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UK multi-culturalism does not work

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  • UK multi-culturalism does not work

    Mr Cameron has admitted what has been known here for years , it remains to be seen how the issue will be tackled , there are Muslims worldwide who are good people (and i have many friends amongst them ) however with his statement comes a large task , is it a statement admitting defeat against the terrorists , well good luck Mr Cameron , as we all seek peace .


    David Cameron condemned Britain's long-standing policy of multiculturalism as a failure Saturday, calling for better integration of young Muslims to combat home-grown extremism.

    In a speech to the Munich Security Conference, the Prime Minister signaled a marked change in policy towards Britain's ethnic and religious minorities, saying the "hands-off tolerance" of those who reject Western values has failed.

    He urged a "more active, muscular liberalism" where equal rights, the rule of law, freedom of speech and democracy are actively promoted to create a stronger national identity.

    "If we are to defeat this threat, I believe it's time to turn the page on the failed policies of the past," he told the conference during a panel discussion attended by German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

    His speech echoed controversial remarks made by Merkel last year, when she also called multiculturalism a failure, saying Germany had not devoted enough attention to the integration of immigrants.

    "What I mean to say is that for years, for decades, the approach was that integration was not something that needed to be addressed, that people would live side-by-side and that it would sort itself out," Merkel said in November.

    "This turned out to be false."

    It was Cameron's first major speech on Islamist extremism, an issue of major concern for British governments ever since four home-grown suicide bombers attacked the London transport system in 2005, killing 52 people.

    The prime minister, who took power in May 2010, argued that "under the doctrine of state multiculturalism, we have encouraged different cultures to live separate lives, apart from each other and the mainstream".

    He said this had resulted in a lack of national identity in Britain which had made some young Muslims turn to extremist ideology.

    "Frankly, we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism," Cameron said.

    "A passively tolerant society says to its citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone. It stands neutral between different values.

    "A genuinely liberal country does much more. It believes in certain values and actively promotes them.... It says to its citizens: this is what defines us as a society."

    Cameron clearly distinguished between Islam the religion and the political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same thing".

    But he argued that non-violent organisations which present themselves as a gateway to the Muslim community but are ambiguous on Western values should no longer receive state funding, and should be banned from university campuses.




    Just in



    Thousands of English Defence League (EDL) supporters are descending on the town that spawned the movement for a protest on Saturday.

    The group is gathering in Luton, where counter-demonstrations have been organised by Unite Against Fascism (UAF) and sections of the town's Muslim community.

    A massive police operation has been launched with more than a thousand officers on the streets at a cost of more than £800,000.

    Senior EDL members claim more than 4,000 supporters from across Britain and overseas will converge on Luton for a march and rally.

    The event has been billed with the slogan "Back to Where It All Began" alongside images of EDL members in balaclavas.

    The EDL has been controversial ever since its formation almost two years ago. The street protest movement opposes what it sees as the spread of Sharia law and militant Islam in England. Their regular protests in towns and cities across the country frequently descend into violence as they are met by counter-demonstrations, often organised by Unite Against Fascism (UAF).

    The movement originated from a group known as the United Peoples of Luton. They were formed in response to a Muslim protest at a parade in Luton, in March 2009, for troops from 2nd Battalion The Royal Anglian Regiment returning from Iraq. Islamic activists waved banners with slogans including: "Anglian Soldiers: Butchers of Basra" and "Anglian Soldiers: cowards, killers, extremists."

    Around 150 members of UAF formed a blockade at the exit of Luton train station in a bid to stop EDL supporters entering their designated area ahead of the demonstration.

    They linked arms and chanted "close the station" and "Nazi scum off our streets
    Last edited by tankie; 05 Feb 11,, 13:56.

  • #2
    About time..........finally a PM who has the b*lls to state it publicly,...........now we only have to deal with it.
    sigpicFEAR NAUGHT

    Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by T_igger_cs_30 View Post
      About time..........finally a PM who has the b*lls to state it publicly,...........now we only have to deal with it

      .
      And thats the problem to be solved ,and always has been .But now he has started the ball rolling i wonder how long before it sticks in the mud , there has been on BBC some guy condemning the speech (muslim council ), he qouted it was bad timing when the EDL are protesting in Luton , i never saw this guy condemning muslims when abusing returning Brit Soldiers
      Last edited by tankie; 05 Feb 11,, 16:42.

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      • #4
        I think it will get worse before it gets better. Both sides have an extremist fringe and they may take the front seat.
        There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Vinod2070 View Post
          I think it will get worse before it gets better. Both sides have an extremist fringe and they may take the front seat.
          Yes indeed , but this time its the prime minister who is voicing ref extremism and radicals , and Brit extremists will be clamped down hard on , heard anything from the BNP lately ;)
          Last edited by tankie; 05 Feb 11,, 17:07.

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          • #6
            Pardon my ignorance, but didn't Ms. Thatcher try something similar to this before? Though I'm not an expert in British politics so I can't say for sure.

            And it seems to me a certain Geert Hofstede's works are on the rise as of late.

            Geert Hofstede Cultural Dimensions
            Everybody sing this song, DooDah, DooDah

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            • #7
              Originally posted by tankie View Post
              Yes indeed , but this time its the prime minister who is voicing ref extremism and radicals , and Brit extremists will be clamped down hard on , heard anything from the BNP lately ;)
              I was never a fan of Britain giving so much freedom to these extremists. The way those extremists openly used Britain was shameful and they should have been kicked out much earlier.

              We have had British born terrorists caught in Kashmir. Birtain is a big center for funding and recruitment for terrorist organizations operating from our neighboring country.

              I hope it doesn't become a tool to victimize ordinary peaceloving citizens of any faith. I think it is incumbent on the people migrating to a country to respect the local customs and culture and try to assimilate even as they keep their own culture alive.
              There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t..

              Comment


              • #8
                Can some one tell me what 'active, muscular liberalism' means

                Originally posted by tankie
                "A passively tolerant society says to its citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone. It stands neutral between different values.

                "A genuinely liberal country does much more. It believes in certain values and actively promotes them.... It says to its citizens: this is what defines us as a society."
                I see, so the former does not work any more and what we really need, basically is more govt intervention, is it ?

                Govt saying do this or that, for example.

                Sounds very un-British and more French if you ask me
                Last edited by Double Edge; 05 Feb 11,, 20:38.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                  Can some one tell me what 'active, muscular liberalism' means


                  I see, so the former does not work any more and what we really need, basically is more govt intervention, is it ?

                  Govt saying do this or that, for example.

                  Sounds very un-British and more French if you ask me
                  Actually what is needed is to be totally BRITISH and put the BRITISH first for a change, and stop worrying about others feelings , especially the feelings of those who come to Britiain to get what they cannot get in there homeland.
                  sigpicFEAR NAUGHT

                  Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by T_igger_cs_30 View Post
                    Actually what is needed is to be totally BRITISH and put the BRITISH first for a change, and stop worrying about others feelings , especially the feelings of those who come to Britiain to get what they cannot get in there homeland.
                    How to explain this in another way

                    In England you can be who you want to be, want to follow your roots whatever, go ahead. This other part can co-exist with your adopted nationality without any problems. Same with the US, Australia and even Canada. Got loads of family in these countries and the verdict is the same. The Anglo-Saxon way is better.

                    In France they don't give a crap where you came from, you better integrate or else. Forget your past, your heritage where your parents came from. They're always yammering on about integration & immigration. They've been doing it for decades and guess what they're still going to be doing it a few decades from now as well Initially i thought they were a bit less tolerant but then i realised they view the English language in the same light, a threat to their culture and way of life. The laws stated french music had to have 60% of airtime on the radio, they did not like how these english words were entering into common lexicon and the French Academy had to come out with french words to subsititute them. Similar story in Quebec isn't it.

                    Is this what 'active, muscular liberalism' means, because if it does then its a joke. Reeks of weakness and fear. This is NOT how a people that had the biggest empire ever ought to behave !

                    I've lived in both these countries and can tell you there is a world of difference in how immigrants are treated in England compared to France and the UK is a damn side better !!

                    So the statement multi-culturalism does not work is not true, it has worked, its worked very well wherever its been tried. You don't allow exceptions to define whether something works or not do you. You've got a glitch right now but it will pass. Talk about rolling back several decades of success with countless communities from around the world because just one group has teething problems. Throw out the baby & the whole tub

                    The whole point is these ppl voted with their feet to come & live in these countries. I don't give a crap if they don't support the home team during a sports match. If you are free then so long as ppl follow the law you leave them alone. You trust them and you let them live their lives and you let them choose how to live them. You do that they'll eventually come around to your point of view, if it skipped a generation the next will fall in line. But if you start preaching and forcing them then you'll get the bird. This is common sense.

                    It's easier in the new world than the old, lot less 'culture' to be protected. But the UK has done pretty well in this regard over the years. Funny thing is you get a lot of ppl coming over to visit from there. They want to 'find themselves' Time was you could not wait to get out of India and have a better life abroad but now these same types are coming back on holidays with their foreign passports in seach of meaning and where they came from. Stop them from doing that and you'll end up with a 'lost generation', guaranteed.

                    If Cameron & Merkel make such statements i take them as playing to the gallery, the game is to undercut the far right. Nothing more. And i don't expect things to change much, its just empty talk & rhetoric. The economy's not doing too well, they need a scapegoat.
                    Last edited by Double Edge; 06 Feb 11,, 10:09.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Vinod2070 View Post
                      I was never a fan of Britain giving so much freedom to these extremists. The way those extremists openly used Britain was shameful and they should have been kicked out much earlier.

                      We have had British born terrorists caught in Kashmir. Birtain is a big center for funding and recruitment for terrorist organizations operating from our neighboring country.

                      I hope it doesn't become a tool to victimize ordinary peaceloving citizens of any faith. I think it is incumbent on the people migrating to a country to respect the local customs and culture and try to assimilate even as they keep their own culture alive.

                      Dont we all , and thats the problem Mr Cameron has given himself

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by T_igger_cs_30 View Post
                        Actually what is needed is to be totally BRITISH and put the BRITISH first for a change, and stop worrying about others feelings , especially the feelings of those who come to Britiain to get what they cannot get in there homeland.
                        Yup ,economic migration has to be stopped , not just here , but ohh boy , warra task .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Double Edge View Post
                          How to explain this in another way

                          In England you can be who you want to be, want to follow your roots whatever, go ahead. This other part can co-exist with your adopted nationality without any problems. Same with the US, Australia and even Canada. Got loads of family in these countries and the verdict is the same. The Anglo-Saxon way is better.
                          And the thanks we get in return for this, not being allowed to fly the St Georges flag on St Georges day, our school sysytems being turned completely to NOT UPSET others, and our econonimy in tatters because of the migrant econimy.

                          In France they don't give a crap where you came from, you better integrate or else. Forget your past, your heritage where your parents came from. They're always yammering on about integration & immigration. They've been doing it for decades and guess what they're still going to be doing it a few decades from now as well Initially i thought they were a bit less tolerant but then i realised they view the English language in the same light, a threat to their culture and way of life. The laws stated french music had to have 60% of airtime on the radio, they did not like how these english words were entering into common lexicon and the French Academy had to come out with french words to subsititute them. Similar story in Quebec isn't it.
                          Is it really wrong to put the rights of your own before outsiders who demand to much and have no respect for the culture the want to intergrate into?

                          Is this what 'active, muscular liberalism' means, because if it does then its a joke. Reeks of weakness and fear. This is NOT how a people that had the biggest empire ever ought to behave !
                          And they are not going to. But it is about time that it is pointed out that immigration is not a free ride and the solving of all your ills and problems.

                          I've lived in both these countries and can tell you there is a world of difference in how immigrants are treated in England compared to France and the UK is a damn side better !!
                          Of course it is , and will remain so but lets hope no longer at the expense of British.

                          So the statement multi-culturalism does not work is not true, it has worked, its worked very well wherever its been tried. You don't allow exceptions to define whether something works or not do you. You've got a glitch right now but it will pass. Talk about rolling back several decades of success with countless communities from around the world because just one group has teething problems. Throw out the baby & the whole tub
                          Multi culturism does not work, it breeds political correctness, and is used as a tool for manipulation and greed.

                          The whole point is these ppl voted with their feet to come & live in these countries. I don't give a crap if they don't support the home team during a sports match. If you are free then so long as ppl follow the law you leave them alone. You trust them and you let them live their lives and you let them choose how to live them. You do that they'll eventually come around to your point of view, if it skipped a generation the next will fall in line. But if you start preaching and forcing them then you'll get the bird. This is common sense.
                          Its not about supporting a"home team" its about respecting cultures, history and the fact that you have chosen to live in a new country, AND been accepted, do not try to turn it into the perfect world that someone could not get in there own homeland.

                          It's easier in the new world than the old, lot less 'culture' to be protected. But the UK has done pretty well in this regard over the years. Funny thing is you get a lot of ppl coming over to visit from there. They want to 'find themselves' Time was you could not wait to get out of India and have a better life abroad but now these same types are coming back on holidays with their foreign passports in seach of meaning and where they came from. Stop them from doing that and you'll end up with a 'lost generation', guaranteed.
                          NO one wants to stop them now they can afford to go home and "find themselves".........the lost generations ended up in Britain and other countries.

                          If Cameron & Merkel make such statements i take them as playing to the gallery, the game is to undercut the far right. Nothing more. And i don't expect things to change much, its just empty talk & rhetoric. The economy's not doing too well, they need a scapegoat.
                          Of course someone had to make this comment !

                          I dont not think you are confused, naive maybe, things have to change..........
                          Last edited by T_igger_cs_30; 06 Feb 11,, 14:35.
                          sigpicFEAR NAUGHT

                          Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

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                          • #14
                            Well he seems to be not getting sidetracked from his statement , obviously others will try to distract him , buuuuuuuuuutt lets see .


                            Sky News 2011




                            David Cameron has rejected criticism of his decision to attack multi-culturalism, saying a "whole new way of thinking" is needed.
                            David Cameron Defends Muslim Extremism Speech

                            In a controversial speech on Saturday, the Prime Minister declared multi-culturalism a failure and called for a tougher approach in tackling Islamist extremism.

                            Shadow justice secretary Sadiq Khan responded by accusing Mr Cameron of "writing propaganda for the EDL (English Defence League)".

                            Dr Faisal Hanjra, assistant secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain,described Mr Cameron's speech as "disappointing".

                            Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of Muslim youth group the Ramadhan Foundation, accused Mr Cameron of trying to "score cheap political points" in a way that would "rip communities apart".

                            But Mr Cameron has stood by his words.

                            Speaking in The Sunday Telegraph, he said: "You have to confront the extremism itself. You have to say to the people in Birmingham Central Mosque, or wherever, who are saying 9/11 is a Jewish conspiracy, that that is not an acceptable attitude to have.

                            "We don't tolerate racism in our society carried out by white people, we shouldn't tolerate extremism carried out by other people.

                            "It certainly means changing the practice, changing the groups you fund, the people you engage, the platforms you share with people, the people you let into the country. I think it needs a whole new way of thinking."

                            Mr Cameron's speech has been accused by some of playing into the hands of far-right groups.

                            EDL leader Stephen Lennon reportedly said of Mr Cameron: "He's now saying what we're saying. He knows his base."

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                            • #15
                              Good to see he's sticking firm. Shows he's got a right pair of fuzzies hanging
                              Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                              Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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