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India Says Five Soldiers Killed in Attack on Pakistan Border

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  • India Says Five Soldiers Killed in Attack on Pakistan Border

    NEW DELHI — Five Indian soldiers were killed in an attack along the disputed border with Pakistan in the Kashmir region, a senior Indian official said on Tuesday, in an attack that comes as the two countries were moving toward resuming stalled peace talks.

    The talks were called off in January following an attack on the border in which one Indian soldier was decapitated.

    "Was briefed early this morning about news that 5 of our soldiers had been killed on the LOC. My heartfelt condolences to their next of kin," Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah said in a Tweet, referring to the Line of Control dividing the two countries in the Himalayan region.

    Indian media said the latest incident was an attack on an Indian military post.

    It comes as the nuclear-armed rivals have been edging closer to restarting peace talks. Pakistan has proposed dates for resuming the talks, and India has been preparing a response.

    "This is an extremely unfortunate incident. If Pakistan wants to have better relations with India this is not the way," Indian junior home minister R.P.N. Singh said outside parliament in New Delhi.

    A lasting peace between Pakistan and India, which have fought three wars since both gained independence in 1947, has long proved elusive. With many fearing an upsurge in conflict in Afghanistan after Western forces pull out next year, it is even more important for India and Pakistan to ratchet down tension, according to some analysts.

    Officials on both sides have said there may be a meeting between Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif - who made better ties with India a theme in his election campaign in May - and his Indian counterpart, Manmohan Singh, on the sidelines of the U.N. General Assembly in New York in September.

    India charges that Pakistan arms and harbors militants in Kashmir, the Muslim-majority territory claimed by both nations, and pushes them across the 740-km (460-mile) de facto border.

    Pakistan denies arming the militants, saying it offers only moral support to the people of Kashmir.

    There has been a spate of unusually deadly militant attacks on Indian security forces in Kashmir this year. Around 25 militants have been killed by India's armed forces in the past month, according to Indian officials, an unusually high number.
    New York Times
    Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

  • #2
    How any other nation would have reacted ?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ambidex View Post
      How any other nation would have reacted ?
      The retaliation will be done in time don't worry.

      Cheers!...on the rocks!!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by lemontree View Post
        The retaliation will be done in time don't worry.
        Capt,

        That may be true. But it is more important to seen as retaliating both by your own countrymen as well as the enemy.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Defcon5 View Post
          Capt,

          That may be true. But it is more important to seen as retaliating both by your own countrymen as well as the enemy.
          This is not a TV show, but the enemy will be visited and the media will get their press release.

          Cheers!...on the rocks!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by lemontree View Post
            This is not a TV show, but the enemy will be visited and the media will get their press release.
            I dont disagree, but morale and opinion of the soldiers and the citizens has a value. It is matter of public perception especially when India seen as a soft and weak target.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Defcon5 View Post
              I dont disagree, but morale and opinion of the soldiers and the citizens has a value. It is matter of public perception especially when India seen as a soft and weak target.
              politicians may have an idealogical need to react to public angst and anger - militaries should not
              Linkeden:
              http://au.linkedin.com/pub/gary-fairlie/1/28a/2a2
              http://cofda.wordpress.com/

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              • #8
                Originally posted by gf0012-aust View Post
                politicians may have an idealogical need to react to public angst and anger - militaries should not
                GF,

                If a American soldier is killed or a civilian target attacked, Americans make it a point that there is retribution. George Bush even made a big flex vinyl board of it. Indians are seen by Indians as well as outsiders as a weak and easy target, with no interest in 'hitting back'. It will have impact on everything from who enemies of the state plan operations against them to how the armed forces can recruit in the future. Nobody wants to join a weak force. That is true for high school, that is true for geo politics and that is also true for militaries.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Defcon5 View Post
                  GF,

                  If a American soldier is killed or a civilian target attacked, Americans make it a point that there is retribution. George Bush even made a big flex vinyl board of it. Indians are seen by Indians as well as outsiders as a weak and easy target, with no interest in 'hitting back'. It will have impact on everything from who enemies of the state plan operations against them to how the armed forces can recruit in the future. Nobody wants to join a weak force. That is true for high school, that is true for geo politics and that is also true for militaries.
                  Not so re militaries. Govts refer to their militaries for advice on the merits of a response and the nature of that response - that is completely isolated from the wailing and anger that the press or public might generate

                  You only have to see the response of US Military senior officers recently to see that they inject caution and pause and do their best to cauterise the emotional pitch that so often comes from the gallery

                  Having worked in India a few times, I'm more than aware of how the local media (as an example) can try and run the govt down a political lane and force behaviour

                  in the simplest of terms that is just plain dumb. Govts should be considered in the use of military force and not have that judgement driven by the court of public or press emotion - all the latter does is lead to bad policy and actions.
                  Linkeden:
                  http://au.linkedin.com/pub/gary-fairlie/1/28a/2a2
                  http://cofda.wordpress.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gf0012-aust View Post
                    Not so re militaries. Govts refer to their militaries for advice on the merits of a response and the nature of that response - that is completely isolated from the wailing and anger that the press or public might generate
                    You are talking about a country in which in their strategic committee, they dont even have a military person. Its politicians and bureaucrats.

                    You only have to see the response of US Military senior officers recently to see that they inject caution and pause and do their best to cauterise the emotional pitch that so often comes from the gallery
                    You are right about the last few years, even I had similar feelings.

                    Having worked in India a few times, I'm more than aware of how the local media (as an example) can try and run the govt down a political lane and force behaviour
                    We have too much freedom and very less money at hand, everybody can be bought.

                    in the simplest of terms that is just plain dumb. Govts should be considered in the use of military force and not have that judgement driven by the court of public or press emotion - all the latter does is lead to bad policy and actions.
                    When you have been attacked by non state actors and state actors over decades and there is still no fight back or cost, people will begin to question. I think that is legitimate. Not addressing that concern is also bad policy and action.


                    What was the US response after Seal Team 6 incident in Afghanistan?

                    Do be patient with me, I am neither ex military nor a defence professional. My view points are quite layman.
                    Last edited by gf0012-aust; 06 Aug 13,, 11:47. Reason: layout fix

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Pakistan denies killing of five Indian soldiers

                      NEW DELHI / ISLAMABAD / NEELUM VALLEY (LOC): Pakistani security officials denied any involvement on Tuesday in the deaths of Indian soldiers on the disputed and heavily militarised border in Kashmir.
                      “There was no indiscriminate firing from our side,” one security official told Reuters.

                      Pakistan denies killing of five Indian soldiers – The Express Tribune

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gf0012-aust View Post
                        in the simplest of terms that is just plain dumb. Govts should be considered in the use of military force and not have that judgement driven by the court of public or press emotion - all the latter does is lead to bad policy and actions.
                        Agree, last thing we need is to get easily baited and get turned into somebody else's pawn.

                        Originally posted by Defcon5 View Post
                        Indians are seen by Indians as well as outsiders as a weak and easy target, with no interest in 'hitting back'. It will have impact on everything from who enemies of the state plan operations against them to how the armed forces can recruit in the future. Nobody wants to join a weak force. That is true for high school, that is true for geo politics and that is also true for militaries.
                        Over reactions are just as detrimental because they make us predictable.

                        Don't take these incidents personally, its just business. They are going to continue.

                        Our pros will deal with it. Its their job.

                        Accept that and you don't make a storm in a teacup.
                        Last edited by Double Edge; 06 Aug 13,, 13:24.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          India Says Attackers in Pakistan Uniforms Killed Five Troops

                          India said 20 heavily-armed “terrorists” along with men dressed in Pakistan army uniforms killed five Indian soldiers along the border in the disputed region of Kashmir, in a blow to efforts to resume peace talks.
                          Indian “army commanders at the appropriate level may take retaliatory action,” said Dipankar Banerjee, a retired major general in the Indian army who served in Kashmir and now a defense analyst with the Forum for Strategic Initiative in New Delhi. “This tit-for-tat is par for the course, and both sides are at it.”
                          Respect to the dead. R.I.P.
                          Politicians are elected to serve...far too many don't see it that way - Albany Rifles! || Loyalty to country always. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it - Mark Twain! || I am a far left millennial!

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                          • #14
                            From the NYT article ""The ambush was carried out by approximately 20 heavily armed terrorists along with persons dressed in Pakistan Army uniforms," Indian Defence Minister A.K. Antony said in a statement to parliament."

                            Can somebody explain to me why Pakistani soldiers would dress in uniform TOGETHER with plain clothed men in the attack? That makes no sense to me. That's an invasion, no? If it's an invasion, why not all in uniforms. Or they just don't care. And if it's an invasion, what makes them terrorists?

                            And is the accusation based on the words of the sole survivor?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              India won't react, she didn't after Mumbai, Parliament or Kabul. Pakistan knows this and so can operate with impunity.

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