PDA

View Full Version : Nagasaki Bomb, threat to USSR?



Ziska
05 May 05,, 08:04
There is a theory going about that the second bomb was more of a warning to the USSR back off, rather than to held the japs decide to surrender. What do you think?

Lunatock
05 May 05,, 17:12
Well the U.S. was a little short on time, what with Soviet Troops advancing towards Japan from the north, and overlookng the two nukes that were used, it was good there wasn't a repeat of Berlin and Prague. i.e. Ike handing both cities and the surrounding land to Stalin.

TopHatter
05 May 05,, 17:31
Good question. At most, I think it served a dual purpose. The main reason for using it was to reinforce to the Japanese diehards that surrender was the only option. It also provided more weight to the Japanese peace faction's efforts.

As far as a warning/threat to the Soviets...it's possible that was a nice fringe benefit. However, I think the Hiroshima bomb made an elequant case all on it's own.
Or I could just be talking out of my ass as usual :redface:

Bill
05 May 05,, 20:37
The second nuke attack had as much to do with wanting to study the effects on a major population as any other factor IMO.

Just my opinion.

Major Dad
06 May 05,, 05:20
I dunno. The fact remains that the Japanese didn't accept the surrender terms until after Nagasaki.

Ziska
09 May 05,, 04:13
eight days after nagasaki, no less.

Apparently some were convinced Hiroshima was a natural disater, some sort of earthquake, and refused to believe the Americans could do it again.

Imagine if the Allies did have to invade Japan, and the USSR ended up with say, the northern half?

TopHatter
09 May 05,, 04:22
The second nuke attack had as much to do with wanting to study the effects on a major population as any other factor IMO.

Just my opinion.

Sounds feasible.
If true, it's ironic, given how the topography of Nagasaki and a few other factors attenuated some of the blast effects.

In that same vein, I think we need to remember that nuclear weapons were not viewed as the doomsday weapons that they are today.
It was just another "wonder-weapon" in a war full of them (albeit the "king" of said wonder-weapons).
Also, the Japanese were not viewed with a shred of sympathy or even viewed as quite human at all by some, especially after the kamikaze.

Major Dad
09 May 05,, 05:22
Sounds feasible.
If true, it's ironic, given how the topography of Nagasaki and a few other factors attenuated some of the blast effects.

In that same vein, I think we need to remember that nuclear weapons were not viewed as the doomsday weapons that they are today.
It was just another "wonder-weapon" in a war full of them (albeit the "king" of said wonder-weapons).
Also, the Japanese were not viewed with a shred of sympathy or even viewed as quite human at all by some, especially after the kamikaze.

That's because Nagasaki was not the briefed target, I think Edo was. But the crew had strict orders not to bomb unless they could visually ID the city, and Edo had like 8/10's cloud cover, so they diverted to their secondary target.

TopHatter
09 May 05,, 05:34
That's because Nagasaki was not the briefed target, I think Edo was. But the crew had strict orders not to bomb unless they could visually ID the city, and Edo had like 8/10's cloud cover, so they diverted to their secondary target.

Right! I remember that now. Although it was Kokura that was the primary target. (I had to look it up :redface: )
I went to the trusty Wikipedia for some info on the Nagasaki bombing, here are a few quotes

Kokura was the primary target of the nuclear weapon "Fat Man" on August 9, 1945, but since the city had been obscured by clouds and Major Charles Sweeney of the Bockscar had orders to drop the bomb visually, they moved on to Nagasaki, the secondary target, where they dropped their lethal weapon.
Since their fuel was getting low and Sweeney didn't want to dump the bomb in the East China Sea, he decided to make a radar bombing run. However, enough of an opening came in the cloud cover to allow the bombardier to confirm Nagasaki, and the bomb was dropped with ground zero being about 3/4 mile from the planned target. This resulted in lower overall casualties than would have been otherwise, as most of the blast was confined in the Urakami valley.
Consequently, the expression Kokura's luck became common in Japan for escaping a horrible situation without being aware of it.


...at 11:00, the observation B-29 (The Great Artiste flown by Capt. Frederick C. Bock) dropped instruments attached to three parachutes. These instruments also contained messages to Prof. Ryukochi Sagane, a nuclear physicist who studied with three of the scientists responsible for the atomic bomb at the University of California, urging him to tell the public about the danger involved with these weapons of mass destruction. The letter was not found until after the end of World War II.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#The_bomb ing_2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokura

Bill
09 May 05,, 07:58
"That's because Nagasaki was not the briefed target, I think Edo was. But the crew had strict orders not to bomb unless they could visually ID the city, and Edo had like 8/10's cloud cover, so they diverted to their secondary target."

It didn't help that the bomb missed it's intended aimpoint by 3kms either, i'm sure...

TopHatter
11 May 05,, 02:52
It didn't help that the bomb missed it's intended aimpoint by 3kms either, i'm sure...

Monday morning bombardier :rolleyes:

Bill
11 May 05,, 05:06
Lol.

xerxes
26 Jan 07,, 01:49
"That's because Nagasaki was not the briefed target, I think Edo was. But the crew had strict orders not to bomb unless they could visually ID the city, and Edo had like 8/10's cloud cover, so they diverted to their secondary target."

It didn't help that the bomb missed it's intended aimpoint by 3kms either, i'm sure...

is this correct ... Edo is the older name for Tokyo. The Edo castle stands in the middle of Tokyo today and is the emperor's palace.

I doubt that the second bomb was meant for Edo, ... if that was the case who was suppose to surrender?