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zraver
22 Aug 13,, 20:34
His verdict should come by the end of the day. I hope he gets life in a federal supermax so that he is not martyred.

Monash
23 Aug 13,, 09:59
Any chance he will get the death sentence? Not saying he should or shouldn't just asking.

zraver
24 Aug 13,, 00:06
Guilty

Fort Hood shooter convicted on all counts | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/23/ford-hood-shooter-convicted-on-all-counts/)

Now comes the penalty phase, he could get death, I hope he gets life.

Firestorm
24 Aug 13,, 01:19
Zraver, the people who will consider him a martyr if he is executed, hate the US anyway. So what difference will it make? Better if he gets the chair. No need for the taxpayers to fund his stay in the supermax facility.

zraver
24 Aug 13,, 02:27
Because knowing that if you are convicted in the US you disapear down a black-hole with modern technology to keep you alive as long as possible in order to deny you your're 72 bushels of raisins is more punishment to a jihadi that death.

YellowFever
24 Aug 13,, 04:34
Keep him alive and feed him nothing but pork chops for the rest of his life.

Bigfella
24 Aug 13,, 05:17
Because knowing that if you are convicted in the US you disapear down a black-hole with modern technology to keep you alive as long as possible in order to deny you your're 72 bushels of raisins is more punishment to a jihadi that death.

Stick him in solitary. No human contact. Ever. Feed him that colourless, odourless, tasteless paste they have so that all he is left with is his own thoughts. Forever. Forgotten by humanity.

bonehead
24 Aug 13,, 05:17
Nothing less than hard labor on a pig farm will do.

zraver
24 Aug 13,, 05:34
Stick him in solitary. No human contact. Ever. Feed him that colourless, odourless, tasteless paste they have so that all he is left with is his own thoughts. Forever. Forgotten by humanity.

Priosners in a Federal Supermax never get human contact, all contact is gloved. They live 23 hours a day in a small cell and 1 hour a day in an enclosed kennel to walk for cardiac health. Most wont even see the sun unless be transferred, going to court or a hospital.

Bigfella
24 Aug 13,, 05:39
Priosners in a Federal Supermax never get human contact, all contact is gloved. They live 23 hours a day in a small cell and 1 hour a day in an enclosed kennel to walk for cardiac health. Most wont even see the sun unless be transferred, going to court or a hospital.

Sounds like a plan. Forty plus years of that sounds good to me.

Officer of Engineers
24 Aug 13,, 05:54
The Mongols didn't care about marytrs. Neither should we.

zraver
24 Aug 13,, 06:15
The Mongols could go medieval on an entire population, we can't....

Albany Rifles
24 Aug 13,, 16:50
Actually he will not go to a supermax. He was convicted by court martial which means he goes to the US Army Detention Barracks at FT Leavenworth, KS, and it is a lot worse.

zraver
24 Aug 13,, 17:07
Actually he will not go to a supermax. He was convicted by court martial which means he goes to the US Army Detention Barracks at FT Leavenworth, KS, and it is a lot worse.

All the better for the rest of us.

Pedicabby
24 Aug 13,, 18:47
Actually he will not go to a supermax. He was convicted by court martial which means he goes to the US Army Detention Barracks at FT Leavenworth, KS, and it is a lot worse.

How?

Blademaster
24 Aug 13,, 19:06
The Mongols could go medieval on an entire population, we can't....

Actually we did. The pacific theater in WWII.

desertswo
24 Aug 13,, 19:19
How?

Allow me Albany. Leavenworth is what is known to the Navy/Marine Corps team as a "red line brig." It's like the first day of boot camp. You stay on that red line drawn on the deck, because if you step off, bad things happen. Our friend Blademaster seems to think that if people don't obey orders, the guards will soon tire of messing with them and will leave them alone. Wrong. They won't be there forever. They come and they go and they don't stay there long enough to get tired. They aren't chosen for their calm, cool demeanor either. They are born assholes. What can happen to a guy who steps off the red line? I don't know, and I sure as hell don't want to find out.

Blademaster
24 Aug 13,, 19:31
But the guards can't touch him physically or give out physical punishments. All they could do is yell in his face and ear and once Bale doesn't give a shit, the guards will quickly find that they will tire of yelling at him.

Officer of Engineers
24 Aug 13,, 19:49
But the guards can't touch him physically or give out physical punishments.Yes, they can.

desertswo
24 Aug 13,, 20:51
But the guards can't touch him physically or give out physical punishments. All they could do is yell in his face and ear and once Bale doesn't give a shit, the guards will quickly find that they will tire of yelling at him.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!


Yes, they can.

Well, in theory Blademaster is correct Sir, but that won't stop the staff from finding creative ways in which to inflict some pretty heinous physical punishment. A fact of which you, having been around the block a time or two, are
no doubt aware. Bravo Zulu Sir!;)

looking4NSFS
24 Aug 13,, 22:42
So many conundrums here.

If Hasan had killed 13 and wounded 30 somewhere on a battlefield in Afghanistan...... and was captured....... he would go to a prison, perhaps Guantanamo, and eventually be released. (either thru being let go, or escaping if the prison was in Afghanistan).

The Jihad he represents considers US soil a battlefield. (re: World Trade Center, Pentagon and Shanksville Pa) If we grant him combatant status, as he seemingly wanted, would he go to a federal prison or a prison for captured enemy combatants?

By not granting him status as an enemy combatant, he goes to a place like Leavenworth, or may get the death penalty. Either way granting more "justice" to the victims than if he were to be captured on what we consider a battlefield.

But by the very virtue of not granting him combatant status.... his victims seemingly get less benefits than if they were killed/wounded on what we consider a battlefield.

I wish I had a clean answer. But I'm not sure there is one.

desertswo
25 Aug 13,, 00:21
So many conundrums here.

If Hasan had killed 13 and wounded 30 somewhere on a battlefield in Afghanistan...... and was captured....... he would go to a prison, perhaps Guantanamo, and eventually be released. (either thru being let go, or escaping if the prison was in Afghanistan).

The Jihad he represents considers US soil a battlefield. (re: World Trade Center, Pentagon and Shanksville Pa) If we grant him combatant status, as he seemingly wanted, would he go to a federal prison or a prison for captured enemy combatants?

By not granting him status as an enemy combatant, he goes to a place like Leavenworth, or may get the death penalty. Either way granting more "justice" to the victims than if he were to be captured on what we consider a battlefield.

But by the very virtue of not granting him combatant status.... his victims seemingly get less benefits than if they were killed/wounded on what we consider a battlefield.

I wish I had a clean answer. But I'm not sure there is one.

Uh, don't look now but if one calls him an "enemy combatant," then I believe he can be subject to the death penalty for several reasons, such as being technically apprehended "wearing the uniform" of his enemy. Bad juju. Also, "willfully" planning to kill, and then executing said plan is bad juju according to, I believe, the Fourth Convention. No matter which way he turns, his balls are in a vice.

Doktor
25 Aug 13,, 01:32
As for the punishment, I miss Whiskey's detailed procedures :(

Mike,
Isn't the Fourth about civilians, refugees, non combatants..?

desertswo
25 Aug 13,, 01:54
As for the punishment, I miss Whiskey's detailed procedures :(

Mike,
Isn't the Fourth about civilians, refugees, non combatants..?

There were civilians and non-combatants present when he opened fire.

Tronic
25 Aug 13,, 02:10
But the guards can't touch him physically or give out physical punishments. All they could do is yell in his face and ear and once Bale doesn't give a shit, the guards will quickly find that they will tire of yelling at him.

Not if he physically touches the guards first. ;)

I've worked security in the past... and I'm sure the prison guards have even more creative ways of delivering the required dosage to keep a-holes in line.

TopHatter
25 Aug 13,, 05:18
Zraver, the people who will consider him a martyr if he is executed, hate the US anyway. So what difference will it make? Better if he gets the chair. No need for the taxpayers to fund his stay in the supermax facility.
It's been found to be more expensive to execute a prisoner than a life sentence.

zraver
25 Aug 13,, 05:25
It's been found to be more expensive to execute a prisoner than a life sentence.

Plus he wants to die and every step of the appeals process is another possible forum for him. Life however is a blackhole....

Blademaster
25 Aug 13,, 06:08
There were civilians and non-combatants present when he opened fire.

A slippery slope there. After all, drones killed civilians and non-combatants. Same thing with missiles from manned aircrafts and helicopters and they were considered as collateral damage.

If you started going there, you will start losing that "collateral damage" argument. The best thing is to say that he was wearing a US uniform and sworn an oath to the US so he betrayed his country and murdered people. He was not an "enemy combatant".

Albany Rifles
26 Aug 13,, 04:50
Keep in mind treason is not not listed as an article in the UCMJ. It worked for the best.

YellowFever
26 Aug 13,, 05:31
Wasn't there a story last year about how the kins of the victims of the shooting couldn't receive all the benefits given to soldiers because the government didn't classify this guy as an enemy combatant?

As much as it would please me to see this bastard get nothing but bacon sammiches for the rest of his life, if this is indeed the case, designate him an enemy combatant and give the full benefits to the victim's families.

tankie
26 Aug 13,, 15:07
It's been found to be more expensive to execute a prisoner than a life sentence.

How so ?

tankie
26 Aug 13,, 15:10
Nothing less than hard labor on a pig farm will do.

Nope he will never get to be a UK MP :whome:

Pedicabby
26 Aug 13,, 15:44
How so ?


The appeals process can be quite costly.

Minskaya
26 Aug 13,, 16:11
Just for clarity... The case will proceed to a capital sentencing hearing, where prosecutors will try to prove one or more aggravating factors that merit a death sentence. One aggravating factor would be the killing of more than one person in a single event. Jurors must be unanimous to sentence him to death. The death sentence would need to be affirmed by Fort Hood's convening authority, which would prompt automatic appeals at two military courts for the Army and then the armed forces. If those fail, Hasan could ask the U.S. Supreme Court to review his case and file motions in federal court. The U.S. president must eventually approve a military death sentence.

tankie
26 Aug 13,, 22:10
The appeals process can be quite costly.

And , how execution can cost more than life in jail , is execution cheaper than keeping a felon for life , 3 meals a day etc etc ???

astralis
27 Aug 13,, 04:29
tankie,

the lawyers.

tankie
27 Aug 13,, 12:45
tankie,

the lawyers.

It costs about 40k per year in the UK to keep 1 felon , heres a link , in the USA 1.5 million for a lifer , you yanks must have veryyyyyyyyyyy rich lawyers :biggrin:

Hey Blademaster , when you hit the jackpot ,send vacation tickets please ;)

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEkQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fanswers.yahoo.com%2Fquestion%2Fin dex%3Fqid%3D20081023052221AAkjPoI&ei=loIcUtXhBoLftAabi4C4Bg&usg=AFQjCNFOFVY3cdifYtSAuhNf_A4rT-0w4Q&sig2=LWgNgNrntsKVjj0Ct6ejQQ&bvm=bv.51156542,d.Yms

gunnut
28 Aug 13,, 02:52
And , how execution can cost more than life in jail , is execution cheaper than keeping a felon for life , 3 meals a day etc etc ???

Sir, a death sentence here means automatic appeals on behalf of the prisoner, through each layer of our court system. Our constitution guarantees representation in the courts. He ain't gonna pay for a lawyer. So the courts will appoint one at each level, sometimes more than one due to various reasons. Lawyers aren't cheap and they charge by the hour. Multiple lawyers over 15 to 30 years could seriously hamper one's travel budget.

tankie
28 Aug 13,, 03:09
Sir, a death sentence here means automatic appeals on behalf of the prisoner, through each layer of our court system. Our constitution guarantees representation in the courts. He ain't gonna pay for a lawyer. So the courts will appoint one at each level, sometimes more than one due to various reasons. Lawyers aren't cheap and they charge by the hour. Multiple lawyers over 15 to 30 years could seriously hamper one's travel budget.

I gorrit now bud , thanks ,but , screw the appeals , just kill em .

zraver
28 Aug 13,, 05:14
Sir, a death sentence here means automatic appeals on behalf of the prisoner, through each layer of our court system. Our constitution guarantees representation in the courts. He ain't gonna pay for a lawyer. So the courts will appoint one at each level, sometimes more than one due to various reasons. Lawyers aren't cheap and they charge by the hour. Multiple lawyers over 15 to 30 years could seriously hamper one's travel budget.

Not just a lawyer, but in capitol murder cases, teams of lawyers that passed the federal bar (in this case and the military bar) plus whole teams of paralegals, private investigators, expert witnesses, law clerks etc. I'm not sure if he goes to district or appellate courts from a military conviction. His legal team will litigate each issue preserved for appeal individually in order to drag things out as long as possible.

The military hasn't executed anyone since 1961 and there are currently 5 people on death row. The president must personally sign the death warrant for military prisoners on death row. Overall since 1961 and the last military execution the federal government has only executed 4 people. There are including military prisoners, 64 people on a federal death row.

McVeigh's execution, a model of efficiency and swift justice cost the government and taxpayers 13.9 million dollars.

dave lukins
28 Aug 13,, 13:20
Lawyers aren't cheap and they charge by the hour. Multiple lawyers over 15 to 30 years could seriously hamper one's travel budget.

Can't the Courts use Military Lawyers who are salaried therefore cutting down on the cost. ;)

desertswo
28 Aug 13,, 14:27
Can't the Courts use Military Lawyers who are salaried therefore cutting down on the cost. ;)

Only if they want to lose.

zraver
28 Aug 13,, 16:32
Can't the Courts use Military Lawyers who are salaried therefore cutting down on the cost. ;)

At some point though the appeals enter the federal court system and JAG lawyers may not be permitted to stand unless they've passed the federal bar. If he does get the death penalty I don't think it will take much longer than mcViegh. It does not look like Hasan bothered to preserve any errors for appeal. There will be a hearing on his competency and as long as the government wins that hearing it should be quick for a death penalty case. If the government loses that hearing, then Katie bar the doors.

Albany Rifles
28 Aug 13,, 17:39
Z,

The US military law system is recognized by the federal courts as fully certified.

Every JAG I have known passed the federal BAR...lived next door to a JAG couple a few years back and have a current neighbor.

A little info on the military legal system for those "who can handle the truth!"

http://www.hqmc.marines.mil/Portals/135/MJFACTSHTS[1].html

Dreadnought
28 Aug 13,, 19:45
IMO, Shoot him immediately after being found guilty. He is no martyr, he will never be a martyr, all he is, is a selfish coward with bullshit as his excuse. One that deserves the death penalty and buried in an unmarked grave where the military's K-9's can shit on a regular basis. Justice served.

zraver
28 Aug 13,, 21:28
Z,

The US military law system is recognized by the federal courts as fully certified.

Every JAG I have known passed the federal BAR...lived next door to a JAG couple a few years back and have a current neighbor.

A little info on the military legal system for those "who can handle the truth!"

http://www.hqmc.marines.mil/Portals/135/MJFACTSHTS[1].html

OK, thanks for the info. I knew the courts were fully certified, but I don't know what level they are and at what level a case on appeal enters the federal system. I assume appellate, but did not want to say without knowing for sure.

Do you know if military lawyers are required to pass the federal and military bar exam?

Also the sentence has been handed down- DEATH.

Doktor
28 Aug 13,, 21:38
Also the sentence has been handed down- DEATH.

How fast will the justice be? IMHO, slow justice is not justice at all.

Albany Rifles
28 Aug 13,, 21:44
Z,

I am not sure but I will try to remember to ask.

I know that an officer has to have past the bar prior to going to the JAG school in Charlottesville, VA where they have to pass the military bar. But not sure if that is state or federal.

Doktor,

It will be some time...there is a line ahead of him. There are mandatory appeals IAW the UCMJ. Part of the length alos depends on how many obstacles he throws in the path.

He probably wants to do it sooner than later so he can finish his jihad. I'd say keep him alive for years and deny him his wished. Make the bastard suffer.

zraver
28 Aug 13,, 21:55
It will be some time...there is a line ahead of him.

Don't think its first in first out....




There are mandatory appeals IAW the UCMJ.

At least 1 automatic review by the next highest court, then the process of defense driven challenges based on what was preserved for appeal and any other actionable information.


Part of the length alos depends on how many obstacles he throws in the path.

Did not seem like he did much to preserve any thing. His competency is the only real issue. Since the presumption is that people want to live, his readiness to die is an issue. It will have to be litigated, is wanting to die a martyr a rational objective for a sane person and thus his defense approach during trial was sound? Or is/was he suicidal during the trial in which case he is/was mentally ill, and perhaps not competent to command let alone assist in his own defense.


He probably wants to do it sooner than later so he can finish his jihad. I'd say keep him alive for years and deny him his wished. Make the bastard suffer.

I'd commute his sentence to life and pack him off to the deepest darkest cell I could find.

Doktor
28 Aug 13,, 22:00
He probably wants to do it sooner than later so he can finish his jihad. I'd say keep him alive for years and deny him his wished. Make the bastard suffer.
The judge disagreed with you when the sentence was announced. Tho I like the way you think ;)

desertswo
28 Aug 13,, 22:10
I know that an officer has to have past the bar prior to going to the JAG school in Charlottesville, VA where they have to pass the military bar. But not sure if that is state or federal.

It's federal. My earlier comment regarding using JAGs "only if you want to lose" wasn't just a shot across the bow. Based on my experience, the sort of people you want looking at this material are not at the O-3/O-4 level where you would achieve the desired savings in costs. For the most part, the people at that level just aren't sharp enough or experienced enough to work such at case to termination in the desired fashion. You are talking O-5/O-6 and maybe even O-7 level scrutiny, and gravitas, especially if going before the Supremes is contemplated. Here is the 2013 pay charts (http://www.navycs.com/2013-military-pay-chart.html#officer-pay-chart), and don't forget to look up the BAH in DC because that's where that sort of horsepower would come from, and I think you'll see it's no real bargain between using JAGs or DoD civilians with far more experience in this sort of thing.

Gun Grape
30 Aug 13,, 13:07
He probably wants to do it sooner than later so he can finish his jihad. I'd say keep him alive for years and deny him his wished. Make the bastard suffer.

Since there hasn't been a military execution in over 50 years I bet that is what will happen.

He will die of old age.

Aryajet
30 Aug 13,, 17:07
How fast will the justice be? IMHO, slow justice is not justice at all.

Dok,

I totally agree with you. It will take around 15 years to put his filthy life to end by execution, he is 34 now and by then he will be 70, ripe to depart on his own anyway. What purpose the verdict is serving here?

Hopefully either they conduct a McVeigh style swift execution (which might ease up the suffering of victims families and friends a little) or arrange a very special death row cell for him.

Gun Grape
05 Sep 13,, 05:34
Let the games begin :biggrin:


Nidal Hasan's beard shaved off at Fort Leavenworth Prison CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs (http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2013/09/04/nidal-hasans-beard-shaved-off-at-fort-leavenworth-prison/?hpt=hp_t2)


The beard that delayed the Fort Hood court martial trial for months is gone. Maj. Nidal Hasan, the former Army psychiatrist convicted of 13 murders and dozens of attempted murders, is clean shaven again.

According to an Army statement about Hasan's incarceration at the U.S. Disciplinary Barracks at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, "All inmates must conform to AR 670-1, wear and appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia."

The statement also said, "In keeping with the provisions" of the regulations, "Inmate Hasan has been shaved."