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HKDan
08 Sep 11,, 03:23
HI,

I hope I'm not the only wabbit around here that is positively aching for the RWC to get started. I have a table reserved at a local sports bar and am leaving work early to catch the opening ceremony and NZ vs. Tonga tomorrow. Will this year be the year that the mighty All Blacks are able to hold it together and reclaim their rightful positions as world champions? Will I drink my own weight in beer on several occasions? CAN'T FREAKING WAIT!

bigross86
08 Sep 11,, 08:22
Totally looking forward, also rooting for the All Blacks. I learned all about the joys of rugby union when I was working and traveling in New Zealand in 2008-09. If I had the money I would totally be back in New Zealand attending as many games as physically possible

HKDan
08 Sep 11,, 12:44
My coaches in school were Kiwis. Then the first real rugby I saw was the Hong Kong Sevens in 1994 when Jonah Lomu was an unstoppable force. Hooked. Tomorrow I am wearing my All Blacks top to work, expect to catch hell from all the Ozzies and South Africans there, but sometimes you just have to let your flag fly.

dave lukins
08 Sep 11,, 13:41
HI,

I hope I'm not the only wabbit around here that is positively aching for the RWC to get started. I have a table reserved at a local sports bar and am leaving work early to catch the opening ceremony and NZ vs. Tonga tomorrow. Will this year be the year that the mighty All Blacks are able to hold it together and reclaim their rightful positions as world champions? Will I drink my own weight in beer on several occasions? CAN'T FREAKING WAIT!


Totally looking forward, also rooting for the All Blacks. I learned all about the joys of rugby union when I was working and traveling in New Zealand in 2008-09. If I had the money I would totally be back in New Zealand attending as many games as physically possible

I visualise New Zealand and Australia in the final. All Blacks the victors

bigross86
08 Sep 11,, 14:05
Care to lay a wager on that, Mr. Lukins?

http://ajzdesign.com/rugbyworldcupbracket.jpg

crooks
09 Sep 11,, 15:08
New Zealand fairly did a number on Tonga, 41-10. Congrats on an amazing opening show as well - NZ showed real class, the passing, the trys...yikes. Brave performance by Tonga mind you and the try was no more than they deserved.

Somewhat surprisingly I shall be backing the boys in Green:biggrin:. I think we should drug the Australians pre-match because I don't fancy a quarter-final with the Springboks....

bigross86
09 Sep 11,, 15:54
http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/rugbytracker/match=10920/video.html

dave lukins
09 Sep 11,, 17:37
New Zealand fairly did a number on Tonga, 41-10. Congrats on an amazing opening show as well - NZ showed real class, the passing, the trys...yikes. Brave performance by Tonga mind you and the try was no more than they deserved.

Somewhat surprisingly I shall be backing the boys in Green:biggrin:. I think we should drug the Australians pre-match because I don't fancy a quarter-final with the Springboks....

I'm sure as usual the boys in green will do you proud. The Aussies are on top form and will take a double dose of mickey finn to stop them:biggrin:

crooks
09 Sep 11,, 20:40
I'm sure as usual the boys in green will do you proud. The Aussies are on top form and will take a double dose of mickey finn to stop them:biggrin:

You read my mind:biggrin: - Most of them are part-Irish anyway so I'm thinking Jameson for those of taig descent and Bushmills for the huns, but so long as it leaves their diggeridoos thoroughly clogged I'm easy ;).

England's group is iffy too, Scotland should be ok (don't like scoring tries, hard to win with such a strategy!) but the Argies have gotten really good. I'd agree with those who reckon the All Blacks will do the business but funny thing is in the WC there's always a team that sneaks up and surprises you - France and Argentina were both relatively unexpected semi-finalists last time.

Parihaka
09 Sep 11,, 22:18
I'm backing a :gasp: Argentina - All Blacks final.

Great game last night, the Tongans did themselves proud and the AB's got the workout they needed.
Players of the game Taumalolo and Ma'a Nonu.

bigross86
10 Sep 11,, 02:04
I was impressed with the Tongans for scoring a try. Good on them, and the All Blacks looked in fine form. Springboks V Wales is also gonna be interesting

dave lukins
10 Sep 11,, 02:07
I'm backing a :gasp: Argentina - All Blacks final.


Argentina! Do you work for a bookies? :biggrin:

bigross86
10 Sep 11,, 02:13
The Argies have a strong team, they're going to join the Tri (Quad) nations next year

Parihaka
10 Sep 11,, 02:27
Argentina! Do you work for a bookies? :biggrin:

I work with bookies, they think I talk shyt and I think they talk shyt. Thus far in our relationship I think it's 50 50 in the win loose stakes, though they come up with a lot of excuses over a beer while I just accept my failures with good grace. Mostly. ;)

Parihaka
10 Sep 11,, 02:29
Another team to watch is the Japanese. They won the pacific competition this year, beating Fiji Samoa Tonga etc

Parihaka
10 Sep 11,, 02:30
The Argies have a strong team, they're going to join the Tri (Quad) nations next year
Yep. Their main advantage at the moment though is their team members are all professionals and very experienced.

bigross86
10 Sep 11,, 02:31
Games to watch for, in my opinion: All Blacks Vs France, Argentina Vs England, South Africa Vs Wales. Some other teams are strong contenders, like Wales and Ireland, and there could be some surprise teams. Dunno too much about the US, never really seen them play

HKDan
10 Sep 11,, 03:11
Argentina Vs England, South Africa Vs Wales.

This is going to be a great weekend isn't it? I feel like both Argentina and Wales, while underdogs, have got legitimate chances of winning. Got Scotland and Romania on right now. Not nearly as alluring as what is on for later today, but I don't get a lot of Rugby on TV and am happy whenever any matches are showing. ...besides, Scotland just scored the first try and it was a good one.

crooks
10 Sep 11,, 14:47
Some really good rugby being played - Good performance by England, when it was 9-3 I felt a try could have really scuppered the nerves but they came back well, will probably be happy to be over what is realistically the toughest test in their group. That said I suppose the snobbery has no place, Scotland and France both faced serious, tough challenges - Scotland in particular looked in big trouble when Romania took the lead, last ten minutes were good though. France have the swagger but it's interesting to see they've also kept the tendency to slow the foot on the pedal when they rack up an early lead.

South Africa/Wales could be a cracker but I've a feeling SA will win. A bit too much classiness for Wales even now, though OTOH going with experience can sometimes be a bad thing against a team that's young and hungry like Wales unquestionably are.

bigross86
10 Sep 11,, 15:25
Damn, Fiji played a brilliant game. That Goneva has the potential to be very dangerous. 4 tries in one game, first hat trick of the world cup and Fiji positively dominated Namibia. Question is, can Fiji keep it up against South Africa and Wales and make it past the group stage?

bigross86
10 Sep 11,, 15:37
Another team to watch is the Japanese. They won the pacific competition this year, beating Fiji Samoa Tonga etc

When you compare Fiji and Japan, I think that so far Fiji have definitely given a better showing of themselves. Every single one of Japan's 21 points so far have been scored by one person, James Alridge. That doesn't build much confidence in a team if you've got one great player and everyone else supports him

Parihaka
10 Sep 11,, 22:48
When you compare Fiji and Japan, I think that so far Fiji have definitely given a better showing of themselves. Every single one of Japan's 21 points so far have been scored by one person, James Alridge. That doesn't build much confidence in a team if you've got one great player and everyone else supports him

Why not. It got NZ through to the finals in '95 ;)

bigross86
10 Sep 11,, 23:14
True, but rugby has definitely evolved in the past decade and a half. Be interesting to see if they can pull it off again. Whatever way you look at it, this World Cup is going to be awesome!

dave lukins
11 Sep 11,, 01:14
Some really good rugby being played - Good performance by England, when it was 9-3 I felt a try could have really scuppered the nerves but they came back well, will probably be happy to be over what is realistically the toughest test in their group. That said I suppose the snobbery has no place, Scotland and France both faced serious, tough challenges - Scotland in particular looked in big trouble when Romania took the lead, last ten minutes were good though. France have the swagger but it's interesting to see they've also kept the tendency to slow the foot on the pedal when they rack up an early lead.

South Africa/Wales could be a cracker but I've a feeling SA will win. A bit too much classiness for Wales even now, though OTOH going with experience can sometimes be a bad thing against a team that's young and hungry like Wales unquestionably are.

I thought England played OK but haven't yet jelled as a team. It looked like Martin Johnson had words as they played better in the second half. Once they adjust Wilkinson's right foot, (was it 5 he missed) we should progress a little further.

dave lukins
11 Sep 11,, 01:17
When you compare Fiji and Japan, I think that so far Fiji have definitely given a better showing of themselves. Every single one of Japan's 21 points so far have been scored by one person, James Alridge. That doesn't build much confidence in a team if you've got one great player and everyone else supports him

The problem of having one great player is that they tend to attract more attention from the opposition and fail to finish the game..if you know what I mean. :rolleyes:

HKDan
11 Sep 11,, 02:49
Once they adjust Wilkinson's right foot, (was it 5 he missed) we should progress a little further.

Wasn't that shocking? I don't think I have ever seen him in such poor form. He needs to find his stride if England is going to have any chance of moving after the pools.

HKDan
11 Sep 11,, 09:44
Ireland won, of course they did. But that is the best effort I have ever seen from the Eagles.

crooks
11 Sep 11,, 12:45
I thought England played OK but haven't yet jelled as a team. It looked like Martin Johnson had words as they played better in the second half. Once they adjust Wilkinson's right foot, (was it 5 he missed) we should progress a little further.

What I took from it was they didn't buckle - Argentina were playing quite well (though somewhat wasteful) and had the lead. England kept plugging away and got the win with some spiffy enough play. No better man to scare the bejayzus out of you than Martin Johnson, he's like a reformed Vinny Jones:biggrin:.

crooks
11 Sep 11,, 12:50
The US played very well and while the try came against the run of play anyone with the instinct for that snatch (and the legs!) thoroughly deserves it. Poor enough performance from Ireland, Tommy Bowe showed his superstar-ness but Sexton's 0/4 kicks is worrying and O'Gara's first conversion attempt was awful. They should've got the bonus point and the errors hint to a similar style game to '07 (with a group stage exit). They've a bit of time to improve but if they play like that against Australia it isn't going to be close.

On close games though, commiserations to Wales. Serious heart and looked the better team for large stretches of the game.

dave lukins
11 Sep 11,, 17:04
What I took from it was they didn't buckle - Argentina were playing quite well (though somewhat wasteful) and had the lead. England kept plugging away and got the win with some spiffy enough play. No better man to scare the bejayzus out of you than Martin Johnson, he's like a reformed Vinny Jones:biggrin:.

Martin has a reputation of putting his points across with the proviso that everyone will listen...or else. I thought Wales played very well and gave South Africa a scare. It looks like everyone is having problems with the new balls as they did in football. Apparently footballs are too round and move unpredictably in the air and so with the new rugger balls, the shape is too perfect. :eek: Excuses or bad workman blaming his tools? :rolleyes:

HKDan
12 Sep 11,, 09:25
Apparently footballs are too round and move unpredictably in the air and so with the new rugger balls, the shape is too perfect. :eek: Excuses or bad workman blaming his tools? :rolleyes:

Is that what it is? The kicking so far from almost every team has been downright terrible.

Aussiegunner
13 Sep 11,, 04:39
Hi All,

I'm back after a long hiatus from WAB to talk about the most important World Affair of the moment ... the 2011 RWC!

I thought the first weekend was awesome, especially the performance of a number of second tier teams against the biggies. My favorite game was the Wales vs South Africa one. The Welsh were awesome- Their Kiwi coach had them playing like All Blacks wearing red! They were very lucky not to win I think, especially given the dodgy call over one of their penalty kicks. Even the South African Player Fransois Stein said at half time that he thought it went over!

Assuming Australia win's its pool we will be lined up to play the second place in the Welsh pool. They are well placed to make that spot and based on that performance, I hope the Wallabies won't underestimate them if they do. For that matter, if Fiji or Samoa manage to pip them at the post, they will have to be taken very, very seriously indeed by the Wallabies.

Anyway, happy rugby watching to all and my commiserations to any of your wives who might like attention over the next five weeks ;-).

AG

Parihaka
15 Sep 11,, 02:27
Big ups to Canada, great win over Tonga, great to watch basic rugby played well

Kernow
15 Sep 11,, 04:12
Apparently Wilkinson said he was kicking fine. The belief is that it is the Ball; the manufacturers did not test the ball in an Enclosed Stadiu like the one at Otago (Completly covered with Glass). Johnny will come right.


Wasn't that shocking? I don't think I have ever seen him in such poor form. He needs to find his stride if England is going to have any chance of moving after the pools.

Kernow
15 Sep 11,, 04:16
Just loved the Canadian game, real rugger at last.


Big ups to Canada, great win over Tonga, great to watch basic rugby played well

Kernow
15 Sep 11,, 04:55
McCaw, Muliaina and Dagg out of Japan match due to injury.

The Line-Up for the All Blacks against Japan is as follows:

1. Tony Woodcock (77)
2. Keven Mealamu (86) – captain
3. Owen Franks (25)
4. Brad Thorn (53)
5. Sam Whitelock (19)
6. Jerome Kaino (42)
7. Adam Thomson (22)
8. Victor Vito (9)
9. Andy Ellis (21)
10. Colin Slade (6)
11. Richard Kahui (13)
12. Ma’a Nonu (61)
13. Conrad Smith (49)
14. Cory Jane (27)
15. Isaia Toeava (33)


Reserves:
16. Andrew Hore (56)
17. John Afoa (34)
18. Ali Williams (67)
19. Anthony Boric (21)
20. Jimmy Cowan (48)
21. Piri Weepu (50)
22. Sonny Bill Williams (8)

bigross86
15 Sep 11,, 07:12
That's not going to be good, McCaw and Dagg are not quite key players, but they're still an important part of the system. Hopefully the All Blacks can hold, anyway

Officer of Engineers
15 Sep 11,, 07:14
We play rugby?

Parihaka
15 Sep 11,, 09:01
That's not going to be good, McCaw and Dagg are not quite key players, but they're still an important part of the system. Hopefully the All Blacks can hold, anyway

Against Japan? No offence but my parents could hold against Japan

bigross86
15 Sep 11,, 18:43
True, but what happens if the injuries last?

Parihaka
15 Sep 11,, 20:19
True, but what happens if the injuries last?
They won't. The coaches have received no end of grief from the press over their rotation policy, this is just player rotation by proxy.

Aussiegunner
16 Sep 11,, 12:39
The AB's/Japan game was kinda embarressing. I got the distinct feeling the AB's were trying to give the Japs a try at the end but couldn't do so with any degree of credibility.

Gutsy little buggers though, no problem with tactics but when it take three of them to tackle every Kiwi it leads to a pretty horrific overlap by the time it gets out the the inside centre. Fifty more years of Wayagu and they will be contenders I think.

tantalus
17 Sep 11,, 12:58
Ireland 15 - Aussies 6

Beautiful

and surely we have blown the whole world cup wide open, because if we beat Italy, South Africa beat Samoa and New Zealand beat France, all the Tri-Nations teams will end up on one side of the draw.....

crooks
17 Sep 11,, 12:59
Wow I'm wondering if midday is too soon to start drinking:biggrin:? What a win, just what the doctor ordered for Irish rugby - heart, conviction and pride in the jersey from 1 to 15. Perhaps not as skillful as other nations but by god will they work when they sense an upset. Australia didn't score in the second half, the defending was incredible. Australia were clearly affected by the injuries (can't remember seeing a Southern Hemisphere team more lacking a leader or even more broadly a gameplan, ever) but I think it showed real grit to get the win, D'arcy (praying it's not his hamstring), Best and Healy in particular. O'Gara steadied the ship with his kicking as well, with respect to a great young player Sexton just isn't firing in all cylinders right now. Good for Ireland and good for the Northern Hemisphere as well. Hopefully they can push on and win the group.

dave lukins
17 Sep 11,, 13:14
Not the greatest game in the world but the result speaks for itself. Well done Ireland. Onward and upward. ;)

crooks
17 Sep 11,, 13:23
Ireland 15 - Aussies 6

Beautiful

and surely we have blown the whole world cup wide open, because if we beat Italy, South Africa beat Samoa and New Zealand beat France, all the Tri-Nations teams will end up on one side of the draw.....

That creates an interesting dynamic though in that the loser of South Africa/Samoa or perhaps as likey Samoa/Wales may consider themselves to be in a better position....Australia with their returned players (if they get them back) will presumably be a very tough outfit and once stung twice shy.

Still that's for another day, we got up early to see it and maybe it's karma as a reward. Hope you and yours enjoyed it as much as we did:biggrin:!

bigross86
17 Sep 11,, 13:32
Definitely some great games being played this World Cup.

tantalus
17 Sep 11,, 14:35
Crooks

Wow I'm wondering if midday is too soon to start drinking
on a saturday, the pubs are going to do roaring business....

Next up Kerry vs Dublin, what a weekend of sport

regarding the rugger, gotta keep our heads down, reckon we will be very nervous against the Italians. The Australian defeat will surely have raised eyebrows in France, England et al aswell, everyone is thinking of a potential final appearance if the tri-nations teams end up on the one side.

crooks
17 Sep 11,, 18:14
Crooks

on a saturday, the pubs are going to do roaring business....

Next up Kerry vs Dublin, what a weekend of sport.

regarding the rugger, gotta keep our heads down, reckon we will be very nervous against the Italians. The Australian defeat will surely have raised eyebrows in France, England et al aswell, everyone is thinking of a potential final appearance if the tri-nations teams end up on the one side.

Yeah Italy won't exactly lie back, thing is this actually puts something of a spanner into the way the Italians would have wanted it - they'd have liked Australia to top the group with comfort and to suprise Ireland and try to sneak second. As stands if they did do that it'd be a three way mess for the two spots. Australia will probably get a couple of bonus points and thus finish up out of Italy's reach whereas if they were chasing Ireland it would presumably be easier. That said if Ireland play like they did today hard to see Italy touching them either way.

On another note I seriously try never to be unsporting but it's comedic gold like this from sections of Aussie supporters that seems to make everyone else happy when Australians lose at anything:


Hi Wallabies,

Yeah, Iím drunk. Why? Iím trying to forget. Again. Iím trying to forget another piss weak effort in the face of pretty poor opposition. Ireland? Really? Come on guys, they could hardly beat the USA. And yet you lost to them. Comfortably.



Itís times like these I wish I was one of those people who donít care about sport. You know the type- they carry on life blissfully ignorant of any sporting activity, and they are predominately HAPPY. Why? Because they donít have to put up with piss-weak shit like you served up tonight. I mean seriously, you raised my hopes by winning the Tri-Nations, and then you come out and lose to ****ing IRELAND.



You donít deserve to win the World Cup after that. I know you were without Pocock, Moore and Ioane, and Bryce Lawrence was a bit of a shit but you still should have been good enough. You want to beat the All Blacks or South Africa, but you canít even beat Ireland? Get real guys, you clearly donít have what it takes.



Now let me get personal for a second. Too may guys just didnít show up. Rocky, where were you? Sekope? McCalman? Ant? Pat? Not good enough guys. Not happy. I have invested years in this side, and you just didnít show up when it mattered. And that hurts me, it really does. And it hurts so many people out there, to see you meekly lose to the ****ing IRISH. Come on. Please. You talk the talk, you have to ****ing walk the walk. All that stuff after the 3N about being able to beat anyone in the world, all that confidence you had in the backline and in the forward pack, you need to back it up guys. But you couldnít. You just came up short. Again.



And yet agian I am in the same position, drinking to forget. Trying to forget another insipid forward effort, or too many popped passes in the backline when it just wasnít on. I mean seriously, we lost the ball three times when we got held up in a maul. Come on guys, what is this, under 10s? I havenít seen that shit for years. And yet you dished it up to us in the World Cup. The ****ing World Cup, the one tournament I look forward to every four years. Shit, I booked tickets to see your QF. Now what am I supposed to do? Cheer for the ****ing Welsh? Are you serious?



Now for you Robbie. You didnít think you would get off unscathed did you? For once we thought that we had overcome that great Wallaby scourge- inconsistency. We would play like world-beaters one week, only to fall the next week to the ****ing IRISH. But it appears that we havenít. Why didnít we take a second openside to NZ? Your theories about playing a bulky 7 just plain failed. McCalman sucked, and we needed Beau or Hodgson. We took 0 turnovers from memory. 0. You were outcoached, plain and simple. It makes me wonder why the ARU signed you on for three more seasons.



This article gives me no satisfaction. Absolutely none. I love the Wallabies, and yet they let me down so consistently I wonder why I bother. Again I wish I was one of those people who just didnít care, whose Saturdays were filled with rugby-free fun and activity and who could wake up on a Sunday morning and greet the world with a smile regardless of what happened on some distant field the night before. But Iím not. Iím just not. I need the Wallabies to win for my personal satisfaction. I donít know why, I suppose it was just the way I was brought up. But still I need it.



And that makes it hurts so much more when you donít deliver. Honestly, I donít mid if you lose to the All Blacks at Eden Park. I mean Christ, they are a ****ing good side. But the Irish? No. I wonít accept that. I just wonít. Man for man we are just plain better than them. And we should have won. And I donít care how well they played on the night. We should have played better.



So in conclusion I am out. Out. I will cheer for you as you put the USA and Russia to the sword, but you have largely lost any faith I have in you. Clearly when the going gets tough, most of you run the other way. And it ****ing hurts me to say this. And I would love it if you proved me wrong and won the cup, but letís face it- itís not going to happen, is it? If you canít beat the Irish, you ainít going to beat the Boks or the ABs.



And I apologise for any typos or bad grammar in this post. As the title suggests, I am pretty drunk. In my defence, it is my only response mechanism to years of insipid Wallaby failures.

Yours Sincerely,

Barbarian.

A Drunken Letter to the Wallabies (http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/a-drunken-letter-to-the-wallabies/)

Never been happier to be ****ing IRISH:biggrin:.

bigross86
17 Sep 11,, 19:07
Bloody brilliant letter!

Parihaka
18 Sep 11,, 01:33
Awesome game by Ireland, they totally closed down the Aussie forwards and forced them in to basic errors. It was interesting from within the first quarter that the Aussie team were dissing each other for mistakes rather than focusing on what they could do differently. It quickly became apparent they were a bunch of individuals where the Irish played as a team, praising each other and relying on each others strengths.
So now we are probably looking at a Sth Africa/Australia quarterfinal and on form you've got to pick Sth Africa.
The AB's are looking equal or better than the Springboks so baring yet another repeat of the France hoodoo we'll meet them in the semis. oh happy days!

BTW, I think people are being a wee bit hard on Sexton, his game was good and his kicking got 9 points.

Parihaka
18 Sep 11,, 01:34
Yeah Italy won't exactly lie back, thing is this actually puts something of a spanner into the way the Italians would have wanted it - they'd have liked Australia to top the group with comfort and to suprise Ireland and try to sneak second. As stands if they did do that it'd be a three way mess for the two spots. Australia will probably get a couple of bonus points and thus finish up out of Italy's reach whereas if they were chasing Ireland it would presumably be easier. That said if Ireland play like they did today hard to see Italy touching them either way.

On another note I seriously try never to be unsporting but it's comedic gold like this from sections of Aussie supporters that seems to make everyone else happy when Australians lose at anything:



A Drunken Letter to the Wallabies (http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/a-drunken-letter-to-the-wallabies/)

Never been happier to be ****ing IRISH:biggrin:.

For the first half of the letter I thought it was written by Robbie Deans

Parihaka
18 Sep 11,, 01:58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZukiIS9OeY
Says it all really

Aussiegunner
21 Sep 11,, 07:07
Bummer, though at least we only got our kick in the arse in the pools rather than the quarters like last time. Lets hope it is a wakeup call.

I pissed myself laughing at the bit in the letter where he said he'd bought tickets to the Quarters and asked "What am I supposed to do, cheer for F***ing Wales?" At least one funny thing came out of a miserable weekend for Aussie rugby supporters.

Parihaka
21 Sep 11,, 08:09
I'm going to the USA vs Australia game this Friday, should be good for a laugh.

bigross86
21 Sep 11,, 18:55
From everything I've seen so far in this World Cup, northern hemisphere rugby puts a much heavier emphasis on kicking as opposed to southern hemisphere rugby which has a combination of tries and kicks. The USA might be able to get quite a few points up on the board, and if they can hold Oz down on the tries it could wind up being a very interesting match

dave lukins
21 Sep 11,, 21:01
From everything I've seen so far in this World Cup, northern hemisphere rugby puts a much heavier emphasis on kicking as opposed to southern hemisphere rugby which has a combination of tries and kicks. The USA might be able to get quite a few points up on the board, and if they can hold Oz down on the tries it could wind up being a very interesting match

The US needs to stop giving so many penalties away. I think the score would have been a lot closer with more dicipline.

bigross86
21 Sep 11,, 21:06
We shall see. In general, the kicking hasn't been too great, either. Depending on the Aussie kicker, penalties might be the way to go...

Parihaka
22 Sep 11,, 00:31
Australia has to be able to prove to itself it can run in tries and dominate the breakdown. If they don't give the US a good old fashioned arse kicking (40+ margin) then they're meat in the quarters, Sth Africa will eat them.

As an aside i got to spend some time with the Georgian team yesterday while they played paintball, great bunch of guys

snapper
22 Sep 11,, 01:28
I note that the Scots will not be alowed to play bagpipes before the game against England.... Why?

Parihaka
22 Sep 11,, 01:33
I note that the Scots will not be alowed to play bagpipes before the game against England.... Why?

The rule was introduced after the vuvuzela fiasco at the soccer world cup.


Rugby World Cup spokesman (http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/poll-breathes-new-life-into-rwc-bagpipes-row-4413429) Mike Jaspers said earlier in the week that there was no specific ban on bagpipes, but a range of musical items, such as drums and vuvuzelas, are not allowed in because they can interfere with others' enjoyment of the game
It's effing silly IMO

dave lukins
22 Sep 11,, 02:47
The rule was introduced after the vuvuzela fiasco at the soccer world cup.


It's effing silly IMO

We will have supporters shouting in a whisper soon. The noise and razzmatazz is all part of the excitment.

Parihaka
22 Sep 11,, 02:52
We will have supporters shouting in a whisper soon. The noise and razzmatazz is all part of the excitment.Aye. I personally hated the vuvuzela but lets face it, rugby supporters are a class above soccer supporters and would never stoop so low as to use one. ;)

Aussiegunner
22 Sep 11,, 04:45
I would have thought the Scots would have an official bagpiper or pipe band for those games? After all, if the Kiwi's and the Islanders can have hakas then why not?

Aussiegunner
22 Sep 11,, 04:48
This is obviously written by a Kiwi and is very funny. Love the comment about Willie Mason (a meat head Tongan/Australian Rugby League player for those who don't know him).

The Definitive RWC Team Guide

Pool A

Canada
Basic Info : This large North American nation of 34.6 million is best known as the smaller (and smarter) brother of the U.S of A.
If you meet a Canadian in the street : You may struggle understanding a Canadian in the street. This is because they may be speaking French or a strange English dialect in which the term 'eh' is used at the end of each sentence.
Chances of Winning : Although hockey is the passion of the majority of native Canadians, the similarities in the two sports (violence and cold weather) should see them take a win or two.
Canadians You May Know : Wayne Gretzky (Hockey superstar whose big heart in a small body would have made him a perfect halfback). Justin Beiber (Girl band singer and proponent of bad haircuts)



France
Basic Info : Small European Nation with a population of 65.8 million people, half of whom are Englanders filming "A Place In The Sun"- style reality programmes for the Living Channel. Best known to kiwis for blowing up the Rainbow Warrior
If you meet a Frenchman in the street : Duck for cover
Chances of Winning : Almost nil - unless Wayne Barnes referees all their important matches.
French People You May Know : Alain Marfart & Dominique Prieur (Saboteurs), Sebastien Chabal (Rugby player and missing link)



Japan
Basic Info : Asian Island Nation of 128 million people with an industrial focus on high tech industries in which the good ideas of other nations are transformed into actual working products.
If you meet Japanese people in the street : Be prepared to smile for plenty of photos.
Chances of Winning : A game? Maybe. The Tournament? Snowballs chance in hell.
Japanese People You May Know : Surprisingly, you may know many of the Japanese squad members competing this year. They include John Kirwan-san (Auckland Marist), Luke Thompson-san (Kaiapoi), James Arlidge-san (Pakuranga) and Shaun Webb-san (Blenheim).



New Zealand
Basic Info : Consistently proven as not only the greatest rugby country on the planet, but the greatest country full stop. This nation of 4.4 million people and 40 +- million sheep is heaven on earth.
If you meet a Kiwi in the street : Remember to introduce yourself to the trailing sheep and try to discuss the rugby early in the conversation. Kiwis are notoriously single minded when it comes to rugby and can be found to be ignorant in other areas - particularly foreign cultures. Kiwi's tendency to stereotype is legendary.
Chances of Winning : Put the house on it.
Kiwis You May Know : Lord Sir Ayatollah Graham Henry (Greatest coach in any sport - ever), Sir Daniel Carter (Greatest player in any sport - ever), Fred Dagg (Composer of NZ's national anthem "We Don't Know How Lucky We Are")



Tonga
Basic Info : Pacific Island Nation of 100,000 people
If you meet a Tongan in the street : Tongans are easy people to spot on account of the Tongan flags hanging off their cars. Rest assured the $2 shop has made their millions. Mentioning Manu Vatuvei should start the conversation nicely.
Chances of Winning : With all Tongan games in the North Island of New Zealand (or the South Island of Tonga as it is often referred to) the Tongans will be looking at the Canadians and Japanese as possibilities for a win.
Tongans You May Know : Manu Vatuvei (League Legend), Paea Wolfgram (Winner of Tongas first Olympic metal), Willie Mason (Tw@t)

Pool B



Argentina
Basic Info : South American Nation of 40 million horse riders, steak eaters and tango dancers.
If you meet an Argentine in the street : Striking a moment of sobriety amongst Argentina fans is a rare moment indeed and should be treated with respect. If you encounter them on the other 99.9% of their NZ tour, ensure you know the ole, ole, ole, ole chant back to front.
Chances of Winning : The Argies will surprise a few at this tournament - keep an eye on their first encounter with the Poms to get an idea of how their tournament will proceed.
Argentines You May Know : Diego Maradona (Handball player), Che Guevara (Legendary revolutionary leader or common murderer depending on your political lean)



England
Basic Info : Island nation (not the Pacific type - more the Nordic type) off the coast of Europe. The majority of the 52 million population enjoy cups of tea, a pint of bitter at the 'pob', Coronation Street and rioting.
If you meet a Pom in the street : Don't worry about talking to them - you won't get a word in edge wise. Sit quietly and listen to how well they are going to do before chanting "You're going home in an All Black Ambulance" several times.
Chances of Winning : The Poms are traditionally much better at inventing sports than playing them. Interesting to note that a full squad of players has been sent to New Zealand despite the team only ever playing ten man rugby. Take the chances your average Pom thinks they have of winning the RWC and divide it by 10.
Poms You May Know : Johnny Wilkinson (Statue), Queen Elizabeth The Second (Women's magazine subject and part time cruise ship), David Beckham (Comedian),



Romania
Basic Info : European nation of 24 million people, many of whom (despite general opinion to the contrary) are not vampires. Also inventors of a brutal petrol-like alcoholic substance that is sure to make my Christmas mornings a misery when our neighbours pop over with a bottle every Christmas Eve.
If you meet a Romanian in the street : Popular opinion suggests most Romanians only come out at night. Commiserate with them on their string of heavy defeats at RWC 2011. Don't accept any clear alcoholic substances under any circumstances.
Chances of Winning : Think Tua v Lewis and you'll be in the ballpark.
Romanians You May Know : Count Dracula (Sesame Street Character)



Georgia
Basic Info : Not the American State apparently. A sovereign state in the South Caucasus region of Eurasia (thanks Wiki). Georgia's 4.7 million inhabitants are best known for being that team at RWC 2011 whose flag no one knows. It is always being invaded by Russia and suffers very cold winters followed by very cold summers.
If you meet a Georgian in the street : Comment on how cold it is in New Zealand at this time of the year and ask if they'd noticed how few times Russia has invaded since the opening ceremony. If that fails sing them "Georgia on my mind" and run like the wind.
Chances of Winning : Think Cameron v Tua and you'll be in the ballpark.
Georgians You May Know : Martin Luther King Jr (Politician), The Guy That Invented Coca Cola (Inventor), Hulk Hogan (Actor)



Scotland
Basic Info : That bit on the map above England but coloured in a different colour is the home to 12 million Scots. The national drink is whiskey and the Laphroig brand is the reason I'm often absent from work on Mondays.
If you meet a Scotsman in the street : Don't suggest that you go out for a drink - you'll end up penniless due to the Scots reputation for short arms and deep pockets.
Chances of Winning : Think Tua, Cameron and Lewis v you in a Battle Royal and you'll be in the ballpark.
Scots You May Know : Mel Gibson (Actor), Billy Connolly (Swearer), Alexander Graham Bell (The bloke that stole the plans for the telephone from an Italian bloke then stole all the fame and fortune for "inventing" said telephone)

Pool C



Australia
Basic Info: Large island off the coast of New Zealand inhabited by 21 million convicts, 2 million New Zealanders and enough deadly animals to ensure any smart Kiwi stays well away.
If you meet an Australian in the street: You have my sympathy.
Chances of Winning: As always the Aussies rate themselves highly coming in to the tournament and are likely going to be the Mighty Mighty All Blacks final victim.
Australians You May Know: John Farnham (Best. Mullet. Ever), Split Enz (NZ Rock Band), Crowded House (NZ Rock Band), Dragon (NZ Rock Band), Phar Lap (NZ Race Horse), Quade Cooper (NZ First-Five), Russell Crowe (Australian Actor)


Ireland
Basic Info: A rare combined team comprising the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. These two nations stop blowing each other up for six weeks every four years to compete at the Rugby World Cup.
If you meet Irish people in the street: You're in for a hell of a few days. Be prepared to drink Guinness 24/7, only stopping to eat steak and Guinness hotpots - with potatoes, potatoes, potatoes.
Chances of Winning: Pool C is probably the weakest of the lot. Ireland should make the quarters - failure to do so will result in lost Viaduct pub revenues of an estimated 10 million dollars.
Irish People You May Know: Darren Clarke (Golfer, Alcoholic), Colin Farrell (Actor, Alcoholic), Brian O'Driscoll (Rugby Player, - Could've 'doied')


Italy
Basic Info: Boot shaped south European nation of 61 million inhabitants. Most Italians argue a lot, sleep with anything that moves and live on the East Coast in an area called Jersey Shore.
If you meet Italians in the street: Shake hands then fall to the ground grasping your eye, seething in agony. This will show your guests that you have a good knowledge of Italian soccer. Females should not approach Italian men under any circumstances.
Chances of Winning: The Azzurri have surprised a few northern journos with the odd victory over six-nations teams in the past. They may not win but there's every chance there'll be a lot of scoring going on.
Italian People You May Know: Luciano Pavarotti (Tenor, Womaniser), Silvio Berlusconi (Prime Minister, Womaniser), Giacomo Cassanova (Womaniser, Womaniser).


Russia
Basic Info: Freaking huge country of 143 million vodka drinkers that used to be part of the freaking huger U.S.S.R. before the Iron Curtain was torn down. Home of smoking hot but averagely talented tennis players.
If you meet Russians in the street: Ask for a nip of Vodka. Speak in a deep thundering voice and remove all vowels from the words you are using.
Chances of Winning: Are you serious?
Russians You May Know: Maria Sharapova (The New Anna Kournikova), Anna Kournakova (The Old Maria Sharapova), Dasha Astafieva (Cover Girl - Playboy Nude Playmates 2011), Nikita (That chick from the Elton John song that will never know anything about his home), Sergey Brin (Really, really rich)



United States of America
Basic Info: Large North American country and self proclaimed centre of the universe, land of the free and home of the brave. None of which is true. The average IQ of Americans is amongst the lowest in the developed world with one group in particular dragging the average down. These people are known as Republicans.
If you meet Americans in the street: Speak slowly. The Americans have no idea what English is.
Chances of Winning: Significantly better than their chances in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea or most of Central America but still less than .01%.
Americans You May Know: George W Bush (Terrorist), Justin Timberlake (Talent yet to be discovered - but famous all the same), Larry Page (Really, really rich)


Pool D


Fiji
Basic Info: Melanesian Island nation of 850,000 people ruled over by whichever army leader was involved in the last monthly military coup. Home of the world's worst beer 'Fiji Bitter' and one of the best rugby sevens teams you'll ever see.
If you meet Fijians in the street: STAY. AWAY. FROM. THE. KAVA.
Chances of Winning: With 8 blokes on the field that have no idea why they are there, probably not very much at all.
Fijians You May Know: Joeli Vidiri (All Black Winger), Sitiveni Sivivatu (All Black Winger), Rupeni Caucaunibuca (All Black Winger), Josevata Rokocoko (All Black Winger)


Namibia
Basic Info: African country north of South Africa (unsurprisingly) of just over 2 million people. They have several deserts and a good women's roller hockey team. (Thanks Wiki)
If you meet Namibians in the street: You're probably not going to have much in common. I've researched thoroughly on Wiki and am yet to find anything interesting.
Chances of Winning: Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha <breathes> hahahahahahahahahaha
Namibians You May Know: Percy Montgomery (Springbok fullback and pretty boy) - Namibian - who would have thunk it?


Samoa
Basic Info: Pacific Island Nation of 179,000 people who live in paradise. Samoa consists of 8 smaller islets and the three main islands of Upolu, Savai'I and Te Ika-a-M'ui.
If you meet Samoans in the street: STAY. AWAY. FROM. THE. KAVA.
Chances of Winning: A realistic chance of toppling Wales for the second quarter final spot - a result that will send most of Auckland into a 7 day party.
Samoans You May Know: David Tua (O for Owsome), Peter Fatialofa (Piano Mover), Olo Brown (All Black prop that my cat is named after)


South Africa
Basic Info: Nation of 51 million people located in Africa's South. Home of the great culinary delight known as Boerewors (like NZ sausages but made of meat). New Zealand's traditional rugby arch-rival (unless they beat us in which case all that matters is The Bledisloe Cup)
If you meet South Africans in the street: You are probably in Albany.
Chances of Winning: Probably the second favourites behind the Mighty Mighty All Blacks - therefore no chance at all.
South Africans You May Know: Suzie (Waitress), Pieter de Villiers (Comedian), Joel Stransky (Dream Crusher)




Wales
Basic Info: Country of 3 million leek eating, rugby loving coal miners who hate the English. Wales is not dissimilar to New Zealand in many ways. All Welsh men are named either Ian, Gareth, David or Thomas and have the last name Jones, Williams, Thomas or Evans. Beware of imitators.
If you meet Welsh People in the street: Try to induce phlegm whilst saying Prynhawn da, Pob dymuniad da. The Welsh language is less about the pronunciation and more about the amount of spit produced.
Chances of Winning: Absolutely no chance - but don't tell the Welsh - they don't realise it yet.
Welsh People You May Know: Bonnie Tyler (80s rock chick), Tom Jones (Underwear Model)

Parihaka
22 Sep 11,, 09:15
Well, it's looking increasingly likely that the three best nations in the world will meet before the final and one (There can be only one) will go on to meet whatever team drags itself up from what were the pools of death but are now the spa-pools of idolatrous luxury. Expect a bloodbath.

dave lukins
22 Sep 11,, 12:39
Looks like South Africa might just scrape through against Namibia :rolleyes:

bigross86
22 Sep 11,, 18:54
Wow, I feel bad for Namibia. They put up a fighting chance and put on a good show their first 2 games, but put them up against a real team, and look what happens. I was cringing all day in the office...

Parihaka
23 Sep 11,, 00:39
In NZ it's a code of honour that you don't show mercy to the minnows. How else are they going to learn? SOOOOOOO looking forward to this Wallabys/Eagles game tonight.

Aussiegunner
23 Sep 11,, 04:33
Well, it's looking increasingly likely that the three best nations in the world will meet before the final and one (There can be only one) will go on to meet whatever team drags itself up from what were the pools of death but are now the spa-pools of idolatrous luxury. Expect a bloodbath.

The other side of the draw will be no spa-pool of idolatrous luxury. Three of the four teams likely to make the quarters (England, France and Wales) have beaten every one of the Tri-nations teams in the past and they can do it again. My pick for the team to make the finals is Wales, based on what I saw against South Africa they have the edge on the others. I'm even going to put $20 on it, its worth it at 5 to 1.

Parihaka
23 Sep 11,, 05:01
Ooooh big call :biggrin: Remember they'll probably be meeting Ireland in the quarters....
That's another game i'm looking forward to

bigross86
23 Sep 11,, 10:45
Found a live stream, and am not working so I can actually watch the game. 12 minutes, 2 Wallaby tries and they missed the conversion both times. USA needs to start playing a kicking game

Parihaka
23 Sep 11,, 16:47
Did ya see me? I was the guy in a white T-Shirt and sunglasses waving a US flag when the US scored a try, right next to the 'Quade Cooper is a neuter' sign.

(we give him shyt because he's a kiwi playing for Australia)

Good night, two young ladies slightly more than half my age told me they loved me, though apparently in a platonic sense. Still damn fine though.....

dave lukins
23 Sep 11,, 17:44
Did ya see me? I was the guy in a white T-Shirt and sunglasses waving a US flag when the US scored a try, right next to the 'Quade Cooper is a neuter' sign.

(we give him shyt because he's a kiwi playing for Australia)

Good night, two young ladies slightly more than half my age told me they loved me, though apparently in a platonic sense. Still damn fine though.....

I do hope those two young ladies don't wake up with too much of a hangover.;)

Parihaka
23 Sep 11,, 23:42
I do hope those two young ladies don't wake up with too much of a hangover.;)

One would hope so, though I certainly did.

bigross86
23 Sep 11,, 23:56
Did you at least get a couple pics of the young lasses to share with the rest of us?

Back to the game, however, although it was a rout (kinda obvious), at least they did manage to score a try. That should do plenty for their self-esteem

Parihaka
24 Sep 11,, 22:42
Did you at least get a couple pics of the young lasses to share with the rest of us?

Sorry, I don't kiss and tell.

Well, not a perfect performance against France in that they were allowed to get some points. As Henry put it, 8 out of 10 and room for improvement but this is the first time since 95 that the AB's genuinely look like they are in to win.

bigross86
24 Sep 11,, 23:50
The French had to salvage what was left of their honor after their football team gave an abysmal performance at their World Cup, so they fought extra hard. It was a good game to watch, though. I may be falling in love (in a very platonic way) with Ma'a Nonu

HKDan
25 Sep 11,, 01:27
I may be falling in love (in a very platonic way) with Ma'a Nonu

This does not make you gay. He was very impressive. I think I may have told my wife at one point last night that we are naming our first son Sonny Bill.

Aussiegunner
25 Sep 11,, 04:09
Back to the game, however, although it was a rout (kinda obvious), at least they did manage to score a try. That should do plenty for their self-esteem

The US try was a bit of a soft one, the Wallabies forgot to put somebody in defence on the blindside of the scrum (WTF!!!), but it came after 16 phases of offensive play by the US which is a very good effort. It was a well deserved try.

Hats off to the Americans, rugby players there are generally those who can't get into college football so they aren't drawing from a pool of elite athletes. Even their captian is an Aussie who only ever got to play at club level in Australia. When I saw our big, not so agile number 8 Rocky Elsom sidestep their fullback for a try, I knew we were safe for a big win and a bonus point

Yet, the Yanks have qualified for every RWC, turn up every four years despite the odds against them and playing a sport that nobody in the US understands or cares about, and put in some very spirted performance. It say's a lot for their national character that even when they have no chance of winning they know how to act like winners.

crooks
25 Sep 11,, 13:31
Dang, commiserations to my Gaelic brothers, Argentina beat Scotland 13-12 with a pretty beautiful try in the last ten minutes. Scotland now need to beat England....they don't need motivation for that but I'm not sure they have enough gas in the tank to do it. Paterson missed a lot of kicks and even after the try Scotland had a bounty of chances. Score difference means they may well be going home.

Really enjoyed Ireland - Russia - nine tries by eight players (some of them pretty golden) and a couple of spectular replies from Russia (one by a player with an Irish accent, being a former student of Blackrock College, Ireland U19s and UCD, Vasily Artemyev). First game they've really dominated and let out a bit of flourish, big confidence booster going into the match with Italy. Fair dues to Samoa as well, I actually think they have a point about the rest days favouring the big teams - they still came out and beat Fiji.

Aussiegunner
25 Sep 11,, 13:51
Dang, commiserations to my Gaelic brothers, Argentina beat Scotland 13-12 with a pretty beautiful try in the last ten minutes. Scotland now need to beat England....they don't need motivation for that but I'm not sure they have enough gas in the tank to do it. Paterson missed a lot of kicks and even after the try Scotland had a bounty of chances. Score difference means they may well be going home.

Really enjoyed Ireland - Russia - nine tries by eight players (some of them pretty golden) and a couple of spectular replies from Russia (one by a player with an Irish accent, being a former student of Blackrock College, Ireland U19s and UCD, Vasily Artemyev). First game they've really dominated and let out a bit of flourish, big confidence booster going into the match with Italy. Fair dues to Samoa as well, I actually think they have a point about the rest days favouring the big teams - they still came out and beat Fiji.
Still, Italy only get four days before your game against them and they are in the top ten aren't they?

crooks
25 Sep 11,, 15:33
Still, Italy only get four days before your game against them and they are in the top ten aren't they?

They're number 10 so just about. It isn't fair on them either - Ireland get a weeks rest now against what would be the lower tier team of the two so in a way it illustrates the point, and all through the contest we've seen the bigger teams getting longer stretches off to prepare. It's unsporting but honest to say minnows probably won't win games against the big kahunas but actively undermining their chances (however slim they may be) by the very structure of the tournie is another thing altogether.

Can't see why there can't be some form of equal days rest, even if it would mean playing the same group games on the same day. I get that they want a marquee game for tv audiences every day of play but I think there's a balance between commerical interest and the actual point of the tournament, sporting excellence.

dave lukins
25 Sep 11,, 21:16
This does not make you gay. He was very impressive. I think I may have told my wife at one point last night that we are naming our first son Sonny Bill.

Don't expect any children until you come to your senses :biggrin:

Aussiegunner
26 Sep 11,, 00:45
They're number 10 so just about. It isn't fair on them either - Ireland get a weeks rest now against what would be the lower tier team of the two so in a way it illustrates the point, and all through the contest we've seen the bigger teams getting longer stretches off to prepare. It's unsporting but honest to say minnows probably won't win games against the big kahunas but actively undermining their chances (however slim they may be) by the very structure of the tournie is another thing altogether.

Can't see why there can't be some form of equal days rest, even if it would mean playing the same group games on the same day. I get that they want a marquee game for tv audiences every day of play but I think there's a balance between commerical interest and the actual point of the tournament, sporting excellence.

I agree, especially for this game as Italy would normally have an outside chance of beating Ireland and changing the outcome in the group. Same goes for teams like Samoa.

Parihaka
28 Sep 11,, 01:12
All Blacks may skip 2015 WCup: NZRU chief (http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gfDYR6vKFt88lM03AffyVYkYuOsA?docId=CNG.db1d2 3e131011b151e848f9dcb9407bd.1d1)


By Neil Sands (AFP) Ė 52 minutes ago

WELLINGTON ó The All Blacks would consider pulling out of the 2015 Rugby World Cup unless commercial restrictions imposed on teams were revamped, New Zealand Rugby Union (NZRU) chief Steve Tew said Wednesday.

Tew said such a drastic and unprecedented step would be "the very last port of call" but could not be ruled out, as current arrangements meant his organisation posted a loss every time the quadrennial tournament was held.

"That's obviously a last resort and our style is to be consultative, collaborative and to try to work with everybody to find a solution," Tew told Radio New Zealand when asked if the All Blacks could boycott the 2015 World Cup in England.

Tew said International Rugby Board (IRB) rules penalised major unions in World Cup years because their regular Test schedules were curtailed and teams were not allowed to promote their sponsors during the tournament.

He said this meant that competing at the 2011 World Cup was costing the NZRU more than NZ$13 million ($10.3 million).

"It's putting pressure on the balance sheet and frankly, in the current environment, we just can't afford to run a World Cup-year loss, nor do we think it's necessary." he said.

Earlier, Tew told Britain's Guardian newspaper: "The prospects of us going to England in 2015 under the current model are very slim. We cannot continue to sign on for an event that costs us so much money."

He told Radio NZ that the NZRU had been pushing the IRB for changes to the commercial arrangements for eight years and had gone public to try to ensure the issue was finalised by 2015.

"Now is not a bad time to make sure the issue is raised and considered, to give ourselves enough time to find a solution without having to go to any drastic measures," he said.

"We have the support of most of the major unions and a review is not only necessary but now, in our view, quite urgent."

Tew said the bulk of the NZRU's NZ$13 million shortfall came from television revenues and gate receipts lost because the annual Tri-Nations competition was shortened in World Cup years so it did not clash with the tournament.

He said other major unions faced similar problems, estimating their combined losses at 35-40 million pounds ($55-63 million).

Tew said solutions the IRB could consider were changing the World Cup date, to allow a full Tri-Nations schedule, or paying more money to participating unions.

He also said the IRB's World Cup sponsorship rules, designed to avoid any clash between team sponsors and the IRB's own corporate supporters, should be relaxed.

"In football, the FIFA model, there is room for both sets of sponsors to get some coverage during the World Cup period and we think that's something we should be looking at very seriously," he said.

bigross86
28 Sep 11,, 01:19
Sad is it will be to not see them play in 2015, the man does have a point. Why should they volunteer for something that will cost them THAT much money?

Parihaka
28 Sep 11,, 03:17
Sad is it will be to not see them play in 2015, the man does have a point. Why should they volunteer for something that will cost them THAT much money?

Our other big contention is the Northern Hemisphere will never pay a percentage of gate takings. They make squillions from them whenever the AB's appear but the NZRB just get costs.

bigross86
28 Sep 11,, 08:36
Are northern hemisphere teams getting a cut from the gate in this world cup?

Aussiegunner
28 Sep 11,, 10:14
Sounds like piss and wind, and poor form to boot. The NZRU is a not for profit organisation with the objective of promoting Rugby in NZ, just like the other unions are. Not every activity is supposed to make a profit and whinging about $10m every 4 years, which isn't much in the context of the NZ rugby industry, is ridiculous. It is the biggest event in Rugby and there is no way the AB's wouldn't show. Playing these games during your own tournament, which NZ begged to get, smacks of arrogence. Do they think that others aren't challenged in funding thier world cup participation? Anyway, if they don't go but Australia and SA do, they lose Tri Nations revenue anyway and risk damaging thier brand. Nobody likes petulant spoilsports. I hope the ARU doesn't try to follow suit with this tactic.

Parihaka
28 Sep 11,, 22:20
Are northern hemisphere teams getting a cut from the gate in this world cup?

No. The IRB takes the money and 'uses it to sponsor Rugby in developing nations'. The NZRB is making a loss of about 30m on the RWC which the NZ government is covering.

Parihaka
28 Sep 11,, 22:26
Sounds like piss and wind, and poor form to boot. The NZRU is a not for profit organisation with the objective of promoting Rugby in NZ, just like the other unions are. Not every activity is supposed to make a profit and whinging about $10m every 4 years, which isn't much in the context of the NZ rugby industry, is ridiculous. It is the biggest event in Rugby and there is no way the AB's wouldn't show. Playing these games during your own tournament, which NZ begged to get, smacks of arrogence. Do they think that others aren't challenged in funding thier world cup participation? Anyway, if they don't go but Australia and SA do, they lose Tri Nations revenue anyway and risk damaging thier brand. Nobody likes petulant spoilsports. I hope the ARU doesn't try to follow suit with this tactic.


Australian rugby boss John O'Neill (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10755144) backs a stand by his New Zealand counterpart on a possible boycott of the 2015 Rugby World Cup because of cost.

New Zealand Rugby Union chief executive Steve Tew says the All Blacks may skip the 2015 tournament unless the International Rugby Board changes the rules on sponsorship.

Last night Australian Rugby Union chief executive O'Neill said leading nations faced cumulative losses of almost $100 million in cup years.

"The current economic model is unsustainable and unacceptable."

The Australian union was A$16 million ($20 million) worse off because the Rugby World Cup caused "massive disruption" because of "no inbound tests from Northern Hemisphere teams and a curtailed Tri-Nations season".

Tew said the New Zealand union was set to take a $13.2 million hit from the current tournament because of regulations which did not allow teams to have any association with their sponsors during the six-week event.

The All Blacks are sponsored by Steinlager, but because the World Cup is backed by Heineken the team cannot be seen with a Steinlager logo.

Tew told the English newspaper the Guardian that this rule "cannot carry on".

"But frankly the prospects of us going to England in 2015 under the current model are very slim. We cannot sign on for an event that costs us so much money."

Keven Mealamu said it would be "devastating" if the All Blacks were unable to go to the tournament in four years.

"The country and the players would be devastated if the All Blacks weren't at the World Cup," the hooker said.

Both the NZRU and the IRB, when contacted by the Herald, were quick to point out that the issue of the IRB's sponsor rules was not new and that Tew was a member of the ruling body's executive council.

The IRB declined to comment on Tew's comments about the All Blacks being pulled from the 2015 tournament.

But it said an already planned review of the Rugby World Cup commercial model would go ahead after this year's tournament.

"The IRB is already driving forward that process and is committed to working in collaboration with member unions to ensure a model that continues to balance the strategic needs of unions with the ability to provide the IRB with the financial platform for the development of a sport that has witnessed an 18 per cent growth in participation since the last Rugby World Cup in France," it said.

Former All Black coach Laurie Mains backed Tew's stance on Radio Sport: "I think the IRB has a responsibility to listen to those major unions because they are actually what make the World Cup tick. It's not your minnows, who are getting all the money, that make it tick - it is the Big Five."

It's a concerted effort by SANZAR, expect the Sth Africans to weigh in soon.
We understand that it has to be played at this time to suit northern hemisphere timetables because of television rights but to be asked to forgo sponsor revenue as well as game and tournament revenue is ridiculous. There's going to be a push on refereeing standards post event as well. The players standards have again lifted but the refs if anything are going backward.

Aussiegunner
29 Sep 11,, 00:55
It's a concerted effort by SANZAR, expect the Sth Africans to weigh in soon.
We understand that it has to be played at this time to suit northern hemisphere timetables because of television rights but to be asked to forgo sponsor revenue as well as game and tournament revenue is ridiculous. There's going to be a push on refereeing standards post event as well. The players standards have again lifted but the refs if anything are going backward.
I half expected the ARU to follow the Kiwis on this, but am disappointed never the less. I think using that money to develop rugby outside of the traditional nations is good for the game as a whole, as it gives the fans a real competition to look forward to other than the tri nations. Lets face it, Australia and New Zealand would most likely just spend it poaching all the best twelve year olds from the Pacific Islands. These clowns don't realise they are in the entertainment industry and having a few nations using commercial power to win at all costs isn't entertaining. If this happens I might boycott the tri nations and spend the money to somewhere tropical, to see the Pacific Cup. I might even use the internet to give others the same idea.

Parihaka
29 Sep 11,, 01:34
I half expected the ARU to follow the Kiwis on this, but am disappointed never the less. I think using that money to develop rugby outside of the traditional nations is good for the game as a whole, as it gives the fans a real competition to look forward to other than the tri nations. Lets face it, Australia and New Zealand would most likely just spend it poaching all the best twelve year olds from the Pacific Islands. These clowns don't realise they are in the entertainment industry and having a few nations using commercial power to win at all costs isn't entertaining. If this happens I might boycott the tri nations and spend the money to somewhere tropical, to see the Pacific Cup. I might even use the internet to give others the same idea.

What they're asking for is the rights to display sponsors outside the main event. When it's official RWC, only RWC sponsors are displayed but when it's IV's off the paddock outside of official press conferences then they can display their own sponsors. No loss to the RWCC, just a chance to pull back some of the loss the Southern hemisphere currently makes. Seems reasonable to me given SANZAR takes a $100m loss every 4 years and every Northern Hemisphere competition doesn't.

Parihaka
01 Oct 11,, 12:28
WOOT! Go Tonga



WELLINGTON: France were left reeling after a shock 19-14 defeat by Tonga in their final pool match on Saturday that nevertheless saw Les Bleus advance to the quarter-finals of the World Cup.

"Never has qualification tasted as bitter as this," blasted under-fire coach Marc Lievremont, who has all week played down allegations of rifts between management and the players in the French camp.

"What we say tonight and throughout the week will be very important.

Read more: 'Bitter' qualification for France after upset (http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/bitter-qualification-for-france-after-upset-20111001-1l2vw.html#ixzz1ZWbCxpte)

Gotta say England looked a bit average too, if the Scots had gone for tries instead they'd have taken it

crooks
01 Oct 11,, 13:23
Dang, very dissapointed for Scotland, thought they played better over the game in it's entirety, just ran out of steam in the last 10 minutes (poor defending let the try happen too).

Absolutely brilliant performance by Tonga, if anything should have won by more - fire in the belly and never looked threatened, presumably this will seriously hurt France's rankings (and possibly get them into the top 10?). Australia did the business against Russia (who've been extremely brave and impressive this tournie imo) which means Italy-Ireland tomorrow is a do or die for both teams. Nick Mallett's been talking good trash this week, it's a natural justice thing because if Ireland don't beat Italy they really don't deserve a quarter final place. I'm hopeful that they will, but it will be a tough auld slog even if they do.

Parihaka
01 Oct 11,, 15:03
Dang, very dissapointed for Scotland, thought they played better over the game in it's entirety, just ran out of steam in the last 10 minutes (poor defending let the try happen too).

Absolutely brilliant performance by Tonga, if anything should have won by more - fire in the belly and never looked threatened, presumably this will seriously hurt France's rankings (and possibly get them into the top 10?). Australia did the business against Russia (who've been extremely brave and impressive this tournie imo) which means Italy-Ireland tomorrow is a do or die for both teams. Nick Mallett's been talking good trash this week, it's a natural justice thing because if Ireland don't beat Italy they really don't deserve a quarter final place. I'm hopeful that they will, but it will be a tough auld slog even if they do.
You'll roll em no worries

crooks
01 Oct 11,, 18:52
You'll roll em no worries

I'm hoping so but have such bad memories of the last WC - granted Argentina were just starting to show what a great team they could be (and Ireland played awful the whole way through) but it makes you shy about being bullish. Italy have had a good tournie and come back well from the defeat by Australia. Ireland have been great thus far after a shaky start but you never know when the wobbles could come back. I think Ireland will be too classy and have too much firepower (both in attack and defence) for them but freakier things have happened. There's less of a skill gap between Ireland and Italy than France and Tonga say.

Also I was talking to a kiwi today, is it really (as he claims) a national tick to refer to BOD as Brian 'I almost doyed' O'Driscoll:biggrin:? Long memories!

Parihaka
02 Oct 11,, 00:00
I'm hoping so but have such bad memories of the last WC - granted Argentina were just starting to show what a great team they could be (and Ireland played awful the whole way through) but it makes you shy about being bullish. Italy have had a good tournie and come back well from the defeat by Australia. Ireland have been great thus far after a shaky start but you never know when the wobbles could come back. I think Ireland will be too classy and have too much firepower (both in attack and defence) for them but freakier things have happened. There's less of a skill gap between Ireland and Italy than France and Tonga say.

Also I was talking to a kiwi today, is it really (as he claims) a national tick to refer to BOD as Brian 'I almost doyed' O'Driscoll:biggrin:? Long memories!

Long memories? You Irish have the bible, we have the Rugby Almanac.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsXJyDHFKn0
We can forgive him for going off, after all his shoulder was dislocated and he is from the northern hemisphere but to besmirch Saint Tana of Lower Hutt doth be beyond the pale.

Parihaka
02 Oct 11,, 05:01
Ooohhh, watching the Baby Blacks in their first run out, vs Canada.

Extra interest because of Slade needing to step up with Carter out, they look a bit feckless but still, happy parihaka, very happy.

Parihaka
03 Oct 11,, 01:19
I'm hopeful that they will, but it will be a tough auld slog even if they do.

Told ya! Gotta say that TMO decision 'no interference in in-goal area' was a shocker. If tackling a man without the ball when he's going in to score the try isn't foul play, what the hell is.....

bigross86
03 Oct 11,, 06:36
That Welsh side has some great kids playing for them. I wouldn't be surprised to see them go all the way through to the finals

Aussiegunner
03 Oct 11,, 08:28
What they're asking for is the rights to display sponsors outside the main event. When it's official RWC, only RWC sponsors are displayed but when it's IV's off the paddock outside of official press conferences then they can display their own sponsors. No loss to the RWCC, just a chance to pull back some of the loss the Southern hemisphere currently makes. Seems reasonable to me given SANZAR takes a $100m loss every 4 years and every Northern Hemisphere competition doesn't.

I don't have a problem with them asking for review of the commercial arrangements, in particular I think the ban on using footage for news reporting off Fox is ridiculous and counter productive to the game. However, I do have a big problem with them threatening to leave. It has the whole "we are such a big drawcard that you should do what we want, or else" attitude to it. It is just arrogent.

What SANZAR need to remember is that the World Cup started before this sport even became professional. I would suggest that without the premier event it would never have reached the popularity that it has now and they wouldn't be collecting the big dollars. You can't "lose" what you never would have made.

As for whinging about it clipping the Tri Nations, remember that it also completely wipes out the Southern Hemisphere spring tours of the North. Somebody here has already stated how much the Northern Nations make out of this, so that is a big amount of revenue for them to forego.

NZ also needs to remember that while the NZ government might have had to stump up $30m for the tournement, you have had a lot of visitors as a result spending a hell of a lot of money in the NZ tourism industry. It is also an opportunity to showcase NZ to the World and get return or word of mouth visits. These sort of statements leave a sour taste amongst foriegners which is likely to be counterproductive to that. Not very smart.

Aussiegunner
03 Oct 11,, 08:32
I hope so, I've got $10 on it and another $10 on an Australia/Wales final. Up to a $245 profit if it comes off the way I plan :-).

crooks
03 Oct 11,, 20:06
Told ya! Gotta say that TMO decision 'no interference in in-goal area' was a shocker. If tackling a man without the ball when he's going in to score the try isn't foul play, what the hell is.....

Yeah, I'll have to bow to your superior predictor gland, that said Irish are big against tempting fate by boasting...beforehand! Was a great second half performance, the tries (the above ticked me off as did the fact that Bowe's other one wasn't knocked forward) were great, loved Keith Earls finish in the last one, could really see it meant something to him. That video had me in stitches btw, Pat Kenny 'our next guest is lucky to be here...' - it was dirty beyond belief but the melodrama post game made it much worse for him imo.

All in all Ireland are playing great and getting better with every game. Wales have serious form but I think we can take them - there's a great balance of leadership (O'Driscoll, O'Connell et al) and gifted yoof (O'Brien and Murray spring to mind). Ireland are very familiar with their gameplan (and their manager, who still holds a major grudge - they couldn't stop the grandslam in 2009, would be nice to beat them again just to see his post-mortem:biggrin:). Either way should be a great game, If Wales win I'll be rooting for them big time, would be nice to see a Celt lifing the cup!

Aussiegunner
04 Oct 11,, 04:45
Does the World Cup need the All Blacks? Everyone is replaceable - IRB
By Christopher Chang
8:42 AM Tuesday Oct 4, 2011
IRB chief executive Mike Miller has hit back at NZRU boss Steve Tew's threat to pull the All Black's out of the 2015 Rugby World Cup, saying "everyone is replaceable."

Tew revealed last week that the NZRU is set to take a $13.2m hit from the current tournament, which could jeopardise their place at the next World Cup. But when asked on Radio Sport this morning whether the tournament needed New Zealand, Miller responded:

"Does the World Cup need the All Blacks? It would be good for the All Blacks to be there."

When pressed again, Miller said: "Everyone is replaceable."

He said the timing of Tew's comments was "not brilliant" and that the NZRU boss should be aware of the governing body's financial situation.

"He's on the IRB Council, he's been involved in all of the decisions that we've made for the last five or six years, so he knows what's going on. It's the IRB Council that decides where the money goes," Miller said.

"Of course he doesn't talk about the $12m that the NZRU gets from the IRB over the four-year cycle.

We know what the issues are, which is why we had a conference on the Economics of the Game earlier this year, which Steve Tew was at.

"The conference said after Rugby World Cup, we'd look at the outcomes and whether we'd need to change the model on the commercial rules, the distribution of funds, and on the timing of the World Cup."

Tew suggested last week that soccer's Fifa World Cup had much more lenient commercial rules, but Miller rejected the idea that All Blacks sponsors that were not associated with the Rugby World Cup couldn't capitalise on the event.

"Have a walk around Auckland if you think that the All Blacks' sponsors aren't still being able to be involved with the All Blacks."

Miller pointed out the money the IRB makes gets distributed to all of the unions, including New Zealand.

"Why did they choose to truncate the Tri-Nations? They didn't have to do that, they could have found another solution. That's not the IRB's doing, that's what they decided to do. They lost money because of that.

"I have huge sympathy for everyone. It's a very tough economic situation at the moment, all of the unions are suffering. We are looking at the issues, we are working with the New Zealand Union, the Australian Union and everyone else and they ultimately will decide whether they get exactly what they want - it depends on whether they can persuade the other council members."

The IRB has also come under heavy criticism during the Rugby World Cup over the scheduling of matches and fining Samoa for an inappropriate mouth guard. Miller defended the IRB's treatment of second-tier teams.

"We don't care about the minnows? If that was the case why have we invested tens of millions of dollars over the past five or six years in order to try and make them more competitive? Why did we open up and pay for a high performance centre in Samoa? Why do we pay for the Pacific Rugby Cup, the Pacific Nations Cup, why do we give them coaches, trainers, why do we provide them with gyms with analysis tools?"

He said it is very difficult to create a schedule which is equal for everyone when there are uneven pools of five.

"The tens of millions of dollars that we invest in the so-called minnows comes from Rugby World Cup, from broadcasters who want to have the big games at the weekends. It's better than it was last time and we'll make it better next time.

"There's a simple answer. You can reduce it to 16 teams, then you'll have a more even schedule. But we wouldn't want to do that."
By Christopher Chang | Email Christopher

Does the World Cup need the All Blacks? Everyone is replaceable - IRB - Rugby World Cup - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10756401)

crooks
08 Oct 11,, 16:22
Well done to Wales and France on a couple of excellent wins. Have to say from an Irish perspective I'm very dissapointed, it was a funny auld game - Ireland took a majority of the posession, spent twice as much time in the Welsh 22 as vice versa and dictated the tempo for large parts of the game....but just didn't take the chances, though efficient Welsh defending helped. I think they lost it looking back in two moments, in the first half not clawing ahead when they were dominant towards the middle and end, and after conceeding the soft second try in the second half having pulled level. Couple in some shoddy mistakes and O'Brien did his best at running but the Welsh had a gameplan that worked and took the points when they had the ball. The team themselves did us proud, pride in our jersey and tradition, the jersey of Jackie Kyle and Willie John McBride is win, lose or draw what the fans want to see and they had it today and all through this tournie. They'll deservedly get a heros welcome in Dublin, Cork and Belfast.

I also feel somewhat sorry for England but were France up for it or what? They outplayed England all over the field and in truth the match looked (bar a miracle) finished at half-time. England actually battled back well and definitely won the second half but just couldn't do enough to overcome the cushion. Biggest thing that amazed me was the ridiculous amount of knock-ons from both teams but especially England, a ton of unforced errors that cost dearly in the end. On a decent day I think they would have the measure of France but world cup rugby is funny that way.

It'll actually be a great semi-final imo, both play the fastest rugby of the NH teams and I can just imagine the SH press going into overdrive about the demise or the traditional northern model as represented by England and Ireland or some other faux sagely dung:biggrin:. In any case looking forward to the other quarters as well, it's not quite clear who's going to win yet, though smart money still marginally says NZ.

dave lukins
08 Oct 11,, 17:50
^ I thought England didn't deserve anything but what they got. The passing and handling were abysmal and if we had a cup for giving away penalties we would be going home with the World Cup.

HKDan
09 Oct 11,, 08:47
I thought that South Africa outplayed Australia for most of the match, but looks like they are on their way home.

Bigfella
09 Oct 11,, 08:51
I thought that South Africa outplayed Australia for most of the match, but looks like they are on their way home.

Shows that you just have to take your chances. They had the chance to score tries & either couldn't or wouldn't. Despite being on the defensive for most of the game Australia was the only team to score a try. Hard to know what this all means. Either it will be the 'ugly win' Australia needs to propel it to a Cup Victory or proof that we are just not good enough. Hard to say.

Good news is bye bye springboks. Look forward to the usual excuses & whining (must be an umpiring decision they can blame).

bigross86
09 Oct 11,, 09:02
My condolences to all SA Rugby fans. But losing to the Wallabies? Seriously? :biggrin:

Aussiegunner
09 Oct 11,, 09:29
In a game of rugby the team with the best aggregate of skill, guts and fitness will win. Today the Wallabies left a lot of thier demonstrated skill in the locker room but triumphed over a skillful opponent on guts and fitness. Imagine what this team can do next week if they show up on the day with a bag full of skill!

Bigfella
09 Oct 11,, 09:41
In a game of rugby the team with the best aggregate of skill, guts and fitness will win. Today the Wallabies left a lot of thier demonstrated skill in the locker room but triumphed over a skillful opponent on guts and fitness. Imagine what this team can do next week if they show up on the day with a bag full of skill!

The point was made after the game that they really did fail in a good many areas & did a few things wrong yet still managed to win. The only real question is if they will bring their 'A' game against the All Blacks. If they do it will be a serious game. A repeat of this will probably mean a loss - I can't imagine we can shut out the Blacks in quite the same way.

HKDan
09 Oct 11,, 11:27
That wasn't a pretty win for the ABs, impressive Argentinian effort to hold them tryless as long as they did.

dave lukins
09 Oct 11,, 12:20
Missed the rugby as a bottle of whisky refused to leave until early hours. :rolleyes:

dave lukins
09 Oct 11,, 12:26
Shows that you just have to take your chances. They had the chance to score tries & either couldn't or wouldn't. Despite being on the defensive for most of the game Australia was the only team to score a try. Hard to know what this all means. Either it will be the 'ugly win' Australia needs to propel it to a Cup Victory or proof that we are just not good enough. Hard to say.

Good news is bye bye springboks. Look forward to the usual excuses & whining (must be an umpiring decision they can blame).


That wasn't a pretty win for the ABs, impressive Argentinian effort to hold them tryless as long as they did.

If you win it can be as ugly as sin. ;)

crooks
09 Oct 11,, 13:45
I thought South Africa were better - there is something to be said for a team that can stick in there but really the Springboks will rue throwing it away. They spend 3/4s of the game in Australian territory and had about a dozen penalties that weren't called (can somebody please explain the concept of "rolling away" to Pocock?). Good win for the ABs too, and Argentina showing the classy outfit that they are.

I think it'll be an NZ-Wales final though both semis should be great games.

dave lukins
09 Oct 11,, 19:04
^ Rolling away is an easy concept unless you have four seventeen stone monsters leaping all over you. :)

bigross86
09 Oct 11,, 22:57
That ref was a disgrace. What's worse? He lost the game for Australia and they bitched about it, but when he won the game for Australia and lost it for SA, the Aussies were silent as the grave

Complaining about the Ireland match (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10752598)

Not saying a word about the South Africa Match (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/8816349/Rugby-World-Cup-2011-Bryce-Lawrence-reduced-breakdown-to-a-farce-in-Australias-win-over-South-Africa.html)

If this ref calls the finals, it'll be almost as big a disgrace as the idiots reffing during the FIFA World Cup last year

Aussiegunner
10 Oct 11,, 02:34
That ref was a disgrace. What's worse? He lost the game for Australia and they bitched about it, but when he won the game for Australia and lost it for SA, the Aussies were silent as the grave

Complaining about the Ireland match (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10752598)

Not saying a word about the South Africa Match (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/8816349/Rugby-World-Cup-2011-Bryce-Lawrence-reduced-breakdown-to-a-farce-in-Australias-win-over-South-Africa.html)

If this ref calls the finals, it'll be almost as big a disgrace as the idiots reffing during the FIFA World Cup last year

That is BS on multiple levels. An article in that splendidly pro-Australian publication, the New Zealand Herald, quoting a few people complaining about the reffing in the Ireland game does not remotely reflect the overwhelming consensus here, that Ireland played well, we played badly and they deserved to win that game. Christ, even the people he quoted congratulated Ireland on the win.

As for the 'silence on the bad reffing' on last nights game, when was the last time you heard a winning team saying "that was unfair, we had the ref onside"? I can't seem to remember such an occasion. In any case, Lawrence made some big stuff ups against Australia too, not the least allowing de Villiers to run out early and stuff up O'Connors conversion attempt without calling a re-kick. Any of his bad decisions might have changed the game either way.

However, the only fact at the end of the game is the scoreboard and that the South Africans failed to convert all that territory and possession and territory into the ONE try that they needed to win. They failed largely because the Wallabies defended with a determination that I haven't seen in a game by ANY team EVER in a game of rugby. They deserve the credit for their wins without the bleatings of the "Monday's experts".

bigross86
10 Oct 11,, 02:47
Hell, I don't care, I'm more than happy for the All Blacks to meet Australia in the semis.

However you look at it, there are plenty complaints about that ref, from both sides and from both games.

Aussiegunner
10 Oct 11,, 02:49
The point was made after the game that they really did fail in a good many areas & did a few things wrong yet still managed to win. The only real question is if they will bring their 'A' game against the All Blacks. If they do it will be a serious game. A repeat of this will probably mean a loss - I can't imagine we can shut out the Blacks in quite the same way.

They are definately entering this game as the underdogs and Quade Cooper in particular needs to pick up his game if they are to win. I think all the animosity from the public of his homeland got to him last night, he looked like a lost puppy from kick off to the final whistle ... though his try saving tackle was a saving grace.

Parihaka
10 Oct 11,, 07:52
I thought that South Africa outplayed Australia for most of the match, but looks like they are on their way home.

Indeed they did, but there's eighty minutes to find out and SA couldn't do the business in those eighty minutes.
After the Argie game we're going to eat the Aussies alive but I approach Wales with trepidation.

Parihaka
10 Oct 11,, 07:56
That ref was a disgrace. What's worse? He lost the game for Australia and they bitched about it, but when he won the game for Australia and lost it for SA, the Aussies were silent as the grave

Complaining about the Ireland match (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10752598)

Not saying a word about the South Africa Match (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/8816349/Rugby-World-Cup-2011-Bryce-Lawrence-reduced-breakdown-to-a-farce-in-Australias-win-over-South-Africa.html)

If this ref calls the finals, it'll be almost as big a disgrace as the idiots reffing during the FIFA World Cup last year
the whole reffing thing has been a debacle. Paddy O'Brien should take a prolonged vacation and alow someone in who is actually going to lift things to a professional level. Hell, import league refs from Australia, it'll only take em 5 minutes to learn the rules and they can at least run the length of the paddock.

Parihaka
10 Oct 11,, 07:59
They are definately entering this game as the underdogs and Quade Cooper in particular needs to pick up his game if they are to win. I think all the animosity from the public of his homeland got to him last night, he looked like a lost puppy from kick off to the final whistle ... though his try saving tackle was a saving grace.
One can but hope. We love aussies, especially since the Chch earthquake when your people were on the ground as soon as ours were and if anything went harder, but QC is a kiwi. He's just gonna get shyt no matter what for donning the green and gold.

Aussiegunner
10 Oct 11,, 08:20
Indeed they did, but there's eighty minutes to find out and SA couldn't do the business in those eighty minutes.
After the Argie game we're going to eat the Aussies alive but I approach Wales with trepidation.
Boy oh boy with all this premature chicken counting across the ditch, there will be some extremely red faces if our young lads pluck another upset out of thier arses.

Aussiegunner
10 Oct 11,, 08:33
One can but hope. We love aussies, especially since the Chch earthquake when your people were on the ground as soon as ours were and if anything went harder, but QC is a kiwi. He's just gonna get shyt no matter what for donning the green and gold.

Interesting that I've never heard of all those Pacific Island players being victimised by thier countryfolk for playing for the AB's, Oz, England and elsewhere. Still, we are talking about a country where death threats against officials and even thier own players have been recorded, when the AB's have been 'wronged' (remember Alan Hewson in the eighties? The English ref after the defeat by the French last WC?). QC bought a fair bit of flak on himself by being too cocky, but in a nation which has perspective about it's sport his treatment would never the less be considered poor. As it is this is NZ, so he has probably gotten off lightly so far. I hope he pulls himself together and breaks four million hearts with the winning full time drop goal next week.

Parihaka
11 Oct 11,, 05:50
Interesting that I've never heard of all those Pacific Island players being victimised by thier countryfolk for playing for the AB's, Oz, England and elsewhere. LOL, that old canard. Newsflash: Just because someone has a Samoan or Tongan name doesn't mean they were born in Samoa or Tonga, any more than someone who has a European name was born in Europe. I can think of Mils Muliaina who came over as a 'rugby import' at the grand old age of two to settle with his folks in Southland, care to name anyone else?

Parihaka
11 Oct 11,, 05:51
Boy oh boy with all this premature chicken counting across the ditch, there will be some extremely red faces if our young lads pluck another upset out of thier arses.
Hey, we're used to it but I just really can't see where your forwards are going to establish dominance.

Aussiegunner
11 Oct 11,, 06:47
Hey, we're used to it but I just really can't see where your forwards are going to establish dominance.

Like I said, we are definately the underdogs. I just think the pre-match certainty of a win that New Zealanders are going into this game with is setting themselves up for a big fall if it doesn't come off. Remember that we've already beaten you this year with the same forward pack.

PS, I normally don't get this ferocious about sport. Rugby is the main game I really like and being an ex-Kiwi my standard action at All Black/Wallabies games has been to sing both national anthems, enjoy the game while supporting the Wallabies, then if the AB's win I would graciously say that the best team won on the day.

That all changed last year at a match where the Kiwi supporters booed the Australian national anthem, which I related here. I have no time for that sort of poor sportsmanship from any nation - even Australia - we have seen a LOT of it reported from New Zealand, particularily towards Australians, during this tournament. New Zealanders can't keep saying "We love Australians" and then go ahead and spit on Australians who go to the rugby, abuse those supporters in the street and conduct a national scale bullying campaign against a 23 year old upstart, just because he was born in NZ. I was born in New Zealand and came to Australia when I was 14 and I expect that my former countryfolk will respect my choices about where my first loyalty lies. The same should go for Cooper.

The only occasion where I have personally heard Australians behaving that badly towards rivals is the Queensland League crowds against New South Wales and the Queenslander in me is just as ashamed of that behavior as the Kiwi in me is ashamed of the behavior that we have seen during this tournement I know it happens in other sports too, but I've never heard it from an Aussie rugby crowd. That is why I pray for the Maroons to get a kick in the arse from NSW next tournament, just as I pray for the All Blacks to get one now. In short, I have no time for bad sportsmanship from anybody.

What's more, to treat your biggest inbound tourism market like that during a recession ain't smart at all. I keep saying to myself that I want to go back to New Zealand for a visit and a looksie, but the vibe I get about the NZ attitude towards Ozzies just makes me think I would like to spend my money elsewhere. I think that is a shame because NZ is a beautiful country and I want it to prosper, but why should we help it if we are just as likely as not to cop a earful of grief?

Aussiegunner
14 Oct 11,, 05:24
Video: THE ALL BLACKS' DOWNFALL (http://video.news.com.au/2152702652/THE-ALL-BLACKS-DOWNFALL)

bigross86
14 Oct 11,, 10:27
That was bloody brilliant!!!

dave lukins
14 Oct 11,, 11:17
Video: THE ALL BLACKS' DOWNFALL (http://video.news.com.au/2152702652/THE-ALL-BLACKS-DOWNFALL)

Excellent. Had a good chuckle at this.

Parihaka
15 Oct 11,, 09:52
Wales vs France, wet track which will favour Wales, can France produce more than one good game?

Parihaka
15 Oct 11,, 10:03
Heh, the ref was singing along to "I got a Feeling"

Parihaka
15 Oct 11,, 10:23
Opps, Warburton red carded, there goes the game. 60 minutes of set piece, how exciting:rolleyes: Bugger

Parihaka
15 Oct 11,, 11:46
Well, kudos to the Welsh and I think I'm fair in saying the lesser team won that game.

Bigfella
15 Oct 11,, 11:48
Not a great game. Wales were the better team, but one man short & missing another top player due to an early injury they just didn't have enough to get past France. If this is the best the French have then they are just turning up for second place next week. pity, Wales would have been a worthy finalist.

dave lukins
15 Oct 11,, 12:03
Opps, Warburton red carded, there goes the game. 60 minutes of set piece, how exciting:rolleyes: Bugger

The sending off is debatable and hugely contested by all the pundits. Max was a yellow. However missing 8 points didn't help either. At the end of the day it's the scores on the doors that matter. I was waiting for a drop kick at the final Welsh flurish (a la Wilkinson) but it never came.

Bigfella
15 Oct 11,, 12:09
The sending off is debatable and hugely contested by all the pundits. Max was a yellow. However missing 8 points didn't help either. At the end of the day it's the scores on the doors that matter. I was waiting for a drop kick at the final Welsh flurish (a la Wilkinson) but it never came.

Dave,

The Aussie commentators, two of them ex-wallabies, pretty much called the send off from the moment it happened. They weren't surprised at all. Wales had their chances & just couldn't take them.

Parihaka
15 Oct 11,, 12:16
The red card was technically the right decision but I can think of a couple of previous incidents in the pool matches where it wasn't applied. The fault lies with the rules, not the ref, but it was an odd time to become literal in applying them. I'm gutted for the Welsh and the final will be a massive anti-climax no matter whether NZ or Aus goes through. Unless the French take some super juice the real final will be tonight. To damn nervous to talk about it but in 22 hours......

crooks
15 Oct 11,, 12:28
Absolutely gutted for Wales, there was only one team playing rugby out there and chasing the ball - France not only didn't go for tries, they didn't even try to go for tries (or anything else - looked utterly rudderless). Wales down to 14 masked what was a very poor French perfomance.

Two things that stood out for me was Stephen Jones unwillingness the go for the drop goals at crucial points (then kicking it poorly when he did - the conversion wasn't that hard and would have given them the lead) and the terrible lineouts in the third quarter. When Wales got their shit together they had France well on the backfoot, Halfpenny missed by inches.....it's going to be very hard to watch that again if you're Welsh, what heartbreak. On the sending off Rolland was totally right imo, one of the Irish commentators made the case for "the occasion" but another made the totally valid point that Leinster cup final to WC final the rules are the same. It was poor judgement from Warburton and Wales paid dearly for it (as well as Wynn Jones going off, he's been crucial to the scrum for years).

Very dissapointed for Wales, the better team did indeed lose.

dave lukins
15 Oct 11,, 12:32
Dave,

The Aussie commentators, two of them ex-wallabies, pretty much called the send off from the moment it happened. They weren't surprised at all. Wales had their chances & just couldn't take them.

The reverse happened here and in NZ studios where the pundits and commentators are all ex world players and not one said it was a sending off offence. They did have chances especially in the last couple of minutes where someone should have drop-kicked, they had chance after chance and if you don't take them then you reap the consequences.

dave lukins
15 Oct 11,, 12:38
The red card was technically the right decision but I can think of a couple of previous incidents in the pool matches where it wasn't applied. The fault lies with the rules, not the ref, but it was an odd time to become literal in applying them. I'm gutted for the Welsh and the final will be a massive anti-climax no matter whether NZ or Aus goes through. Unless the French take some super juice the real final will be tonight. To damn nervous to talk about it but in 22 hours......

Aus have lost Beale due to injury.

Parihaka
15 Oct 11,, 13:00
The other side of the draw will be no spa-pool of idolatrous luxury. Three of the four teams likely to make the quarters (England, France and Wales) have beaten every one of the Tri-nations teams in the past and they can do it again. My pick for the team to make the finals is Wales, based on what I saw against South Africa they have the edge on the others. I'm even going to put $20 on it, its worth it at 5 to 1.

Hell, you were damn close

Parihaka
15 Oct 11,, 13:19
Aus have lost Beale due to injury.

Yeah but with Pocock in fine form and both McCaw and Reid walking wounded....

Bigfella
15 Oct 11,, 13:25
Yeah but with Pocock in fine form and both McCaw and Reid walking wounded....

NZ should still stroll home at Eden Park, but Rugby is a funny old game.....especially when it comes to the ABs & WCs.

Parihaka
15 Oct 11,, 13:27
NZ should still stroll home at Eden Park, but Rugby is a funny old game.....especially when it comes to the ABs & WCs.

This pretty much sums it up



All Blacks must pulverise Pocock

By Donal Lenihan

Saturday, October 15, 2011

IF THERE is one thing the All Blacks appreciate more than any other aspect of the game, it is the importance of controlling the breakdown.

This is even more important when playing against Australia given the manner in which the Wallabies structure their attacking game. If they are denied front-foot ball with Quade Cooper playing so flat, then it becomes difficult for him to run and put players into space.

The challenge for New Zealand tomorrow is that when David Pocock plays, Australia invariably dominate this crucial sector.

In my view, Pocock had already surpassed the great Richie McCaw as the game’s preeminent open side even before the All Black skipper was laid low with a foot injury that has impacted on his influence at this World Cup. The fifth metatarsal of McCaw’s right foot has now surpassed the torn adductor longus tendon of Dan Carter’s left groin as the most talked-about part of the human anatomy in New Zealand. With their outstanding No 8 Kieran Reid also less than 100% fit, the most potent sector of this New Zealand side is struggling. Just as well, then, that the third member of the back row, Jerome Kaino — the only All Black to play in all 400 minutes of their campaign so far — is in brilliant form. To win tomorrow all three must lead and dominate the breakdown.

There is only one way to deal with the effectiveness of the Wallabies in this crucial area and that is to get physical. I expect to see the All Black forwards flood the contact area with Pocock the primary target. You have to zone in on him and blow him off the ball. The problem is he has such a low centre of gravity and is so strong, that’s easier said than done. I shared an elevator with him in our hotel in Wellington last week — he is a mixture of Charles Atlas, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Popeye after a ton of spinach. If New Zealand are to survive this test, then they must somehow eliminate the skill set that Pocock brings to the table.

BOTH sides have issues at half-back and to win a World Cup your out-half pivot has to be a special talent. Think back to the past champions and some of the greatest names in the game have directed the winners — Grant Fox, Michael Lynagh, Joel Stransky, Stephen Larkham, and Jonny Wilkinson. With Dan Carter crocked and his understudy Colin Slade only lasting thirty minutes in the lead role, New Zealand have issues. Enter Aaron Cruden who starts a game for New Zealand for only the second time. His previous start was also against Australia in the 2010 Tri Nations when at just under 13 stone, he was physically run over by the Australian back row. After that, the New Zealand management drew a line through him but now, after an amazing sequence of events, he finds himself centre stage, directing the multi-talented All Black back line in a World Cup semi-final. The pressure on him is enormous and much will depend on how the young man copes with the expectations of a nation.

It is a help that he is surrounded tomorrow by four of his fellow Hurricanes back line, with Piri Weepu inside him calling the shots and familiar faces in Ma’a Nonu, Conrad Smith and Cory Jane outside. However, the Hurricanes had a very poor Super 15 season with their backs especially poor. Weepu, who was not even in the starting team at the outset of the tournament, has now become the main man, directing traffic at the base, taking the goal kicks, the line kicks and the restarts. Australia will seek to pressure both him and Cruden big time.

The problem for the Wallabies is that Quade Cooper has been all over the place in this tournament and had a shocker against South Africa last weekend. New Zealand know how flaky he can be and will go after him. However he spends so much time hiding at full back, it is difficult to get a hold of him. Capable of brilliance from broken play, there remains a question mark as to whether you can win a World Cup with someone as unpredictable and scattered as Cooper at No 10. Defensively he is poor and Australia will continue with the ploy of positioning Digby Ioane at out half from all New Zealand set plays. It cannot help a young Wallaby midfield set up when you constantly have that chopping and changing inside. To win this one, either Cooper or Cruden will have to seize the initiative and lead the way. It is a big ask for Cruden especially.

NEW ZEALAND so badly want and need to win this World Cup that it is suffocating them. Circumstances have dictated that if they succeed in beating their arch enemy (the New Zealand media continually refer to the Australians as the convicts), and lift the Webb Ellis trophy they will have done it the hard way. Dan Carter and Richie McCaw are the twin totems of the side and one is already gone while injury has reduced the other to a pale shadow of himself. It is the equivalent of Ireland attempting to take on the Wallabies without Paul O’Connell and Brian O’Driscoll.

The entire nation is in a state of panic at the thought of losing to Australia in Eden Park and the pressure on the All Blacks is immense. This will test their courage, belief and conviction to the full. Even worse for them, they face an opposition which, despite on average losing two in every three contests between the sides, retain a belief they can always beat the All Blacks. Not every side has that inner strength taking on the All Blacks. Of course, the Wallabies won last time out (25-20 in Brisbane last August) so history is kind of against them.

However, these Wallabies are a resilient bunch. How else could you account for the manner with which they have coped with a crippling injury list, that defeat by Ireland a few weeks ago and the manner in which they prevailed over the Springboks with a crocked scrum, a dodgy line-out and Quade Cooper having a nightmare at out-half? They survived for one reason — raw courage and a refusal to be beaten. Their commitment in defence, the manner in which they threw life and limb into thwarting every Springbok attack and, admittedly, a decent dollop of luck, just about saw them over the line. Time will tell just how much that physical battering has taken out of them but the one thing you know is that this Australian side will never give up. That is what makes this so difficult to call.

Read more: All Blacks must pulverise Pocock | Irish Examiner (http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/all-blacks-must-pulverise-pocock-170744.html#ixzz1aqgqC3iH)

crooks
16 Oct 11,, 01:05
Well it's midnight here but will be up early to watch the game - good luck to both sides, may the best team win!

dave lukins
16 Oct 11,, 01:27
Well it's midnight here but will be up early to watch the game - good luck to both sides, may the best team win!

The winner of that match will be the Champions;)

crooks
16 Oct 11,, 01:34
We winner of that match will be the Champions;)

Probably. That said you can never rule France out - if it's the dire France then it'll be a crap final, but if it's the anarcho-socialist "lock the man who calls himself our manager in a box and make up our own tactics" France like the one against England they'll put up a daycent fight. I was hoping for a Wales-NZ final, the final would be so engrossing to both nations twould be a day all the sheep of the world could graze peacefully:biggrin:.

Aussiegunner
16 Oct 11,, 03:54
Hell, you were damn close

Close, but no new beach rod for me this summer :(

Anyway, the send off was fair call. A spear tackle is one of the most dangerous things a player can do on a rugby field and the refs should be judging them harshly. Onwards and upwards .... losing Beale is a shame for us but Adam-Ashley Cooper is no slouch so I reakon we are in good shape to put up a good match. Hopefully with the AB forwards being paranoid about Pocock like that article suggests, they will be distracted from trampling Genia like the Springboks did a fair few times last week.

Parihaka
16 Oct 11,, 04:00
Close, but no new beach rod for me this summer :(

Anyway, the send off was fair call. A spear tackle is one of the most dangerous things a player can do on a rugby field and the refs should be judging them harshly. Onwards and upwards .... losing Beale is a shame for us but Adam-Ashley Cooper is no slouch so I reakon we are in good shape to put up a good match. Hopefully with the AB forwards being paranoid about Pocock like that article suggests, they will be distracted from trampling Genia like the Springboks did a fair few times last week.
Then there's the history: the Wallabies haven't won on Eden park since '86: the AB's have never beaten the Wallabies in a world cup: the AB's consistently choke: tension is rising, no matter who wins the final is going to be an anti-climax
:insane:

bigross86
16 Oct 11,, 07:12
I'm up early, I know where I can watch the game at a pub in Tel Aviv at 10 AM, and I'm going to be busy all day with little to no access to the internet. Life sucks...

ambidex
16 Oct 11,, 10:38
All Blacks 11-Australia 6. Its exciting.

HKDan
16 Oct 11,, 10:48
All Blacks 11-Australia 6. Its exciting.

Damn right it is.

Bigfella
16 Oct 11,, 11:03
The ABs would have to stop dead to lose this now. Not saying they are incapable of a world class choke if we actually string together some quality Rugby (which we haven't done much of so far), but they have been near flawless so far. Not hopeful.

dave lukins
16 Oct 11,, 11:23
17-6 AB. Outplaying Aus at the moment. Pressure pressure pressure.

HKDan
16 Oct 11,, 11:50
Dominant All Blacks from the first minute. Cruden handles the pressure well, huge efforts from a number of Kiwis. Australia gave up too many penalties, Weepu made them hurt.

Parihaka
16 Oct 11,, 12:07
Holy fucken jesus. Kudos Australia, nothing to be ashamed of there, and finally it was a game of two halves.

Aussiegunner
16 Oct 11,, 12:47
Well done NZ, we were comprehensively outplayed.

Parihaka
16 Oct 11,, 12:51
Calmed down now. That was an awesome game, everyone on both teams brought it. Rather than pick the good players I've got to outline the less than good. Cruden kicked 3 or 4 times in the second half when he should have taken it in but this is only his third test and he handled the pressure well. Sonny Bill was a prat but fortunately by then the Wallabies had to score three points a minute to come back. Cooper had a bad first 30 minutes and got the usual barracking but fought back and had a magnificent second half. He's earned my respect anyway, and the crowd seemed to think so too. Can't pick fault with anyone else. Blinder of a game.

Parihaka
16 Oct 11,, 13:14
Best post match comment goes to Peter Fitzsimmons. "In the first 20 minutes it looked like the AB's would run away with it, but the Wallabys wouldn't lie down. As for the final, GO AUSTRALASIA"

dave lukins
16 Oct 11,, 18:34
twould be a day all the sheep of the world could graze peacefully:biggrin:.

Very good :biggrin::biggrin:

Aussiegunner
16 Oct 11,, 22:57
The reality is that the Wallabies haven't found any form against tier one teams this entire tournament. People go on about being beaten in the set piece, but the backs have given away the opportunities they have had with stupid mistakes and by kicking the ball away. Take James O'Conner, he has barely had an impact beyond his kicking, because they haven't given him any ball. Its a shame, not only as a supporter but because they are a truly entertaining team when they play well. This time they bumbled through the pool, beat themselves senseless in the quarter and threw away tries and penalties in the semi. Based on current form I reckon they are looking at fourth.

Parihaka
17 Oct 11,, 04:36
Of course I hope you all realize that if we do win next week we as a national are going to be totally insufferable for the next four years? Just saying is all :)

Aussiegunner
17 Oct 11,, 05:30
Of course I hope you all realize that if we do win next week we as a national are going to be totally insufferable for the next four years? Just saying is all :)

Do that too much and we'll have to remind you that:

1: You have never won a tournament away, where you didn't have a 4 million people conducting psychological warfare on the AB's behalf;

2: That you are crap at every other sport; and yet

3: It has taken 12 years for you to catch up with the Wallabies in World Cup wins.

Just saying is all :).

PS, I'll support the All Blacks against the Rainbow Warrior/Nuclear bombers UNLESS I see evidence of the "Anybody but Australia" attitude coming out of the crowd in the Bronze Medal test. If that happens I'll be saying that that "Australiasian Final" comment by that commentator was BS and will be backing the Frogs.

Parihaka
17 Oct 11,, 05:50
Do that too much and we'll have to remind you that:

1: You have never won a tournament away, where you didn't have a 4 million people conducting psychological warfare on the AB's behalf;

2: That you are crap at every other sport; and yet

3: It has taken 12 years for you to catch up with the Wallabies in World Cup wins.

Just saying is all :).

PS, I'll support the All Blacks against the Rainbow Warrior/Nuclear bombers UNLESS I see evidence of the "Anybody but Australia" attitude coming out of the crowd in the Bronze Medal test. If that happens I'll be saying that that "Australiasian Final" comment by that commentator was BS and will be backing the Frogs.

I HOPE the crowd will be supporting the Wallabies but in all likelyhood it'll be an even split cause we like the Welsh as well. What I don't want to see is any more barracking of Cooper: as I said, and in contradiction to your own media pundits, he earned his stripes in the second half.

Aussiegunner
17 Oct 11,, 06:40
I HOPE the crowd will be supporting the Wallabies but in all likelyhood it'll be an even split cause we like the Welsh as well. What I don't want to see is any more barracking of Cooper: as I said, and in contradiction to your own media pundits, he earned his stripes in the second half.

I don't mind who they support but any booing will permenantly harden my heart. As for Cooper, he didn't lose the game for them and made some good contributions, but his own loud mouth is making him a magnet for blame. In particular the public attempts at contract negotiations will have left a lot of people dark. It will be a hard lesson that I hope he learns well.

bigross86
17 Oct 11,, 09:47
I'll be rooting for the All Blacks all the way. As someone who learned about rugby by watching the All Blacks in 2008-9, if (when?) they win next week it will be the perfect gift for a beginning avid All Blacks supporter. In the Australia-Wales game I don't really have a favorite, I like the Welsh for being the underdogs, but in all reality, I'm just hoping to see some good rugby

Bigfella
17 Oct 11,, 10:04
Calmed down now. That was an awesome game, everyone on both teams brought it. Rather than pick the good players I've got to outline the less than good. Cruden kicked 3 or 4 times in the second half when he should have taken it in but this is only his third test and he handled the pressure well. Sonny Bill was a prat but fortunately by then the Wallabies had to score three points a minute to come back. Cooper had a bad first 30 minutes and got the usual barracking but fought back and had a magnificent second half. He's earned my respect anyway, and the crowd seemed to think so too. Can't pick fault with anyone else. Blinder of a game.

Pari,

I think you are being a bit too graciuos in victory. Australia certainly did play well & with spirit in parts, but we also sabotaged any chance we might have had against an AB side in top notch form with a lot of errors & poor judgement. That is to take nothing away from the ABs. Some of those mistakes were the result of relentless pressure & some damned fine attacking rugby, but some were unforced & unecessary. I was very proud that we fought back after being blitzed early & when Cooper kicked that field goal after a beautiful buildup I had hopes we might really make a game of it. Unfortunately the backs couldn't string it together against a quality defence. I agree that Cooper proved his character in the second half. Like most of the team, he fought hard in an increasingly hopeless cause. We can hold our heads up for fighting hard, but not for giving ourselves our best opportunity to win.

On the final I am torn. The ABs are the best team in the tournament & France don't deserve to be there. NZ also has a poor WC record for such a great Rugby nation. On the other hand, France have little to show for producing some of the most enjoyable, if erratic, rugby in the world over the past 30 years. The nation that produced Serge Blanco probably deserves something. On balance I will be going for the neigbours, but if France really do play well enough to beat you blokes I will be OK with that too.

Parihaka
17 Oct 11,, 11:18
I don't mind who they support but any booing will permenantly harden my heart.

Well, can't help that, there's bound to be, especially given the international nature of the crowd.
I haven't watched a match in twenty years in any country including your own fair land where there hasn't been regular booing from sections of the crowd so you might as well harden your heart now.

dave lukins
17 Oct 11,, 12:17
Of course I hope you all realize that if we do win next week we as a national are going to be totally insufferable for the next four years? Just saying is all :)

I suspect you will, as a Nation, be insufferable for the next four years if you loose ;)

Bigfella
17 Oct 11,, 14:36
I suspect you will, as a Nation, be insufferable for the next four years if you loose ;)

Actually Dave, the really sad thing is that no one will either know or care. Once in a while Australians let Kiwis think that we care about their sporting ups & downs, but realistically we don't...even when they beat us. Sort of like that lonely kid down the street we played with because we felt sorry for them or our parents told us to.

There are still Kiwis going on about an underarm ball bowled 30 years ago. The vast majority of Australians who even knew we played a Rugby game last night are already over it. Different worlds.

Sad but true.

dave lukins
17 Oct 11,, 15:01
Actually Dave, the really sad thing is that no one will either know or care. Once in a while Australians let Kiwis think that we care about their sporting ups & downs, but realistically we don't...even when they beat us. Sort of like that lonely kid down the street we played with because we felt sorry for them or our parents told us to.

There are still Kiwis going on about an underarm ball bowled 30 years ago. The vast majority of Australians who even knew we played a Rugby game last night are already over it. Different worlds.

Sad but true.

I remember that 'incident'. The stiff-uppers at Lords must have needed oxygen.:eek:

Parihaka
17 Oct 11,, 17:54
Actually Dave, the really sad thing is that no one will either know or care. Once in a while Australians let Kiwis think that we care about their sporting ups & downs, but realistically we don't...even when they beat us. Sort of like that lonely kid down the street we played with because we felt sorry for them or our parents told us to.

There are still Kiwis going on about an underarm ball bowled 30 years ago. The vast majority of Australians who even knew we played a Rugby game last night are already over it. Different worlds.

Sad but true.

What's that high pitched whining noise I hear?

http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/Images/2011/10/17/2011101795214158734_20.jpg

crooks
17 Oct 11,, 22:06
Bahahahaha and so it begins....the Antipodean steel cage internet forum death match...none shall leave alive:biggrin:.

In any case what seemed to be the problem for me was while totally outclassed by a stronger attacking side the Wallabies just didn't make enough of it when they went forward. They actually played some great rugby, only problem was they were unable to get points on the board (and the penalties all went NZs way). Wales v Australia should be cracking but without Warburton I actually think the Ozzies could do it.

For the final I'm rooting for the ABs - in virtually any Northern v Southern game that isn't the Lions I'd root for the Nordies but the ABs have been flawless this tournie and France really don't deserve to be there imo. If it was Wales I'd have roared to the rafters for them but against France my meritocratic side goes for the Kiwis.

Aussiegunner
18 Oct 11,, 04:21
What's that high pitched whining noise I hear?

http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/Images/2011/10/17/2011101795214158734_20.jpg

It's probably the 767 from Australia landing with the Kiwi League team, which disgraced itself with an 8 try to 1 loss against the Kangaroo's just before the rugby semi-final test. I bet THEY'RE glad the All Blacks won the rugby ...

Aussiegunner
18 Oct 11,, 04:26
Actually Dave, the really sad thing is that no one will either know or care. Once in a while Australians let Kiwis think that we care about their sporting ups & downs, but realistically we don't...even when they beat us. Sort of like that lonely kid down the street we played with because we felt sorry for them or our parents told us to.

There are still Kiwis going on about an underarm ball bowled 30 years ago. The vast majority of Australians who even knew we played a Rugby game last night are already over it. Different worlds.

Sad but true.

In contrast to your experience, which is understandable because Victorians don't really care about Rugby, the only weekend sporting match that anybody can talk about in Queensland and I suspect NSW is the Wallabies loss. Nobody even cares about the fact that we handed the Kiwis their arse's on a platter in the League just before the semi.

For me that highlights that we are indeed in different worlds to them, but for a different reason. Kiwis are over the moon when they win at the one game they are good at, while Aussies are miserable when they lose at one of the games that they care about, even if they are very successful in others. Goes to show setting your expectations low is the true path to happiness ... ;-).

Aussiegunner
18 Oct 11,, 04:35
Well, can't help that, there's bound to be, especially given the international nature of the crowd.
I haven't watched a match in twenty years in any country including your own fair land where there hasn't been regular booing from sections of the crowd so you might as well harden your heart now.

I've never been to a Wallabies Rugby game where there was booing from Aussie supporters aside from instances of poor reffing decisions or foul play, and I've never seen another tournament in any sport where local spectators pursued a rival team in games with third parties and booed them. The closest I've seen to that here was a hairy, loud mouthed ocker who looked like Kevin Bloody Wilson in the England/Scotland game, at the pub where I was watching it, barracking for Scotland and calling the English "Pommy bastards" ... much to the amusement of the English and everybody else in the room. He gave them their dues when they won though and he voiced disgust when Tim Horan and David Campese came on an ad on Fox and said we should support Italy against Ireland, as that would win us the pool. It was said because Rupert payed them to do so for commercial reasons no doubt, but I think they should be ashamed of whoring themselves out like that. I definately didn't see any Aussie supporters in the red/white and green the next week.

Bigfella
18 Oct 11,, 09:37
What's that high pitched whining noise I hear?

http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/Images/2011/10/17/2011101795214158734_20.jpg

Probably the yarpies still complaining about umpiring.

Bigfella
18 Oct 11,, 09:44
In contrast to your experience, which is understandable because Victorians don't really care about Rugby, the only weekend sporting match that anybody can talk about in Queensland and I suspect NSW is the Wallabies loss. Nobody even cares about the fact that we handed the Kiwis their arse's on a platter in the League just before the semi.

For me that highlights that we are indeed in different worlds to them, but for a different reason. Kiwis are over the moon when they win at the one game they are good at, while Aussies are miserable when they lose at one of the games that they care about, even if they are very successful in others. Goes to show setting your expectations low is the true path to happiness ... ;-).

I was exaggerating a bit...but not that much. We will probably be over this by the time the Kiwis recover from their hangovers next week. They would have spent 4 more years moping. Hell, most Australians barely even knew ther was a WC on until the AFL finals finished. No matter why our trans-tasman neighbours are being insufferable, we won't notice it.

Just curious, does anyone actually care about League tests? Really? Always struck me as being marginally above the pretend Australia/Ireland 'international rules' games - in both cases the international version is not considered the peak level of the sport. If I'm going to care about men with no necks bending over & getting close & personal with other men with no necks then Union seems the way to go.

Parihaka
18 Oct 11,, 10:25
I've never been to a Wallabies Rugby game where there was booing from Aussie supporters aside from instances of poor reffing decisions or foul play,

Sharpe stunned by home crowd boos - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-06-03/sharpe-stunned-by-home-crowd-boos/2690900)
Australian cricket crowds are too unruly Ľ The Roar - Your Sports Opinion (http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/02/01/unruly-cricket-crowd-needs-addressing/)
Ya even boo yer own teams so climb off your high horse. I haven't watched a game yet where aussie crowds didn't boo: if you haven't heard that your either deaf or from another planet

Aussiegunner
18 Oct 11,, 10:52
Sharpe stunned by home crowd boos - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-06-03/sharpe-stunned-by-home-crowd-boos/2690900)
Australian cricket crowds are too unruly Ľ The Roar - Your Sports Opinion (http://www.theroar.com.au/2011/02/01/unruly-cricket-crowd-needs-addressing/)
Ya even boo yer own teams so climb off your high horse. I haven't watched a game yet where aussie crowds didn't boo: if you haven't heard that your either deaf or from another planet

Booing our own well paid professional sportspeople when they play like amateurs and waste our money, is an entirely different proposition to pursuing an opposing team who you are HOSTING from one end of your country to another, and booing them in every match they play ... even when it isn't against your national team. The latter behavior borders on obsessive and I've never heard of it happening anywhere in the World apart from in NZ against the Aussies.

You should read a few comments on the Sydney Morning Herald website on the stories from the game. The Aussies are saying that the All Blacks played brilliantly but that the Kiwi's have taken things too far. Even many Kiwi's are saying the treatment of Aussies has an utter disgrace. As for the Aussie rugby tourism trade a couple of times a year, I think you lot have stuffed that up right royally until memories fade of this. People aren't going to go to matches where they are abused to the point where they feel intimidated because they want to wear their team's colours. I know I certainly won't be.

As for Aussie cricket crowds, you won't hear me defending them. You seem to have forgotten that at the beginning of this discussion I explicitly said that I'll barrack for any team opposing my team, when my fellow fans are being arseholes. I look down from my "High Horse" on anybody who is a poor sportsman.

Aussiegunner
18 Oct 11,, 10:56
I was exaggerating a bit...but not that much. We will probably be over this by the time the Kiwis recover from their hangovers next week. They would have spent 4 more years moping. Hell, most Australians barely even knew ther was a WC on until the AFL finals finished. No matter why our trans-tasman neighbours are being insufferable, we won't notice it.

Rugby supporting states will be disappointed for a while more than a week, but you are right that we won't see the spike in psychological breakdowns that NZ health professionals fear if the AB's don't pull this thing off. We would also have been disappointed at that performance no matter who we lost too. In fact aside from the issue of particularly bad Kiwi behavior this time, an Aussie team that plays well but gets beaten by the AB's would be well supported back home, because we know they are damn good.


Just curious, does anyone actually care about League tests? Really? Always struck me as being marginally above the pretend Australia/Ireland 'international rules' games - in both cases the international version is not considered the peak level of the sport. If I'm going to care about men with no necks bending over & getting close & personal with other men with no necks then Union seems the way to go.

In Australia it isn't considered to be as important as the State of Origin or the Grand Final, but then it isn't just a kick and giggle event like the International Rules either. The Kiwis can beat us at League on their day and so can the Poms, so naturally it is taken reasonably seriously. The main issue with League that stop it being a truely international games is that only Australia, New Zealand, England and PNG take it seriously, with France and Fiji having some interest. That is why the WC rugby generates more heat ... apart from the fact that when played well Rugby is the far more entertaining game.

bigross86
18 Oct 11,, 11:31
I think I can sum up Aussiegunner's problem in one sentence which I learned in New Zealand when I was learning about Rugby: "I support 2 teams: The All Blacks and anyone playing Australia"

dave lukins
18 Oct 11,, 16:09
I think I can sum up Aussiegunner's problem in one sentence which I learned in New Zealand when I was learning about Rugby: "I support 2 teams: The All Blacks and anyone playing Australia"

We have the same when it comes to international football. The English usually support any team from our backyard. However, Scotland never ever support England. They would rather support a team led by Pol Pot of Stalin rather than wish the English good luck. All because they found out that haggis is really English :biggrin:

Aussiegunner
19 Oct 11,, 01:04
We have the same when it comes to international football. The English usually support any team from our backyard. However, Scotland never ever support England. They would rather support a team led by Pol Pot of Stalin rather than wish the English good luck. All because they found out that haggis is really English :biggrin:

Fighting to claim the credit for haggis? More proof that all those Indians who have opened restaurants in the UK have done it's people a grand service ;-)

dave lukins
19 Oct 11,, 01:24
Fighting to claim the credit for haggis? More proof that all those Indians who have opened restaurants in the UK have done it's people a grand service ;-)

A grand service indeed. Indian food has been top of the food ratings for many years. You will find more people eating in an Indian restaurants, especially after a few pints, than you will in an English restaurant. However if you invited an Indian, straight from India, to sample the food they would not know what they were eating. I'm sure that is the same for most countries.

Doktor
19 Oct 11,, 01:27
Dave,

Can you tell me what's on the menu in English restaurant, besides fish and chips :biggrin:? I never saw one abroad. German neither ;)

dave lukins
19 Oct 11,, 01:53
Dave,

Can you tell me what's on the menu in English restaurant, besides fish and chips :biggrin:? I never saw one abroad. German neither ;)

The menu varies greatly from restaurant to restaurant and from area to area and county to county. There is fine dining where a meal will cost hundreds of pounds to a village pub (90+% serve meals) where the price will be £5-10. You can go from lobster and kobi beef to a meat pie. There is no Country wide 'style' as every area will have their own specialty. As for Germany, some of the best meals I ever ate was in Germany especially my favorite Jaegerschnizel.

Parihaka
19 Oct 11,, 02:19
Booing our own well paid professional sportspeople when they play like amateurs and waste our money, is an entirely different proposition to pursuing an opposing team who you are HOSTING from one end of your country to another, and booing them in every match they play ... even when it isn't against your national team. The latter behavior borders on obsessive and I've never heard of it happening anywhere in the World apart from in NZ against the Aussies. .

I have not seen a game in Australia hosting the All Blacks in the last twenty years where that has not happened. Booing the Haka, singing over the Haka, booing kicks for goal, you name it, you do it.
The only thing that is obsessive here is your constant claims that such behaviour only happens here. You've spent the entire thread deriding anything to do with New Zealand and brought any comment I've made round to your obsession on our behaviour. News Flash: support whomever you care to, we don't care, just find something else about the rugby to talk about or shut up FGS.

Parihaka
21 Oct 11,, 22:11
Well Barnes was a revelation, why the hell wasn't he playing in the semi final?

Bigfella
22 Oct 11,, 00:35
Well Barnes was a revelation, why the hell wasn't he playing in the semi final?

Only saw parts of the game, but I found myself wondering something similar. If we'd attacked like that against you blokes.....you would still have won, but with a few more heart flutters.

I have a suspicion tonight's game won't be anywhere near that good (get out clauses: 1. ABs massively choke 2. The spirit of Blanco takes over the frogs AND the ABs choke).

crooks
22 Oct 11,, 00:47
If the good France turn up it'll be a good game - in the group game against NZ they genuinely looked like they couldn't care less about winning and still managed to put 17 pass the All Blacks (better than anyone else has managed).

On form and sheer skill it should be NZs though - even without Carter the best team in the world, and would be deserving winners. Best of luck with that Pari, hope I haven't jinxed it :biggrin:.

dave lukins
22 Oct 11,, 00:59
Whāia te iti kahurangi Ki te tūohu koe, me he maunga teitei

Pursue excellence – should you stumble, let it be to a lofty mountain

Parihaka
22 Oct 11,, 03:04
Whāia te iti kahurangi Ki te tūohu koe, me he maunga teitei

Pursue excellence – should you stumble, let it be to a lofty mountain

Kia ora Dave, kia ora:)

Aussiegunner
22 Oct 11,, 06:04
Only saw parts of the game, but I found myself wondering something similar. If we'd attacked like that against you blokes.....you would still have won, but with a few more heart flutters.

I have a suspicion tonight's game won't be anywhere near that good (get out clauses: 1. ABs massively choke 2. The spirit of Blanco takes over the frogs AND the ABs choke).

Unfortunately I got my timezones wrong and arrived at the pub 22 minutes in, but it was a good game. It was great to see O'Connor get some ball, he made a brilliant break with the player he offloaded to being unlucky not to score a try. The Welsh played well too, the last bit of work they did to score the try in extra time was the best bit of team rugby I have seen in the entire tournament.

Re Barnes, he is a very good footballer but he doesn't have Cooper's magic when things are going right. IMHO that is why Deans stuck with Cooper, when we are playing the AB's we need something special and Cooper can be. It is also why he was so heavily targeted .... despite being called a lightweight he wouldn't have generated so much angst if that was really the case. It was a high risk, potentially high payoff strategy that didn't work this time. Oh well, onwards and upwards.

Parihaka
23 Oct 11,, 09:58
Awesomeness, let the game begin

bigross86
23 Oct 11,, 10:48
The All Blacks are definitely not playing up to their full potential. Kicking has been abysmal and that try was more luck and skill. They definitely need to improve their game in the second half

Bigfella
23 Oct 11,, 10:50
Only 5-0 at half time. Will this be another choke? The ABs are clearly the better theam, but the French are certainly capable of scoring. The ABs need to get on their bikes & do some scoring.

Bigfella
23 Oct 11,, 11:35
The ABs are really struggling. if France score again this game could be over.

Parihaka
23 Oct 11,, 11:36
OMG, the buggers are going to choke again, ya wouldn't read about it:rolleyes:

bigross86
23 Oct 11,, 11:40
The Kiwis are playing horribly. Such a bloody shame

ambidex
23 Oct 11,, 11:44
All blacks are Champions

Congrats

bigross86
23 Oct 11,, 11:45
All Blacks!!! Brilliant!!! Shitty playing, but the final score is what matters

Bigfella
23 Oct 11,, 11:46
Bloody hell! that was tense. Better team won, but France made a game of it. If Trinh-Duc had slotted that penalty it might have been so different. Lucky for the ABs he was almost as off line as they were. Congrats NZ. You've had a rough year. Enjoy!

bigross86
23 Oct 11,, 11:51
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9F8nh3MvTc

Because if the entirety of Eden Park is gonna sing this, we should join in!!!

Parihaka
23 Oct 11,, 11:53
:eek::red::grump::slap::tankie:




:insane:

:Dancing-Banana:

bigross86
23 Oct 11,, 11:56
Bloody hell, Graham Henry has the strongest bloody accent in the world. Can barely understand a word he's saying! :biggrin:

Parihaka
23 Oct 11,, 12:21
Bloody hell, Graham Henry has the strongest bloody accent in the world. Can barely understand a word he's saying! :biggrin:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a0z9ZcSwPQ

Bigfella
23 Oct 11,, 12:39
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a0z9ZcSwPQ

Pretty much summarizes the next week...or two...or perhaps more across the ditch. Have fun.

crooks
23 Oct 11,, 15:26
Congratulations NZ - certainly didn't make it easy for themselves but France had an excellent second half. Well deserved overall, and furthermore congratulations on hosting an excellent, enjoyable tournament. Onwards to an Irish win in 2015:biggrin:.

dave lukins
23 Oct 11,, 17:17
Not the runaway game that everyone expected. Too close for comfort but a win is a win and that's what count. Congratulations NZ...Condolťances ŗ la France and thanks for a good game.

Parihaka
23 Oct 11,, 23:42
I was thinking last night the AB's were grasping at every chance to throw it away but having watched it again the French simply played an excellent game to the very best of their abilities. Vive le France...

burp.

bigross86
24 Oct 11,, 00:00
The French did play a brilliant game, and the Kiwis played a sub-par game. Everyone expected the French to roll over and die and were expecting a repeat of their match from the houses phase. The French did the exact opposite and the Kiwis couldn't recover. Hell, even the Kiwi try was not real skill, it was more luck, having intercepted the French lineout so close to their try line and rushing through before the French defense could do anything about it.

I already mentioned the abysmal kicking, right?

Aussiegunner
24 Oct 11,, 04:17
Hell, even the Kiwi try was not real skill, it was more luck, having intercepted the French lineout so close to their try line and rushing through before the French defense could do anything about it.

I have to disagree with that. Winning against the throw is a tough call and the move that led to the try looked like a bit of well practiced innovation to me. I reckon it was a tournament winner and will have changed the way rugby is played, in the reverse situation of an attacking line out nobody will contest again now that that trick is out of the bag. That gives the attacking team an even greater advantage.

Aussiegunner
24 Oct 11,, 04:22
France, BRILLIANT GAME!!! I was cheering you from the time you told the IRB officials to stick their bullmerde "Don't approach the Haka" regulation up their fat arses and faced the All Blacks down. You only lost by the difference between a penalty kick and a conversion from virtually the same position. Based on performance in the Tournament the All Blacks deserved the win, but you were the better team for this game. C'est la vie.

For the All Blacks a congratulatory pat on the head is in order ... it is nice to see you catch up after 12 years in the Mainland's World Cup Shadow. I will look forward to the next 24 years of away games ;-).

And on a final note, what a friggin' awesome tournament from the likes of Wales, Ireland, Argentina, Tonga, Samoa, the USA and Russia! As much as the World Cup formula might need a tweak here and there, I reckon the IRB's long term strategy of developing the game away from it's traditional top nations is a winner for those spectators who like a real contest.

gunnut
24 Oct 11,, 20:10
I caught the end of this game on NBC. I see some similarities between rugby and football (American). There seems to be a line of scrimmage, lateral passes, running, place kicking, punt (not sure if that's the right word), even the shape of the ball is similar.

Football has more forward passes for a faster game. It wasn't always the case. Football started with laterals and runs just like rugby.

Anyhow, congrats to the All Blacks. They and all rugby players look like a bad ass bunch.

dave lukins
24 Oct 11,, 21:28
I caught the end of this game on NBC. I see some similarities between rugby and football (American). There seems to be a line of scrimmage, lateral passes, running, place kicking, punt (not sure if that's the right word), even the shape of the ball is similar.

Football has more forward passes for a faster game. It wasn't always the case. Football started with laterals and runs just like rugby.

Anyhow, congrats to the All Blacks. They and all rugby players look like a bad ass bunch.
You miss out the hundredweight of padding in the American game. :rolleyes:

gunnut
24 Oct 11,, 21:30
You miss out the hundredweight of padding in the American game. :rolleyes:

Yeah...football would be more interesting if no one wore any paddings. It would be like watching auto races between cars without seatbelts.

Parihaka
24 Oct 11,, 22:22
I caught the end of this game on NBC. I see some similarities between rugby and football (American). There seems to be a line of scrimmage, lateral passes, running, place kicking, punt (not sure if that's the right word), even the shape of the ball is similar.

Football has more forward passes for a faster game. It wasn't always the case. Football started with laterals and runs just like rugby.

Anyhow, congrats to the All Blacks. They and all rugby players look like a bad ass bunch.
To be honest you didn't see much of a game, although purists would disagree. If you get a chance watch a tri-nations (quad-nations with Argentina coming on board?) next year about this time.

dave lukins
24 Oct 11,, 23:50
Yeah...football would be more interesting if no one wore any paddings. It would be like watching auto races between cars without seatbelts.

You could have it in a Coliseum and have a real blood bath. Losers get thrown to the lions. :biggrin:

Aussiegunner
25 Oct 11,, 04:57
I caught the end of this game on NBC. I see some similarities between rugby and football (American). There seems to be a line of scrimmage, lateral passes, running, place kicking, punt (not sure if that's the right word), even the shape of the ball is similar.

Football has more forward passes for a faster game. It wasn't always the case. Football started with laterals and runs just like rugby.

Anyhow, congrats to the All Blacks. They and all rugby players look like a bad ass bunch.

Lots of Americans don't realise that the USA is actually the reigning Olympic Champion in Rugby, they won in 1920 and 1924 before the sport was scrapped from the games. It is just as well for the rest of us that you invented NFL because you wanted a quisessentially American game, or the rest of the World wouldn't have a show against a 300 million strong nation of rugby fanatics! We would have had to insist that you compete in the World Cup on a state by state basis ;-).

Anyway, as I have said I have the utmost respect for the US team from their performance in this tournament. They are mainly drawn from second string college athletes who weren't good enough for NFL, so they are always going to be at a disadvantage, but they turn up, play their hearts out and act like winners even when they lose. They scored 2 tries against the Wallabies this tournament, not easy against a top rated team, and gave the Irish and Italians an even bigger run for their money. The buggers can tackle too, they hit like NFL players so the influence has obviously carried over!