Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The "Peace Dividend"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The "Peace Dividend"

    The world celebrated in joy after the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. The Cold War was over. The imminent threat of a full scale nuclear war was no more. As usual, the socialists around the world asked their government to cut back on military spending to pay for more welfare, citing the "peace dividend."

    Here's my question: why is it that when there's peace, we cut back on military, but when the crime rate drops, we don't cut back on the police?
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  • #2
    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
    The world celebrated in joy after the Soviet Union collapsed in 1991. The Cold War was over. The imminent threat of a full scale nuclear war was no more. As usual, the socialists around the world asked their government to cut back on military spending to pay for more welfare, citing the "peace dividend."

    Here's my question: why is it that when there's peace, we cut back on military, but when the crime rate drops, we don't cut back on the police?
    Because the war for power over the people is never over.

    Comment


    • #3
      Where did "socialist " benefits increase? In my country which since this is the American forum I assume you refer to we cut back on welfare and saw no new socialist benefits till the Republican unfunded drug benefot unless you include the redistributive tax cuts that transfewrred the social security surplus to the wealthy.
      Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
      ~Ronald Reagan

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
        Where did "socialist " benefits increase? In my country which since this is the American forum I assume you refer to we cut back on welfare and saw no new socialist benefits till the Republican unfunded drug benefot unless you include the redistributive tax cuts that transfewrred the social security surplus to the wealthy.
        Had nothing to do with his question.

        We stil have so many cops, prison guards and federal agents becuase the war on liberty is not over. If we decrimminalized drugs, or at least pot, and redirected just have the savings into treatment how much money would be left over? At the federal level only 16% of drug war monies are devoted to treatment and education.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
          Where did "socialist " benefits increase? In my country which since this is the American forum I assume you refer to we cut back on welfare and saw no new socialist benefits till the Republican unfunded drug benefot unless you include the redistributive tax cuts that transfewrred the social security surplus to the wealthy.
          What the bleep are you talking about?

          -dale

          Comment


          • #6
            Because we create an internal threat and declare war on it.

            Comment


            • #7
              dale,

              What the bleep are you talking about?

              -dale
              he's questioning the assertion that we've seen a relative increase in more welfare as a result of cold war cutbacks. which isn't the main focus of gunnut's question, but there you have it.
              There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by zraver View Post
                We stil have so many cops, prison guards and federal agents becuase the war on liberty is not over. If we decrimminalized drugs, or at least pot, and redirected just have the savings into treatment how much money would be left over? At the federal level only 16% of drug war monies are devoted to treatment and education.
                I believe crime is still a serious problem after the cold war, it is a different war.

                I would favor stopping the war on pot, regulating and taxing it for people over 21. It is more available to kids than alcohol is now, as an unregulated illegal substance. It finances crime, and there are plenty of ways to test for it. It was legal before prohibition and was not a big problem then.

                I don't favor legalization of other drugs, like cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine and other concentrated pharmaceutical drugs. IMO these are too dangerous - they kill people directly, and they were made illegal because of real and terrible problems with them, not by such dubious events as campaigns to attack minorities and promote alternative fibers.
                sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
                  I believe crime is still a serious problem after the cold war, it is a different war.

                  I would favor stopping the war on pot, regulating and taxing it for people over 21. It is more available to kids than alcohol is now, as an unregulated illegal substance. It finances crime, and there are plenty of ways to test for it. It was legal before prohibition and was not a big problem then.

                  I don't favor legalization of other drugs, like cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine and other concentrated pharmaceutical drugs. IMO these are too dangerous - they kill people directly, and they were made illegal because of real and terrible problems with them, not by such dubious events as campaigns to attack minorities and promote alternative fibers.
                  Agreed, pot is about as far as it should go. Legalization is fine based a libertarian justification but because it has an impact on the greater society, it can't regarded as purely a personal choice. But I would support more open minded programs for controlling and minimizing the impact addiction has on a community. Things like legal shooting allies and needle exchange though ugly are much better than the alternative.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                    Here's my question: why is it that when there's peace, we cut back on military, but when the crime rate drops, we don't cut back on the police?
                    Isn't Military spending based largely on GDP.

                    Shouldn't Law enforcement also be based on GDP?

                    The Population always goes up. I don't know about you, but where Im from the police force has become far more centralised. You live in a town of 2000 people, you call the police, you could be waiting for at least an hour before the first patrol arrives from Central Ville.

                    Crime rates are fluid. They move to areas where crime is easily propogated. In 1836, South Australia didn't have Police, because it didn't have convicts and was supposed to be open to good civic values. At the time it did not seem like a bad idea, It wasn't all that long ago that London didn't have a Police force) That was okay, until convicts released in other states realised South Australia was a fantastic place in which to do crime.

                    I Don't necessarily think the crime rate drops, it just moves on in other guises.
                    Ego Numquam

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CardSharp View Post
                      Agreed, pot is about as far as it should go. Legalization is fine based a libertarian justification but because it has an impact on the greater society, it can't regarded as purely a personal choice. But I would support more open minded programs for controlling and minimizing the impact addiction has on a community. Things like legal shooting allies and needle exchange though ugly are much better than the alternative.
                      Hello CardSharp, Welcome to WAB, please go to the Member Introductions forum and start a thread to introduce yourself, we'd like to welcome you formally here, it is our traditional way of doing things. Good posts so far, many of the long standing members (and newer members as well) will notice your introduction and help you get off to a good start. Some of us have a "unique" sense of humor, so please don't take offense.
                      Last edited by USSWisconsin; 04 Nov 10,, 03:36.
                      sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                      If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
                        Hello CardSharp, Welcome to WAB, please go to the Member Introductions forum and start a thread to introduce yourself, we'd like to welcome you formally here, it is our traditional way of doing things. Good posts so far, many of the long standing members (and newer members as well) will notice your introduction and help you get off to a good start. Some of us have a "unique" sense of humor, so please don't take offense.
                        Hi and thanks for the welcome and I did write an introduction thread when I first joined a or two month back. Just haven't been active for a while.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by USSWisconsin View Post
                          I believe crime is still a serious problem after the cold war, it is a different war.

                          I would favor stopping the war on pot, regulating and taxing it for people over 21. It is more available to kids than alcohol is now, as an unregulated illegal substance. It finances crime, and there are plenty of ways to test for it. It was legal before prohibition and was not a big problem then.

                          I don't favor legalization of other drugs, like cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine and other concentrated pharmaceutical drugs. IMO these are too dangerous - they kill people directly, and they were made illegal because of real and terrible problems with them, not by such dubious events as campaigns to attack minorities and promote alternative fibers.
                          if not legalization, then decrimminalization with penalties redirected to medical treatment of the addiction disease. Keeping hard drugs illegal won't work any better next year than it does today. The biggest problem is redirected pharmies, not cartel coke. We don;t need swat teams for that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CardSharp View Post
                            Hi and thanks for the welcome and I did write an introduction thread when I first joined a or two month back. Just haven't been active for a while.
                            opps, sorry about that, my mistake:blush::wakeup:
                            Last edited by USSWisconsin; 05 Nov 10,, 00:04.
                            sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                            If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by zraver View Post
                              if not legalization, then decrimminalization with penalties redirected to medical treatment of the addiction disease. Keeping hard drugs illegal won't work any better next year than it does today. The biggest problem is redirected pharmies, not cartel coke. We don;t need swat teams for that.
                              I agree, treatment and hospitalization when needed would be the best investment inthe problem, criminal proceedings are not a viable solution
                              sigpic"If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
                              If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X