PDA

View Full Version : Another Scientist is blown up...



Tanker
11 Jan 12,, 16:05
Iranian Nuclear Scientist Killed In Car Bomb Blast | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/01/11/report-bomb-kills-iran-university-professor/)



TEHRAN, Iran – Two assailants on a motorcycle attached magnetic bombs to the car of an Iranian university professor working at a key nuclear facility, killing him and another person Wednesday, state TV reported. The slayings suggest a widening covert effort to set back Iran's atomic program.

The attack in Tehran bore a strong resemblance to earlier killings of scientists working on the Iranian nuclear program. It is certain to amplify authorities' claims of clandestine operations by Western powers and their allies to halt Iran's nuclear advances.

The bomb killed Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan, a chemistry expert and a director of the Natanz uranium enrichment facility in central Iran, state TV reported. Natanz is Iran's main enrichment site, but officials claimed earlier this week that they are expanding some operations to an underground site south of Tehran with more advanced equipment.

The U.S. and its allies are pressuring Iran to halt uranium enrichment, a key element of the nuclear program that the West suspects is aimed at producing atomic weapons. Uranium enriched to low levels can be used as nuclear fuel but at higher levels, it can be used as material for a nuclear warhead.

Iran denies it is trying to make nuclear weapons, saying its program is for peaceful purposes only and is geared toward generating electricity and producing medical radioisotopes to treat cancer patients.

Iran has claimed that Israel's Mossad, the CIA and Britain's spy agency are engaged in an underground "terrorism" campaign against nuclear-related targets, including at least three slayings since early 2010 and the release of a malicious computer virus known at Stuxnet in 2010 that Iran says disrupted controls of some centrifuges -- a key component in nuclear fuel production. Both countries have denied the Iranian accusations.

Israeli officials have hinted about covert campaigns against Iran without directly admitting involvement.

On Tuesday, Israeli military chief Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz was quoted as telling a parliamentary panel that 2012 would be a "critical year" for Iran -- in part because of "things that happen to it unnaturally."

"Many bad things have been happening to Iran in the recent period," added Mickey Segal, a former director of the Israeli military's Iranian intelligence department. "Iran is in a situation where pressure on it is mounting, and the latest assassination joins the pressure that the Iranian regime is facing."

Safar Ali Baratloo, a senior security official, was quoted by Fars as saying the attack was the work of Israelis.

"The magnetic bomb is of the same types already used to assassinate our scientists," he said.

Roshan, 32, was inside the Iranian-assembled Peugeot 405 car together with two others when the bomb exploded near Gol Nabi Street in north Tehran, Fars reported. It said the person accompanying Roshan died later of injuries at a hospital.

The state news agency IRNA said an 85-year old passer-by was injured in the blast.

Fars described the explosion as a "terrorist attack" targeting Roshan, a graduate of the prestigious Sharif University of Technology in Tehran.

Roshan was a chemistry expert who was involved in building polymeric layers for gas separation, which is the use of various membranes to isolate gases. He was also deputy director of Natanz uranium enrichment plant, in central Iran, for commercial affairs. According to conservative news website mashreghnews.ir, Roshan was in charge of purchasing and supplying equipment for the facility.

Natanz is the centerpiece of Iran's efforts to make its own nuclear fuel. But Iran said earlier this week it was expanding some operations to a bunker-like site south of Tehran protected under 300 feet of rock. The existence of the Fordo facility has been known for more than two years, but some Western officials fear the opening of the labs could be another step toward developing nuclear arms.

Iran also had held or announced a series of war games since December that included threats to close the Gulf's vital Strait of Hormuz -- the passageway for about one-sixth of the world's oil -- in retaliation for stronger U.S.-led sanctions.

"Assassinations, military threats and political pressures ... The enemy insists on the tactic of creating fear to stop Iran's peaceful nuclear activities," Fars quoted lawmaker Javad Jahangirzadeh as saying in reaction to the blast.

A similar bomb explosion exactly two years ago -- Jan. 12, 2010 -- killed Tehran University professor Masoud Ali Mohammadi, a senior physics professor. He was killed when a bomb-rigged motorcycle exploded near his car as he was about to leave for work.

The semiofficial Mehr news agency said that Roshan had planned to attend a memorial ceremony later Wednesday for the slain professor.

In November 2010, a pair of back-to-back bomb attacks in different parts of the capital killed another nuclear scientist and wounded one more.

The slain scientist, Majid Shahriari, was a member of the nuclear engineering faculty at Shahid Beheshti University in Tehran and cooperated with the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran. The wounded scientist, Fereidoun Abbasi, was almost immediately appointed head of Iran's atomic agency.

And in July 2011, motorcycle-riding gunmen killed Darioush Rezaeinejad, an electronics student. Other reports identified him as a scientist involved in suspected Iranian attempts to make nuclear weapons.

Rezaeinejad allegedly participated in developing high-voltage switches, a key component in setting off the explosions needed to trigger a nuclear warhead.

The United States and some allies say Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons technology. Iran denies the allegations, saying that its program is intended for energy and medical research.

The latest blast is certain to bring fresh charges by Iran that the U.S. and allies are waging a clandestine campaign of bloodshed and sabotage in attempts to set back Iran's nuclear efforts.

"Instead of actually fighting a conventional war, Western powers and their allies appear to be relying on covert war tactics to try to delay and degrade Iran's nuclear advancement," said Theodore Karasik, a security expert at the Dubai-based Institute for Near East and Gulf Military Analysis.

He said the use of magnetic bombs bears the hallmarks of covert operations.

"It's a very common way to eliminate someone," he added. "It's clean, easy and efficient."

Meir Javedanfar, an Iranian-born analyst based in Israel, said Iran's leadership is being pushed toward a decision on whether to "retaliate or compromise" as sanctions squeeze the economy and undercut the value of the Iranian rial.

"From the international consensus that we can see against Iran, even if (Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei) does retaliate, it's not very likely that the pressure -- sanctions and isolation -- would ease," he said. "He's in a tight spot."

-----------------
I am finding this very coincidental that everytime the US and Iran spar over their nuclear program a university professor is blown up and then it is stated in Iranian press that the guy was the oobergoober in charge of the whole nuclear power shabang.

bigross86
11 Jan 12,, 16:26
I confess, it was me. I got on my motorbike here in Tel Aviv, drove all the way to Tehran, planted the bombs, got on my motorbike and drove all the way back without missing even one class.

Mihais
11 Jan 12,, 16:32
You wonder why people hate you :biggrin::biggrin:

Seriously,are these guys nuts,or just slow learners?You have the guys presumably working on nukes.In the ole Germany or USSR,such brains were highly protected.You don't live in downtown,you live in a protected facility(with your family,if they're generous).There's a ton of security and you don't have to drive anywhere.You're driven where you need to go,with an escort.

1979
11 Jan 12,, 16:43
Seriously,are these guys nuts,or just slow learners?You have the guys presumably working on nukes.In the ole Germany or USSR,such brains were highly protected.You don't live in downtown,you live in a protected facility(with your family,if they're generous).There's a ton of security and you don't have to drive anywhere.You're driven where you need to go,with an escort.

so, the Iranians wanted it dead more than alive ?

Tanker
11 Jan 12,, 17:17
The Iranians are doing more to kill their own programs than they are to keep them alive. You would figure that after the last two were blown to hell they would have done something to protect them. The other thing that is interesting is that it is younger progressive scientists that are being executed. This leads me to believe that they went to their bosses and said something like, "hey we need to conform to what the west is recommending" and got them selves kilt.

Dreadnought
11 Jan 12,, 17:39
Iran has claimed that Israel's Mossad, the CIA and Britain's spy agency are engaged in an underground "terrorism" campaign against nuclear-related targets, including at least three slayings since early 2010 and the release of a malicious computer virus known at Stuxnet in 2010 that Iran says disrupted controls of some centrifuges -- a key component in nuclear fuel production. Both countries have denied the Iranian accusations.

Dont see how that can be, remember they did claim they have arrested all the spies from the West. Including those that arent even spies just hold dual citizenship and happen to live in the West to escape their bullshit rule.

For all they know it could be one of their very own who know exactly what their program is intended for if it hasnt already been made clear enough. 20% enriched in military grade.

Stitch
11 Jan 12,, 17:39
You wonder why people hate you :biggrin::biggrin:

Seriously,are these guys nuts,or just slow learners?You have the guys presumably working on nukes.In the ole Germany or USSR,such brains were highly protected.You don't live in downtown,you live in a protected facility(with your family,if they're generous).There's a ton of security and you don't have to drive anywhere.You're driven where you need to go,with an escort.

Just like the reverse-engineering scientists out at Area 51, right? Tankie knows all about them . . . .

Tanker
11 Jan 12,, 17:49
Iran has claimed that Israel's Mossad, the CIA and Britain's spy agency are engaged in an underground "terrorism" campaign against nuclear-related targets, including at least three slayings since early 2010 and the release of a malicious computer virus known at Stuxnet in 2010 that Iran says disrupted controls of some centrifuges -- a key component in nuclear fuel production. Both countries have denied the Iranian accusations.

Dont see how that can be, remember they did claim they have arrested all the spies from the West. Including those that arent even spies just hold dual citizenship.

For all they know it could be one of their very own.

It is my belief that Iran is creating its own False Flag situations to get the world opinion turned in their favor.

Traxus
11 Jan 12,, 18:23
It is my belief that Iran is creating its own False Flag situations to get the world opinion turned in their favor.

If this were the goal it would be a lot more productive to blow up something that kills a bunch of innocent people, which is not unheard of in Iran.

Iran actually wants their nuclear program to succeed, so killing their own scientists for propaganda purposes seems rather questionable, especially when Mossad would be more than happy to carry out an operation like this.

mustavaris
11 Jan 12,, 18:24
They do have need for small amount of 20 % fuel as their research reactor is running/has run out of fuel. Initially that US built reactor used uranium of much higher purity but it was modified by Argentina (?) to accept 20 % fuel. Some years ago IAEA estimated that by 2010-2011 it would be spent.. and then the Iranians won´t have production of medically essential isotypes.

Doktor
11 Jan 12,, 18:29
What is the life expactancy of nuclear engineer in Iran these days?

Tanker
11 Jan 12,, 19:01
If this were the goal it would be a lot more productive to blow up something that kills a bunch of innocent people, which is not unheard of in Iran.

OK...and how would that prove that the West is trying to destroy Iran's nuclear ambition? It doesn't. Killing people associated with the program does that.


Iran actually wants their nuclear program to succeed, so killing their own scientists for propaganda purposes seems rather questionable, especially when Mossad would be more than happy to carry out an operation like this.

Questionable? Not really. Look back in history and you will find a ton of leaders that killed their own people and blamed it on someone else. Iran has a habit of blaming everybody but themselves for things that happen within their country.

So with that being said, is it possible that the forces in Iran that want a nuclear free Iran are involved in the "whacking" of nuclear scientists? How many American scientists were knocked off from the 40's to the 70's? How many British? How many French...Germans...Canadians...and so on? Russians? Chinese? To be honest, I can't remember but I think Iran is the only country that seems to have this issue. If we want the program ended why not just give Israel the airspace...look what they did in Iraq.

Tanker
11 Jan 12,, 19:02
What is the life expactancy of nuclear engineer in Iran these days?

well...it seems to be only when there is a serious issue with US/Iran relations...The last time it happened there was a lot of war talk going on just like now.

USSWisconsin
11 Jan 12,, 19:07
What is the life expactancy of nuclear engineer in Iran these days?

I would say nil - it doesn't seem like a very good way to make a living, as The Outlaw Josie Wales once told the bounty hunter - "dyin ain't no way to make a livin, boy"

If they need medical isotopes, they could buy them for much less than the cost of building a nuclear program - especially while they are under attack from most of the world for doing it.
The quantities needed for that are tiny, a years supply for Iran wouldn't make one good dirty bomb.

Chogy
11 Jan 12,, 19:08
I think Occam's razor may apply here. It may very well be shady alphabet agencies trying to put a crimp in Iran's nuclear program. Stuxnet was another example.

I don't think it is impossible that it is an Iranian scheme to garner sympathy and/or gather her people into a unified mindset - "THEY are after us; they want to stop us" - but I'm not thinking it's the most likely explanation.

Remember the Manhattan project had thousands of people working on it. There were a few dozen extremely important brains, and also hundreds of worker bees who could all be called "scientists." Tanker, if your theory is true, this may well be a low-level fellow who is incompetent, displeased his superiors, or both.

USSWisconsin
11 Jan 12,, 19:13
If we want the program ended why not just give Israel the airspace...look what they did in Iraq.

I doubt that its ours to give them, and if they want to use it, I doubt Iran can stop them, and really doubt that we would do anything about it...

Tanker
11 Jan 12,, 19:13
I think Occam's razor may apply here. It may very well be shady alphabet agencies trying to put a crimp in Iran's nuclear program. Stuxnet was another example.

I don't think it is impossible that it is an Iranian scheme to garner sympathy and/or gather her people into a unified mindset - "THEY are after us; they want to stop us" - but I'm not thinking it's the most likely explanation.

Remember the Manhattan project had thousands of people working on it. There were a few dozen extremely important brains, and also hundreds of worker bees who could all be called "scientists." Tanker, if your theory is true, this may well be a low-level fellow who is incompetent, displeased his superiors, or both.

Well, it could be. One of the devices they used last time didn't go off and it looked professional. Cone shaped. These were well organized people who knew how to get in and out of traffic which is interesting because this thing goes off and not one cop in the area.

Tanker
11 Jan 12,, 19:15
I doubt that its ours to give them, and if they want to use it, I doubt Iran can stop them, and really doubt that we would do anything about it...

I was speaking relative to the our controlling the airspace over Iraq. When this got underway we could have allowed Israel to violate the airspace...looking the other way...kind of like what I believe is happening in Iran.

Walking Dead
11 Jan 12,, 19:21
I won't shed a tear.

USSWisconsin
11 Jan 12,, 19:44
I was speaking relative to the our controlling the airspace over Iraq. When this got underway we could have allowed Israel to violate the airspace...looking the other way...kind of like what I believe is happening in Iran.

I think we are both saying pretty much the same thing in different ways :biggrin:

Dreadnought
11 Jan 12,, 20:07
It is my belief that Iran is creating its own False Flag situations to get the world opinion turned in their favor.

Could be, Lets not forget though Iran is one of the premier suppliers of IED's that have been found in both Iraq and Afghanistan so the knowledge is there to build a magnetic bomb no doubt.

English Articles (http://www.newsabah.com/ar/2170/26/66386/ied.htm?tpl=52)

Aryajet
11 Jan 12,, 20:09
I don't think it is impossible that it is an Iranian scheme to garner sympathy and/or gather her people into a unified mindset - "THEY are after us; they want to stop us" - but I'm not thinking it's the most likely explanation.


There is a parliamentarian elections coming up March 5th and the buzz in the society is "Boycott the election". OTOH IRI adores crowd showing up in and around the poles en masse.

Dreadnought
11 Jan 12,, 20:26
There is a parliamentarian elections coming up March 5th and the buzz in the society is "Boycott the election". OTOH IRI adores crowd showing up in and around the poles en masse.

Now that would be funny, Make the streets a ghost town and just have them all leave signs in the streets saying:

"It dont matter what we say or do you will put these rascist idiots in office one way or another".


P.S. We are not morons, enjoy the bogus elections and we have zero faith in the regime or the Assahola.

Aryajet
11 Jan 12,, 20:48
I was speaking relative to the our controlling the airspace over Iraq. When this got underway we could have allowed Israel to violate the airspace...looking the other way...kind of like what I believe is happening in Iran.
Dave,
Newly established and elected Muslim Arab Iraqi Gov. was/is in IRI sphere of influence and would never give clearance to IDF to over fly their aerospace and if U.S wanted to by pass that major obstacle then had no choice but dissolve a Gov. which had sacrificed 1000's of American lives on top of spending over $ trillion to establish.

In case of IDF the passage over Iraq and KSA northern borders would make the best route.

Aryajet
11 Jan 12,, 21:01
P.S. We are not morons, enjoy the bogus elections and we have zero faith in the regime or the Assahola.

Majority of Iranians call those shows "Selections".
Guardian Council is already at work vetting candidates. Yesterday they disqualified a candidate who already is a parliamentarian and prominent hardliner just because in an interview conducted year & half ago he had mentioned that "We should have a dialog with the opposition and consider listening to protestors demand".

omon
11 Jan 12,, 22:25
i'm surprised no one came up with, "mexican drug lords" theory yet.

Tanker
12 Jan 12,, 04:24
i'm surprised no one came up with, "mexican drug lords" theory yet.

We did...it wasn't far fetched enough :biggrin:

mustavaris
12 Jan 12,, 20:18
Out of curiousity, do you have a source for this? Persian source works just fine.


Majority of Iranians call those shows "Selections".
Guardian Council is already at work vetting candidates. Yesterday they disqualified a candidate who already is a parliamentarian and prominent hardliner just because in an interview conducted year & half ago he had mentioned that "We should have a dialog with the opposition and consider listening to protestors demand".

mustavaris
12 Jan 12,, 20:20
The reactor they have ran on one supply for well over 20 years.. despite of that, they have the right to produce that uranium. The problems are related to the lack of international surveillance of their operations.



The quantities needed for that are tiny, a years supply for Iran wouldn't make one good dirty bomb.

Dreadnought
12 Jan 12,, 20:51
The reactor they have ran on one supply for well over 20 years.. despite of that, they have the right to produce that uranium. The problems are related to the lack of international surveillance of their operations.

No, the problem is Iran stated it was for medical isotopes and power generation. What they are claiming to produce at 20% enrichment is weapons grade not medical grade which would not require no where near that amount of enrichment.

That is the problem and their vlagrant violation of the NPT.

Dreadnought
12 Jan 12,, 20:55
VIENNA (AP) - A senior U.N. nuclear agency team will visit Tehran on Jan. 28 with Iran saying it is ready to discuss allegations that it was involved in secret nuclear weapons work after years of refusing to do so, diplomats said Thursday.

Diplomats have previously said that International Atomic Energy Agency officials were discussing such a trip with their Iranian counterparts. But before the diplomats' comments Thursday, no date - or indication that Iran was ready to talk about the allegations - had been mentioned.

Any follow-through on the part of Iran on its reported pledge to discuss nuclear arms suspicions would be significant.

For more than three years, Tehran has blocked IAEA attempts to follow up on U.S. and other intelligence alleging covert Iranian work on nuclear arms, dismissing the charges as baseless and insisting all its nuclear activities were peaceful and under IAEA purview.


Faced with Iranian stonewalling, the IAEA summarized its body of information in November, in a 13-page document drawing on 1,000 pages of intelligence. It stated then for the first time that some of the alleged experiments can have no other purpose than developing nuclear weapons.

Iran continues to deny the charges and no change in its position is expected during the Tehran talks with IAEA officials. But even a decision to enter a discussion over the allegations would be a major departure from outright refusal to talk about them - and create hopes of future progress in the investigation.

Two diplomats told The Associated Press that Iranian officials had suggested they were ready to talk about the issue during recent meetings with officials of the Vienna-based IAEA. They asked for anonymity because their information was confidential.

Ali Asghar Soltanieh, Iran's chief IAEA delegate, declined to be drawn on what would be discussed in Tehran, indicating in comments to The AP that it was too early to go public with details.

The composition of the IAEA team, as described by one of the diplomats, also reflects the significance the U.N. nuclear monitoring agency attaches to the visit, which is expected to conclude in the first few days of February.

Normally such trips are made by Deputy Director General Herman Nackaerts, in charge of the Iran nuclear file, and more junior officials of his department. But the diplomat said that this time Nackaerts will be accompanied by Assistant Director General Rafael Grossi, the right-hand to IAEA chief Yukiya Amano, and Peri Lynne Johnson, the agency's senior legal official.

Johnson is the only American among the three. While IAEA officials are formally neutral, her citizenship is of potential significance considering the high tension-level between Washington and Tehran.

Beyond the dispute over Iran's nuclear intentions, U.S.-Iranian relations have been further burdened by an Iranian announcement that a joint U.S.-Iranian national will be executed after being found guilty of spying - a charge both he and Washington denies.

Iran, in turn, sees possible U.S. complicity in a series of assassinations of its nuclear experts - the latest Wednesday, when scientist Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan was killed by a bomb attached to his car by a passing bicyclist.

In a letter to the U.N. secretary-general on Thursday, Iran's U.N. Ambassador Mohammad Khazaee called on the U.N. to condemn the killing and two earlier attacks that left two nuclear scientists dead and another seriously injured.

"There is firm evidence that certain foreign quarters are behind such assassinations. As has been claimed by these circles, such terrorist acts have been carried out as part of the efforts to disrupt Iran's peaceful nuclear program, under the false assumption that diplomacy alone would not be enough for that purpose," the letter read in part.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton denied any U.S. role in the slaying and the U.S administration condemned the attacks. Israeli officials, in contrast, have hinted at covert campaigns against Iran without directly admitting involvement.

Beyond urging Iranian cooperation with the IAEA probe of the alleged weapons work, the U.S. and its allies are pressuring Iran to halt uranium enrichment, a key element of the nuclear program that dozens of nations suspect is aimed at producing atomic weapons. Uranium enriched to low levels can be used as nuclear fuel, but at higher levels it can be used as material for a nuclear warhead.

Iran denies it is trying to make nuclear weapons, saying its program is for peaceful purposes only and is geared toward generating electricity.

Those claims were called into question on Monday when the IAEA confirmed Iran had begun enriching uranium to 20 percent. That's a significantly higher concentration than the nation's main stockpile - and can be turned into weapons grade material more quickly than the lower enriched uranium

iWon News - APNewsBreak: UN visit to Tehran set for Jan 28 (http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20120112/D9S7K1V03.html)

Dreadnought
12 Jan 12,, 21:00
LEU
Low-enriched uranium. Uranium enriched to an assay of less than 20 percent. LEU typically has a 3 to 5 percent assay when used as fuel for nuclear reactors.

HEU
Highly enriched uranium. Uranium enriched to an assay of 20 percent or more. For military application, this enrichment level may exceed 90 percent.

http://www.usec.com/glossary.htm

mustavaris
12 Jan 12,, 21:01
The 5MW research reactor in Teheran needs ~20 % purity. It used to run on 93% stuff..

ISIS NuclearIran › Nuclear Sites › Facilities › Tehran Research Reactor (TRR) (http://www.isisnucleariran.org/sites/facilities/tehran-research-reactor-trr/)


No, the problem is Iran stated it was for medical isotopes and power generation. What they are claiming to produce at 20% enrichment is weapons grade not medical grade which would not require no where near that amount of enrichment.

That is the problem and their vlagrant violation of the NPT.

Dreadnought
12 Jan 12,, 21:09
The 5MW research reactor in Teheran needs ~20 % purity. It used to run on 93% stuff..

ISIS NuclearIran › Nuclear Sites › Facilities › Tehran Research Reactor (TRR) (http://www.isisnucleariran.org/sites/facilities/tehran-research-reactor-trr/)

It still does not take away from the fact that medical isotopes require alot less as they stated themselves that was the purpose of their enrichment. Iran had deals to exchange its reactor fuel rods safely and openly with Russia. The ones that built their reactors and blew it off. It is the Iranians and their regime that caused this suspicion and it is the Iraninas that barred the IAEA from inspection views while they continued to build enrichment facilities.

They signed the Treaty and chose not to honor it. They caused this problem and their regimes rhetoric over wiping countries off the globe only led to the postion they are in now. That and thinking for a moment the could close the Straits and deny international traffic access without meeting a certain and swift reply from world naval forces. One which they WILL no doubt lose.

Yeah, they can be trusted.:rolleyes:

And for all we know that scientist might not even be dead but claimed to be to further support Iran being attacked by "outside" nations.

snapper
12 Jan 12,, 22:02
It was ross.

bigross86
12 Jan 12,, 22:08
It was me, I admitted it! Why won't anyone take me seriously?! :mad::pari:

Doktor
12 Jan 12,, 22:22
It was me, I admitted it! Why won't anyone take me seriously?! :mad::pari:

Can't be you. You are too busy fighting Orthodox Jews.

bigross86
12 Jan 12,, 22:30
I'm good at multitasking?

Doktor
12 Jan 12,, 22:33
You should master at multiplying.

bigross86
12 Jan 12,, 22:48
I'm allergic to numbers...

zraver
12 Jan 12,, 23:46
What is the life expactancy of nuclear engineer in Iran these days?

Longer on Friday evening at home than on Monday morning on their way to work apparently.

Tanker
13 Jan 12,, 01:40
Dave,
Newly established and elected Muslim Arab Iraqi Gov. was/is in IRI sphere of influence and would never give clearance to IDF to over fly their aerospace and if U.S wanted to by pass that major obstacle then had no choice but dissolve a Gov. which had sacrificed 1000's of American lives on top of spending over $ trillion to establish.

In case of IDF the passage over Iraq and KSA northern borders would make the best route.

No, I understand. I was alluding to the time frame where we had control of the entire airspace over Iraq before the new goverment took over.

I think at the current time with the way Iran and the new Iraqi government have been getting along I think it would cause more harm then good all the way around.

I figured a sea approach. What say you brother!

USSWisconsin
13 Jan 12,, 02:38
Those little research reactors normally used HEU as built, they are quite simple as far as reactors go - downgrading to 20% would have made the core a lot bigger (the original 93% core was probably similar in size to a 40 gallon garbage can), and essentially would have been a whole new reactor. These were not power reactors, they were used mainly to produce isotopes or do neutron studies or neutron materials analysis. The power was normally disappated with heat exchangers operating like big radiators - just dumping the energy into the air as heat. I doubt there was any kind of electrical generator associated with the reactor. After operating for years, the spent uranium core would not have been weapons grade, but would be loaded with impurities which would make it useless for weapons. Normal power reactors use LEU, so making HEU does not fit with their story - the medical isotopes are not even uranium - they are fission products - any reactor can produce them. They either want to produce nuclear weapons or nuclear submarine reactors if they are making HEU. I would bet on the weapons plan.

Chogy
13 Jan 12,, 14:25
So to summarize for us non-nuclear scientists... ;)

4% U-235 is good for power plants
20% is used to make radioisotopes and for general research

Neither of the above can make a bomb

90% HEU and up can make a Little Boy bomb, yet the Iranian reactor cannot work with less than 90%? What's up with that? What kind of idiots would make a reactor that requires bomb-grade material?

USSWisconsin
13 Jan 12,, 14:58
So to summarize for us non-nuclear scientists... ;)

4% U-235 is good for power plants
20% is used to make radioisotopes and for general research

Neither of the above can make a bomb

90% HEU and up can make a Little Boy bomb, yet the Iranian reactor cannot work with less than 90%? What's up with that? What kind of idiots would make a reactor that requires bomb-grade material?

It seems that a very small installation was desired for universities - the HEU research reactor was the solution - one type was called TRIGA. We had one in Madison, the core was rectanglar and about the size of a 40 gallon garbage can - it was clearly visible at the bottom of the cooling pool and had blade type control plates that segregated it into 4 sections. At full power it had an unearthly blue Cherenkov radiation glow - that lit up the entire containment building. These reactors were built in the late 50's and 60's. Appearently proliferation was not a concern? I often wondered about this myself - it was scary to think of the possibilities.

TRIGA® Nuclear Reactors (http://www.ga-esi.com/triga/)
This picture shows what the glow looked like, but has different control mechanisms- the more common rod types (the black things protruding from the top, they can be gravity operated in the event of a power failure - provided the core isn't too hot and hasn't expanded to exclude them). These serve to absorb neutrons and supress the reactions.

This is the outside of the reactor - it is essentially a concrete silo filled with water, the core is at the bottom.
Nuclear Reactor Laboratory « UW-Madison Photo Library (http://photos.news.wisc.edu/photos/4551/view)

Tanker
13 Jan 12,, 15:28
So to summarize for us non-nuclear scientists... ;)

4% U-235 is good for power plants
20% is used to make radioisotopes and for general research

Neither of the above can make a bomb

90% HEU and up can make a Little Boy bomb, yet the Iranian reactor cannot work with less than 90%? What's up with that? What kind of idiots would make a reactor that requires bomb-grade material?

UHM...HELLOOOOOOOOO....MCFLIIIIIIIII!!!!!! The Iranians!!! DUUUUUUUUHH!!! :biggrin:

Tanker
13 Jan 12,, 15:35
Longer on Friday evening at home than on Monday morning on their way to work apparently.

Dammit...I was thinking that it had something to do with 5oz Swallows carrying 1lb coconuts...:biggrin:

mustavaris
13 Jan 12,, 15:55
US supplied Iran with that reactor that required 93 % fuel... Argentinians converted into one able to use ~20% fuel


So to summarize for us non-nuclear scientists... ;)

4% U-235 is good for power plants
20% is used to make radioisotopes and for general research

Neither of the above can make a bomb

90% HEU and up can make a Little Boy bomb, yet the Iranian reactor cannot work with less than 90%? What's up with that? What kind of idiots would make a reactor that requires bomb-grade material?

Chogy
13 Jan 12,, 16:43
This is news to me. Reactors that REQUIRE bomb-grade uranium are, dare we say it, really stupid and really dangerous on a number of levels. Maybe I'm naive, but what keeps one of these handy gadgets from going critical and melting down in seconds into glowing slag, or worse, blowing apart energetically? Tickling the dragon, anyone? This is like tickling Godzilla or the Romulan Empire.

Didn't anyone think of proliferation of a very dangerous (and also hard to obtain) material in those decades?

USSWisconsin
13 Jan 12,, 17:11
This is news to me. Reactors that REQUIRE bomb-grade uranium are, dare we say it, really stupid and really dangerous on a number of levels. Maybe I'm naive, but what keeps one of these handy gadgets from going critical and melting down in seconds into glowing slag, or worse, blowing apart energetically? Tickling the dragon, anyone? This is like tickling Godzilla or the Romulan Empire.

Didn't anyone think of proliferation of a very dangerous (and also hard to obtain) material in those decades?

They don't have about half a dozen things that a bomb needs to have. So they aren't very dangerous from a meltdown or explosion perspective, the geometry is very different and inherantly resistant to reactor accidents. You would really need to work at gettin one of these to meltdown. Think of a tiny heat treating furnace in a shop vs a big boiler at a power plant. The biggest concern from today's perspective is the proliferation threat of an unfriendly gov't who got one while it was friendly. Going in there and trying to "steal" the core wouldn't get you very far - you'd drop dead before you touch it. OTOH, a WTC type attack could be very ugly. However, with the relatively small amount of material - it would be less dangerous than a commercial reactor under the same conditons.

hanswu25
13 Jan 12,, 19:37
US, UK have officially condemned the killings. Now the UN.

Attacks on scientists to be condemned: U.N. chief | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/13/us-iran-scientist-un-idUSTRE80C1T420120113)

Aryajet
13 Jan 12,, 19:48
Out of curiousity, do you have a source for this? Persian source works just fine.

Sure, Musta.:)

Here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/10/iran-bans-mps-re-election/) is one for starter, and if you search "Ali Motahari" in youtube you can see his interview with IRIB.

Aryajet
13 Jan 12,, 20:01
UHM...HELLOOOOOOOOO....MCFLIIIIIIIII!!!!!! The Iranians!!! DUUUUUUUUHH!!! :biggrin:
Be careful Dave, Tehran nuclear reactor is made in the USA. ;)

Tanker
13 Jan 12,, 20:11
Be careful Dave, Tehran nuclear reactor is made in the USA. ;)

OOOOOPS :biggrin:

Doktor
13 Jan 12,, 20:12
Be careful Dave, Tehran nuclear reactor is made in the USA. ;)
Conclusion Made in USA = problems with USA few decades later

Talibans
Saddam
Iranian reactor
Pakistan

NK is safe only the ceremonial cars are made in USA there.

Tanker
13 Jan 12,, 20:22
Conclusion Made in USA = problems with USA few decades later

Talibans
Saddam
Iranian reactor
Pakistan

NK is safe only the ceremonial cars are made in USA there.

Last I heard, North Korea is in posession of a B24 Liberator they say is their tactical nuclear bomber...but the last time I heard that "Dear Leader" was alive :)

Doktor
13 Jan 12,, 20:33
Last I heard, North Korea is in posession of a B24 Liberator they say is their tactical nuclear bomber...but the last time I heard that "Dear Leader" was alive :)
Google knows nothing about it :biggrin:

Anyway wiki says damaged B-29 landedn in NK

Tanker
13 Jan 12,, 20:47
Google knows nothing about it :biggrin:

Anyway wiki says damaged B-29 landedn in NK

Google doesn't know a thing!! Useless clap trap...who was the author of the B29 edit?

mustavaris
13 Jan 12,, 20:48
Bale. Sepas gozaram! Kheyli khoob:)


Sure, Musta.:)

Here (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/10/iran-bans-mps-re-election/) is one for starter, and if you search "Ali Motahari" in youtube you can see his interview with IRIB.

Aryajet
13 Jan 12,, 21:25
I figured a sea approach. What say you brother!

I say I don't believe the fabricated enmity between Israel and IRI is significant enough to warrant a full blow war or even a limited air strike. Both nation have parallel national security concerns and that must be the reason why Israel acted as # 1 supporter of Iran during 8 years war.

As you know mullahs are the masters of deception, for so many years they have majority of the world believing that Israel is a target while the # 1 target in IRI horizon is KSA. They have a 1350 years old ax to grind. In their ideology Shias are the only heir to Mohammad's rule and legal guardians of Mecca and present group is nothing but an occupier.

The Arabian peninsula oil fields and being on the north side of strategic Strait of Bab ol Mandib are bonuses.

Doktor
13 Jan 12,, 22:19
Google doesn't know a thing!! Useless clap trap...who was the author of the B29 edit?
Wasn't me:biggrin:

Wiki links to here The Flight of the B-29 Hog Wild (WWII) by Bill Streifer and Irek Sabitov (http://www.my-jia.com/The_Flight_of_the_Hog_Wild/)

Dreadnought
13 Jan 12,, 23:20
And its assholes just like this that created the nuclear problem as well as all of Irans current troubles.

Tehran (CNN) -- Iran's top cleric has blamed the CIA and Mossad, Israel's intelligence agency, for killing an Iranian nuclear scientist, Iran's state broadcaster said.

Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan, who died Wednesday, was the third Iranian nuclear scientist in two years to be killed by what Iran described as a magnetic bomb attached to his car. A fourth survived a similar assassination attempt.

Roshan's death shows that "the global arrogance spearheaded by the U.S. and Zionism has reached a deadlock in confrontation with the determined, devout and progressive nation of Islamic Iran," Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was quoted as saying by the state-run Press TV.

Those responsible will not own up, Khamenei said, but the attack "has been carried out by the planning or support of CIA and Mossad [spy] services, like all other crimes of the network of international state terrorism."

Scientist death 'like script from movie'

Panetta denies U.S. involvement in death

Another Iranian nuclear scientist killed

Iran's military might in Iraq Khamenei ended his message of condolence with a warning: "We shall persist in punishing the perpetrators of this crime, as well those supporting them behind the scenes."

Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad sent his condolences Friday to the families of Roshan and his driver, who also died following the attack, the state-run IRNA news agency reported. He pointed the finger at "agents of imperialism and international Zionism," a reference to Israel.

Other Iranian officials also blamed the killings on Israel and the United States, both of which have accused Tehran of pursuing a nuclear bomb -- a claim it denies.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton "categorically" denied any role in the attacks, but urged Iran to halt its quest for a nuclear bomb.

"I'm not sure who was involved, we have some ideas as to who might be involved... but I can tell you one thing: the United States was not involved in that kind of effort, that's not what the United States does."

Brig. Gen. Yoav Mordechai, a spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces, said on his Facebook page Wednesday: "I have no idea who targeted the Iranian scientist but I certainly don't shed a tear."

United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon strongly condemned any terrorist action or assassination of anyone, "whether scientist or civilian."

"It is not acceptable," he said via his spokesman Eduardo del Buey. "Human rights must be protected."

Meanwhile, a newspaper aligned with Khamenei called Thursday for the Islamic republic to respond in kind to the killings of its nuclear scientists, suggesting Israeli officials could be targeted.

The editor of Tehran daily Kayhan, considered the organ of Khamenei's supporters, questioned why Iran should not "exercise its legal right to retaliate."

Mohammad Khazaee, Iran's ambassador to the United Nations, said the assassinations of scientists were intended to deprive Iranians of the right to peaceful nuclear energy.

"We believe that these terrorist attacks are supported by some elements -- especially within the Israeli regime as well as some quarters around the world," he said.

US denies involvement in Iranian's death Iran says its nuclear program is aimed at producing civilian energy, not weapons. But it has rebuffed international demands to halt its enrichment of uranium, and the International Atomic Energy Agency says it has credible evidence that Iran has conducted weapons-related research.

The IAEA, which serves as the U.N. nuclear watchdog, reported in November that it can no longer verify that the Iranian nuclear program remains peaceful.

The scientist's death comes as Western powers and Japan are tightening the screws on Tehran.

Japan announced Thursday it was prepared to gradually reduce oil imports from Iran, which supplies about 10% of its crude supply, while U.S.-led sanctions targeting Iran's central bank are driving down the value of the Iranian currency and driving up consumer prices.

At the same time, U.S. observers say a covert campaign of sabotage appears to be under way against Iran's nuclear program. In addition to the deaths of nuclear researchers, Iran's Natanz enrichment plant -- where Roshan was the deputy director for commercial affairs -- has been hit with a computer worm that Western analysts say has damaged about 10% of the centrifuges used in the enrichment process.

In the face of increased pressure, Iran has threatened to close off the Strait of Hormuz, the narrow waterway at the mouth of the oil-rich Persian Gulf.

It brought down and captured a U.S. surveillance drone over its territory and claims to have arrested a dozen American spies, including an Iranian-American former Marine who was sentenced to death this week. The United States says he was wrongly accused.

Still printing the brought it down theory I see.

Stitch
14 Jan 12,, 04:22
Dammit...I was thinking that it had something to do with 5oz Swallows carrying 1lb coconuts...:biggrin:

Perhaps TWO swallows could carry the coconut? Of course, they are non-migratory . . . .

snapper
14 Jan 12,, 12:07
Typical that they arrest a guy visiting his grandmother.

tankie
14 Jan 12,, 19:29
Just like the reverse-engineering scientists out at Area 51, right? Tankie knows all about them . . . .

:biggrin: Only what i have read , Bob Lazzar one of them whose id went off the map , when he spoke out . ;)

Tanker
14 Jan 12,, 20:36
Perhaps TWO swallows could carry the coconut? Of course, they are non-migratory . . . .

Wait.....what?...........I didn't know thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeee!

Tanker
14 Jan 12,, 20:38
Typical that they arrest a guy visiting his grandmother.

Because when he entered the country they interrogated him and asked him where he would be and they went right to his Gran's house and took him into custody.

Tanker
14 Jan 12,, 20:50
:biggrin: Only what i have read , Bob Lazzar one of them whose id went off the map , when he spoke out . ;)

Oh geezus don't start with Lazar...what fake, fraud, and liar he is and was. Two other UFO clownish freakshows were Tom Mahood and Kevin Randall. They had a huge website years ago in the mid 90's and I used to post on it. One day I posted a 15,000 word investigation about Roswell and several other "Roswell" type incidents. They same thing happened in all of them including the Mexican incident. The incident in question was the crashing of several unidentifyable rocket type craft that looked like missiles. The Roswell incident was the last in the series and Werner Von Braun moved to Huntsville (where I live) after the clean up was complete.

Dreadnought
15 Jan 12,, 15:31
Iran threatens Israel, U.S. over scientist killing

CNN) -- Israel and the United States are "supporters of state terrorism" and will suffer a "punitive response" at an "opportune time," Iran's Press TV cited a top Iranian general as saying Sunday, days after an Iranian nuclear scientist was killed.

Iran will hold "the U.S., Britain and the Zionist regime accountable for their actions," said the deputy chairman of Iran's Joint Chiefs of Staff, Brig. Gen. Massoud Jazayeri.

Jazayeri said the assassination would not hinder Iran's progress towards strategic technologies, the government-run Press TV reported Sunday, following an interview with him on Saturday.

Nuclear scientist Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan was killed Wednesday by what Iran described as a magnetic bomb attached to his car.



Scientist death 'like script from movie' He was the third Iranian nuclear scientist to be killed in the past two years. A fourth survived a similar assassination attempt.

U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton "categorically" denied any role in the attacks, but urged Iran to halt its quest for a nuclear bomb.

U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta Thursday told troops in Texas: "We were not involved in any way -- in any way -- with regards to the assassination that took place there.... that's not what the United States does."

Brig. Gen. Yoav Mordechai, a spokesman for the Israel Defense Forces, said on his Facebook page Wednesday: "I have no idea who targeted the Iranian scientist but I certainly don't shed a tear."

Iran's top cleric has blamed the CIA and Mossad, Israel's intelligence agency, for killing the scientist, Press TV said earlier.

Roshan's death shows that "the global arrogance spearheaded by the U.S. and Zionism has reached a deadlock in confrontation with the determined, devout and progressive nation of Islamic Iran," Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was quoted as saying by the state-run Press TV.

Those responsible will not own up, Khamenei said, but the attack "has been carried out by the planning or support of CIA and Mossad [spy] services, like all other crimes of the network of international state terrorism."

Khamenei ended his message of condolence with a warning: "We shall persist in punishing the perpetrators of this crime, as well those supporting them behind the scenes."

Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad sent his condolences Friday to the families of Roshan and his driver, who also died following the attack, the state-run IRNA news agency reported. He pointed the finger at "agents of imperialism and international Zionism," a reference to Israel.

Other Iranian officials also blamed the killings on Israel and the United States, both of which have accused Tehran of pursuing a nuclear bomb -- a claim it denies.

Meanwhile, a newspaper aligned with Khamenei called Thursday for the Islamic republic to respond in kind to the killings of its nuclear scientists, suggesting Israeli officials could be targeted.

The editor of Tehran daily Kayhan, considered the organ of Khamenei's supporters, questioned why Iran should not "exercise its legal right to retaliate."

Mohammad Khazaee, Iran's ambassador to the United Nations, said the assassinations of scientists were intended to deprive Iranians of the right to peaceful nuclear energy.

"We believe that these terrorist attacks are supported by some elements -- especially within the Israeli regime as well as some quarters around the world," he said.

Iran says its nuclear program is aimed at producing civilian energy, not weapons. But it has rebuffed international demands to halt its enrichment of uranium, and the International Atomic Energy Agency says it has credible evidence that Iran has conducted weapons-related research.

The IAEA, which serves as the U.N. nuclear watchdog, reported in November that it can no longer verify that the Iranian nuclear program remains peaceful.

Iran threatens Israel, U.S. over scientist killing - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/15/world/meast/iran-nuclear-scientist-killed/index.html?eref=rss_world&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_world+%28RSS%3A+Wor ld%29)

*So first it was the US, Then Israel, Now its the US, Israel and the Brits.

I would rell Tehran to go piss up a rope, if you want proof of terrorism those three listed above can show you more proof that Iran sponsors and funds terrorism then anyone. Hows about all of the Iranian made IEDS and Iranian rockets and mortars.

I guess that forget things like this:

Officials: Iran behind advanced, lethal IED

Top levels of Iranian government said to be authorizing export of weapon
By Steven R. Hurst - The Associated Press
Posted : Sunday Feb 11, 2007 9:06:43 EST

BAGHDAD — Military officials on Sunday accused the highest levels of the Iranian leadership of arming Shiite militants in Iraq with sophisticated armor-piercing roadside bombs that have killed more than 170 American forces.

The military command in Baghdad denied, however, that any newly smuggled Iranian weapons were behind the five U.S. military helicopter crashes since Jan. 20 — four that were shot out of the sky by insurgent gunfire.

A fifth crash has tentatively been blamed on mechanical failure. In the same period, two private security company helicopters also have crashed but the cause was unclear.

The deadly and highly sophisticated weapons the military said it traced to Iran are known as “explosively formed penetrators,” or EFPs.

The presentation was the result of weeks of preparation and revisions as U.S. officials put together a package of material to support the Bush administration’s claims of Iranian intercession on behalf of militant Iraqis fighting American forces.

Senior military officials in Baghdad said the display was prompted by the military’s concern for “force protection,” which, they said, was guaranteed under the United Nations resolution that authorizes American soldiers to be in Iraq.

Three senior military officials who explained the display said the “machining process” used in the construction of the deadly bombs had been traced to Iran.

The experts, who spoke to a large gathering of reporters on condition that they not be further identified, said the supply trail began with Iran’s Revolutionary Guards Quds Force, which also is accused of arming the Hezbollah guerrilla army in Lebanon. The officials said the EFP weapon was first tested there.

The officials said the Revolutionary Guard and its Quds force report directly to Iran’s supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.

The briefing on Iran was revised heavily after officials decided it was not ready for release as planned last month.

Senior officials in Washington — cautious after the drubbing the administration took for the faulty intelligence leading to the 2003 Iraq invasion — had held back because they were unhappy with the original presentation.

The display appeared to be part of the White House drive that has empowered U.S. forces in Iraq to use all means to curb Iranian influence in the country, including killing Iranian agents.

It included a power-point slide program and a handful of mortar shells and rocket-propelled grenades which the military officials said were made in Iran.

The centerpiece of the display, however, was a gray metal pipe about 10 inches long and 6 inches in diameter, the exterior casing of what the military said was an EFP, the roadside bomb that shoots out fist-sized wads of nearly molten copper that can penetrate the armor on an Abrams tank.

“A normal roadside bomb is like a shortgun blast. But these are like a rifle. They’re focused and they’re aimed. ... It’s going to take anything out in its way, go in one side and out the other,” said 1st Lt. Zane Galvach, 25, of Dayton, Ohio, a soldier with the Army’s 2nd Division, based in Baghdad.

Skeptical congressional Democrats said the Bush administration should move cautiously before accusing Iran of fomenting a campaign of violence against troops in Iraq.

Senate Intelligence Committee member Ron Wyden, D-Ore., said “the administration is engaged in a drumbeat with Iran that is much like the drumbeat that they did with Iraq. We’re going to insist on accountability.”

On the Republican side, Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi said he did not think the United States was trying to make a case for attacking Iran. Lott said the U.S. should try to stop the flow of munitions through Iran to Iraq but that “you do that by interdiction ... you don’t do it by invasion.”

The EFPs, as well as Iranian-made mortar shells and rocket-propelled grenades, have been supplied to what the military officials termed “rogue elements” of the Mahdi Army militia of anti-American Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. He is a key backer of Shiite Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki.

The U.S. officials glossed over armaments having reached the other major Shiite militia organization, the Badr Brigade. It is the military wing of Iraq’s most powerful Shiite political organization, the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, whose leaders also have close ties to the U.S.

Many key government figures and members of the Shiite political establishment have deep ties to Iran, having spent decades there in exile during Saddam Hussein’s rule. The Badr Brigade was formed and trained by Iran’s Revolutionary Guard.

An intelligence analyst in the group said Iran was working through “multiple surrogates” — mainly in the Mahdi Army — to smuggle the EFPs into Iraq. He said most of the components are entering the country at crossing points near Amarah, the Iranian border city of Meran and the Basra area of southern Iraq.

The analyst said Iraq’s Shiite-led government had been briefed on Iran’s involvement and Iraqi officials had asked the Iranians to stop. Al-Maliki has said he told both the U.S. and Iran that he does not want his country turned into a proxy battlefield.

“We know more than we can show,” said one of the senior officials, when pressed for tangible evidence that the EFPs were made in Iran.

U.S. officials have alleged for years that weapons were entering the country from Iran but had until Sunday stopped short of alleging involvement by top Iranian leaders.

During the briefing, a senior defense official said that one of the six Iranians detained in January in the northern city of Irbil was the operational commander of the Quds Force.

He was identified as Mohsin Chizari, who was apprehended after slipping back into Iraq after a 10-month absence, the officer said.

The Iranians were caught trying to flush documents down the toilet, he said. They had also tried to change their appearance by shaving their heads. Bags of their hair were found during the raid, he said.

The dates of manufacture on weapons found so far indicate they were made after fall of Saddam Hussein — mostly in 2006, the officials said.

In a separate briefing, Maj. Gen. Jim Simmons, deputy commander of Multinational Corps-Iraq, said that since December 2004, U.S. helicopter pilots have been shot at on average about 100 times a month and been hit on an average of 17 times in the same period.

He disclosed a previously unknown shootdown, a Blackhawk helicopter hit by small arms fire near the western city of Hit. The craft crash-landed but there were no casualties. Simmons was on board.

The major general said Iraqi militants are known to have SA-7, SA-14 and SA-16 shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles but none of the most recent five military crashes were caused by those weapons. He said some previous crashes had been a result of such missiles but would not elaborate.

North of Baghdad, a suicide truck bomber crashed into a police station, killing at least 30 policemen. A total of 76 people were killed or found dead across Iraq. The U.S. military said Sunday a soldier was shot and killed the day before in volatile Diyala province northeast of the capital. A second soldier was reported killed Sunday in western Baghdad.

Dreadnought
15 Jan 12,, 15:45
More.....

Adm. Mullen: Flow of arms from Iran to Iraqi militias widens - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-07-07-Iran-arms-Iraqi-militias_n.htm)

Iran Funneling New Weapons To Insurgents In Iraq And Afghansitan (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/02/iran-funneling-new-weapon_n_889204.html)

The Arkenstone - (http://thearkenstone.blogspot.com/2010/07/iraq-iranian-arms-interdicted.html)

snapper
15 Jan 12,, 15:47
I think this year.

tankie
15 Jan 12,, 21:58
Oh geezus don't start with Lazar...what fake, fraud, and liar he is and was. Two other UFO clownish freakshows were Tom Mahood and Kevin Randall. They had a huge website years ago in the mid 90's and I used to post on it. One day I posted a 15,000 word investigation about Roswell and several other "Roswell" type incidents. They same thing happened in all of them including the Mexican incident. The incident in question was the crashing of several unidentifyable rocket type craft that looked like missiles. The Roswell incident was the last in the series and Werner Von Braun moved to Huntsville (where I live) after the clean up was complete.

Really , show proof of lazar being a liar , dead easy ,,huh , shut up by the institution ,his id wasted , show his lies , you cant ,you read what they wanted people to read, you can only show damning lies from the institution who wants to discredit everyone with insight and knowledge ,,believe what is fed to you ,but prove he is a liar , show proof of weather balloons were irrefutable evidence , c,mon show it and i will show you contradictory evidence including jesse marcell , us mjr and lots of civilian testimony , to include the closing down of local radio stations ,, your move

S2
15 Jan 12,, 23:16
It'd be best if either of you might perhaps start another thread dealing with this instead of derailing this one.

Aryajet
15 Jan 12,, 23:52
I posted this in another Iranian discussion board and I would like to share it and see what are your thoughts.



I respectfully disagree.

I really abhor jumping on conspiracy band wagon but in this specific case I’m more leaned toward looking inward than out to the west of Iran.

I’ve been thinking and reading about this tragedy ever since this past Wednesday and circumstances and aftermath behaviors of IRI points to itself.

1-As you mentioned marhoom Ahmadi Roushan was not a scientist and if Mosad wanted to put a dent in Iranian nuclear R & D surely could target a person with substantial rule than an expandable figure. Or even a big group of relevant people when they were in a conference room or during traveling for example in an airplane.

2-Within span of 2 years there have been 4 assassination attempts and all almost identical method, time of the day and all in Tehran. This is absolutely unheard of from an intelligence agency like Mosad or CIA to do so. The method always changes because it is possible for the previous style to be investigated and discovered thus compromising the success and safety of the operatives of the next mission.

3-Although Iranian nuclear standoff started in 2003, all of these assassinations were carried out aftermath of June 2009 uprisings.

4- Surely there are scientists in Busher , Esfahan, Arak, Qum etc but all 4 events have happened in Tehran. I’m guessing bigger Media “BOOM”.

5- Victim card, international sympathy, domestic deception, diversion of attention, fabricating illusive enemy (khamanei will not make a single sentence without the word "Doshman" in it, it has to be real) with all the above it seems like no one benefits more than IRI from these killings. He has killed Iranians by 1000s for regime survival before.

6- I have not heard of any investigation team being assigned for the past 3 cases and certainly you would expect majles should at least scrutinize Moslhi if not impeach him.

7- Looking at the youtube video you would expect for police or VEVAK agents setting up a parameter and treating the spot as crime scene but instead and surprisingly you see 100s of ordinary people walking around and picking up scattered pieces which might be used as evidence during upcoming investigations. Bombs even the homemade ones have certain fingerprints which can be traced back to its origin. Trigger mechanism, explosive, carrying cases, wires and other hardware can be investigated, scrutinized in order to figure out where the components were purchased or even were it was assembled which all can shed light toward perpetrators.

8- You would expect huge number of investigators working around the clock, sifting through pieces, looking at scene with 10 power magnifying glasses and taking pix which might take days, but instead very shortly after the car being hauled away another team appears on the scene and start sweeping up and hosing off the crime scene. That on its own is big red light for me.


Moslehi = Head of Ministry of Information. the one Dronejacker fired and khamenei reinstated him last summer.

Doshman = Enemy

Majles = parliament

tankie
16 Jan 12,, 12:55
It'd be best if either of you might perhaps start another thread dealing with this instead of derailing this one.

Yes your correct , goodbye.

Tanker
16 Jan 12,, 15:36
It'd be best if either of you might perhaps start another thread dealing with this instead of derailing this one.

Apologies :)

Haaaaaaaaay....I started this thread..... :biggrin:

Dreadnought
16 Jan 12,, 16:43
I posted this in another Iranian discussion board and I would like to share it and see what are your thoughts.



Moslehi = Head of Ministry of Information. the one Dronejacker fired and khamenei reinstated him last summer.

Doshman = Enemy

Majles = parliament



*Ironic huh?.........

Iran makes arrests in killing of nuclear scientist
Updated 1h 40m ago Comments 17
TEHRAN, Iran (AP) – An Iranian news website is reporting several suspects have been arrested over last week's killing of an Iranian nuclear scientist.

By Mojtaba Heidari, Mehr News Agency, via AP

Ali Larijani, speaker of the Iranian parliament, said the suspects are being interrogated, and the investigation is continuing. He talked to Iran's state Arabic language TV channel Al-Alam, and his comments were carried on the Tabnak.ir site.

Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan, an official in Iran's nuclear enrichment facility in Natanz, was killed in an explosion Wednesday after attackers attached a bomb to his car in Tehran.

STORY: Iran says CIA behind nuclear scientist's death
STORY: Iran asks U.N. to condemn scientist killing
Iran accused the U.S., Britain and Israel of involvement.

Washington denied any role in the assassination, and London condemned the killing of civilians. Israel has not commented publicly.

The West believes Iran is building nuclear weapons. Iran denies that.

Iran makes arrests in killing of nuclear scientist (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-01-16/iran-killing-arrests/52592310/1?csp=34news&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+UsatodaycomWorld-TopStories+%28News+-+World+-+Top+Stories%29)

snapper
16 Jan 12,, 17:13
STORY: Iran says CIA behind nuclear scientist's death
STORY: Iran asks U.N. to condemn scientist killing
Iran accused the U.S., Britain and Israel of involvement.

At the risk of stating the bleedin obvious none of the above countries has an Embassy in Tehran. It is always going to be difficult to ship in a CIA/Mossad/MI6 James Bond type... They'd stick out a mile; "Could I have a drop of milk with my tea?". Seems pretty obvious that the only people who realisticly have a chance of doing such things are other Iranians, no matter who their ultimate bosses are.

Tanker
16 Jan 12,, 17:46
STORY: Iran says CIA behind nuclear scientist's death
STORY: Iran asks U.N. to condemn scientist killing
Iran accused the U.S., Britain and Israel of involvement.

At the risk of stating the bleedin obvious none of the above countries has an Embassy in Tehran. It is always going to be difficult to ship in a CIA/Mossad/MI6 James Bond type... They'd stick out a mile; "Could I have a drop of milk with my tea?". Seems pretty obvious that the only people who realisticly have a chance of doing such things are other Iranians, no matter who their ultimate bosses are.

This is why the young former marine was picked as a CIA agent. Watch the news carefully. over the next several weeks Iran will find a way to point the finger at this kid for being the mastermind behind the killing of the Professor. Remember, the Scientist that was killed was on his way to work...at a college not a nuclear reactor.

USSWisconsin
16 Jan 12,, 17:59
This is why the young former marine was picked as a CIA agent. Watch the news carefully. over the next several weeks Iran will find a way to point the finger at this kid for being the mastermind behind the killing of the Professor. Remember, the Scientist that was killed was on his way to work...at a college not a nuclear reactor.

I thought Ben killed him :biggrin: :tank: Didn't he confess right here? He did it while he was online talking to us too - he has superhuman powers - and used his parallel universe alterego I suspect. Don't mess with Ben... :wors:

bigross86
16 Jan 12,, 18:01
I've said repeatedly that it was me, but no one wants to believe me. What's a poor international assassin/spy supposed to do?

Tanker
16 Jan 12,, 18:13
I've said repeatedly that it was me, but no one wants to believe me. What's a poor international assassin/spy supposed to do?

Yes...we know...and I am a CIA agent. Sssssssh....now take this and rest...there you go....relax...put your feet up......ssssssh

Officer of Engineers
16 Jan 12,, 18:27
I've said repeatedly that it was me, but no one wants to believe me. What's a poor international assassin/spy supposed to do?Bend over.

Tanker
16 Jan 12,, 18:38
Bend over.

sssssssssh...he is sleeping you will have to bend him yourself :biggrin:

Officer of Engineers
16 Jan 12,, 18:39
sssssssssh...he is sleeping you will have to bend him yourself :biggrin:Hey, YELLAR! Got a job for you.

YellowFever
16 Jan 12,, 19:46
What, is this where old people come to relive their sexual fantasies?

bigross86
16 Jan 12,, 20:55
I don't know if I should be flattered or slightly concerned for myself...

YellowFever
16 Jan 12,, 21:09
I don't know if I should be flattered or slightly concerned for myself...

You should be immensely concerned for yourself.

The Colonel usually gets what he wants around here and Tanker is still a newbie and an unknown.

Remember when he wanted to put me in a dress and make believe I was his wife? :insane:

RoccoR
16 Jan 12,, 22:36
et al,

We all talk as if the motive for the bombing was to retard the Iranian Nuclear Weapons Program.

But it is very unclear, if Iran is actually engaged in such a program. I am given to understand that "we" (the US) don't actually have any information that pins this down. (Rhetoric aside!)

Why conduct such an extensive operations on a "maybe."



In late 2009, the IC began to update the 2007 NIE on Iran, with the final version reportedly completed in February 2011. Briefing Congress on the NIE behind closed doors, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper testified, “We continue to assess Iran is keeping open the option to develop nuclear weapons.” But, “We do not know…if Iran will eventually decide to build nuclear weapons.”
REFERENCES:

http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/20071203_release.pdf
Exclusive: New National Intelligence Estimate on Iran complete | The Cable (http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/02/15/exclusive_new_national_intelligence_estimate_on_ir an_complete)

SOURCE:

Iran (http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/10/irans-nuclear-program-what-intelligence-would-suffice/)



I am haunted by what happen the last time we (America) proclaimed to the world that someone have WMD (thousands and thousands of tons). It wasn't a little mistake --- it was huge.



A great deal has been accomplished by the team, and I do think ... it important that it goes on and it is allowed to reach its full conclusion. In fact, I really believe it ought to be better resourced and totally focused on WMD; that that is important to do it.

But I also believe that it is time to begin the fundamental analysis of how we got here, what led us here and what we need to do in order to ensure that we are equipped with the best possible intelligence as we face these issues in the future.

Let me begin by saying, we were almost all wrong, and I certainly include myself here.
SOURCE: CNN.com - Transcript: David Kay at Senate hearing - Jan. 28, 2004 (http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/01/28/kay.transcript/)


We certainly don't want to repeat this mistake. I'm sure the last time we cried "Wolf" has not faded from everyone's memory.

I'm not sure of what the Israelis know - but I venture to say, it is not much more than we know. And thus, why would either nation conduct such an operation. (ANSWER): They wouldn't. It is more likely that some other player is trying to open a conflict.

Most Respectfully,
R

Dreadnought
17 Jan 12,, 02:03
I would readily agree with this since the majority of the scientists have been the lower level ones. So if indeed the US,UK or the Israeli's were to target the scientists IMO they would go after the most important ones not the lower escilon.

However as many stories will point out the nuclear program is ground zero for the regime. Without it, they will loose favor with many of the faithful.

What Iran fails to mention in their wild accusations is the fact that the MEK (Mujahedin-e-Khalq) dwells among them in Iran itself as well as a few other factions opposed to the regime. The MEK seeks regime change in Iran. Further, they also sit on the US list of terrorist organizations as well as being disavowed from Israeli and UK support.
This is something else they fail in their proaghanda to the "faithful" to point out is that it is not the West that is doing this. It is their home grown elements that want the regime out.

Iran can point its finger and threaten all that it wants but apparently these troubles they are having is home grown and they just refuse to recognize that element exists among the "faithful" while rallying the "faithfull" to curse the West.

Its actually pretty hard to believe that they believe their people are this stupid.

An interesting theory, take it at face value:
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-11/middleeast/world_meast_iran-who-kills-scientists_1_iranian-nuclear-scientists-iranian-regime-natanz?_s=PM:MIDDLEEAST

Officer of Engineers
17 Jan 12,, 06:01
But it is very unclear, if Iran is actually engaged in such a program. I am given to understand that "we" (the US) don't actually have any information that pins this down. (Rhetoric aside!)In actuality, we have definiete proof that Iran HAD engaged in nuclear weapons research upto and including the purchase of both a Chinese nuclear warhead blueprint and a Pakistani warhead blueprint ... all evidence from Pakistan herself.

Wether Iran is still continuing her research is the open question both Qom did not add to Iran's claims of innocense.

RoccoR
17 Jan 12,, 12:58
Officer of Engineers, et al,

Yes, this is true. But what this says means something different.



In actuality, we have definiete proof that Iran HAD engaged in nuclear weapons research upto and including the purchase of both a Chinese nuclear warhead blueprint and a Pakistani warhead blueprint ... all evidence from Pakistan herself.

Wether Iran is still continuing her research is the open question both Qom did not add to Iran's claims of innocense.
(COMMENT)

Several points have to be made.


First, relative to the Chinese purchase (attempt), the time frame is all wrong. This transaction was made in the mid-1980's and is covered in the 2011 NIE (supra). However, it does appear that several Chinese firms were, at one time, assisting Iran in missile technology. To what end, is still unknown. But a weapons system is so complex, that just about any research and development in that areas could be said to be applicable.

Second, the warhead transactions of the near recent past were NOT "weaponized." This is still yet to be accomplish by the Iranians, and we don't know if the Iranians have yet, that ability or material. There are several unconfirmed rumors that the original target date for weaponization could be March 2012. But the normal testing of critical nuclear weapons design has not been detected.

The sale of the KH-55 (Ukrainian sources) is troubling, but not as significant as a first impression might have. They are older (20 years old+), having a limited range (--- maybe 2000-3000 miles max), of a cruise missile design. The records on maintenance is dubious at best and no one is sure if they are still functional and no tests have been observed. These were transferred without a weaponized warhead (conventional or nuclear).

The transfer of critical nuclear weapons design information (CNWDI) from Pakistan to Iran is well documented and known in US Intellligence Circles as the AQ Khan [Pakistan Atomic Energy Commission (PAEC)] debacle (1989-2000). This is also taken into account in the 2011 NIE (supra).

In the latter part of 2009, Iran did successfully tested a version of the BM-25 missile (1300 mile range). It was a launch system and missile guidance test with no explosive warhead. This particular version can have the range doubled by adding a booster unit. The importance of this version test is that it can carry a much larger warhead than a missile similar to the KH-55.


The importance here is that nothing new has been discovered since the publication of the 2011 NIE. Thus it would not alter the DNI summation that: “We do not know…if Iran will eventually decide to build nuclear weapons.”

The IRGC-QF and the Iranian MIOS will continue to collect on CNWDI and purchase functional technology as it may become available. This is a normal function of positive intelligence activities; not unique to Iran. This does not mean that Iran has an active and coordinated Nuclear Weapons Program. It just means that they scavenge what has been proliferated by Nuclear Capable nations. And scavenging activities are a symptom of a non-existent or troubled program grasping at any opportunity to cobble together something.

Most Respectfully,
R

RoccoR
17 Jan 12,, 13:19
Officer of Engineers, et al,

Short addendum.




we have definiete proof that Iran HAD engaged in nuclear weapons research .
(POST SCRIPT)

The previous comment is not intended to suggest that your observations are wrong in any way. It is - but to suggest - that we don't inadvertently jump to a conclusion that is not in evidence.

One does not have to actually see a Nuclear Weapon in order to deduce a Nuclear capability. Such nuclear capable activities have very distinctive footprints - and it is through the careful analysis of these tells, that we can detect activity, preparations, logistics, and training that is consistent with and unique to nuclear capable activities.

It is understood that General Mohammad Ali Jafari, Commander, IRGC-QF, has promised his command a nuclear capability sanctioned by the Supreme Leader. If any element within the IRGC-QF were to exhibit these nuclear capable unique tells and footprints, the paradigm would shift significantly.

Most Respectfully,
R

S2
17 Jan 12,, 15:17
"...It just means that they scavenge what has been proliferated by Nuclear Capable nations. And scavenging activities are a symptom of a non-existent or troubled program grasping at any opportunity to cobble together something."

For somebody so concerned about miscalculation this comment reeks of willful ignorance yet absent the thousands of hours of analysis contradicting it.

Your position on Iraq is well-known-a mistake. You ignore that Iraq-under sanctions, defeated and without a peace treaty- could have removed any ambiguity associated with their involvement in WMD development by fully cooperating with the IAEA. For reasons known only to Saddam and those closest to him Iraq didn't avail themselves of this option.

Now neither does Iran. Nor do they withdraw from the NPT. Instead, they've played a dangerous game of bluff and obfuscation that's certainly intended to deceive their ultimate objective. No intelligence system is perfect but I'm satisfied, as I was with Iraq, of malfeasance and duplicity regarding the most dangerous possible weapons on earth. Nothing heretofore with Iran suggests that, should YOU be wrong, those weapons would be developed and handed over to responsible hands.

In the absence of clarity sufficient to satisfy you (I'm uncertain such exists) I like our chances. I can only hope, like you, that such hostility is prosecuted with all the means necessary to scour Iran of any near/mid term possibility of this threat's re-emergence.

RoccoR
17 Jan 12,, 15:33
S2, et al,

I respect your opinion. And again - agree to disagree.


"...It just means that they scavenge what has been proliferated by Nuclear Capable nations. And scavenging activities are a symptom of a non-existent or troubled program grasping at any opportunity to cobble together something."

For somebody so concerned about miscalculation this comment reeks of willful ignorance yet absent the thousands of hours of analysis contradicting it.

(COMMENT)

While I am always a bit leery of the NIE, I think this time I will side with the DNI on this issue; as previously cited in references (supra).

There are other reasons that Iran may want to make it appear that they have a covert program.

Most Respectfully,
R

RoccoR
17 Jan 12,, 21:04
Dreadnought, et al,

There is something else behind the killing of the various Physicist in Iran. It is not the scientist that is important. That doesn't retard the design or construction of a Nuclear Device.



*Ironic huh?.........

Iran makes arrests in killing of nuclear scientist

The West believes Iran is building nuclear weapons. Iran denies that.


(COMMENT)

First a true (No Crap Story).



In 1964 the U.S. Army decided to see just how difficult it was (to build a bomb). They hired two professors that had Ph.Ds in physics, but no experience with nuclear weapons or access to nuclear secrets. The two were given the task of designing an atomic bomb using only information available to the general public. It took them roughly two years, but in the end they designed an implosion style weapon that could have been made in a local machine shop which could have produced an explosion similar to the Hiroshima bomb.

SOURCE: The UnMuseum - How to Build an Atomic Bomb (http://www.unmuseum.org/buildabomb.htm)


Any country or organization that has a decent crop of Physicists, and Iran fits this bill, with time and money, can design, fashion the components and construct a device of some magnitude, in a couple of years (probably less now).

The true problem is the acquisition of the fuel and prototype testing. Our guys had a serious problem with this. Uranium 235 is very rare. And the Enrichment Process (separating the it from other isotopes) is the key factor. Build the device, you can do in your garage. Fueling the device requires a major factory. Or, you start with Plutonium and process it. But that is, as well, difficult to come by and even more difficult to work with. Just a whiff of it will take you down. Basically this is the "Breeder Reactor" issue.

If the Iranians wanted a device, then they probably have them already. They just need fuel. With the amount of time they have had to work on the problem, they could have a half-dozen or so devices. That portion of the project is easy.

After that, they need a delivery system. As I said before, the BM-25 might just be big enough to carry the load, with a modified warhead.

Then - you need to either enrich the fuel yourself -- of scavenge for it. The most important aspect is the fuel and not the scientist.

With the exception of the fueling issue, the rest of it can be cobbled together in relative easy. We've known that you could build a bomb in a garage since before my Vietnam Days. There were rumors of the Soviet "Suitcase Bomb" for decades. When I was a young CI Agent, this was the biggest boogieman. Over the last decade, I've spent about seven years in the Middle East and Persian Gulf Region. Today's boogieman is the terrorist with fissionable materials. With fissionable materials, you do not need a Nuclear Weapons Program. Just a couple of reasonably good scientist and a machine shop.

It is fortunate for us, that the manufacture of fissionable materials is so very difficult. And that is what the UN Inspection Regiment is really looking for. And it takes a lot of effort to make it. But if the scavengers find weapons grade plutonium on the open market, then --- it could be easily hidden. That is what "Proliferation" is really all about.

If the Scientist were critical kills, then it had something to do with the manufacture or acquisition of fissionable materials. But if the Scientist were killed as subterfuge, then it is something else.

Most Respectfully,
R