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  • EU Constitution

    The EU Constitution is a disaster waiting to happen. It is over 150 pages of contridictions and statements that could be so easily manipulated. On top of this it does not list the most basic of rights. Namely the right to life, liberty, property, and persuit of ones own happiness. But somehow they manage to mention space exploration.

    If the EU becomes an actual political entity there is a chance Europe could eventually break down into War.

  • #2
    You raise an excellent point sir. First of all the length is entirely too long. However that is the nature of many Constitutions outside the United States. At least for those that do have Constitutions. I would argue that at the minimum the European Union is already a de facto political entity.

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    • #3
      And a defacto political nightmare. I couldn't imagine tying my fortunes to the likes of France....

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      • #4
        Originally posted by JulianStarr
        You raise an excellent point sir. First of all the length is entirely too long. However that is the nature of many Constitutions outside the United States. At least for those that do have Constitutions. I would argue that at the minimum the European Union is already a de facto political entity.
        The United states was a political entity prior to, and after, the Constitution adopted. We waged a civil war to prevent the dissollution of that entity. Is Europe prepared to do the same?
        sigpicUSS North Dakota

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        • #5
          The US Constitution was drawn with very good intentions. Since then, the Amendments thereto have all but rendered the original Constitution moot.

          Contraditions are intentional by the Government for loop holes for the political entity to have room to maneuver.

          You might use the cliche, aren't rules made to be broken?

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          • #6
            Well, we can compare sections of the US and EU constitutions that concern similar matters.

            US:
            Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
            Europe:
            Any nation in Europe that does not have an established religion as of the signing of this document shall not establish a state religion, and neither shall any state that accedes to the European Union that does not have an established religion at the signing of this document. There are several states within Europe that will be allowed to keep their state religions, the following being: England with the Anglican Church, Greece with the Greek Orthodox Church, Denmark, Sweden, and Finland with the Evangelical Lutheran Church, and Scotland, the Church of Scotland, aka the Presbyterian Church.

            No state shall prohibit the free exercise of religion, unless it's a religion deemed dangerous to the internal stability of that state. Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses are among those deemed a danger to the stability of all of Europe, as well as Evangelical Protestants like those in the United States. Jesuits can be forbidden in the northern European states. Any group deemed a 'cult' maybe be acted against in any way. Wahabbism (also known as Salafism) are not to be forbidden in anyway.

            People should generally be able to speak whatever is on their mind, unless it is discussion about race, religion, immigration, government social policies, etc. A prison term of 5-10 years will suffice for all offenders. It is imperative that we jail the owners of dogs who teach the dogs to do a Hitler salute.

            There shall be a freedom of the press, unless it conflicts with the governments of the various European states. Every state is entitled to make full use of nationalized broadcasting facilities to disseminate propaganda among the masses. No newspapers can be printed with soybean ink from genetically engineered soybeans.

            People should be discouraged from peacefully assembling, they should be dispersed with teargas and rubber bullets. Violent assembly, which usually occur during World Trade Organization and Bilderberger meetings, should be left alone, unless they destroy more than twenty-five percent (25%) of the town they are rioting in.

            Citizens by all means are free to petition the EU government and the government of the state they live in, but they won't get answered.
            "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

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            • #7
              LOL :LOL

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              • #8
                I await with bated breath.


                "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                HAKUNA MATATA

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                • #9
                  The EU Constitution is not a national constitution that is why, football clubs have constitutions, political action groups have constitutions, the EU is a supranational economic and political union like no other in the world and because its a new thing in the world some people have a hard time understanding it.

                  EEC/EC/EU has had a constitution for a long time now the only difference is that while this treaty is 200 pages long the previous system of treaties was tens of thousands of pages long. 80% of the clauses from the new treaty are copied directly from previous treaties, this constitution shouldnt be compared to the US Constitution because as I just stated they are for different purposes although I do hope one day it will lead to a Federal Europe with a new Federal Constitution.

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                  • #10
                    Bobbylad,

                    From what see on BBC, I believe that the British are not too keen on it, nor the Scandanavians.

                    However, sure what to know more of the same. It is quite interesting to find an English speaking person speak up for the EU. Are you British?

                    From the discussion of speakers on the BBC, I reckon it is a fear of being swamped by the French and the Germans. How far is that correct? Further, they are also wondering of making a European Army. This is causing another fierce debate vis a vis the status of NATO. In fact, it is beleived that the idea of an European Army is just to keep the US out of it, since the task apparently would be the same.
                    Last edited by Ray; 19 Oct 03,, 13:36.


                    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                    HAKUNA MATATA

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The current Constitution for the united States was actually one of the greatest frauds perpetuated. The Annapolis Convention met to amend the Articles of Confederation, not to come up with a new Constitution.

                      The war between the Sovereign States, did fundamentally alter the Constitution forever, it was an American Revolution. Thank the lord however the Constitution has endured through it all, despite the Supreme Court's best effort.

                      The European Union would do well to allow for a "Right to secession" and to recognize that it was the member Nation-States that created the Union and NOT the other way around. Oh and a "one size fits all policy" a la Brussels should not be continued.

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                      • #12
                        Yes I am a British "Subject" and a European Citizen, I am certainly in favour of our membership of the EU as are most people in this country however one thing which is a problem is how little people in this nation actually know about the EU. We dont teach any post war history in our schools other than the Cold War, our foreign languages are shocking, only a tiny proportion of the country speak speak a second European Language and if you were to quiz people about how the EU works I doubt many would know to be honest. That needs to be tackled first and foremost in order to stop extremists like the UK Indepdence Party and the British National Party being seen as serious by some people.

                        I dont know about being "swamped" there is always opposion to immigration although if the people involved have dark skin that tends to wind up the usual suspects more. We already have nearly a million "non British" EU citizens living in our country as it is, I dont see it as a problem and compared to tension which has existed with other immigrant communities its nothing.

                        Also why is it always "French and Germans", im not just picking on you here but every time the issue of Europe is discussed its either the French or the "French and Germans" who get brought into it, they are just two countries, the largest and third largest why not "Spanish and Italians" or "Sweeds and Dutch" you know its the typical ignorance shown about the EU that it centres around two countries it doesnt thats nonsense and its one of the myths put about by xenophobes in countries around the EU (apart from in France and Germany).

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                        • #13
                          Julian there is a right to leave the EU in the draft constitution and a relativly quick process for doing so once it has been exercised.

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                          • #14
                            I see many parallels between the United Kingdom and the United States. Both of our Nations are not too fluent in other European languages, and have reservations about the European Union.

                            The whole "French and German" syndrome is partially an American characterization, stemming from the Iraq issue. It is also because those two countries didn't exactly love each other prior to this date.

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                            • #15
                              EEC/EC/EU has had a constitution for a long time now the only difference is that while this treaty is 200 pages long the previous system of treaties was tens of thousands of pages long. 80% of the clauses from the new treaty are copied directly from previous treaties, this constitution shouldnt be compared to the US Constitution because as I just stated they are for different purposes although I do hope one day it will lead to a Federal Europe with a new Federal Constitution.
                              What is the point of the EU?

                              If everyone has free trade with each other, what's the point of having a political entity. The only thing I can think of is POWER.

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