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  • Pakistan Asks China to Build Naval Base in Nation

    A few concepts need to spell out -- "build" vs operate vs ownership vs control vs lease as those are loaded words


    Pakistan Asks China to Build Naval Base in Nation
    AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
    Published: 22 May 2011 10:46
    Pakistan Asks China to Build Naval Base in Nation - Defense News

    ISLAMABAD - Pakistan wants China to build a naval base at a deep-sea port in southwestern Baluchistan province, its defense minister said May 22, while also inferring that Washington was a fair-weather friend.
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    Ahmad Mukhtar, who accompanied Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani during a recent visit to China, said the request was made during the trip, when Pakistan thanked Beijing for constructing Gwader Port, on the Arabian Sea.
    Related Topics

    Americas
    Asia & Pacific Rim
    Naval Warfare

    "However, we would be more grateful to the Chinese government if a naval base was being constructed at the site of Gwader for Pakistan," Mukhtar said in a statement.

    The deep-sea port was around 75 percent financed by China, which Pakistan has been trying to draw in as a strategic partner, especially since the discovery and U.S. killing on May 2 of Osama bin Laden north of Islamabad.

    The commando raid rattled U.S.-Pakistan relations, with American politicians angered at how the al-Qaida leader had managed to conceal that he was living barely two hours from the Pakistani capital.

    Gilani and his Chinese counterpart Wen Jiabao have both made a point of lauding mutual ties, just as Pakistan finds itself under pressure about whether its security services knew where bin Laden was.

    "China is an all-weather friend and the closest ally of Pakistan, and it could be judged from the fact that in whichever sectors Pakistan requested assistance during PM's recent visit to China, they immediately agreed with Pakistan," the defense minister's statement said.

    India, however, has voiced "serious concern" about defense ties between China and Pakistan and said it would need to bolster its own military capabilities in response.

    New Delhi's comments follow reports that China plans to accelerate supply of 50 new JF-17 Thunder multi-role combat jets to Pakistan.

    Pakistan also last week opened a nuclear power plant in central Punjab province with Chinese help and said Beijing had been contracted to construct two more reactors.
    “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

  • #2
    Ft's write up.


    22 May 2011 6:00pm?

    Islamabad splurges on defence hardware

    By Farhan Bokhari and James Lamont in Islamabad

    Pakistan's economy is close to its weakest in the country's 64-year history. Annual economic growth has slumped to little more than 2.4 per cent, the fiscal deficit is yawning and support from the International Monetary Fund is an essential crutch.

    Regardless of the floundering economy, the shopping list of its powerful military grows and grows.

    Although a long-time ally of the US, Pakistan increasingly views China as a supplier of choice.

    Yusuf Raza Gilani, Pakistan's prime minister, returned at the weekend from a four-day visit to Beijing with the promise of 50 fighter jets, worth about $1bn, and undertakings to develop his country's navy.

    These, above power plants, dams and nuclear assistance, were the trophies of a visit intended to reassure Islamabad of its chief regional ally in the wake of the humiliation of the US raid on Osama bin Laden – the darkest moment for Pakistan's army since the loss of East Pakistan in 1971.

    China has over the past two years cemented a relationship with Pakistan's air force over the supply of JF-17 aircraft and the offer of J-10 stealth fighters.

    Moreover, Abbas Raza, the Karachi-based head of Pakistan's navy, is determined to extend Pakistan's strategic partnership with Beijing from the skies to the Arabian Sea.

    Pakistan's defence ministry officials are negotiating the purchase of six new submarines. Delivery is expected over a decade. If agreed, the supply of submarines, worth as much as $3bn, would be the largest defence purchase between the two neighbours.

    Admiral Raza explains that Pakistan is opening "a doorway for our Chinese friends" to broaden their presence in the Indian Ocean.

    The attraction for Beijing is proximity to energy resources in the Gulf.

    Western diplomats in Islamabad say China is quietly consolidating its partnership with Pakistan, but on commercial terms rather than unconditional assistance. "In the past decade, the Chinese have shown a growing interest in the region. The Chinese have worked quietly with Pakistan to gradually build up their presence," says one western ambassador in Islamabad.

    Some regard the Chinese engagement as a test-bed for Chinese military exports and not, as yet, a threat to neighbouring countries, such as India. They say China's support for Pakistan may delay what threatens to become an inner crumbling of the country's institutions and economy. They also expect China to project its navy into the Indian Ocean, regardless of Pakistan's allegiance.

    China has financed the deep-sea port at Gwadar in western Pakistan, near Iran and close to the straits of Hormuz at the eastern end of the Gulf. It has also sold four naval frigates and accompanying helicopters to Pakistan for $750m.

    Han Xiao Hu, the senior captain who led Chinese vessels in an exercise off Karachi this year, defends co-operation as wanting to "promote peace".

    "The Chinese are new to this region and we welcome their presence," said one Pakistani official. "China's growing presence serves to reinforce China's capacity and interests well beyond its shores, and Pakistan, of course, is very keen to see the Chinese here."

    For Pakistan, a country with parlous public finances already forced to hold back on a planned purchase of three German submarines, China offers a cheaper option and long-term credit.

    "China has come a long way in acquisition and mastering of technology. Besides, in the current economic situation [of a global economic slowdown], quite a few western countries may well be willing to sell technology to the Chinese for money," says Syed Pervez Shahid, a retired lieutenant general and former senior Pakistani military commander.

    Others are less certain that China's military support is guaranteed. Disquiet over the killing of the al-Qaeda leader has put the relationship between the US and Pakistan militaries under enormous pressure.

    Military assistance – which funds arms purchases – is likely to come under scrutiny from the Obama administration and Congress. Likewise, swelling military orders at a time when the country is suffering crippling power shortages might provoke domestic questions about the army's reluctance to embrace the austerity forced upon most of the country's 180m people.

    Additional reporting by Kathrin Hille in Beijing
    “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

    Comment


    • #3
      Something tells me that Pakistan in fearing a cease to US aid. Sounds good to me let the Chinese pour cash into that crooked ass country and listen to their bullshit.
      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

      Comment


      • #4
        I agree, the US should cut off all aid to Pakistan. I cant believe that Pakistan sold itself this cheap, for a meagre $1.5 billion aid commitment the US holds an iron grip on Pakistan's political system. Heck, only $300 million was actually disbursed out of the $1.5 billion commitment. But i have my doubt if the US will cut off the aid, its the only thing that enables them to keep this hold on Pakistan's leaders. I honestly dont know what our incompetent leaders are smoking, they need to wake up and smell the reality.

        The Chinese are providing Pakistan with some serious military hardware and are pouring in billions in investments in our infrastructure. Looks all nice and dandy, but the Chinese never hand out this much cash without asking something in return. This is definitely a scary scenario.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by notorious_eagle View Post
          This is definitely a scary scenario.
          It is to a certain extent. Obviously the question is, what does China get from the deal....
          In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

          Leibniz

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by notorious_eagle View Post
            I agree, the US should cut off all aid to Pakistan. I cant believe that Pakistan sold itself this cheap, for a meagre $1.5 billion aid commitment the US holds an iron grip on Pakistan's political system. Heck, only $300 million was actually disbursed out of the $1.5 billion commitment. But i have my doubt if the US will cut off the aid, its the only thing that enables them to keep this hold on Pakistan's leaders. I honestly dont know what our incompetent leaders are smoking, they need to wake up and smell the reality.

            The Chinese are providing Pakistan with some serious military hardware and are pouring in billions in investments in our infrastructure. Looks all nice and dandy, but the Chinese never hand out this much cash without asking something in return. This is definitely a scary scenario.
            The hold that you mention. Would that happen to be on what groups operate,train and are funded? If that is included into your "hold" scenaro then you might want to look at it as a way military operations dont escalate. I mean do you really think the rest of world is not going to hold Pakistan responsible for what the country breeds?

            The actions of the past few days should clearly tell you that they cannot even control the monsters they know full well exist under their cover.
            Last edited by Dreadnought; 23 May 11,, 02:31.
            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

            Comment


            • #7
              American gives aid, Chinese offers investment.

              The Chinese is seeing the mighty energy dollars in Pakistan – it is home the world’s 5th largest coal reserve in addition to the south point of the CAS refinery hub. If pushed, China can offload its middle east oil import in Gwadar, rail it to Xinjiang and to be refined there.

              One of the developing story that is often ignored by the “how many jets, how many missiles” types – China is goaling to be the regional player in refinery. Imagine Japan’s oil imports are refined by the PRC. Due to shortage of land, Japan’s largest refinery is the Negishi Yokahama Refinery which ranked 30th in term of size, way down in the list.
              China, on the other hand, has been building refining capacity left and right.



              Surge of Chinese Refining Capacity Investment in 2010 - GLG News

              3E China Refining Capacity Survey 2010-2011 has shown that primary refining capacity (distillation) in China is expected to increase by an impressive 11.7 percent for 2010, making a big surge of the national refining capacity expansion campaign launched since 2008. Adding more sour crude oil processing and secondary refining capacity has become a major focus of investment by major Chinese refiners.


              China's refining capacity may rise 50%, Sinopec says

              PetroChina to Pay $2.2 Billion for Singapore Refining (Update1)

              PetroChina to Pay $2.2 Billion for Singapore Refining (Update1) - Bloomberg


              Construction of China-Russia refinery to start in H2 - Xinhua | Reuters

              May 22 (Reuters) - The construction of a $5 billion China-Russia crude oil refinery in the northern port city of Tianjin will begin in the second half of this year, paving the way for its operations by 2015, the official Xinhua news agency said on Sunday.
              Last edited by xinhui; 23 May 11,, 02:49.
              “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

              Comment


              • #8
                Tell you whats going to be interesting is when Pakistan learns about how China feels about religion such as the Uighurs. Bet that will be one interesting conversation and then perhaps we will see.

                You will have a persistant and well practiced religious country dealing with those that view religions as a threat to power. Interesting to see what they will choose to recognize and what they will not.
                Last edited by Dreadnought; 23 May 11,, 02:41.
                Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                Comment


                • #9
                  China invests billions in Afghanistan's copper mine, Pakistani coal is less of a risk.


                  China invest in Thar Coal field
                  Email
                  Written by ePakistanNews on Jan-29-11 2:18am
                  From: epakistannews.com

                  China invest in Thar Coal field - Pakistan - Zimbio





                  http://economicpakistan.wordpress.co...r-development/

                  Pakistan has vast reserves of coal. But there is very little energy produced by burning coal. China has now agreed to invest about $600 million for setting up an integrated coal mining-***-power project in Sindh. The project will produce 180 million tons of coal per year, which is sufficient to fuel the proposed 405 MW power plant. Pakistan is currently world’s seventh largest coal-producing country, with coal reserves of more than 185 billion tons (second in the world after U.S.A.’s 247 billion tons). Almost all (99 percent) of Pakistan’s coal reserves are found in the province of Sindh. Pakistan’s largest coal field is Thar coal field which is spread over an area of 9100 square kilometers, and contains 175 billion tons of coal. So far this coal field has not been developed but efforts are underway.

                  In addition to the coal project, China has agreed to build several other power plants in Pakistan to help the South Asian nation deal with its worsening electricity crisis. When completed over the next several years, these plants, including Nandipur (425 MW, Thermal), Guddu(800 MW, Thermal) and Neelam-Jhelum(1000 MW, Hydro), Chashma (1200 MW, Nuclear) will add more than 3000 MW of power generating capacity for the energy-hungry country. Pakistan is currently facing a deficit of 4,000 to 5,000 megawatts, resulting in extensive load-shedding (rolling blackouts) of several hours a day.

                  China has already installed a 325-megawatt nuclear power plant (C1) at Chashma and is currently working on another (C2) of the same capacity that is expected to be online by 2010. The agreements for C3 and C4 have also been signed. The United States has objected to China supplying C3 and C4 on the grounds that any Pak-China nuclear cooperation would require consensus approval by the NSG, of which China is now a member, for any exception to the guidelines. The US is applying double standards since it supported and got approval for such an exception from NSG for its own nuclear deal with India.
                  Last edited by xinhui; 23 May 11,, 02:42.
                  “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                    Tell you whats going to be interesting is when Pakistan learns about how China feels about religion such as the Uighurs. Bet that will be one interesting conversation and then perhaps we will see.

                    You will have a persistant and well practiced religious country dealing with those that view religions as a threat to power. Interesting to see what they will choose to recognize and what they will not.
                    Actually, Pakistan has been "helpful" in cracking down Uighurs operate there, much more helpful compare to cracking down "other groups"


                    East Turkestan: Pakistan Uyghurs in Hiding

                    http://www.unpo.org/article/10951

                    Two prominent members of the exiled Turkic-speaking Uyghur community in Pakistan , many of whom oppose Chinese rule in their homeland, are on the run from the authorities following police raids on their homes.

                    notorious_eagle,

                    There ya go, this is China is getting in return.
                    Last edited by xinhui; 23 May 11,, 02:48.
                    “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by xinhui View Post
                      Actually, Pakistan has been "helpful" in cracking down Uighurs operate there, much more helpful compare to cracking down "other groups".

                      Guess your right Xinhui you would know better then many. Thanks for making that point.
                      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        notorious_eagle,

                        The way I look at it, if the Sino Pakistan relationship goes south, Pakistan still has infrastructure left -- the dam and power stations are still there. Giving aid to political parties, those billions will be gone before I finish typing up this WAB post.

                        Originally posted by notorious_eagle View Post
                        I agree, the US should cut off all aid to Pakistan. I cant believe that Pakistan sold itself this cheap, for a meagre $1.5 billion aid commitment the US holds an iron grip on Pakistan's political system. Heck, only $300 million was actually disbursed out of the $1.5 billion commitment. But i have my doubt if the US will cut off the aid, its the only thing that enables them to keep this hold on Pakistan's leaders. I honestly dont know what our incompetent leaders are smoking, they need to wake up and smell the reality.

                        The Chinese are providing Pakistan with some serious military hardware and are pouring in billions in investments in our infrastructure. Looks all nice and dandy, but the Chinese never hand out this much cash without asking something in return. This is definitely a scary scenario.
                        “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          xinhui

                          Sir i think you misunderstood my intentions, i am all for good relations between China and Pakistan. I have seen some of the infrastructure work the Chinese have done up in Azad Kashmir and Balochistan, its absolutely magnificent and simply top class. I was referring to the serious military hardware that China is providing Pakistan. Its public now as insiders have revealed online that besides the 50 JF17's, the Chinese are providing FC20's equipped with latest avionics, newer generation of Chinese subs and frigates. There is also other military hardware that China is providing Pakistan but thats under the radar and obviously i am not at the liberty to reveal that online. Although it would be interesting if China builds a naval base in Gwadar, the presence of Chinese assets would ensure that Indian Navy does not comes close because an attack on Chinese assets would be equivalent of a declaration of war against China.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            And Pakistan would be foolish to think that continued attacks on the Indians from terrorists on their soil wouldnt go unanswered. China or no China.

                            In other threads it is claimed that Pakistan does not need "aid" from anyone particularly the West but what about the East?

                            One would think this certainly falls under that category in the bottom line otherwise they wouldnt be asking for it and giving rights to a military installation in return.

                            What would happen if the groups that Pakistan shields were to attack a Chinese istallation? That is given the fact they have touted "Soverignty" over security. What are they going to do then?

                            Who to turn to then if China then insisted that Pakistan deal with these groups or no "aid"?

                            Ironic huh?;)

                            All pointing to one direction IMO.
                            Last edited by Dreadnought; 23 May 11,, 15:23.
                            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              notorious_eagle


                              Believe me (and the Indian war planners know this too) China is not going to fight no war for no body.
                              Last edited by xinhui; 23 May 11,, 18:34.
                              “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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