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  • Michael Vick: Finally Free - What a crock...

    Boycott Barnes & Noble! Puppy Killer Michael Vick Scheduled For Multiple In Store Book Signings

    So Michael Vick wrote a book about his "redemption" and how awesome of a guy he is now that he is rehabilitated after killing a bunch of innocent dogs. I wish so many things for this man. None of them are good.

    Many of you know from Facebook that Confed and I do a lot with dog rescue. We always have at least one (usually 2-3) foster dogs, in addition to our own 2. I train, I evaluate, I transport and I pull dogs from shelters for the rescues we work with to go to other foster homes. We get foster dogs who have been abused and mistreated and starved. Dobermans who should weigh 85 pounds and come in weighing just 40 or 45.

    Rob's dog, Mazy (assumed to be a White Boxer/Pit Bull mix) was a foster dog of ours who had been chained in a basement her whole life until she was kicked out of her home and taken to the vet to be put down by some family of the people who had her. Luckily, the vet they used is also a vet that the rescue we foster for uses and he convinced them to turn Mazy over to him so he could put her in our rescue. She did not like other dogs, and was not real certain with kids. She was only supposed to be here for a few days. Her and my Shepherd, Mandalay, got into a little scuffle and that was that. Mazy was transformed. Her and Dharma became best friends. Mandalay is her second BFF. :) She is now the welcome wagon for all our other fosters. She is a great dog, if you are into happy-go-lucky dogs who love everyone. I have been working with her to get her to stop loving people quite so much (she is a licker, yuck) and I am working toward having her as a Doggone Safe dog. (Doggone Safe is a program that teaches bite prevention to children, and teaches them how to interact with dogs properly, as well as what to do if they are approached by an unfriendly dog to minimize the risk of being bitten or attacked).

    Where I am going with this is that we get to see the ugly side of this stuff. We get to see the dogs who are dumped at shelters after they get old because the family doesn't want them anymore. The dogs who no one spends time training and then are surprised when the dog eats a pair of $200 shoes. The dogs who are abused and tied up in basements and then thrown away. Our current foster dog has a 2" split in his ear from an incident in his previous home. I have no forgiveness for this. None. I have zero tolerance for anyone hurting kids or dogs. There is no excuse good enough, no apology written well enough, and no amount of rehabilitation can make me think that anyone who could do what Michael Vick did is worthy of life.

    There is a very special place in hell for him.
    "To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are."-Sholem Asch

    "I always turn to the sports page first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures."-Earl Warren

    "I didn't intend for this to take on a political tone. I'm just here for the drugs."-Nancy Reagan, when asked a political question at a "Just Say No" rally

    "He no play-a da game, he no make-a da rules."-Earl Butz, on the Pope's attitude toward birth control

  • #2
    The man is scum. I think there is a place for forgiveness in this world. In some ways the preparedness of Americans to accept repentance & forgive can be a positive societal trait.....then there are the other cases. There seems to be some desperate need to forgive celebrities that borders on pathological. Apparently people don't want to believe that famous people can behave as badly as or worse than they do and can't wait to let them off the hook the moment they feign contrition.

    This man should be shunned by civilized society. People should literally turn their backs on him. if it were up to me the punishment for anyone involved in dog fighting (and that includes the audience) would be to handcuff them & throw them into a cage full of the dogs they have so tortured. If they survive then they don't have to go to jail.
    sigpic

    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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    • #3
      I actually have no problem with putting down unwanted dogs. Better that than them becoming feral forcing more destruction. But I do have a problem with people doing the lazy way, drowning or hanging. Those are painful deaths and that should be punished to the extremes of the law.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
        to handcuff them & throw them into a cage full of the dogs they have so tortured. If they survive then they don't have to go to jail.
        Sadly, the dogs are more forgiving than us. They would most likely survive unless they got in the middle of the two dogs. Generally dogs taught to fight have a Stockholm Syndrome with people. They trust the very people who are beating them. It's just other dogs they are taught not to like.
        "To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are."-Sholem Asch

        "I always turn to the sports page first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures."-Earl Warren

        "I didn't intend for this to take on a political tone. I'm just here for the drugs."-Nancy Reagan, when asked a political question at a "Just Say No" rally

        "He no play-a da game, he no make-a da rules."-Earl Butz, on the Pope's attitude toward birth control

        Comment


        • #5
          He should be forbidden from ever having pets again, or even living with someone else who has them.
          sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
          If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

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          • #6
            An accidental injection of rabies would cure that recidivist that's for sure.

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            • #7
              I don't see why he can't be forgiven. I haven't read his book, but it seems to me that his story could help rather than hinder efforts to stop cruelty to dogs and other animals. What's gained by not forgiving someone who has openly admitted their mistakes and has been punished for them?
              To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

              Comment


              • #8
                Its a tough question. Forgiveness is a noble thing for sure, and might be appropriate as long as it doesn't involve forgetfullness. Is he sincere or just trying to get back in the game and make some money? I don't trust this charactor, after what he did, I believe he got off lightly and deserves some long term restrictions on top of time served (I believe he should have no animals, of his own or living in his home for life- IMO). I wouldn't trust him around kids, the infirm or the elderly either. I suppose a lot of drug counselors are former addicts, but they were hurting themselves not animals. Deliberately harming animals as an adult is pretty dispicable, about as bad as you can get without human victims.
                Last edited by USSWisconsin; 10 Mar 13,, 02:55.
                sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by THL View Post
                  Sadly, the dogs are more forgiving than us. They would most likely survive unless they got in the middle of the two dogs. Generally dogs taught to fight have a Stockholm Syndrome with people. They trust the very people who are beating them. It's just other dogs they are taught not to like.
                  Hold on a second THL. You know what two groups of people kill the most dogs- puppy mill breeders and field/show breeders. The show breeders kill puppies by the basket load via drowning to protect either the breeds confirmation. Feild breeders kill any dog they have that can't or wont work to the breed standard. For gun dogs this is called planting and its done to protect the breeds working abilities. Now I don't know enough about the Vic story to comment on him directly but your info on pitbulls is wrong. Pitbulls have been bred since at least 1835 to be animal aggressive and people stable. Hell the whole idea of pedigree comes from the pit fights.

                  I don't condone fighting, but I'd be willing to bet amstaff and staffybull breeders have killed more pitbulls in the last 10 years than dog fighters have in the last hundred. After all in the AKC you can't have a dully(red) nose pitbull only black. A pink or brown nose is a death sentence.

                  Now my current dog is a black lab with st John's water dog throw back showing and she is an inbred wreck. Either a puppy mill or an unscrupulous breeder chasing the dollar was doing a piss poor job of line breeding and the wrecks they created got thrown into a ditch below my house. I lost her brother to parvo but got her through it.

                  The person who did- mass producing dogs for profit is far more deserving of a special place in hell.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by zraver View Post
                    your info on pitbulls is wrong. Pitbulls have been bred since at least 1835 to be animal aggressive and people stable. Hell the whole idea of pedigree comes from the pit fights.
                    I did not mention pit bulls specifically, I said dogs bred to fight, which can be many different dogs. In any case, Pit Bulls are not an agressive breed on their own. As a matter of fact, Pit Bulls pass temperment tests 85.3% of the time. The average for all dogs is 81.9%. (you can check all breeds on the Am temperment Testing Assoc website).

                    Now when you refer to "pit bull" I assume you mean the Am Pit Bull Terrier. Because when the general population refers to a Pit Bull, they are referring to Am Pit Bull Terriers, Am Staffordshire Terriers, Am Bulldog, Bull Terrier, Mini Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Boxer, Bull Mastiff and/or French Bulldogs. Sometimes even adding Cane Corsos and Dogo Argentinos in as well. In fact, they very often include all Mollosian (short stout nosed dogs ) together. So instead of people saying "Dobermans are vicious" in which they are referring to ONE specific type of dog, people say "Pit Bulls are vicious" and they are grouping 8 or 9 distinct breeds of dogs together.

                    Yes, Pit Bulls were originally bred as protection dogs, but GOOD breedings have changed since that time. There, of course, if ALWAYS the back yard breeders and the people breeding specifically FOR fighting. I don't consider them when discussing breeders. GOOD breeders will breed to improve the dog. Dogs that will not go on to improve the breed, are neutered and sold as pet quality. GOOD breeders do NOT kill their pups that should not be bred. BAD breeders and backyard breeders (people in it for money or puppy mills) do lots of bad things.

                    Rarely are dogs used today as they were originally meant to be used thanks to the general public and backyard breeders removing the traits that dogs were originally bred for in trying to pump out as many puppies as they can.

                    Red or blue nosed Pits are not guaranteed a death sentence. They cannot be shown in an AKC ring, but they can and ARE sold as pet quality dogs. If this appears in a GOOD breeders line, a GOOD breeder would cease breeding that line. Just as a GOOD breeder of Dobermans should cease breeding any line that produces an albino or all white pup (which are still AKC registerable, but they are marked with a Z).

                    They have a strong instinct to protect their family and were even nicknamed the Nanny Dog before people became afraid of them and they started falling into the wrong hands. Bite statistics show that there is a high number of Pit Bull bites, however they also show that there is a high number of Pit Bull ownership. If there are 100 of dog "A" and 5 dog "B", it only makes sense that there are going to be more bites from dog "A" since there are more dogs in that group.

                    BTW, within the last couple years (2008 I THINK), a study done by the journal of Applied Animal Behavior Science (U of PA) found that Dachshunds were actually the dog MOST likely to bite. Chihuahuas were second.
                    "To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are."-Sholem Asch

                    "I always turn to the sports page first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures."-Earl Warren

                    "I didn't intend for this to take on a political tone. I'm just here for the drugs."-Nancy Reagan, when asked a political question at a "Just Say No" rally

                    "He no play-a da game, he no make-a da rules."-Earl Butz, on the Pope's attitude toward birth control

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      This man should be shunned by civilized society. People should literally turn their backs on him. if it were up to me the punishment for anyone involved in dog fighting (and that includes the audience) would be to handcuff them & throw them into a cage full of the dogs they have so tortured. If they survive then they don't have to go to jail.
                      Far too harsh. He went to jail and did his time, no person died or was seriously injured.

                      People get carried away on this.
                      To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JAD_333 View Post
                        I don't see why he can't be forgiven. I haven't read his book, but it seems to me that his story could help rather than hinder efforts to stop cruelty to dogs and other animals. What's gained by not forgiving someone who has openly admitted their mistakes and has been punished for them?
                        Along this same thinking we should forgive all pedophiles, murderers, rapists as long as they say they are sorry and agree to do some public speaking?

                        At some point we have to hold people accountable. He KNEW when he was doing this, that he was hurting another living being. He ADMITTED to knowing it was wrong, yet he still did it. I realize that I am biased because I spend each and every day of my life involved in dog rescue, specifically with "difficult breeds" (we are actively involved with Doberman, German Shepherd and Pit Bull rescue), but this man stood in front of the world, pretending to be a role model, pretending to be a decent human, and the whole time he was killing dogs and knew it was wrong.

                        I forgive a lot of things. Taking lives needlessly I do not.
                        "To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are."-Sholem Asch

                        "I always turn to the sports page first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures."-Earl Warren

                        "I didn't intend for this to take on a political tone. I'm just here for the drugs."-Nancy Reagan, when asked a political question at a "Just Say No" rally

                        "He no play-a da game, he no make-a da rules."-Earl Butz, on the Pope's attitude toward birth control

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by THL View Post
                          I did not mention pit bulls specifically, I said dogs bred to fight, which can be many different dogs. In any case, Pit Bulls are not an agressive breed on their own. As a matter of fact, Pit Bulls pass temperment tests 85.3% of the time. The average for all dogs is 81.9%. (you can check all breeds on the Am temperment Testing Assoc website).
                          That test is towards people, not animals.

                          Now when you refer to "pit bull" I assume you mean the Am Pit Bull Terrier. Because when the general population refers to a Pit Bull, they are referring to Am Pit Bull Terriers, Am Staffordshire Terriers, Am Bulldog, Bull Terrier, Mini Bull Terrier, Staffordshire Bull Terrier, Boxer, Bull Mastiff and/or French Bulldogs. Sometimes even adding Cane Corsos and Dogo Argentinos in as well. In fact, they very often include all Mollosian (short stout nosed dogs ) together. So instead of people saying "Dobermans are vicious" in which they are referring to ONE specific type of dog, people say "Pit Bulls are vicious" and they are grouping 8 or 9 distinct breeds of dogs together.
                          Yes I was referring specifically to game dogs- APBT, (but also Amstaff and Staffies, and Am Bulldogs).

                          Yes, Pit Bulls were originally bred as protection dogs,
                          No No No, the game breeds were not bred as protection dogs, it is their diversion from fighting to attack/protection/schutzhund that is a major problem because it uses training to bypass the normal reluctance to bite people. Teaching a game dog to bite people is stupid and dangerous.

                          but GOOD breedings have changed since that time.
                          Modern breedings by commercial breeders are breeding the gameness out of the pit and creating a new breed that larger, (up tow 2x bigger), prone to human aggression and that is not nearly so safe with people.

                          There, of course, if ALWAYS the back yard breeders and the people breeding specifically FOR fighting.
                          In the case of APBT's and dog fighting, its the anti-dog fighting crowd that insured its popularity in a stupid quest for dollars via media cry-a-thons. What had been an underground and small community went inner city chick starting in the 70's and is now endemic. All the quality controls, rules and humane methods that existed went away.

                          I don't consider them when discussing breeders. GOOD breeders will breed to improve the dog.
                          In the case of fighting dogs that means that combination of do or die attitude, rock solid temperament, intelligence, ability to ignore pain and athletic ability... how exactly do you do [improve] that without fighting? About the closest you can get legally now-a-days are hog dogs that are fairly common in the south. Though I am sure somewhere there is a wild pig lobby that wants to ban hog dogs too (game breeds bred to attack wild pigs).

                          Dogs that will not go on to improve the breed, are neutered and sold as pet quality.
                          Cop out THL, each dog sold even if fixed means a dog dies.

                          GOOD breeders do NOT kill their pups that should not be bred.
                          Good breeders do kill non-conforming pups and for one I am thankful. Better a newborn puppy gets drowned than an adult dog betrayed by its family and abandoned dies cold and alone. Each dog born means another dog dies. Its the profit driven breeder that makes excuses and created the whole idea of "pet" quality. Kill non-conforming pups, get pets from shelters= better breeds and less shelter dogs.

                          BAD breeders and backyard breeders (people in it for money or puppy mills) do lots of bad things.
                          Yes they do.

                          Rarely are dogs used today as they were originally meant to be used thanks to the general public and backyard breeders removing the traits that dogs were originally bred for in trying to pump out as many puppies as they can.
                          AKC is equally to blame there, show dogs are not working dogs and working dogs wont win Westminster. Most backyard breeders start with AKC lines, not working dog lines.

                          Red or blue nosed Pits are not guaranteed a death sentence. They cannot be shown in an AKC ring, but they can and ARE sold as pet quality dogs.
                          For profit and at the cost of another dog's life.

                          If this appears in a GOOD breeders line, a GOOD breeder would cease breeding that line. Just as a GOOD breeder of Dobermans should cease breeding any line that produces an albino or all white pup (which are still AKC registerable, but they are marked with a Z).
                          No breed should breed albinos since the risk of deafness is so high look at dogos and white bull terriers for example.

                          They have a strong instinct to protect their family and were even nicknamed the Nanny Dog before people became afraid of them and they started falling into the wrong hands. Bite statistics show that there is a high number of Pit Bull bites, however they also show that there is a high number of Pit Bull ownership. If there are 100 of dog "A" and 5 dog "B", it only makes sense that there are going to be more bites from dog "A" since there are more dogs in that group.
                          Bites went up because of popularity with people who had no business owning them. people who only found out about them because of animal rights activists. Prior to the 1970's the APBT was a predominately rural southern working class dog. Once groups like the ADOA went on the war path about fighting, poorly educated inner city thugs who couldn't tell the difference between fighting and attack jumped on them. Before them it was dobbies, shepherds or rotties. They also heard the story about poisonings, bait animals and cruel training regimes put out by the self same activists and copied them.

                          No longer were dogs put on extensive keeps and trained to a razors edge instead they were fed store bought food and thrown in the pits half crazed, beaten and half starved. Oh and the little 35-40lb pitbull wasn't impressive enough so they started breeding for size and crossing in other breeds for size. They also began using the dog for human aggressive roles like drug guard and protection dog... The modern inner-city pitbull is no nanny dog its a dangerous mongeral created by an unwitting partnership between feel good but do evil activists and inner city thugs.

                          BTW, within the last couple years (2008 I THINK), a study done by the journal of Applied Animal Behavior Science (U of PA) found that Dachshunds were actually the dog MOST likely to bite. Chihuahuas were second.
                          And before that is was cocker spaniels, next will probably be some designer WTF-a doodle breed..

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                          • #14
                            Along this same thinking we should forgive all pedophiles, murderers, rapists as long as they say they are sorry and agree to do some public speaking?
                            He didn't rape or murder - he falls far below that type of criminal.

                            I forgive a lot of things. Taking lives needlessly I do not.
                            He didn't take a human life.
                            To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by troung View Post
                              He didn't rape or murder - he falls far below that type of criminal. He didn't take a human life.
                              No he didn't, I never said he did. But is it ok that he tortured animals? Is it okay that he buried dogs alive? That he committed crimes, felonies, knowingly, and then lied about it before coming clean. That's not ok. It's not ok for our kids to see that this man who makes millions of dollars playing football and who they look up to, thinks he is above the law.

                              I think that where he falls on the scale of what "kind" of criminal he is, is a matter of opinion. Always will be, for every criminal and every crime. Some people think that marijuana charges are bogus because it is not a "hard" drug. Some people think people under 21 should be able to drink if they are at home and with their parents.

                              His intention was to commit a crime. He got up everyday and continued on with his life, knowing it was not only hurting other living creatures needlessly, but was criminal. That thought process is not okay to me. If I don't like someones car, I should not be able to go trash it just because it is not a living thing. It is still illegal, and it is still wrong.

                              Studies show that murderers almost always started on animals. Who is to say that killing a person would not have been his next step had he not been caught? We don't know. Far fetched I know :) but all I know is that he committed felonies knowingly and without remorse UNTIL he was caught. Had he not been caught, he'd still be doing it and not have any mal feelings about it.
                              "To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are."-Sholem Asch

                              "I always turn to the sports page first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures."-Earl Warren

                              "I didn't intend for this to take on a political tone. I'm just here for the drugs."-Nancy Reagan, when asked a political question at a "Just Say No" rally

                              "He no play-a da game, he no make-a da rules."-Earl Butz, on the Pope's attitude toward birth control

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