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  • Your Opinion on Ammunition

    I went to Border's today, and broke-down and bought a Special Weapons magazine, in which there was an article titled "Fixing the M16." it stated many alternatives to the Xm8, including the use of the 6.8 SPC.
    IMO, either the xm8 in frangible 5.56, or the m16a4 in 6.8 frangible would do.

    Your opinion???

  • #2
    The M-16A4 is about as 'fixed' as it's ever going to get.

    It is extremely accurate, with no serious shortcomings besides the cartridge. It would be no big deal to re-chamber it for some other round if someone felt it neccesary.

    The US military 'needs' the XM-8 like it needs a friggin' hole in it's head. Change just for change sake is not exactly the best way to spend your limited budget IMO.

    In fact, it's pretty damned stupid if you ask me...

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    • #3
      After even further thought, I would definitely go with the m16a4 in 6.8. A change to the xm8 would be WAY too costly, and would wreak havoc in training the trainers and soldiers, etc. And the m16a4 looks pretty cool, too...
      The army doesn't need the xm8 that much.

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      • #4
        Amother ammunition question:
        Should the Army be able to use hollow-point ammo in all circumstances?

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        • #5
          I don't think there should be a ban on hollowpoints. If anything, they're a more efficient way of getting the job done.
          "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

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          • #6
            There is no ban on hollowpoints.

            The military generally doesn't use them though. I imagine it's for PR reasons.

            Imagine the left's response if the US started issuing "Inhumane dum-dum bullets designed to cause grevious wounds".

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            • #7
              That's ridiculous. They should issue them, then.
              If going up against a foe with no vest protection,one wants hollowpint, correct?
              However, if going up against vested adversaries, then one wants FMJ?

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              • #8
                Pretty much, yeah.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by sniperdude411
                  I went to Border's today, and broke-down and bought a Special Weapons magazine, in which there was an article titled "Fixing the M16." it stated many alternatives to the Xm8, including the use of the 6.8 SPC.
                  IMO, either the xm8 in frangible 5.56, or the m16a4 in 6.8 frangible would do.

                  Your opinion???
                  Frangible bullets have very limited use. Ricochets give you a "second chance" to hit targets.
                  "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by shek
                    Frangible bullets have very limited use. Ricochets give you a "second chance" to hit targets.
                    Frangible bullets offer short to mid-range AP capabilities, and are more devestating than a hollow-point round.
                    And yes, ricochets do give you a "second chance", but also give the bullet a chance to hit you or your buddies.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by sniperdude411
                      Frangible bullets offer short to mid-range AP capabilities, and are more devestating than a hollow-point round.
                      And yes, ricochets do give you a "second chance", but also give the bullet a chance to hit you or your buddies.
                      That's why you apply surface danger zones to your maneuver plan through various control measures. Frangibles are used in the Army for training, and that's only because they are "greener" for the environment.
                      "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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                      • #12
                        If we use non-FMJ then they will do the same too.

                        FMJ will make nasty wounds in it self. Seen lots of POWs with wounds from 5.56 in ODS. Have dealt with GSW more many years. Unfortunately more damage is created removing and cleaning up devitalized tissue along the wound track. Adding more fragments to the wound is messy. I didn’t want to get hit by any of it.

                        Remember we are fighting a humane war. OK, I’m trying to stop laughing.

                        I think the banning of dum-dums and other soft nose or frangible bullets leaned over into hollow points. BTHP doesn’t have a large hole like pistol ammunition. BTHP have been used for years in accurized shooting.

                        Once and a while my bleeding heart gets loose.
                        AK-Dave

                        Those who trade liberty for security have none.

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                        • #13
                          "Once and a while my bleeding heart gets loose."

                          Need a swift kick in the can to get it squared away? Just lemme know Sar'ent...i'm there for ya. ;)

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                          • #14
                            Thanx,

                            Good to know the troops are ready to help.

                            I KNOW you aren’t enjoying the process of rewiring my head and a$$ properly. :)
                            AK-Dave

                            Those who trade liberty for security have none.

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                            • #15
                              I don't get why dum-dum bullets are more "inhumane." It should be the other way around: Hollow-points/frangible kills you faster, causing less suffering.

                              The article in that gun magazine described how this one soldier shot the iraqi with a frangible bullet in the a$$, and almost completely desintegrated his intestines, liver, and even stomach. Put him on the ground right away, even with a 5.56.

                              And frangibles aren't used in training only because they're environmentally friendly, but also because they don't ricochet in close-range/indoor shooting. They provide full-diameter armor-piercing capabilities, and are more deadly than a hollow-point. Alsmost as deadly and safe as a glaser safety slug.

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