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zraver
02 May 11,, 03:48
About dam time!

Obama will be speaking shortly.

troung
02 May 11,, 03:50
CNN Reporting

Parihaka
02 May 11,, 03:52
Threads merged. WOOT!

zraver
02 May 11,, 03:55
A very good day for the world.

ace16807
02 May 11,, 03:56
I wonder if they'll announce the details on the operation. Either way, major props to those involved.

troung
02 May 11,, 03:56
Happy May Day...

elc32955
02 May 11,, 03:58
Multiple media outlets reporting that Osama Bin Laden has been killed and that US is in possession of his body. Standing by for a presidential statement on all major networks....

Note this is unconfirmed until the presidential address.

zraver
02 May 11,, 04:05
CBS is reporting a congressional source told them we spawn camped his ass and drilled his brains out. Fear the sniper!

troung
02 May 11,, 04:08
Report is that he was killed in a mansion outside of Islamabad.

ace16807
02 May 11,, 04:11
So do I go out in front of the white house with everyone else, or stay here and study. :/

Dago
02 May 11,, 04:14
Good job US forces

Parihaka
02 May 11,, 04:15
Report is that he was killed in a mansion outside of Islamabad.

By US 'assets'. I'd imagine the Pakistanis will be fuming....

marx
02 May 11,, 04:16
Just confirmed the DNA match.
But because they say we killed him in Pakistan, doesn't that violate a treaty we had with Pakistan about not killing anyone with in Pakistan borders?

Dago
02 May 11,, 04:19
By US 'assets'. I'd imagine the Pakistanis will be fuming....

Right now, don't care what the Pakistan care about. This guy was wanted by the US, with us or against us. IF pakistan wants to be against us thats fine. Good day for the US. We would get this guy anywhere he goes, and we got him. Good job US forces

HKDan
02 May 11,, 04:25
Whooo Hoooo!!!! Been waiting a damn long time to hear this news.

marx
02 May 11,, 04:29
Just confirmed the DNA match.
But because they say we killed him in Pakistan, doesn't that violate a treaty we had with Pakistan about not killing anyone with in Pakistan borders?

Just liek to point out that like 20 minutes after I asked this they answered my question exactly, on Fox, and even how I asked it. Now thats ironic.

Officer of Engineers
02 May 11,, 04:31
A very good day for the world.I most heartily agree.

dalem
02 May 11,, 04:36
Awesome! Now if we can get a new building put up we'll be rockin'.

-dale

troung
02 May 11,, 04:37
Obama giving statement.

Julie
02 May 11,, 04:37
Pakistan has some explaining to do.....I think they gave him up so we would leave.

troung
02 May 11,, 04:38
Sources: Al-Qaida head bin Laden dead
By JULIE PACE, Associated Press Julie Pace, Associated Press 10 mins ago

WASHINGTON – Osama bin Laden, the mastermind behind the Sept. 11 attacks against the United States, is dead, and the U.S. is in possession of his body, a person familiar with the situation said late Sunday.

President Barack Obama was expected to address the nation on the developments Sunday night.

Two senior counterterrorism officials confirmed that bin Laden was killed in Pakistan last week. One said bin Laden was killed in a ground operation, not by a Predator drone. Both said the operation was based on U.S. intelligence, and both said the U.S. is in possession of bin Laden's body.

Officials long believed bin Laden, the most wanted man in the world, was hiding a mountainous region along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity in order to speak ahead of the president.

The development comes just months before the tenth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks on the World Trade Centers and Pentagon, orchestrated by bin Laden's al-Qaida organization, that killed more than 3,000 people.

The attacks set off a chain of events that led the United States into wars in Afghanistan, and then Iraq, and America's entire intelligence apparatus was overhauled to counter the threat of more terror attacks at home.

Al-Qaida organization was also blamed for the 1998 bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa that killed 231 people and the 2000 attack on the USS Cole that killed 17 American sailors in Yemen, as well as countless other plots, some successful and some foiled.

Copyright © 2011 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.

* Q

JAD_333
02 May 11,, 04:39
Next come the retaliatory bombings.

troung
02 May 11,, 04:42
He was in Abbotabad.

Triple C
02 May 11,, 04:42
NYT, CNN and BBC all came out on the record to say Obama Bin Laden is no more, that he had been killed by coalition forces in Pakistan, that tests confirmed the body's identity, and the president to announce it briefly.

devgupt
02 May 11,, 04:48
May his soul not rest in peace

leib10
02 May 11,, 04:50
Finally!

Aussiegunner
02 May 11,, 04:52
NYT, CNN and BBC all came out on the record to say Obama Bin Laden is no more, that he had been killed by coalition forces in Pakistan, that tests confirmed the body's identity, and the president to announce it briefly.

If this turns out to be true all those lousy terrorist leaders and dictators know for sure that they can run but they can't hide ....

Dago
02 May 11,, 04:53
Why are some news saying it was last week? by a bomb? Msnbc and fox. This happened yesterday, Obama approved the operation last night or yesterday. We have his body.

ambidex
02 May 11,, 04:53
He was killed inside Pakistan by American team (Marines).

The first tip came in August 2010.

Osama was shot in the head once.

Ms Hilary Clinton was saying last year that he is in Pakistan. Was she compromising the tip or she was helpless and opted to come openly to put pressure on Pakistan?

Dago
02 May 11,, 04:54
Marines? I think Delta or SEALS

chender
02 May 11,, 04:54
There was a firefight and obviously shooting. This will be a very interesting story to here the actual events on the ground once it comes out. Also what was that about bin laden being in the mountains? A mansion in Abbotabad near Islamabad. Fascinating stuff.

JAD_333
02 May 11,, 04:58
Reports say Pakistan cooperated; others say it was informed just before the operation.

marx
02 May 11,, 05:01
Next come the retaliatory bombings.

We are ready, with every american life taken or any life taken not just americans, a nationalistic feeling will spread across the country so fast that we will finally truly be the "united" states of america!

troung
02 May 11,, 05:03
I want pics.

Dago
02 May 11,, 05:04
Do I find that bad ass? No we didn't rely on bombs, and no we didn't rely on the pakistan ... we got Delta or whoever into that country, through embasyy cover or what not, military fatigues or not and in military or SUV's or what not.... and one thing was for sure, these guys were willing to go up against whoever, risk there lifes if need be to capture or kill, and another thing, he would not get away. And we would carry his body out. I am sure we had UAV's overhead.. but US Forces, for the first time, in pakistan to kill bin ladin.

Well done US forces. And Obama giving the go ahead and not relying on the (pakistani'ss! Semper FI!

Parihaka
02 May 11,, 05:05
Reports say Pakistan cooperated; others say it was informed just before the operation.

I think the cynic in me wins this one

Dreadnought
02 May 11,, 05:05
If so true,,,Justice served!

dalem
02 May 11,, 05:06
I vote they put the body at Ground Zero and charge $100 a pop to piss on it. We'll have the Debt paid down in a week.

-dale

troung
02 May 11,, 05:09
I would pay three times that, no BS....

S2
02 May 11,, 05:11
I'm so incredibly happy and glad that our citizens, Kenyans, Brits, Spaniards, Afghans and Pakistanis have been avenged. God bless our troops and intelligence operatives.

This war isn't over. Zawahiri, Ilyas Kashmiri and many others remain at large and committed to their twisted perverse vision. May they soon die in similar manner.

Parihaka
02 May 11,, 05:13
I'm so incredibly happy and glad that our citizens, Kenyans, Brits, Spaniards, Afghans and Pakistanis have been avenged. God bless our troops and intelligence operatives.

This war isn't over. Zawahiri, Ilyas Kashmiri and many others remain at large and committed to their twisted perverse vision. May they soon die in similar manner.

I imagine there's more than a few houses throughout Pakistan being hurriedly vacated at the moment.

Mohan
02 May 11,, 05:15
Finally the Scum is gone and also wish the other lesser value targets are also killed.

troung
02 May 11,, 05:20
One million dollar property, 12-18ft walls, no internet, they burned their trash, barbed wire....

Navy SEALs on an airmobile raid.

Parihaka
02 May 11,, 05:22
Retirement village for top ex-military.

ambidex
02 May 11,, 05:22
Marines? I think Delta or SEALS

Thanks, MSNBC live was saying Navy Seals....correction.

Aussiegunner
02 May 11,, 05:24
May his soul not rest in peace

.... and may he be cursed with having to live with 72 fat, ugly virgins who have been kicked out of heaven.

667medic
02 May 11,, 05:26
.... and may he be cursed with having to live with 72 fat, ugly virgins who have been kicked out of heaven.

I think he would face 72 Virginians armed with their long muskets up his ass..

667medic
02 May 11,, 05:28
BTW a certain forum which starts with the word P seems to have gone nuts, the members there are in the throes of a nervous breakdown....

667medic
02 May 11,, 05:29
I hope Obama gets reelected. I need him to win so that he spend more money on health care which in turn would mean that I could get a job in USA...

Triple C
02 May 11,, 05:30
Wouldn't be PxxxDefense would it?

Dago
02 May 11,, 05:31
Which navy seal group is stationed in India sea region? Seal team 5 or something?

troung
02 May 11,, 05:32
Killed one of his bastard kids as well.

notorious_eagle
02 May 11,, 05:32
Reports say Pakistan cooperated; others say it was informed just before the operation.

[Updated, 12:11 a.m. ET] Members of Pakistan's intelligence service - the ISI - were on site in Abbotabad, Pakistan, during the operation that killed Osama bin Laden, CNN's Nick Paton Walsh reports, citing a senior Pakistani intelligence official. The official said he did not know who fired the shot that actually killed Bin Laden.
Bin Laden killed in Pakistan, Obama says – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/02/obama-to-make-statment-tonight-subject-unknown/?hpt=T1)

This is a great day, i am so happy today. This man got what he deserved, he has the blood of thousands of innocent people on his hands.

Dago
02 May 11,, 05:35
Looked in a book I had...says Seal team 1 is directed towards Southeast asia

Bhaarat
02 May 11,, 05:37
Can't say that is has immense ground consequences but surely is a big symbolic victory. Congratulations to the US, NATO soldiers and intelligence agencies who pulled it off.
Two interesting things I note here :
1. The key words "DEEP inside Pakistan , the city of Abottabad". While I heard Pak government continously refuted the claim of Osama's hideout in Pakistan.
2. There was a news recently (probably baseed on one of the leaked cables) that terrorists have nukes or dirty bombs hidden in Europe to retaliate, should something happen to Osama. How true could this be? Are they going to try make it happen, now that Osama is gone?

Regards,
Bhaarat

citanon
02 May 11,, 05:39
Retirement village for top ex-military.

Looking forward to finding out whether it was the Pakistanis who gave him up to get us to leave. Coincidence with timing of the Karzai - Pakistani prime minister meeting last week?

JAD_333
02 May 11,, 05:40
I think the cynic in me wins this one

Gives Pak a chance to wash its hands.

citanon
02 May 11,, 05:41
.... and may he be cursed with having to live with 72 fat, ugly virgins who have been kicked out of heaven.

The 72 virgins will be large men who will make his rear end their playground.

Dago
02 May 11,, 05:41
Every past operation, I can think of, Seals were involved. Grenada, Panama.. Embassy's etc.. I am sure, this was a special group tasked with the hunt, either SEALS or Delta. I want to say it from the sea, with Naval assets... but it could of easily been DELTA arriving by helo.

Wonder if they flew in with US assets, like Somali type raid. Or flown in, and SUV's... driving.

667medic
02 May 11,, 05:41
I am celebrating this by having a tub of chocolate chip ice cream......

troung
02 May 11,, 05:41
Wonder if they flew in with US assets, like Somali type raid. Or flown in, and SUV's... driving.

Flown, reports floating have them in four helicopters, 40 minute ground raid. One helicopter crashed from mechanical problems.

Conflicting early reports if we told the Pakistanis before the raid or after they were on the way.

citanon
02 May 11,, 05:42
[Updated, 12:11 a.m. ET] Members of Pakistan's intelligence service - the ISI - were on site in Abbotabad, Pakistan, during the operation that killed Osama bin Laden, CNN's Nick Paton Walsh reports, citing a senior Pakistani intelligence official. The official said he did not know who fired the shot that actually killed Bin Laden.
Bin Laden killed in Pakistan, Obama says – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/02/obama-to-make-statment-tonight-subject-unknown/?hpt=T1)

This is a great day, i am so happy today. This man got what he deserved, he has the blood of thousands of innocent people on his hands.

So just as we thought they knew where he was all along?

YellowFever
02 May 11,, 05:43
Woo Hoo!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbrwIE_GhrM&feature=player_embedded

troung
02 May 11,, 05:45
CNN's Nick Paton Walsh reports, citing a senior Pakistani intelligence official. The official said he did not know who fired the shot that actually killed Bin Laden.

In a retirement town for PA/ISI officials, with a huge mansion with 18ft walls, for 5yrs...

Dago
02 May 11,, 05:46
Flown, reports floating have them in two helicopters, 40 minute ground raid. One helicopter crashed from mechanical problems.

Conflicting early reports if we told the Pakistanis before the raid or after they were on the way.

So either SEALS fast reaction from the India sea, naval HELO's. I wonder if they primary got this, like SEAL TEAM SIX, because most of the time our best is already on the ground hunting these guys. So logistically! We have other SEAL TEAMS, I wonder if they got the call due too urgency.

AND IMHO, any SEAL or US Forces even Marines Recon could handle this type of operation. One thing is sure, they had dedication, they were either going to kill or capture him.

Or maybe Delta or SEAL team Six, tasked with this mission.... got the call either from Afghanistan...or maybe already stationed in Pakistan... but we don't have military bases in Pakistan.

So I will say these guys flew out of Afghanistan or Indian ocean! great job.

Dago
02 May 11,, 05:47
Just heard that these forces practiced beforehand for the area and compound, because ex Generals lived there and etc...

So this was built up, so I would have to say Delta force or Navy Team Six Devgru.

troung
02 May 11,, 05:52
Fox reported that the helicopters flew from Pakistani air bases, according to Pakistani sources. Fox stated the helicopter that went down was hit by ground fire.

Dago
02 May 11,, 05:54
MSNBC Reported - That no intelligence was shared with another Country. And this was carried out by US forces without Pakistani knowledge. Only a few in the US government knew about the operation. Right before the operation, Pakistani might of been advised, for US sefety. But was not planned or shared with any Country nor Pakistan.

JAD_333
02 May 11,, 05:55
I doubt Obama would have mentioned ISI if Pakistan hadn't wanted him to. Tells me Pakistan wants the world to know its on our side in this.

troung
02 May 11,, 05:58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1DEG6BWgp0&fmt=18

JAD_333
02 May 11,, 06:05
As overdue as this is, it came at a ideal time. People throughout the ME are distracted by opposition movements or involved in them.

The lead on OBL's whereabouts was developed last August. Must have been hard for those in on it to keep a straight face when asked by the media where OBL was hiding out.

S2
02 May 11,, 06:10
def.pk is in meltdown. JANA, otherwise known as Farzana Shah a half-wit journalist for the Asian Tribune is reporting OBL was killed a week ago and the body handed over to U.S. authorities. It's also being suggested the crashed chopper (destroyed) was Pakistani. They cannot imagine that we kept this on close hold since last August without their knowledge, approval and participation.

YellowFever
02 May 11,, 06:14
W. Bush's comment on the matter as reported by PBS.ORG

"Earlier this evening, President Obama called to inform me that American forces killed Osama bin Laden, the leader of the al-Qaida network that attacked America on September 11, 2001. I congratulated him and the men and women of our military and intelligence communities who devoted their lives to this mission. They have our everlasting gratitude. This momentous achievement marks a victory for America, for people who seek peace around the world, and for all those who lost loved ones on September 11, 2001. The fight against terror goes on, but tonight America has sent an unmistakable message: No matter how long it takes, justice will be done."

drhuy
02 May 11,, 06:14
any chance we can see his face, or what left of it, i dont care

Parihaka
02 May 11,, 06:16
I'm wondering whether the helicopters could have got in and out without PAF knowledge.

Dago
02 May 11,, 06:18
I'm wondering whether the helicopters could have got in and out without PAF knowledge.

jamming pods? altitude? flying low

HKDan
02 May 11,, 06:19
I'm wondering whether the helicopters could have got in and out without PAF knowledge.

IM guessing that it was either a raid from a Pakistani miltary airfield and the Pakistanis were fully informed, or CV-22 Ospreys out of Afghanistan. I can't think of another way that the U.S. could have done it from outside Pakistan.

Blademaster
02 May 11,, 06:20
Here's Obama making a statement.

25018

hammer
02 May 11,, 06:21
Congratulations guys!! Can someone from US spl forces hang his body upside down and take a pic and post it on the WAB, please ? I would love to see it. :biggrin: ... hmmm... next stop Zawahiri's mansion.

RollingWave
02 May 11,, 06:23
hopefully, this is a the start of a something good, and not just the end of a sad story.

troung
02 May 11,, 06:30
25019

Mihais
02 May 11,, 06:31
Have skimmed through the thread.While this may offer emotional satisfaction,it is nonetheless irrelevant in the greater scheme of things.However the ''mission accomplished'' attitude is now official.This my friends ain't no victory,its only the pretext for a retreat.
The Pakistani connection is dubious to say the least and that needs more analysis.The moment seems just too good.

HKDan
02 May 11,, 06:37
BBC correspondent Syed Shoaib Hasan speculates that this operation may have been carried out by U.S. forces operating from a Pakistani military facility in Tarbela Ghazi

Dago
02 May 11,, 06:41
The Blackhawks have the range to get there from Afghanistan. However, Seahawks or Blackhawks wouldn't have the range from the Indian ocean, unless they flew over Afghanistan and refueled maybe twice. Ospreys could of had the distance, if flown from naval assets, first over Afghanistan then lower once in Pakistani territory.

hammer
02 May 11,, 06:54
I really can't believe that the Pakistanis did not know about this operation beforehand. They probably feared a backlash and don't want the outside world to know, any part they might've had to play in this operation.

S2
02 May 11,, 07:17
"I really can't believe that the Pakistanis did not know about this operation beforehand."

I dunno. At some point this real story will come out. It'll be good. Who initially broke the news in August and how. How was the place surveilled? HUMINT or "technical means". Some combination of both? What confirmed the target status in late February? What caused the trigger to be pulled now and not earlier or later? Logistics of the op?

And, of course, when (if) the Pakistanis knew. Like I said earlier, they're already in full melt-down mode and claims of an SSG hit one week ago with OBL put on ice for us being tossed by a award-winning so-called journalist.

ISPR notably silent so far.

Bhaarat
02 May 11,, 07:22
I really can't believe that the Pakistanis did not know about this operation beforehand. They probably feared a backlash and don't want the outside world to know, any part they might've had to play in this operation.

They would've known but only at the last moments for on ground facilitation of the op. Surely it wouldn't suite them to let the world see that Osama was found deep inside Pakistan, camouflaged near an army compound.
But as the US politicians proved with their merry words, all's well that ends well - no one is going after Pakistan right now.

Regards,
Bhaarat

Mihais
02 May 11,, 07:39
"I really can't believe that the Pakistanis did not know about this operation beforehand."

I dunno. At some point this real story will come out. It'll be good. Who initially broke the news in August and how. How was the place surveilled? HUMINT or "technical means". Some combination of both? What confirmed the target status in late February? What caused the trigger to be pulled now and not earlier or later? Logistics of the op?

And, of course, when (if) the Pakistanis knew. Like I said earlier, they're already in full melt-down mode and claims of an SSG hit one week ago with OBL put on ice for us being tossed by a award-winning so-called journalist.

ISPR notably silent so far.

Sir the very idea of ISI not knowing is insulting.The man was in their backyard and he was the most hunted man on Earth.The Americans also knew his whereabouts since at least 9 months ago.If it was anything ,Sir,it was a trade-off.Bin Laden for American retreat,that's my bet.
Sir,this was an execution,not a combat mission.As for the Pakistanis,they know duplicity and how to stage a circus show.They MUST pretend they killed Bin Laden a. because they must not lose face inside and b.they must not look like they held the man for years,while their allies were turning the earth upside down.

hammer
02 May 11,, 07:39
I dunno. At some point this real story will come out. It'll be good. Who initially broke the news in August and how. How was the place surveilled? HUMINT or "technical means". Some combination of both? What confirmed the target status in late February? What caused the trigger to be pulled now and not earlier or later? Logistics of the op?


What puzzles me is that the operation took place very close to Pakistan military academy. The place is swarming with serving and retired Pak army officers. Also confirms the fact that OBL could not have survived this long without Pakistani assistance.



And, of course, when (if) the Pakistanis knew. Like I said earlier, they're already in full melt-down mode and claims of an SSG hit one week ago with OBL put on ice for us being tossed by a award-winning so-called journalist.
ISPR notably silent so far.

LOL. Yeah, I have read her posts. Denial is the first sign, then comes panic and then comes conspiracy theories. I guess ISPR is silent coz, they haven't decided yet, if they should celebrate or mourn. And that depends on the crowd in the streets.

JAD_333
02 May 11,, 08:02
Sir the very idea of ISI not knowing is insulting.The man was in their backyard and he was the most hunted man on Earth.The Americans also knew his whereabouts since at least 9 months ago.If it was anything ,Sir,it was a trade-off.Bin Laden for American retreat,that's my bet.

Interesting thesis, but it doesn't fit the facts. If it was tradeoff and the Pakistanis knew where he was all along, why wait 9 months to order the hit?

bigross86
02 May 11,, 08:04
Picture, if anyone wants to see (http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/05/02/article-1382649-0BDDF08900000578-577_634x423.jpg)

On Israel's Holocaust Remembrance Day, I can honestly not think of happier news for the world over.

Parihaka
02 May 11,, 08:05
Would it still be SOP to blow up the damaged helicopter if you were in friendly territory?

ambidex
02 May 11,, 08:15
A Pakistani Urdu Channel is saying that probably anti air craft gun was used to down Helicopter.

citanon
02 May 11,, 08:26
Sir the very idea of ISI not knowing is insulting.The man was in their backyard and he was the most hunted man on Earth.The Americans also knew his whereabouts since at least 9 months ago.If it was anything ,Sir,it was a trade-off.Bin Laden for American retreat,that's my bet.
Sir,this was an execution,not a combat mission.As for the Pakistanis,they know duplicity and how to stage a circus show.They MUST pretend they killed Bin Laden a. because they must not lose face inside and b.they must not look like they held the man for years,while their allies were turning the earth upside down.

Of course the ISI knew where Bin Laden was. What's not clear is whether the ISI knew that the CIA knew, and were planning to go get him on that day.

cirrrocco
02 May 11,, 08:30
Congrats to the US military.

It is also nice to see confirmation of what many Indian posters have been telling many many years on this very forum that UBL [Pigs be with him] , is in Pakistan much to the disapproval of our american and european members.

Again very good job and I am thrilled that this suvar is finally dead. Best part if that he was drilled in the head..

Dago
02 May 11,, 08:31
Question for everyone - I admit, I overlooked this scenario, even before, that yes taking custody would be the priority of the US however once that is done, the US possess responsibility of the body. What will be done? Of course I don't see it, going into standard procedure, "releasing it to relatives" of martydom significance. However, even if he were to be "cremated" you would have ashes. If you kept it, lawsuits can challenge it.

Edit - They just buried it at sea. You think they would have done an autopsy or something.

citanon
02 May 11,, 08:32
What puzzles me is that the operation took place very close to Pakistan military academy. The place is swarming with serving and retired Pak army officers. Also confirms the fact that OBL could not have survived this long without Pakistani assistance.

I think many have suspected that the Pakistanis were helping him, but the fact that they placed him so close is surprising. Did they need to place him in a secure place to ensure control over him, or were they just brazen?

citanon
02 May 11,, 08:34
They would've known but only at the last moments for on ground facilitation of the op. Surely it wouldn't suite them to let the world see that Osama was found deep inside Pakistan, camouflaged near an army compound.
But as the US politicians proved with their merry words, all's well that ends well - no one is going after Pakistan right now.

Regards,
Bhaarat

In the long term I think this will move the US-Pk relationship in a direction that suits Pakistan. Bin Laden being gone is one less reason we have of being in their back yard.

Dago
02 May 11,, 08:37
As you can see, lawsuits could of challenged the body, could it not? So Obama, the Commander in Chief wanted to get rid of the body, asap? I guess it's within Islamic burial, within 24hrs.

cirrrocco
02 May 11,, 08:37
In the long term I think this will move the US-Pk relationship in a direction that suits Pakistan. Bin Laden being gone is one less reason we have of being in their back yard.


Citanon, be in the backyard for all of eternity. we do not care. Just dont give the pakistanis weapons and money to kill Indians. That is all we request.

citanon
02 May 11,, 08:43
Citanon, be in the backyard for all of eternity. we do not care. Just dont give the pakistanis weapons and money to kill Indians. That is all we request.

Well, it's costing us a lot of money and blood to be there, and I don't think we feel too good about selling them weapons either. Now that he's gone, a different set of motivations will push events. We may have less incentive to sell Pk F-16, but Pk is looking to the PRC, etc. I think it will take a while for things to shake out, but they will be DIFFERENT (but I don't know how).

BTW, heard a US Congressman say on the radio just now that India actually has a lot of assets and access to Afghanistan. Is that true?

citanon
02 May 11,, 08:46
Interesting thesis, but it doesn't fit the facts. If it was tradeoff and the Pakistanis knew where he was all along, why wait 9 months to order the hit?

And why would the Pakistanis have the hit happen on their military's door step? I think PK might have been thinking about giving him up, but and independent US operation moved events at a pace that left them behind.

Dago
02 May 11,, 08:59
Are we going to get pictures? Or no?

Dago
02 May 11,, 09:04
http://wpc.281e.edgecastcdn.net/80281E/s/s/18/media18/2011/May/2/LiveLeak-dot-com-c54dec4b2ad8-osama.jpg.resized.jpg?d5e8cc8eccfb6039332f41f6249e 92b06c91b4db65f5e99818bad7924e46ded68678&ec_rate=350

Not sure if this it authentic.. but some saying AP released...

drhuy
02 May 11,, 09:10
the firefight took place in 40 mins, just a few hundred meters from the Pak military academy. It's almost impossible that there hadnt been some sort of permission from Pak, at least from the military

Deltacamelately
02 May 11,, 09:13
My day couldn't start on a better note.
I say, mumyfy the bastard and keep that for ages for scums like him to see and realize, that this will be their final destiny.

And may I, have a few pegs with Gen Shuza Pasha sometimes soon?;)

hammer
02 May 11,, 09:14
The Pakistanis are not reacting at all! I don't know if that's out of shock or fear of jihadi repercussions. I still can't believe that the US pulled it off without informing Pakistanis, but if they have done just that, then its just fantastic and the Pakistani reaction is understandable.

Mihais
02 May 11,, 09:18
Interesting thesis, but it doesn't fit the facts. If it was tradeoff and the Pakistanis knew where he was all along, why wait 9 months to order the hit?

JAD,sir,OBL was there in a golden cage.But for ISI to let the man roam free is simply impossible.I have no idea why the wait(could be anything),but if the Americans knew where he was,they also knew he was in Pakistani hands.The very fact that it was such a long wait proves however there was no reason to hurry.Your guys were certain he was not getting out alive.Those are the only facts we have so far.Much is yet to be told,but given the stakes in this matter,I won't care too much about what the officials say,but try to read between the lines.
There is no truth in news and no news in truth.

citanon
02 May 11,, 09:42
From Abbottabad, Live-Tweeting the bin Laden Attack - India Real Time - WSJ (http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2011/05/02/from-abbottabad-live-tweeting-the-bin-laden-attack/tab/print/)

May 2, 2011, 1:28 PM IST

From Abbottabad, Live-Tweeting the bin Laden Attack

A man in Abbottabad, the town where Osama bin Laden was killed by the U.S. on Monday, inadvertently live-tweeted the attack as it started on Sunday.

Twitter
Screengrab of Sohaib Athar’s twitter page.

The man, who uses the Twitter handle “ReallyVirtual”, identifies himself as Sohaib Athar, “an IT consultant taking a break from the rat-race by hiding in the mountains with his laptops.”

Around 11 hours ago, according to the Twitter timeline, Mr. Athar first tweeted about a helicopter hovering above him at 1 a.m., saying it was a “rare event” for Abbottabad. That would have been at about 3.30 p.m. Eastern time on Sunday.

Still, Mr. Athar seems to have thought of it as a mere annoyance, as his next tweet was “Go away helicopter – before I take out my giant swatter :-/”

Within minutes, he tweeted: “A huge window shaking bang here in Abbottabad Cantt. I hope its not the start of something nasty :-S”.

After a while when the sound of the helicopter stopped following a blast, Mr. Athar tweeted “seems like my giant swatter worked !”

That was followed by a Twitter discussion about what had happened. He wrote to “@m0hcin the few people online at this time of the night are saying one of the copters was not Pakistani…”

Mr. Athar noted that “Since taliban (probably) don’t have helicpoters, and since they’re saying it was not ‘ours’, so must be a complicated situation#abbottabad”

Over the next two hours, Mr. Athar exchanged messages with a few other Twitter users about what had happened, learning that there was a helicopter crash. They wondered whether it was an attack or an accident.

“And now I feel I must apologize to the pilot about the swatter tweets :-/” tweeted Mr. Athar. He retweeted “ibi2010 Ibrar Ali , who said: 1 dead and 1 injured in Abbottabad for heli crashed.”

Mr, Athar seems to have gone offline for a few hours, resurfacing this morning to tweet: “interesting rumors in the otherwise uneventful Abbottabad air today.” Shortly thereafter, Mr. Athar figured out what had happened.

He retweeted a tweet from Munzir Naqvi: “I think the helicopter crash in Abbottabad, Pakistan and the President Obama breaking news address are connected.”

Mr. Athar was clearly unhappy.

“I guess Abbottabad is going to get as crowded as the Lahore that I left behind for some peace and quiet. *sigh*”

Shortly thereafter, another Twitter user confirmed the news. Mr. Athar tweeted “RT @ISuckBigTime: Osama Bin Laden killed in Abbottabad, Pakistan.: ISI has confirmed it << Uh oh, there goes the neighborhood :-/””

As the Twitter world discovered Mr. Athar’s live tweets from last night, thousands of followers have added him in the last few hours.

Two hours ago, he wrote: “Uh oh, now I’m the guy who liveblogged the Osama raid without knowing it.”

Mr. Athar has apparently also been bombarded by email and other requests. “For the people who are trying to email me to reach me, I simply can’t filter out the notifications from the emails :-( “ he wrote.

Mr. Athar opened his Twitter account in May 2007, and had only around 750 followers as of April 30, according to Web site twittercounter.com. He now has around 13,000 and counting.

Follow Ms. Anand @shefalianand.

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Sumku
02 May 11,, 09:48
Congrats to all men who participated in this Op and for making world a little bit safer. I hear that he died from a single shot in his head and has been buried in sea. Thats' good news however he should have been treated just like he treated his prisoners...his throat slit - body kicked - Video Shot and posted and body cremated ONLY after 24 hours.

citanon
02 May 11,, 09:54
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4671825/new-details-on-mission-that-killed-bin-laden#/v/4671914/us-navy-seals-raided-bin-laden-compound/?playlist_id=87485

Updates:

Raid was launched in 4 helicopters from Afghanistan, 1 had a mechanical problem.
~40 Navy Seals, half of which entered the compound.
They had been practicing for over a week.
OBL was offered a chance to surrender before the shooting started.
Pakistanis were not informed before the mission was under way.

Dago
02 May 11,, 10:01
Yeah I heard that also, 40 Navy Seals. Not small in which Obama's speech indicated. But you know what, a large enough force, too handle anything Pakistani would of threw at them if they dare. This was a sure go thing here.

citanon
02 May 11,, 10:07
Bin Laden Captured Through Detective Work - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/02/world/asia/02reconstruct-capture-osama-bin-laden.html?hp=&pagewanted=print)



May 2, 2011
Detective Work on Courier Led to Breakthrough on Bin Laden
By MARK MAZZETTI and HELENE COOPER

WASHINGTON — After years of dead ends and promising leads gone cold, the big break came last August.

A trusted courier of Osama bin Laden’s whom American spies had been hunting for years was finally located in a compound 35 miles north of the Pakistani capital, close to one of the hubs of American counterterrorism operations. The property was so secure, so large, that American officials guessed it was built to hide someone far more important than a mere courier.

What followed was eight months of painstaking intelligence work, culminating in a helicopter assault by American military and intelligence operatives that ended in the death of Bin Laden on Sunday and concluded one of history’s most extensive and frustrating manhunts.

American officials said that Bin Laden was shot in the head after he tried to resist the assault force, and that one of his sons died with him.

For nearly a decade, American military and intelligence forces had chased the specter of Bin Laden through Pakistan and Afghanistan, once coming agonizingly close and losing him in a pitched battle at Tora Bora, in the mountains of eastern Afghanistan. As Obama administration officials described it, the real breakthrough came when they finally figured out the name and location of Bin Laden’s most trusted courier, whom the Qaeda chief appeared to rely on to maintain contacts with the outside world.

Detainees at the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, had given the courier’s pseudonym to American interrogators and said that the man was a protégé of Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the confessed mastermind of the Sept. 11 attacks.

American intelligence officials said Sunday night that they finally learned the courier’s real name four years ago, but that it took another two years for them to learn the general region where he operated.

Still, it was not until August when they tracked him to the compound in Abbottabad, a medium-sized city about an hour’s drive north of Islamabad, the capital.

C.I.A. analysts spent the next several weeks examining satellite photos and intelligence reports to determine who might be living at the compound, and a senior administration official said that by September the C.I.A. had determined there was a “strong possibility” that Bin Laden himself was hiding there.

It was hardly the spartan cave in the mountains where many had envisioned Bin Laden to be hiding. Rather, it was a mansion on the outskirts of the town’s center, set on an imposing hilltop and ringed by 12-foot-high concrete walls topped with barbed wire.

The property was valued at $1 million, but it had neither a telephone nor an Internet connection. Its residents were so concerned about security that they burned their trash rather putting it on the street for collection like their neighbors.

American officials believed that the compound, built in 2005, was designed for the specific purpose of hiding Bin Laden.

Months more of intelligence work would follow before American spies felt highly confident that it was indeed Bin Laden and his family who were hiding in there — and before President Obama determined that the intelligence was solid enough to begin planning a mission to go after the Qaeda leader.

On March 14, Mr. Obama held the first of what would be five national security meetings in the course of the next six weeks to go over plans for the operation.

The meetings, attended by only the president’s closest national security aides, took place as other White House officials scrambled to avert a possible government shutdown over the budget.

Four more similar meetings to discuss the plan would follow, until President Obama gathered his aides one final time last Friday.

At 8:20 that morning, Mr. Obama met with Thomas Donilon, the national security adviser; John O. Brennan, the counterterrorism adviser; and other senior aides in the Diplomatic Room at the White House. The president was traveling to Alabama later that morning to witness the damage from last week’s tornadoes. But first he had to sign off on the final plan to send intelligence operatives into the compound where the administration believed that Bin Laden was hiding.

Even after the president signed the formal orders authorizing the raid, Mr. Obama chose to keep Pakistan’s government in the dark about the operation.

“We shared our intelligence on this compound with no other country, including Pakistan,” a senior administration official said.

It is no surprise that the administration chose not to tell Pakistani officials. Even though the Pakistanis had insisted that Bin Laden was not in their country, the United States never really believed it. American diplomatic cables in recent years show constant American pressure on Pakistan to help find and kill Bin Laden.

Asked about the Qaeda leader’s whereabouts during a Congressional visit to Islamabad in September 2009, the Pakistani interior minister, Rehman Malik, replied that he “’had no clue,” but added that he did not believe that Bin Laden was in the area. Bin Laden had sent his family to Iran, so it made sense that he might have gone there himself, Mr. Malik argued. Alternatively, he might be hiding in Saudi Arabia or Yemen, or perhaps he was already dead, he added, according to a cable from the American Embassy that is among the collection obtained by WikiLeaks.

The mutual suspicions have grown worse in recent months, particularly after Raymond Davis, a C.I.A. officer, shot two men on a crowded street in Lahore in January.

On Sunday, the small team of American military and intelligence operatives poured out of helicopters for their attack on the heavily fortified compound.

American officials gave few details about the raid itself, other than to say that a firefight broke out shortly after the commandos arrived and that Bin Laden had tried to “resist the assault force.”

When the shooting had stopped, Bin Laden and three other men lay dead. One woman, whom an American official said had been used as a human shield by one of the Qaeda operatives, was also killed.

The Americans collected Bin Laden’s body and loaded it onto one of the remaining helicopters, and the assault force hastily left the scene.

Obama administration officials said that one of helicopters went down during the mission because of mechanical failure but that no Americans were injured.

It was 3:50 on Sunday afternoon when President Obama received the news that Bin Laden had tentatively been identified, most likely after a series of DNA tests.

The Qaeda leader’s body was flown to Afghanistan, the country where he made his fame fighting and killing Soviet troops during the 1980s.

From there, American officials said, the body was buried at sea.

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DOR
02 May 11,, 10:18
A military/intelligence retirement community less than 2 hours north of Islamabad.
No wonder Pakistan had no idea where he was!

Well done, and if I read the reports correctly, without American casualities.
Extremely well done!

cirrrocco
02 May 11,, 10:21
A military/intelligence retirement community less than 2 hours north of Islamabad.
No wonder Pakistan had no idea where he was!

Well done, and if I read the reports correctly, without American casualities.
Extremely well done!

and also 700 mets from Pak Army training academy [equivalent of US west point] . Yeah the paks didnt know about it at all.

Aussiegunner
02 May 11,, 10:22
JAD,sir,OBL was there in a golden cage.But for ISI to let the man roam free is simply impossible.I have no idea why the wait(could be anything),but if the Americans knew where he was,they also knew he was in Pakistani hands.The very fact that it was such a long wait proves however there was no reason to hurry.Your guys were certain he was not getting out alive.Those are the only facts we have so far.Much is yet to be told,but given the stakes in this matter,I won't care too much about what the officials say,but try to read between the lines.

There is no truth in news and no news in truth.

That's just pure speculation. Think about all the wanted criminals who get around in our own countries for a very long time without being captured. It would have been easier still for one man of means to live in a country of 170 million people, where most men where headgear and have a beard, without being noticed. You can "read between the lines" all you want, but the fact is that you or nobody else who only has access to material in the public domain actually knows how the intelligence leading to his assasination was obtained or whether there was any deal between the Pakistani's and the US, and we probably won't for a very long time if ever.

Edit - it seems we do know how the intelligence was collected from the article posted around the same time as this post. No mention of any deals with Pakistan, just good intelligence work. Well done.

Parihaka
02 May 11,, 10:42
A Pakistani Urdu Channel is saying that probably anti air craft gun was used to down Helicopter.

However it was damaged, the team blew it up as they withdrew. i'm wondering whether that is SOP regardless of the area it's lost in.

IHM
02 May 11,, 10:58
Friends,

I'm wondering no body raises critical questions about the dead body. That must be a good riddance provided that he is the original version of Obama. So far, I have not seen anything except his wicked face on the media. I want the US intelligence to produce some substantive evidence that corroborate their claims.

I don't want to have a party unless I am assured of this good riddance :)

Cactus
02 May 11,, 11:22
Good riddance... and congrats to all who made the ridding possible.

tankie
02 May 11,, 11:22
And the word now is ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,VIGILANCE .

Double Edge
02 May 11,, 11:37
From there, American officials said, the body was buried at sea.
Now, why on earth did they do this :confused:

Why no public display of the corpse ?

Oh, OBL is dead and you have seen evidence of this !!

Have to say this took me by surprise as i've always maintained the US would NEVER get him. Too protected too valuable, etc.

If true its good news. But it means Pakistan is in an awkward position now.

Or they sold him out for a bigger prize. But we are told they knew nothing of the attack.

Bigfella
02 May 11,, 11:43
I rarely delight in the death of another human, but I'm willing to make exceptions. Congratulations to all those involved from the intel guys who found the needle to the brave men who went in & took him out.

it is impossible to believe that there weren't people in the ISI at the very least who had an idea where he was. Be interesting to see how this plays out in the longer term viz US/Pakistani relations.

Mihais
02 May 11,, 11:47
That's just pure speculation. Think about all the wanted criminals who get around in our own countries for a very long time without being captured. It would have been easier still for one man of means to live in a country of 170 million people, where most men where headgear and have a beard, without being noticed. You can "read between the lines" all you want, but the fact is that you or nobody else who only has access to material in the public domain actually knows how the intelligence leading to his assasination was obtained or whether there was any deal between the Pakistani's and the US, and we probably won't for a very long time if ever.

Edit - it seems we do know how the intelligence was collected from the article posted around the same time as this post. No mention of any deals with Pakistan, just good intelligence work. Well done.

Of course it's a speculation.Did I said otherwise?
I'll let you the pleasure of finding questions marks in that article:cool: .
I find no particular reason for joy and I do have serious doubts about this bussiness.Not that I favor OBL,but because this is nothing but emotional hogwash.Greater things are at stake here.Talk again about this in a few weeks or months.

Bigfella
02 May 11,, 11:55
def.pk is in meltdown. JANA, otherwise known as Farzana Shah a half-wit journalist for the Asian Tribune is reporting OBL was killed a week ago and the body handed over to U.S. authorities. It's also being suggested the crashed chopper (destroyed) was Pakistani. They cannot imagine that we kept this on close hold since last August without their knowledge, approval and participation.


...and let the conspiracy theories begin. The claims that it is not him are already gaining credence among the sort of people inclined to believe such things. I wonder how long until they have the support on the scale of 'troofer/birther fantasies? Anyone want to lay bets on how long it takes for this to be linked to the release of the birth certificate? (I'm not risking any butter cookies, 'odds on look on' as the punters say).

n21
02 May 11,, 11:58
Good riddance of a piece of s***. Given that sharks are going rips his body apart, he is not going anywhere near "heaven".

I was expecting him to be found near Rawalpindi or Karachi. His compound was near PA academy and more importantly near a military hospital. It is known OBL was sick and no ordinary doctors would have treated him and allowed to live. Hence had to be a PA/ISI doctor.

The lady killed must have been a nurse.

calass
02 May 11,, 12:06
Rest with the fishes Osama...great day.

ambidex
02 May 11,, 12:07
Balli Bomber Umar Patek was caught from the same city Abbotabad couple of weeks back.

India has marked Attobabad having terrorist camps, many years back. Its very near to ~Azad Kashmir.

kato
02 May 11,, 12:32
Now, why on earth did they do this :confused:
Why no public display of the corpse ?

Seriously? Aside from the whole there being no grave for pilgrims thing there's the Muslim burial rules - which mandate that "if there is a danger that the enemy will dig up the grave to take ears or nose or limbs from the body" (trophies, that is), then a burial at sea shall be preferred, using a place where no sea predators will assault the corpse and weighing it down or placing it in a clay coffin so it's assured to sink to the bottom.


Given that sharks are going rips his body apart, he is not going anywhere near "heaven".
Doubt they used any shark-infested waters. Would be in a crass counter to the above.

bonehead
02 May 11,, 12:35
US kills Osama bin Laden decade after 9/11 attacks - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_bin_laden)

Thats going to be quite the feather in Obama's cap when he runs again in 2012.

tim52
02 May 11,, 12:43
Woke up this morning to the news that US forces put paid to OBL and all of a sudden my Monday morning is looking considerably brighter.

Many thanks are owed to the countless men and women of our intelligence services and military forces that helped to closed the book on this piece of garbage.

Cheers!

Double Edge
02 May 11,, 12:44
Seriously? Aside from the whole there being no grave for pilgrims thing there's the Muslim burial rules - which mandate that "if there is a danger that the enemy will dig up the grave to take ears or nose or limbs from the body" (trophies, that is), then a burial at sea shall be preferred, using a place where no sea predators will assault the corpse and weighing it down or placing it in a clay coffin so it's assured to sink to the bottom.
Yes, seriously !

Did not ask for a public burial or marked grave.

Meant a show & tell like we had with Saddam's sons. Pictures of his corpse splashed on newspapers worldwide. Not going to happen now is it.

Now that i think about it, those pics still might appear in a day or two.

Red Seven
02 May 11,, 13:19
A masterpiece of intelligence, a superbly coordinated special operation, a successful raid, a great victory. Cheers and congratulations to all involved at CIA and JSOC, bravo and well done. Only wish I had been there to help nail that sonofabitch. In the end it was our military that killed him, fittingly, close-up and personal with a bullet in the brain.

NeilE
02 May 11,, 13:23
I think there was a lot of anger towards the US when the photos of Sadaam's sons were shown after being killed so perhaps the US don't want a repeat of that reaction.

It feels odd to celebrate a man's death (no matter who it is) but I think in this case we can make an exception, the world is a better place without him.

Now, the question is why was he 30kms from the capital of the ISI, Islamabad, and why was he 100metres from a building where ISI officials frequent? I find it very hard to believe that no one made enquiries about a heavily fortified building with barbed wire in a location where military and intelligence officials both live and work.

astralis
02 May 11,, 13:30
what a freakin' great day. i'm torn between whether i'm glad we nailed that bastard or if only we could've strung him up slowly like he deserved.

Julie
02 May 11,, 13:32
The mansion Osama was in was built in 2005 and in the name of his two brothers, and built very close to ISI security services for protection. Pakistan knew he was there and was protecting him all this time. I hope we do not flow any more money to these scumbags. :mad:

astralis
02 May 11,, 13:35
from the NYT piece:


When the end came for Bin Laden, he was found not in the remote tribal areas along the Pakistani-Afghan border where he has long been presumed to be sheltered, but in a massive compound about an hour’s drive north from the Pakistani capital of Islamabad. He was hiding in the medium-sized city of Abbottabad, home to a large Pakistani military base and a military academy of the Pakistani Army.

Bin Laden Is Dead, Obama Says

----

By PETER BAKER, HELENE COOPER and MARK MAZZETTI
Published: May 1, 2011

WASHINGTON — Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the most devastating attack on American soil in modern times and the most hunted man in the world, was killed in a firefight with United States forces in Pakistan, President Obama announced on Sunday night.

In a dramatic late-night appearance in the East Room of the White House, Mr. Obama declared that “justice has been done” as he disclosed that American military and C.I.A. operatives had finally cornered Bin Laden, the Al Qaeda leader who had eluded them for nearly a decade. American officials said Bin Laden resisted and was shot in the head. He was later buried at sea.

The news touched off an extraordinary outpouring of emotion as crowds gathered outside the White House, in Times Square and at the Ground Zero site, waving American flags, cheering, shouting, laughing and chanting, “U.S.A., U.S.A.!” In New York City, crowds sang “The Star-Spangled Banner.” Throughout downtown Washington, drivers honked horns deep into the night.

“For over two decades, Bin Laden has been Al Qaeda’s leader and symbol,” the president said in a statement televised around the world. “The death of Bin Laden marks the most significant achievement to date in our nation’s effort to defeat Al Qaeda. But his death does not mark the end of our effort. There’s no doubt that Al Qaeda will continue to pursue attacks against us. We must and we will remain vigilant at home and abroad.”

Bin Laden’s demise is a defining moment in the American-led fight against terrorism, a symbolic stroke affirming the relentlessness of the pursuit of those who attacked New York and Washington on Sept. 11, 2001. What remains to be seen, however, is whether it galvanizes Bin Laden’s followers by turning him into a martyr or serves as a turning of the page in the war in Afghanistan and gives further impetus to Mr. Obama to bring American troops home.

How much his death will affect Al Qaeda itself remains unclear. For years, as they failed to find him, American leaders have said that he was more symbolically important than operationally significant because he was on the run and hindered in any meaningful leadership role. And yet, he remained the most potent face of terrorism around the world and some of those who played down his role in recent years nonetheless celebrated his death.

Given Bin Laden’s status among radicals, the American government braced for possible retaliation. A senior Pentagon official said late Sunday that military bases in the United States and around the world were ordered to a higher state of readiness. The State Department issued a worldwide travel warning, urging Americans in volatile areas “to limit their travel outside of their homes and hotels and avoid mass gatherings and demonstrations.”

The strike could exacerbate deep tensions with Pakistan, which has periodically bristled at American counterterrorism efforts even as Bin Laden evidently found safe refuge on its territory for nearly a decade. Since taking office, Mr. Obama has ordered significantly more drone strikes on suspected terrorist targets in Pakistan, stirring public anger there and prompting the Pakistani government to protest.

When the end came for Bin Laden, he was found not in the remote tribal areas along the Pakistani-Afghan border where he has long been presumed to be sheltered, but in a massive compound about an hour’s drive north from the Pakistani capital of Islamabad. He was hiding in the medium-sized city of Abbottabad, home to a large Pakistani military base and a military academy of the Pakistani Army.

The house at the end of a narrow dirt road was roughly eight times larger than other homes in the area, but had no telephone or Internet connections. When American operatives converged on the house on Sunday, Bin Laden “resisted the assault force” and was killed in the middle of an intense gun battle, a senior administration official said, but details were still sketchy early Monday morning.

The official said that military and intelligence officials first learned last summer that a “high-value target” was being protected in the compound and began working on a plan for going in to get him. Beginning in March, Mr. Obama presided over five national security meetings at the White House to go over plans for the operation and on Friday morning, just before leaving Washington to tour tornado damage in Alabama, gave the final order for special forces and C.I.A. operatives to strike.

Mr. Obama called it a “targeted operation,” although officials said one helicopter was lost because of a mechanical failure and had to be destroyed to keep it from falling into hostile hands.

In addition to Bin Laden, three men were killed during the 40-minute raid, one believed to be his son and the other two his couriers, according to an American official who briefed reporters under White House ground rules forbidding further identification. A woman was killed when she was used as a shield by a male combatant, the official said, and two others wounded.

“No Americans were harmed,” Mr. Obama said. “They took care to avoid civilian casualties. After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body.” Muslim tradition requires burial within 24 hours, but by doing it at sea, American authorities presumably were trying to avoid creating a shrine for his followers.

The fate of Ayman al-Zawahiri, the Al Qaeda second-in-command, was unclear Sunday night.

Bin Laden’s death came nearly 10 years after Al Qaeda terrorists hijacked four American passenger jets, crashing three of them into the World Trade Center in New York and the Pentagon outside Washington. The fourth hijacked jet, United Flight 93, crashed into the Pennsylvania countryside after passengers fought the militants.

“This is important news for us, and for the world,” said Gordon Felt, president of the group Families of Flight 93. “It cannot ease our pain, or bring back our loved ones. It does bring a measure of comfort that the mastermind of the September 11th tragedy and the face of global terror can no longer spread his evil.”

The mostly young people who celebrated in the streets of New York and Washington saw it as a historic moment, one that for many of them culminated a worldwide manhunt that started when they were children.

Some climbed trees and lampposts directly in front of the White House to cheer and wave flags. Cigars and noisemakers were common. One group started singing, “Osama, Osama, hey, hey, hey, goodbye.”

Maureen Hasson, 22, a recent college graduate working for the Justice Department, came down to Lafayette Square in a fuchsia party dress and flip-flops. “This is full circle for our generation,” she said. “Just look around at the average age here. We were all in middle school when the terrorists struck. We all vividly remember 9/11 and this is the close of that chapter.”

Sam Sherman, 18, a freshman at George Washington University originally from New York, also rushed down to the White House. “The feeling you can’t even imagine, the feeling in the air. It’s crazy,” he said. “I have friends with parents dead because of Osama bin Laden’s plan, O.K.? So when I heard this news, I was coming down to celebrate.”

Mr. Obama said Pakistan had helped develop the intelligence that led to Bin Laden, but an American official said the Pakistani government was not informed about the strike in advance. “We shared our intelligence on this compound with no other country, including Pakistan,” the official said.

Mr. Obama recalled his statements in the 2008 presidential campaign when he vowed to order American forces to strike inside Pakistan if necessary even without Islamabad’s permission. “That is what we’ve done,” he said. “But it’s important to note that our counterterrorism cooperation with Pakistan helped lead us to Bin Laden and the compound where he was hiding.”

Relations with Pakistan had fallen in recent weeks to their lowest point in years. Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, publicly criticized the Pakistani military two weeks ago for failing to act against extremists allied to Al Qaeda who shelter in the tribal areas of North Waziristan. Last week, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, head of the Pakistani Army, said Pakistan had broken the back of terrorism on its territory, prompting skepticism in Washington.

Mr. Obama called President Asif Ali Zardari of Pakistan to tell him about the strike after it was set in motion, and his advisers called their Pakistani counterparts. “They agree that this is a good and historic day for both of our nations,” Mr. Obama said.

The city of Abbottabad where Bin Laden was found has had other known Al Qaeda presence in the past. A senior Indonesian militant, Umar Patek, was arrested there earlier this year. Mr. Patek was protected by a Qaeda operative, a clerk who worked undercover at the main post office, a signal that Al Qaeda may have had other operations in the area.

As the operation’s start approached, many American officials at the United States consulate in Peshawar, the capital of the northwest area of Pakistan, were told suddenly to depart last Friday, leaving behind only a core group of essential staff. The American officials said they had been told to leave because of fears of kidnapping but were not tipped off to the operation.

Analysts said Bin Laden’s death amounted to a double blow for Al Qaeda, after its sermons of anti-Western violence seemed to be rendered irrelevant by the wave of political upheaval rolling through the Arab world.

“It comes at a time when Al Qaeda’s narrative is already very much in doubt in the Arab world,” said Martin S. Indyk, vice president and director of foreign policy at the Brookings Institution. “Its narrative was that violence was the way to redeem Arab honor and dignity. But Osama bin Laden and his violence didn’t succeed in unseating anybody.”

Al Qaeda sympathizers reacted with disbelief, anger and in some cases talk of retribution. On a Web site considered an outlet for Al Qaeda messages, forum administrators deleted posts by users announcing Bin Laden’s death and demanded that members wait until the news was confirmed by Al Qaeda sources, according to the SITE Intelligence Group, an organization that monitors radicals.

Even so, SITE said, sympathizers on the forum posted messages calling Bin Laden a martyr and suggesting retaliation. “America will reap the same if the news is true and false,” said one message. “The lions will remain lions and will continue moving in the footsteps of Usama,” said another, using an alternate spelling of Bin Laden’s name.

In the United States, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, an advocacy organization, said it welcomed Bin Laden’s death. “As we have stated repeatedly since the 9/11 terror attacks, Bin Laden never represented Muslims or Islam,” the group said in a statement. “In fact, in addition to the killing of thousands of Americans, he and Al Qaeda caused the deaths of countless Muslims worldwide.”

Mr. Obama called to inform his predecessor, George W. Bush, who first launched the war against Al Qaeda after Sept. 11, yet was frustrated in his efforts to capture Bin Laden “dead or alive,” as he once put it. “This momentous achievement marks a victory for America, for people who seek peace around the world, and for all those who lost loved ones on September 11, 2001,” Mr. Bush said in a statement. “The fight against terror goes on, but tonight America has sent an unmistakable message: No matter how long it takes, justice will be done.”

President Obama used similar language and warned that the war against terrorists had not ended. “We will be relentless in defense of our citizens and our friends and allies. We will be true to the values that make us who we are. And on nights like this one, we can say to those families who have lost loved ones to Al Qaeda’s terror, justice has been done.”

The president was careful to add that, as Mr. Bush did during his presidency, the United States is not at war with Islam. “Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader; he was a mass murderer of Muslims,” Mr. Obama said. “Indeed, Al Qaeda has slaughtered scores of Muslims in many countries, including our own. So his demise should be welcomed by all who believe in peace and human dignity."

Red Seven
02 May 11,, 13:40
The mansion Osama was in was built in 2005 and in the name of his two brothers, and built very close to ISI security services for protection. Pakistan knew he was there and was protecting him all this time.


Yeah, nice "cave." ISI's the reason it's taken us 10 years.

Double Edge
02 May 11,, 13:40
I think there was a lot of anger towards the US when the photos of Sadaam's sons were shown after being killed so perhaps the US don't want a repeat of that reaction.
Hmm...we will see whether the pics appear or not.


It feels odd to celebrate a man's death (no matter who it is) but I think in this case we can make an exception, the world is a better place without him.
Yeah, but the articles say he resisted capture so will take it that OBL was given a choice. Had he surrendered he would have made a prize catch.


Now, the question is why was he 30kms from the capital of the ISI, Islamabad, and why was he 100metres from a building where ISI officials frequent? I find it very hard to believe that no one made enquiries about a heavily fortified building with barbed wire in a location where military and intelligence officials both live and work.
Right, and the media in India is going to make big play out of it.

But if a deal was worked out, then the adminstration in Pakistan just sold out a legend (to his supporters anyway). Making good for past wrongs. Does that balance things out or not ?

Course they will make it appear otherwise and go on about how they had no knowledge about this whatsoever and even make it out to be an illegal operation on soverign territory, just so that they don't get lynched by their own people :)

ambidex
02 May 11,, 13:58
However it was damaged, the team blew it up as they withdrew. i'm wondering whether that is SOP regardless of the area it's lost in.

This is the picture. The wreckage is covered by some marriage tents (used in that part of the world). Just over the boundary wall of that house. I can not figure it out which type of helicopter is this.

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-67465-11.html

Picture link not working

Another link with more pictures, people trying to clear the area. See picture number 11 and 12.
http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-67465-12.html

Officer of Engineers
02 May 11,, 14:01
I rarely delight in the death of another human, but I'm willing to make exceptions. Congratulations to all those involved from the intel guys who found the needle to the brave men who went in & took him out.I keep catching myself on this. If you enjoy the death of a bad man, then the slope to enjoying the death of a good man is very, very greasy.

But damned, I feel good.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 14:03
[Updated, 12:11 a.m. ET] Members of Pakistan's intelligence service - the ISI - were on site in Abbotabad, Pakistan, during the operation that killed Osama bin Laden, CNN's Nick Paton Walsh reports, citing a senior Pakistani intelligence official. The official said he did not know who fired the shot that actually killed Bin Laden.
Bin Laden killed in Pakistan, Obama says – This Just In - CNN.com Blogs (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/02/obama-to-make-statment-tonight-subject-unknown/?hpt=T1)

This is a great day, i am so happy today. This man got what he deserved, he has the blood of thousands of innocent people on his hands.

Seconded.

Would be posting on defence.pk, but site appears to have suffered a traffic overload and crashed.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 14:14
They cannot imagine that we kept this on close hold since last August without their knowledge, approval and participation.
One could also argue that 'they' (people such as you) cannot imagine that the operation was conducted with Pakistan's 'knowledge, approval and participation'.


http://video.foxnews.com/v/4671825/new-details-on-mission-that-killed-bin-laden#/v/4671914/us-navy-seals-raided-bin-laden-compound/?playlist_id=87485

Updates:

Raid was launched in 4 helicopters from Afghanistan, 1 had a mechanical problem.
~40 Navy Seals, half of which entered the compound.
They had been practicing for over a week.
OBL was offered a chance to surrender before the shooting started.
Pakistanis were not informed before the mission was under way.

Nonsensical fairytale for the 'Rambo types'.

4 Choppers flying out of Afghanistan, across Pakistan towards the Capital and into a city housing a premier military academy, unnoticed and unapproved, is just not going to happen.

Reports out of Pakistan, including eyewitness reports, indicating 5 to 6 choppers, heavy gunfire and one crash (likely due to the gun fire) with choppers flying out of Tarbela (which would indicate SSG involvement).

Zad Fnark
02 May 11,, 14:15
Huzzah!

I would have disposed of the body via a pagan sacrifice to a Volcano God somewhere, but that's just me.

ZF-

Officer of Engineers
02 May 11,, 14:16
First reports are always wrong. Take the facts that can be confirmed. Wait for the rest.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 14:20
...and let the conspiracy theories begin. The claims that it is not him are already gaining credence among the sort of people inclined to believe such things.

I would imagine that US officials would have factored that into their plans, which is why I see little reason for burying the body at sea so quickly. While such a means of disposal of the body eventually is a good idea, the body should be kept and journalists/concerned officials globally, allowed access for a limited time to confirm his death and eliminate any rumors.

Zad Fnark
02 May 11,, 14:21
True.

News outlets are just chasing every rumor at this point. When I was roused from bed by my son last night (texting from bed - have to put a stop to that), the impression I had that this was all via Predator.

ZF-

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 14:25
Balli Bomber Umar Patek was caught from the same city Abbotabad couple of weeks back.
Again, by Pakistani security forces.

If Pakistan was actually using the area to 'hide terrorists', we certainly would not be announcing their capture (or capturing them) from the same location.

Smart idea on the part of OBL though - hide where you would be least expected to - right under the noses of the security forces.

Chogy
02 May 11,, 14:28
Allow me to don the mantle of a 14-year old for a moment with a childish thought...

"I'd like to see him embalmed in pork fat, wrapped in pig skins, and then fed to dogs. This man was no Muslim. Why should his faith be respected."

But I understand why they disposed of him as they did. I hope the evidence gathered prior to his sea-creature buffet ending is incontrovertible, and will be published.

Hang on to your hats for more conspiracies than the 9-11 "truther" gang.

On PAK.df - I haven't been there in weeks. It was intolerable on an intellectual level.

Swift Sword
02 May 11,, 14:30
Well, I am certainly not disappointed.

Yippee!

However, if history is to be our guide, it is probably safe to say that the Crusade will supply a new and more terrible boogeyman to justify its continued existence while the Jihad will find new hubs about which to turn as it wages its bloody trade.

Was it Keirkegaard (did I even spell that right???) who said "when the tyrant dies, his rule ends but when the martyr dies his rule begins"? Hopefully, Mr.
Bin Laden is discredited enough to gain little or no traction as a martyr.


Regards,

William

notorious_eagle
02 May 11,, 14:43
The mansion Osama was in was built in 2005 and in the name of his two brothers, and built very close to ISI security services for protection. Pakistan knew he was there and was protecting him all this time. I hope we do not flow any more money to these scumbags. :mad:

Yes indeed, the WOT has taken the lives of 30 000 innocent Pakistanis but you are right ISI is such a rogue agency that it supports the killing of its own people, wonderful rationality :S. The whole operation was conducted in cooperation with Pakistan and ISI's agents and SSG commandos were present in the operation throughout, just talked to my uncle whose a very senior member in Pakistan's Armed Forces. I second what you are saying, i really hope the US does not gives a single cent to Pakistan.

Julie
02 May 11,, 14:51
Yes indeed, the WOT has taken the lives of 30 000 innocent Pakistanis but you are right ISI is such a rogue agency that it supports the killing of its own people, wonderful rationality :S. The whole operation was conducted in cooperation with Pakistan and ISI's agents and SSG commandos were present in the operation throughout, just talked to my uncle whose a very senior member in Pakistan's Armed Forces. I second what you are saying, i really hope the US does not gives a single cent to Pakistan.Our reports are saying that Pakistan was NOT informed of the raid.

My point was if the property was in Osama's brothers' names, why wasn't a periodic property records check done and a connection made like 5 years ago when the 1 million dollar mansion was built?

JAD_333
02 May 11,, 14:51
I would imagine that US officials would have factored that into their plans, which is why I see little reason for burying the body at sea so quickly. While such a means of disposal of the body eventually is a good idea, the body should be kept and journalists/concerned officials globally, allowed access for a limited time to confirm his death and eliminate any rumors.

As hated as he was, following Islamic rules for burial means one less thing to stir up his followers and indeed all Muslims.

notorious_eagle
02 May 11,, 14:52
Seconded.

Would be posting on defence.pk, but site appears to have suffered a traffic overload and crashed.

That sucks, i really wanted to go there and release the info my uncle told me.

notorious_eagle
02 May 11,, 14:59
Our reports are saying that Pakistan was NOT informed of the raid.

My point was if the property was in Osama's brothers' names, why wasn't a periodic property records check done and a connection made like 5 years ago when the 1 million dollar mansion was built?

Do you honestly think this raid can be conducted without Pakistan's Armed Forces approval, i could understand if this raid was at some distant location near the Afghanistan's border but not Abbottabad. PMA Kakul is based over there, within minutes Pakistani commandos would have been mobilized. This is not some Hollywood movie where a bunch of Navy SEALS would have destroyed a whole battalion of opposing commandos. Anyways thats not important, i talked to my uncle whose in a very senior position in Pakistan's Armed Forces. He confirmed it, elements of ISI and SSG were present at the location and ISI knew about this whole operation all along. Americans were allowed to conduct the operation because after all, it is their war and ISI is more than happy to stay back in the shadows.

zraver
02 May 11,, 15:00
However it was damaged, the team blew it up as they withdrew. i'm wondering whether that is SOP regardless of the area it's lost in.


It was probably an MH-60 Pavehawk in which case anywhere it sets down and can't lift off from that is not easily secured will see it destroyed. hell China would fund the Pakistani government for a year in trade for one of those.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 15:00
Google maps link to sat image of compound and location of PMA.

Osama bin Laden's Compound, Abbottbad, Pakistan - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Osama+bin+Laden's+Compound,+Abbott%C4%81bad,+Pak istan&aq=0&sll=34.146325,73.216984&sspn=0.001678,0.003152&ie=UTF8&hq=Osama+bin+Laden's+Compound,&hnear=Abbott%C4%81bad,+Abbottabad,+Khyber+Pakhtunk hwa,+Pakistan&t=h&ll=34.184329,73.251815&spn=0.019455,0.058622&z=15)

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 15:07
Our reports are saying that Pakistan was NOT informed of the raid.
Your reports make no sense.


My point was if the property was in Osama's brothers' names, why wasn't a periodic property records check done and a connection made like 5 years ago when the 1 million dollar mansion was built?
You are assuming that the governance in Pakistan is as organized and efficient as it is in the US.

And we really don't know whether the property was in the Osama brothers name for sure - if it was in their name then that would appear to be a huge mistake on the part of OBL and his associates. Such records would be accessible to civilians and anything linked to the Bin Laden family would be a likely target.

Pakistani TV reports are suggesting the house was built by a man from KP province.

zraver
02 May 11,, 15:08
Do you honestly think this raid can be conducted without Pakistan's Armed Forces approval,

Yes, I mean look at all the groups that stage out of Pakistan and launch attacks inside Pakistan and elsewhere. If you can't track taliban or find a man living in a million dollar compound down the street from your main military academy, you won't notice a SEAL Team. Unless of course your willing to admit the ISI knew where he and other militants were all along?




i could understand if this raid was at some distant location near the Afghanistan's border but not Abbottabad. PMA Kakul is based over there, within minutes Pakistani commandos would have been mobilized. This is not some Hollywood movie where a bunch of Navy SEALS would have destroyed a whole battalion of opposing commandos. Anyways thats not important, i talked to my uncle whose in a very senior position in Pakistan's Armed Forces. He confirmed it, elements of ISI and SSG were present at the location and ISI knew about this whole operation all along. Americans were allowed to conduct the operation because after all, it is their war and ISI is more than happy to stay back in the shadows.

Well I don't doubt the ISI knew where the Americans wanted to go, who they wanted to get when they got there, and where "where" actually was. Everyone knew the US was hunting him.

If anything the SEAL grabbed up some Pakistani military attache threw him in the helo, breifed him on the flight over and after relieving him of the ability to let anyone know where he was or what he now knew.

We both know if the US had spilled the beans before OBL was already dead the compund would have been empty.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 15:13
As hated as he was, following Islamic rules for burial means one less thing to stir up his followers and indeed all Muslims.

I see your point, but I also think the argument that his burial site might turn into a 'shrine for extremists' is a valid one as well.

Perhaps a secret burial site in the US/Europe would be a good idea. At least that way even if the site is discovered (or assumed to be discovered) the people 'paying homage' could be monitored.

But I hope that the body is not disposed of till international journalists and officials have a chance to view it and confirm the death.

Chogy
02 May 11,, 15:16
I tend to agree with Z. The nature of Intel inside Pakistan is porous, to say the least.

If the ISI or Pakistani military was in on it very early, the chances that the op would be leaked to bin Laden were almost 100%

If I were to guess, and it IS just a guess, Pakistan was informed in one manner or another moments before the operation kicked off, so there was not enough time to warn him. And that brings up an interesting question. Helicopter time-of-flight from Afghanistan is not short. Was Pakistan informed BEFORE the helicopters entered their airspace? That leaves too much time to leak "The Americans are coming; get out." The only conclusion is that the helicopters penetrated Pakistani airspace and were either not detected, or were unable to be engaged by Pakistani AD forces.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 15:18
Yes, I mean look at all the groups that stage out of Pakistan and launch attacks inside Pakistan and elsewhere. If you can't track taliban or find a man living in a million dollar compound down the street from your main military academy, you won't notice a SEAL Team. Unless of course your willing to admit the ISI knew where he and other militants were all along?

Small cells living amongst civilians and carrying out small scale terrorist attacks using homemade bombs is one thing - flying an assault force in half a dozen choppers across Pakistan towards the Capital and military academy and carrying out an operation for 40 minutes (expecting heavy resistance and gunfire) and simply expecting no response from Pakistani security forces throughout the duration of the operation is simply absurd.

Why would Pakistanis security officials suspect a house built a few KM from the Pakistan Military Academy?


We both know if the US had spilled the beans before OBL was already dead the compund would have been empty.
No we do not know that - only conspiracy theorists such as you 'know that'.

If that was the case, Pakistan would not have caught Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or the numerous other Al Qaeda operatives.

Double Edge
02 May 11,, 15:19
Dunno if you guys have seen this pic but Al-Jazeera is putting it out. Got picked up by a local channel here too, x-news just ran the al-jazzera stream.

We think that Bin laden 'death photo' is fake (http://photoblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/05/02/6568249-we-think-that-bin-laden-death-photo-is-a-fake?ocid=twitter)

Chogy
02 May 11,, 15:23
Yes, the photo shown in this thread is apparently an old fake. Someone, somewhere, posted it in response to the news, and the pic has gone viral.

AFAIK there have been no official photo release yet. I hope they do.

Double Edge
02 May 11,, 15:25
Will not be satisfied unless there is a valid death certificate (in long form) -- signed Trump

:biggrin:

Chogy
02 May 11,, 15:25
Sorry for the back-to-back posts. Here is the evidence that the photo is faked:

http://i51.tinypic.com/kd7fv6.jpg

n21
02 May 11,, 15:27
The choppers either penetrated the airspace or simply diverted from a Pakistani airbase.

You tell the Pakistani, "good dinner and all,on our way to Afghanistan". Then you "loose your way" and land on top of OBL's head. Do that "emergency landing thingi" for 40 minutes and then give all okay, on our way back to Baghram.

notorious_eagle
02 May 11,, 15:28
Yes, I mean look at all the groups that stage out of Pakistan and launch attacks inside Pakistan and elsewhere. If you can't track taliban or find a man living in a million dollar compound down the street from your main military academy, you won't notice a SEAL Team. Unless of course your willing to admit the ISI knew where he and other militants were all along?

He lived in a compound, the neighbours whom lived there were in absolute shock when they found out OBL was living there. Its quite easy to keep a low profile in Pakistan, stop thinking from an American point of view.


Well I don't doubt the ISI knew where the Americans wanted to go, who they wanted to get when they got there, and where "where" actually was. Everyone knew the US was hunting him.

If anything the SEAL grabbed up some Pakistani military attache threw him in the helo, breifed him on the flight over and after relieving him of the ability to let anyone know where he was or what he now knew.

We both know if the US had spilled the beans before OBL was already dead the compund would have been empty.

So nothing but speculation on your part, i respect your opinion Sir but i would rather take the word of a man who gets info like this first hand from the people on ground. Some people are saying that helicopters took off from Tarbela, so Pakistan knew about this operation all along. Pretty much all the top Al Qaeda leaders that have been caught have been with ISI's help. Anyways, there is no point in squabbling over these small things whether it was Pakistan or US. Bottom Line is, he's dead and its a great day for both Pakistan and US.

notorious_eagle
02 May 11,, 15:31
Small cells living amongst civilians and carrying out small scale terrorist attacks using homemade bombs is one thing - flying an assault force in half a dozen choppers across Pakistan towards the Capital and military academy and carrying out an operation for 40 minutes (expecting heavy resistance and gunfire) and simply expecting no response from Pakistani security forces throughout the duration of the operation is simply absurd.

Why would Pakistanis security officials suspect a house built a few KM from the Pakistan Military Academy?

No we do not know that - only conspiracy theorists such as you 'know that'.

If that was the case, Pakistan would not have caught Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or the numerous other Al Qaeda operatives.

And that too from Pakistani troops from elite Kakul Academy, these Hollywood fantasies are making me giggle :P

IHM
02 May 11,, 15:32
Hazrat Osama Bin Laden will be lying in lap of 73 "lovely virgins" in heaven as he was shedding the human blood just to enjoy those lovely "virgins" of heaven. *sarcastic* LOL

IND76
02 May 11,, 15:34
Well done and congratulations to all Americans and its allies who fought in afghanistan. Now its very clear that Osama has been harboured by powers that be in Pakistan for a long time , causing several deaths and deserve to be declared state sponsorer of terrorism by UN.

IHM
02 May 11,, 15:35
Should now the Pakistani nation stand up and cry for the American forces to liberate themselves from these state-sponsored monsters terrorists? I also love drones but this kind of operations, I suppose, are more effective. Some people from Pakistan says: "God Bless America".

ambidex
02 May 11,, 15:44
A voice from Pakistan (Op-Ed)

Gotcha!
(http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/02/gotcha.html)

by Nadeem F. Paracha on May 2nd, 2011

The news the world had been waiting for ever since the United States declared war against Al-Qaeda in 2001 has finally arrived: Al Qaeda’s numero uno, the most wanted man in the world, Osama bin Laden has finally been killed.

According to reports coming in at the time of writing this piece, the wealthy Saudi turned Islamist terrorist died in an attack on his hideout just outside the quiet Pakistani city of Abbotabad.

The unprecedented operation was carried out by a team of US marines that had been monitoring Laden’s movements in the area for the last many weeks.

A lot more detail report is expected to come in, especially after US President, Barak Obama, went live on television to give the news to his people and the world at large.

As CNN and BBC were showing thousands of Americans gathering outside the White House, cheering the news, the sounds and sights coming from Pakistani channels are at best bizarre.

As news anchors shoot away reading the fast unfolding news, they seem unsure whether to describe Osama’s reported death as ‘wo marey ja chukey hein’ or ‘mara ja chukka hai’, – both mean ‘Osama has been killed’, but the first sentence uses words like ‘chukey hein’ that in Urdu and Hindi is used to give respect to someone older. (Even Musharf is using same words, in his respect)
So, as Pakistani newscasters (especially on the ever-animated hyperbolic private channels), continue to zigzag between ‘chuka’ and ‘chukey,’ it was only a matter of time before we began seeing what is called the ghairat brigade, or the pride brigade take their seats in front of the camera.

Pakistan’s private TV channels are brimming with the most gung-ho characters of this brigade – talk show hosts with an addiction for anything conspiratorial and rhetorical, and never far from using sheer jingoism to give weight to the shenanigans of the Pakistani right-wing, especially regarding the rightists’ blinding hatred for the US, the West, India and Pakistani politicians.

So until the writing of this piece, and merely an hour after the news about Osama’s death poured in, the usual suspects in this respect are up and running questioning the validity of the report.

The two star anchors of big media houses started behaving as if their jobs are now on the line since Osama is dead and America seems to have won at least this aspect of its war against al Qaeda. Then one after the other they started breaking with a photo which was published on the internet sometime in 2009.

The cynical display is quite pathetic, almost akin to the shock the loud mouthpieces of the agitated right-wing exhibited when Raymond Davis made a smooth exit from Pakistan, on the behest of Pakistan’s security agencies that, ironically, were alleged to have been propping up a number of media men and politicians such as Imran Khan to pump up anti-Americanism in Pakistan.

Respected journalists and analysts like Najam Sethi, Ayesha Siddiuqa, Hasan Askari and Farrukh Saleem are right to suggest that large sections of the country’s intelligence agencies are using certain media personnel and politicians to drown America’s concerns about Pakistan protecting certain al Qaeda members and those belonging to
militant Islamist outfits that America says the Pakistani establishment considers to be ‘friendly.’

Nevertheless, whereas the largely knee-jerk and quasi-reactionary narrative peddled in the name of ghairat in the media and from the mouths of some politicians and TV anchors is now sounding as empty as empty can be, the government and the military-establishment will have to think on its feet.

With Osama’s dramatic demise, the Pakistani establishment cannot hide anymore behind the padding its clumsy doings in the war against terrorists was being provided to them by sympathetic media men.

They have to answer one very simple question: In spite of the Americans claiming that Osama was hiding somewhere in Pakistan, why did the Pakistani military, who too has lost numerous soldiers in its war against al Qaeda and the Taliban, continued to deny it?

What’s more, in a frenzy to impress their masters in certain sections of Pakistan’s security apparatus, these media men and politicians were not even immune to unleash rhetoric that can leave Pakistan and its people not only isolated, but suffering from collective bouts of paranoia, delusion and xenophobia.

Whereas now it is becoming more than clear that Pakistani security agencies and the Pakistani government did have an inkling at least as to what the Americans were planning to do, instead of asking the question ‘what Osama was doing hiding in a compound situated in an area where there is sufficient presence of the Pakistan army and ISI,’ these TV men were quick to suggest that the man killed may not be Osama.

In fact, one of them confidently announced that according his sources (that’s a nice way of putting it), the man killed was not Osama. But lo and behold! Only an hour after curious claim came the report that the Americans have released the pictures of the dead body and face of Osama.

As I go on monitoring the media, the atrocious narrative questioning the validity of the news championed by these talk show hosts-turned-anchors-turned-presenters had fallen on its face and gradually replaced by a line that suggests that the Pakistan military (not the government) should also be given credit for this prize catch. That is when the race to publish the image started.

Perhaps the Pakistani security forces and institutions did play a role, but, again, with the emergence of the corpse of Osama in Pakistan, we should be asking, does this episode not validate almost all the other allegations and concerns that the US has exhibited regarding Pakistan’s rather shadowy and topsy-turvy war against terrorists?

We have to prove to the world that Pakistan is not a country that accommodates and hides mass murderers. But then, what to expect from a country some of whose politicians and media raise more hue and cry about US drone attacks (that have killed around 2,000 people, most of them militants), rather than about suicide attacks by Taliban/al-Qaeda that, ever since 2004, have slaughtered over 34,000 civilians, policemen and army personnel.

Nadeem F. Paracha is a cultural critic and senior columnist for Dawn Newspaper and Dawn.com.

IHM
02 May 11,, 15:45
I love Nadeem F. Paracha-- a great Pakistani intellectual. He spots on! I second him in entirety!

Red Seven
02 May 11,, 15:46
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a53/Alryan/150px-DEVGRUFINALLOGOsml_copy.jpg


Get some, ST6

Officer of Engineers
02 May 11,, 15:47
And that too from Pakistani troops from elite Kakul Academy, these Hollywood fantasies are making me giggle :PIf they're anything professionals, then, no, I do not expect them to respond in time. I am not saying that the Pakistanis were not involved but a surprised attack is the worst thing you can spring on SOF. For all intents and purposes, they are light infantry and the only chance light infantry has against any prepared force is intelligence and if the Pakistanis are lacking in such, then no, they would not have jumped in blind. They would need time to develop the intel while gathering their force. For all the Pakistanis knew, they would have been marching into a B-52 raid.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 15:48
Should now the Pakistani nation stand up and cry for the American forces to liberate themselves from these state-sponsored monsters terrorists?
No, since Pakistani forces are doing a good enough job with the resources they have, and more than likely facilitated this operation as well.

IHM
02 May 11,, 15:49
On lighter note, I am looking for my bosom American friend Mr Steve to have a great party with him tonight. Wherever you are my friend, buzz me! Its been ages I was out of touch with the forum but this great news attracted me to the forum back to share the sentiments of ecstasy with my American friends. :)

This news made my day!

zraver
02 May 11,, 15:50
Small cells living amongst civilians and carrying out small scale terrorist attacks using homemade bombs is one thing - flying an assault force in half a dozen choppers across Pakistan towards the Capital and military academy and carrying out an operation for 40 minutes (expecting heavy resistance and gunfire) and simply expecting no response from Pakistani security forces throughout the duration of the operation is simply absurd.

So a bunch of poorly equipped jihadis can do it but 2-4 MH-60 Pavehawks flying on the deck and high speed in the dead of night carrying superbly trained commandoes and backed by an impressive US technical capability to take over the target areas communications can't?

Don't forget in 2003 we called Iraqi commanders at home and on their cells and told them to stand aside. We provided the technical means for the Stunext worm and likely used Suter to help the Israelis take out the Syrian reactor- but we can't jam/ collpase the local communications in Pakistan.

In part I guess because the Pakistani security forces are supermen who can respond faster than anyone else on the plant. The North Hollywood shootout in broad daylight took 24 minutes for SWAT to arrive. Do you get that- broad daylight no one had to wake up and get dressed, no one had to run through channels to see if it was an exercise or otherwise planned op and communications where absolutely clear...

None of that applies in Pakistan at 1:00 A.M.

There was probably only a couple of minutes of shooting and it was over before your security services even had time to figure out that fact that Pakistan had been caught with its pants down.


Why would Pakistanis security officials suspect a house built a few KM from the Pakistan Military Academy?

For the same reason the US did- no net or phone, burning trash, 12' walls with razor wire.....


No we do not know that - only conspiracy theorists such as you 'know that'.

If that was the case, Pakistan would not have caught Khalid Sheikh Mohammed or the numerous other Al Qaeda operatives.

Mumbai proved to the world that the ISI is in bed with militants. Nor did the government ever have any problem contacting the TTP (although getting them to obey was a problem). AQ was also linked to ops in Kashmir which is the ISI's pet, as was the A-stan Taliban.

InExile
02 May 11,, 15:53
Wouldn't unidentified choppers flying deep in Pakistani airspace, for an operation that lasted atleast an hour or longer; be spotted on radar, and at the very least challenged; or have fighters in the air to intercept?

Is there anything I am missing?

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 15:54
Senior ISI official confirms bin Laden killed

ABBOTTABAD: Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the Sept 11, 2001 attacks that killed almost 3,000 people and put the United States on a decade-long war footing, was killed late Sunday night in Abbottabad by a joint American and Pakistani team, senior security officials said on Monday.

“Yes, I can confirm that,” one senior intelligence official told Reuters, but declined to give further details.

Another security official in Peshawar confirmed it was a joint operation between CIA and Pakistani security forces.

“It was carried out on a very precise info that some high-value target is there,” he said.

A Pakistani military helicopter crashed near Abbottabad on Sunday night, killing one and wounding two, according to Pakistani media. It was unclear if the crash was related to bin Laden’s death, but witnesses reported gunshots and heavy firing before one of two low-flying helicopters crashed near the Pakistani Military Academy.

The police blocked the road leading to Pakistan’s military academy, a Reuters photographer on the scene reported.

“I have seen tail and two wings of the chopper,” a labourer told Reuters. The fact bin Laden was apparently living in relative luxury not far from Islamabad could pose awkward questions for Pakistan.

“For some time there will be a lot of tension between Washington and Islamabad because Bin Laden seems to have been living here close to Islamabad,” said Imtiaz Gul, a security analyst.

“If the ISI had known then somebody within the ISI must have leaked this information. Pakistan will have to do a lot of damage control because the Americans have been reporting he is in Pakistan. This is a serious blow to the credibility of Pakistan.”

But defence analyst and former general Talat Masood said the fact bin Laden was killed in a joint operation would limit the damage to Pakistan’s image. “There should be a sigh of relief because this will take some pressure off of Pakistan,” said defence analyst and former general Talat Masood. “Pakistan most probably has contributed to this, and Pakistan can take some credit for this – being such an iconic figure, it’s a great achievement.”

www.dawn.com - Security Verification (http://www.dawn.com/2011/05/02/senior-isi-official-confirms-bin-laden-killed.html)

Officer of Engineers
02 May 11,, 15:59
For the same reason the US did- no net or phone, burning trash, 12' walls with razor wire.....For that part of the world? Not out of character. Omar put cows in his living room.

rj1
02 May 11,, 15:59
He lived in a compound, the neighbours whom lived there were in absolute shock when they found out OBL was living there. Its quite easy to keep a low profile in Pakistan, stop thinking from an American point of view.

I don't care what culture anyone lives in or is from, everyone gossips. These neighbors never asked themselves: "who lives in that big building with barbed wire at the top of the walls?"

pmuklherjee
02 May 11,, 16:07
Well done America. Wish the US could have nabbed the guy years ago, but then, he obviously had help. So, well done again.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 16:08
So a bunch of poorly equipped jihadis can do it but 2-4 MH-60 Pavehawks flying on the deck and high speed in the dead of night carrying superbly trained commandoes and backed by an impressive US technical capability to take over the target areas communications can't?
A bunch of 'poorly equipped Jihadis' also do the same time and again in territory under the control of US security forces in Afghanistan, and did so for the longest time in Iraq as well.

A 'bunch of poorly equipped jihadis' are not flying around in half a dozen choppers across most of Pakistan to launch a raid. Had this raid not been an 'airborne raid', the claim that Pakistan had no idea about it would have held some credibility.

'Superbly trained commandos' are not the sole domain of the US, nor are they some sort of 'supermen' themselves. And 'impressive US technical capability to take over the target areas communication' to facilitate a raiding party flying across the entire country is yet more fanciful 'Rambo nonsense'.


Don't forget in 2003 we called Iraqi commanders at home and on their cells and told them to stand aside. We provided the technical means for the Stunext worm and likely used Suter to help the Israelis take out the Syrian reactor- but we can't jam/ collpase the local communications in Pakistan.
First - no reports of 'collapsed communications' from Pakistan. People were twittering, posting and commenting the entire time. The administrator of one Pakistani forum that is still online was posting updates yesterday about access being restricted to the area after the chopper crash and while gunfire was being heard. Sorry, but the facts simply don't support your Star Wars tale.


In part I guess because the Pakistani security forces are supermen who can respond faster than anyone else on the plant.
US forces are not 'supermen' either, nor is there any evidence to suggest anything along the lines of a 'communications blackout to facilitate insertion and assault' that you appear to be suggesting took place.


There was probably only a couple of minutes of shooting and it was over before your security services even had time to figure out that fact that Pakistan had been caught with its pants down.
The helicopter crash (unknown cause at the time) and news reports indicating gun fire and restricted access to the area, were being broadcast yesterday, and posted on Pakistani forums.

Don't be so gullible.


For the same reason the US did- no net or phone, burning trash, 12' walls with razor wire.....
You need to live in Pakistan some more then ....


Mumbai proved to the world that the ISI is in bed with militants. Nor did the government ever have any problem contacting the TTP (although getting them to obey was a problem). AQ was also linked to ops in Kashmir which is the ISI's pet, as was the A-stan Taliban.
Mumbai proved nothing about the ISI's links to militants since absolutely no evidence about the ISI's connection or knowledge to the attacks has been provided so far.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 16:11
For that part of the world? Not out of character. Omar put cows in his living room.

Exactly - my parents house in Lahore has 10ft boundary walls topped with glass shards.

High crime rates and extremely poor law enforcement means a lot of people (especially wealthy ones) take all sorts of precautions to protect themselves.

Drive through any wealthy neighborhood and you'll see plenty of 'suspiciously high security' residences.

troung
02 May 11,, 16:13
For that part of the world? Not out of character. Omar put cows in his living room.

They were living in a nice area on a million plus dollar property. PA officers lived in the area. Can't see PA high ups slumming it up.

Kasmir
02 May 11,, 16:13
Yes, indeed Zraver. That makes the most sense. US would have used "zero day" signals technology for this op if necessary, although I doubt it was. The US is regularly overflying Pakistan; what could be easier cover for an insertion like this?

And to the Pak folks posting here: if the US had indeed pulled off killing OBL right in his sanctuary near a Pak military academy, how would the public reaction of the Pak military be any different? Even within the military, that would be the official story.

Taking credit for the operation is the only way for the Pak military to avoid humiliation. It's highly interesting that the US is barely being polite about this. One would have actually expected Obama to over-credit Pak cooperation as you would think it's in the US interest to avoid embarrassing the Pakistan military. Instead he publicly denied the participated. Extremely unusual lack of diplomacy. Me thinks there is US anger involved.

I hope the next step is to clear out that rat's nest in Quetta.

troung
02 May 11,, 16:18
The secret team that killed bin Laden
By National Journal national Journal 18 mins ago

By Marc Ambinder
National Journal

From Ghazi Air Base in Pakistan, the modified MH-60 helicopters made their way to the garrison suburb of Abbottabad, about 30 miles from the center of Islamabad. Aboard were Navy SEALs, flown across the border from Afghanistan, along with tactical signals, intelligence collectors, and navigators using highly classified hyperspectral imagers.

After bursts of fire over 40 minutes, 22 people were killed or captured. One of the dead was Osama bin Laden, done in by a double tap -- boom, boom -- to the left side of his face. His body was aboard the choppers that made the trip back. One had experienced mechanical failure and was destroyed by U.S. forces, military and White House officials tell National Journal.

Were it not for this high-value target, it might have been a routine mission for the specially trained and highly mythologized SEAL Team Six, officially called the Naval Special Warfare Development Group, but known even to the locals at their home base Dam Neck in Virginia as just DevGru.

This HVT was special, and the raids required practice, so they replicated the one-acre compound at Camp Alpha, a segregated section of Bagram Air Base. Trial runs were held in early April.

DevGru belongs to the Joint Special Operations Command, an extraordinary and unusual collection of classified standing task forces and special-missions units. They report to the president and operate worldwide based on the legal (or extra-legal) premises of classified presidential directives. Though thegeneral public knows about the special SEALs and their brothers in Delta Force, most JSOC missions never leak. We only hear about JSOC when something goes bad (a British aid worker is accidentally killed) or when something really big happens (a merchant marine captain is rescued at sea), and even then, the military remains especially sensitive about their existence. Several dozen JSOC operatives have died in Pakistan over the past several years. Their names are released by the Defense Department in the usual manner, but with a cover story -- generally, they were killed in training accidents in eastern Afghanistan. That's the code.

(Analysis: Bin Laden's death a triumph for Obama)

How did the helos elude the Pakistani air defense network? Did they spoof transponder codes? Were they painted and tricked out with Pakistan Air Force equipment? If so -- and we may never know -- two other JSOC units, the Technical Application Programs Office and the Aviation Technology Evaluation Group, were responsible. These truly are the silent squirrels -- never getting public credit and not caring one whit. Since 9/11, the JSOC units and their task forces have become the U.S. government's most effective and lethal weapon against terrorists and their networks, drawing plenty of unwanted, and occasionally unflattering, attention to themselves in the process.

JSOC costs the country more than $1 billion annually. The command has its critics, but it has escaped significant congressional scrutiny and has operated largely with impunity since 9/11. Some of its interrogators and operators were involved in torture and rendition, and the line between its intelligence-gathering activities and the CIA's has been blurred.

But Sunday's operation provides strong evidence that the CIA and JSOC work well together. Sometimes intelligence needs to be developed rapidly, to get inside the enemy's operational loop. And sometimes it needs to be cultivated, grown as if it were delicate bacteria in a petri dish.

In an interview at CIA headquarters two weeks ago, a senior intelligence official said the two proud groups of American secret warriors had been "deconflicted and basically integrated" -- finally -- 10 years after 9/11. Indeed, according to accounts given to journalists by five senior administration officials Sunday night, the CIA gathered the intelligence that led to bin Laden's location. A memo from CIA Director Leon Panetta sent Sunday night provides some hints of how the information was collected and analyzed. In it, he thanked the National Security Agency and the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency for their help. NSA figured out, somehow, that there was no telephone or Internet service in the compound. How it did this without Pakistan's knowledge is a secret. The NGIA makes the military's maps but also develops their pattern recognition software -- no doubt used to help establish, by February of this year, that the CIA could say with "high probability" that bin Laden and his family were living there.

(Step-by-step: How the U.S. killed bin Laden)

Recently, JSOC built a new Targeting and Analysis Center in Rosslyn, Va. Where the NationalCounterterrorism Center tends to focus on threats to the homeland, TAAC, whose existence was first disclosed by the Associated Press, focuses outward, on active "kinetic" -- or lethal -- counterterrorismmissions abroad. Its creation surprised the NCTC's director, Michael Leiter, who was suspicious about its intent until he visited.

That the center could be stood up under the nose of some of the nation's most senior intelligence officials without their full knowledge testifies to the power and reach of JSOC, whose size has tripled since 9/11. The command now includes more than 4,000 soldiers and civilians. It has its own intelligence division, which may or may not have been involved in last night's effort, and has gobbled up a number of free-floating Defense Department entities that allowed it to rapidly acquire, test, and field new technologies.

Under a variety of standing orders, JSOC is involved in more than 50 current operations spanning a dozen countries, and its units, supported by so-called "white," or acknowledged, special operations entities like Rangers, Special Forces battalions, SEAL teams, and Air Force special ops units from the larger Special Operations Command, are responsible for most of the "kinetic" action in Afghanistan.

Pentagon officials are conscious of the enormous stress that 10 years of war have placed on the command. JSOC resources are heavily taxed by the operational tempo in Afghanistan and Pakistan, officials have said. The current commander, Vice Adm. William McRaven, and Maj. Gen. Joseph Votel,McRaven's nominated replacement, have been pushing to add people and intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance technology to areas outside the war theater where al-Qaida and its affiliates continue to thrive.

(What does it mean for al-Qaida?)

Earlier this year, it seemed that the elite units would face the same budget pressures that the entire military was experiencing. Not anymore. The military found a way, largely by reducing contracting staff and borrowing others from the Special Operations Command, to add 50 positions to JSOC. AndVotel wants to add several squadrons to the "Tier One" units -- Delta and the SEALs.

When Gen. Stanley McChrystal became JSOC's commanding general in 2004, he and his intelligence chief, Maj. Gen. Michael Flynn, set about transforming the way the subordinate units analyze and act on intelligence. Insurgents in Iraq were exploiting the slow decision loop that coalition commanders used, and enhanced interrogation techniques were frowned upon after the Abu Ghraib scandal. But the hunger for actionable tactical intelligence on insurgents was palpable.

The way JSOC solved this problem remains a carefully guarded secret, but people familiar with the unit suggest that McChrystal and Flynn introduced hardened commandos to basic criminal forensic techniques and then used highly advanced and still-classified technology to transform bits of information into actionable intelligence. One way they did this was to create forward-deployed fusion cells, where JSOC units were paired with intelligence analysts from the NSA and the NGA. Such analysis helped the CIA to establish, with a high degree of probability, that Osama bin Laden and his family were hiding in that particular compound.

These technicians could "exploit and analyze" data obtained from the battlefield instantly, using their access to the government's various biometric, facial-recognition, and voice-print databases. These cells also used highly advanced surveillance technology and computer-based pattern analysis to layer predictive models of insurgent behavior onto real-time observations.

The military has begun to incorporate these techniques across the services. And Flynn will soon be promoted to a job within the Office of the Director of National Intelligence, where he'll be tasked with transforming the way intelligence is gathered, analyzed, and utilized.

Visit National Journal for more political news.
Copyright © 2011 Yahoo! Inc. All rights rese

USSWisconsin
02 May 11,, 16:19
The 72 virgins will be large men who will make his rear end their playground.

That and those new holes in his head...

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 16:25
And to the Pak folks posting here: if the US had indeed pulled off killing OBL right in his sanctuary near a Pak military academy, how would the public reaction of the Pak military be any different? Even within the military, that would be the official story.


Given regional tensions, it would be extremely foolish to launch launch a cross country assault (from outside the country) close to a military academy and the nations Capital, without the knowledge and cooperation of Pakistan, and 'hope' that no one would notice, regardless of whatever 'technology' Americans claim they have.

1980s
02 May 11,, 16:25
JANA, otherwise known as Farzana Shah a half-wit journalist for the Asian Tribune is reporting OBL was killed a week ago and the body handed over to U.S. authorities. It's also being suggested the crashed chopper (destroyed) was Pakistani.

Little wonder that Pakistan is so corrupt and dysfunctional as the "report" given by that pseudo-journalist you mentioned typifies the Pakistani political character so well; one of complete and utter stupidity.

I remember when Abdolmalek Rigi, Iran's most wanted terrorist (who, like Bin Laden, was based in Pakistan) was apprehended on a plane from Dubai en-route to Central Asia last year. The reaction of the Pakistanis was exactly the same as i am seeing from them today in regards to Bin Laden's killing; a confused reaction of embarrassment, denial and then claims of "co-operation" and "knowledge" during the operation. What a farce! As zraver aptly put it, Pakistan has "been caught with its pants down". Just look at them all over Al-Jazeera, BBC et al now scrambling to save face! How quickly their narratives have changed within less than a day to one of denial, confusion and now to 'co-operation' - nobody's buying the latter.

Anyway, it is not surprising to me at all that Bin Laden was found living in a big mansion just a short distance away from a f'n Pakistani military academy. Pakistan is going to have some very, very tough questions to answer.

Any bets on whether Omar's mansion in Quetta is bigger than Bin Laden's was? :biggrin:

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 16:32
I remember when Abdolmalek Rigi, Iran's most wanted terrorist (who, like Bin Laden, was based in Pakistan) was apprehended on a plane from Dubai en-route to Central Asia last year.
Why would the capture of Rigi on a flight from Dubai to Central Asia be embarrassing to Pakistan?

If anything, it proved that he was not in Pakistan.

USSWisconsin
02 May 11,, 16:36
My guess - OTM 0.50 - making nice big holes, around 20$ worth of ammo for OBL. I'm glad they shot him rather than bombed him - it is more satifying.

Kasmir
02 May 11,, 16:39
Given regional tensions, it would be extremely foolish to launch launch a cross country assault (from outside the country) close to a military academy and the nations Capital, without the knowledge and cooperation of Pakistan, and 'hope' that no one would notice, regardless of whatever 'technology' Americans claim they have.

I notice you didn't answer my question: what else could the Pak military say after the op was pulled off?

The US obviously intended for everyone in the world to notice -- once the mission objective was achieved.

Your faith in Pak technology vs US technology is rather incredible.

pmuklherjee
02 May 11,, 16:40
What are these guys talking of? As I was driving around today, I heard news flash quoting Pak media saying that the Pak Army denied any involvement in the OBL killing episode. What was that? Are they claiming involvement now? Involvement at some level is to be expected, Obama said as much. The US could not possible pull off an operation of this kind in the heartland of another country without some form of tacit understanding with the top most administration of that country. Whether that means Mr Zardari or Gen Kayani or Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha or all of them, does not matter. Pakistan had to be on board. That is what I imply.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 16:45
I notice you didn't answer my question: what else could the Pak military say after the op was pulled off?
AFAIK, the Pak Military has not said anything officially so far ...

The GoP has credited the US for the operation.


Your faith in Pak technology vs US technology is rather incredible.
Your faith in US technology is what is rather 'incredible'.

Then again, 'Rambo types' tend to believe in this kind of stuff and plans for 'Special Forces securing the nukes and spiriting them out of Pakistan'.

zraver
02 May 11,, 16:46
Thanks Troung, as I suspected MH-60's with a lot of technical support. Once they were in the air Pakistan lost them.

AM,


First - no reports of 'collapsed communications' from Pakistan. People were twittering, posting and commenting the entire time. The administrator of one Pakistani forum that is still online was posting updates yesterday about access being restricted to the area after the chopper crash and while gunfire was being heard. Sorry, but the facts simply don't support your Star Wars tale.

I doubt the Pakistani security forces are going to come forward. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.

1980s
02 May 11,, 16:48
Why would the capture of Rigi on a flight from Dubai to Central Asia be embarrassing to Pakistan?

If anything, it proved that he was not in Pakistan.

Because he confessed to having been based in Pakistan, as had his brother Abdolhamed Rigi. This ran contrary to the usual Pakistani narrative of 'denial' and 'not knowing' where Rigi (include Omar and Bin Laden et al in that) was. Once these revelations came out in the Iranian media, the Pakistani media changed their tune from one of denial that Jondallah had anything to do with Pakistan to one of how Rigi's capture was done in "co-operation" with Pakistan - something Iran has rejected in public, and laughed-off in private. Much like the American's are doing over Bin Laden's assassination and Pakistan's flip-flop narrative of denial to attempting to taking credit for it.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 16:53
AM,

I doubt the Pakistani security forces are going to come forward. Lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.
You can check the time stamps on the media reports and posts - no communications went down and there was public knowledge (and real time commentary abut the events) of 'events' involving choppers, gunfire and restricted access to the area, yesterday.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 16:57
Because he confessed to having been based in Pakistan, as had his brother Abdolhamed Rigi.
What does his having been based in Pakistan have to do with Pakistani complicity? There are plenty of Baluch terrorists attacking Pakistani security forces in Pakistan based in Pakistan as well.


This ran contrary to the usual Pakistani narrative of 'denial' and 'not knowing' where Rigi (include Omar and Bin Laden et al in that) was.
Rigi claiming he was based in Pakistan does not prove Pakistan knew where he was.


Once these revelations came out in the Iranian media, the Pakistani media changed their tune from one of denial that Jondallah had anything to do with Pakistan to one of how Rigi's capture was done in "co-operation" with Pakistan - something Iran has rejected in public, and laughed-off in private. Much like the American's are doing over Bin Laden's assassination and Pakistan's flip-flop narrative of denial to attempting to taking credit for it.

The following is also what Iran claimed, we should believe that too then I suppose:

On Feb. 25, Iranian state television broadcast footage of a supposed confession made by Rigi, saying he was flying to Central Asia to meet with American handlers at the U.S.-run Manas air base in Kyrgyzstan. Intelligence Minister Moslehi had already pointed his finger at Washington and the hand of the CIA, claiming to have evidence that Rigi was earlier housed at a U.S. base in Afghanistan and set up with fake documentation by the Americans.

Read more: Iran's Arrest of Extremist Rigi: Did Pakistan Help? - TIME (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1968126,00.html#ixzz1LD9gjMZm)

Officer of Engineers
02 May 11,, 16:58
Yes, indeed Zraver. That makes the most sense. US would have used "zero day" signals technology for this op if necessary, although I doubt it was. The US is regularly overflying Pakistan; what could be easier cover for an insertion like this?In Pakistan's defence, they were not exactly looking for sigs in that neighbourhood. Their limited assets are pointed to the big elephant to the East and what's left is watching for US airpower flying in Afghanistan to stay in Afghanistan.

IND76
02 May 11,, 17:21
I just saw a news programme on Al-Zazeera TV, in which the Arab reporters interviewed a few residents of Abbotabad, who lived in the neighborhood of the Compound where Osama lived from 2005. They said this house is strange, as it is almost 8 times larger than the houses in this area and it had about 18 feet high compound walls. The residents said the house always appeared mysterious, especially that it was located at a stone's throw away from Pakistani Military Academy and military establishment. The residents said that the town and the area is a highly Restricted Area, and EVERYBODY who wants to move in the area is subjected to a detailed security scrutinees, like checking IDs and references. Under these circutances, it was impossible for Bin Laden, his large family and armed security guards to be able to live there from 2005, without the protection of the ISI and Pak Army. The house was worth more than 1 million dollars and to survive in such a large and specially built house (large family and huge/constant medical expenses for ailing Osama) without any source of income was impossible, unless Bin Laden was being taken care of by the ISI, was not possible. Therefore, the conclusion is Osama was living in a ISI safe house.

Dreadnought
02 May 11,, 17:33
A bunch of 'poorly equipped Jihadis' also do the same time and again in territory under the control of US security forces in Afghanistan, and did so for the longest time in Iraq as well.

A 'bunch of poorly equipped jihadis' are not flying around in half a dozen choppers across most of Pakistan to launch a raid. Had this raid not been an 'airborne raid', the claim that Pakistan had no idea about it would have held some credibility.

'Superbly trained commandos' are not the sole domain of the US, nor are they some sort of 'supermen' themselves. And 'impressive US technical capability to take over the target areas communication' to facilitate a raiding party flying across the entire country is yet more fanciful 'Rambo nonsense'.

First - no reports of 'collapsed communications' from Pakistan. People were twittering, posting and commenting the entire time. The administrator of one Pakistani forum that is still online was posting updates yesterday about access being restricted to the area after the chopper crash and while gunfire was being heard. Sorry, but the facts simply don't support your Star Wars tale.


US forces are not 'supermen' either, nor is there any evidence to suggest anything along the lines of a 'communications blackout to facilitate insertion and assault' that you appear to be suggesting took place.


The helicopter crash (unknown cause at the time) and news reports indicating gun fire and restricted access to the area, were being broadcast yesterday, and posted on Pakistani forums.

Don't be so gullible.


You need to live in Pakistan some more then ....

Mumbai proved nothing about the ISI's links to militants since absolutely no evidence about the ISI's connection or knowledge to the attacks has been provided so far.

Let it be known it was not Commando's. It was the USN Seal Team 6 according to reports that performed the operation. And YES they are one of the best in the world bar none. Which means they came into Pakistan under their noses and under their radars. They didnt fly across the country either, but thats not for mention. And IMO, There is no doubt Pakistani forces knew he (OBL) was there for some time. This is why their "trust" is very questionable. Perhaps they fear the very same brand of people they themselves cannot control. The ISI are not stupid which begs the question how long have they known.

Fabled SEAL Team 6 ends hunt for bin Laden (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/05/02/national/w092239D70.DTL)

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 17:37
Let it be known it was not Commando's. It was the USN Seal Team 6 according to reports that performed the operation. Which means they came into Pakistan under their noses. They didnt fly across the country either.

Fabled SEAL Team 6 ends hunt for bin Laden (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2011/05/02/national/w092239D70.DTL)

Commandos or special forces, semantics.

If they did not fly across Pakistan from Afghanistan, then where did they fly from?

Since there are clear images of a crashed chopper, and eyewitness reports of up to 6 choppers, this was obviously an airborne mission.

Red Seven
02 May 11,, 17:37
If the ISI or Pakistani military was in on it very early, the chances that the op would be leaked to bin Laden were almost 100%


I agree. The essential element of our relationship with Pakistan since early 2002 has been and continues to be distrust. There would be no sensible reason to trust more than a few key Pakistani officials with intelligence of this magnitude until the very last moment. There perhaps had been some cooperation at some level. But any Pakistani claim for credit that comes forth now is merely an effort to save face. It's insanity to think that UBL could have evaded us for so long and in such a manner without considerable Pakistani duplicity. Many fingers point to the ISI and with good reason. They have a track record. They helped the Taliban, they helped AQ and they are helping Lashkar-e-Taiba.

FJV
02 May 11,, 17:43
:Dancing-Banana:

Nicely done.

Dreadnought
02 May 11,, 17:46
Commandos or special forces, semantics.

If they did not fly across Pakistan from Afghanistan, then where did they fly from?

Since there are clear images of a crashed chopper, and eyewitness reports of up to 6 choppers, this was obviously an airborne mission.

You do realize the US has had bases in Pakistan for sometime right? Most didnt even know they were flying drones from Pakistan territory for a pretty long time now. Thats not the only base the US has used in Pakistan. And probably one of the reasons that many dont know is because many are not trusted with that information fearing it being leaked as it has shown to be many times before..

Seals are a world different then Commando's. They come from either the Air or the Sea (in most cases Sea launched and in some Air launched as in dealing with Pirates as we have seen). Their modis operadi dictates as less ground travel or air travel as possible (vulnerable in these cases). In and Out under darkness. Surgical, and out just as fast.

Wondering if Ma Deuce was used as a door knocker.:biggrin:

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 17:50
You do realize the US has had bases in Pakistan for sometime right? Most didnt even know they were flying drones from Pakistan territory for a pretty long time now. Thats not the only base the US has used in Pakistan.

The US does not have 'independent' bases in Pakistan - the bases it has used are existing Pakistani bases with Pakistani personnel. That makes the argument of 'lack of Pakistani knowledge about a raid' even less plausible.

Air traffic, including drones, is monitored by Pakistan.

The recent tensions over Raymond Davis and covert CIA operations in Pakistan would have only increased monitoring of US forces in Pakistan.

Bhaarat
02 May 11,, 17:52
Hundreds join first Pakistan rally to honour bin Laden
Hundreds join first Pakistan rally to honour bin Laden | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/hundreds-join-first-pakistan-rally-to-honour-bin-laden/story-e6frf7mf-1226048804915)

HUNDREDS took to the streets of Pakistan's city of Quetta to pay homage to Osama bin Laden, chanting death to America and setting fire to a US flag, witnesses and organisers said.

Angry participants belonging to a religious party in Quetta, the capital of southwestern province Baluchistan, were led by federal lawmaker Maulawi Asmatullah. They also torched a US flag before dispersing peacefully.
It was the first rally in Pakistan after the US announced that bin Laden had been killed in an overnight commando mission in Pakistan.
Organisers said between 1,000 and 1,200 people attended the rally, but witnesses put the figure closer to 800.
"Bin Laden was the hero of the Muslim world and after his martyrdom he has won the title of great mujahed (Muslim fighter)," Asmatullah said.
"His martyrdom will not end the movement. It will continue and thousands more bin Ladens will be born," he said.
The marchers also chanted slogans in favour of the Taliban and its supreme leader Mullah Omar who have been fighting across the border in Afghanistan since US-led troops invaded after the militia refused to give up bin Laden.
"Today's operation shows the US has no respect for international borders and they can violate international laws any time," he added.
Baluchistan, bordering Iran and Afghanistan is wracked by an insurgency waged by ethnic Baluch tribes seeking greater autonomy from the government and a greater share of profits from the region's wealth of oil and gas resources.
The region has also been hit by attacks blamed on Taliban militants.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,
Bhaarat

Red Seven
02 May 11,, 17:52
If they did not fly across Pakistan from Afghanistan, then where did they fly from?

Since there are clear images of a crashed chopper, and eyewitness reports of up to 6 choppers, this was obviously an airborne mission.


Not necessarily. All the personnel and equipment for the mission could have entered Pakistan in disguise in the weeks and months preceeding the raid. The helos could have been for a quick extraction only...and for support/security during the raid and during the extraction. ST6 and SFOD-D often infirltrate in this manner, disguised as civilians.

USSWisconsin
02 May 11,, 17:56
I have heard that OBL's corpse has been buried at sea - to preclude any pilgrimages to his grave or monuments being built at the site.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 17:56
Not necessarily. All the personnel and equipment for the mission could have entered Pakistan in disguise in the weeks and months preceeding the raid. The helos could have been for a quick extraction only...and for support/security during the raid and during the extraction. ST6 and SFOD-D often infirltrate in this manner, disguised as civilians.

My point is that the use of choppers, in any role, makes the argument of 'Pakistan did not know about the operation' highly implausible.

Dreadnought
02 May 11,, 17:58
The US does not have 'independent' bases in Pakistan - the bases it has used are existing Pakistani bases with Pakistani personnel. That makes the argument of 'lack of Pakistani knowledge about a raid' even less plausible.

Air traffic, including drones, is monitored by Pakistan.

The recent tensions over Raymond Davis and covert CIA operations in Pakistan would have only increased monitoring of US forces in Pakistan.

Have you forgotten the base the US used during the flood aid?

Red Seven
02 May 11,, 17:59
My point is that the use of choppers, in any role, makes the argument of 'Pakistan did not know about the operation' highly implausible.


Anything with regard to special operations of this nature is plausible.

Dreadnought
02 May 11,, 18:01
Hundreds join first Pakistan rally to honour bin Laden
Hundreds join first Pakistan rally to honour bin Laden | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/hundreds-join-first-pakistan-rally-to-honour-bin-laden/story-e6frf7mf-1226048804915)

HUNDREDS took to the streets of Pakistan's city of Quetta to pay homage to Osama bin Laden, chanting death to America and setting fire to a US flag, witnesses and organisers said.

Angry participants belonging to a religious party in Quetta, the capital of southwestern province Baluchistan, were led by federal lawmaker Maulawi Asmatullah. They also torched a US flag before dispersing peacefully.
It was the first rally in Pakistan after the US announced that bin Laden had been killed in an overnight commando mission in Pakistan.
Organisers said between 1,000 and 1,200 people attended the rally, but witnesses put the figure closer to 800.
"Bin Laden was the hero of the Muslim world and after his martyrdom he has won the title of great mujahed (Muslim fighter)," Asmatullah said.
"His martyrdom will not end the movement. It will continue and thousands more bin Ladens will be born," he said.
The marchers also chanted slogans in favour of the Taliban and its supreme leader Mullah Omar who have been fighting across the border in Afghanistan since US-led troops invaded after the militia refused to give up bin Laden.
"Today's operation shows the US has no respect for international borders and they can violate international laws any time," he added.
Baluchistan, bordering Iran and Afghanistan is wracked by an insurgency waged by ethnic Baluch tribes seeking greater autonomy from the government and a greater share of profits from the region's wealth of oil and gas resources.
The region has also been hit by attacks blamed on Taliban militants.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regards,
Bhaarat


IMO, There are some pretty pathetic people out there considering the fact that Bin Laden and his group has killed scores of Muslims outside of others. Guess he didnt think much of his own kind either and yet these idiots praise him. And on the other hand the US has done more for Pakistan then any other country has to date. Go figure. Either way the SOB is dead and in the deep six. F'em!:tongue:

notorious_eagle
02 May 11,, 18:02
Not necessarily. All the personnel and equipment for the mission could have entered Pakistan in disguise in the weeks and months preceeding the raid. The helos could have been for a quick extraction only...and for support/security during the raid and during the extraction. ST6 and SFOD-D often infirltrate in this manner, disguised as civilians.

Sir sorry to say but these speculations of 'could have' or 'would have' are not helping at all. Lets wait for the official events of how the raids took place, but this is verified that ISI's agents and SSG's commandos were present at the location during the time of the attack at that compound. Contrary to what a lot of people say on this forum, cooperation between Pakistan's Military and US Military can be described as "good". It is in Pakistan's interest to take out Bin Laden and this is exactly what the ISI did in cooperation with the Americans.

notorious_eagle
02 May 11,, 18:03
Have you forgotten the base the US used during the flood aid?

Yes and every US chopper had a SSG commando in it, all US choppers were monitored.

1980s
02 May 11,, 18:05
Anything with regard to special operations of this nature is plausible.

Im sure most people who use a forum like this one have heard about 'Operation Eagle Claw' over Iran in 1980. Weather conditions and lack of fuel thwarted that mission, yet the Americans still managed to fly several helicopters deep into Iran undetected.

Dreadnought
02 May 11,, 18:06
Yes and every US chopper had a SSG commando in it, all US choppers were monitored.

Umm, apparently four were not.

As FDR once said of the Doolittle Raid on Japan, they came from Shangi La!;):biggrin:

Red Seven
02 May 11,, 18:07
Sir sorry to say but these speculations of 'could have' or 'would have' are not helping at all. Lets wait for the official events of how the raids took place, but this is verified that ISI's agents and SSG's commandos were present at the location during the time of the attack at that compound. Contrary to what a lot of people say on this forum, cooperation between Pakistan's Military and US Military can be described as "good". It is in Pakistan's interest to take out Bin Laden and this is exactly what the ISI did in cooperation with the Americans.


Not trying to hammer you, NE, but "cooperation" is one thing, "trust" in highly sensitive intelligence matters is quite another. But you are right that speculation is merely that. I was trying to point out that there are hundreds of variations for ops of this nature and special operations planners at the level of DevGru pride themselves in creativity and deception.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 18:12
Im sure most people who use a forum like this one have heard about 'Operation Eagle Claw' over Iran in 1980.

That was also '1980's Iran' ...

zraver
02 May 11,, 18:17
but this is verified that ISI's agents and SSG's commandos were present at the location during the time of the attack at that compound.

Now isn't that embarassing for Pakistan-to be caught having dinner with America's number 1 most wanted. Becuase that is the only way they were present. It also says alot about thier skill- taken alive in Osama's compund without killing even a single American. Well it is the ISI after, about all they can do is kill civvies and mislead thier own population.

n21
02 May 11,, 18:23
Commandos or special forces, semantics.

If they did not fly across Pakistan from Afghanistan, then where did they fly from?

.

Since it is going to be a season of CT, The shortest distance to OBL's cave would have been from Indian side of Kashmir! specially as the region is full of mountains and valleys.

And I am sure the Indian government would be more than happy to allow passage of "American choppers on their way to Afghanistan"!

Hilal123
02 May 11,, 18:24
As has been everything else with else with AQ, this story is fishy. What really stands out the most is that WHY did they dump his body at sea?!? The United States paraded the dead body of Saddam Hussain and his sons with a lot of fanfare as was done witd the dead body Abu Musab Zaraqwi so WHY not bin laden?

The idea that

Of lately the relationship between the US and Pakistan had been heading south quite fast and the American military pulled out this rabbit from their hat to pressurise Pakistan.


Simply word of mouth cannot be trusted as the US military has made fake stories in the pas also ..ala rescue of Private Jessica Lynch

So this story about US marines descending on Abbotababd and killing bin laden needs to be verified with the picture of the dead body of bin laden other wise this story is just baloney.

Personally I think Bin Laden has been dead for very long time now and this drama is aimed at pressuring Pakistan. The US MUST at least release a picture of the dead body of Bin Laden; other wise doubts will persist as to what really happened.

Stitch
02 May 11,, 18:24
Thanks Troung, as I suspected MH-60's with a lot of technical support. Once they were in the air Pakistan lost them.

Sounds like first blood for the new MH-60M . . . . .

notorious_eagle
02 May 11,, 18:25
Now isn't that embarassing for Pakistan-to be caught having dinner with America's number 1 most wanted. Becuase that is the only way they were present. It also says alot about thier skill- taken alive in Osama's compund without killing even a single American. Well it is the ISI after, about all they can do is kill civvies and mislead thier own population.

My God, they were present at the location in cooperation with the Americans. Why are you speculating that OBL is in bed with the ISI, there is no proof to support your ridiculous claims just like your absurd claimed that the ISI is responsible for the attacks in Mumbai. The Americans wanted to conduct the operation on their own as its their war, ISI and SSG were present at the location to observe. This should be proof enough that Pakistan was aware of this operation long before, its all B.S that ISI would have tipped him off. ISI is an organization made of Pakistanis not some aliens, do you honestly think the ISI will support a man whose responsible for the deaths of thousands of Pakistani's. Learn to accept the facts Good Sir instead of cooked up fantasies

classical1939
02 May 11,, 18:27
Now isn't that embarassing for Pakistan-to be caught having dinner with America's number 1 most wanted. Becuase that is the only way they were present. It also says alot about thier skill- taken alive in Osama's compund without killing even a single American. Well it is the ISI after, about all they can do is kill civvies and mislead thier own population.


Sir, i have less than elementary knowledge about military ops.. but somehow i really dont find it believable that 4 helos flew into a city 90 kms from the capital without prior detection.... the pakistanis are not gaga after all.. and logic says the defences around their capital will demand the best men and infrastructure. so at some level there must have been some pakistani cooperation.. maybe just a few men who gained trust....

Hilal123
02 May 11,, 18:28
Just heard opnion of Gen (r) Aslam Beg , ex COAS Pakistan Army , his opion is that this is just drama done to further malign Pakistan Army and the ISI.

This reminds me of that ending of the transformer movie in which Megatron is dumped into the Sea , mysteriously Osam-bin-tron meets the same fate.... this ... just BLOWS!

classical1939
02 May 11,, 18:31
Just heard opnion of Gen (r) Aslam Beg , ex COAS Pakistan Army , his opion is that this is just drama done to further malign Pakistan Army and the ISI.

This reminds me of that ending of the transformer movie in which Megatron is dumped into the Sea , mysteriously Osam-bin-tron meets the same fate.... this ... just BLOWS!


let's hope we wont be having a sequel.............

Mihais
02 May 11,, 18:32
Sir sorry to say but these speculations of 'could have' or 'would have' are not helping at all. Lets wait for the official events of how the raids took place, but this is verified that ISI's agents and SSG's commandos were present at the location during the time of the attack at that compound. Contrary to what a lot of people say on this forum, cooperation between Pakistan's Military and US Military can be described as "good". It is in Pakistan's interest to take out Bin Laden and this is exactly what the ISI did in cooperation with the Americans.

It was indeed in Pakistani interest to get rid of OBL.It will remove the Americans from your backyard.Heartily congratulations.You won(sorta'),the West also won(sorta') while OBL,strangely won as well.Alive he was an embarrassment for his own cause.Now,the ''democratic'' revolutions will have a clearer path,with less chance of intervention against possible fundamentalism.
Everybody's happy today.Hurrah,hurraah.:Dancing-Banana:

Of course,it's all speculation on my part.:rolleyes:

zraver
02 May 11,, 18:32
Adapted from POD's "Youth of the Nation"

"Vengeance Of The Nation"

Last day of the rest of my life I wish I would have known cause I'd have kissed my ass goobye.

I didn't tell the ISI that I loved them for how much they cared

or thank the Taliban for all the caves, mansions and explosives they shared.

Unaware I just did what I always do. Every night the same routine before I head off to bed

But who knew that this night wasn't like the rest, instead of taking a rest I took two to the chest.

Call me blind but I didn't see it coming and SEALs were rappelling but I couldn't
hear nothing, I didn't really hear the 60's comming except gun blast, it happened so fast

cause I brought the towers down in a crash

there are these SEALs showing no love

for a moment I forgot who Uncle Sam was

or maybe I just wanted to be a thug,

whatever it was I know its because....

We are We are the most powerful nation
We are We are the most powerful nation
We are We are the most powerful nation
We are We are the most powerful nation

Dreadnought
02 May 11,, 18:36
As has been everything else with else with AQ, this story is fishy. What really stands out the most is that WHY did they dump his body at sea?!? The United States paraded the dead body of Saddam Hussain and his sons with a lot of fanfare as was done witd the dead body Abu Musab Zaraqwi so WHY not bin laden?

The idea that

Of lately the relationship between the US and Pakistan had been heading south quite fast and the American military pulled out this rabbit from their hat to pressurise Pakistan.


Simply word of mouth cannot be trusted as the US military has made fake stories in the pas also ..ala rescue of Private Jessica Lynch

So this story about US marines descending on Abbotababd and killing bin laden needs to be verified with the picture of the dead body of bin laden other wise this story is just baloney.

Personally I think Bin Laden has been dead for very long time now and this drama is aimed at pressuring Pakistan. The US MUST at least release a picture of the dead body of Bin Laden; other wise doubts will persist as to what really happened.

The US did not parade Saddam Husseins body around any place nor his sons, he was hung after being found guilty by a court of his own peers and buried. Images were taken by media in the field not a representative of the US and we believe in Freedom of Press, otherwise they would not be permitted to be with our military in the field. Saddams Hussein was "hands off" to our military once his court case began. The Iraqi's hung and buried Saddam not the US.

His body was buried at sea to not offend the Islamic religion and by culture to be buried within 24 hours and not to give idiots a place to worship him. The only ones worshiping his ass right now are the fish in the sea and even they would probably gag on it.

They already had Bin Ladens DNA to match via his children after the attacks of 9-11. And no doubt images were taken and more then likely classified immediately.

The US is not in the business of parading bodies in the streets like other "countries". They dont do it out of respect. You cant earn respect without giving it first.

n21
02 May 11,, 18:37
For people who would say that ISI never knew about OBL is in Pakistan, they are missing some obvious things. Why would OBL, the world's most wanted man decided to live in a PA military garrison that too so close to PA academy, when PA is self declared front line ally of US? and is suppose to be committed to capture him. This can only happen if he had rock solid safety been offered. If he thought it was safe in Abbottabad, then either is really stupid and not worth the bullet or he better apply for a rented house near the White House. It is one and the same.

Second, why would Pakistan allow US to publicly capture OBL inside proper Pakistan? Do we think Pakistan would not be aware of the resultant PR disaster?

And if Pakistan was truly "assisting" US and involved in ops and all, man they missed a golden opportunity. Given the bad press they have been receiving recently, all they had to do was to capture OBL them selves and shout from the roof top. Suddenly Pakistan would become the blue eyed boy of the world and no one would have been able to question Pakistan's commitment against terror.

So ISI did not know about OBL? I have a large white colored monument in my country to sell. Generally referred as Taj Mahal.

ambidex
02 May 11,, 18:37
According to ex RAW chief ~''this operation was same like any drone attack inside Pakistan. It took more time because they had to pledge men for this operation. The very first basic of intelligence is to establish ''Who should know the Information''. Given the trust deficit between Pakistan and USA (example he gave: friction between ISI and CIA to share information about a large number of US operatives (~3K) inside Pakistan) no way on earth the information about this operation could have been shared with Pakistani agencies.

As per his theory Pakistan has permitted USA to conduct operations inside Pakistan at whim (Pakistan has no say how and when these should be conducted i.e tactical & logistical independence). With very few examples of joint operations or large military operations, the drone strike and operations like such are carried out by getting intelligence from Pakistan based Pakistani/US sources those who are paid heavily and without the knowledge of Pakistani agencies''.

Hilal123
02 May 11,, 18:40
In way this is good that the Amercans have finally killed the 'ghost' of Bin Laden , for 10 years now this guy was the chief bogey man of the elaborate horror stroy that has been fed to the US public. So this 'killing by special forces' gives this horrors story the fairytale ending that hollywood as got the wider US public accoustomed to


in the end Democrats are one up for the next elections

gunnut
02 May 11,, 18:41
The 72 virgins will be large men who will make his rear end their playground.

Maybe he enjoys that...

Dreadnought
02 May 11,, 18:45
In way this is good that the Amercans have finally killed the 'ghost' of Bin Laden , for 10 years now this guy was the chief bogey man of the elaborate horror stroy that has been fed to the US public. So this 'killing by special forces' gives this horrors story the fairytale ending that hollywood as got the wider US public accoustomed to

in the end Democrats are one up for the next elections

This tells me you dont know much, why would the Democrats even think this would sway politics in America when it was a Republican (Bush) who led this war on terror?

Do you seriously think this will sway public opinion of Democrats and give them a step up? If so, then its you living the fairy tale, not the people of the US.

Basically IMO, I think were hearing sour grapes that a murdering bastard like him is dead. Ask all of his victims if they are sorry he's dead. I doubt you find even one that is.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 18:46
Now isn't that embarassing for Pakistan-to be caught having dinner with America's number 1 most wanted. Becuase that is the only way they were present. It also says alot about thier skill- taken alive in Osama's compund without killing even a single American. Well it is the ISI after, about all they can do is kill civvies and mislead thier own population.
Funny (deliberate) misinterpretation of the comments made by NE, but it should be clear that he was stating that Pakistani officials were present at the location in the process of assisting with the operation.

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 18:54
Clinton: Pakistan helped lead US to bin Laden

(AP) – 59 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton says counterterror cooperation with Pakistan helped lead the U.S. to al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and the compound outside the Pakistani capital where American special forces killed him.
Speaking to reporters at the State Department on Monday, Clinton thanked Pakistan for its cooperation and said that country "has contributed greatly to our efforts to dismantle al-Qaida." She said that "in fact, cooperation with Pakistan helped lead us to bin Laden and the compound in which he was hiding."
Clinton's comments came amid questions over whether Pakistani intelligence and military officials knew of bin Laden's whereabouts so close to Islamabad and whether they had shared the information with the United States.

The Associated Press: Clinton: Pakistan helped lead US to bin Laden (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h_bFKKf1RfrTltnFZZQhENUHqL2w?docId=04fab960d 1154397a4a707f8059bd8cf)

Surreal McCoy
02 May 11,, 18:54
Your faith in Pak technology vs US technology is rather incredible.

Hello, long time listener, first time caller...

Is there a means for nominating selected quotes for "Understatement of the Year"?

notorious_eagle
02 May 11,, 18:55
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Monday said co-operation with Pakistan helped lead the United States to the compound where Osama bin Laden was found and killed by U.S. special forces.

Clinton says Pakistani co-operation helped lead to bin Laden compound - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/clinton-says-pakistani-co-operation-helped-lead-to-bin-laden-compound/article2006541/)

n21
02 May 11,, 18:57
Sand artist in India.

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8185/52453645ap.jpg

Dreadnought
02 May 11,, 19:00
U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton on Monday said co-operation with Pakistan helped lead the United States to the compound where Osama bin Laden was found and killed by U.S. special forces.

Clinton says Pakistani co-operation helped lead to bin Laden compound - The Globe and Mail (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/clinton-says-pakistani-co-operation-helped-lead-to-bin-laden-compound/article2006541/)

Yep, no doubt to qwell any backlash from the American people and the amount of funding Pakistan recieves from the US annually. 10 years and one wonders just how long they have known he was "in country". You can bet that question never gets answered truthfully.:rolleyes:

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 19:03
Yep, no doubt to qwell any backlash from the American people and the amount of funding Pakistan recieves from the US annually.
Why would she want to 'quell any backlash' if your subsequent comment is anywhere close to accurate?


10 years and one wonders just how long they have known he was "in country". You can bet that question never gets answered truthfully.:rolleyes:

Agnostic Muslim
02 May 11,, 19:04
She failes to mention that cooperation between the Taliban, AQ and "others" has also impeeded US logistics in Pakistan for a very long time. I wonder how long they have known that one too.:rolleyes:

She also fails to mention the thousands of Pakistanis (civilians, intelligence agents, soldiers) killed by the 'cooperation between the Taliban, AQ and others'.

How long do you think they knew about that one? :rolleyes:

Hilal123
02 May 11,, 19:05
The US did not parade Saddam Husseins body around any place nor his sons, he was hung after being found guilty by a court of his own peers and buried. Images were taken by media in the field not a representative of the US and we believe in Freedom of Press, otherwise they would not be permitted to be with our military in the field. Saddams Hussein was "hands off" to our military once his court case began. The Iraqi's hung and buried Saddam not the US.

His body was buried at sea to not offend the Islamic religion and by culture to be buried within 24 hours and not to give idiots a place to worship him. The only ones worshiping his ass right now are the fish in the sea and even they would probably gag on it.

They already had Bin Ladens DNA to match via his children after the attacks of 9-11. And no doubt images were taken and more then likely classified immediately.

The US is not in the business of parading bodies in the streets like other "countries". They dont do it out of respect. You cant earn respect without giving it first.

When bin laden was alive ( 10 years back ) him and his follower were followers of the teachings of Abdul Wahab worshipping graves or even visiting them is a strictly NO NO kind of thing , in fact they say that graves should not even be marked and with time the sign of the grave should be allowed to fade away. Throwing the body at sea is not in any Islamic school of thought.

Your calim that American don’t celebrate or put on display the high value targets they have killed out of respect is just not true. People right now celebrated in the streets of New Yok and Washington , they wanted revenge and the announcement of the killing made them come out on the streets and celebrate.

The US has drawn and quartered its enemies ( and the enemies of Israel ) in a very public way , with media teams and visuals etc ... that’s how the voters know that their government is out killing those who attacked America on 9/11.

The US had full control over the proceedings in Iraq when Saddam was found hiding in a hole , in fact US forces found him and to say that 'it was his own people' who killed him in the end is just a smoke screen

So my question is where is the visual proof that the US had Bin Laden's body in custody?

If they had if for while , they could have snapped a few pics, like US soldiers have been doing with dead bodies in afghanistan , I mean which US marine would miss the oppertunity of getting pic taken with the trophy of the 10 year War.

Simply giving out a statement that 'We killed Bin Laden in Abbotabad , Pakistan and then took his body to be thrown in the sea' just doesn’t seem to very truthful.
Its quite dubious specially the throwing of the body at sea part.

Dreadnought
02 May 11,, 19:06
Why would she want to 'quell any backlash' if your subsequent comment is anywhere close to accurate?

Umm, maybe because of the billions in US taxpayer money they have recieved in aid over the last 10 years while our logistics (food,fuel,ammo) and others has been destroyed in Pakistan on a weekly basis and no doubt with their complacent knowledge. IMO Nothing for alot would piss me off too. Think about it and the keeping of such agreements would probably end careers once known.

citanon
02 May 11,, 19:06
My God, they were present at the location in cooperation with the Americans. Why are you speculating that OBL is in bed with the ISI, there is no proof to support your ridiculous claims just like your absurd claimed that the ISI is responsible for the attacks in Mumbai. The Americans wanted to conduct the operation on their own as its their war, ISI and SSG were present at the location to observe. This should be proof enough that Pakistan was aware of this operation long before, its all B.S that ISI would have tipped him off. ISI is an organization made of Pakistanis not some aliens, do you honestly think the ISI will support a man whose responsible for the deaths of thousands of Pakistani's. Learn to accept the facts Good Sir instead of cooked up fantasies

They might have been informed when the SEALS were on the first floor and Osama was on the 2nd floor.

The compound was on a hill about 700 m away from a Pakistani military academy. When it was built it was the only compound on the hill. It is 5x larger than any house nearby and was, by all descriptions, a castle.

A couple of years ago some one in our neighborhood did build an enormous mansion a mile away on top of a hill. Believe me every neighbor knew and were curious about it.

By telling me that the ISI did not know he was there, you are trying to convince me that the ISI is more laid back than a bunch of west coast soccer moms. Sorry, don't buy it.

drhuy
02 May 11,, 19:08
She also fails to mention the thousands of Pakistanis (civilians, intelligence agents, soldiers) killed by the 'cooperation between the Taliban, AQ and others'.

How long do you think they knew about that one? :rolleyes:

Why would someone care when you caused all this by yourself?

notorious_eagle
02 May 11,, 19:09
Umm, maybe because of the billions in US taxpayer money they have recieved in aid over the last 10 years while our logistics (food,fuel,ammo) and others has been destroyed in Pakistan on a weekly basis and no doubt with their complacent knowledge. IMO Nothing for alot would piss me off too. Think about it.

Sir Pakistan has received close to $20 billion in aid as compared to $60 billion in damages its economy has suffered due to WOT, thats a deficit of $40 billion and not to mention 30 000 people have lost their lives. In terms of wealth and human cost, Pakistan has been at the loosing end.