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  • Breaking news: Turkey to commemorate armenian genocide day

    Turkey may send minister to Armenian genocide observance
    Turkey may send minister to Armenian genocide observance

    In a move aimed at least in part at strengthening its bid to join the European Union, the government of Turkey has announced that it will formally participate in official commemorations of the Armenian genocide, held worldwide on April 24.

    The announcement comes on the heels of Turkey's first official participation in ceremonies observing the Jewish Holocaust. On Holocaust Remembrance Day, Jan. 27, a representative of Turkey's Foreign Ministry visited Istanbul's Jewish community, and Minister for European Union Affairs Egemen Bagis became the first Turkish government official to visit the Holocaust memorial at Auschwitz.

    While the Turkish government statement about the Armenian genocide observances does not state what official actions it will take, it did state that Turkey will participate actively in April 24 observances and step up contacts with the Armenian diaspora, in particular the Armenian community in the United States. Turkey said the move is aimed at overcoming the "psychological barrier" between Turkey and Armenia.

    It can be inferred from both the timing of the announcement and the government's participation in the Holocaust observance that even if it does not take place this year, a Turkish government minister will attend an official commemoration of the Armenian genocide in the very near future.

    The announcement was also presented as a further step along the path Turkey set out on when it signed protocols with the Armenian government outlining a path towards normalization of relations between the two countries. Armenia and Armenians worldwide have criticized Turkey for denying the Ottoman government's role in the deaths of 1.5 million Armenians during a campaign of forced exile and extermination that began in April 1915.

    In recent years, Turkish newspapers have published more frequent commentaries calling on the government to formally recognize the genocide. Last year, Turkish authorities allowed a private observance of the genocide anniversary privately organized by Armenians living in Istanbul to take place, also a first. The Turkish government has also quietly dropped its policy of severing relations with countries that officially recognize the genocide; President Abdullah Gul recently welcomed Argentine President Cristina Fernandez to the country, and the Canadian minister of trade will visit Turkey within the next month.

    Armenians in America have lobbied Congress to pass a resolution officially acknowledging the Armenian genocide, a step the United States has refused so far to take out of a desire to maintain good relations with Turkey, a strategic military ally in the Mediterranean. A bill officially recognizing the genocide is bottled up in Congress, where passage is uncertain; if it were to pass, it would likely be vetoed by President Obama for the same reason. These recent moves by Turkey may also change the climate surrounding the measure in Washington.

    Turkey may send minister to Armenian genocide observance
    In Turkish;

    Yahudi açılımından sonra Ermeni açılımı
    DUYGU GÜVENÇ07.02.2011

    Sabah - Yahudi aç

    Tarihi olaylarda psikolojik travmanın kolay atlatılamadığını tespit eden Ankara, Musevilerden sonra Ermeni açılımı yapacak. 24 Nisan'da Ermeni faaliyetlerine aktif katılım sağlanacak

    Türkiye ile Ermenistan arasında normalleşmenin sağlanması için imzalanan protokollerin askıya alınmasının ardından Ankara, sürecin psikolojik engele takıldığı ama eninde sonunda yaşama geçirileceği görüşünde. Tarihi geçmişi olan olaylarda psikolojik travmaların kolay atlatılamadığı tespitini yapan Ankara, bu travmaları aşmak için atılacak adımları masaya yatırdı. Türkiye, tıpkı Musevilere karşı olduğu gibi Ermenilere karşı da açılımlarına devam edecek. Türkiye, yıllar sonra '27 Ocak Uluslararası Yahudi Soykırımı Kurbanlarını Anma Günü' ne temsilci yollamış, Devlet Bakanı Egemen Bağış da Auswitch kampını ziyaret eden ilk hükümet görevlisi olmuştu. Benzer şekilde Ermenilerin de faaliyetlerine aktif katılım için 24 Nisan yaklaşırken talimat verildi. Bu amaçla diaspora ile temasların sıklaştırılması, özellikle Amerika'daki Ermeni lobisi ile temas kurulması, Ermeni diasporasının verdiği davetlere de katılım sağlanması kararı Aralık ayındaki MGK'da yapılan sunumda kararlaştırıldı.

    SOYKIRIM KÜSLÜĞÜ
    Ermeni halkına ulaşmak için ilk olarak diaspora ile diyalog geliştirilecek. Normalleşme süreci ise diasporayı da kapsayacak. Tarihin yükünden kurtulmanın zaman alacağı belirtilen bu süreçte Ankara, 'sebat' göstermekte kararlı. Bu amaçla da atılan adımların arkasında durulacak ve Ermenistan ile imzalanan iki protokole sahip çıkılacak. Ancak Kafkaslarda ilerleme olmadığı müddetçe, bu tıkanıklığın aşılması beklenmiyor. Türkiye, geçtiğimiz yıllarda sözde soykırım tasarılarını kabul eden ülkelere uyguladığı siyasi boykot kararını da askıya aldı. Bu çerçevede Cumhurbaşkanı Abdullah Gül geçtiğimiz günlerde Arjantin Cumhurbaşkanı Cristina Fernandez'ı ağırladı. Kanada Ticaret Bakanı'nın da önümüzdeki günlerde Ankara'ya gelmesi beklenirken, ziyaretlerin sözde soykırımı kabul eden diğer ülkelerden de sürmesi bekleniyor. Nisan ayının yaklaşması ile birlikte ABD Kongresi'nde önümüzdeki günlerde yeniden soykırım tasarısının gündeme gelmesi bekleniyor. Ermeni lobisinin Kongre'de harekete geçmesine kesin gözüyle bakılırken, ABD Başkanı Barack Obama'nın sözde soykırım tasarısının yasalaşmasına izin vermeyeceği de belirtildi. Ankara, Obama yönetiminin ilişkileri temelden sarsacak bir adıma izin vermeyeceği, böylesi bir tasarının da yasalaşmayacağı görüşünde.
    In a bid to dissipate it's dependence of the Jewish lobby at Capital Hill, the Turkish Security Council has authorised the Turkish Government in making direct contact with the Armenian diaspora and also commemorating Armenian Genocide day.

    The proviso is that Turkey will also commemorate the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Turks who perished during the same time.

    It remains to be seen what the Brussel's and US Congress response will be....

  • #2
    I heard about it. I thought it was Armenian propaganda for once (we are not good at it).

    OK, if true what does this have to do with AG?

    The proviso is that Turkey will also commemorate the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Turks who perished during the same time.
    If Turkey is talking about the battle of Sarikamish where the Turkish 3rd Army was decimated under the command of Pasha himself then there were also many Armenian volunteer 4th Battalion casualties in the same battle against Turkey. What War has to do with what Pasha did after this major defeat (which he blamed those Armenians) to the Ottoman Armenians (mostly women and children and elderly) who had no idea what is going on?

    What are you guys up to? :)

    Forget about Genocide, the US will not recognize it and you shouldn't get intimidated by it.
    Wolf Hunter

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Ararat View Post
      I heard about it. I thought it was Armenian propaganda for once (we are not good at it).

      OK, if true what does this have to do with AG?

      If Turkey is talking about the battle of Sarikamish where the Turkish 3rd Army was decimated under the command of Pasha himself then there were also many Armenian volunteer 4th Battalion casualties in the same battle against Turkey. What War has to do with what Pasha did after this major defeat (which he blamed those Armenians) to the Ottoman Armenians (mostly women and children and elderly) who had no idea what is going on?

      Turkey is not refering to any specific incident. Everyone accepts that (even if they classify the events of such period as genocide or not) there were casualties on both sides. A large number of Armenian Ottomans and a large number of ethnically Turkish Ottoman's perished. Some died as a result of the relocations (forced or not) some died because they were murdered by Russian backed Armenian gangs. Hence, Turkey has decided to comemorate all victims of that period.

      What are you guys up to? :)

      We are implementing the "Zero-problems with neighbours" policy in order to reap the strategic and economic benifits.

      Forget about Genocide, the US will not recognize it and you shouldn't get intimidated by it.

      The Turkish establishment believes that there are other threats which are more important and significant than the recognition issue. It believes these threats outweigh recognition of the "Genocide" by world powers.

      For example, Turkey wants to neutralise the Jewish loby's ability to coerce Turkey through the threat of recognising the "genocide" in order to eliminate it's dependence on Israel. It believes that Israel will eventually come around after it realises that it is slowly becoming isolated in a region of adversaries. Turkey believes that the more leverage it gets on Israel the more chances it has of forcing a peaceful solution to the ME problem. Turkey also believes that the ME problem is the cause of all other problems in the region including terrorism.
      ...

      Comment


      • #4
        For the sake of EU & US,

        ...an alternative energy corridor MUST be established

        ...so Armenian-Turkish relations MUST be normalised

        ...so the region MUST be stabilised...

        ANYONE think otherwise...well it is time to wake up...
        Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by denizkuvetleri View Post
          Turkey is not refering to any specific incident. Everyone accepts that (even if they classify the events of such period as genocide or not) there were casualties on both sides. A large number of Armenian Ottomans and a large number of ethnically Turkish Ottoman's perished. Some died as a result of the relocations (forced or not) some died because they were murdered by Russian backed Armenian gangs. Hence, Turkey has decided to comemorate all victims of that period.
          Sorry but utter bull.....you guys need to get your timeline straight. The few Ottoman Armenians fighting and defending few of its people left from the systematic race extermination planned and executed in eight stages by the State happened afterwards, not before.

          Before that the Russian Armenians (that Turkey blames) were providing their duty as Russians and, of course would have been more than happy to help destroy the Ottoman army after Sultan Hamid (bloody Sultan) massacres of Armenians years earlier, twice. They would fight with a determination that could not be found anywhere, according to Russian commanders. Check Hamidian massacres if you think AG is all that happened. There is a trend.

          You filled all Armenian properties with Turks and kurds as soon as you put Armenians on the death marches. Even Germans (elements of what became the Nazi Germany) showed you how to be more efficient in you extermination policies (they were there for the Bagdad Railroad, oh my). You spared the Armenians in Istanbul as to not cause panic with your own people. You know who the Gangs were? Teshkilati Mahsusa made out of Turkish and Kurdish criminals set free to plunder, rape, and kill the Armenians while they were being so called relocated. Combat deaths do not qualify as victims and many Turkish ethnic ottomans died trying to save Armenians by your States hands.

          I think it would be better if you stop right there since nothing will ever change with you guys. Most Turks just cant handle the truth and I don’t like talking about this. What happened has happened but lets not fool ourselves.

          We are implementing the "Zero-problems with neighbours" policy in order to reap the strategic and economic benifits
          Zero problem is a fantasy in any region......never mind you talking about Caucasus region where the whole land is cursed. Turkish hashish is stronger than I thought.

          The Turkish establishment believes that there are other threats which are more important and significant than the recognition issue. It believes these threats outweigh recognition of the "Genocide" by world powers.

          For example, Turkey wants to neutralise the Jewish loby's ability to coerce Turkey through the threat of recognising the "genocide" in order to eliminate it's dependence on Israel. It believes that Israel will eventually come around after it realises that it is slowly becoming isolated in a region of adversaries. Turkey believes that the more leverage it gets on Israel the more chances it has of forcing a peaceful solution to the ME problem. Turkey also believes that the ME problem is the cause of all other problems in the region including terrorism.
          Jewish lobby in US has been your best friend in blocking AG recognition….is this how you repay them? Never mind they have been modernizing your military that Turks beat their chest about. Who was Ataturk really? I must admit though, Turkey pulled a victory out of defeat, never heard anything like that, well done.


          I am with my friend Big K on this one for the reason.
          Wolf Hunter

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Big K View Post
            For the sake of EU & US,

            ...an alternative energy corridor MUST be established
            With regard to energy Turkey does not really need Armenia as it has already bypassed it through the Baku-Tiblisi-Ceyhan pipeline

            ...so Armenian-Turkish relations MUST be normalised
            These are the product of Turkey's shift in foreign policy. Why would the US and EU destroy one of it's major cards against Turkey? (The recognition of the Armenian genocide) They have nothing that Turkey does not have some control over to coerce Turkey anymore.

            ...so the region MUST be stabilised...

            Again the product of Turkey's shift in regional policy. Turkey is slowly creating Pax-Ottomana.

            ANYONE think otherwise...well it is time to wake up...
            For decades Turkey could not trade with it's neigbours. The Gulf wars, Iran issue, Armenian genocide issue, Aeagean issue etc was all to Turkey's detriment. Ankara has now realised that it can compromise on some issues of foreign policy in order to reach it's more important strategic goals such as e.g. assuming the leadership of the region through economic and hidden military might and soft power.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Ararat View Post
              Sorry but utter bull.....you guys need to get your timeline straight. The few Ottoman Armenians fighting and defending few of its people left from the systematic race extermination planned and executed in eight stages by the State happened afterwards, not before.

              Before that the Russian Armenians (that Turkey blames) were providing their duty as Russians and, of course would have been more than happy to help destroy the Ottoman army after Sultan Hamid (bloody Sultan) massacres of Armenians years earlier, twice. They would fight with a determination that could not be found anywhere, according to Russian commanders. Check Hamidian massacres if you think AG is all that happened. There is a trend.

              You filled all Armenian properties with Turks and kurds as soon as you put Armenians on the death marches. Even Germans (elements of what became the Nazi Germany) showed you how to be more efficient in you extermination policies (they were there for the Bagdad Railroad, oh my). You spared the Armenians in Istanbul as to not cause panic with your own people. You know who the Gangs were? Teshkilati Mahsusa made out of Turkish and Kurdish criminals set free to plunder, rape, and kill the Armenians while they were being so called relocated. Combat deaths do not qualify as victims and many Turkish ethnic ottomans died trying to save Armenians by your States hands.

              I think it would be better if you stop right there since nothing will ever change with you guys. Most Turks just cant handle the truth and I don’t like talking about this. What happened has happened but lets not fool ourselves.

              I don't want to go into a whole discourse about the events of such period. We will merely be arguing the same points over and over again. Whats counts is that there were victims on both sides and we should commemorate all victims.

              Zero problem is a fantasy in any region......never mind you talking about Caucasus region where the whole land is cursed. Turkish hashish is stronger than I thought.
              Pax-ottomana is a reality


              Jewish lobby in US has been your best friend in blocking AG recognition….is this how you repay them? Never mind they have been modernizing your military that Turks beat their chest about. Who was Ataturk really? I must admit though, Turkey pulled a victory out of defeat, never heard anything like that, well done.

              Strategy changes very quickly....It's about playing your cards right.

              I am with my friend Big K on this one for the reason.
              ...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by denizkuvetleri View Post
                don't want to go into a whole discourse about the events of such period. We will merely be arguing the same points over and over again. Whats counts is that there were victims on both sides and we should commemorate all victims.
                I agree....just so you know my position I am against pushing for AG recognition in the US congress. It has become nothing but an insult and a political card. Our Diasporan (so called) leaders need to stop pushing for this, remove this playing card which being used against you, and concentrate our limited resources on problems we have in Armenia and Artsakh, not be stuck on this genocide recognition. I am in front of your consulate every freaking year on April 24th and I will continue to do so but like I said, we Armenians are slow learners, we are all experts in politics but we are politically immature. We need to learn from our Jewish friends.

                Pax-ottomana is a reality
                I don't know what that is but to us neo-ottomanism and pan-turkism is the same thing, control of the region.....Armenian "Wedge" will never allow this, at least geograghically. Russia and Iran backs us on that, for now.

                Strategy changes very quickly....It's about playing your cards right.
                Hope you know what you doing.....Erdo is very clever and cunning politican, I must admit.
                Wolf Hunter

                Comment


                • #9
                  barev dzez Ararat


                  Originally posted by Ararat View Post
                  I agree....just so you know my position I am against pushing for AG recognition in the US congress. It has become nothing but an insult and a political card. Our Diasporan (so called) leaders need to stop pushing for this, remove this playing card which being used against you, and concentrate our limited resources on problems we have in Armenia and Artsakh, not be stuck on this genocide recognition. I am in front of your consulate every freaking year on April 24th and I will continue to do so but like I said, we Armenians are slow learners, we are all experts in politics but we are politically immature. We need to learn from our Jewish friends.

                  In my view protesting the modern day Republic of Turkey is wrong. It was not the Grand Turkish National Assembly of the Republic of Turkey which ordered the mass deporations. It was the Imperial Ottoman Government. An entity which no longer exists and whose political structure is extinct. No political leader in Turkey is responsible for the actions leading to the events of such tragic period. At most the present Turks could comemorate all those that perished without differentiation between race and religion. Turkey now commemorates ALL victims. I think it is time we move on and not hold any grudges against each other. There is a famous saying: "The only alternative to co-existence is co-destruction".

                  I don't know what that is but to us neo-ottomanism and pan-turkism is the same thing, control of the region.....Armenian "Wedge" will never allow this, at least geograghically. Russia and Iran backs us on that, for now.

                  Pax Ottomana (literally "the Ottoman Peace") is a term used to describe the economic and social stability attained in the conquered provinces of the Ottoman Empire, which, at the height of the Empire's power during the 16th and 17th centuries, applied to lands in the Balkans, Anatolia, the Middle East, North Africa and the Caucasus.

                  It is preferred in particular by historians and writers who hold a positive view of Ottoman rule to underline the positive impact of Ottoman rule on the conquered regions. They compare it favourably with instability experienced before the Ottoman conquest and with the period after World War I, when only Anatolia and Eastern Thrace remained under Turkish rule.

                  The term is derived from the more common Pax Romana, "the Roman Peace".

                  Pax Ottomana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                  Turkish Foreign Minister Professor Dr. Ahmet Davutoglu is the architect behind Turkey's Pax-ottomana policy.

                  Hope you know what you doing.....Erdo is very clever and cunning politican, I must admit. We needed someone like him for the region ages ago.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Jewish lobby in US has been your best friend in blocking AG recognition….is this how you repay them?

                    Strategy changes very quickly....It's about playing your cards right.
                    this is what is changed i think...this is why Turkey's geopolitic pos. regained its earlier importance me thinks...

                    ...an alternative energy corridor MUST be established
                    With regard to energy Turkey does not really need Armenia as it has already bypassed it through the Baku-Tiblisi-Ceyhan pipeline
                    that pipeline proved to be a strategic weak point by being in danger during the last Russian-Georgian conflict...Russians came 20km near of it...which meant: "my blade is at your throat"

                    lokk at the map, theres no alternative way but an Turko-Armenian way when you consider Russia & Iran as the main enemies...

                    ...Armenian "Wedge" will never allow this, at least geograghically. Russia and Iran backs us on that, for now.
                    so the threat list of Armenia should change to find an alternative corridor...


                    i see your points Denizkuvetleri (wheres the second "v" btw? or is it "küvetleri?" :) ) and i respect&support the main idea but i must insist that without a proper independence including militarily & economically & energywise (which i stated earlier in the "strong man of EU" thread) i dont believe such leadership can be established...


                    as for the thread:

                    no matter what is our point of view, we must commemorate all the victims of that period regardless their race or religion or side.
                    Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Big K View Post
                      this is what is changed i think...this is why Turkey's geopolitic pos. regained its earlier importance me thinks...

                      ...an alternative energy corridor MUST be established


                      that pipeline proved to be a strategic weak point by being in danger during the last Russian-Georgian conflict...Russians came 20km near of it...which meant: "my blade is at your throat"
                      You have no idea how itchy Armenian trigger finger is when it comes to BTC pipeline and major Azeri water tanks. Those will be the first targets if Azerbaijan attacks Artsakh. I personally prefer targeting the three oil platforms in Caspian Sea which would bring Azerbaijan to its knees in no time (BTC will only hurt Turkey a bit, and just financial to Azeri, and may cause Armenia political ramification since the pipeline is owned by Western Banks). However those oil reservoirs are well protected and besides long range missiles (which may not work), SU-25s is all we got that could possibly pull it off, but it would be a tough and daring mission (Azeri AAA, Mig-29s,…) but the payoff would be great. It would go down something like what Iranian Airforce did to Iraqi jets that were moved far away for safety during Iran/Iraq war.

                      so the threat list of Armenia should change to find an alternative corridor...
                      .
                      Turkey has already removed Armenia from their little red book (threat list).

                      Normalizing relations....that could be a possibility as long as Turkey does not include Nagorno Karabagh or any Turkish/Armenia border concessions from Armenia. You saw how it didn't work last time.
                      Also the roads and the railways on Turkish side must be brought up to today’s standards for any trade to be good (small problems).
                      Wolf Hunter

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ararat View Post
                        You have no idea how itchy Armenian trigger finger is when it comes to BTC pipeline and major Azeri water tanks. Those will be the first targets if Azerbaijan attacks Artsakh. I personally prefer targeting the three oil platforms in Caspian Sea which would bring Azerbaijan to its knees in no time (BTC will only hurt Turkey a bit, and just financial to Azeri, and may cause Armenia political ramification since the pipeline is owned by Western Banks). However those oil reservoirs are well protected and besides long range missiles (which may not work), SU-25s is all we got that could possibly pull it off, but it would be a tough and daring mission (Azeri AAA, Mig-29s,…) but the payoff would be great. It would go down something like what Iranian Airforce did to Iraqi jets that were moved far away for safety during Iran/Iraq war.
                        no no i wasnt referring an Armenian-Azeri conflict...i am not interested in chest-thumping or who have bigger guns...

                        as a matter of fact i dont believe that such nations like us, Armenia or Azeriswant/would/dare/permitted (what ever you call) such conflicts.

                        we all are just little pawns in bigger players game...because of our dependencies...

                        BTC pipeline is a tiny alternative to the Russian energy hegemony.



                        Originally posted by Ararat View Post
                        Turkey has already removed Armenia from their little red book (threat list).

                        Normalizing relations....that could be a possibility as long as Turkey does not include Nagorno Karabagh or any Turkish/Armenia border concessions from Armenia. You saw how it didn't work last time.
                        Also the roads and the railways on Turkish side must be brought up to today’s standards for any trade to be good (small problems).
                        normalised relations or "lets dream a bit" better relations between Turkey & Armenia should be our target...
                        Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

                        Comment

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