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View Full Version : Sorry, Guys, This Is Taking It A Little Too Far...



bigross86
27 Jul 10,, 21:10
Florida church to hold ‘Burn a Koran Day’ on 9/11 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100726/od_yblog_upshot/florida-church-to-hold-burn-a-koran-day-on-911;_ylt=AqlWwyCJeOwbX9ip62Fernvk7r5_;_ylu=X3oDMTF ldDkzdnVuBHBvcwM2BHNlYwN5bl9wcm9tb3NfYmxvZ19odG1sB HNsawNmbG9yaWRhY2h1cmM-)


Yes, it appears to have come to this: A religious institution protesting the allegedly retrograde outlook of a rival faith has adopted the medieval practice of book-burning — which has also been revived among Iran's militant Islamic mullahs.

The Dove World Outreach Center, based in Gainesville, Fla. — led by Terry Jones, author of the book "Islam Is of the Devil" — is planning to mark the upcoming anniversary of the 9/11 terror attacks by staging a Koran burning. Church leaders are calling it the "International Burn a Koran Day" — a curious approach to promoting the idea of world outreach.

Maggie Hyde of the Religion News Service reported that the self-described "New Testament, Charismatic, Non-Denominational Church" has taken to Facebook to spread the word of its anti-Islam protest. According to Hyde, Jones and his colleagues drew inspiration for the event from the Facebook page encouraging people to draw pictures of Mohammed. Jones said that supporters of the idea have already started mailing in copies of the Koran for the church to burn.

The church is also crusading against Gainesville's openly gay mayor. It plans to hold a "No Homo Mayor" protest outside Gainesville City Hall on Aug. 2.

Muslims are sure to protest the mass burning, which comes on the heels of a recent wave of anti-mosque protests in the United States. But if the militant Christians staging the event take the time to inspect the contents of the Koran before consigning the book to the flames, they might be in for a bit of a shock:The Koran actually mentions Jesus 25 times, recognizing him as a prophet born to a virgin mother, and a righteous messenger of God.

Facebook - Internation Burn A Koran Day (http://www.facebook.com/pages/International-Burn-A-Koran-Day/134718123226530?ref=search)

gunnut
27 Jul 10,, 21:14
It's a dumb thing to do, but it's not illegal. They are protected by the 1st Amendment, much like the right of anyone to burn bibles in this country.

highsea
27 Jul 10,, 21:22
^^^ Or US flags, or anything else.

Best way to deal with these nutcases is to ignore them, give them zero publicity.

Anyway, I wonder if the ACLU will step up and defend them? :rolleyes:

bigross86
27 Jul 10,, 21:37
I'm not saying for a second that they're not within their rights to burn the Koran, and I know that it's well within every possible interpretation of that law.

I just think that it's an incredibly stupid idea, one that will do more harm than good when it comes to promoting some sort of dialogue between religions and communities. When it comes to discussion between different political factions, this can only inflame the left wing and is a black eye for the Conservatives.

True, it's only one group, but that's how it starts. I don't see Nazism becoming a serious problem in the US anytime soon (thankfully) but it was Heinrich Heine who said “Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings.” Is this the example we want shown?

gunnut
27 Jul 10,, 21:49
I'm not saying for a second that they're not within their rights to burn the Koran, and I know that it's well within every possible interpretation of that law.

I just think that it's an incredibly stupid idea, one that will do more harm than good when it comes to promoting some sort of dialogue between religions and communities. When it comes to discussion between different political factions, this can only inflame the left wing and is a black eye for the Conservatives.

True, it's only one group, but that's how it starts. I don't see Nazism becoming a serious problem in the US anytime soon (thankfully) but it was Heinrich Heine who said “Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings.” Is this the example we want shown?

It is definitely a very stupid thing to do. And I agree with you that these people give the west a bad name. However I think it will be worse if we make laws against burning books. That starts censorship, the official government thought control process.

The difference between us and the Nazis is that we burn all kinds of books...not just the stuff we don't like...:P

Xiaohaha
27 Jul 10,, 21:55
This is akin to the spaghetti monster calling the tooth fairy a fake.

omon
27 Jul 10,, 22:00
I just think that it's an incredibly stupid idea, one that will do more harm than good when it comes to promoting some sort of dialogue between religions and communities.



a what???

out of everyone here, due to your location and job, i would think you see things clearer than anyone, what dialogue, about what??
no matter how much you talk, nothing will change, that religion is at war with all other religions, no matter what they say will change the way they are now, or raise their children, they will always want infidels dead, and killing them is honor.
as for stupid thing, i don't think it will make any difference, they always find new things to bitch about, a cartoon, or new laws that bans their face masks..or some other crap.
at least this way, they will see the world getting tired, of this b.s.
hey let them believe it is their bodies that will burn later, the world has been a big giant ***** regarding this subject. at least someone has balls.

whoever believes this issue will be solved one day peacefully, lol, they were born with a huge illusion gene.

gunnut
27 Jul 10,, 22:02
This is akin to the spaghetti monster calling the tooth fairy a fake.

The tooth fairy is REAL!!!

There are movies about the tooth fairy. How many about the flying spaghetti monster? :mad:

dalem
27 Jul 10,, 22:15
The tooth fairy is REAL!!!

There are movies about the tooth fairy. How many about the flying spaghetti monster? :mad:

Well, Al Gore did that corker about the polar bears and ice caps.

-dale

bigross86
27 Jul 10,, 22:19
I just think that it's an incredibly stupid idea, one that will do more harm than good when it comes to promoting some sort of dialogue between religions and communities.


out of everyone here, due to your location and job, i would think you see things clearer than anyone, what dialogue, about what??

It's because of where I live and what I did that I can see so clearly. Yes, I've been pelted with stones by mobs of angry teenagers, and I've been shot at and had bullets and ATGM's flying over my head, also by mobs of angry teenagers, maybe a bit older.

But I've also met with, and spoken with many, many people that want nothing but peace, and couldn't care for either Hamas, Fatah or Hezbollah, they just want the fighting to end.

You can call me an optimist, call me foolish, naive, or whatever, the fact of the matter is, that as an agnostic/atheist (it fluctuates), all religions are all the same. The fact that every single Rabbi/Cardinal/Imam just decides to say whatever they want and tailor their religion to whatever they think is the most right is just proof.

I see people, not Muslims and Jews, I see people that want an end to the fighting.

Unfortunately, you are right that at the moment, Muslims seem to find things to get upset about even without a church group helping them. But that doesn't make it alright.

Wasn't it Jesus who said something about turning the other cheek? I'm not saying that one needs to give up and walk meekly towards whatever fate someone else has decided for you. We did that once and it will never, ever, ever happen again. But at the same token, you've got to learn to pick your battles, wait for something that's worth fighting.

At the moment, taking on all of Islam, as a whole, is not a fight you wanna be fighting. Nothing good will come of that

highsea
27 Jul 10,, 22:26
Ben, these people are doing this because they know it will incite muslims. They are after a violent reaction, so they can say "See? We told you so".

They aren't stupid, they're hatemongers. You can't conflate them with liberals or conservatives, they are not representative of either.

Mainstream christians will denounce them, but there will be a certain population of muslims that fall for the trick and react with violence.

Not much you can do about it, the less publicity they get the better.

omon
27 Jul 10,, 22:43
Wasn't it Jesus who said something about turning the other cheek?



well, it is fine when someone slaps you on the cheek, but not when they want to chop your head off.

BenRoethig
28 Jul 10,, 01:40
They're evangelicals. Its what they do.

JAD_333
28 Jul 10,, 03:14
They're evangelicals. Its what they do.

Not true. They're nothing. They call themselves Christians. What does that mean? Al Quaida members calls themselves Muslims.

Let these fanatics exercise their 1st Amusement rights and let us get a good laugh out of it. We give it life when we get all bent out of shape over it.

We owe it to our Muslim friends to show them we have no regard for intolerance. And also to show them that we tolerate it not because we agree with it, but because not to do so would make us equally as intolerant.

Big K
28 Jul 10,, 09:42
those type of guys are always the same, no matter which religion their religion is.

omon
28 Jul 10,, 10:46
We owe it to our Muslim friends to show them we have no regard for intolerance. And also to show them that we tolerate it not because we agree with it, but because not to do so would make us equally as intolerant.

we owe them??????
it is their brothers blow up car, fly plains into buildings, and chop heads off live ppl, and take pride in killing non combatants, they do it in the name of their religion, that is those that we call radical, there are those that we call, peaceful, they move to civilised countries, ruin neighborhoods, (visit Europe, you'll see what i mean), disregard local laws, and what is worst, they are doing everything to change local laws, to fit THEIR needs (have not seen any attempts by Russian, or polish, immigrants to do anything remotely similar),
there is a good saying you give him a finger, they take the whole arm, our "tolerance" encourages them, if i was them, i wouldn't see it as tolerance, but weakness, to be exploited.
if anyone owes anything it is them owe us.

Bigfella
28 Jul 10,, 10:51
Not true. They're nothing. They call themselves Christians. What does that mean? Al Quaida members calls themselves Muslims.

Let these fanatics exercise their 1st Amusement rights and let us get a good laugh out of it. We give it life when we get all bent out of shape over it.

We owe it to our Muslim friends to show them we have no regard for intolerance. And also to show them that we tolerate it not because we agree with it, but because not to do so would make us equally as intolerant.


Agreed.

Bigfella
28 Jul 10,, 10:54
those type of guys are always the same, no matter which religion their religion is.


Very true my friend.

Bigfella
28 Jul 10,, 11:07
a what???

out of everyone here, due to your location and job, i would think you see things clearer than anyone, what dialogue, about what??
no matter how much you talk, nothing will change, that religion is at war with all other religions, no matter what they say will change the way they are now, or raise their children, they will always want infidels dead, and killing them is honor.
as for stupid thing, i don't think it will make any difference, they always find new things to bitch about, a cartoon, or new laws that bans their face masks..or some other crap.
at least this way, they will see the world getting tired, of this b.s.
hey let them believe it is their bodies that will burn later, the world has been a big giant ***** regarding this subject. at least someone has balls.

whoever believes this issue will be solved one day peacefully, lol, they were born with a huge illusion gene.

Omon,

Has it occoured to you that BR IS seeing things clearly on this issue & that his experiences might actually reinforce the need for dialogue (not putting words in your mouth Ben, if the inference is incorrect by all means tell me :) ).

Highsea commented that the point of the Koran burning was to provoke a reaction from Muslims - which I believe to be correct. Osama Bin Laden made it clear that one of his motivations for 9/11 was to provoke a reaction in the West - to provoke a war with Islam that would push people towards his extreme ideas (a tacit acceptance that he can't convert 'em under normal circumstances). He wanted Muslims & non-Muslims to believe that their religions/cultures are implaccably opposed & unable to reconcile. It continues to fascinate me just how many Americans appear to have bought into his BS.

bigross86
28 Jul 10,, 11:19
Omon,

Has it occoured to you that BR IS seeing things clearly on this issue & that his experiences might actually reinforce the need for dialogue (not putting words in your mouth Ben, if the inference is incorrect by all means tell me :) ).


You're completely right, Bigfella. I said the same thing in my previous post in this thread

omon
28 Jul 10,, 14:13
Omon,

Has it occurred to you that BR IS seeing things clearly on this issue & that his experiences might actually reinforce the need for dialogue (.

has it ever occurred to you, that there were numerous attempts for dialogue???? and all failed.
but sure let make another attempt, give them a chance to screw you over again, actually you are screwing over yourself with every attempt, why is it us that have to be tolerant, and reach out??

tell me why it is 99% Muslims that are blow up buildings, cars, ...ect. and why homemade rockets still shot at Israel, and suicide bombers still blow up night clubs, hotels, and markets, what dialogue you have in mind, that will stop all of it????? tell me i'd like to know, hell, entire world would like to know.

Kansas Bear
22 Aug 10,, 00:14
They should have raided local libraries and burned copies of Marx's books and then smoked the ashes in opium pipes. :biggrin:


Yeah, probably not enough irony. :eek:

YellowFever
22 Aug 10,, 05:35
My first thought was to say to just ignore these idiots but at the same time, I'm wondering how we can tell the peace loving Muslims to condemn violence perpetrated in the name of Islam by wackjobs from thier religion if we won't do the same.

I'm not equating the burning of a book to sawing people's head off or crashing planes through buildings but one of the West's main complaints of Muslims is that they do not do enough to condemn the idiotics acts committed within their religion.

Best case scenario is that more Christians show up to protests this act than the "christians" actually doing the book burning.