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Minskaya
29 Aug 13,, 09:18
Judge apologizes for teen rape remarks, but defends sentence
AUGUST 29, 2013

http://cdn.photo.lasvegassun.com/media/img/photos/2013/08/28/scaled.Judge_t653.jpg?214bc4f9d9bd7c08c7d0f6599bb3 328710e01e7b

BILLINGS, Mont. A Montana judge on Wednesday stood by his decision to send a former teacher to prison for 30 days for raping a 14-year-old girl who later killed herself, but said he "deserved to be chastised" for his comments about the young victim. District Judge G. Todd Baugh sentenced former Billings Senior High School teacher Stacey Rambold to 15 years, then suspended all but 31 days and gave him credit for one day already served. In handing down the sentence Monday, Baugh said the teenage victim was "older than her chronological age" and had as much control of the situation as the teacher who raped her.

Rambold was charged in October 2008 with three counts of sexual intercourse without consent after authorities alleged he had an ongoing sexual relationship with Cherice Moralez, starting the previous year when she was 14. Moralez killed herself in 2010 at age 16 while the case was pending, and the girl's mother, Auleia Hanlon, said her daughter's relationship with Rambold was a "major factor." Hanlon said in a statement to the Gazette that she no longer believes in justice after Baugh's sentence and remarks about her daughter. "She wasn't even old enough to get a driver's license. But Judge Baugh, who never met our daughter, justified the paltry sentence saying she was older than her chronological age," Hanlon said. "I guess somehow it makes a rape more acceptable if you blame the victim, even if she was only 14." Under state law, children younger than 16 cannot consent to sexual intercourse.

Baugh was first elected to the bench in 1984 and has been re-elected every six years since then without an opponent. He said he has no plans to resign and he has not decided whether to run again in 2014.
Source: Las Vegas Sun (http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2013/aug/28/judge-apologizes-teen-rape-remarks-defends-sentenc/)

Raped numerous times by a teacher and committed suicide. And now, Justice herself has been raped.

dave lukins
29 Aug 13,, 10:29
Is there a system where this sentence can be challenged by a higher Court and the Judge himself made to explain his insulting remarks?

Bigfella
29 Aug 13,, 10:41
Pretty bloody ordinary for mine.

Doktor
29 Aug 13,, 11:02
Is there a system where this sentence can be challenged by a higher Court and the Judge himself made to explain his insulting remarks?
I am sure there is and someone should take the case all the way.

zraver
29 Aug 13,, 16:24
Is there a system where this sentence can be challenged by a higher Court and the Judge himself made to explain his insulting remarks?

At the state level no, its done. Unless there is evidence that the judge was corrupted anyway. The only avenue now is a federal civil rights indictment or some other federal crime like the Mann Act if it can be proven he took the girl across a stare line for immoral purposes.

Doktor
29 Aug 13,, 16:27
Z,

There is no higher court at state level? To appeal the verdict? Weird.

JAD_333
29 Aug 13,, 17:04
No double jeopardy. Prosecutors can't appeal. Like Z says, he could be charged with another crime. A civil rights violation is often used in these cases.

Rape here was technical...a person in that state under age 16 cannot be considered to have consented to intercourse with an someone over 16 even if he/she did consent... Got that? Actually it's a good law. Adults who have sex with minors can't use consent as a defense.

dave lukins
29 Aug 13,, 17:26
What does the community think of the sentence? Has there been comments and calls for the judge to be removed? How can a 15 year sentence be reduced to 31 days without a huge backlash? In the UK they would be on the streets calling for the judge to be sacked and without doubt be brought to the attention of the PM in the Commons within 24 hours.

JAD_333
29 Aug 13,, 18:11
A little context. Hardly exonerates the man, but sheds light on why the jail time was reduced. The sentence stands, and the man's life is a shambles.

Former Senior High teacher gets 30 days for rape of student (http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/former-senior-high-teacher-gets-days-for-rape-of-student/article_b1f84190-ef23-5868-8799-b779c0421dc1.html)

People in Billings are upset about this and the DA is reviewing the sentence. Might be that the judge hasn't signed the order and could change the sentence. Not clear. One thing is sure, this judge would not be re-elected if he ran.

http://billingsgazette.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/twito-says-rambold-sentence-will-be-reviewed/article_a3e16a0f-9b29-5259-ad4f-5903abc22ef1.html?mode=comments

tuna
29 Aug 13,, 20:13
Justice would best be served if you make the maximum sentence for shooting a convicted rapist 25 cents. Heck, it's Montana, I'm surprised they're not already listed in the hunting regularions.

Doktor
29 Aug 13,, 20:50
No double jeopardy. Prosecutors can't appeal. Like Z says, he could be charged with another crime. A civil rights violation is often used in these cases.
You mean lawyers or DA can't appeal the sentence? Not the verdict.


Rape here was technical...
Technical? She suicides over technicality?


a person in that state under age 16 cannot be considered to have consented to intercourse with an someone over 16 even if he/she did consent... Got that?
Got it. It was a rape.


Actually it's a good law. Adults who have sex with minors can't use consent as a defense.
Yet the judge ruled the 14 y/o old girl "was in control of the situation".

JAD_333
29 Aug 13,, 21:15
You mean lawyers or DA can't appeal the sentence? Not the verdict.

They can ask for a higher sentence, but can't appeal the verdict. In any case the guy pleaded guilty and the judge found him guilty. No jury.

The judge can change the sentence before he signs the sentencing order. From what I read the DA was going to press him for a higher sentence. It may already be too late. I don't know.



Technical? She suicides over technicality?

It appears so. She wasn't on trial, but defense lawyers and others can make it seem like she is. Stinks.




Yet the judge ruled the 14 y/o old girl "was in control of the situation".

Just guessing, but even though this was a technical rape (her consent doesn't count) the judge was saying that she was really a well developed young woman who could have said no and may have lured the man in. I think the judge was wrong. The man could have and should have said no.

Minskaya
29 Aug 13,, 22:04
Just guessing, but even though this was a technical rape (her consent doesn't count) the judge was saying that she was really a well developed young woman who could have said no and may have lured the man in. I think the judge was wrong. The man could have and should have said no.
It doesn't matter how 'endowed' this child may have been or if she consented. She was a minor and Rambold was a high school teacher. The age of 14 means she was just entering secondary education. If he didn't know (highly unlikely), Rambold could easily have ascertained her true age via the school district student records. This whole saga stinks to high heaven.

Blademaster
29 Aug 13,, 22:25
I don't know about Montana law, but under Florida law, jury verdict favorable to defendant is non appealable but a bench verdict is appealable on technical grounds. Sentencing is appealable on both sides.

This sentence is appealable under Florida law and federal law.

Monash
30 Aug 13,, 06:46
No double jeopardy. Prosecutors can't appeal. Like Z says, he could be charged with another crime. A civil rights violation is often used in these cases.

Rape here was technical...a person in that state under age 16 cannot be considered to have consented to intercourse with an someone over 16 even if he/she did consent... Got that? Actually it's a good law. Adults who have sex with minors can't use consent as a defense.

The problem arises when someone closer to the minor's age engages in sexual intercourse with that minor e.g. say a 18 year old and a 15 year old. (Not approving by the way just giving an example.) It is something of a legal fiction in that instance to state that the younger teenager would not (normally) be capable of giving consent. After all that very same teenager could be charged with a crime if they agreed for example to participate in a robbery. Good sex offense laws should be crafted so that they take into consideration a wide range of variables including such things such as the relative ages of both parties, the acts involved, degree of coercion and whether or not the acts were consensual etc. Otherwise you end up with something of a legal blunt instrument

kato
30 Aug 13,, 07:39
Good sex offense laws should be crafted so that they take into consideration a wide range of variables
Gets freaking complicated pretty fast though.

For example, German legislation:
1. sexual acts* with a person under 14 are illegal
2. sexual acts with a person under 16 can be illegal if the person isn't mentally capable of sexual self-determination (and the perpetrator is over 21)
3. youths over 14 are legally able to be guilty of a crime
4. youths over 14 but under 21 are only legally responsible for a crime if the perpetrator is mentally capable of understanding the illegality of their acts and their guilt in the crime.

It's pretty much the other way around from blunt. We have a word for law combinations like that. Schwammig. Spongy. Effectively the judge can do pretty much anything with the above.

* sexual acts being defined as any act concerning sexuality; passive, active, voyeuristic (if the act is requested), exhibitionist. The possible sentence depends on the circumstances of the act, i.e. whether penetration occurs, whether there are multiple perpetrators, whether there was physical or psychological damage to the victim etc.

Minskaya
30 Aug 13,, 08:26
IIRC, in Illinois the sentence for rape is amplified if the offender occupied a 'position of trust' in relation to the victim (policeman, teacher, counselor, doctor, etc).

Monash
30 Aug 13,, 09:08
Gets freaking complicated pretty fast though.

For example, German legislation:
1. sexual acts* with a person under 14 are illegal
2. sexual acts with a person under 16 can be illegal if the person isn't mentally capable of sexual self-determination (and the perpetrator is over 21)
3. youths over 14 are legally able to be guilty of a crime
4. youths over 14 but under 21 are only legally responsible for a crime if the perpetrator is mentally capable of understanding the illegality of their acts and their guilt in the crime.

It's pretty much the other way around from blunt. We have a word for law combinations like that. Schwammig. Spongy. Effectively the judge can do pretty much anything with the above.

* sexual acts being defined as any act concerning sexuality; passive, active, voyeuristic (if the act is requested), exhibitionist. The possible sentence depends on the circumstances of the act, i.e. whether penetration occurs, whether there are multiple perpetrators, whether there was physical or psychological damage to the victim etc.

Over here sexual offenses are pretty much codified and subdivided along similar lines to the German criminal code. The advantage is that once you have defined the parameters of the offending conduct you can work your down the crimes act to a couple of precise charges that will cover what happened (hopefully with the appropriate penalties).

Minskaya
26 Sep 13,, 21:14
Postscript:

Former Billings, Montana High School teacher Stacey Rambold was released today from the Montana State Prison in Deer Lodge after serving 30 days for the rape of 14 year old student Cherice Moralez who subsequently committed suicide.

Officer of Engineers
26 Sep 13,, 21:24
He better disappear and assume a new identity.

Status Quo
26 Sep 13,, 23:01
He better disappear and assume a new identity.
Hopefully he doesn't.

Blademaster
26 Sep 13,, 23:10
He better disappear and assume a new identity.

He can't. He's on probation and a registered sex offender. So anybody can find him if they want to.

Officer of Engineers
26 Sep 13,, 23:36
Good. Let him live with the terror that he's someone's target.

dave lukins
27 Sep 13,, 00:45
Good. Let him live with the terror that he's someone's target.

With the greatest of respect Colonel, a slight amendment ''I hope he is everyone's target''