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View Full Version : Why does everyone assume plastic means weak?



Repatriated Canuck
26 May 05,, 18:05
I've gone through a lot of threads and it seems so many people really hate the plastic composites on rifles today. I mean they are quite durable and lighter which means everything if you've already got a lot of weight to carry in your rucksack.
When I went to basic in 98 (just reserves going reg force CDN infantry when I get home from my travells) I saw my corporal stomp on the charging handle of my C-7 with the butt on the ground to clear a stoppage. It didn't break and I mean he stomped the crap out of it. I did however, get a chewing out as he went around a hut and told me to stay put but I wanted to see what he was doing.

I saw those things put through **** and abuse and still work just fine. That being said I don't know anything about how durable the collapsible stock is. It can't be too bad though. It's not likle you'd use it to beat a concrete wall now would you. Even a wooden stock isn't going to open a reinforced door before someone mentions it. That's what explosives are for... :biggrin:

Bill
26 May 05,, 18:15
The only concern with the stock is that it be strong enough to open an enemy soldiers skull.

IMO, the M-4 stock is a bit flimsy for that.

Plastic weps got a bit of a bad reputation because the Early weps were prone to breaking and cracking their plastic furniture.

Repatriated Canuck
26 May 05,, 18:36
I can definately see that point but we've come a long way since then.
IMO what does that mean? Sorry if it's a stupid question.

Bill
26 May 05,, 19:18
IMO = In My Opinion
IME= In My Experience

Etcetera, etcetera. ;)

Shek
26 May 05,, 19:20
I can definately see that point but we've come a long way since then.
IMO what does that mean? Sorry if it's a stupid question.

IMO - In my opinion
IMHO - In my humble opinion

My favorite, but one that I've never seen used (I had a philosophy professor that used it all the time - he was a crack up)

IMHYHAO - In my humble yet highly accurate opinion

Bill
26 May 05,, 19:28
IMNSHO is a good one too.

"In my not so humble opinion".

sniperdude411
26 May 05,, 23:42
I would like to add-on my set of IMOs.

IMHOWIAF:
"In my humble opinion which is actually fact"

IMIFHO:
"In my invisible friend's honest opinion"

Oh boy, this could go on and on forever...

Shek
26 May 05,, 23:47
The only concern with the stock is that it be strong enough to open an enemy soldiers skull.

IMO, the M-4 stock is a bit flimsy for that.

Plastic weps got a bit of a bad reputation because the Early weps were prone to breaking and cracking their plastic furniture.

The fixed the problem three years ago with an improved collapsible stock so you can smash away without snapping it off.

sniperdude411
27 May 05,, 03:26
Too bad they didn't put that feature on my airsoft version...

Repatriated Canuck
27 May 05,, 15:43
Thanks guys.

Oooh and the new stock is better? Great Canada will have that when I join in a year and a bit. Seeing the world right now.

Shek
27 May 05,, 15:56
Thanks guys.

Oooh and the new stock is better? Great Canada will have that when I join in a year and a bit. Seeing the world right now.

It is improved over the old stock, but still functions in the exact same way (three length settings). This has been done to US Army M4 carbines. I don't know if an improved version has been fielded to the Canadian Army or if they initially fielded at better collapsible stock that hasn't needed to be replaced. Compared to a wood stock, it has less mass, so your power will come mainly from the velocity of the stock when it meets your target. However, I'd still prefer to carry less weight.

Repatriated Canuck
27 May 05,, 16:47
There was a previous post about the updates we are doing to the c-7 with links and all. It was what made me sure I want to come home to Canada to enlist as I seriously considered joining the British Army. I started researching the SA-80A2 as I have a South African friend who joined here and was asking his advice. That's how I ended up on the board. Very informative now I'm hooked.

For some reason not being able to fire from my left shoulder seemed stupid even though I'm right handed. Why expose so much of myself to shoot around a corner?

The article I found here mentioned the Royal 22e in Afganistan is trying out the newer version. They've shortened it etc. Basically it's like everyone will be issued something similar to an M-4. It's in the firearms thread here somewhere.

Repatriated Canuck
27 May 05,, 16:50
Here we go.


http://www.sfu.ca/casr/101-c7a2.htm

sniperdude411
27 May 05,, 17:39
Oooo..... The C79a2 has a FOUR-position adjustable stock.

Lunatock
27 May 05,, 18:58
IMHBYWIFYDO -In My Humble But Your Wrong If You Disagree Opinion. ;)

Bill
27 May 05,, 21:22
"The fixed the problem three years ago with an improved collapsible stock so you can smash away without snapping it off."

I've yet to see one of those.

When you land back at a unit you need to invite ole' snipe out for a VIP tour so i can get some hands on with this stuff. ;)

Bill
27 May 05,, 21:24
"It is improved over the old stock, but still functions in the exact same way (three length settings). This has been done to US Army M4 carbines."

I'm actually short enough(5'7") that i can comfortably shoulder the weapon with the stock in the collapsed position, lol.

sniperdude411
27 May 05,, 21:57
It's not bad for me to shoulder the thing collapsed, but I'm really inaccurate shooting like that.

And I'll be sure to take you on a tour when I join (hopefully you'll be able to shoot the new guns, if the army adopts them in time); you won't even have to drive that far!

Bill
27 May 05,, 22:04
Thanx for the offer, but low ranking EMs don't really get to offer VIP tours...just officers and SNCOs. ;)

dave angel
27 May 05,, 22:30
the plastic pig - or SA80 as it is known, used to have a tendency to break in very cold temperatures - triggers and trigger guards snapped, pistol grip came off in ones hand and the barrel housing could shatter if the weapon clattered against anything hard. however, the plastic has been changed and the weapon itself is quite robust and can easily fulfil the role of club without breaking, though it being a bullpup design means we don't have the problems of a collapsable stock.

Bill
27 May 05,, 22:39
One of these days i plan to get to scotland. I'm about 50% scot.

When that day comes, i'll take you up on your offer if it still stands. ;)

Shek
27 May 05,, 23:08
"The fixed the problem three years ago with an improved collapsible stock so you can smash away without snapping it off."

I've yet to see one of those.

When you land back at a unit you need to invite ole' snipe out for a VIP tour so i can get some hands on with this stuff. ;)

It'll be another five years, but no problem. Just no driving Navy ships in the Pacific!

Shek
27 May 05,, 23:10
"It is improved over the old stock, but still functions in the exact same way (three length settings). This has been done to US Army M4 carbines."

I'm actually short enough(5'7") that i can comfortably shoulder the weapon with the stock in the collapsed position, lol.

5'9 1/2" and I used it in the collapsed position as well during CQM and extended it only for longer range shooting (when we didn't have the ceramic plates in our IBA).

Shek
27 May 05,, 23:11
One of these days i plan to get to scotland. I'm about 50% scot.

When that day comes, i'll take you up on your offer if it still stands. ;)

If it's not Scottish, it's crrrappp! :biggrin:

dave angel
28 May 05,, 18:31
One of these days i plan to get to scotland. I'm about 50% scot.

When that day comes, i'll take you up on your offer if it still stands. ;)

i edited my post as i didn't want half the board turning up on my doorstep looking for tea and toast!

if you are ever over here send me a PM, there's a long range (6km FF range) facility at fort george near inverness to go with the excellent mess, you'd be very welcome to have a little pot - jacket and tie obviously...

L96 ok for you?

Bill
28 May 05,, 20:27
Sure.

Been about 15 years since i stepped on any range longer than 300 yards though, so you have to promise not to laugh until i get good and warmed up. ;)

dave angel
28 May 05,, 20:31
i am unlikely to be having a giggle at anyone elses shooting, my last APWT appeared to have been done by stevie wonder in a gyroscope...

Bill
28 May 05,, 23:53
I would actually welcome the chance to get to a nice long range and see how quickly it came back to me. The ranges around here are all 25-30yd pistol ranges. There's a single 100yd range about 90mins away, and 3 1/2 hours away in Western Pa there's a 500yd range. When i hunt on my uncles property, it's all mountainous brushland, and shots rarely exceed 75 meters. He's also got a pretty cool little plinking range on his property, but the length of that is only about 60yds.

Lots of pistol ranges though, and as a result, i am a much better pistol than rifle shot now.

dave angel
29 May 05,, 20:27
obviously we don't have civilian rifle ranges per se, but you can use privately held licenced rifles on open land.

the fort george range is formed by a glen in fairly high, ruggedly mountainous terrain. theres about 600m of accent on either side available and the range is about 6km long by 3km wide, targets can be put anywhere you like and only one unit uses it at a time.

we found that its best used as a 'real-time' excercise involving concealment and observation/movement rather than just a large expance to burn up ammunition over.

the snipers in all the battalions i've worked with seemed to be more obsessed with their field skills than in the purely shooting element of the job, would that tally with your experience?

Bill
30 May 05,, 11:29
Absolutely, i would agree.

Fieldcraft is far more important than pure shooting skill the vast majority of the time.

sniperdude411
30 May 05,, 17:12
I would actually welcome the chance to get to a nice long range and see how quickly it came back to me. The ranges around here are all 25-30yd pistol ranges. There's a single 100yd range about 90mins away, and 3 1/2 hours away in Western Pa there's a 500yd range. When i hunt on my uncles property, it's all mountainous brushland, and shots rarely exceed 75 meters. He's also got a pretty cool little plinking range on his property, but the length of that is only about 60yds.

Lots of pistol ranges though, and as a result, i am a much better pistol than rifle shot now.

My backyard is about 400 yards long, but if I wanted to, I could shoot on my step-grandpa's land at up to 800 yards!