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  • Hollowed out: US Army fights brain drain

    BBC News - Hollowed out: US Army fights brain drain

  • #2
    Geez,what a problem.I wonder how can they cope with it

    Much about nothing and the usual hoopla.First,sitting on the arse as a FOBitt doesn't really qualifies as combat.My guess is a week at Stalingrad is worse than 2 years at Camp Bastion.Yeah,I know,there were plenty who saw some action,but let's look at what the units were estimated to lose in a WW3 scenario.A Brigade every few hours and a division every 2-3 days.Iraq and A-stan do resemble colonial or Indian wars.Fought in faraway places,but a low intensity.
    Second,I kinda agree it sucks going back at the paperwork,when you've seen the real deal.My envy for the bastards:)

    Third,cutting corners wrt promotions ain't a big deal.One month of action is worth more than a year on garrison duty.
    Fourth-welcome to the future.I'd rather send the war junkies of NATO in contractor clothes as a de facto western army in every fvcked up place.It's cheaper,more effective and without the political fuss.From this pov,the brain drain+the adrenaline rush can be a very potent combination.
    Those who know don't speak
    He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

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    • #3
      Inside the Army: How Irresponsible Journalists Distort Public Perception of the Military

      As usual, not so much....
      “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
      Mark Twain

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      • #4
        BBC vs Army's officer bog... wonder who has more leverage in shaping public opinion.
        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

        Comment


        • #5
          No disagreement Doktor
          “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
          Mark Twain

          Comment


          • #6
            I will say that one thing they do get correct are the mid-level ranks' concerns about a peacetime army. The only people who really remember what that is like are O-5's and E-8's and above. The GWOT generation has always had the next deployment that we were training up for. It is harder to maintain an organizations' motivation when your validation is NTC/JRTC instead of combat.

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            • #7
              I have to think this is what it must have been like for leaders after the Civil War after Reconstruction ended.

              They had been through the cauldron of those 4 years and the almost guerilla combat of Reconstruction.

              To then be scattered in posts across the west.

              Had to be a tough adjustment.

              Just hope the services are smart and the bullshit is kept to a minimum.
              “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
              Mark Twain

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                I have to think this is what it must have been like for leaders after the Civil War after Reconstruction ended.

                They had been through the cauldron of those 4 years and the almost guerilla combat of Reconstruction.

                To then be scattered in posts across the west.

                Had to be a tough adjustment.

                Just hope the services are smart and the bullshit is kept to a minimum.
                And those that went to fight Apaches and Sioux were the lucky ones.A lifetime of boredom for the rest.
                I found a while back an article in an old magazine that related some interesting trivia.Right after the war,Gen. Beuregard,then in France, was contacted by Romanian diplomats and was asked to take command of our army.There was the usual crisis with the Ottoman empire and it was felt there were no more experienced officers in the world than American ones.The crises subdued eventually and the deal went away.But I wonder how many went this path.
                Those who know don't speak
                He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                  And those that went to fight Apaches and Sioux were the lucky ones.A lifetime of boredom for the rest.
                  I found a while back an article in an old magazine that related some interesting trivia.Right after the war,Gen. Beuregard,then in France, was contacted by Romanian diplomats and was asked to take command of our army.There was the usual crisis with the Ottoman empire and it was felt there were no more experienced officers in the world than American ones.The crises subdued eventually and the deal went away.But I wonder how many went this path.
                  A fair amount did.

                  And thank your lucky stars that Beauregard didn't take you up on the offer....you would be speaking Turkish to this day!
                  “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                  Mark Twain

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                    A fair amount did.

                    And thank your lucky stars that Beauregard didn't take you up on the offer....you would be speaking Turkish to this day!
                    Imagine how desperate they were...
                    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mihais View Post
                      Right after the war,Gen. Beuregard,then in France, was contacted by Romanian diplomats and was asked to take command of our army.There was the usual crisis with the Ottoman empire and it was felt there were no more experienced officers in the world than American ones.The crises subdued eventually and the deal went away.But I wonder how many went this path.
                      Besides Romania, Beauregard was also offered military positions in Brazil and Egypt. He declined all of these offers and instead went on to become the successful president of a railroad company until his ouster via a hostile takeover in 1870.
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Mihais,

                        Some info on that topic


                        Confederados - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                        Name COLSTON, Raleigh Edward
                        Born October 31 1825, Paris France
                        Died July 29 1896, Richmond VA
                        Pre-War Profession Graduated VMI 1846, professor
                        War Service May 1861 Col. of 16th Virginia, December 1861 Brig. Gen., commanded Colston’s Bde/Longstreet's Divn at Williamsburg, Seven Pines, commanded Trimble’s Divn at Chancellorsville (relieved of command), assigned to Petersburg, commanded forces at Lynchburg.
                        Post War Career Col. in Egyptian army
                        Notes
                        --------
                        Name MAGRUDER, John Bankhead "Prince John"
                        Born May 1 1807, Port Royal VA
                        Died February 18 1871, Houston TX
                        Pre-War Profession Graduated West Point 1830, Seminole War, Mexican War, artillery duty, resigned April 1861.
                        War Service May 1861 Col., Big Bethel, June 1861 Brig. Gen., October 1861 Maj. Gen., commanded a Wing in Peninsula campaign, Seven Pines, Malvern Hill, loss of command due to "drunkenness and recklessness", command of Dist. of Texas, led the capture of Galveston.
                        Post War Career Joined the forces of Emperor Maximilian in Mexico, returned to Texas.
                        -------
                        Name PARSONS, Mosby Monroe
                        Born May 21 1822, Charlottesville VA
                        Died August 15 1865, nr China, Mexico
                        Pre-War Profession Lawyer, Mexican War, politician.
                        War Service 1861 commanded a division of the Missouri State Guard, Carthage, Springfield, Elkhorn Tavern, November 1862 Brig. Gen., commanded the Missouri Divn in Red River campaign, Pleasant Hill, April 1864 named Maj. Gen. by Kirby Smith (never confirmed), Price's raid into Missouri.
                        Post War Career Fled to Mexico, joined Imperialist forces, probably killed by Republican irregulars.
                        ------
                        Name BEAUREGARD, Pierre Gustave Toutant
                        Born May 28 1818, St Bernard Parish LA
                        Died February 20 1893, New Orleans LA
                        Pre-War Profession Graduated West Point 1838, Mexican War, Supt. of West Point (briefly) 1861, resigned February 1861
                        War Service March 1861 Brig. Gen. in Confederate Provisional Army, Fort Sumter, First Manassas, July 1861 General, Shiloh - commanded Army of Tennessee after A S Johnston killed, Corinth, superseded by Bragg while on sick leave, defense of South Carolina and Georgia, commanded defenses south of Richmond, second in command to Johnston in Carolinas campaign.
                        Post War Career Railroad president, lottery supervisor, politician.
                        Notes Refused post-war offers to command foreign armies.

                        Name FIELD, Charles William
                        Born April 6 1828, Woodford Cty KY
                        Died April 9 1892, Washington DC
                        Pre-War Profession Graduated West Point 1849, resigned 1861.
                        War Service September 1861 Col. of 6th Virginia Cavalry, March 1862 Brig. Gen., commanded 1st Bde/Hill's Light Division in Seven Days, Cedar Mountain, Second Manassas (w), superintendent of the Bureau of Conscription, February 1864 Maj. Gen., commanded Hood's Divn/I Corps at Wilderness, Spotsylvania, Cold Harbor, Fort Harrison, Darbytown Road, Appomattox.
                        Post War Career Businessman, Egyptian army, doorkeeper of US House of Representatives, civil engineer, superintendent of Indian reservation.
                        ----------
                        Name JORDAN, Thomas
                        Born September 30 1819, Luray VA
                        Died November 27 1895, New York NY
                        Pre-War Profession Graduated West Point 1840, Seminole war, Mexican War, resigned May 1861.
                        War Service 1861 Lt. Col., staff of P G T Beauregard, First Manassas, Shiloh, April 1862 Brig. Gen., staff of Bragg in Army of Tennessee, staff of Beauregard in defense of Charleston.
                        Post War Career Newspaper editor, Cuban revolutionary, contributed to Battles and Leaders
                        Notes
                        ---------
                        Name LORING, William Wing "Old Blizzards"
                        Born December 4 1818, Wilmington NC
                        Died December 30 1886, New York NY
                        Pre-War Profession Planter, lawyer, politician, soldier, Seminole war, Mexican War, resigned May 1861 as a full Col.
                        War Service May 1861 Brig. Gen., commanded forces in western Virginia, Cheat Mountain, February 1862 Maj. Gen. in command of the Army of Southwestern Virginia, corps command in Army of Mississippi, blocked Grant's advance on Vicksburg, command Loring’s Corps in the Army of Tennessee, Atlanta campaign, Carolinas campaign.
                        Post War Career Traveled abroad, service of Khedive of Egypt, returned to US, wrote memoirs.
                        ---------------
                        Name PRINCE DE POLIGNAC, Camille Armand Jules Marie
                        Born February 16 1832, Millemont, France
                        Died November 15 1913, Paris, France
                        Pre-War Profession French army, Crimean war, naturalist.
                        War Service July 1861 Lt. Col. on staff of Beauregard, Shiloh, Corinth, January 1863 Brig. Gen. on Taylor's staff in Trans Mississippi, command Polignac’s Bde/Mouton’s Divn in Red River campaign, Mansfield, June 1863 Maj. Gen., traveled to France to seek support for the Confederacy, was there when the war ended.
                        Post War Career Stayed in France, studied mathematics, Franco-Prussian war.
                        Notes The last surviving Maj. Gen. of the Confederacy.
                        --------
                        Name REYNOLDS, Alexander Welch
                        Born April 1816, Clarke Cty VA
                        Died May 26 1876, Alexandria, Egypt
                        Pre-War Profession West Point 1838, Seminole war, garrison duty, dismissed 1855 for failure to explain accounts irregularities, restored 1858, absented himself early 1861.
                        War Service March 1861 Capt., July 1861 Col. of 50th Virginia, Western Virginia, Vicksburg (s), September 1863 Brig. Gen., commanded Reynolds’ Bde/Stevenson's Divn at Chattanooga, Atlanta campaign, New Hope Church (w), commanded Dist. of Northeast Georgia, relieved because of poor performance.
                        Post War Career Served in Egyptian army.
                        Notes
                        -------
                        Name SHELBY, Joseph Orville “Jo”
                        Born December 12 1830, Lexington KY
                        Died February 13 1897, Adrian MO
                        Pre-War Profession Rope manufacturer, planter, Missouri-Kansas conflict.
                        War Service 1861 Capt. of cavalry, Wilson's Creek, June 1862 Col., commanded a cavalry brigade, Prairie Grove, Helena (w), raided in Missouri 1863, December 1863 Brig. Gen., commanded a division in Price's Missouri raid, fled to Mexico to offer services to Maximilian.
                        Post War Career Returned to US after the downfall of Maximilian, farmer, US marshal.
                        Notes
                        -----------
                        Name SIBLEY, Henry Hopkins
                        Born May 25 1816, Natchitoches LA
                        Died August 23 1886, Fredericksburg VA
                        Pre-War Profession Graduated West Point 1838, Seminole war, Utah expedition, Mexican War, resigned US army May 1861.
                        War Service May 1861 Col., June 1861 Brig. Gen. in command of New Mexico expedition, Valverde, La Glorieta Pass, retreated to San Antonio, assigned to minor commands, court martial but not convicted for disobedience, reported by Kirby Smith as without command.
                        Post War Career General in Egyptian army, returned to US, lectured.
                        Notes Inventor of the Sibley tent.
                        “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                        Mark Twain

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Quite colourfull characters.

                          American generals were thought as a stop gap solution.It was assumed they'll come with a bunch of former comrades,to instill some lessons learned.French and Prussians came instead,as funny as it may sound ,and there was a steady supply of trained officers coming in.The result was a solid performance 10 years later.American oficers may not had marched in the East,but American rifles came and were well received. :)
                          Those who know don't speak
                          He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. Luke 22:36

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Our guys did not have a professional tradition. Most wanted to go home and get on with their lives.
                            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                            Mark Twain

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                              Our guys did not have a professional tradition. Most wanted to go home and get on with their lives.
                              I would also assume there was the support of the government influencing that as well. In most cases I don't think the US really cared. Prussia, France and England had vested interests in establishing those longstanding ties.

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