 14:10
In reply to winton..........

The Philipines has always been a close ally of the US since before WWII the US has looked after them and has shared a good relationship. This was cemented when the US liberated the Phillipines during the WWII Pacific Island hoping campaign that forced Japans retreat across the Pacific.

MacAuthur himself argued with both the Roosevelt and Nimitz before the invasion that the Philipines must not be bypassed during the island campaign.

MacAurthur regarded them as Americans in need of American help before any other liberations were to take place. He got his wish. And the Philipinos helped greatly with intelligence on Japanese ship and troop movements. It cost many their lives.

He didnt break his promise to the people of the Philipines.

History tells the rest....................

The Philippines Campaign October 20, 1944 - August 15, 1945
by Jason McDonald on August 7, 2011 - 11:33am

The Philippines had suffered under the Japanese occupation. A highly effective guerilla campaign controlled sixty percent of the islands, mostly jungle and mountain areas. MacArthur had supplied them by submarine, and sent reinforcements and officers. Filipinos remained loyal to the United States, partly because of the American guarantee of independence, and also because the Japanese had pressed large numbers of Filipinos into work details and even put young Filipino women into brothels.

MacArthur returned to the Philippines in force on October 20, 1944. He waded in with Philippine President Sergio Osmeña, restaging the landing a second time for the newsreel cameras. The US Army forces met resistance, but steadily advanced, until the landings at Ormoc on December 7, 1944. Most of the fighting was at sea during the Battle of Leyte Gulf.

Ormoc saw the widespread use of kamikazes while the Americans ran into fortified positions and heavy artillery. MacArthur fought north through the Philippines all through the Fall of 1944, reaching Manila and the main island of Luzon in January 1945. The initial landing in Lingayen Gulf was unopposed, sparing the Japanese a prolonged bombardment as they retreated inland. The Japanese had a network of caves, pillboxes, and artillery. The defenders hoped to prevent an invasion of the home islands by offering a stiff resistance in the Philippines.

MacArthur entered a shattered Manila, which had been destroyed by the retreating Japanese. Japanese Imperial Army General Tomoyuki Yamashita had ordered a withdrawal on Manila without unnecessary violence, but 19,000 soldiers under Vice Admiral Sanji Iwabuchi were encircled. Most of Manila was taken in hand-to-hand combat block by block. The retreating Japanese killed civilians in vicious reprisals. They turned on the civilian population of Manila, killing 100,000. Almost all the Japanese were killed or commited suicide, including Iwabuchi.

General Yamashita retreated to the Philippine hills, taking 65,000 soldiers with him. He held out until the end of the war. MacArthur declared the Philippines secure on June 30, 1945, but fighting continued until August 15.

Yamashita was hanged in Manila for war crimes in 1946.The war crimes trials hastily blamed Yamashita, and he was convicted.

The Philippines put off rebuilding to serve as the staging area for the invasion of the Home Islands. When the war ended, the United States made extensive payments to the Philippines. The United States granted independence to the Philippines on July 4, 1946.

The Philippines Campaign October 20, 1944 - August 15, 1945 | The World War II Multimedia Database (http://www.worldwar2database.com/html/philip44.htm)


Im not sure why you believe the US would use this as some sort of stick/carrot issue with the Phillipines when history has shown nothing less then a close relationship and sacrifice on both sides.

If you are in need of any further proof of this or links I would be more then happy to supply them for you to educate yourself on their relationship for the last 8 decades.;)

winton
22 Nov 13,, 15:18
In reply to winton..........

The Philipines has always been a close ally of the US since before WWII the US has looked after them and has shared a good relationship. This was cemented when the US liberated the Phillipines during the WWII Pacific Island hoping campaign that forced Japans retreat across the Pacific.

The phillipines was a colonial outpost of America, up until independance. The people suffered greatly under its rule as US troops were sent over there to pacify the natives. Read up the history pre WW2. the US did not liberate the country, they merely reclaimed what they thought was rightfully theres.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_War

The phillipinos suffered greatly under both american rule and japanese rule. The phillipinos have not forgotten all this.

I wouldnt say the US is an Ally as Australia is an ally. I would say that the phillipines just falls under the US sphere of influence for better or worse. relations are cordial and thats it. If the US can help in its dispute with China then it'll be used for such purpose. However, the US weren't much help with scarbourough shoal, and there is too much ambiguity with their commitment to the mutual defence treaty. In short the philiipines cannot rely on the US.

So its not surprising if the phillos accept the americans with open arms, they need to play one power off against another for national interest.

Dreadnought
22 Nov 13,, 15:26
The phillipines was a colonial outpost of America, up until independance. The people suffered greatly under its rule as US troops were sent over there to pacify the natives. Read up the history pre WW2. the US did not liberate the country, they merely reclaimed what they thought was rightfully theres.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_War

The phillipinos suffered greatly under both american rule and japanese rule. The phillipinos have not forgotten all this.

I wouldnt say the US is an Ally as Australia is an ally. I would say that the phillipines just falls under the US sphere of influence for better or worse. relations are cordial and thats it. If the US can help in its dispute with China then it'll be used for such purpose. However, the US weren't much help with scarbourough shoal, and there is too much ambiguity with their commitment to the mutual defence treaty. In short the philiipines cannot rely on the US.

So its not surprising if the phillos accept the americans with open arms, they need to play one power off against another for national interest.

History Pre WWII........

Pre-WWII Events
The United States seized the Philippine Islands from Spain in May 1898 after Admiral Dewey’s victory in Manila Bay, during the Spanish-American war. Formal title to the Islands was granted the United States by the Treaty Of Paris in December of that year. By the acquisition of the Philippines the United States in one step advanced its frontiers nearly 7,000 miles across the Pacific Ocean and "gave hostages to fortune in a sense which the American people have never fully realized." Possession of the Islands made the United States an Asiatic power, with full responsibility for maintaining the peace and status quo in that area.

The government of the Islands was placed in the hands first of a Philippine commission and later of a governor general, both appointed by the President of the United States. The Filipinos, once their
opposition ended, were allowed an increasing large measure of self-rule and elected members of the lower house of the legislature. In 1913, they were granted free trade with the United States, and three years later were permitted limited autonomy. Provisions were then made in 1934 to recognize Philippine independence after a ten-year transitional period. During these ten years, the United States would be allowed to maintain military and other reservations and armed forces. Comprising almost 7,100 islands and islets, the Philippine Archepalego lies approximately 500 miles off the Asiatic mainland and extends 1,150 miles almost due north and south from Formosa to Borneo. Strategically situated in the geographic heart of the Far East, the Islands are centrally located in relation to Japan, China, Burma, French Indochina, Thailand, Malaya, and the Netherlands East Indies. They lie athwart the trade routes leading from Japan and China through the South China Sea to Southeast Asia and the rich supplies of oil and minerals in the Indies.

Before the establishment of the commonwealth Government in 1935, no effort was made to prepare the Philippines for their own defense. The United States had assumed all obligations for national defense and maintained a garrison in the Islands for this purpose. This garrison numbered 10,000 men, half of whom were Philippine Scouts, a U.S. Army unit in which the enlisted men, with some exceptions, were native Filipinos and most of the officers were American. The Philippine Constabulary, first organized in 1901, was the national police force, but by training and organization had a military character. In 1935 an effort was made to organize a national army. General MacArthur, Majs. Dwight Eisenhower and James B. Ord prepared a plan to provide the Philippine Commonwealth with a system of national security by 1946; the date the Islands would become independent. This plan called for a small regular army, a small air force, and a fleet of motor torpedo boats to repel an enemy landing.

In the middle of 1941, international developments had heightened the tension between the United States and Japan, and made the defense of the Philippine Islands an urgent problem, and then with one smashing blow, the Japanese made obsolete the carefully plans of the defense in event of war in the Pacific in an attack of Pearl Harbor. A few hours later Japanese aircraft attacked the Philippines with a similar devastating blow.

In the midst of all the confusion at home and in the Pacific, the heroic defense of the Philippines stood out like a beacon of hope for the future. There we proved that the Japanese soldier was from invincible. Although his vastly superior forces finally took over the Philippine Islands, the American and Philippine forces under Generals MacArthur and Wainwright exacted a terrible toll of the Japanese forces during the Fil-American stubborn defense of Bataan, Corregidor, and other areas of the Philippine Islands, before our half-starved, malaria-ridden garrison was finally forced to capitulate on May 10, 1942.

It is, of course, a story of defeat; and in defeat there is a natural human tendency to hunt for scapegoats. But to do that here would be merely to delude ourselves. The mistakes that were made at the beginning of the Philippine campaign, as well as the defeat that inevitably terminated it, were all implicit in the situation existing there immediately before the war. The poverty in modern weapons, or in more than one case the actual abject lack of them, had its roots in the situation at home, and for this situation, the people of the United States must hold themselves accountable.

The situation in the Philippines was a close reflection of the situation at home. Undeniably, there were officers stationed on Luzon during the prewar years who only wanted to let things ride along in the old, familiar, easy grooves. Many of them had completely failed to digest the lessons of the war in Europe, nor were they willing to accept opinions of other men who clearly foresaw what was going to happen when the Japanese chose to strike. Too often we were willing to elect legislators who were accustomed to bind America by the limits of their own constituencies and pinch pennies at the expense of the national safety. In the last analysis, it was such "economy" that was responsible for the pitiful and desperate lacks that reached their consummation on Bataan, Corregidor, and other parts of the Philippines.

The men sent out to rectify the situation in the final months had neither means nor time. The reinforcements and material rushed to them were not enough, arrived too late, or did not reach the Philippines at all. One convoy, caught at sea by the outbreak of hostilities, had to be diverted to Australia. It not mean as a "glorious chapter" in our history. Glory is mostly a civilian word and unhappily it is too often used to cover up deficiencies. In the beginning of the war we went hero hunting, if we did not have planes and guns, at least we could have heroes. So we had to have heroes, and we began to think of Bataan and Corregidor in terms of the courage of our men, and the two names have become symbols in the popular mind for something approaching victory.

Increasingly, however, historians reviewing those fateful days, realized that the defense of the Philippines against the overwhelming power of the Japanese Armed Forces, bought for our country added time for which to mobilize our strength and return for final victory. Without that time, the outcome of the war in the Pacific might have been disastrously different, and the course of modern events would have taken a turn from we would have suffered for a lengthy period. The bravery and heroic effort of those defending the Philippines helped America triumph in World War II and preserve the way of life that we hold so dear.
Those who fought so courageously in defending the Philippines subsequently became prisoners of war of the Japanese military for a period up to three years and five months and subjected to conditions that were atrocious and unbelievable. These heroic troops were forced to work as slave laborers at numerous Japanese industrial sites in which armaments were being manufactured to be used against American troops in the Far East.

Records of the United States government show that the Japanese military had 27,465 American prisoners of war at various locations during World War II. A total of 11,107 (40%) died while interned in Japanese prisoner of war facilities. Only 16,358 American prisoners of war were alive at the end of World War II. The deaths of American prisoners of war in German interment facilities amounted to only 1.1% during World War

Pre-WWII (http://philippine-defenders.lib.wv.us/html/prewar.html)

Dreadnought
22 Nov 13,, 15:33
The phillipines was a colonial outpost of America, up until independance. The people suffered greatly under its rule as US troops were sent over there to pacify the natives. Read up the history pre WW2. the US did not liberate the country, they merely reclaimed what they thought was rightfully theres.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_War

The phillipinos suffered greatly under both american rule and japanese rule. The phillipinos have not forgotten all this.

I wouldnt say the US is an Ally as Australia is an ally. I would say that the phillipines just falls under the US sphere of influence for better or worse. relations are cordial and thats it. If the US can help in its dispute with China then it'll be used for such purpose. However, the US weren't much help with scarbourough shoal, and there is too much ambiguity with their commitment to the mutual defence treaty. In short the philiipines cannot rely on the US.

So its not surprising if the phillos accept the americans with open arms, they need to play one power off against another for national interest.

*In the future you might want to use another source of reference other then Wiki. Wiki is world renound knowing that any Tom, Dick or Harry can edit any entry at any given time and not be accurate.;)

Dreadnought
22 Nov 13,, 15:42
Considering the fact that the Philipines were under Spanish rule until the US won the Spanish American War it was ceded to them in the Treaty of Paris. Legally.

If you want to read prior (from the Spanish American War foreward)
The Philippine-American War, 1899 (http://history.state.gov/milestones/1899-1913/war)

Dreadnought
22 Nov 13,, 15:46
So its not surprising if the phillos accept the americans with open arms, they need to play one power off against another for national interest.

There is no other power in the Philipines to play off one to another.;)

Dreadnought
22 Nov 13,, 15:57
Spanish Colonization (1521 - 1898)

Early Spanish expeditions

Ferdinand Magellan arrived in the Philippines in 1521.

The Philippine islands first came to the attention of Europeans with the Spanish expedition around the world led by Portuguese explorer Ferdinand Magellan in 1521. Magellan landed on the island of Cebu, claiming the lands for Spain and naming them Islas de San Lazaro. He set up friendly relations with some of the local chieftains and converted some of them to Roman Catholicism. However, Magellan was killed by natives, led by a local chief named Lapu-Lapu, who go up against foreign domination.

Over the next several decades, other Spanish expeditions were send off to the islands. In 1543, Ruy López de Villalobos led an expedition to the islands and gave the name Las Islas Filipinas (after Philip II of Spain) to the islands of Samar and Leyte. The name would later be given to the entire archipelago.

Spanish colonization

The invasion of the Filipinos by Spain did not begin in earnest until 1564, when another expedition from New Spain, commanded by Miguel López de Legaspi, arrived. Permanent Spanish settlement was not established until 1565 when an expedition led by Miguel López de Legazpi, the first Governor-General of the Philippines, arrived in Cebu from New Spain. Spanish leadership was soon established over many small independent communities that previously had known no central rule. Six years later, following the defeat of the local Muslim ruler, Legazpi established a capital at Manila, a location that offered the outstanding harbor of Manila Bay, a large population, and closeness to the sufficient food supplies of the central Luzon rice lands. Manila became the center of Spanish civil, military, religious, and commercial activity in the islands. By 1571, when López de Legaspi established the Spanish city of Manila on the site of a Moro town he had conquered the year before, the Spanish grip in the Philippines was secure which became their outpost in the East Indies, in spite of the opposition of the Portuguese, who desired to maintain their monopoly on East Asian trade. The Philippines was administered as a province of New Spain (Mexico) until Mexican independence (1821).

Manila revolted the attack of the Chinese pirate Limahong in 1574. For centuries before the Spanish arrived the Chinese had traded with the Filipinos, but evidently none had settled permanently in the islands until after the conquest. Chinese trade and labor were of great importance in the early development of the Spanish colony, but the Chinese came to be feared and hated because of their increasing numbers, and in 1603 the Spanish murdered thousands of them (later, there were lesser massacres of the Chinese).

The Spanish governor, made a viceroy in 1589, ruled with the counsel of the powerful royal audiencia. There were frequent uprisings by the Filipinos, who disliked the encomienda system. By the end of the 16th cent. Manila had become a leading commercial center of East Asia, carrying on a prosperous trade with China, India, and the East Indies. The Philippines supplied some wealth (including gold) to Spain, and the richly loaded galleons plying between the islands and New Spain were often attacked by English freebooters. There was also trouble from other quarters, and the period from 1600 to 1663 was marked by continual wars with the Dutch, who were laying the foundations of their rich empire in the East Indies, and with Moro pirates. One of the most difficult problems the Spanish faced was the defeat of the Moros. Irregular campaigns were conducted against them but without conclusive results until the middle of the 19th century. As the power of the Spanish Empire diminished, the Jesuit orders became more influential in the Philippines and obtained great amounts of property.

Occupation of the islands was accomplished with relatively little bloodshed, partly because most of the population (except the Muslims) offered little armed battle initially. A significant problem the Spanish faced was the invasion of the Muslims of Mindanao and the Sulu Archipelago. The Muslims, in response to attacks on them from the Spanish and their native allies, raided areas of Luzon and the Visayas that were under Spanish colonial control. The Spanish conducted intermittent military campaigns against the Muslims, but without conclusive results until the middle of the 19th century.

Church and state were inseparably linked in Spanish policy, with the state assuming responsibility for religious establishments. One of Spain's objectives in colonizing the Philippines was the conversion of Filipinos to Catholicism. The work of conversion was facilitated by the absence of other organized religions, except for Islam, which predominated in the south. The pageantry of the church had a wide plea, reinforced by the incorporation of Filipino social customs into religious observances. The eventual outcome was a new Christian majority of the main Malay lowland population, from which the Muslims of Mindanao and the upland tribal peoples of Luzon remained detached and separated.

At the lower levels of administration, the Spanish built on traditional village organization by co-opting local leaders. This system of indirect rule helped create in a Filipino upper class, called the principalía, who had local wealth, high status, and other privileges. This achieved an oligarchic system of local control. Among the most significant changes under Spanish rule was that the Filipino idea of public use and ownership of land was replaced with the concept of private ownership and the granting of titles on members of the principalía.

The Philippines was not profitable as a colony, and a long war with the Dutch in the 17th century and intermittent conflict with the Muslims nearly bankrupted the colonial treasury. Colonial income derived mainly from entrepôt trade: The Manila Galleons sailing from Acapulco on the west coast of Mexico brought shipments of silver bullion and minted coin that were exchanged for return cargoes of Chinese goods. There was no direct trade with Spain.

Decline of Spanish rule

Spanish rule on the Philippines was briefly interrupted in 1762, when British troops invaded and occupied the islands as a result of Spain's entry into the Seven Years' War. The Treaty of Paris in 1763 brought back Spanish rule and the British left in 1764. The brief British occupation weakened Spain's grip on power and sparked rebellions and demands for independence.

In 1781, Governor-General José Basco y Vargas founded the Economic Society of Friends of the Country. The Philippines by this time was administered directly from Spain. Developments in and out of the country helped to bring new ideas to the Philippines. The opening of the Suez Canal in 1869 cut travel time to Spain. This prompted the rise of the ilustrados, an enlightened Filipino upper class, since many young Filipinos were able to study in Europe.

Enlightened by the Propaganda Movement to the injustices of the Spanish colonial government and the "frailocracy", the ilustrados originally clamored for adequate representation to the Spanish Cortes and later for independence. José Rizal, the most celebrated intellectual and essential illustrado of the era, wrote the novels Noli Me Tangere and El Filibusterismo, which greatly inspired the movement for independence. The Katipunan, a secret society whose primary principle was that of overthrowing Spanish rule in the Philippines, was founded by Andrés Bonifacio who became its Supremo (leader).

The Philippine Revolution began in 1896. Rizal was concerned in the outbreak of the revolution and executed for treason in 1896. The Katipunan split into two groups, Magdiwang led by Andrés Bonifacio and Magdalo led by Emilio Aguinaldo. Conflict between the two revolutionary leaders ended in the execution or assassination of Bonifacio by Aguinaldo's soldiers. Aguinaldo agreed to a treaty with the Pact of Biak na Bato and Aguinaldo and his fellow revolutionaries were exiled to Hong Kong.

It was the opposition to the power of the clergy that in large measure brought about the rising attitude for independence. Spanish injustices, prejudice, and economic oppressions fed the movement, which was greatly inspired by the brilliant writings of José Rizal. In 1896 revolution began in the province of Cavite, and after the execution of Rizal that December, it spread throughout the major islands. The Filipino leader, Emilio Aguinaldo, achieved considerable success before a peace was patched up with Spain. The peace was short-lived, however, for neither side honored its agreements, and a new revolution was made when the Spanish-American War broke out in 1898.

The Spanish-American war started in 1898 after the USS Maine, sent to Cuba in connection with an attempt to arrange a peaceful resolution between Cuban independence ambitions and Spanish colonialism, was sunk in Havana harbor. After the U.S. naval victory led by Commodore George Dewey defeated the Spanish squadron at Manila Bay on May 1, 1898, the U.S. invited Aguinaldo to return to the Philippines, which he did on May 19, 1898, in the hope he would rally Filipinos against the Spanish colonial government. By the time U.S. land forces had arrived, the Filipinos had taken control of the entire island of Luzon, except for the walled city of Intramuros Manila, which they were besieging. On June 12, 1898, Aguinaldo declared the independence of the Philippines in Kawit, Cavite, establishing the First Philippine Republic under Asia's first democratic constitution. Their dreams of independence were crushed when the Philippines were transferred from Spain to the United States in the Treaty of Paris (1898), which closed the Spanish-American War.

Concurrently, a German squadron under Admiral Diedrichs arrived in Manila and declared that if the United States did not grab the Philippines as a colonial possession, Germany would. Since Spain and the U.S. ignored the Filipino representative, Felipe Agoncillo, during their negotiations in the Treaty of Paris, the Battle of Manila between Spain and the U.S. was alleged by some to be an attempt to exclude the Filipinos from the eventual occupation of Manila. Although there was substantial domestic opposition, the United States decided neither to return the Philippines to Spain, nor to allow Germany to take over the Philippines. Therefore, in addition to Guam and Puerto Rico, Spain was forced in the negotiations to hand over the Philippines to the U.S. in exchange for US$20,000,000.00, which the U.S. later claimed to be a "gift" from Spain. The first Philippine Republic rebelled against the U.S. occupation, resulting in the Philippine-American War (1899–1913).

Philippine History Spanish Colonization (http://www.philippinecountry.com/philippine_history/spanish_colonization.html)

winton
22 Nov 13,, 16:19
Considering the fact that the Philipines were under Spanish rule until the US won the Spanish American War it was ceded to them in the Treaty of Paris. Legally.

If you want to read prior (from the Spanish American War foreward)
The Philippine-American War, 1899 (http://history.state.gov/milestones/1899-1913/war)

I'm sure the phillipinos totally agree to it all, cause it was legal. The fact of the matter is, there was an insurrection because some of them wanted independance. Not ruled by america. more than a million died fighting Us colonial rule. Thats not very liberating.

winton
22 Nov 13,, 16:23
*In the future you might want to use another source of reference other then Wiki. Wiki is world renound knowing that any Tom, Dick or Harry can edit any entry at any given time and not be accurate.;)

yes, but the history of colonialism is not a pleasant one, no matter the actor.

The US got a nice juicy possession. There were some natives that had a problem with it. You deal with it. People die. alot of people die.

Bigfella
22 Nov 13,, 17:52
Unfortunately I am not in a position to hit the books on this, but I know enough to know you are both wrong:

*Dread: Filipinos fought hard to assert their independence against the Spanish. Like Cuba, they should have been allowed to keep it. Whatever the racist & repugnant imperialist 'legalities' of the transfer of sovereignty it overrode the interests of the only people whose opinions should have mattered - the people of the Philippines. The bloody war of conquest that followed is a genuine low point in US history.

*Winton: if I recall my Singlish properly the phrase for some of the stuff you are putting on this thread is 'talking cock'.

Yes, America did brutally conquer the Philippines at the start of the C20th, but most of the rest is fiction. A million dead? Give me a break. Perhaps several hundred thousand at most - a terrible enough figure, but nowhere near a million. As Dread pointed out, the US was in the process of giving the Philippines independence when the Japanese invaded. Look at who was paying MacArthur in 1941 - President Quezon. Look at what happened at the conclusion of the war - independence was granted as promised. A fair way from what you have been saying.

Of course, none of this is remotely relevant at the moment. You appear to have completely missed the point being made in the article oracle posted. it wasn't about the US getting a 'political tool' or 'diplomatic pressure'; it is about the US showing that not only does it have an ongoing and significant presence in the region; it is about the US emphasizing that it is not simply a military power, but also a dependable regional player.

Your comment about Scarborough Shoals shows just how badly you are missing the point here. The US isn't going to get dragged into a potential military conflict with anyone just because a regional ally is having a territorial dispute. The Philippines has a string of these running - two of them with US allies/friends. US intervention is a 'last resort'. That point has not even come close to being reached.

China missed a big chance here. By acting like a sulking adolescent at a time of such tragedy it sent a message to the region in the strongest possible way about the sort of regional power it is right now - one that is more interested in 'reward and punishment' than being a responsible regional power.

As I type this I am overlooking a road & light rail under construction in the middle of a African city that is worth considerably more than the entire aid package to the Philippines. Chinese attempts to wield 'soft power' are laughably crude. The military dictators of Myanmar preferred to share power with civilians than rely on Chinese support. African nations are busy taking every cent they can, but local resentments are bubbling & I would bet that China will not be getting back a fraction of what it hopes it will.

In the meantime a golden opportunity to start shifting regional perceptions has been blown. These things happen slowly & over time. Perhaps China will learn a lesson here. Perhaps.

cdude
22 Nov 13,, 18:07
Yeah, I think the US treats Cuba much better. Wait... Right, China has tried to assassinate that asshat Aquino several times, wait.

Oh, right. A million dead is seriously very different from several hundred thousand killed. Wait, is that maths?

And someone actually thinks it's "a golden opportunity to start shifting regional perceptions"... As if SEA people are 5 graders, some candy can make them happy no matter what. Get off your high horse because nobody buys your horseshit no more.


Unfortunately I am not in a position to hit the books on this, but I know enough to know you are both wrong:

*Dread: Filipinos fought hard to assert their independence against the Spanish. Like Cuba, they should have been allowed to keep it. Whatever the racist & repugnant imperialist 'legalities' of the transfer of sovereignty it overrode the interests of the only people whose opinions should have mattered - the people of the Philippines. The bloody war of conquest that followed is a genuine low point in US history.

*Winton: if I recall my Singlish properly the phrase for some of the stuff you are putting on this thread is 'talking cock'.

Yes, America did brutally conquer the Philippines at the start of the C20th, but most of the rest is fiction. A million dead? Give me a break. Perhaps several hundred thousand at most - a terrible enough figure, but nowhere near a million. As Dread pointed out, the US was in the process of giving the Philippines independence when the Japanese invaded. Look at who was paying MacArthur in 1941 - President Quezon. Look at what happened at the conclusion of the war - independence was granted as promised. A fair way from what you have been saying.

Of course, none of this is remotely relevant at the moment. You appear to have completely missed the point being made in the article oracle posted. it wasn't about the US getting a 'political tool' or 'diplomatic pressure'; it is about the US showing that not only does it have an ongoing and significant presence in the region; it is about the US emphasizing that it is not simply a military power, but also a dependable regional player.

Your comment about Scarborough Shoals shows just how badly you are missing the point here. The US isn't going to get dragged into a potential military conflict with anyone just because a regional ally is having a territorial dispute. The Philippines has a string of these running - two of them with US allies/friends. US intervention is a 'last resort'. That point has not even come close to being reached.

China missed a big chance here. By acting like a sulking adolescent at a time of such tragedy it sent a message to the region in the strongest possible way about the sort of regional power it is right now - one that is more interested in 'reward and punishment' than being a responsible regional power.

As I type this I am overlooking a road & light rail under construction in the middle of a African city that is worth considerably more than the entire aid package to the Philippines. Chinese attempts to wield 'soft power' are laughably crude. The military dictators of Myanmar preferred to share power with civilians than rely on Chinese support. African nations are busy taking every cent they can, but local resentments are bubbling & I would bet that China will not be getting back a fraction of what it hopes it will.

In the meantime a golden opportunity to start shifting regional perceptions has been blown. These things happen slowly & over time. Perhaps China will learn a lesson here. Perhaps.

winton
22 Nov 13,, 18:10
. A million dead? Give me a break. Perhaps several hundred thousand at most - a terrible enough figure, but nowhere near a million.


Thats the Wiki estimate for civilian deaths. Check it out yourself. Its at the high end of the death scale, but I think in cases where you have a colonial overlording it over the natives, you do tend to go with the most pessimistic figure. a few hundred thousand isn't something that makes it any better than a million.

Aid always comes with strings attached. usually favours or you owe me or you scratch my back etc. Its never for free. There is alway some obligation in the future.

I'll respond to your other points in another post.

tbm3fan
22 Nov 13,, 22:33
I'm sure the phillipinos totally agree to it all, cause it was legal. The fact of the matter is, there was an insurrection because some of them wanted independance. Not ruled by america. more than a million died fighting Us colonial rule. Thats not very liberating.

Where I go to look at the insurrection which covered 3 years. Wiki is a joke. Don't forget that civilians were killed by BOTH sides depending on which side they were cooperating with.

Philippine-American War, 1899-1902 | by Arnaldo Dumindin (http://philippineamericanwar.webs.com/)

winton
23 Nov 13,, 12:42
Where I go to look at the insurrection which covered 3 years. Wiki is a joke. Don't forget that civilians were killed by BOTH sides depending on which side they were cooperating with.

Philippine-American War, 1899-1902 | by Arnaldo Dumindin (http://philippineamericanwar.webs.com/)

and what where they killed for?

American domination over the phillipinos or an independant phillipines by the their own people for their own people.

tbm3fan
25 Nov 13,, 07:24
and what where they killed for?

American domination over the phillipinos or an independant phillipines by the their own people for their own people.


I've read the whole article. Have you in order to get your answer?

winton
25 Nov 13,, 08:26
I've read the whole article. Have you in order to get your answer?

Do you need to read anything to know that colonialization and its brutal crack down is wrong?

anyway, we are going way off topic.

The americans have sent their helicopters in and promised much aid. I hope that aid does not come with strings attached and that the phillipines will get it all in its entirety. History does not give me much hope as american tax payers will want a good return on their tax money.

Plenty of examples of hurricanes in cuba, and not much help from america. plenty of examples of aid being offered by other countries and the majority of it goes to NGOs and companies. Not much of it reaches the native or even the country. They are still left to rebuild their lives.

Look at Haiti.

Haiti earthquake: two years on, and just half of promised aid has been delivered | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/11/haiti-earthquake-promised-aid-not-delivered)

Its an indication of things to come for the phillipines. I'm pretty sure the phillipines are wise to this and make their next moves accordingly, but they are just absolutely unprepared for this, so they may have to take what they can get.

Doktor
25 Nov 13,, 09:04
The americans have sent their helicopters in and promised much aid. I hope that aid does not come with strings attached and that the phillipines will get it all in its entirety. History does not give me much hope as american tax payers will want a good return on their tax money.

Plenty of examples of hurricanes in cuba, and not much help from america. plenty of examples of aid being offered by other countries and the majority of it goes to NGOs and companies. Not much of it reaches the native or even the country. They are still left to rebuild their lives.

Look at Haiti.

Haiti earthquake: two years on, and just half of promised aid has been delivered | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/11/haiti-earthquake-promised-aid-not-delivered)

Its an indication of things to come for the phillipines. I'm pretty sure the phillipines are wise to this and make their next moves accordingly, but they are just absolutely unprepared for this, so they may have to take what they can get.

Can't tell you first hand about other places, but 50 years ago US aid came to my city without any strings attached. And that was in an officially socialistic country.

Watching the news about US relief efforts in other places compared to talks from people who were around here in 1963, it seems US aid had got many layers of bureaucracy over the decades, but it's also the first to arrive when needed.

tbm3fan
25 Nov 13,, 23:00
Do you need to read anything to know that colonialization and its brutal crack down is wrong?

anyway, we are going way off topic.



Nice to know since you are the one who took it off topic to begin with.

desertswo
25 Nov 13,, 23:14
Do you need to read anything to know that colonialization and its brutal crack down is wrong?

anyway, we are going way off topic.

The americans have sent their helicopters in and promised much aid. I hope that aid does not come with strings attached and that the phillipines will get it all in its entirety. History does not give me much hope as american tax payers will want a good return on their tax money.

Plenty of examples of hurricanes in cuba, and not much help from america. plenty of examples of aid being offered by other countries and the majority of it goes to NGOs and companies. Not much of it reaches the native or even the country. They are still left to rebuild their lives.

Look at Haiti.

Haiti earthquake: two years on, and just half of promised aid has been delivered | World news | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/jan/11/haiti-earthquake-promised-aid-not-delivered)

Its an indication of things to come for the phillipines. I'm pretty sure the phillipines are wise to this and make their next moves accordingly, but they are just absolutely unprepared for this, so they may have to take what they can get.

If you were half as intelligent as you seem to think you are, you'd be dangerous. The fact that you even made this statement tells me that you know very little about the Filipino people and their relationship with the US. I'm pretty sure most here with REAL knowledge of the relationship would tell you that the relationship is pretty warm. Americans are always welcome there, and the same is true in the reciprocal. Large portions of the US military are populated by Philippine nationals and Filipino-Americans, and have been since before WWII, and trust me, they all aren't "mess boys" which is what I assume you have in mind. All of my best electricians were Filipinos, hands down. Large amounts of US capital makes its way to the Philippines from its former colonial master every year. More to the point, we've bled together. It's a relationship neither side takes lightly.

winton
25 Nov 13,, 23:52
If you were half as intelligent as you seem to think you are, you'd be dangerous.

I will take that as a compilment.


The fact that you even made this statement tells me that you know very little about the Filipino people and their relationship with the US.

I'm not the only one.

Is the US Exploiting Typhoon Suffering to Win Military Bases in the Philippines? « Antiwar.com Blog (http://antiwar.com/blog/2013/11/20/is-the-us-exploiting-typhoon-suffering-to-win-military-bases-in-the-philippines/)

You cannot talk for the phillipino people yourself. Most are concerned with putting food on the table. Its difficult to reconcile that after 50 years of US conlonialisation and aid over the years, they still have alot of work to do.


I'm pretty sure most here with REAL knowledge of the relationship would tell you that the relationship is pretty warm.

Its warm between diplomats sure and its warm because the Filipinos want america to fullfil its treaty obligations which is a cause for great concern amongst the Filipino leaders who actually give a damn right now, cause they aren't hearing what they want to hear, unlike the Japanese.

If you were to go to China (whom you all see as an enemy) you'll meet alot of warm people too.

What I'm getting at, is that this warm relationship hasn't really done much for the Filipinos


Americans are always welcome there

American dollars are welcome. So are chinese yuans and any other currency you care to think of.


Large portions of the US military are populated by Philippine nationals and Filipino-Americans

I can understand their need to get a green card and improve their lot. The US mil is a viable pathway and a viable career.


they all aren't "mess boys" which is what I assume you have in mind.

you assumed wrong. I have a great affection for the Filipinos from their fight for independance to the plight of their poor who haven't been well served by their leadership visavis this warm relationship with the US.

As they are a part of ASEAN, they are brothers to me.


All of my best electricians were Filipinos, hands down.

some good members of my church are filipino. Whats your point?


Large amounts of US capital makes its way to the Philippines from its former colonial master every year. More to the point, we've bled together. It's a relationship neither side takes lightly.

which is dwarfed still by the amount of US capital that makes its way to China. Which is also a relationship that neither sides take lightly. So the Filipino leadership might wonder whats going on?

There is alot of opposition to the Plan Us bases in the philipines. Alot of hesitation by some in the leadership itself.

News Analysis: Plan to allow US, Japan military access to Phl bases met by opposition | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com (http://www.philstar.com/headlines/2013/06/29/959812/news-analysis-plan-allow-us-japan-military-access-phl-bases-met)


Do you even remember what the mood was like when the philipines kick the US out 2 decades ago?

cdude
26 Nov 13,, 01:49
All of my best electricians were Filipinos, hands down. Large amounts of US capital makes its way to the Philippines from its former colonial master every year. More to the point, we've bled together. It's a relationship neither side takes lightly.

They've probably let too much of their brains drained in this relationship. The end result is that they went from the most developed to the least ASEAN country in 2 generations.

troung
26 Nov 13,, 03:25
I can't decide if winton is simply an idiot or an idiotic troll...

Anti-American, a poor speller, poor grasp on facts...


As they are a part of ASEAN, they are brothers to me.

Its difficult to reconcile that after 50 years of US conlonialisation and aid over the years, they still have alot of work to do.

. I have a great affection for the Filipinos from their fight for independance to the plight of their poor who haven't been well served by their leadership visavis this warm relationship with the US.

Plenty of examples of hurricanes in cuba, and not much help from america.

tbm3fan
26 Nov 13,, 05:08
Do you even remember what the mood was like when the philipines kick the US out 2 decades ago?

I do since I was there before and many times after. Jubilation for those who wanted the U.S. out so they could show they could stand on their own. Shock and despair for many others who saw their jobs and a big hunk of American dollars disappear overnight.

Those who wanted the U.S. were then shocked when the Navy took out everything they could from Subic for Guam and other locations. They had expected to the U.S. to leave everything in place for them to take. As I have said before the actual country of the Philippines operates in an alternate universe most of the time.

P.S. learn to spell the name of the country (Philippines) and people (Filipino) correctly.

Sige, aalis na ako. Oo.

desertswo
26 Nov 13,, 08:18
I do since I was there before and many times after. Jubilation for those who wanted the U.S. out so they could show they could stand on their own. Shock and despair for many others who saw their jobs and a big hunk of American dollars disappear overnight.

Those who wanted the U.S. were then shocked when the Navy took out everything they could from Subic for Guam and other locations. They had expected to the U.S. to leave everything in place for them to take. As I have said before the actual country of the Philippines operates in an alternate universe most of the time.

P.S. learn to spell the name of the country (Philippines) and people (Filipino) correctly.

Sige, aalis na ako. Oo.

He thinks the Pinoy are his brothers. He don't know the half! :biggrin:

Mabuhay!

Malaking Pandesal

Officer of Engineers
26 Nov 13,, 10:59
If you were half as intelligent as you seem to think you are, you'd be dangerous. If he was half as intelligent as he thinks he is ... he'd still be a virgin.

winton
26 Nov 13,, 12:10
I do since I was there before and many times after. Jubilation for those who wanted the U.S. out so they could show they could stand on their own. Shock and despair for many others who saw their jobs and a big hunk of American dollars disappear overnight.

Well, thanks for sharing your experience, I mean it. We just have different world views.

I think a foreign military base is not an economy any country ought to rely on. Even the Okinawans want it gone. I think the shock and despair of hookers and nightclub workers were probably something the vast population of Filipinos did not miss nor cared much for. In any event, its not like it made up a massive part of their GDP.


Those who wanted the U.S. were then shocked when the Navy took out everything they could from Subic for Guam and other locations. They had expected to the U.S. to leave everything in place for them to take.

Having milked the Phillipines of a strategic port for half a century or more, the least it could do was leave a legacy for the filipino people, rather than gutting it down to the core. That would have been a true mark of friendship.


As I have said before the actual country of the Philippines operates in an alternate universe most of the time.

I agree that things a done a little different in the Philippines, but... they have their freedom and sovereignty. Isn't that something you can't put a price on?


P.S. learn to spell the name of the country (Philippines) and people (Filipino) correctly.

Its not intentional. Its the occasional spell check malfunction, however I am a little disappointed that some would be anal about spelling and not anal about the truth.

winton
26 Nov 13,, 12:30
Anti-American

I beg to differ. I'm more anti dumb foreign policy. Kinda like when Obama was against "Dumb Wars".


poor grasp on facts...

Which part of the four quotes you listed are factually incorrect?

tbm3fan
26 Nov 13,, 22:58
Having milked the Phillipines of a strategic port for half a century or more, the least it could do was leave a legacy for the filipino people, rather than gutting it down to the core. That would have been a true mark of friendship.


Milked the country? Of what exactly. Unlike some other countries we didn't try to strip them of any resources. They still have lots of San Miguel Beer.

As for the base they were left with some damn nice buildings and grounds. In fact all the buildings from Administration to the bowling alley.
The port facilities we needed elsewhere besides the Filipinos have a hard time maintaining anything they get for free. One should see what all they get from us looks like in less than 10 years. Two words... rusting hulks.

Last, you really need to get off the colonialism kick from 1898-1901 as no one is left from those days except you it seems. Americans are more than welcome over there despite the simmering resentment you think exists. I constantly get a lot of attention in the provinces once they know I am American say versus British. I could sit in the little hut, of my wife's step brother, and have 30 people outside the door trying to see the American their neighbor married. Then I am asked to find American husbands. You interested by chance?

cdude
26 Nov 13,, 23:31
Milked the country? Of what exactly. Unlike some other countries we didn't try to strip them of any resources. They still have lots of San Miguel Beer.

As for the base they were left with some damn nice buildings and grounds. In fact all the buildings from Administration to the bowling alley.
The port facilities we needed elsewhere besides the Filipinos have a hard time maintaining anything they get for free. One should see what all they get from us looks like in less than 10 years. Two words... rusting hulks.

Last, you really need to get off the colonialism kick from 1898-1901 as no one is left from those days except you it seems. Americans are more than welcome over there despite the simmering resentment you think exists. I constantly get a lot of attention in the provinces once they know I am American say versus British. I could sit in the little hut, of my wife's step brother, and have 30 people outside the door trying to see the American their neighbor married. Then I am asked to find American husbands. You interested by chance?

LOL, that's entertaining.

You know in New Guinea, people worship cargoes, right?

Gun Grape
26 Nov 13,, 23:41
Milked the country? Of what exactly. Unlike some other countries we didn't try to strip them of any resources. They still have lots of San Miguel Beer.


Hey don't blame me. I tried to drink them all. But got sidetracked by Red Horse:biggrin:

winton
27 Nov 13,, 03:23
Milked the country? Of what exactly.

That dry dock for starters. The Filipinos had their hearts set on it. It would have been helpful to assist the Filopinos to setup a ship maintenance and other port activity there to maintain their economy in that area, rather than pull the rug from under them. I felt at the time that the US was childish. Like, if you don't want us here, we're going to take all our toys home and make you suffer.


Unlike some other countries we didn't try to strip them of any resources.

A port is a resource. You denied the Filipino people the use of that resource whilst you occupied it.


As for the base they were left with some damn nice buildings and grounds. In fact all the buildings from Administration to the bowling alley. The port facilities we needed elsewhere

This was the jewel in the crown. Of which those nice buildings and bowling alleys became redundant without.


besides the Filipinos have a hard time maintaining anything they get for free. One should see what all they get from us looks like in less than 10 years. Two words... rusting hulks.

This is the lasting legacy of the US. We will bring our shinny toys and grand buildings into the area and take them out when we are gone. We don't teach them anything and thats why they are still living in huts. Go figure.

If you left a whole class of people living in huts, I have to wonder what exactly the US were doing for the people of the phillipines in all the time they were there.


Last, you really need to get off the colonialism kick from 1898-1901 as no one is left from those days except you it seems.

I'm merely putting myself in their shoes. If they can hold a grudge from 1901 to the day they kicked you out of subic, they can hold a grudge for a lot longer after that. And that is something you don't get to experience, because as long as you bring in american dollars, you get service with a smile. Of course you are going to leave the phillipines feeling warm and fuzzy.


Americans are more than welcome over there despite the simmering resentment you think exists.

Anyone with currency is welcomed. Even the chinese which has double the bilateral trade with the phillipines than the US. Despite the tensions, they are rolling the red carpet out to the chinese.


I could sit in the little hut, of my wife's step brother, and have 30 people outside the door trying to see the American their neighbor married. Then I am asked to find American husbands. You interested by chance?

LOL... Is she good looking? Like Kim Chiu good looking?

Red Team
27 Nov 13,, 04:12
Winton,

As a native-born Filipino I can honestly say that relations between the US and the Philippines have always been more than cordial. Ever since WWII, Americans have been widely regarded as historical friends to the Philippines. Post colonial resentment is virtually non-existent and American pop/cultural icons are almost as ubiquitously known there as over here.

Also, the military ties between the nations never really completely died off, in fact American military advisers are an integral part of Filipino military operations against Abu Sayyaf et al. in Mindanao. GlobalSecurity: Operation Enduring Freedom - Philippines (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/enduring-freedom-philippines.htm)

And as far as being vehemently opposed to US military support and aid goes...

PHILIPPINES SEEKS US HELP TO BUILD ITS MILITARY - Balitang America | Balitang America (http://216.246.97.58/~balitang/philippines-seeks-us-help-to-build-its-military/) (Filipino Indiginous News Source)

Philippine President Aquino seeks U.S. military aid - Washington Post (http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-06-08/world/35462555_1_president-benigno-aquino-iii-clark-air-base-philippine-leaders)

More US boots on Philippine soil - Asia Times (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-090913.html)

U.S. gives tacit backing to Philippines in China sea dispute | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/10/10/uk-asia-summit-idUKBRE99901C20131010)

And as to your chances with Filipino women: having lived in New York for a good 2/3 of my life, I consider myself for all intents and purposes a bonafide New Yorker. That said, my accent's ability to attract women there is freakin' amazing so... ;)

tbm3fan
27 Nov 13,, 04:38
That dry dock for starters. The Filipinos had their hearts set on it. It would have been helpful to assist the Filopinos to setup a ship maintenance and other port activity there to maintain their economy in that area, rather than pull the rug from under them. I felt at the time that the US was childish. Like, if you don't want us here, we're going to take all our toys home and make you suffer.



A port is a resource. You denied the Filipino people the use of that resource whilst you occupied it.



This was the jewel in the crown. Of which those nice buildings and bowling alleys became redundant without.



This is the lasting legacy of the US. We will bring our shinny toys and grand buildings into the area and take them out when we are gone. We don't teach them anything and thats why they are still living in huts. Go figure.

If you left a whole class of people living in huts, I have to wonder what exactly the US were doing for the people of the phillipines in all the time they were there.



I'm merely putting myself in their shoes. If they can hold a grudge from 1901 to the day they kicked you out of subic, they can hold a grudge for a lot longer after that. And that is something you don't get to experience, because as long as you bring in american dollars, you get service with a smile. Of course you are going to leave the phillipines feeling warm and fuzzy.



Anyone with currency is welcomed. Even the chinese which has double the bilateral trade with the phillipines than the US. Despite the tensions, they are rolling the red carpet out to the chinese.



LOL... Is she good looking? Like Kim Chiu good looking?

Hey, everybody the United States is responsible for every country where people are living in huts.

What a bunch of unmitigated crap and this from someone who has probably never been to the Philippines.

Yep, definitely a troll

Tumigil ka na nga!

Officer of Engineers
27 Nov 13,, 05:08
That dry dock for starters. The Filipinos had their hearts set on it. It would have been helpful to assist the Filopinos to setup a ship maintenance and other port activity there to maintain their economy in that area, rather than pull the rug from under them. I felt at the time that the US was childish. Like, if you don't want us here, we're going to take all our toys home and make you suffer.You're serious! The drydocks stayed. The lifts, ie the machinery left. I'm sorry, you evicted me, you got your house, and you want me to give you the fridge that I bought?

In who's world?

Gun Grape
27 Nov 13,, 05:36
That dry dock for starters. The Filipinos had their hearts set on it. It would have been helpful to assist the Filopinos to setup a ship maintenance and other port activity there to maintain their economy in that area, rather than pull the rug from under them. I felt at the time that the US was childish. Like, if you don't want us here, we're going to take all our toys home and make you suffer.

It was a floating dry dock. In other words a ship. Why wouldn't the US navy take all their ships? If the US Navy had left them, there were 3, how and where would we have repaired our deployed ships?

If we had wanted to be the assbags you claim we are, we would have destroyed the port. Cranes, buildings, docks and all.


A port is a resource. You denied the Filipino people the use of that resource whilst you occupied it.

No we didn't. In fact the US Bases(Subic and Cubi Point) shrank from 224 Sq KM in its heyday to 63 Sq KM. In 79 the base was reverted to Philippine control with the US as Tenants vice landlords.


This was the jewel in the crown. Of which those nice buildings and bowling alleys became redundant without.

Well later in the post you complain about them living in huts. What did they do with all that base housing we left them?


This is the lasting legacy of the US. We will bring our shinny toys and grand buildings into the area and take them out when we are gone. We don't teach them anything and thats why they are still living in huts. Go figure.

If you left a whole class of people living in huts, I have to wonder what exactly the US were doing for the people of the Philippines in all the time they were there.

Well the times I was there, we did many community resource projects. Like repairing schools, clinics and orphanages. Free medical services were provided to distant towns and villages that did not have a doctor. US and Filipino medical personnel working together. Taken on US military helos and US equipment that they didn't have access to used. Thats just a few of the things we did all the time.

The base also pumped around $6 million a day into the local economy. Provided jobs, paid for utilities and shopping in the Po. Clark AFB did the same.

Answer this question. What did the locals do with that money?


{quote]
I'm merely putting myself in their shoes. If they can hold a grudge from 1901 to the day they kicked you out of subic, they can hold a grudge for a lot longer after that. And that is something you don't get to experience, because as long as you bring in american dollars, you get service with a smile. Of course you are going to leave the phillipines feeling warm and fuzzy.[/quote]

I was in the PI during that time. They hated us so much that their money had both the US and Philippine Flag


You haven't a clue

tbm3fan
27 Nov 13,, 06:27
He clearly doesn't.

As a port Subic is not too useful. Being north of the capital by about 60 miles, which can be 2-3 hours on the highway, it is useless for moving cargo around the country. Either you trans ship it on a smaller boat to one of the other islands or take it to NAIA. All that is in Manila.

As for the buildings being redundant he wasn't paying attention. While Clark was stripped by scavengers, Gordon protected Subic and Cubi. As a result nothing was stripped and the grounds are as nice today as when under US Navy control. If he had been to the Philippines, at least in this decade, he would know how those buildings are being put to use. I know but am not going to help him with that.

winton
27 Nov 13,, 08:53
You're serious! The drydocks stayed.

The floating one. The Locals wanted that.


If he had been to the Philippines, at least in this decade, he would know how those buildings are being put to use. I know but am not going to help him with that.

It doesnt take a genius to know that buildings can be used given the time that has elapsed. You think the filipinos just sat still after the US got evicted? They made the best of what was left to them which was very little.


As a port Subic is not too useful.

It can be useful if proper roads and rail where built to it, but that wasn't the point. It was a naval port.

Doktor
27 Nov 13,, 09:14
Col, Sir, you done? This is pain.

winton
27 Nov 13,, 09:49
It was a floating dry dock. In other words a ship. Why wouldn't the US navy take all their ships? If the US Navy had left them, there were 3, how and where would we have repaired our deployed ships?

It would have been a gesture of goodwill and friendship. Wishing them well. You must admit that the US govt at the time wasn't happy about the eviction. And unhappy govts don't leave happily.


If we had wanted to be the assbags you claim we are, we would have destroyed the port. Cranes, buildings, docks and all.

Of course. It has to be that extreme for the US to be labeled assbags.


No we didn't. In fact the US Bases(Subic and Cubi Point) shrank from 224 Sq KM in its heyday to 63 Sq KM. In 79 the base was reverted to Philippine control with the US as Tenants vice landlords.

In other words, the status quo remains only the name has changed.


Well later in the post you complain about them living in huts. What did they do with all that base housing we left them?

It wasnt a complaint. Just a statement of outcome for the Filipino people after so many years of American colonization and friendship.


Well the times I was there, we did many community resource projects. Like repairing schools, clinics and orphanages. Free medical services were provided to distant towns and villages that did not have a doctor. US and Filipino medical personnel working together. Taken on US military helos and US equipment that they didn't have access to used. Thats just a few of the things we did all the time.

I'm sure the people of Okinawa appreciated the current community activism, but they still want the US out. Its about soverignty and dignity. Sure the people are friendly, but its their town.


The base also pumped around $6 million a day into the local economy. Provided jobs, paid for utilities and shopping in the Po. Clark AFB did the same.

That's not a bargain. How would you like the chinese navy to take over pearl harbour. I'm sure they'd pay triple that. See how its not about the money.


I was in the PI during that time. They hated us so much that their money had both the US and Philippine Flag

Hate is a bit harsh. Its not hate and I never alluded to that, although there were some that did resent you being there. The money thing is the legacy of their history. They weren't going to run away from it.

I think you have to ask yourself why that despite you being there at the time and made alot of friends witht he locals, they still evicted you.

Bigfella
27 Nov 13,, 15:44
Winton,

As a native-born Filipino I can honestly say that relations between the US and the Philippines have always been more than cordial. Ever since WWII, Americans have been widely regarded as historical friends to the Philippines. Post colonial resentment is virtually non-existent and American pop/cultural icons are almost as ubiquitously known there as over here.

Also, the military ties between the nations never really completely died off, in fact American military advisers are an integral part of Filipino military operations against Abu Sayyaf et al. in Mindanao. GlobalSecurity: Operation Enduring Freedom - Philippines (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/enduring-freedom-philippines.htm)

And as far as being vehemently opposed to US military support and aid goes...

PHILIPPINES SEEKS US HELP TO BUILD ITS MILITARY - Balitang America | Balitang America (http://216.246.97.58/~balitang/philippines-seeks-us-help-to-build-its-military/) (Filipino Indiginous News Source)

Philippine President Aquino seeks U.S. military aid - Washington Post (http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-06-08/world/35462555_1_president-benigno-aquino-iii-clark-air-base-philippine-leaders)

More US boots on Philippine soil - Asia Times (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/SEA-01-090913.html)

U.S. gives tacit backing to Philippines in China sea dispute | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/10/10/uk-asia-summit-idUKBRE99901C20131010)

And as to your chances with Filipino women: having lived in New York for a good 2/3 of my life, I consider myself for all intents and purposes a bonafide New Yorker. That said, my accent's ability to attract women there is freakin' amazing so... ;)

Clearly you are mistaken red team. Winton has Wikipedia and an innate understanding of his 'ASEAN brothers'. He also knows more about ASW than a former destroyer captain. He just knows stuff, see. I'm afraid your Filipino nationality is as nothing when compared to this. best to quit now before you embarrass yourself. :biggrin:

winton
28 Nov 13,, 05:34
Clearly you are mistaken red team.

Not quite. Red Team is entitled to his view and being a Filipino, yes he has more weight than say someone from outside of Asia. But his views are one of 98 million. Statistically, thats not a large sample for someone to be claiming total representation. However, I do respect his views.


Winton has Wikipedia and an innate understanding of his 'ASEAN brothers'.

Don't forget I can see the Philippines from my window. LOL

Seriously, as a SEA, I have more of an understanding than someone outside of Asia. However, as someone who might have not been part of the generation that evicted the americans, He might not know what it was like then. (Correct me if I am wrong Red Team) Also, there was alot of resentment during the US military occupation, including allegations of rape and crime and disorderly conduct by members of US forces there. This resentment reached a crescendo culminating in the eviction order. Now that the US has not been there for quite some time, tensions and resentment have dissipated and the majority of Filipinos just want to get on with their lives and advance their lot. This includes alot of Filipinos that have migrated to America and enjoyed the opportunities it has had to offer. Good for them. However, there are people who have not forgotten that era and leaders who have deep reservations about foreign military occupiers. Cause past is prologue

But I think you have to recognize that our main objective was evicting our colonial administrators. Now moving forward any relations must be of mutual respect and mutual trust.


He also knows more about ASW than a former destroyer captain. He just knows stuff, see.

That was just a misunderstanding. I'm glad its been taken cared of.


I'm afraid your Filipino nationality is as nothing when compared to this. best to quit now before you embarrass yourself. :biggrin:

On the contrary, I don't look down on the Filipinos. I see them as being equal brothers, and that is why its been easy for SEA nations to stick together.

Gun Grape
03 Dec 13,, 01:40
It would have been a gesture of goodwill and friendship. Wishing them well. You must admit that the US govt at the time wasn't happy about the eviction. And unhappy govts don't leave happily.

So we should forgo the ability to repair not only our ships but allied warships in the Pacific just to make the citizens of Olongapo feel good?



Hate is a bit harsh. Its not hate and I never alluded to that, although there were some that did resent you being there.

There are Americans that resent having a military base in their hometown



I think you have to ask yourself why that despite you being there at the time and made alot of friends with the locals, they still evicted you.

That is very easy. The Philippine Senate got greedy. A treaty had been negotiated. President Aquino was in favor. And the people were for it.

The Philippine Senate thought that because of the high usage during the recent Gulf War that they held a huge bargaining chip. They didn't

Clark AFB had been shut down and abandoned due to the volcano. The US no longer was fighting the cold war and plans were already being made for a gradual draw down of Subic. We refused to negotiate further.

tbm3fan
03 Dec 13,, 06:46
That is very easy. The Philippine Senate got greedy. A treaty had been negotiated. President Aquino was in favor. And the people were for it.

The Philippine Senate thought that because of the high usage during the recent Gulf War that they held a huge bargaining chip. They didn't

Clark AFB had been shut down and abandoned due to the volcano. The US no longer was fighting the cold war and plans were already being made for a gradual draw down of Subic. We refused to negotiate further.

It should be noted that the Senate's Foreign Relations Committee voted 12-11 against the new treaty. A formal vote by the 24 member Senate would need two thirds to pass. President Corazon Aquino then called on supporters of the treaty to march on the Senate ala the People's Power March. They felt that there was still room to negotiate at the time even though Washington took the preliminary vote seriously.

Questions I always had was who were the 12 who voted against the treaty. Namely what province they came from versus the 11 who voted for it. Translation revolves around "who gets the money." The base is in Northern Luzon and not in the Visayas or Mindanao. I know the answer.

Second, slightly off topic, is why the hell there are 23 members on the Foreign Relations Committee out of 24 members. I know... only in the Philippines. That is my one why question for the day as I don't know the answer.

Last, taking a look at their Senate shows a rouges gallery of characters. Names, or shall I say family names, that go back decades/centuries showing the Senate is a hand me down family business. That was courtesy of the Spanish who handed out very large land grants to ensure cooperation of the Filipinos when they arrived in the islands. They still control extremely large amount of land in the country to this day and to their very great benefit both politically and economically. That is one place where a revolution might have done them some good in eliminating the land owner/vassal relationship. This is what will always hold back that country for eternity.

Edit: Should be also noted that they feel that even the VFA currently in place leads to crime and prostitution in the areas where the troops are. I know that is b.s. as I have been there when U.S. troops are present and they were confined to base during that time.

However, I just got an email from a friend living in Angeles where Clark Air Base was. Seems there was a commotion at the end of his street involving a Filipina, her British husband, and two early 20's Filipino males. Next thing he knew the males were running down the street past him and the Filipina was screaming. Seems they clocked the husband in the head with a rock knocking him out. The wife reported that the two had discussed, in tagalog, doing just that since he was a foreigner and it was ok to kill him. Since I know personally of six others killed in the last 10 years, and a few attempts, this story is most likely probable.

tbm3fan
10 Dec 13,, 03:57
A clear example of why I do not give money to charities for aid in 3rd World Countries. This relates to British aid but probably has happened to most aid. Any country that gave cash was foolish to do so as most ended up in the wrong hands. I know Australia is in for $40M.

Philippines aid scandal: Food flown in from Britain ends up in shops hundreds of miles from typhoon | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2519974/Philippines-aid-scandal-Food-flown-Britain-ends-shops-hundreds-miles-typhoon.html)


Philippines aid scandal: Food flown in from Britain ends up in shops hundreds of miles from typhoon

Supplies have turned up on shelves of shops in the capital Manila
Equipment bought with UK donations have been locked up in warehouses
Rice and other food is being stockpiled and not given to needy
Charities express concern that not all donations are reaching disaster zone

By Simon Parry

PUBLISHED: 17:14 EST, 7 December 2013 | UPDATED: 17:14 EST, 7 December 2013

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Crucial aid sent from Britain to help the victims of typhoon-ravaged areas of the Philippines is being siphoned off and sold for profit by corrupt local officials.

Emergency supplies delivered by military helicopters have turned up on the shelves of shops in affluent districts of the capital Manila – hundreds of miles from the disaster zone.

And shelter equipment purchased using British donations has been locked up in government warehouses and stockpiled alongside rice and other food intended for victims of last month’s catastrophe, The Mail on Sunday has learned.
A television news report shows much-needed supplies on sale in affluent parts of the capital Manila

A television news report shows much-needed supplies on sale in affluent parts of the capital Manila
Filipinos rush to get relief goods during a helicopter aid drop

Filipinos rush to get relief goods during a helicopter aid drop. Evidence that much-needed supplies are being stockpiled rather than being distributed to those in need

Last night, the Disasters Emergency Committee (DEC) – an umbrella group representing 14 UK charities – expressed concern about evidence that suggests not all the £60 million of aid given by Britain is reaching those most in need.

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Alarming evidence of the thefts has been provided by expat Keb Darge, 56, who says he faces death threats for stopping local officials stealing aid in Eastern Samar, one of the worst-hit areas.

Mr Darge, a disc jockey originally from Scotland, said: ‘The aid isn’t getting through to where it’s needed. I’ve seen the deliveries arrive and I’ve seen them disappear.

‘Only a tiny percentage of the aid is getting through. The situation isn’t going to improve unless there’s an investigation. Someone needs to go and find out exactly what is happening. It is British aid coming in. Why give it to untrustworthy officials to steal? It is ludicrous.’

Mr Darge photographed supplies being locked up rather than distributed in Eastern Samar, where he used to live with his Filipino wife and their nine-year-old daughter. Now he has gone into hiding in Manila, fearing reprisals after receiving threats from the corrupt officials he has been trying to expose.
Charities have expressed concern about evidence that suggests not all the £60¿million of aid given by Britain is reaching those - such as residents of Tacloban (pictured)

Charities have expressed concern about evidence that suggests not all the £60¿million of aid given by Britain is reaching those - such as residents of Tacloban (pictured) - that need it most

He said: ‘People have warned me to take these threats seriously. They’ve said, ‘‘Be careful, they will shoot you if you carry on.” I’m under threat. There’s a price on my head.’

Mr Darge’s wife, Edith, 33, lost 15 members of her family when the storm struck their village of Hernani. Since then the couple have offered shelter and fed families in their home, which is solidly built and powered by a generator. Mr Darge has also searched for missing friends and cleared bodies from flooded areas.

Television stations in the Philippines have supported Mr Darge’s claims, reporting that supplies have been diverted to Manila. Aid packages have also apparently been auctioned online.

And Mr Darge’s allegations of corruption were backed up by a Japanese aid worker, Shiratori Koti, who said local administrators were diverting goods to their homes.

Mr Koti said: ‘There isn’t enough food getting through to people. We don’t have evidence but we believe it is being taken by officials.’
More than 5,000 people were killed and up to four million people displaced when Super Typhoon Haiyan hit on November 8.

More than 5,000 people were killed and up to four million people displaced when Super Typhoon Haiyan hit on November 8. Pictured: The storm in Legaspi, Albay province

There are also concerns that supplies are simply being wasted. Mr Darge described finding 800 beef-burgers – apparently flown in from the US aircraft carrier George Washington – dumped by the roadside.

In Hernani, some residents have criticised the local mayor, Edgar Boco, in the wake of the crisis. One online contributor accused him of withholding aid and ‘distributing it to his preferred party-mafia circle’.

In a newspaper interview, Mr Boco admitted his officials were controlling distribution but said: ‘You can’t constantly give relief goods to the people. People will abuse the system. They will gorge themselves.’

A DEC spokesman said last night: ‘I would be interested to find out what items are being sold and where.

‘There is always a risk of diversion and theft, but our member agencies have measures in place to stop this happening very early on. Our aid is carefully targeted and monitored.’

More than 5,000 people were killed and up to four million people displaced when Super Typhoon Haiyan devastated the Philippines on November 8.