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indianguy4u
17 May 05,, 07:05
http://www.sinodefence.com/news/2004/news061104.asp

China Ends Su-27 License

According to the report of the Russian news website mosnews.com on 2 November, China has suspended the production of Su-27SK fighter jets under their Russian license, Russia’s Vremya Novostej newspaper reported on Tuesday, Nov. 2. According to Chinese military officials, these planes no longer satisfy the requirements of the Chinese Air Force.

The license to produce 200 fighter jets was purchased by China in 1996. The conditions of the contract stipulated that the jets would be assembled at Chinese plants using Russian components. The value of the contract amounted to $2.5 billion. However, after assembling 95 jets out of the planned 200, the Chinese side addressed the Sukhoi Construction Bureau with a request to stop deliveries of the assembly kits. The request was made in May, and neither side disclosed the reasons for the contract being suspended.

Vremya Novostej quoted a source in the Russian delegation at Airshow China-2004 that opened on Monday, Nov. 1, as saying the Chinese side had requested the Su-27SK fighter jets be equipped with additional guided anti-ship missiles. However, this model of fighter jets was not designed to attack targets at sea.


China has been building Su-27SK under license since the late 1990s

Representatives of the Sukhoi construction bureau presented the new model of Su-27 fighter jet — Su-27SMK at the airshow. This plane could satisfy all the Chinese requirements, because it is equipped with guided “air-to-sea” missiles. However, it is unclear whether this new modification of Sukhoi jet will be delivered to China in the near future.

Date Last Updated: 6 November 2004

bull
17 May 05,, 07:32
http://www.sinodefence.com/news/2004/news061104.asp

China Ends Su-27 License

According to the report of the Russian news website mosnews.com on 2 November, China has suspended the production of Su-27SK fighter jets under their Russian license, Russia’s Vremya Novostej newspaper reported on Tuesday, Nov. 2. According to Chinese military officials, these planes no longer satisfy the requirements of the Chinese Air Force.

The license to produce 200 fighter jets was purchased by China in 1996. The conditions of the contract stipulated that the jets would be assembled at Chinese plants using Russian components. The value of the contract amounted to $2.5 billion. However, after assembling 95 jets out of the planned 200, the Chinese side addressed the Sukhoi Construction Bureau with a request to stop deliveries of the assembly kits. The request was made in May, and neither side disclosed the reasons for the contract being suspended.

Vremya Novostej quoted a source in the Russian delegation at Airshow China-2004 that opened on Monday, Nov. 1, as saying the Chinese side had requested the Su-27SK fighter jets be equipped with additional guided anti-ship missiles. However, this model of fighter jets was not designed to attack targets at sea.


China has been building Su-27SK under license since the late 1990s

Representatives of the Sukhoi construction bureau presented the new model of Su-27 fighter jet — Su-27SMK at the airshow. This plane could satisfy all the Chinese requirements, because it is equipped with guided “air-to-sea” missiles. However, it is unclear whether this new modification of Sukhoi jet will be delivered to China in the near future.

Date Last Updated: 6 November 2004

Does this signal that they have zeroed in another more effective air to sea platform.

highsea
17 May 05,, 07:37
It's old news. China wants ship-strike capability for their J-11's, so they are trying to renegotiate the license.

indianguy4u
17 May 05,, 07:45
It's old news. China wants ship-strike capability for their J-11's, so they are trying to renegotiate the license.

i know it is old but whats its implications viz indo-china & more imp china-taiwan

hammer
17 May 05,, 12:24
i know it is old but whats its implications viz indo-china & more imp china-taiwan

I think its implications have got to do more with China-Taiwan and the US Navy than Indo-China problems.

indianguy4u
17 May 05,, 15:51
I think its implications have got to do more with China-Taiwan and the US Navy than Indo-China problems.

well all arms china had amassed is not for india i know .
But whats could its implications,b'coz j-10 is of f-16 class while su-30 is in different class .

but this means that euro arms embargo is near to be cancelled,china will go for european AC like EF 2000 , Mirage 2000-5 ,grippen , rafale etc.

highsea
17 May 05,, 19:02
But whats could its implications,b'coz j-10 is of f-16 class while su-30 is in different class .

but this means that euro arms embargo is near to be cancelled,china will go for european AC like EF 2000 , Mirage 2000-5 ,grippen , rafale etc. The Sukhoi contract has no bearing on the J-10. It's a Taiwan-centric decision by the PLAAF- they want better capability to attack USN vessels in the event of a conflict.

China would have difficulty acquiring Gripen or Typhoon, but France would be happy to sell, as always. They have already talked about Mirage 2K5 in large numbers (which would lead one to wonder if the J-10 is all everything it's being claimed to be). Why buy a 50 million dollar AC when you can build one for 10?

Regardless, China is Russia's biggest customer, and with Russian arms exports down, I'm sure China has all the leverage she needs to get her way.

indianguy4u
20 May 05,, 17:27
The Sukhoi contract has no bearing on the J-10. It's a Taiwan-centric decision by the PLAAF- they want better capability to attack USN vessels in the event of a conflict.

China would have difficulty acquiring Gripen or Typhoon, but France would be happy to sell, as always. They have already talked about Mirage 2K5 in large numbers (which would lead one to wonder if the J-10 is all everything it's being claimed to be). Why buy a 50 million dollar AC when you can build one for 10?

Regardless, China is Russia's biggest customer, and with Russian arms exports down, I'm sure China has all the leverage she needs to get her way.

highsea ,
do u really feel that china could bully russia into submission :confused:

do u really rate j-10 to be as good as mirage mk2,rafale etc :rolleyes:

highsea
20 May 05,, 17:54
highsea ,
do u really feel that china could bully russia into submission :confused: I think China has all the financial leverage she needs to convince Russia to amend the contract. China buys more than aircraft from Russia- Sov's, Kilo's, S-300's, satellite tech, etc. When you are the number one customer, you are in a good position to get your way. No doubt the issue is not one of whether or not Russia is willing to offer the upgrades, but how much is China willing to spend.

do u really rate j-10 to be as good as mirage mk2,rafale etc :rolleyes: No, which is why I made the comment. China hasn't made offers on Rafale, she has made offers on Mirage 2000, which is in the same class as the J-10. Now, why would China be looking for 200 Mirages, if the J-10 was just as effective? There are two reasons- first, to put leverage on France with the rest of the EU wrt the arms embargo- second, because the Mirage will do the job better than the J-10 and China can acquire western avionics and engine technology in the process.

indianguy4u
20 May 05,, 18:14
I think China has all the financial leverage she needs to convince Russia to amend the contract. China buys more than aircraft from Russia- Sov's, Kilo's, S-300's, satellite tech, etc. When you are the number one customer, you are in a good position to get your way. No doubt the issue is not one of whether or not Russia is willing to offer the upgrades, but how much is China willing to spend.

ya thats right
but,



No, which is why I made the comment. China hasn't made offers on Rafale, she has made offers on Mirage 2000, which is in the same class as the J-10. Now, why would China be looking for 200 Mirages, if the J-10 was just as effective? There are two reasons- first, to put leverage on France with the rest of the EU wrt the arms embargo- second, because the Mirage will do the job better than the J-10 and China can acquire western avionics and engine technology in the process.

well there r many pak posters which will like to say that j-10 as good as that of mirage 2000 but nothing concrete evidence of such thing is know ( do u?? ). Also if that was the case doesn't it will be good for china to get rafale or ef2000 plane which r better than mirage 2000-5( if j-10 as good as mirage mk2) why 2 planes in similar roles

highsea
20 May 05,, 18:40
well there r many pak posters which will like to say that j-10 as good as that of mirage 2000 but nothing concrete evidence of such thing is know ( do u?? ). Also if that was the case doesn't it will be good for china to get rafale or ef2000 plane which r better than mirage 2000-5( if j-10 as good as mirage mk2) why 2 planes in similar roles A reasonable comparison of Mirage and J-10 relative capabilities cannot be made without more information on J-10, but the obvious conclusion is that the J-10 has some ways to go. This is not to say that the platform doesn't have potential, just that the avionics and radars are not up to western standards.

Rafale and Typhoon have not been offered to China, and probably will not be in any near term. At this point, AMRAAM is the main missile for the Typhoon, and the US would not release it to China. There is significant other US tech in Typhoon also via JV's with BAe and US firms, not to mention the political fallout. China's heavy fighter is the SU-27/J-11 anyway, and China has ongiong next generation projects. I doubt whether China would want to spend the money to induct Rafale in any significant numbers, since she has already invested heavily in the J-11 for the air dominance role. While no doubt she would like to have Rafale tech, much of that can be acquired via Mirage, since it is unlikely that France will offer SPECTRA for export on Rafale.

indianguy4u
20 May 05,, 19:02
Rafale and Typhoon have not been offered to China, and probably will not be in any near term. At this point, AMRAAM is the main missile for the Typhoon, and the US would not release it to China. There is significant other US tech in Typhoon also via JV's with BAe and US firms, not to mention the political fallout. China's heavy fighter is the SU-27/J-11 anyway, and China has ongiong next generation projects. I doubt whether China would want to spend the money to induct Rafale in any significant numbers, since she has already invested heavily in the J-11 for the air dominance role. While no doubt she would like to have Rafale tech, much of that can be acquired via Mirage, since it is unlikely that France will offer SPECTRA for export on Rafale.

well ,
ef2000 may be out of reach as u said , i am under impression that rafale is cent % french programme,so that may be available & french would like to offset some of its R&D cost on the same .

Whats the gr8 thinking of chinese to stop the sukhoi mfg , which u said was mainstay of its AF . Don't u think there is more than whats meets the eyes . Doen't it will jeoperdise there Defence in short to medium term

highsea
20 May 05,, 19:10
France can sell Rafale to whoever wants to buy it. But right now, it's an orphan.

I already commented on the Sukhoi- they want a multi-role version upgrade on the license. China has already reverse engineered the engine, they can build as many J-11's as they want in the current configuration, they just want to improve it.

indianguy4u
20 May 05,, 19:22
France can sell Rafale to whoever wants to buy it. But right now, it's an orphan.

I already commented on the Sukhoi- they want a multi-role version upgrade on the license. China has already reverse engineered the engine, they can build as many J-11's as they want in the current configuration, they just want to improve it.

I thought that j-11 is nothing but su-27 under licence ie chinese designation . Is really j-11 different i mean no relation to su-27 licence production

highsea
20 May 05,, 19:41
J-11 is the licensed version of the SU-27, yes. China is not exactly known for following license agreements to the letter... ;)

indianguy4u
21 May 05,, 10:38
J-11 is the licensed version of the SU-27, yes. China is not exactly known for following license agreements to the letter... ;)

Then how they are twisting our arms on IPR etc while turning blind eye to chinese copy cat products & reverse engineering stuffs . GOI should tell russians on that front