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View Full Version : Sons of Guns- Discovery Channel Series: Opinions?



ace16807
22 Jul 11,, 16:01
A new series called "Sons of Guns" appeared on Discovery channel earlier this year and is into its second season this summer. It's basically about Red Jacket Firearms and how clients come to them about customizing firearms/the owners thinking of "new and ingenious" contraptions that will "revolutionize" firearms. For reference, here's the wiki page: Sons of Guns - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Guns)

I've only watched a handful starting this summer and have formulated a rather negative outlook on the show. While the owner probably knows his stuff and a significant portion of the show is a result of making it popular amongst general viewers, I can't help but notice how absurd the show is. While I am by no means a firearms expert, based off the few episodes I watched, I've noticed a few things that I can even call out as absurd:

1: Per "request" from the Baton Rouge sherriff's dept, they take a replica Thompson (which probably costs a hefty amount), replace all the wood components with synthetics, convert it to selective fire and stick a 4 sided rail on it. But why in the hell would you take a 90yr old weapon and try to convert it in this manner when you could just buy a .45 caliber submachine gun like the UMP for probably cheaper? Plus at the end they're pitching the amount of firepower and the high ROF it has. But why would SWAT ever need to empty a full mag of .45ACP into anyone/would the possibly expect to hit anything smaller than the side of a bardyard by using full auto?

2: The owner thinks that if he can merge the "accuracy of a sniper rifle at 1000 yds" and the "reliability of the AK" he'd make the best thing ever next to sliced bread. I didn't finish the episode but they talked about taking an AK(unclear what variant it was), replacing the barrel with a match grade barrel (which also looked to be in a .308, not 7.62mm so I half presume they rechambered it as well. I can't imagine a 7.62 hitting anything at 1000yds) and sticking a match grade trigger assembly on it along with some other stuff. The owner pitched this as being the type of weapon "our troops in small units" would carry around when deployed. Now like I said, I don't know too terribly much about firearms, but wouldn't rechambering/swapping to matchgrade components kill any sense of combat reliability? Plus the fact that there are better semi-automatic sniper rifles available to our troops now?

3: Last point I noticed was an active duty navy gunner requesting a "Dual-mounted m16" for better fire support. Why would you possibly do this? They end up having to make some water cooling system because the barrels would get so hot they'd cause premature detonations. But what's wrong with an m249/m240 for providing sustained fire. Hell, you can even stick two on a mount.

Basically they force firearms into roles they were never designed/shouldn't fill or present a new idea as the next best thing since sliced bread. Anyone have similar opinions of the show?

USSWisconsin
22 Jul 11,, 16:38
rube goldberg anyone?

I'll say this for them, they are having fun - but these weapons are really toys - for grownups (of course) - not military equipment.
Their purpose is similar to 500 hp autos - which are just for fun - not necessary for transportation.

highsea
22 Jul 11,, 21:04
A lot of it seems to be "see if it can be done" type of stuff.

They made a bright red AK variant for Mikey of American Chopper. He cut the shit out of his thumb first time he shot it. Not the kind of guy I like to think of with an AK for a toy, but hey.

I did like their suppressed 12 ga, thought that was pretty cool.

YellowFever
22 Jul 11,, 21:12
My mom always said that the only difference between a boy and a man is the quality of their toys.

This show proves that fact. :biggrin:

Personally, I wouldn't mind owning a Ducati with a 50cal mounted on each side with a hud for a windshield.

ace16807
22 Jul 11,, 21:18
I wouldn't mind if they said something along the lines of "We're just going to try to build this for kicks" or "someone submitted a request for us to do this to see if it's possible or not". I think I'm just irritated at the fact that a significant portions of the modifications/builds they do are disguised as either filling a practical role (ex: SWAT thompson) or something they conjured up as being insanely brilliant (AK sniper being the best thing ever and will be used by our troops etc). Why not just say "I wanna do this for sh!ts and giggles."

USSWisconsin
08 Aug 11,, 14:26
:biggrin:I'm waiting for the shoulder fired RPG TN nuke - or a pickup truck mounted 16" rifle, but I suppose a tripod mounted 8" RF (Rapid Fire), with a 30 rd mag would do...:tongue:

Chogy
08 Aug 11,, 14:51
They are much hated in the niche world of NFA (National Firearms Act) enthusiasts. NFA people collect transferable, historic machine guns, suppressors, and other exotic weapons. Two things jump out.

- They sometimes make it appear that any Joe-Bob can enter the store and exit with automatic weapons. They gloss over the federal paperwork required to do this legally.

- They make true craftsmen and machinists cringe a bit.

Probably similar to how custom chopper makers viewed "American Chopper."

USSWisconsin
08 Aug 11,, 16:33
They are much hated in the niche world of NFA (National Firearms Act) enthusiasts. NFA people collect transferable, historic machine guns, suppressors, and other exotic weapons. Two things jump out.

- They sometimes make it appear that any Joe-Bob can enter the store and exit with automatic weapons. They gloss over the federal paperwork required to do this legally.

- They make true craftsmen and machinists cringe a bit.

Probably similar to how custom chopper makers viewed "American Chopper."

I got that feeling too - Joe-Bob rambles in and buys a fully auto bazooka with a 40 rd banana mag full of frag ammo, then Joe-Bob's kindergarden son takes it to school, it falls out of his backpack and goes off, squirting the full mag in all directions in a few seconds - leveling the school and the surrounding neighborhood...

xinhui
08 Aug 11,, 17:55
after seeing a few ep.... I found those guys to be unprofessional. Not a way to run a business that is for sure. They don't generate much interest for me. (not that I watch much TV to start with)

Red Seven
09 Aug 11,, 02:48
I'm too serious about my weapons and their practical application to go in for gimmicks.

gunnut
10 Aug 11,, 01:03
A new series called "Sons of Guns" appeared on Discovery channel earlier this year and is into its second season this summer. It's basically about Red Jacket Firearms and how clients come to them about customizing firearms/the owners thinking of "new and ingenious" contraptions that will "revolutionize" firearms. For reference, here's the wiki page: Sons of Guns - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sons_of_Guns)

I've only watched a handful starting this summer and have formulated a rather negative outlook on the show. While the owner probably knows his stuff and a significant portion of the show is a result of making it popular amongst general viewers, I can't help but notice how absurd the show is. While I am by no means a firearms expert, based off the few episodes I watched, I've noticed a few things that I can even call out as absurd:

1: Per "request" from the Baton Rouge sherriff's dept, they take a replica Thompson (which probably costs a hefty amount), replace all the wood components with synthetics, convert it to selective fire and stick a 4 sided rail on it. But why in the hell would you take a 90yr old weapon and try to convert it in this manner when you could just buy a .45 caliber submachine gun like the UMP for probably cheaper? Plus at the end they're pitching the amount of firepower and the high ROF it has. But why would SWAT ever need to empty a full mag of .45ACP into anyone/would the possibly expect to hit anything smaller than the side of a bardyard by using full auto?

Exactly! A modern 45 caliber sub gun will be cheaper to run than a custom convert of a Thompson based on a 1920 design.



2: The owner thinks that if he can merge the "accuracy of a sniper rifle at 1000 yds" and the "reliability of the AK" he'd make the best thing ever next to sliced bread. I didn't finish the episode but they talked about taking an AK(unclear what variant it was), replacing the barrel with a match grade barrel (which also looked to be in a .308, not 7.62mm so I half presume they rechambered it as well. I can't imagine a 7.62 hitting anything at 1000yds) and sticking a match grade trigger assembly on it along with some other stuff. The owner pitched this as being the type of weapon "our troops in small units" would carry around when deployed. Now like I said, I don't know too terribly much about firearms, but wouldn't rechambering/swapping to matchgrade components kill any sense of combat reliability? Plus the fact that there are better semi-automatic sniper rifles available to our troops now?

Anything can be done...with enough money. There is accuracy, reliability, and affordibility associated with any firearm. You can have 2 out of the 3.



3: Last point I noticed was an active duty navy gunner requesting a "Dual-mounted m16" for better fire support. Why would you possibly do this? They end up having to make some water cooling system because the barrels would get so hot they'd cause premature detonations. But what's wrong with an m249/m240 for providing sustained fire. Hell, you can even stick two on a mount.

Yep, there's a reason why machineguns are much heavier than automatic rifles. German MG42 featured a quick change barrel because the high cyclic rate caused overheating problems. American doctrine called for slower, but more sustained fire. Browning M1919 was limited to around 600rpm for infantry use.

Bolting 2 M16 rifles together, add water cooling, and a mount, accomplishes about the same as a single M240 machinegun in fire support role, but at a much higher cost and less reliability.



Basically they force firearms into roles they were never designed/shouldn't fill or present a new idea as the next best thing since sliced bread. Anyone have similar opinions of the show?

It's a "let's see if this can be done" show. I don't watch it because it's not that practical.

zraver
10 Aug 11,, 02:07
Red Jacket did their 2010 birthday bash in Rison Arkansas as part of my son's step dads annual machine gun shoot.