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Defcon5
10 Sep 13,, 20:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIbl28O99Lg

I blame the media for this, I wonder what America will become when idiots like these gets elected and get power..(power people like him made and sustain)

Red Team
10 Sep 13,, 20:28
Wait I'm confused...do you honest to god think David Petraeus is a war criminal or are you in contempt of my sadly misinformed peers calling him as such?

Defcon5
10 Sep 13,, 20:33
Wait I'm confused...do you honest to god think David Petraeus is a war criminal or are you in contempt of my sadly misinformed peers calling him as such?

What?
I think Gen. Petraeus is a Hero. I was disappointed with his personal life, but that is none of my concern in the greater scheme of things.

I think America is going towards its demise, and its not because of China or Islam. But rather its youth. What a disgusting behavior.

Red Team
10 Sep 13,, 20:48
What?
I think Gen. Petraeus is a Hero. I was disappointed with his personal life, but that is none of my concern in the greater scheme of things.

I think America is going towards its demise, and its not because of China or Islam. But rather its youth. What a disgusting behavior.

Sorry I thought the wording in your first post was a little weird. As a student of the SUNY/CUNY system I can confidently say that this particular group of my peers are by no means the norm (they're kinda douches to be honest). Even the most pacifistic, anti-war students in general respect our active and former serviceman regardless of stature, rank or politics.

desertswo
10 Sep 13,, 21:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIbl28O99Lg

I blame the media for this, I wonder what America will become when idiots like these gets elected and get power..(power people like him made and sustain)

Uh, where were you when Clinton and Dickhead, err, I mean Obama got elected? It's already happened partner; more than once.

Defcon5
10 Sep 13,, 21:09
Uh, where were you when Clinton and Dickhead, err, I mean Obama got elected? It's already happened partner; more than once.

Sir,

I believe they are sane, intelligent and even patriotic in front of these idiots. American education system and its own hypocrisy ( that it is always right and is the champion of freedom etc etc, which is an impossible title to achieve in our world, has led to this confused situation). America is not an utopia nor is the world.

desertswo
10 Sep 13,, 22:51
Sir,

I believe they are sane, intelligent and even patriotic in front of these idiots. American education system and its own hypocrisy ( that it is always right and is the champion of freedom etc etc, which is an impossible title to achieve in our world, has led to this confused situation). America is not an utopia nor is the world.

Please don't be offended, but I am curious about your age. Those of us who have been around a while, and maybe even witnessed such events as a peer of like-minded people "back in the day" would tell you Clinton and Obama are exactly that sort of person. It's what they did; in Clinton's case, in another country even.

JAD_333
10 Sep 13,, 22:58
This is nothing new in the annals of American history. I saw stuff like this and worse during the Vietnam war protests.

He handled it like a man, unlike Weiner, that sorry politician who verbally attacked a man in a deli for saying he shouldn't run for mayor.

I would have loved to see some vets show up while all this was going on.

tbm3fan
10 Sep 13,, 23:46
What?
I think Gen. Petraeus is a Hero. I was disappointed with his personal life, but that is none of my concern in the greater scheme of things.

I think America is going towards its demise, and its not because of China or Islam. But rather its youth. What a disgusting behavior.


Not really. There has always been a fringe group of students throughout the decades. Berkeley was full of them back in the days. Not so much now at least the students. San Francisco State was also the same and still shows some even to this day. I guess the tuition sorts them out between the two schools nowadays. Then there are the professional protestors who are of student age but not necessarily students. San Francisco is full of them and they are usually seen out in force in something like this. They were recently protesting Syrian involvement. I'm not thrilled with Syrian involvement but I am not out in the street in my button down shirt and tie. However, the pictures of those that were really brought back a sense of deja vu in that it is 2013 and then it was 1970. Ah, the TV screen memories.

In 1984 I met an older gentleman as a patient. As we talked I told him that he looked familiar from the past but couldn't quite place him yet but it was back in time. Handed me his card which said retired deputy chief CHP. Now I remembered seeing him on TV once. He told me that was when Reagan sent the CHP into Berkeley due to the People's Park protests and he was in charge. He then retired shortly after as he wasn't thrilled with that use of the CHP. Anyway he became a good friend till he passed away a few years back at around 90. Had many great stories for me dating back to a motorcycle cop in Marin 1940. This fellow I miss.

Red Team
11 Sep 13,, 00:02
I just seriously can't comprehend that degree of ignorance at all, at least have the damn common sense to actually research the man before passing judgment. But no apparently that's too much work. Instead let's go harass the guy in public, spitting out uncultured epithets and baseless rhetoric in an attempt to satisfy some distorted sense of justice and self-satisfaction. Bunch of effin' dumbass, liberal art majoring psudo-intellectuals they are.

And this is coming from a center-left progressive. (Pardon my French)

Blademaster
11 Sep 13,, 00:18
Uh, where were you when Clinton and Dickhead, err, I mean Obama got elected? It's already happened partner; more than once.

And Bush and his master, Dick Chenym the chickenhawk, doesn't count?

desertswo
11 Sep 13,, 00:22
And Bush and his master, Dick Chenym the chickenhawk, doesn't count?

Not in this instance; the subject was protesting idiots who get elected and gain power. Not the old fashioned idiots who just went to Yale and Harvard like the old man, and inherited the positions of power. Either way, I have no use for them.

Blademaster
11 Sep 13,, 00:31
Not in this instance; the subject was protesting idiots who get elected and gain power. Not the old fashioned idiots who just went to Yale and Harvard like the old man, and inherited the positions of power. Either way, I have no use for them.

very selective memory right there.

desertswo
11 Sep 13,, 00:41
very selective memory right there.

Why, I wasn't complimentary of either brand? Like I said, I have no use for either flavor. Again, the topic was advanced that we should fear protester types being elected. I merely said that a bunch of such dickheads already had been elected. Bush and Chaney are different kinds of dickheads, but dickheads just the same.

Blademaster
11 Sep 13,, 00:45
Why, I wasn't complimentary of either brand? Like I said, I have no use for either flavor. Again, the topic was advanced that we should fear protester types being elected. I merely said that a bunch of such dickheads already had been elected. Bush and Chaney are different kinds of dickheads, but dickheads just the same.

My apologies.

gunnut
11 Sep 13,, 01:23
And Bush and his master, Dick Chenym the chickenhawk, doesn't count?

Roosey? Is that you? I was wondering where you have been over the last half year.

troung
11 Sep 13,, 01:29
It's a college campus... of course such wonderful people are there to study gender relations and rail at a retired General...

bonehead
11 Sep 13,, 06:54
Until now I never wished anyone was in the world trade center on 9/11/01. That video changed my mind. By ignoring them and not saying a word Petraeus outsmarted and outclassed them all.

Triple C
11 Sep 13,, 08:23
People who are really studying tend not to spend time protesting on things they don't know about. I know medical students protesting specific hospital policies, public education folks protesting city school closures, and the such. There are also people who would protest anything but don't go to classes. Actually I am willing to bet some of the young people showing up in campus demonstrations are not students at all.

Defcon5
11 Sep 13,, 08:46
Please don't be offended, but I am curious about your age. Those of us who have been around a while, and maybe even witnessed such events as a peer of like-minded people "back in the day" would tell you Clinton and Obama are exactly that sort of person. It's what they did; in Clinton's case, in another country even.

Sir,

I am 31. Atleast for a non American who does not have the baggage of American internal politics and its dynamics. We see no difference in Foreign Policy between Democrats and Republicans in the larger context of the geo political world.

Americans, I have always felt were very aware of what they want to achieve in this world and worked towards it. I see a growing number of young people who were always brought up in the notion that Americans are the upholder of democracy and human rights, everything can be achieved by diplomacy, to put it short I see Americans changing into Europeans, especially the Scandinavian kind. The power vacum caused by that generational attitudinal change, will make Russians, Indians and Chinese to take advantage. Americans always held the view, that it is a big bad world and they needed a big stick to make it work their way. Will that attitude remain? It is the attitude that made America.

Doktor
11 Sep 13,, 09:08
Sir,

I am 31. Atleast for a non American who does not have the baggage of American internal politics and its dynamics. We see no difference in Foreign Policy between Democrats and Republicans in the larger context of the geo political world.

Americans, I have always felt were very aware of what they want to achieve in this world and worked towards it. I see a growing number of young people who were always brought up in the notion that Americans are the upholder of democracy and human rights, everything can be achieved by diplomacy, to put it short I see Americans changing into Europeans, especially the Scandinavian kind. The power vacum caused by that generational attitudinal change, will make Russians, Indians and Chinese to take advantage. Americans always held the view, that it is a big bad world and they needed a big stick to make it work their way. Will that attitude remain? It is the attitude that made America.

There is another attitude that made USA, IMV. That's called being responsible for yourself. Work hard, earn what you need and live better then the rest of the world. According to the posts around I think that attitude is in decline and seems like the people want the big daddy aka the Gov to take care for everything.

tbm3fan
11 Sep 13,, 09:10
Sir,

I am 31. Atleast for a non American who does not have the baggage of American internal politics and its dynamics. We see no difference in Foreign Policy between Democrats and Republicans in the larger context of the geo political world.

Americans, I have always felt were very aware of what they want to achieve in this world and worked towards it. I see a growing number of young people who were always brought up in the notion that Americans are the upholder of democracy and human rights, everything can be achieved by diplomacy, to put it short I see Americans changing into Europeans, especially the Scandinavian kind. The power vacum caused by that generational attitudinal change, will make Russians, Indians and Chinese to take advantage. Americans always held the view, that it is a big bad world and they needed a big stick to make it work their way. Will that attitude remain? It is the attitude that made America.

You may have something there. Most young Americans are so turned into themselves, their technology and trying to find a job that all else pales. Assuming you can get their attention. On the other hand when the USS Pueblo was taken in 1968 (me 15) I felt we should kick their ever loving ass across the ocean and back. I wasn't a fan of Vietnam, for many reasons, but seizing an American vessel was a different ballgame. I understand wanting to get the crew back but then right after should have nailed the North. Still do to this day by starting with getting rid of their museum.

Yes, sometimes you can't pussyfoot around. Unfortunately we have done that several times with US Navy ships :pari:

Defcon5
11 Sep 13,, 10:28
There is another attitude that made USA, IMV. That's called being responsible for yourself. Work hard, earn what you need and live better then the rest of the world. According to the posts around I think that attitude is in decline and seems like the people want the big daddy aka the Gov to take care for everything.


You may have something there. Most young Americans are so turned into themselves, their technology and trying to find a job that all else pales. Assuming you can get their attention. On the other hand when the USS Pueblo was taken in 1968 (me 15) I felt we should kick their ever loving ass across the ocean and back. I wasn't a fan of Vietnam, for many reasons, but seizing an American vessel was a different ballgame. I understand wanting to get the crew back but then right after should have nailed the North. Still do to this day by starting with getting rid of their museum.

Yes, sometimes you can't pussyfoot around. Unfortunately we have done that several times with US Navy ships :pari:


This is what I mean,

I see American decline, that they will not be able to produce leaders, nor is the public ready to understand the world clearly as they used to.
Americans understood the world better before, it is a bad world.
I think they drank their own kool aid of we are good guys, we dont do mistakes, we uphold human rights and bugled out that into the media glare. It was a good media strategy, but it was NOT a good geo political strategy. It ties your hands. Americans cant accept mistakes ( which happens in war), gore, hypocrisy ( which is what geo politics is) and body bags ( happens when you lead the world in wars). There is a reason Bashar came on Charlie Rose. There is a reason idiots like that are on the rise.

Americans don't understand, that it is their own hegemony,hypocrisy and big stick which lets the lead a comfortable lives and not to mention have something unbelievable as Dollar as the reserve currency of the world, and get cheap gas. Indians and Chinese would do anything short of nuking the entire world to get such a deal. Americans are lucky and fortunate. They didnt become that being the nice guys or the fair guys.

Mihais
11 Sep 13,, 10:39
This is what I mean,

I see American decline, that they will not be able to produce leaders, nor is the public ready to understand the world clearly as they used to.
Americans understood the world better before, it is a bad world.
I think they drank their own kool aid of we are good guys, we dont do mistakes, we uphold human rights and bugled out that into the media glare. It was a good media strategy, but it was a good geo political strategy. It ties your hands. Americans cant accept mistakes ( which happens in war), gore, hypocrisy ( which is what geo politics is) and body bags ( happens when you lead the world in wars). There is a reason Bashar came on Charlie Rose. There is a reason idiots like that are on the rise.

Americans don't understand, that it is their own hegemony,hypocrisy and big stick which lets the lead a comfortable lives and not to mention have something unbelievable as Dollar as the reserve currency of the world, and get cheap gas. Indians and Chinese would do anything short of nuking the entire world to get such a deal. Americans are lucky and fortunate. They didnt become that being the nice guys or the fair guys.

Wait until a reaction to what you describe begins to raise its head,both in US and Europe.The two sides can't see eye to eye.
Fukuyama was so wrong.History did not came to an end.It's just bussiness as usual.The old cycle of rise and decline,of moderation that goes to far and leads to extremism,which softens after it achieves proeminence.

desertswo
11 Sep 13,, 10:50
I think all of ya'll need to take a chill pill and relax. We've been here before. We'll be here again.

Blademaster
11 Sep 13,, 14:11
Roosey? Is that you? I was wondering where you have been over the last half year.

You viewing through the kaleidoscope again? :rolleyes:

desertswo
11 Sep 13,, 15:43
My apologies.

Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis . . .

gunnut
11 Sep 13,, 21:01
You viewing through the kaleidoscope again? :rolleyes:

Roosey has a tendency to bring up Bush whenever there's criticism of Obama/democrats/liberals.

You are doing the same thing.

Blademaster
11 Sep 13,, 22:52
Roosey has a tendency to bring up Bush whenever there's criticism of Obama/democrats/liberals.

You are doing the same thing.

Yes I will as long as they are engaging in selective memory when applying criticism of Obama/Bush/democrats/republicans/liberals/conservatives. Since there have been a lot of Obama bashing and very little defending Obama, so I have taken up the mantle to keep this website on an even keel to prevent such websites such as Tanknet from being extreme right wing parroting websites.

gunnut
11 Sep 13,, 23:16
Yes I will as long as they are engaging in selective memory when applying criticism of Obama/Bush/democrats/republicans/liberals/conservatives. Since there have been a lot of Obama bashing and very little defending Obama, so I have taken up the mantle to keep this website on an even keel to prevent such websites such as Tanknet from being extreme right wing parroting websites.

I don't begrudge you for defending Obama.

What you are doing is not defending Obama. You are doing "well Bush did this..."

Here's a good example: Clinton was accused of rape. Well...Bush was a drunk. OK, that maybe so, but how does Bush being a drunk excuse Clinton of being accused as a rapist? Bin Laden killed thousands of Americans on 9-11. Yeah...but Bush killed hundreds of thousands of Arabs/muslims. OK, does that make what Bin Laden did OK with you?

That's the thing I'm talking about.

antimony
12 Sep 13,, 05:05
This is nothing new in the annals of American history. I saw stuff like this and worse during the Vietnam war protests.

He handled it like a man, unlike Weiner, that sorry politician who verbally attacked a man in a deli for saying he shouldn't run for mayor.


I am not a great fan of Weiner (I think his name is perfect). But that deli guy called his wife an Arab. Not that there is anything wrong in being an Arab, but the guy was clearly being insulting

JAD_333
12 Sep 13,, 06:26
I am not a great fan of Weiner (I think his name is perfect). But that deli guy called his wife an Arab. Not that there is anything wrong in being an Arab, but the guy was clearly being insulting

Thanks. I didn't know that. All the same, Petraeus handled his hecklers with steadfast dignity.

Oracle
12 Sep 13,, 13:51
These people are so mired in their self that they need to be put into solitary confinement for a month, so that they learn how not to abuse the right to freedom of speech they so brazenly exploit with impunity.

Doktor
12 Sep 13,, 14:22
I am not a great fan of Weiner (I think his name is perfect). But that deli guy called his wife an Arab. Not that there is anything wrong in being an Arab, but the guy was clearly being insulting
Why'd he say that? She is of Indian origin, but born as American.

Mihais
12 Sep 13,, 14:26
Why'd he say that? She is of Indian origin, but born as American.

A brown woman,not Mexican.Definetely Arab. :biggrin:

Doktor
12 Sep 13,, 14:36
But then, how can it be meant to be insulting?

If I assume you are Hungarian and call you Hungarian, would you be insulted?

Defcon5
12 Sep 13,, 15:25
Why'd he say that? She is of Indian origin, but born as American.

Pakistani Origin

Doktor
12 Sep 13,, 15:35
If we go to splitting hairs Wiki says her father is born in India, her mother in Pakistan.

Anyway, not an Arab, by a mile.

desertswo
12 Sep 13,, 17:30
These people are so mired in their self that they need to be put into solitary confinement for a month, so that they learn how not to abuse the right to freedom of speech they so brazenly exploit with impunity.

Unfortunately, what you witness there is the price we pay for the 1st Amendment. We swim daily in a veritable sea of boorish behavior such as that shown in the video, but the freedom of speech and assembly guaranteed by the Constitution and its Bill of Rights is a pearl beyond price. I apologize for posting the video below for the second time in recent weeks, but it so perfectly illustrates the point that every once in a while, that same document facilitates a real gem that makes the rest bearable.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98k-pjN6nl0

Mihais
12 Sep 13,, 18:31
But then, how can it be meant to be insulting?

If I assume you are Hungarian and call you Hungarian, would you be insulted?

I won't care,but there is a lot of stupid in this world.

Dreadnought
12 Sep 13,, 23:33
You may have something there. Most young Americans are so turned into themselves, their technology and trying to find a job that all else pales. Assuming you can get their attention. On the other hand when the USS Pueblo was taken in 1968 (me 15) I felt we should kick their ever loving ass across the ocean and back. I wasn't a fan of Vietnam, for many reasons, but seizing an American vessel was a different ballgame. I understand wanting to get the crew back but then right after should have nailed the North. Still do to this day by starting with getting rid of their museum.

Yes, sometimes you can't pussyfoot around. Unfortunately we have done that several times with US Navy ships :pari:

And "IF" by chance we must pay them an "un-social call" in the future we should do ourselves the honor of putting the old lady down for good with the former crews blessings.

aerosol
14 Sep 13,, 07:44
I think he handled that confrontation pretty well. But of course, he is a military man so a few anti-war protesters ain't gonna budge him in the first place. Maybe he will be on the ticket for President or Vice-President in 2016 as a modern day Bonaparte type neo con?

Status Quo
23 Sep 13,, 08:35
People who are really studying tend not to spend time protesting on things they don't know about. I know medical students protesting specific hospital policies, public education folks protesting city school closures, and the such. There are also people who would protest anything but don't go to classes. Actually I am willing to bet some of the young people showing up in campus demonstrations are not students at all.

I would say, people in general that are protesting (not just students) tend not to know very much about the issue at hand. Rarely have I seen a protester (to similar protests to the one in the video- not med students, etc) display the nuances, intricacies, and depth to an issue at hand (this varies, I',m speaking in general terms). Rather it seems that people have a ideological view of the world, and they attempt to mold any issue to fit that framework. People use heuristics to reach there abrupt conclusions, because it's a hell a lot easier than engaging in deliberate, diligent thought. If you read "Thinking Fast and Thinking Slow," it will argue my point in more depth (and it's a hell a lot better than my crappy writing). Also, cognitive dissonance may be at work with a lot of these protesters and similar ones.

Furthermore, protesting, like as in the video, has nearly no chance of success (depending on their interests). For achieving their goal of convicting P. of war crimes is zero to none. Getting a reaction from P. is a possibility, but in reality what they hell is the point of that- an attempt to discredit the man?

JAD_333
23 Sep 13,, 17:13
Status:

Good post, but don't overlook the viral nature of social media and pseudo news sites. The very ignorance that you mention is a vacuum, into which popular misconceptions find a happy home, especially among the idealistic and highly biased. Because these little demonstrations can be posted on line in video format, they get coverage they would never have 20-30 years ago. That is why the general was smart to just keep walking as if nothing was going on. One untoward remark from him or even an attempt to engage the mob in discussion would have given the video greater prominence.

Glad to see you jumping in on these topics.

TopHatter
23 Sep 13,, 17:55
Maybe he will be on the ticket for President or Vice-President in 2016 as a modern day Bonaparte type neo con?
Not likely. If Paula Broadwell had never met him, then maybe. Now? Not in a million years.

JAD_333
23 Sep 13,, 19:46
Not likely. If Paula Broadwell had never met him, then maybe. Now? Not in a million years.

Agree. But I can see a sr position for him, like SecDef, although I don't think former flag officers can ride that seat without running into problems with some of the services. But he's a pragmatist and could do well in the seat.

Defcon5
23 Sep 13,, 20:57
Not likely. If Paula Broadwell had never met him, then maybe. Now? Not in a million years.

I dont know about that though, Americans elected Clinton for the second term.