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bigross86
24 Jul 12,, 00:31
If you want, the petition can be found in the following link.

International Olympic Committee: Minute of Silence at the 2012 London Olympics. (http://www.change.org/petitions/international-olympic-committee-minute-of-silence-at-the-2012-london-olympics#)


At the 1972 Munich Olympic Games, eleven members of the Israeli team were murdered. For forty years their families have asked the International Olympic Committee to observe a minute of silence, in their memory. Please help us by signing our petition.

I am the wife of Andrei Spitzer. My husband was killed at those Olympic Games in 1972.

I am asking for one minute of silence for the memory of the eleven Israeli athletes, coaches and referees murdered at the 1972 summer Olympics in Munich. Just one minute — at the 2012 London Summer Olympics and at every Olympic Game, to promote peace.

These men were sons; fathers; uncles; brothers; friends; teammates; athletes. They came to Munich in 1972 to play as athletes in the Olympics; they came in peace and went home in coffins, killed in the Olympic Village and during hostage negotiations.

The families of the Munich 11 have worked for four decades to obtain recognition of the Munich massacre from the International Olympic Committee. We have requested a minute of silence during the opening ceremonies of the Olympics starting with the ’76 Montreal Games. Repeatedly, these requests have been turned down. The 11 murdered athletes were members of the Olympic family; we feel they should be remembered within the framework of the Olympic Games.

We are asking again to be heard in time for the 2012 London Summer Olympics. In 2010 JCC Rockland, New York contacted me and offered their help and made it their mission for their 2012 JCC Maccabi Games to honor the Munich 11 through multiple events as well as spearheading this petition.

Silence is a fitting tribute for athletes who lost their lives on the Olympic stage. Silence contains no statements, assumptions or beliefs and requires no understanding of language to interpret.

I have no political or religious agenda. Just the hope that my husband and the other men who went to the Olympics in peace, friendship and sportsmanship are given what they deserve. One minute of silence will clearly say to the world that what happened in 1972 can never happen again. Please do not let history repeat itself.
For my husband Andrei and the others killed, we must remember the doctrine of the Olympic Spirit, “to build a peaceful and better world which requires mutual understanding with a spirit of friendship, solidarity and fair play," is more powerful than politics.

40 years is long enough to wait.

Go to Munich11.org (http://www.munich11.org) to learn more about how the JCC Rockland, in New York took up our fight to remedy injustice with the support & gratitude of the families of the Munich 11 and to learn the history of a day we should never forget.

Thank you, Ankie Spitzer and JCC Rockland.

zraver
24 Jul 12,, 02:26
I voted no, its too long ago in the past and would only serve to politicize the Olympics. If Israeli athletes want to wear a black band on their uniforms or something, go for it and if spectators and competitors from other nations want to join them fine. But a moment of silence would ahve to come from the Olympic Commity and that would be political.

bigross86
24 Jul 12,, 09:16
WWII was too long in the past, and would only serve to politicize a conflict best forgotten. If Americans want to wear a band on their uniforms or something, go for it, and if other nations want to join them fine. But events marking D-Day, V-E Day, V-J Day, etc... would be political.

Seriously?! Too long ago?! By that rational there are dozens if not hundreds of ceremonies carried out all over the world that are no longer relevant and should no longer be held. Let's begin with January 27. The fact that the UN chose to designate this as an international day and carries out educational activities throughout the week is just plain wrong.

The 11 murdered athletes were Israelis, yes, but they were also Olympians. They came to the arena where political differences are (normally) set aside in favor of the goodwill and international cooperation of the games, and were murdered for their efforts. A minute of silence is not there to commemorate the death of Israelis, it's there to commemorate the death of Olympians.

It is the exact opposite, the refusal for a minute of silence which is what politicizes matters. If they were US athletes, British athletes, Russian, Chinese, Swiss, South African, Indian, Australian athletes or athletes from anywhere else on the globe, there would be no problem. Because they are Israeli and this will piss off the Arabs, a minute of silence is a no go.

No, not the sign of an inferiority complex, cold hard truth.

zraver
24 Jul 12,, 16:00
The 11 murdered athletes were Israelis, yes, but they were also Olympians. They came to the arena where political differences are (normally) set aside in favor of the goodwill and international cooperation of the games, and were murdered for their efforts. A minute of silence is not there to commemorate the death of Israelis, it's there to commemorate the death of Olympians.

They were ambassadors of peace and goodwill no one disputes that, they were also brutally murdered by terrorists again no dispute..


It is the exact opposite, the refusal for a minute of silence which is what politicizes matters. If they were US athletes, British athletes, Russian, Chinese, Swiss, South African, Indian, Australian athletes or athletes from anywhere else on the globe, there would be no problem. Because they are Israeli and this will piss off the Arabs, a minute of silence is a no go.

Does Israel have a minute of silence for the four Australian athletes killed and 60 injured in Israel?


No, not the sign of an inferiority complex, cold hard truth.

I disagree, I posted my reasons for voting no and you whip out the race card. Like I said above, is there any type of memorial for the Maccabiah Bridge Collapse? Thanks to willful criminal acts by greedy Israelis people died. What about the Atlanta victims why didn't you mention them? I also don't want the terrorists brought back from the dead and stitched into the undead zombie life of martyrdom.

Ben get off the whiny oppressed Jew shtick your a vet not a baby and its annoying. Its gotten to the point where no one can disagree with you anymore at all without you running around yelling oppression.

bigross86
24 Jul 12,, 16:18
Does Israel have a minute of silence for the four Australian athletes killed and 60 injured in Israel?

Yes, as a matter of fact, The morning after the bridge disaster, in a meeting attended by Israeli president Ezer Weizman, the entire Australian delegation met and decided to continue in the games. The games resumed after 24 hours and each event started with a moment of silence for the fallen athletes.


I disagree, I posted my reasons for voting no and you whip out the race card. Like I said above, is there any type of memorial for the Maccabiah Bridge Collapse? Thanks to willful criminal acts by greedy Israelis people died. What about the Atlanta victims why didn't you mention them? I also don't want the terrorists brought back from the dead and stitched into the undead zombie life of martyrdom.

Like I just corrected you, there was a minute of silence following the Maccabiah disaster. What you need to realize is that the reason the motion for the minutes of silence is being denied is just that. Race. I'm not the one that brought race into the picture, the IOC is.

This is not whining, this is telling it as it is. Maybe your liberal bleeding heart just can't stand hearing the cold hard truth as it's spoken (typed) to you. I'm the last person to use the "the world is against us" argument, so when I finally do use it, that should tell you something. In this case it's not the world, it's the IOC, and for reasons they made clear: They are scared of causing conflict based on the fact that the murdered athletes were Israelis.

FluffyThoughts
28 Jul 12,, 10:57
Long-time, no-see!

Sorry Big-Ross: Whilst I respect your views and the nation of Israel, it is not right to bring the events of Munich to my London doorstep. The whole issue of the Palestine mandate defies rationality. We in the UK will stand beside your nation but we will also question your nation's roles and responsibilities to 'the other side'.

To put it in context: World Holocaust Day is primarily a rememberence of the Western democracies failure to protect the Jewish diaspora. Whilst we recognise other conflicts - East-African Indians, Bosnians, Tutsis (and even the Irish 'famine') the main issue is our failue to protect those of who we feel a great deal of guilt towards. Maybe it is time for a similar appraisal of the plight of the Palestinians...?

bigross86
28 Jul 12,, 12:16
In February 2010, IOC president Jacques Rogge told the world about Georgian luger Nodar Kumaritashvili dying in a training accident just prior to the opening of the 2010 Winter Games. During the opening ceremony, Rogge and other IOC officials led a minute of silence in Kumaritashvili's memory.

So, why is is perfectly acceptable to hold a minute of silence for a Georgian who died in a training accident prior to the Olympics and not for 11 Israelis murdered in a heinous act of terror committed and perpetrated at the Olympics themselves? Either all Olympians are equal, regardless of their country of origin by merit of their being Olympians, or they aren't. Rogge claims a minute of silence for the Munich 11 will bring politics into the games. However, it is Rogge's refusal to honor Israeli Olympians while honoring other dead Olympians is what is actually bringing the politics into the games.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is not an issue at the Olympic Games and should not be an issue. The 11 murdered athletes were international Olympians competing on an international stage, and yet were murdered because they were Israelis. The IOC should have commemorated them as Olympians as it did Nodar Kumaritashvili. This failure on the part of the IOC brings disgrace upon that entire body and taints the Olympic Games, involving politics in a game that heralds international cooperation and sporting competition.

There is enough racism already prevalent in these Olympic Games brought by the teams theselves, as shown only yesterday by the Lebanese Judo team's refusal to train in sight of Israelis until a barrier was put in place to separate the teams. The Algerian and Iranian Olympic Committees have stated they won't compete against Israeli athletes. The IOC should not be contributing to this.

Officer of Engineers
28 Jul 12,, 12:28
Life is not fair. The world is not fair. Stop whining. Grow up. Live with it. Deal with it.

bigross86
28 Jul 12,, 12:58
This is how we are choosing to deal with it, by showing the IOC's hypocrisy and demanding something we desire and believe in. Or do you suggest that every injustice in the world, both big and small, should just be ignored, since "The world is not fair"?

As someone who has been where you were, has seen what you saw, and fought the battles you fought, it's a shame to see you say something like that. You were sent to fight under the flag of the UN and wore the Blue Beret. Would you have rather stayed home and allow countless more people to die because "The world is not fair", or did you believe in your mission because it was the right thing to do? Where do you draw the line between accepting injustice and fighting for what you believe in?

For shame.

Chogy
28 Jul 12,, 13:05
Last night, during the opening ceremony, they announced that multiple minutes of silence had been held at various times and venues over the last 40 years.

Officer of Engineers
28 Jul 12,, 13:41
For shame.That's right. For shame. Did UNPROFOR bring punish anyone? Did we arrest any of the big criminals? Did we give justice to all who were raped and murdered?

We stopped the killing. That's it. We allowed the criminals to go free because if we went after them, the killings were going to start again. So, life is not fair. We did the best we could and we lived with it.

bigross86
28 Jul 12,, 13:55
But you still did the right thing and stopped the killing. You could have just sat there and said "The world is not fair" and let them kill each other out until one side was less dead than the other and the winner by default, but you didn't. There was a right thing to do, and it was done, like you said, the best way you could.

Considering the fact that there have been moments of silence held in previous Olympic ceremonies for whatever reason, why should we not fight for a minute of silence for the Munich 11?

Officer of Engineers
28 Jul 12,, 13:59
But you still did the right thing and stopped the killing. You could have just sat there and said "The world is not fair" and let them kill each other out until one side was less dead than the other and the winner by default, but you didn't.Like hell we didn't. We did not reverse Krajina nor arrested anyone for Srebrenecia.


There was a right thing to do, and it was done, like you said, the best way you could.And we shut the hell up.


Considering the fact that there have been moments of silence held in previous Olympic ceremonies for whatever reason, why should we not fight for a minute of silence for the Munich 11?You did fight for it. You lost. Now grow up and take it.

bigross86
28 Jul 12,, 14:14
You did fight for it. You lost. Now grow up and take it.

There's no reason to. These are not the last Olympic Games. We may have lost the battle over the London 2012 Olympics, but that doesn't mean we should give up.

Officer of Engineers
28 Jul 12,, 14:16
Then at the very least, stop your whining about these games.

bigross86
28 Jul 12,, 14:30
My last comment on the subject was 4 days ago until the thread was bumped today. I wasn't complaining about it, I was pointing out IOC hypocrisy, there is a world of difference.

The other Olympics thread was not complaining about the minute of silence, it was to chronicle the beginning of the hostile behavior of other nations of the world towards Israel and the IOC's shameful decision allowing that behavior to persist. It's a fairy safe wager that this is not the last anti-Israel behavior we will see at these games.

zraver
28 Jul 12,, 14:47
In February 2010, IOC president Jacques Rogge told the world about Georgian luger Nodar Kumaritashvili dying in a training accident just prior to the opening of the 2010 Winter Games. During the opening ceremony, Rogge and other IOC officials led a minute of silence in Kumaritashvili's memory.


IIRC it happened on site, it was fresh and new, not decades old.

bigross86
28 Jul 12,, 16:20
Again, why should age be a function here? Many ceremonies are held all over the world to commemorate events that happened decades prior

Officer of Engineers
28 Jul 12,, 18:59
Because they wanted it to be.

Chunder
29 Jul 12,, 14:56
Again, why should age be a function here? Many ceremonies are held all over the world to commemorate events that happened decades prior

Hey Ben, look. Every ANZAC day that is officiated by a government dignatory be it politician or representative from the armed services - before the service is given - now gives an epilogue about how they recognise the land's traditional original owners, the indigenous (insert tribe name here), and the unfair treatment they received at the hands of a foreign entity due to the actions of another.

People like me, who just go to pay their respects - have to go through this perpetual trinket tokenism 'ordeal'. The memories of the fallen aren't beholden to someone else for the sake of some political statement. That isn't the reason why we are there. The olympics aren't about the deaths of any nationality, that isn't what they exist for. For how many centuries do you propose everyone must endure a minute of officialdom silence - of an event they don't really give a shit about, that has no bearing on the meaning of the olympics. How many numb arses are you after, and more to the point, just what do YOU hope to acheive? Can you exactly quantify how this will benefit anyone, an official endorsement or sanction other than to satisfy you that the IOC aren't a bunch of hypocrites.

Your request or cause, is more about pacifying you rather than public awareness. You want PA - raise your own awareness within your own bounds. How about all the athletes that come from war torn countries, how must they listen to others carping on about the peaceful unity of the games or their causes for special recognition. How many times can one just piss all over an event by doing X, to warrant an official comment until Pleb public has to troll through minutes of monotony.

You want others to pause to reflect, give them their own time to do so. You want to force it onto people, then I suggest North Korea may have a useful role for you seeing that adequate time is spent showing respect to causes/statues that the state deems worthy.

Events like the olympics inevitably get used by people who want a spring board for something. Look, before you start talking about how I'm heartless or lack empathy, I feel no more empathy for Munich (at least you got a film out of that) than the guy next door at work who got his head stomped on violently and viciously by 5 others on the weekend. There are dickheads. They don't deserve the time of day, don't give them that satisfaction.

Bigfella
29 Jul 12,, 15:30
Personally I'm agnostic on this, so I didn't vote. The IOC can choose to remember this however it wants. What fascinates and saddens me is the way this is being used as 'proof' of some sort of prejudice.

So, should there be a minute of silence for those killed at Munich at every Olympics? Every second one? Just the ones whose year ends in '2'? What is the standard? The failure to do which of the above is the appropriate standard for 'prejudice' or 'hypocricy'. If there is no minute of silence for the Atlanta victims at the opening ceremony of the next games will this be proof of anti-American prejudice. Will those who accused or implied prejudice here accept that there was consistency? Of course, the IOC has held a commemoration of the event this year, so the issue here is not that the IOC has chosen to ignore the anniversary, but that they have chosen to commemorate it in a different way from that being demanded. You really can't set a bar for 'prejudice' much lower than that.

zraver
29 Jul 12,, 16:33
Again, why should age be a function here? Many ceremonies are held all over the world to commemorate events that happened decades prior

What international remembrance ceremonies for decades old events are held that obligate everyone to observe?

antimony
29 Jul 12,, 18:33
This is an international event meant to celebrate and explore human capabilities. Please check out your politics at the door.

Chunder
30 Jul 12,, 11:36
^^ Not that my lonesome matters much, but I didn't vote either. I've made a personal commitment, as much as possible, not to cultivate loaded questions/polls.

tankie
01 Aug 12,, 16:15
This is an international event meant to celebrate and explore human capabilities. Please check out your politics at the door.

Good luck to the Brazilian hurdlers at the Olympics , the last time one ov em jumped over a barrier in Londonistan ,,,,,,the metropolitan police shot him dead :whome: