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Oracle
04 Aug 13,, 15:51
WASHINGTON: Impressed by the Indian Army's successful counter-terrorism operations, the US Army chief has proposed joint training between the armies of the two countries.

Noting that there is much to learn between the militaries of the two countries, US Army Chief of Staff General Ray Odierno called for joint training to benefit from India's experiences in counter-insurgency in a tough environment and difficult terrain.

"We would love to do some joint training in the mountainous environment, because what the Indian Army has learned over the years, we would love to share what we learned about counter-insurgency and compare experiences and see how we can learn from each other and how we can direct that to use in the future, so for me it is something that is important," Odierno told PTI in an interview.

Odierno, 58, during a rare trip to India late last month, met his Indian counterpart General Bikram Singh besides holding meetings with defence minister A K Antony and visiting the Northern Command headquarters in Udhampur.

Highly impressed by the Indian military's successful counter-insurgency operations, he said, the US would like to learn from the Indian experience as to how to fight terrorists in a tough environment and difficult terrain.

When asked if the US would like to have joint exercises in Jammu and Kashmir where the terrain is difficult like that of Afghanistan, Odierno said he would like to look at that.

Odierno said that this is something that the US may be interested in but still need to take a look at by sending people to train in these types of environments.

"I think, we would like to look at...we send may be send some people to learn how you train and operate in those environment and those are kind of had some initial discussions on...much more has to be done. It is things like that we would be interested in," he said.

"Everybody recognises, India has so much in common with the US and that it is important for us to sustain a strong long-lasting relationship," the US Army Chief of Staff said.

"It is important for us to sustain a long-term relationship of one that is equal, one that respects each other's strategic autonomy, but that one that enables us to learn from each other to develop together, to deal with many of the issues that we face around the world," he said.

Source (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/US-army-keen-to-learn-from-Indias-counter-insurgency-operations/articleshow/21595174.cms?)

Good going. I am all for US-India co-op in every sphere of life.

Oracle
04 Aug 13,, 15:55
CIJWS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-insurgency_and_Jungle_Warfare_School) (Motto - Fight the guerrilla like a guerrilla). Vairengte is an hour from my home.


The original plans to set up a counter-insurgency unit to train soldiers came about following the government response to the Mizo militancy in the 1960s. Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw, then the General Officer Commanding-in-Chief (GOC-IN-C) of the Indian Army's Eastern Command, was the first proponent for the institute.[3]
CIJW was established in 1967 as the Jungle Training School. It was initially located in Mynkre, near Jowal in Jaintia Hills district of Meghalaya. In 1968, the designation was changed to Eastern Command Counter Insurgency Training School. On 1 May 1970, it was upgraded to a Category A Training Establishment of the Indian Army, given its current name and relocated to Vairengte. Brigadier Mathew Thomas was appointed the school's first Commandant.
The crisis in neighbouring East Pakistan and the resulting liberation struggle for Bangladesh prompted a temporary refocus as the Mukti Bahini guerrillas were trained at the institute. Operation Jackpot undertaken by the Mukti Bahini rebels was an instance of the school's training success. Since the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971, CIJW has focused to its primary role of counter-insurgency training.
CIJW has hosted visiting military units for training from the United States, Singapore, Nepal, Bhutan, Russia, United Kingdom, Israel , France, Bangladesh and many other nations.
The success of this school prompted the establishment of another counter-insurgency training centre, the Kaziranga Special Jungle Warfare Training School in Assam.

TopHatter
04 Aug 13,, 18:27
Good going. I am all for US-India co-op in every sphere of life.

Agreed, it would produce huge benefits for both.

Officer of Engineers
04 Aug 13,, 21:05
Lessons already being forgotten and we're moving back to the reccee battle.

Firestorm
05 Aug 13,, 04:29
These exercises aren't new. The Americans do joint exercises with everyone barring the Russians, North Koreans and maybe the Chinese. There have been numerous such US-India joint exercises as well after which both sides have "learnt a lot from each other" if the press statements are to be believed.

However no amount of lessons will help in a war if your supply lines run through the country wherein most of your foes take shelter.

ambidex
05 Aug 13,, 05:36
Adding

US, India Consider C-17 Exchange (http://idrw.org/?p=25186)

US grabs wallet-sized bomb detector created by DRDO (http://idrw.org/?p=25199)

Doktor
05 Aug 13,, 06:00
These exercises aren't new. The Americans do joint exercises with everyone barring the Russians, North Koreans and maybe the Chinese. There have been numerous such US-India joint exercises as well after which both sides have "learnt a lot from each other" if the press statements are to be believed.

Russians and Americans cooperate and hold drills.

Colorado, Atlas Vision, Northern Eagle, Vigilant Eagle...
They are not on par with what US and Japan or Korea do, or Russians and Chinese, but the coop is there.

Double Edge
05 Aug 13,, 08:23
Source (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/US-army-keen-to-learn-from-Indias-counter-insurgency-operations/articleshow/21595174.cms?)

Good going. I am all for US-India co-op in every sphere of life.
Since we're training the Afghans, the Americans would like to go to the source.

This should be a good learning experience for both. What worked for us and what worked for them and vice versa.

chanjyj
05 Aug 13,, 11:32
CIJWS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-insurgency_and_Jungle_Warfare_School) (Motto - Fight the guerrilla like a guerrilla). Vairengte is an hour from my home.

The wikipedia article you provided stinks of jingoistic armchair general talk. I'm going to edit it.

Eg:


Today, the ultra-commando trainee is educated, uses the Internet for gathering information, disseminating propaganda, negotiating arms deal and is familiar with hi-tech explosives. At the same time the trainee is trained with native skills like using easily available materials in forest which can be used to devise deadly traps that can kill an elephant with nothing more than bamboos and vines.


But simply deploying large force is useless as it never produces any result. Learning to operate in small teams, studying the pattern of the militants, establishing an intelligence network, knowing their traditional sanctuaries, maintaining the element of surprise, selecting the site for counter ambush, observing the discipline of when exactly to open fire, knowing field craft and jungle craft well enough to remain undetected, and improvising within a given situation, is the kind of stuff that breaks an ambush. And it’s this which is taught nowhere else better than at CIJW School.

*coughs*

troung
05 Aug 13,, 23:52
Elephant traps and the Internets - serious stuff

anil
06 Aug 13,, 16:08
The wikipedia article you provided stinks of jingoistic armchair general talk.
Good luck finding sound citations http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/images/darksmiles/biggrin.gif

chanjyj
06 Aug 13,, 16:30
Good luck finding sound citations http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/images/darksmiles/biggrin.gif

I just deleted everything. Half of it cited a forum post that was a clone of the wikipedia text.

Oracle
06 Aug 13,, 18:32
I just deleted everything. Half of it cited a forum post that was a clone of the wikipedia text.

You didn't do nothing. Prove it otherwise.

chanjyj
07 Aug 13,, 01:49
You didn't do nothing. Prove it otherwise.

I'm curious as to why you would want to know, but whatever the case is you can look at the revision history of any article in Wikipedia by heading to the "history" page.

http://i.imgur.com/e5AN44d.png

Doktor
07 Aug 13,, 04:33
I believe he was mocking you. If not, I am curious, too.

Oracle
07 Aug 13,, 05:01
I believe he was mocking you. If not, I am curious, too.

No, I was not mocking. I thought he had information he would add to the wiki page.

Chanjyl, here you said about editing it since it stinks of jingoistic armchair general talk. And you posted -


Today, the ultra-commando trainee is educated, uses the Internet for gathering information, disseminating propaganda, negotiating arms deal and is familiar with hi-tech explosives. At the same time the trainee is trained with native skills like using easily available materials in forest which can be used to devise deadly traps that can kill an elephant with nothing more than bamboos and vines.


But simply deploying large force is useless as it never produces any result. Learning to operate in small teams, studying the pattern of the militants, establishing an intelligence network, knowing their traditional sanctuaries, maintaining the element of surprise, selecting the site for counter ambush, observing the discipline of when exactly to open fire, knowing field craft and jungle craft well enough to remain undetected, and improvising within a given situation, is the kind of stuff that breaks an ambush. And it’s this which is taught nowhere else better than at CIJW School.

I clicked on the wiki link and saw nothing of what you mentioned is there. Then you posted -


I just deleted everything. Half of it cited a forum post that was a clone of the wikipedia text.

Now, I thought you'd deleted the entire page and added information from credible sources. So, I checked again. :)

Then you posted -


I'm curious as to why you would want to know, but whatever the case is you can look at the revision history of any article in Wikipedia by heading to the "history" page.

http://i.imgur.com/e5AN44d.png

And I was like, okay, I misunderstood. But, seriously, you have all the time to edit and correct english and remove jingoist texts. I did not create that page. :biggrin:

Mate, if I had any other credible sources I would have used that link. However, thank you for correcting the page. Ray, could have helped. I guess he was a trainer in CIJWS, Vairengte, sometime in his long career.

chanjyj
07 Aug 13,, 05:43
I would not know about the BG as I was never close to him and never kept updated during my long hiatus from WAB (I was a lurker before I even signed up). When I finally came back this year I found many other stalwarts gone too, in the span of 2+ years.

As for information from "credible" sources you aren't going to get anything much other than what the site already has.

Oracle
07 Aug 13,, 06:07
I would not know about the BG as I was never close to him and never kept updated during my long hiatus from WAB (I was a lurker before I even signed up). When I finally came back this year I found many other stalwarts gone too, in the span of 2+ years.

As for information from "credible" sources you aren't going to get anything much other than what the site already has.

Some pics from Indian-Indonesian jungle warfare drill in CIJWS, sometime in early 2012.

33536
33537
33538
33539
33540

Livefist (http://www.livefistdefence.com/2012/03/india-indonesian-conduct-joint-jungle.html)

During my grad days, we (myself and friends) would drive to Vairengte once in every 3-4 months. We had a Mizo guy in our group, so we didn't need pass at the Cachar-Mizoram border. We would also smuggle in beer and enjoy a couple of hours in the hills wandering, before we drove back. Back then, I had the idea that CIJWS was just another Army base. :rolleyes:

US Troop Train in Indian Counter Insurgency School (http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/europe-russia/46153-us-troop-train-indian-counter-insurgency-school.html)