Muslim Integration and Multi-culturalism

[NeilE]

There sure are a lot of these "extremists" running around. I surmise the average everyday muslims can be easily converted to "extremists" too.

Give me any type of person from any country that suffers from such abject poverty, complete lack of education and who lives in a war zone and I guarantee you they will be easily converted to do the most barbaric things regardless of religon.

For instance, christians are carrying out the most barbaric acts in the name of christianity in Africa but it would be wrong to label all christians as being easily converted to extremists because of the actions of that minority. There is 1 billion muslims in the world, believe me if they were all easily converted to extremists there would be a much bigger problem than there is now.

[gunnut]

gunnut,



considering the literacy, naturally xenophobic culture and societal structure in afghanistan which places quite a bit of emphasis on imams...are you surprised?

moreover, what's an "average everyday muslim"? like i said, the life/beliefs of your average everyday muslim in indonesia is not the same as one in china, or afghanistan, or egypt, or turkey...or for that matter dearborn, michigan.

in any case, i'm waiting until the details behind this are clearer. we're getting conflicting reports on the role the taliban may or may not have played in this.

Bottom line, they need to learn to be more...what's that word I'm searching for....oh yeah, tolerant.

I'm against homosexual marriage but you don't see me gathering a bunch of conservatives and burn down a gay bar in West Hollywood.

[gunnut]

Give me any type of person from any country that suffers from such abject poverty, complete lack of education and who lives in a war zone and I guarantee you they will be easily converted to do the most barbaric things regardless of religon.

For instance, christians are carrying out the most barbaric acts in the name of christianity in Africa but it would be wrong to label all christians as being easily converted to extremists because of the actions of that minority. There is 1 billion muslims in the world, believe me if they were all easily converted to extremists there would be a much bigger problem than there is now.

That sounds like the defense the criminals use in court often: I was raised in a bad environment. It's not my fault. My father beat me when I was little. My mom was an alcoholic.

Some people should take responsibility for this.

Also, I merely asked the question. I didn't even suggest what we should do. No where did I suggest we should bomb them, machinegun them, take revenge on muslims elsewhere, burn down a mosque, or any such thing. I have been way more tolerant than they could be.

[Double Edge]

There sure are a lot of these "extremists" running around.

So how many is that out of a billion. Keeping count are you ?

I surmise the average everyday muslims can be easily converted to "extremists" too.

But Islam means peace, if you follow Islam you become peaceful.

If you are not peaceful, then you are not following Islam.

These are 'lost sheep'

[gunnut]

So how many is that out of a billion. Keeping count are you ?

But Islam means peace, if you follow Islam you become peaceful.

If you are not peaceful, then you are not following Islam.

These are 'lost sheep'

Good explanation. My question is if "not peaceful" people are not muslims, does that mean if we kill them, we would not have offended islam?

Same question I had with that ground zero mosque thing. The supporters said it's a "multi faith" center. Then why would they be offended if we don't want it built?

[Double Edge]

Good explanation. My question is if "not peaceful" people are not muslims, does that mean if we kill them, we would not have offended islam?

If you are going to kill anybody then you do not care what they believe in.

There's a lot more to life than religion. All of that goes. Their families are not going to be too impressed.

Same question I had with that ground zero mosque thing. The supporters said it's a "multi faith" center. Then why would they be offended if we don't want it built?

Was trying to stay out of that 49 page thread. As a former new yorker, one that lived through 9/11, my take was, if the laws did not prevent it then there was no issue. But law did not seem like a sufficient reason in this case going by the flow in that thread. It became about whether it was 'advisable'. How the heck do you make a case on that basis

You took away the rational framework in which to argue and pushed into sentiment. And then its just rhetoirical mayhem & sparta.

[gunnut]

You took away the rational framework in which to argue and pushed into sentiment. And then its just rhetoirical mayhem & sparta.

Let's not get into the "sensitivity" thing we are always told about.

Why don't people care about our sensitivities?

[chakos]

I am sure we could employ A10 Warthog shepherds ;)

Thats not very tolerant of you at all Dave... using a plane named after a pig to kill Muslims.

We must be sensitive to their religious tolerances.

I propose using Minuteman III's as they would be far less offensive, cause less protests and show our tolerance and sensitivity to different cultures as well as teaching them a little about the American Revolutionary War.

Soft power mixed with hard power... I kinda like it

[gunnut]

So how many is that out of a billion. Keeping count are you ?

Well, let's see...there were 3000 right there.

[Double Edge]

Why don't people care about our sensitivities?

Who's 'our' here ?

Got the distinct impression from that thread that the further away one was from ground zero the more the resistance to the idea. So naturally, who better than that imam from Alaska to lead the parade.

True what they say about chaos theory -- flap arms in Alaska, make um big storm in NYC :)

[gunnut]

Who's 'our' here ?

"Our" as in any non-muslim culture. And there are plenty in the world that tip-toe around muslims.

More specifically, "our" as in the US. Because we are the world.

[USSWisconsin]

Originally Posted by chakos
Thats not very tolerant of you at all Dave... using a plane named after a pig to kill Muslims

We have tanks called Abrams - perhaps they would prefer to be killed by these, since the name sounds like their patriach.

[Wayfarer]

Well, the clothes she was wearing, she was pretty much asking for it...

Do we even need to cite the source there..... A few examples of this in action in Tehran.

Condolences to the family members of the servicemen who lost their lives.

My one question to the forum, perhaps not the place to broach it, but really doesn't this kind of action make you want to halt Islamic immigration in general? Especially if you are living in Europe/Australia, where it is a relatively bigger problem than in America, which has a few oceans in the way. As a youth, I am against Islamic Immigration, but when I even attempt to broach the topic, firstly the ideas are met with jeers and laughter, incredulity that I could say something so un-PC. I know not many people are social conservatives these days, but the fact is a growing mainstream liberalism (left-wing soc liberalism) makes such an attitude the norm, and any attempt at challenging PC is destroyed. We are really seeing Freedom of Speech getting destroyed.

[Dante]

Do we even need to cite the source there..... A few examples of this in action in Tehran.

Condolences to the family members of the servicemen who lost their lives.

My one question to the forum, perhaps not the place to broach it, but really doesn't this kind of action make you want to halt Islamic immigration in general? Especially if you are living in Europe/Australia, where it is a relatively bigger problem than in America, which has a few oceans in the way. As a youth, I am against Islamic Immigration, but when I even attempt to broach the topic, firstly the ideas are met with jeers and laughter, incredulity that I could say something so un-PC. I know not many people are social conservatives these days, but the fact is a growing mainstream liberalism (left-wing soc liberalism) makes such an attitude the norm, and any attempt at challenging PC is destroyed. We are really seeing Freedom of Speech getting destroyed.

You aren't very tolerant to other people's beliefs and needs,aren't you?:P

Seriously ,I don't know about Australia,but WESTERN europe has a real problem with this...and it will only grow and grow in the future.Eastern europe dosen't have this problem,not at this magnitude,partialy because we are less tolerant about all this...and beeing a poorer region has an advantage.I don't have a problem with your average imigrant who just wants a better life,muslim or not, and I don't think imigration should be stoped with one major condition:integrate in the society who has accepted you.Dont ask for special treatment because of "cultural diversity or sensitivity"You want to keep your culture,fine,do it at home but don';t try to impose youre beliefs or values.


I can;t help to rememebr a scene I saw,in London I think,a couple of years ago:at a muslim meeting,in a square,some where preaching to the crowd the distrucion of western civilization and culture..it's incredible,the police didn't intervine,thos idiots wheren't put on the first boat heading home,nothing happened...and nothing will happen,sadly,western europe will just "tolerize" it;s way to a disaster...

Condolences to the people who died..and,again..nothing will happen that will avenge their deaths...

Sorry for my bad english.

[Double Edge]

My one question to the forum, perhaps not the place to broach it, but really doesn't this kind of action make you want to halt Islamic immigration in general? Especially if you are living in Europe/Australia, where it is a relatively bigger problem than in America, which has a few oceans in the way. As a youth, I am against Islamic Immigration, but when I even attempt to broach the topic, firstly the ideas are met with jeers and laughter, incredulity that I could say something so un-PC. I know not many people are social conservatives these days, but the fact is a growing mainstream liberalism (left-wing soc liberalism) makes such an attitude the norm, and any attempt at challenging PC is destroyed.

What do propose to do with those muslims living there already ?

Do they suddenly become persona non grata.

In which case aren't you also guilty of doing the same to them that you accuse them off in the first place ie generalising.

We are really seeing Freedom of Speech getting destroyed.

If the govt does anything to Jones over this then yes otherwise no.