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  • Dutch to abandon multiculturalism

    The Netherlands to Abandon Multiculturalism

    by Soeren Kern
    June 23, 2011 at 5:00 am
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    The Dutch government says it will abandon the long-standing model of multiculturalism that has encouraged Muslim immigrants to create a parallel society within the Netherlands.

    A new integration bill (covering letter and 15-page action plan), which Dutch Interior Minister Piet Hein Donner presented to parliament on June 16, reads: "The government shares the social dissatisfaction over the multicultural society model and plans to shift priority to the values of the Dutch people. In the new integration system, the values of the Dutch society play a central role. With this change, the government steps away from the model of a multicultural society."

    The letter continues: "A more obligatory integration is justified because the government also demands that from its own citizens. It is necessary because otherwise the society gradually grows apart and eventually no one feels at home anymore in the Netherlands. The integration will not be tailored to different groups."

    The new integration policy will place more demands on immigrants. For example, immigrants will be required to learn the Dutch language, and the government will take a tougher approach to immigrants to ignore Dutch values or disobey Dutch law.

    The government will also stop offering special subsidies for Muslim immigrants because, according to Donner, "it is not the government's job to integrate immigrants." The government will introduce new legislation that outlaws forced marriages and will also impose tougher measures against Muslim immigrants who lower their chances of employment by the way they dress. More specifically, the government will impose a ban on face-covering Islamic burqas as of January 1, 2013.

    If necessary, the government will introduce extra measures to allow the removal of residence permits from immigrants who fail their integration course.

    The measures are being imposed by the new center-right government of Conservatives (VVD) and Christian Democrats (CDA), with parliamentary support from the anti-Islam Freedom Party (PVV), whose leader, Geert Wilders, is currently on trial in Amsterdam for "inciting hatred" against Muslims.

    As expected, Muslim organizations in Holland have been quick to criticize the proposals. The Moroccan-Dutch organization Samenwerkingsverband van Marokkaanse Nederlanders, which advises the government on integration matters, argues that Muslim immigrants need extra support to find a job. The umbrella Muslim group Contactorgaan Moslims en Overheid says that although it agrees that immigrants should be better integrated into Dutch society, it is opposed to a ban on burqas.

    But polls show that a majority of Dutch voters support the government's skepticism about multiculturalism. According to a Maurice de Hond poll published by the center-right newspaper Trouw on June 19, 74 percent of Dutch voters say immigrants should conform to Dutch values. Moreover, 83 percent of those polled support a ban on burqas in public spaces.

    The proper integration of the more than one million Muslims now living in Holland has been a major political issue ever since 2002, when Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn was assassinated for his views on Muslim immigration, and since 2004, when Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh was stabbed to death for producing a movie that criticized Islam.

    Muslim immigration to the Netherlands can be traced back to the 1960s and 1970s, when a blue collar labor shortage prompted the Dutch government to conclude recruitment agreements with countries like Algeria, Morocco, Tunisia and Turkey. In the 1980s and 1990s, Muslims also arrived in the Netherlands as asylum seekers and refugees, mainly from Afghanistan, Bosnia, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan and Somalia.

    There are now an estimated 1.2 million Muslims in the Netherlands, which is equivalent to about 6 percent of the country's overall population. Moroccans and Turks comprise nearly two-thirds of all Muslims in the Netherlands. Most Muslims live in the four major cities of the country: Amsterdam, Rotterdam, The Hague and Utrecht.

    As their numbers grow, Muslim immigrants have become increasingly more assertive in carving out a role for Islam within Dutch society. For example, a documentary aired by the television program Netwerk in June 2009 reported that Dutch law was being systematically undermined by the growth of Sharia justice in the Netherlands.

    In December 2004, the Dutch Ministry of the Interior published a 60-page report titled From Dawa to Jihad. Prepared by the Dutch intelligence agency AIVD, the report says that the Netherlands is home to up to 50,000 radical Muslims whose key ideological aim is to target the Western way of life and to confront Western political, economic, and cultural domination.

    The report concludes that Dutch society is poorly equipped to resist the threat of radical Islam because of "a culture of permissiveness" that has become synonymous with "closing one's eyes" to multiple transgressions of the law.

    As for Interior Minister Donner, he has undergone a late-in-life conversion on the issue of Muslim immigration. In September 2006, while serving as justice minister, Donner provoked an outcry after saying that he welcomed the introduction of Islamic Sharia law in the Netherlands if the majority wants it. He also said Holland should give Muslims more freedoms to behave according to their traditions.

    After applauding Queen Beatrix for respecting Islam by not insisting that a Muslim leader shake hands with her during a visit to the Mobarak Mosque in The Hague, Donner said: "A tone that I do not like has crept into the political debate on integration. A tone of: 'Thou shalt assimilate. Thou shalt adopt our values in public. Be reasonable, do it our way.' That is not my approach."

    Fast forward to 2011 and Donner now says his government "will distance itself from the relativism contained in the model of a multicultural society." Although society changes, he says, it must not be "interchangeable with any other form of society."

  • #2
    Good for them! Geert Wilders is not scared to stand up and say what he believes
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

    Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

    Comment


    • #3
      After applauding Queen Beatrix for respecting Islam by not insisting that a Muslim leader shake hands with her during a visit to the Mobarak Mosque in The Hague, Donner said: "A tone that I do not like has crept into the political debate on integration. A tone of: 'Thou shalt assimilate. Thou shalt adopt our values in public. Be reasonable, do it our way.' That is not my approach."

      Fast forward to 2011 and Donner now says his government "will distance itself from the relativism contained in the model of a multicultural society." Although society changes, he says, it must not be "interchangeable with any other form of society."
      As fine an example of political whoredom would be hard to find. As for the Dutch rolling back multiculuralism, nice to see that even politicians can with time be forced to see the bleeding obvious.
      In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

      Leibniz

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      • #4
        If you want to work and live in some place you have to adopt yourself, not the other way around.
        No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

        To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tbm3fan
          The Netherlands to Abandon Multiculturalism

          by Soeren Kern
          June 23, 2011 at 5:00 am
          Source URL ?

          Originally posted by tbm3fan
          The report concludes that Dutch society is poorly equipped to resist the threat of radical Islam because of "a culture of permissiveness" that has become synonymous with "closing one's eyes" to multiple transgressions of the law.
          Yay, lets become even more like orthodox muslims eh

          Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
          As for the Dutch rolling back multiculuralism, nice to see that even politicians can with time be forced to see the bleeding obvious.
          What parameters can one use to assess the success of this move ?

          What are the expectations.

          This question is open to anybody btw.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
            Good for them! Geert Wilders is not scared to stand up and say what he believes
            We have the same situations in the UK but Geert Cameron hasn't the ba**s to admit it or do anything about it. I suspect it's the same over the rest of Europe.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by dave lukins View Post
              We have the same situations in the UK but Geert Cameron hasn't the ba**s to admit it or do anything about it. I suspect it's the same over the rest of Europe.
              I strongly suspect Geert wilders isn't going to do anything about it either. If you don't have any way to measure this then its likely populism for votes. He could do with more. Its not because 'geert cameron' hasn't the balls but its a false premise to begin with. Count yourself lucky to have a leader that isn't desperate to stoop this low.

              Watching these developments makes me think its just hot air :)

              I've seen this same crap in my country too and lo & behold we ain't too different than before they started with this. It's like ppl saying don't dress this way, dont listen to that music or read that book or say this or that.

              Just look at this nonsense..
              The proper integration of the more than one million Muslims now living in Holland has been a major political issue ever since 2002, when Dutch politician Pim Fortuyn was assassinated for his views on Muslim immigration, and since 2004, when Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh was stabbed to death for producing a movie that criticized Islam.
              The actions of two ppl and all of a sudden its multi-culturalism does not work.

              Comment


              • #8
                Link: The Netherlands to Abandon Multiculturalism :: Hudson New York

                Seems to me several things at work here.

                1. Learning the Dutch language isn't a priority
                2. A desire for their customs to supercede Dutch customs
                3. Their cultural laws to supercede Dutch law
                4. Dutch government help wanted for support/jobs despite above and despite taysir where it is permitted to adapt in a Western society as needed supposedly. Although it seems like a platitude to westerners.

                Pajamas Media » Top Muslim Cleric Urges Western Muslims to

                My personal opinion of the above: Fubar

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  What parameters can one use to assess the success of this move ?

                  .
                  It already has by reflecting the will of the majority.
                  In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                  Leibniz

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    ok, so the first objective of getting votes worked, but now what.

                    Look at the post before yours.

                    1. Learning the Dutch language isn't a priority
                    2. A desire for their customs to supercede Dutch customs
                    3. Their cultural laws to supercede Dutch law
                    Now in five years time or longer are these three parameters going to go away. No, because you can always tack on some more arbitrary criteria and say the problem is still there. The assertion itself is inherently unfalsifiable. There is no way to test it and thats the idea. The French have been doing this for decades now.

                    How the heck do you make ppl that don't want to mix do so ?
                    What % do these ppl make up in the pie ? They certainly are not in the majority.

                    What i find ironic is ppl say getting them to mix did not work so lets abandon any attempt by the state to help this happen in the first place.

                    I've said before if ppl want to keep to themselves in another country they're shooting themselves in the foot. They would be happier living in the country of their origin in the first place. Living in another country isn't really offering them much, maybe more money but what else.
                    Last edited by Double Edge; 04 Jul 11,, 09:52.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                      ok, so the first objective of getting votes worked, but now what.

                      Look at the post before yours.

                      1. Learning the Dutch language isn't a priority
                      2. A desire for their customs to supercede Dutch customs
                      3. Their cultural laws to supercede Dutch law

                      Now in five years time or longer are these three parameters going to go away. No, because you can always tack on some more arbitrary criteria and say the problem is still there. The assertion itself is inherently unfalsifiable. There is no way to test it and thats the idea. The French have been doing this for decades now.

                      How the heck do you make ppl that don't want to mix do so ?
                      What % do these ppl make up in the pie ? They certainly are not in the majority.

                      What i find ironic is ppl say getting them to mix did not work so lets abandon any attempt by the state to help this happen in the first place.

                      I've said before if ppl want to keep to themselves in another country they're shooting themselves in the foot. They would be happier living in the country of their origin in the first place. Living in another country isn't really offering them much, maybe more money but what else.

                      1. Learning the Dutch language isn't a priority
                      Make tests when granting citizenship and working permit. A lot of countries do that.

                      2. A desire for their customs to supercede Dutch customs
                      Can you put customs into law? Can't imagine someone riding a bike with wooden clogs, can you?

                      3. Their cultural laws to supercede Dutch law
                      Send them to court ;)

                      I say look at the Americans.
                      They needed to reach 2nd generation born in the USA to finally give up the roots (even native language) and form genuine American nation.
                      No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                      To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yea, I sympathize with the Dutch here. They have every right to protect their heritage. Just as the Americans have the right to Multiculture all they want. Up to them.
                        The question is, with Muslim oil countries making money, hand over fist,why don't Muslims immigrate to Muslim countries? Why do they feel the need to immigrate to heathen countries?
                        Don't listen to me, I'm a wack job.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          From what I know it is really weird to immigrate in UAE.

                          You need permit to work there, and the permit is not issued to you, but to the employer, which practically makes the immigrants slaves, leaving them no choice to choose jobs. If the employer doesn't like you, bam you go back to your country.

                          For KSA as I know you need tons of papers and permits if you want to visit it as a tourist, can't imagine how hard is to find a work there.

                          And from the latest uprisings we learned the wealth distribution is not well balanced, meaning those who work can hardly meet ends.
                          No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

                          To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Laser View Post
                            The question is, with Muslim oil countries making money, hand over fist,why don't Muslims immigrate to Muslim countries? Why do they feel the need to immigrate to heathen countries?
                            Because they don't get treated like second class citizens. This happens to be a contentious issue even in western countries but relatively speaking its a lot better.

                            In the arab world, they get treated like second class citizens or even worse because the natives themselves have not much freedom. What comes around goes around. This is why i look forward to the arab spring as a way of correcting these imbalances. Not going to be easy, nothing guaranteed but thats how it is.

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