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Tronic
21 Jun 12,, 09:26
China, India should settle border issues: Wen


Rio de Janeiro: Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao said here on Wednesday that China and India should enhance political and strategic mutual trust so as to advance bilateral ties on the right track.

Wen made the appeal during a meeting with his Indian counterpart Manmohan Singh on the sidelines of the UN Conference on Sustainable Development, known as the Rio+20 summit, which started here on Wednesday afternoon.

Noting that the two neighbours are both large developing countries, Wen said, "The rapid development of both countries and the steady improvement of their relations have brought huge changes to the world."

In the last decade, he said, China and India established and developed a strategic and cooperative partnership, formulated several important dialogue mechanisms and maintained peace in the border region.

He also lauded the rapidly growing Chinese-Indian trade, the increasingly frequent people-to-people exchanges and the joint efforts in safeguarding the interests of developing countries on major international issues.

"Under the current complex global and regional circumstances, China and India face mutual challenges and opportunities," Wen said, adding that deepening their strategic and cooperative partnership serves the fundamental interests of both countries and the world at large.

The two sides, he said, need to further consolidate their political and strategic mutual trust and make sure that their relations will move forward on the right track.

Meanwhile, Wen proposed that the two neighbours further promote pragmatic cooperation and two-way investment and carry out more exchange programs between the two countries' youth and media among others.

They should also continue to settle border issues and maintain peace and stability in the borderlands, and enhance coordination on global and regional affairs to make new contributions to world prosperity, stability and sustainable development, he added.

For his part, Singh said India attaches great importance to its relationship with China and regards it as an important component of India's modernisation strategy and a pillar of world peace and stability.

India is willing to work with China to strengthen strategic communication and coordination, maintain peace on the frontier and promote economic and trade cooperation, he added.

India, he said, will neither allow anyone to stage anti-China activities in its territory nor join any scheme to contain or besiege China.

ANI

China, India should settle border issues: Wen (http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/china-india-should-settle-border-issues-wen_783065.html)

Can't count how many birds this one stone can kill. It's positive news, and hopefully the two countries can put the border disputes behind them and move towards a mutually beneficial relationship.

Bigfella
21 Jun 12,, 10:33
Can't count how many birds this one stone can kill. It's positive news, and hopefully the two countries can put the border disputes behind them and move towards a mutually beneficial relationship.

Very good news if they can pull it off. Every move toward closer & friendlier relations between two of the nations that will dominate the C21st is a good thing. It can only be to the benefit of both nations & others besides.

hammer
21 Jun 12,, 10:46
They should also continue to settle border issues and maintain peace and stability in the borderlands, and enhance coordination on global and regional affairs to make new contributions to world prosperity, stability and sustainable development, he added.

India, he said, will neither allow anyone to stage anti-China activities in its territory nor join any scheme to contain or besiege China.


Lets consider a hypothetical situation where India and China resolve their border issues amicably. What kind of effect would that have on China-Pak relations and the Tibetan Govt-in-exile in India?

Bigfella
21 Jun 12,, 12:21
Lets consider a hypothetical situation where India and China resolve their border issues amicably. What kind of effect would that have on China-Pak relations and the Tibetan Govt-in-exile in India?

Bad news for Pakistan and Tibet, but worse for Tibet. China will probably hedge its bets to a point & maintain good relations with Pakistan, though it may be a more distant friend. Given the state of relations with the US a more distant China is still bad news for Pakistan. Running out of friends. Unless there is a vauable domestic constituency for the Tibet issue the Dalia lama & his supporters might find life increasingly difficult. Just ask the Kurds what life can be like when your benefactor no longer wants to use you.

Double Edge
21 Jun 12,, 13:00
Can't count how many birds this one stone can kill. It's positive news, and hopefully the two countries can put the border disputes behind them and move towards a mutually beneficial relationship.
How much importance should we attach to the words of an outgoing premier ?

hammer
21 Jun 12,, 15:43
Bad news for Pakistan and Tibet, but worse for Tibet. China will probably hedge its bets to a point & maintain good relations with Pakistan, though it may be a more distant friend. Given the state of relations with the US a more distant China is still bad news for Pakistan. Running out of friends. Unless there is a vauable domestic constituency for the Tibet issue the Dalia lama & his supporters might find life increasingly difficult. Just ask the Kurds what life can be like when your benefactor no longer wants to use you.

True. I agree.

Tronic
21 Jun 12,, 22:11
How much importance should we attach to the words of an outgoing premier ?

Doesn't do us any harm.

The border dispute may be years from being solved, if not decades, but even mere words can help in changing the attitudes on both sides.

Bigfella
22 Jun 12,, 02:18
How much importance should we attach to the words of an outgoing premier ?

There are others here better qualified to asses, but my take would be that it doesn't carry the same weight as a new appointee, but is still to be taken seriously. I struggle to believe that even an outgoing Premier would just go off on a jaunt like this because it took his fancy. You have to figure this represents a view that has serious traction in senior circles in Beijing. Now, what that all means in practical terms is another matter. Saying 'we should iron out our differences' is a damned sight easier than actually getting down to brass tacks and finalizing lines on maps. Still, it is movement in the right direction from the folks in a position to do something about it.

Good news for mine - lets see what the follow up is.

Officer of Engineers
22 Jun 12,, 05:05
The border is a practical non-issue. Neither side is in a hurry to stop it and frankly, there's no incentive to stopping it. Practically, the militaries on both sides have taken steps for confidence building and conflict avoidance. Moving border markers may make big head lines to argue for defence spending but in the scheme of things, nothing to worry about. A border marker on the Sino-Indo border is a rock. A border market on the Indo-Pak border is a machine gun nest.

Whatever the border dispute, it has not stopped increasing Sino-Indo trade, exponentially I might add. Chinese companies and workers have successfully finished contracts in India and Indian companies are flourishing in China. Settling the border issue will not increase this trend any faster.

citanon
22 Jun 12,, 05:33
The border is a practical non-issue. Neither side is in a hurry to stop it and frankly, there's no incentive to stopping it. Practically, the militaries on both sides have taken steps for confidence building and conflict avoidance. Moving border markers may make big head lines to argue for defence spending but in the scheme of things, nothing to worry about. A border marker on the Sino-Indo border is a rock. A border market on the Indo-Pak border is a machine gun nest.

Whatever the border dispute, it has not stopped increasing Sino-Indo trade, exponentially I might add. Chinese companies and workers have successfully finished contracts in India and Indian companies are flourishing in China. Settling the border issue will not increase this trend any faster.

On the other hand it might be wise to get the good stuff going while the going is still good.

payeng
22 Jun 12,, 22:43
None of the two nations consider each other as an enemy, but the relationships sometimes goes through a roller coaster ride.

India plans Army drill with China | Deccan Chronicle (http://www.deccanchronicle.com/channels/nation/north/india-plans-army-drill-china-686)

xinhui
24 Jun 12,, 00:54
outside of the border issue, there are several joint initiatives are already under way.....


Anti-piracy bid: South Korea joins India, Japan, China

Anti-piracy bid: South Korea joins India, Japan, China - The Times of India (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Anti-piracy-bid-South-Korea-joins-India-Japan-China/articleshow/14070605.cms)

NEW DELHI: South Korea is now all set to join the India-China-Japan combine's coordinated naval patrols and escort of merchant vessels through the piracy-infested Gulf of Aden.


Sources say South Korea is likely to join the "third cycle" of the "escort and convoy coordination" plan that will be set in motion in July. Under the tri-lateral arrangement worked out among India, China and Japan, their navies have been coordinating to strengthen anti-piracy efforts in the Gulf of Aden since January.


Under the first cycle, the Chinese Navy was the "lead" or "reference" force for three months, with the Indian and Japanese navies chipping in to plug the gaps. In the second cycle launched in April, India is currently the primary naval force in the tri-lateral arrangement in the Gulf of Aden under which stealth frigate INS Tabar is leading from the front.


In all, since October 2008, Indian warships have ensured the safe passage of close to 2,000 vessels from around 50 countries through the strategic trade-route of the Gulf of Aden. With the pirates now also operating around 1,100 nautical miles away from Somalia's coast in the Arabian Sea, the Navy and Coast Guard have actively thwarted many pirate attacks on merchant vessels near Indian shores too.


Photos of the recent join Sino-India navy drill

Double Edge
25 Jun 12,, 12:15
Here is another joint initiative..

Slowly coming to fruition six years after a very basic point was ennuciated (http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl2303/stories/20060224002309000.htm) by our then petrol minister in Beijing.


It is, therefore, hardly surprising that almost everywhere in the world that an Indian goes in quest of energy, chances are that he will run into a Chinese engaged in the same hunt. The Chinese hunter has been rather more successful than the Indian on several occasions in the recent past. But the fact is that aggressive bidding by either party only pushes up the price of the asset to the advantage of the seller and the disadvantage of both bidders. In the end, whether the winner is China or India, the buyer ends up paying more - and sometimes substantially more - than might have been the case if bidding against each other had been replaced, or at least moderated, by prior consultation.

ONGC, CNPC to jointly bid for assets | Live Mint | Jun 19 2012 (http://www.livemint.com/Articles/PrintArticle.aspx?artid=555EB3B8-B9C5-11E1-B0A4-000B5DABF613)

ONGC, CNPC to jointly bid for assets
The deal could also see the Chinese firm participating in efforts to develop and exploit ONGC’s domestic assets
Tue, Jun 19 2012. 11:47 PM IST
Utpal Bhaskar

New Delhi: India’s Oil and Natural Gas Corp. Ltd (ONGC) and China National Petroleum Corp. (CNPC) inked an agreement in New Delhi on Monday to jointly bid for energy assets overseas in a move that could have a significant impact on the global race for oil and gas blocks.

The memorandum of understanding also involves cooperation in so-called upstream, midstream and downstream opportunities. Upstream activities refer to exploration and production from hydrocarbon assets; midstream to transportation pipelines and the liquified natural gas business; and downstream refers to refining, marketing and distribution of petroleum products. The agreement was signed between Sudhir Vasudeva, chairman and managing director, ONGC, and Jiang Jiemen, chairman, CNPC.

The deal could also see CNPC participating in efforts to develop and exploit ONGC’s domestic assets.

The primary purpose of the agreement, however, seems to be to ensure that bidding for global energy assets doesn’t get out of hand as it has in the past.

“We should collaborate and bid together,” said D.K. Sarraf, managing director, ONGC Videsh Ltd (OVL). “There is no point in raising prices. A memorandum of understanding was signed.” He clarified that neither partner has an immediate property in mind for which they can bid together.

To be sure, the two firms did have an earlier arrangement, but that was limited to hydrocarbon exploration and production, and didn’t result in much cooperation or coordinated bidding.

“This (the new agreement) is for examining possibilities of mutual interest in upstream, downstream and all related areas,” Vasudeva told Reuters.

With India importing more than 80% of its energy needs, state-owned firms have been scouting overseas for securing assets and have invested Rs 64,832.35 crore in the effort. This push has pitted the country against China in a race for the world’s resources. This competition for resources has in turn raised prices for the assets of both Indian and Chinese firms.

While OVL, the overseas arm of ONGC, and CNPC had earlier collaborated in Sudan and have worked together on projects in Syria and Myanmar, an institutional arrangement will bring the two rivals together and will have a global impact. OVL invested $2.5 billion in petroleum exploration and production in undivided Sudan as part of Greater Nile Petroleum Operating Co., in which it owns a 25% stake. Its partners are CNPC (40%), Petronas Carigali Overseas Sdn Bhd (30%) and Sudapet Co. Ltd (5%).

“We have to build on this association,” an ONGC executive said, speaking on condition of anonymity. “Apart from jointly scoping overseas assets, the Chinese are also interested in investing in our domestic assets. They have asked us to show them what we have. It is now dependent on the security establishment how to take this forward.”

The development comes at a time when the two countries have been discussing ways to double bilateral trade to $100 billion by 2015 and to plug a yawning trade gap in China’s favour.

“Securing energy supply continues to be a key strategic objective for China and India, both of whom continue to generate growth, and are concerned with the high energy prices,” said Gokul Chaudhri, a partner at audit and consulting firm BMR Advisors Pvt. Ltd. “This requires both nations to undertake geopolitical risks in frontier areas like Africa and Myanmar, with significant financial outlays. In the past also, the two countries have sought to collaborate rather than compete in view of their mutual need for overseas acreages and energy security.”

“This renewed effort, in the backdrop of improved economic ties, should yield long-term benefit to not just India and China, but also to the nations in which such joint energy projects are developed,” he added.

China and India will be the world’s largest and third largest economies and energy consumers by 2030, respectively, jointly accounting for about 35% of the global population, gross domestic product and energy demand, according to the BP Energy Outlook 2030.

A strategic affairs specialist said the move will also ensure India maintained its relationship with China.

“This is in a way (about) India trying to keep equidistance between China and the US. It wants to maintain equidistance between the two,” said R.N. Das, a senior analyst with the Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses. “India already has an agreement with China in energy cooperation and this has worked in the case of Sudan.”

According to India’s oil ministry, the country’s energy demand is expected to more than double by 2035, from less than 700 million tonnes of oil equivalents today to around 1,500 million tonnes.

OVL is the only company among Indian state-owned firms with producing assets overseas. It has a presence in 15 countries through participation in 33 projects and has proven balance of oil and gas reserves of 202.908 million tonnes. But while its producing properties in Sudan have been affected by South Sudan’s decision to cap wells, the ones in Sakhalin and Syria are in decline.

Elizabeth Roche and Reuters contributed to this story.

Yusuf
25 Jun 12,, 16:04
I wrote this on my blog a few days back.

How China can upstage The US vis a vis India | Sarvatra Vijay (http://sarvatravijay.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/how-china-can-upstate-us-vis-a-vis-india/)

How China can upstage The US vis a vis*India

Over the last few days we have seen some hectic parlaying in Asia with Leon Panetta moving across the continent meeting with leaders of many important countries including India. He has called India the “lynchpin” of Asia. Foreign Minister SM Krishna traveled to China to attend the SCO summit where India is an observer. Reports say that the Chinese have been actively wooing India to join the SCO to thwart India joining any other security organization presumably led by the US. The US on the other side is trying to use India as a counter-weight against China. India it seems is in an enviable position of being pursued by the super power and the what is being touted as future super power.

India’s*relations with both US and China has been one of suspicion and mistrust. India was on the other side of the cold war divide and with China it fought a bitter war in 1962 the wounds of which are still fresh in India. China has over the years been aggressive in its claims which has made matters worse.

Though India and China have not shared the best of political relations, trade between the two countries has grown rapidly and heavily in favour of China. The Chinese have also realized that India will pursue its foreign policy independently of other countries which suits Indian interest. This has got the Chinese interested in pursuing India and wean it away from the US which is actively trying to block China in Asia particularly because it has acrimonious relations with it neighbours in the South China Sea.

China is now feeling the pressure that the US has exerted with its proactive policy especially with the latest announcement of stationing 60% of its naval force in the Pacific which is obviously intended at containing China. The US is actively pursuing India which sits on the strategic location of Indian Ocean through which much of China’s trade and energy passes.

China can upstate the US by changing its stance on India which means settling the border issue. China claims large parts of Arunachal Pradesh, hold Aksai Chin and also the Pakistan ceded Shaksgham Valley. If China gives up the claims to the region and signs a treaty with India, India will not have any reason to be anti China and join any anti China bloc that comes up in Asia. What it also does is opens up China to use India as a land route to reach the Arabian sea and thereby avoiding its ally Pakistan which is a much more dangerous route and also harbors the East Turkestan rebels of China.

China will also then benefit from an Indian acceptance of its*sovereignty*on Tibet from its current position of accepting Chinese*suzerainty on Tibet. It will also benefit from India helping China in its handling of the Uigher issue. This will also mean opening up of direct land routes to trade between Tibet and East Turkestan with India.

The Chinese can only be prevented from doing this by their own arrogance and not letting anyone in its backyard rival it. India is poised to grow militarily and*economically. China will do well to accept the fact and consider partnering with India to create a peaceful and prosperous Asia. *The opportunities will be immense. China stands to gain more from India than the other way round. India’s gain will be a peaceful border with China and its territorial integrity intact. Will China have the courage to settle the border row *and sign a treaty with India? Time will tell how Chinese planners think.

xinhui
25 Jun 12,, 16:58
all i see is finger pointing and some of the OpEd language used in your blog would not help in driving deep analysis.