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  • Proof..the truth starts to come about

    ISLAMABAD (AP) — One of three wives living with Osama bin Laden told Pakistani interrogators she had been staying in the al-Qaeda chief's hideout for five years, and could be a key source of information about how he avoided capture for so long, a Pakistani intelligence official said Friday.
    By Anjum Naveed, AP

    In its first confirmation of bin Laden's death, al-Qaeda warned of retaliation in an Internet statement, saying Americans' "happiness will turn to sadness."

    Bin Laden's wife, identified as Yemeni-born Amal Ahmed Abdullfattah, said she never left the upper floors of the house the entire time she was there.

    She and bin Laden's other two wives are being interrogated in Pakistan after they were taken into custody following Monday's American raid on bin Laden's compound in the town of Abbottabad. Pakistani authorities are also holding eight or nine children who were found there after the U.S. commandos left.

    Given shifting and incomplete accounts from U.S. officials about what happened during the raid, testimony from bin Laden's wives may be significant in unveiling details about the operation.

    Their accounts could also help show how bin Laden spent his time and managed to stay hidden, living in a large house close to a military academy in a garrison town, a two-and-a-half hours' drive from the capital, Islamabad.

    The Pakistani official said CIA officers had not been given access to the women in custody. Already tense military and intelligence relations between the United States and Pakistan have been further strained after the helicopter-borne raid, which many Pakistanis see as a violation of their country's sovereignty.

    The proximity of bin Laden's hideout to the military garrison and the Pakistani capital has also raised suspicions in Washington that bin Laden may have been protected by Pakistani security forces while on the run.

    Risking more tensions, missiles fired from a U.S. drone killed 15 people, including foreign militants, in North Waziristan, an al-Qaeda and Taliban hotspot close to Afghanistan, Pakistani officials said. Such attacks were routine last year, but their frequency has dropped this year amid opposition by the Pakistani security establishment.

    Pakistan's army, a key U.S. ally in the Afghanistan war, on Thursday threatened to review cooperation with Washington if it stages anymore attacks like the one that killed bin Laden.

    The Pakistani intelligence official did not say Friday whether the Yemeni wife has said that bin Laden was also living there since 2006. "We are still getting information from them," he said.

    Another security official said the wife was shot in the leg during the operation and did not witness her husband being killed. He also said one of bin Laden's eldest daughters had said she witnessed the Americans killing her father.

    Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to give their names to the media.

    Meanwhile, Pakistan's intelligence agency has concluded that bin Laden was "cash strapped" in his final days, according to a briefing given by two senior military officials. Disputes over money between the terror leader and his No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahri, led al-Qaeda to split into two factions five or six years ago, with the larger faction controlled by al-Zawahri, they said.

    The officers spoke to a small group of Pakistani reporters late Thursday. Their comments were confirmed for The Associated Press by the same security official who spoke about the shooting of bin Laden's wife and who was present at Thursday's briefing.

    The officer didn't provide details or elaborate on how his agency made the conclusions about bin Laden's financial situation or the split with his deputy, al-Zawahri. The al-Qaedachief apparently had lived without any guards at the Abbottabad compound or loyalists nearby to take up arms in his defense.

    The image of Pakistan's intelligence agency has been battered at home and abroad in the wake of the raid that killed bin Laden. Portraying him as isolated and weak could be aimed at trying to create an impression that a failure to spot him was not so important.

    Documents taken from the house by American commandos showed that bin Laden was planning to hit America, however, including a plan for derailing an American train on the upcoming 10th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks. The confiscated materials reveal the rail attack was planned as of February 2010.

    Late Thursday, two Pakistani officials cited bin Laden's wives and children as saying he and his associates had not offered any "significant resistance" when the American commandos entered the compound, in part because the assailants had thrown "stun bombs" that disorientated them.

    One official said Pakistani authorities found an AK-47 and a pistol in the house belonging to those inside, with evidence that one bullet had been fired from the rifle.

    "That was the level of resistance" they put up, said the official, who also spoke on condition of anonymity.

    His account is roughly consistent with the most recent one given by U.S. officials, who now say only one of the five people killed in the raid was armed and fired any shots, a striking departure from the intense and prolonged firefight described earlier by the White House and others in the administration.

    U.S. officials say four men were killed alongside bin Laden, including one of his sons.

    Reflecting the anger in Pakistan, hundreds of members of radical Islamic parties protested Friday in several Pakistan cities against the American raid and in favor of bin Laden. Many of the people chanted "Osama is alive" and blasted the U.S. for violating the country's sovereignty.

    The largest rally took place in the town of Khuchlak in southwestern Baluchistan province, where about 500 people attended.

    "America is celebrating Osama bin Laden's killing, but it will be a temporary celebration," said Abdullah Sittar Chishti, a member of the Jamiat Ulema Islam party who attended the rally in Khuchlak. "After the martyrdom of Osama, billions, trillions of Osamas will be born."

    Bin Laden's wife spent 5 years in Pakistani house - USATODAY.com

    Thank goodness the US happens to have billions, trillions of bullets waiting in the wings for these idiots as well.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

  • #2
    Proof of what?
    Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
    https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
      Proof of what?
      Proof that his wife (one of) has been living there for quite some time. Five years of time which in itself should have raised a red flag to their intelligence (ISI) a long time ago.
      You claim in other threads that Pakistan is so smart and can support themselves without aid leading one to believe one of two things about the Pakistan Military.

      Either:

      A) They knew about this a long time ago (5 years in this case) through intelligence and prefered to flat out deny,deny,deny, or hold out until they could make good with US aid deals and deals to their home grown branches of terrorism.

      OR

      B) They are inherently stupid as to what goes on around their Military installations and Academies and not as smart as you claim them to be.

      You choose because the US people that supply that aid arent buying it. Good luck in selling it here.
      Last edited by Dreadnought; 06 May 11,, 22:48.
      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
        Proof of what?
        Did you not claim that Osama moved in only months back in the other thread?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by calass View Post
          Did you not claim that Osama moved in only months back in the other thread?
          No, I said there was no evidence at that time indicating how long he had been living there. Some reports suggested years, others a year to a month. I went with the latter.
          Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
          https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
            Proof that his wife (one of) has been living there for quite some time. Five years of time which in itself should have raised a red flag to their intelligence (ISI) a long time ago.
            Why would it have raised a red flag? She said she never left the compound in that time either. There are reports as of yet that any neighbors either saw OBL or suspected OBL.
            So what would raise a 'red flag'?

            And let me point out again that Pakistan has clearly stated that the couriers phone number that led to the US finding OBL's hideout was provided by the ISI - they would not be handing over critical intelligence like that to the US if they were in fact 'hiding him'.

            You claim in other threads that Pakistan is so smart and can support themselves without aid leading one to believe one of two things about the Pakistan Military.
            I also gave you facts and figures supporting my position, that Pakistan can generate more revenues than it takes in through aid and loans. All you are offering is speculation.

            A) They knew about this a long time ago (5 years in this case) through intelligence and prefered to flat out deny,deny,deny, or hold out until they could make good with US aid deals and deals to their home grown branches of terrorism.
            Nonsense - since Pakistan neutralized several high level AQ leaders, and provided critical intelligence that led to the US finding OBL.

            B) They are inherently stupid as to what goes on around their Military installations and Academies and not as smart as you claim them to be.
            That doesn't apply either. There was no 'suspicious activity' at the compound. There was no 'bomb making', no massive 'bomb materials or weapons shipments' transiting to and fro from the compound. No 'large groups of suspicious men' moving in and out. OBL was never spotted by anyone, and likely never stepped out of the compound once there.

            So what was there to be suspicious about?
            You choose because the US people that supply that aid arent buying it. Good luck in selling it here.
            I have to choose neither since neither applies.
            Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
            https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

            Comment


            • #7
              One addendum to the 'incompetence' argument.

              I do think the ISI was 'incompetent' in not detecting CIA operations in Pakistan, and hopefully that is something they will work on.
              Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
              https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

              Comment


              • #8
                One thing thats interesting here is she appears free to talk. Does this imply that the inhabitants are in joint custody. Otherwise her answers will be coached.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Double Edge Reply

                  "Does this imply that the inhabitants are in joint custody."

                  "The Pakistani official said CIA officers had not been given access to the women in custody."

                  The article plainly suggests otherwise. It'll be a cold day in hell before our intelligence officials can conduct a serious discussion with these people. I doubt we've ever spoken with Mullah Baradar. Why would it be different here?
                  "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                  "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Missed that line S-2

                    Will take it as official then that OBL was there as long as his wife suggests.

                    Dredd you got your proof

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                      Missed that line S-2

                      Will take it as official then that OBL was there as long as his wife suggests.

                      Dredd you got your proof
                      Actually, she never suggested that.

                      One of three wives living with Osama bin Laden told Pakistani interrogators she had been staying in the al-Qaeda chief's hideout for five years, and could be a key source of information about how he avoided capture for so long, a Pakistani intelligence official said Friday.
                      The report did not state she said "they" were there for 5 years. Only "she" was there for 5 years.
                      "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Agnostic Muslim View Post
                        One addendum to the 'incompetence' argument.

                        I do think the ISI was 'incompetent' in not detecting CIA operations in Pakistan, and hopefully that is something they will work on.
                        On a side note, i thought i would share that there is pressure building on General Ahmed Shuja Pasha and he may resign as the DG ISI. If that happens, lets see whom is nominated as the new DG ISI. Lt General Tariq Khan comes to mind, he's one person that is definitely deserving of that post and his track record speaks volumes of his performance.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A.M. Reply

                          "I do think the ISI was 'incompetent' in not detecting CIA operations in Pakistan..."

                          Those wouldn't be the only operations inside Pakistan to which the ISI has displayed some incompetence. Sadly they're also among the least malignant.

                          OTOH, it's is very disappointing that we've needed to independantly observe and study from close range the operations of LeT, JuI, LeJ, JeM and more. These groups constitute an abiding threat to Pakistani civil society as well as Pakistan's immediate and distant neighbors.
                          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by notorious_eagle View Post
                            On a side note, i thought i would share that there is pressure building on General Ahmed Shuja Pasha and he may resign as the DG ISI. If that happens, lets see whom is nominated as the new DG ISI. Lt General Tariq Khan comes to mind, he's one person that is definitely deserving of that post and his track record speaks volumes of his performance.
                            I am not sure how much I agree with that, given that it was Haqqani in DC who allowed thousands of visas for US personnel without proper scrutiny. Of course the ISI could have still done a better job of monitoring the individuals, but the sheer numbers would require significant resources. Of course, I am unaware of the specific criticizm against him, and whether it is merited by a poor performance on his part in areas other than 'monitoring thousands of American officials' in Pakistan.

                            Interesting to note the barrage of opinions in the English language press that is critical of the ISI/PA as well - the US's 'media program' paying dividends. Thankfully, those opinions in the English press have little popular following in Pakistan, with the Urdu language TV media garnering a much larger following.

                            On another note, IMO, given the fact that we are at war and facing threats on multiple fronts, people advocating opinions such as those of Farhat Taj, and their contacts in Pakistan, should be arrested and tried for treason in military courts. While in normal times their opinions might be tolerable in the guise of 'freedom of speech', in a time of war, advocating in support of a foreign entity conducting military operations on Pakistani soil is nothing less than treason.
                            Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                            https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Double Edge View Post

                              Dredd you got your proof
                              Proof for what?
                              Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state to be ruled by priests with a divine mission - Jinnah
                              https://twitter.com/AgnosticMuslim

                              Comment

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