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S2
15 Sep 13,, 09:16
Season's in full swing today. My Big Ten is gettin' small. My Badgers just got royally hosed out in Tempe tonight in the most inexplicable fashion I've yet seen-


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZdoGLzbMhM

Stave was down. Photo shows the knee. Doesn't matter. He can yield right there. Idea was to center the ball for a winning fieldgoal while having the team about where they'd need to be in order to line up and spike the ball.

Good play with plenty of time. Simply beyond the acumen of the referee crew.

Again.:bang:

Shades of the 2012 Rose Bowl against the fcukin' Ducks.

bonehead
15 Sep 13,, 19:05
Season's in full swing today. My Big Ten is gettin' small. My Badgers just got royally hosed out in Tempe tonight in the most inexplicable fashion I've yet seen-


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZdoGLzbMhM

Stave was down. Photo shows the knee. Doesn't matter. He can yield right there. Idea was to center the ball for a winning fieldgoal while having the team about where they'd need to be in order to line up and spike the ball.

Good play with plenty of time. Simply beyond the acumen of the referee crew.

Again.:bang:

Shades of the 2012 Rose Bowl against the fcukin' Ducks.

Running plays are always dangerous at these times. Spike the ball, throw it away, take a quick strike in the end zone, anything would have been better than just placing the ball on the ground after a perceived running play. The officials didn't see a knee and nor would anyone else that saw the clip. If anything that was a fumble/turnover. Chalk it up to a learning experience for the QB.

S2
15 Sep 13,, 20:01
"The officials didn't see a knee and nor would anyone else that saw the clip. If anything that was a fumble/turnover. "

The backjudge signaled it was down. End of that story.

The reason for the play was simple...but critical. The ball, with 18 seconds, has plenty of time to be centered between the hashes, whistled live and snapped for a spike and on comes the field goal team. Why? Kicker needed all the help he could get.

The play was a correct choice. That we were permitted to run only one play in eighteen seconds was a travesty. Smart fans understanding the rules would get it.

Others?

Not so much.

Finally, nothing (of course) prevented the refs from checking the replay, spotting the ball and putting it back in play. Instead, the refs RUN off the field like frightened schoolchildren. Sad.

We were jobbed by your shitty refs. That's obvious.

bonehead
16 Sep 13,, 02:18
"The officials didn't see a knee and nor would anyone else that saw the clip. If anything that was a fumble/turnover. "

The backjudge signaled it was down. End of that story.

The reason for the play was simple...but critical. The ball, with 18 seconds, has plenty of time to be centered between the hashes, whistled live and snapped for a spike and on comes the field goal team. Why? Kicker needed all the help he could get.

The play was a correct choice. That we were permitted to run only one play in eighteen seconds was a travesty. Smart fans understanding the rules would get it.

Others?

Not so much.

Finally, nothing (of course) prevented the refs from checking the replay, spotting the ball and putting it back in play. Instead, the refs RUN off the field like frightened schoolchildren. Sad.

We were jobbed by your shitty refs. That's obvious.

Come on S2 tell me how you really feel. In the mean time, I doubt Wisconsin will get cute with a few remaining seconds in the game and gamble like that again. Yes a running play with that little time remaining and no time outs is a gamble. That will save a heartbreaking loss later on. I also bet that the next time the QB takes a knee he wont be afraid of getting his uniform dirty.
I am always an advocate of punishing/removing refs who are biassed and/or incompetent and believe the NCAA should have a better system in place for such instances. Until then it is what it is.

S2
16 Sep 13,, 07:35
"In the mean time, I doubt Wisconsin will get cute with a few remaining seconds in the game and gamble like that again..."

It's not about "...cute...". The need to center the ball for OUR kicker was there. How could you know his skill? You're a Duck fan. So why did you assume "...cute..."? It's not a gamble. Risk? Maybe, but only if the refs display the incompetence shown last night. That ball was down with 16 seconds left. Two seconds run off the clock. Why should I assume spiking the ball and kicking a field goal would take more? This is major college football and it's done that way a lot. I'd presume you know that. Your assumptions, therefore, seem pretty damned weak. Unless playing a Pac 12 team on the road.

Now...here's the kicker. How is it that Pac 12 officials so well-versed in the high-tempo spread attack could flawlessly facilitate ASU getting off 90 snaps from scrimmage yet inexplicably fumble managing down, distance and clock when it mattered for UW? How is it that ASU garnered a sum total of three five-yard procedural penalties but EVERY subjective call (holding, P.I.) went against Wisconsin?

Finally, nothing wrong with replay (unless you're an Oklahoma fan playing Oregon) to set things straight. A referee conference, even a video review and get it right. Instead, those refs RAN for the locker room like frightened children...in a friendly stadium no less. The Rose Bowl against Oregon. Oregon State (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Wisconsin-oregon-state-onside-kick-officials-botch-review-090812) last year.

Now this. Not good for college football. Not at all.

Minskaya
16 Sep 13,, 12:16
I have no idea why the QB didn't spike or take an obvious knee. I've never seen anything like that in either collegiate or pro ball.

However, I agree that the officials handled this very poorly. They should have called an officials timeout, conferred and arrived at a consensus, explained their consensus publicly, and checked the video to reset the game clock.

bonehead
16 Sep 13,, 15:59
I have no idea why the QB didn't spike or take an obvious knee. I've never seen anything like that in either collegiate or pro ball.

However, I agree that the officials handled this very poorly. They should have called an officials timeout, conferred and arrived at a consensus, explained their consensus publicly, and checked the video to reset the game clock.

The officials didn't think they needed to do anything else so they didn't. There is no question that it was a bizarre play. There was also no question that many who saw it thought it was a legitimate fumble and it was actually ASU's ball and game over.

Gun Grape
16 Sep 13,, 16:33
I watched the clip 4 times, in slomo on the 52in TV.

Saw him squat down and place the ball then back away from it. Never saw the knee touch anything.

bonehead
16 Sep 13,, 16:34
"In the mean time, I doubt Wisconsin will get cute with a few remaining seconds in the game and gamble like that again..."

It's not about "...cute...". The need to center the ball for OUR kicker was there. How could you know his skill? You're a Duck fan. So why did you assume "...cute..."? It's not a gamble. Risk? Maybe, but only if the refs display the incompetence shown last night. That ball was down with 16 seconds left. Two seconds run off the clock. Why should I assume spiking the ball and kicking a field goal would take more? This is major college football and it's done that way a lot. I'd presume you know that. Your assumptions, therefore, seem pretty damned weak. Unless playing a Pac 12 team on the road.

Now...here's the kicker. How is it that Pac 12 officials so well-versed in the high-tempo spread attack could flawlessly facilitate ASU getting off 90 snaps from scrimmage yet inexplicably fumble managing down, distance and clock when it mattered for UW? How is it that ASU garnered a sum total of three five-yard procedural penalties but EVERY subjective call (holding, P.I.) went against Wisconsin?

Finally, nothing wrong with replay (unless you're an Oklahoma fan playing Oregon) to set things straight. A referee conference, even a video review and get it right. Instead, those refs RAN for the locker room like frightened children...in a friendly stadium no less. The Rose Bowl against Oregon. Oregon State (http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/Wisconsin-oregon-state-onside-kick-officials-botch-review-090812) last year.

Now this. Not good for college football. Not at all.




I know you are upset but 2012 Rose bowl was Oregon..not Oregon state. However it does show a pattern. Wisconsin has poor time management skills in big games. Lining up and trying to spike the ball with 2 seconds? really? A time out would have been handy huh?

The play was cute because a lot was risked for very little reward. It was also cute because the QB didn't want to get his uniform dirty and take an obvious knee. Just putting the ball down made everybody go WTF? and that cost precious time. Yes S2 I watch a lot of college football. Aside from taking an obvious knee the overwhelming types of plays are passing plays because everyone else knows that running plays can take a lot of time off the clock and you risk not having enough time for the next play.

I really am not buying the need to center the ball for the kicker. We are not talking 50 yarders. I was not a kicker but I could chip the ball in from 13 yards in high school....been there done that. If Wisconsin's kicker is really that inept it is time to spend a scholarship and find a kicker that can. He nailed a 34 yarder earlier in the quarter so what was the worry?


No we both have seen a lot of games. When things get tight it is always easy to blame whatever happened last. Some times the calls go your way and sometimes they don't. Sometimes the ball bounces your way and then sometimes not. That is just the game and not much can be done about it. That is why you put teams away early and don't let them come back. If you let lesser teams stay close you risk something bad happening and you could end up losing. Wisconsin could have won that game earlier but their defense got soft in the 4th.

Minskaya
16 Sep 13,, 19:29
I watched the clip 4 times, in slomo on the 52in TV. Saw him squat down and place the ball then back away from it. Never saw the knee touch anything.
There was no spike, no knee down, and I detected no contact by an ASU player.

If I was officiating that play on the field or reviewing it in the booth, I would have considered it a live ball which was recovered by ASU.

S2
16 Sep 13,, 19:36
I know you are upset but 2012 Rose bowl was Oregon..not Oregon state."

Read more closely. I mentioned Oregon AND Oregon State. Even highlighted in red and underlined the link.

The quarterback's knee was down. THE WHISTLE had blown. So those questioning this part are missing the point. The OFFICIALS recognized the play was over. It doesn't matter that you don't.

33931


"I really am not buying the need to center the ball for the kicker. We are not talking 50 yarders."

Yeah...again you don't matter. Your cannon leg isn't being wielded out there. Kyle French was expected to take the try and he's had a tough career so far. 18 seconds is a lifetime. Only two of those seconds elapsed before the whistle blew stopping play. That should have left 16 seconds to snap, spike, stop the clock and get the field goal team out there. Done all the time...except on the west coast.

Minskaya
16 Sep 13,, 20:04
33931
A much better camera angle. His knee is clearly down in this still frame. Under collegiate football rules, when a knee of the ball carrier touches the ground the play is officially over.

S2
16 Sep 13,, 20:34
"...There was also no question that many who saw it thought it was a legitimate fumble and it was actually ASU's ball and game over..."

But they'd be wrong. Very, very wrong. Back Judge saw the play and blew the whistle. The ball was down. Control of the moment was lost when the ASU player jumps on the ball. Nothing stopped that crew from taking a moment and gathering their wits.

They chose otherwise.

S2
16 Sep 13,, 21:52
Guess the Pac 12 sees matters similarly to UW-

PAC 12 Reprimands Refs (http://pac-12.com/article/2013/09/16/pac-12-reprimands-game-officials-wisconsin-arizona-state-game)

Doktor
16 Sep 13,, 21:54
I like this thread. I have no clue what the rules are, yet I understand you loud and clear.

Albany Rifles
17 Sep 13,, 01:15
Next time take a knee. Make the decision for them.

S2
17 Sep 13,, 02:04
"Next time take a knee. Make the decision for them."

Ummm...isn't that what my posted photo just showed? Stave taking a knee?:confused:

YellowFever
17 Sep 13,, 04:11
I think what AR meant was take a knee and stay there until you hear a whistle.

What I first thought happened when I saw that clip was that the QB bumped against his own linesman and kind of wobbled and then suddenly put the ball on the ground and walked away.

Even in the pic S2 posted, his knee was clearly on the ground but the ball was in his hands.

it was done in a split second and the zebras could've missed the knee on the ground easily.

The refs were clearly at fault for not calling the ball dead but the QB made that decision harder than it should have been for the refs to call.

S2
17 Sep 13,, 04:41
"...I think what AR meant was take a knee and stay there until you hear a whistle."

Whistle from backjudge was near immediate. Here's a rule, though, so few here and elsewhere apparently understand-

The 2011 and 2012 NCAA Rules state in Rule 4, Section 1, Article 3(o): "'A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle or declare it dead … When a ball carrier simulates placing his knee on the ground.'[3]"

That's ALL Stave need do. This he did...and more. The photo of Stave kneeling makes that clear to you. Stave's action and the ref's whistle should have done the same elsewhere. All that followed is on the refs

bonehead
17 Sep 13,, 05:58
I know you are upset but 2012 Rose bowl was Oregon..not Oregon state."

Read more closely. I mentioned Oregon AND Oregon State. Even highlighted in red and underlined the link.

The quarterback's knee was down. THE WHISTLE had blown. So those questioning this part are missing the point. The OFFICIALS recognized the play was over. It doesn't matter that you don't.

33931


"I really am not buying the need to center the ball for the kicker. We are not talking 50 yarders."

Yeah...again you don't matter. Your cannon leg isn't being wielded out there. Kyle French was expected to take the try and he's had a tough career so far. 18 seconds is a lifetime. Only two of those seconds elapsed before the whistle blew stopping play. That should have left 16 seconds to snap, spike, stop the clock and get the field goal team out there. Done all the time...except on the west coast.




LOL my bad...missed a period.

At best one official recognized what happened. Many on the field clearly didn't and to the announcers who had the best seats in the house called a fumble.

"My cannon leg" Thats a hoot as anything past the 20 yard line may as well have been in the next state for me. The point is that I DO know enough that moving the ball over a few feet at that distance is what doesn't matter.

The average amount of time that expired per play during the game was about 18 seconds...shorter for passing plays and longer for running as for instance they don't stop the clock on a running play where you lose a couple of yards. Wisconsin had 18 seconds. Wisconsin gambled and lost on what can only be described as a bizarre play. That is how it is going to go in the books.

If it make you feel better.
Pac-12 Conference reprimands officials from Arizona State-Wisconsin game - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9681505/pac-12-conference-reprimands-officials-arizona-state-wisconsin-game)
Since it comes from a league and not the NCAA.... just lip service.

bonehead
17 Sep 13,, 06:08
"Next time take a knee. Make the decision for them."

Ummm...isn't that what my posted photo just showed? Stave taking a knee?:confused:

The photo taken from a mile away? If that was a fourth down play and the game was over at that point you would be arguing his knee came close but did not touch. You don't see that at all watching the video and if his knee did touch you would not even have to blink to miss it in real time.

Minskaya
17 Sep 13,, 07:51
The photo taken from a mile away? If that was a fourth down play and the game was over at that point you would be arguing his knee came close but did not touch. You don't see that at all watching the video and if his knee did touch you would not even have to blink to miss it in real time.
A referee saw the knee touch and blew his whistle signaling the play was over. The officiating crew badly mishandled this sequence and their reprimand was well earned.

S2
17 Sep 13,, 15:37
bonehead, it's clear you aren't reading the thread closely. Average isn't at play. The moment, instead, is. Nothing about the actual play or spiking the ball would suggest they take the "average" amount of time to run. If so, they wouldn't be standard choices at the end of games. One of those two plays had already been run and whistled after TWO SECONDS.

Your thoughts on the kicker and the choice to center the ball is the irrelevant off-hand, smarmy snipe of a fan neither knowledgable of the kicker's general skill nor the specific circumstances. Did you watch warmups? I didn't but maybe Andersen did and perhaps noted his kicks drifting right? That's what coaches do. Meanwhile the kicker's chances, based on AVERAGE, has been poor. Andersen is giving himself the best chance to make the kick and doing so prudently-absent these incompetent boobs.

"The photo taken from a mile away? If that was a fourth down play and the game was over at that point you would be arguing his knee came close but did not touch. You don't see that at all watching the video and if his knee did touch you would not even have to blink to miss it in real time."

It wouldn't have mattered if the knee touched. You know that, of course, because you've read my previous post quoting the NCAA rule on the matter. Or maybe, not... again.

"LOL my bad...missed a period."

And a red, underlined link.

Let's help you...again-

"The 2011 and 2012 NCAA Rules state in Rule 4, Section 1, Article 3(o): "'A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle or declare it dead … When a ball carrier simulates placing his knee on the ground.'[3]"

Does that help?

The runner simulated placing the knee to the ground. Done. The rule and actual act are salient. The back judge recognized the rule immediately and whistled the ball dead. It was clear to every ref there that the play was OVER yet they never, ever stopped the clock to re-set the ball. Instead, the umpire engages in a wrestling contest with an ASU player for the ball and then holds back the UW line from getting set. The guy was mentally overwhelmed by the moment. Totally so and tick-tock goes the clock.


I'm done on this. The issue has been settled for those smart enough to get it. Score's in the books. Wisconsin and the refs get a big loss. Arizona State gets a win. Might have been a well-earned win but for sixteen dissolved seconds. We'll never know but it wasn't their fault.

Oh well.

guicho80
17 Sep 13,, 19:27
The ball was dead and recognized as such. The ASU player should have been assessed a delay of game penalty for laying on a dead ball. If that play is officiated competently, Wisconsin gets the ball with enough time to run a spike play and then bring out their kicking unit.

bonehead
18 Sep 13,, 04:38
bonehead, it's clear you aren't reading the thread closely. Average isn't at play. The moment, instead, is. Nothing about the actual play or spiking the ball would suggest they take the "average" amount of time to run. If so, they wouldn't be standard choices at the end of games. One of those two plays had already been run and whistled after TWO SECONDS.

Your thoughts on the kicker and the choice to center the ball is the irrelevant off-hand, smarmy snipe of a fan neither knowledgable of the kicker's general skill nor the specific circumstances. Did you watch warmups? I didn't but maybe Andersen did and perhaps noted his kicks drifting right? That's what coaches do. Meanwhile the kicker's chances, based on AVERAGE, has been poor. Andersen is giving himself the best chance to make the kick and doing so prudently-absent these incompetent boobs.

"The photo taken from a mile away? If that was a fourth down play and the game was over at that point you would be arguing his knee came close but did not touch. You don't see that at all watching the video and if his knee did touch you would not even have to blink to miss it in real time."

It wouldn't have mattered if the knee touched. You know that, of course, because you've read my previous post quoting the NCAA rule on the matter. Or maybe, not... again.

"LOL my bad...missed a period."

And a red, underlined link.

Let's help you...again-

"The 2011 and 2012 NCAA Rules state in Rule 4, Section 1, Article 3(o): "'A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle or declare it dead … When a ball carrier simulates placing his knee on the ground.'[3]"

Does that help?

The runner simulated placing the knee to the ground. Done. The rule and actual act are salient. The back judge recognized the rule immediately and whistled the ball dead. It was clear to every ref there that the play was OVER yet they never, ever stopped the clock to re-set the ball. Instead, the umpire engages in a wrestling contest with an ASU player for the ball and then holds back the UW line from getting set. The guy was mentally overwhelmed by the moment. Totally so and tick-tock goes the clock.


I'm done on this. The issue has been settled for those smart enough to get it. Score's in the books. Wisconsin and the refs get a big loss. Arizona State gets a win. Might have been a well-earned win but for sixteen dissolved seconds. We'll never know but it wasn't their fault.

Oh well.

I still don't see how placing the ball on the ground simulates taking a knee. He should have handed the ball to the ref. Secondly if his knee did touch the ground as per the picture, no simulation was needed and this whole discussion is pointless. Perhaps the coach will trust his kicker can make a 12 yarder from the hash next time.

S2
18 Sep 13,, 05:29
"I still don't see how placing the ball on the ground simulates taking a knee."

I know.

"He should have handed the ball to the ref. Secondly if his knee did touch the ground as per the picture, no simulation was needed and this whole discussion is pointless."

No. He did right. The ball was down where he was. Marking that spot with the ball centers the team and saves looking for the ref. That was Andersen's intent and this exact approach had been used successfully by him in the past. Stave properly executed Andersen's intent but your refs were thoroughly asleep at the wheel with zero sense of urgency. Never the case when ASU had the ball. Nor could they be surprised by the moment. Or could they?

You've argued fumbles, knees, tactics, kickers, etc. You've ignored photos, rule quotes and even a reprimand from your own conference.

Thanks for jerking my chain. I'm certain you'll understand if I excuse myself to puke.

bonehead
18 Sep 13,, 18:07
"I still don't see how placing the ball on the ground simulates taking a knee."

I know.

"He should have handed the ball to the ref. Secondly if his knee did touch the ground as per the picture, no simulation was needed and this whole discussion is pointless."

No. He did right. The ball was down where he was. Marking that spot with the ball centers the team and saves looking for the ref. That was Andersen's intent and this exact approach had been used successfully by him in the past. Stave properly executed Andersen's intent but your refs were thoroughly asleep at the wheel with zero sense of urgency. Never the case when ASU had the ball. Nor could they be surprised by the moment. Or could they?

You've argued fumbles, knees, tactics, kickers, etc. You've ignored photos, rule quotes and even a reprimand from your own conference.

Thanks for jerking my chain. I'm certain you'll understand if I excuse myself to puke.

Wisconsin has a history of choking at the end of close games so you should be used to it by now. You don't have to like it but it is what it is.

No I haven't ignored any of the evidence you presented. I only looked at it objectively. BTW Oregon, with the fast offense, taught the players to give the ball to the ref so they can line up faster. Perhaps you can show me in the rule book where a player can take over the refs job and spot the ball. Secondly I ask again was he down because his knee hit the ground or because of a "simulation" of downing his knee. You have argued both but there can be only one.

Minskaya
18 Sep 13,, 19:42
Wisconsin has a history of choking at the end of close games so you should be used to it by now. You don't have to like it but it is what it is.

No I haven't ignored any of the evidence you presented. I only looked at it objectively. BTW Oregon, with the fast offense, taught the players to give the ball to the ref so they can line up faster. Perhaps you can show me in the rule book where a player can take over the refs job and spot the ball. Secondly I ask again was he down because his knee hit the ground or because of a "simulation" of downing his knee. You have argued both but there can be only one.
You either just don't get it or you'll blissfully ignore shoddy officiating if the result is a W.

According to the NCAA rules manual (Rule 4, Article 2, Section A), the ball is dead if "an official sounds his whistle (even though inadvertently) or otherwise signals the ball dead.". ✓ DONE

The same Rule 4 also states that the play is dead "when a ball carrier simulates placing his knee on the ground." ✓ DONE

To any fair-minded observer, the officiating crew exhibited utter confusion and total incompetence in that sequence.

The PAC 12 agrees with this analysis...

A statement released by the conference said commissioner Larry Scott was taking "additional sanctions against officials" for their failure to "properly administer the end of game situation and act with appropriate urgency on the game's final play." "This was an unusual situation to end the game," Scott said in the statement. "After a thorough review, we have determined that the officials fell short of the high standard in which Pac-12 games should be managed.

They didn't just fall short. They fell far short.

S2
18 Sep 13,, 21:24
"Wisconsin has a history of choking at the end of close games so you should be used to it by now. You don't have to like it but it is what it is."

You are correct that Wisconsin hasn't lost a game by more than seven points since early 2010 (-10 to Michigan State on the road). Close losses all. That said, I'm fascinated by your exclusion of our last moment victories. It's actually happened-recently even.:rolleyes: I'd offer a #7th ranked Iowa in 2010 and Michigan State in the 2011 Big Ten Championship game.

Even your sense of history is terribly skewed.

I sense a smarmy agenda. Too bad. It'll color your offered perspectives going forward.

bonehead
19 Sep 13,, 05:39
"Wisconsin has a history of choking at the end of close games so you should be used to it by now. You don't have to like it but it is what it is."

You are correct that Wisconsin hasn't lost a game by more than seven points since early 2010 (-10 to Michigan State on the road). Close losses all. That said, I'm fascinated by your exclusion of our last moment victories. It's actually happened-recently even.:rolleyes: I'd offer a #7th ranked Iowa in 2010 and Michigan State in the 2011 Big Ten Championship game.

Even your sense of history is terribly skewed.

I sense a smarmy agenda. Too bad. It'll color your offered perspectives going forward.

Now now. I was not the one starting the thread about losing another close one. The whole thread was about another loss decided in the final seconds. If you want to relive some of the glory games and I am sure there are many, I have no problems with that. I just have no patience listening to a grown man cry....unless it is me.

bonehead
19 Sep 13,, 06:02
You either just don't get it or you'll blissfully ignore shoddy officiating if the result is a W.


Um no. The officiating may have cost Wisconsin a chance at a winning field goal. They still could have missed it or it could have been blocked.





According to the NCAA rules manual (Rule 4, Article 2, Section A), the ball is dead if "an official sounds his whistle (even though inadvertently) or otherwise signals the ball dead.". ✓ DONE



Have you been to the ground level at a college football game? Good luck hearing the whistle.





The same Rule 4 also states that the play is dead "when a ball carrier simulates placing his knee on the ground." ✓ DONE



If you watch college football at all you would see this at the end of games to kill time and during kickoffs. The ball handler makes a conscious effort to drop a knee. Never do you see them just put the ball on the ground as in this instance. Nor did you see any effort of a simulation from this QB. What you see is him nearly falling when he runs into his own lineman then puts the ball on the ground.


To any fair-minded observer, the officiating crew exhibited utter confusion and total incompetence in that sequence.


I am fair minded. I don't have a dog in this fight as I am no ASU fan. I have also seen comparative and worse officiating from refs from the Pac-12 and other conferences. If you pay attention you would know that from start to finish that was a highly unusual and bizarre play. The officials were confused, the players from both teams were confused and even the announcers were confused. This whole thread was armchair quarterbacking after the fact.



The PAC 12 agrees with this analysis...


They didn't just fall short. They fell far short.



Get real. This was for appeasement. If this happened at the end of the half you wouldn't have heard a peep from the Pac-12 or any other league. Ask S2 or any other diehard Wisconsin fan if any of the official statement makes them feel better. If the league really felt the officiating was bad enough to change the outcome they should have vacated the win.

Minskaya
19 Sep 13,, 08:29
Get real. This was for appeasement. If this happened at the end of the half you wouldn't have heard a peep from the Pac-12 or any other league. Ask S2 or any other diehard Wisconsin fan if any of the official statement makes them feel better. If the league really felt the officiating was bad enough to change the outcome they should have vacated the win.
Collegiate football is a nasty business based on money. Nothing short of seamy Penn State scandal would convince A$U/PAC-12 to part with a W that is potentially worth millions.

As is obvious in this thread, the rot goes very deep.

bonehead
19 Sep 13,, 18:10
Collegiate football is a nasty business based on money. Nothing short of seamy Penn State scandal would convince A$U/PAC-12 to part with a W that is potentially worth millions.

As is obvious in this thread, the rot goes very deep.

That is exactly why a third party needs to ride herd over the refs. Until recently we didn't have the technology ie cameras but now very little happens on the field that the cameras don't pick up. Games can be reviewed in their entirety and checked for obvious biases, incompetence, etc and obvious offenders need to be fired...not even allowed to ref a craps game in a back ally somewhere. That needs to be done if the game is to have any resemblance of integrity. There will always be missed calls because no ref can see and interpret at 100% accuracy in real time. Like everyone else refs have good days and bad days. Not much can be done about that. Just part of the human factor of the game.

Albany Rifles
19 Sep 13,, 19:20
"Next time take a knee. Make the decision for them."

Ummm...isn't that what my posted photo just showed? Stave taking a knee?:confused:

Deuce,

My point was what I was taught from playing ball for 12 years. There are 2 rules regarding officials.

1. Conduct yourself in a manner which will not require interpretation on the part of the officials.

2. See Rule #1.

That the officials screwed the pooch is without a doubt.

However, the QBs actions were such that the head linesman and referee both believed he had not kneeled down and over ruled the back judge. Bad call, for sure and the Badgers got jobbed.

However Wisconsin forgot Rule #1.

S2
19 Sep 13,, 21:56
It IS a nasty business. More so than ever. Bonehead won't admit it but his position arises from pleasure in seeing ASU rise. All about the SOS when Oregon plays ASU because that's a key contributor to rankings, hence bowl championship series. I know that. Further it fcuks Wisconsin royally where we to do the impossible and BEAT tOSU in Columbus two weeks from now.

That's entirely conceivable. The ASU travesty would only be highlighted further.

A prefunctory reprimand? Sure. Can't hurt the cause by doing the RIGHT thing which is nullify the results. I'd be curious if Vegas paid out on the bets. I sure wouldn't.

Albany Rifles
19 Sep 13,, 22:52
NCAA Football....a multi-billion dollar business where the labor force goes unpaid.

Blademaster
19 Sep 13,, 23:17
NCAA Football....a multi-billion dollar business where the labor force goes unpaid.

That is something that always bothers me and makes me lose big support for NCAA. I am not saying salary wise but there are other ways of compensation. Players should be compensated such as comprehensive health insurance for life and vocational/job training and living expenses stipend. Most of these football players don't even qualify for university education but were let in through special circumstances so they could play football and make money for the universities. It is a tragedy that most of these college football players devote 4 years of their life to playing hard football that will rob years of their health and life and will not get the chance to make millions of dollars.

However player likeness for video gaming and merchandise, these players should receive a check.

If these players do not get those kind of benefits or some form of compensation, I do not see a reason why the NCAA execs should receive multimillion dollars paychecks. They should volunteer and fall back on their university pay.

bonehead
20 Sep 13,, 04:41
It IS a nasty business. More so than ever. Bonehead won't admit it but his position arises from pleasure in seeing ASU rise. All about the SOS when Oregon plays ASU because that's a key contributor to rankings, hence bowl championship series. I know that. Further it fcuks Wisconsin royally where we to do the impossible and BEAT tOSU in Columbus two weeks from now.

That's entirely conceivable. The ASU travesty would only be highlighted further.

A prefunctory reprimand? Sure. Can't hurt the cause by doing the RIGHT thing which is nullify the results. I'd be curious if Vegas paid out on the bets. I sure wouldn't.

Oregon does not play ASU this year. Try again. As long as Oregon wins out it is doubtful anyone is going to leapfrog them.

As long as Wisconsin doesn't get cute in the waining seconds I can even root for them vs OSU, but maybe not as then you would say that I only wanted OSU to lose to give Oregon some breathing room. I just can't win here.

S2
20 Sep 13,, 22:51
"Oregon does not play ASU this year."

Most of the PAC 12 shall. It will still have a bearing on your SOS.

bonehead
21 Sep 13,, 04:05
"Oregon does not play ASU this year."

Most of the PAC 12 shall. It will still have a bearing on your SOS.

We are talking the Pac-12 not the SEC.
The effects from the SOS will be minimal. Especially when you see ASU in the middle of the pack or worse by the end of season.

S2
21 Sep 13,, 05:03
The middle to bottom of the SEC isn't worth a damn either. As for ASU, maybe you're correct anyway. We'll know a bit more by how they play on the road against Stanford this weekend.

Nonetheless the effect, however "minimal", may be sufficient to provide Oregon's margin. Let's hope not. It may be very close at the top and I'm sure Oregon wishes to earn everything they get.

bonehead
21 Sep 13,, 05:26
The middle to bottom of the SEC isn't worth a damn either. As for ASU, maybe you're correct anyway. We'll know a bit more by how they play on the road against Stanford this weekend.

Nonetheless the effect, however "minimal", may be sufficient to provide Oregon's margin. Let's hope not. It may be very close at the top and I'm sure Oregon wishes to earn everything they get.

With the B.S system in place many teams who have earned a spot at the big dance are too often turned away. IMO very few teams earn the National Championship and that is not about to change until we have a legit playoff in place. What we have in the future, a 4 team playoff, is only a baby step in the right direction. Right now college football suffers because too many big names fear losing to a great non conference team early in the season and their hopes for a shot of the N.C. game is dashed from the get go. It should be "win your conference and move on". The second and third place finishers can go bowling.

bonehead
06 Oct 13,, 04:44
Watched Georgia come from behind and take Tennessee in OT. An entertaining game but I have to say Oregon was much more impressive playing Tennessee.
Upset alert. The beginning of the 4th and NW has 3 points on OSU.

bonehead
07 Oct 13,, 04:45
Watched Georgia come from behind and take Tennessee in OT. An entertaining game but I have to say Oregon was much more impressive playing Tennessee.
Upset alert. The beginning of the 4th and NW has 3 points on OSU.

OSU pulled their bacon out of the fire just in time. Another fun game to watch.

bonehead
01 Dec 13,, 03:52
A wild last weekend and quite a few great games payed. My Ducks are out of any BCS picture this year but my consolation is that we will finally have a National Championship game that won't have an SEC team playing. The B.S. system will have to tweak the computers pretty hard to come up with anything but OSU vs FSU. If a one loss SEC does squeak in over an undefeated team there will be outright rebellion and with good reason. I expect a great bowling season this year. Good luck to all.

bonehead
08 Dec 13,, 04:21
Taken from espn on the the ASU-Standford Pac-12 championship game:

ASU clearly hasn't paid off the refs for this game.

-Wisonsin

bonehead
08 Dec 13,, 04:21
Taken from espn on the the ASU-Standford Pac-12 championship game:

ASU clearly hasn't paid off the refs for this game.

-Wisonsin

bonehead
21 Dec 13,, 23:37
The most wonderful time of the year…….BOWLING Season.

bonehead
31 Dec 13,, 07:07
The defense showed up tonight and the Ducks throttled Texas. Helfrich has a lot to improve on though. Lots of great football just ahead.

bonehead
02 Jan 14,, 04:22
Lots of good football played today. Some sloppy play from the lay off but nothing that couldn't be fixed with a play-off.

bonehead
07 Jan 14,, 07:14
The ride is over the last bowl is done. The "mighty" big boy SEC conference lost to the lowly ACC for the National Championship. FSU over Auburn 34-21. Hopefully we will not have to endure another season with ESPN and the sportswriters bellowing about how invincible the SEC is as their two best teams. Auburn and Alabama failed to notch any wins post season. Sigh. Its going to be a long wait until next August.

S2
07 Jan 14,, 07:23
"...The "mighty" big boy SEC conference lost to the lowly ACC for the National Championship..."

Everything about FSU reeks SEC. They might ostensibly be A.C.C. but I clearly remember an independant FSU. Do trust that the culture in Tallahassee is FAR closer to Tuscaloosa or Baton Rouge than, ummm...Charlottesville? Nevermind the locale.

Make no mistake. This was a conference matchup tonight for all intents and purposes.

Certainly disproved nothing about the power of football down south.

bonehead
07 Jan 14,, 17:34
[B]

Make no mistake. This was a conference matchup tonight for all intents and purposes.

Certainly disproved nothing about the power of football down south.

I am not contesting the power of football down south. Just the fact that it is not just the SEC and the best everyone else can aspire to second place.